IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 October 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:31 | <vagrantc> work_alkisg: for what it's worth, i ended up uploading 0.5.8-1 as-is.
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| 00:31 | seems to be working fine...
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| 00:47 | appears to have been successfully built: https://buildd.debian.org/status/fetch.php?pkg=epoptes&arch=all&ver=0.5.8-1&stamp=1444265026
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| 17:39 | <vagrantc> alkisg: after more testing, epoptes seemed to be working fine so i just uploaded to Debian
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| 17:40 | alkisg: updated my repository with newish versions of ltsp, ldm and ltspfs ... although already made some commits for ltsp since.
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| 17:40 | (ltspfs just has some minor packaging updates)
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| 17:45 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I too sent epoptes to the epoptes stable ppa, and epoptes, ltsp, ldm and sch-scripts to the greek schools ppa
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| 17:45 | It was release day today :)
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> still haven't uploaded most stuff to debian
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| 17:47 | but i should just get ltspfs and maybe ldm out of the way.
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| 17:47 | <alkisg> I think if you upload ldm soon, stgraber might be able to release it to wily, otherwise wily thin clients won't be able to login due to xorg defaulting to -nolisten anymore
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| 17:47 | Only fat clients will be able to login
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| 17:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: what were the version requirements on that?
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| 17:48 | <alkisg> xorg >= 1.16 needs ldm r1581
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> um, jessie has 1.16.4, and works fine without it
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> This is the xorg commit: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=cc59be38b7eff52a1d003b390f2994c73ee0b3e9
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| 17:49 | Maybe they have a local patch to undo it?
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| 17:50 | See also comments #2, 3 4 in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1449282
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| 17:50 | " That change in Xorg is in 1.16.0 which was first released into Ubuntu 14.10. "
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| 17:52 | It took me many hours of troubleshooting 15.10 to fix that, so I'm certain that it affects it
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| 17:52 | vagrantc: maybe you're using LDM_DIRECTX=false?
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| 17:53 | ssh xorg forwarding isn't affecteed
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| 17:53 | *affected
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| 18:03 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i always test with both LDM_DIRECTX=true/false
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| 18:04 | * alkisg shrugs | |
| 18:04 | <vagrantc> fires up a jessie VM to test
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| 18:16 | alkisg: ok, just tested, works fine on jessie with either setting.
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| 18:16 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ...you tested without r1581, right?
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| 18:16 | I don't know... what about stretch?
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> i'm testing whatever was included in jessie when it released
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| 18:17 | alkisg: i also mostly use git, so i have no idea what the bzr revisions are :)
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| 18:17 | <alkisg> I'll install a jessie VM when I have some free time
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| 18:18 | When you push an ltsp commit, you're using git?
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> Heh, fun
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> git-remote-bzr, FTW.
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| 18:19 | ok, checked my bzr branch, and definitely not using that with jessie, since i built the image long before it was committed
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> We could `apt-get source xserver-xorg-core` and see if the git commit is included or not...
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| 18:19 | Or if it has a local patch to undo it
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| 18:20 | But anyway if it works, np
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> i'll also try to verify on stretch
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| 18:20 | with xserver-xorg-core 1.17
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| 18:21 | if it's only necessary on ubuntu for some reason... hrm.
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> I don't see why an upstream commit would only make it to ubuntu
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| 18:22 | * vagrantc digs into sources | |
| 18:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc: do you know of any quick way to e.g. `apt-get install --reinstall package` in order to get the upstream version of a conffile, e.g. /etc/default/package?
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| 18:25 | (that was modified locally but we no longer want the local changes)
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> meh. the git tag for the version in jessie doesn't appear to be in the repository...
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| 18:26 | alkisg: apt-get --purge remove package && apt-get install package
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| 18:26 | maybe: apt-get --purge --reinstall install package
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> Eh, that's too intrusive, my package does some serious uninstalling in --purge :D
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| 18:27 | Thanks though :)
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> hrm. alioth's git web interface seems to have issues
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| 18:27 | --purge is the only way to reliably get the defaults, as on anyhting else it's supposed to respect local changes
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| 18:32 | * alkisg checks rm conffile && dpkg --force-confmiss... | |
| 18:32 | <vagrantc> wow. haven't had this happen for a long time. can't figure out which git repository the debian package of xserver-xorg-core comes from...
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> Got it, apt-get -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confmiss" install --reinstall sch-scripts
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| 18:34 | (with an rm to the files we want before that)
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> hah. the Vcs-Git URL for xserver-xorg points to the wrong repository
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> vagrantc: stretch also seems to work with ldm_directx=true for you?
