IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 April 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:10 | <pipedrea1> ja
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| 04:57 | <ogra> jammcq, see my comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/97456, please test with the new version (should be ready for download in some hours)
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| 05:31 | <envite> Hello all from Spain
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| 05:31 | Hola a todos desde España
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| 05:36 | <FuL|OUT> hey
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| 05:41 | ltsp is lookin for X11R6 dir to start X
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| 05:41 | don't ha ve it
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| 05:41 | i'm using gentoo
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| 05:42 | nevermind
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| 05:42 | :)
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| 06:43 | <FuL|OUT> anyone knows why ltsp keeps saying that /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg doesn't exist ?
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| 06:44 | <envite> it does not need to search for that
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| 06:44 | does you have any old X packages installed?
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| 06:44 | <FuL|OUT> nop
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| 06:44 | Xorg
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| 06:45 | <envite> hm
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| 06:45 | try making a symlink
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| 06:46 | <FuL|OUT> it does exist
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| 06:46 | on the server
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| 06:46 | the client can't find it
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| 06:46 | <envite> heyheyhey
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| 06:46 | where on the server?
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| 06:46 | <FuL|OUT> /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg
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| 06:46 | <ogra> which ltsp are you running there ?
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| 06:47 | <FuL|OUT> 4.2
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| 06:47 | on a gentoo
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| 06:47 | <envite> but the client does not use that at all!
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| 06:47 | <ogra> in ltsp5 there is no need for X at all on the server, in 4.2 you need a running gdm on the server to connect to
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| 06:47 | <FuL|OUT> net-misc/ltsp-4.2-r1
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| 06:47 | <envite> EVERYTHING the client uses is under /opt/ltsp
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| 06:47 | <ogra> (gdm exposes the XDMCP access to the world)
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| 06:47 | <FuL|OUT> gdm ?
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| 06:47 | can't it be kdm ?
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| 06:47 | <ogra> (4.2 is xdmcp only)
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| 06:48 | <envite> it CAN be kdm, but certain KDM versions does not allow xdmcp
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| 06:48 | <ogra> any login manager that can do xdmcp will work
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| 06:48 | right, you're on te safe side with gdm ... or with ltsp5 :)
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| 06:49 | <envite> but, doublecheck if /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg exists for the client
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| 06:49 | that is
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| 06:49 | under /opt/ltsp
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| 06:49 | it must be /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg
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| 06:50 | you do not have a problem with gdm/kdm yet
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| 06:51 | you can say your problem is that after you have a X mouse cursor on a gray screen ;)
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| 06:51 | before that, your problem is X itself
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| 06:51 | <ogra> right
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| 06:51 | if you see an error about Xorg missing during client boot its surely unrelated to the server
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| 06:52 | then i'd say your client chroot setup is gone wrong
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| 06:56 | <FuL|OUT> that client doesn't hav eit
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| 06:56 | weird
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| 07:03 | <FuL|OUT> it's on boot after the card scan
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| 07:03 | it can't find the Xorg
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| 07:03 | the client doesn't have that dir
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| 07:03 | a symlink ?
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| 07:06 | <SiCk> hey everyone/anyone... i'm having a bit of trouble getting a thin-client to autologin... i've set everything up , config derivative for a gdm.conf file and the user has a disabled password etc... but still it asks for a login... any ideas?
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| 07:07 | <envite> FuL|OUT: yes
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| 07:07 | try it
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| 07:07 | SiCk: sorry, that's not my field :(
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| 07:07 | <SiCk> darn.
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| 07:08 | i gotta run, really hungry! back soon, hope someone can help at some point tho ugh driving me insane.
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| 07:11 | <Blinny> SiCk: A thread is being discussed on k12ltsp-users. Peter Scheie put up a great wiki entry here: http://k12ltsp.org/mediawiki/index.php/A_more_complete_How-To_for_setting_up_autologin_of_clients_using_Gnome_%26_GDM
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| 08:44 | <jammcq> g'morning kids
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| 08:44 | <envite> afternoon here, jammcq
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| 08:45 | :)
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| 08:45 | <Blinny> Howdy
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| 08:45 | <ogra> yo jammcq
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| 08:45 | jammcq, seen my above comment ?
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| 08:45 | <jammcq> umm, nope
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| 08:46 | I saw your comments on launchpad tho
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| 08:46 | does that count?
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| 08:46 | <ogra> jammcq, see my comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/97456, please test with the new version (should be ready for download in some hours)
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| 08:46 | yeah
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| 08:46 | <jammcq> yep
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| 08:46 | <ogra> thats enough :)
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| 08:46 | <jammcq> gonna build a new chroot in a few minutes
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| 08:46 | <ogra> i didnt do much but foud a lot of stuff we could move out of the way
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| 08:46 | <jammcq> just as soon as my laptop finishes doing it's fsck after 38 boots
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| 08:47 | ogra: I built a few kernels myself, but it didn't help
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| 08:47 | <ogra> nobody needs localdev sound and printer support before X is up :)
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| 08:47 | <jammcq> I couldn't figure out how to build a kernel with DEBUG turned off. each time I tried, I got an error about 'Module gone missing: dccp_probe'
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| 08:47 | <ogra> well, i dont think we ca do much about the kernel this late in te release
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| 08:47 | so i concentrated on the achievable things for feisty for now
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| 08:48 | which is shufflg code in scripts
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| 08:48 | i still dont understand where that sleep call came from ...
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| 08:48 | <ogra> its directly below a waitpid ... which makes the script stop anyway until the child is done
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| 08:48 | <jammcq> heh
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| 08:49 | <ogra> i'll do some straceig with ldm later on as well
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| 08:49