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| 18:39 | I can check `apt-get source` in stretch...
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| 18:39 | <vagrantc> alkisg: haven't tested yet.
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> ok
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| 18:39 | * vagrantc got lost in the maze of git packaging for xorg | |
| 18:40 | <alkisg> A simple way to test is to run plain xorg, xinit, whatever, and check the 6000 port if it's open or not
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| 18:40 | No ltsp code necessary for that part
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| 18:43 | vagrantc: `xinit` in stretch tells me it's not listening to :6000
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| 18:43 | It should have the issue
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| 18:44 | vagrantc: while `xinit -- -listen tcp` does listen on that port
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| 18:46 | <lbssousa> vagrantc: will you upload newer epoptes releases to jessie-backports?
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| 18:50 | <alkisg> vagrantc: jessie live, restart Xorg with plain xinit, it's listening on 6000, verifying what you said
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| 18:50 | vagrantc: so obviously the upstream git commit got in debian after jessie
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| 18:51 | stretch => affected, jessie => no
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| 18:51 | Whoops, houston we have a problem
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| 18:51 | We need to update the ltsp code to not use -nolisten tcp in jessie
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| 18:51 | So that backports work ok
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| 18:52 | <lbssousa> alkisg, vagrantc: about Xorg commit cc59be, it was first introduced in upstream release 1.17 afaik
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> So Ancell's comment is wrong? He says 1.16, Ubuntu 14.10
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| 18:52 | * alkisg will check with 14.10 | |
| 18:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but it actually works
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what?
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| 18:54 | <lbssousa> Launchpad's bug mention Ubuntu 15.04, which ships with Xorg 1.17.1
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: are you saying LDM_DIRECTX is silently not working?
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| 18:54 | alkisg: the DISPLAY is set correctly
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> My checks so far say: jessie works with stock ltsp, it listens in tcp by default. It will break with ldm backport because of wrong parameter -listen tcp
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| 18:55 | LDM_DIRECTX=true will only work in stretch with the latest ldm revision
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| 18:55 | So what we need now is to change the version check, from 1.16 to something newer
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> It may be 1.17, or it may need 1.16.5... I'll check utopic
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| 18:56 | Well, utopic is already not supported anymore we can just put 1.17 there and call it a day... hehe but ok I'll check to correct ancell's comment in his bug report
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> lbssousa: if there's interest in a backported epoptes, sure
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| 18:57 | lbssousa: will have to wait till it migrates to stretch in ~5 days ... and i've got a few more things i'd like to tidy up elsewhere ... so probaly no sooner than a week or two
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| 18:58 | alkisg: i seem to recall when i uploaded ldm 2.2.16-1 to experimental that it worked fine, and that doesn't have the patches
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| 18:58 | <lbssousa> vagrantc: I have :)
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| 18:59 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I don't believe netstat lies... :)
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| 18:59 | * vagrantc will test | |
| 19:00 | <alkisg> vagrantc: 14.10 listens in tcp, so ancell's comment is definately wrong
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| 19:00 | I'll update the version check to 1.17 like lbssousa said
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| 19:00 | (so that ldm backports to jessie won't have parameter syntax errors)
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> ok
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| 19:01 | * lbssousa has commented about Xorg 1.17 on LP #1449282 bug | |
| 19:06 | <alkisg> Thank you lbssousa
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| 19:07 | <lbssousa> Is it possible to replace ldm with lightdm for LTSP fat clients?
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| 19:07 | I wanna try LTSP here, but I need a multi-seat ready DM.
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| 19:07 | <vagrantc> heh. gnome-classic in stretch fails to start on LTSP, while plain gnome3 works fine.
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| 19:07 | madness everywhere.
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| 19:08 | lbssousa: yes, it's possible, but you'll miss a few features
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| 19:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: with -trunk? or your latest releases?
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| 19:08 | I think -trunk is needed for that too
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> lbssousa: localapps/remoteapps, ltspfs device mounting, etc.
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| 19:08 | alkisg: needed for what?
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc: for some recent DEs to work
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> with jessie, gnome3 always failed, and gnome-classic always worked.
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> with stretch it's the opposite for some reason
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| 19:09 | alkisg: it's definitely with the (nearly) latest ltsp/ldm
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> I think my fix with DESKTOP_SESSION etc is what fixed gnome3
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> and something else broke gnome-classic?
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| 19:11 | ok, confirmed that ldm 2.2.16-1 fails with LDM_DIRECTX=true
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| 19:11 | <alkisg> ltsp 5.5.4 was published at 2014-10-22, I guess you do have something more recent..
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> i haven't updated the LTSP stack in Debian since jessie release
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| 19:13 | <alkisg> vagrantc: btw, I saw you changed the default to nbd?!!! :)
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it's the only way to resolve the issue
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| 19:13 | alkisg: in a reasonable timeframe
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| 19:14 | alkisg: my preference for NFS loopback images is only marginally higher, and the patches are still sitting in the bug tracking system rotting
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| 19:14 | <alkisg> Cool, if that's permanent it will make the debian/ubuntu ltps instructions the same :)
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| 19:14 | Easier to maintain wikies etc
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| 19:15 | And I would love it if stretch and 16.04 defaulted to dnsmasq somehow..
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| 19:15 | ltsp-pnp package or not
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ok, i've confirmed that the -listen tcp patch is needed in stretch.
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| 19:16 | <lbssousa> vagrantc: is it possible to integrate ldm tighter to systemd-logind, so that http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/writing-display-managers can be implemented? Its easier to implement steps 3 & 4 first (setting XDG_SEAT manually), and then steps 1 & 2. This is the pathway followed in LithgDM.
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> lbssousa: i think our efforts would be better spent getting rid of LDM entirely and just using standard display managers.
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| 19:17 | which has been on the TODO list for approximately 5 years now, i think... ?
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| 19:17 | <lbssousa> vagrantc: are there plans for that? I didn't kow it...
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| 19:17 | I mean, get rid of ldm
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> lbssousa: yes, want to move to simply using LightDM/GDM/KDM/*DM and pam hooks.
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| 19:18 | <lbssousa> Ah OK
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| 19:18 | * alkisg also notes that he has been hearing about sssd being the default sooooon.... since 5 years as well :) | |
| 19:18 | <alkisg> It's not only about ltsp, it's user management in linux in general that progresses slowly
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> lbssousa: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:LTSPPamNotes
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| 19:19 | <lbssousa> Thank you vagrantc!
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> lbssousa: though we might reconsider libpam-sshauth entirely and just use whatever.
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| 19:20 | oh, i remember i need to implement a way to not set a default SCREEN_XX
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| 19:22 | <lbssousa> I've just found this project: https://github.com/opinsys/ltsp-lightdm
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| 19:23 | But I'm not sure if it works for fat clients.
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| 19:25 | <alkisg> That's vmlintu,he's frequently here
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| 19:25 | They're using a heavily customized version of ltsp, so much it's not really ltsp anymore
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| 19:26 | <vagrantc> though it sounds like the puavo ltsp stuff has some features we should consider adopting
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| 19:27 | if we only supported fatclients, it shouldn't be hard to support standard display managers at all...
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| 19:28 | where was i in think whole process
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| 19:28 | alkisg: you never did get around to implementing that option to set a password hash from lts.conf did you?
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| 19:29 | for console login
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| 19:29 | instead of SCREEN_02=shell ... would be nice.
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| 19:30 | * vagrantc has seen far too many SCREEN_02=shell left open for debugging sessions and never commented out | |
| 19:30 | <vagrantc> and then rootshells for everyone!
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| 19:31 | <elias_a> :)
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| 19:34 | <alkisg> !hash
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| 19:34 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'hash', but I do know about these similar topics: 'ROOT_PASSWORD_HASH', 'LDM_PASSWORD_HASH'
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| 19:34 | <alkisg> !ROOT_PASSWORD_HASH
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| 19:34 | <ltsp> ROOT_PASSWORD_HASH: to be able to login as root in vt1, with password "qwer1234", put this in lts.conf: INIT_COMMAND_01="sed 's!^root:[^:]*:!root:$6$p2LdWE6j$PDd1TUzGvvIkj9SE8wbw1gA/MD66tHHlStqi1.qyv860oK47UnKcafSKqGp7cbgZUPlgyPv6giCVyCSCdJt1b0:!' -i /etc/shadow"
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| 19:34 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ^ :P :D
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| 19:34 | * alkisg waves, later... | |
| 19:34 | alkisg is now known as work_alkisg | |
| 19:37 | <vagrantc> work_alkisg: thanks!
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| 19:37 | * vagrantc thinks we should implement that as a feature. | |
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> ok, ldm uploaded to debian unstable...
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| 21:12 | meh. epoptes was uploaded with priority=low ... so it'll be 10 days before we can officially backport it
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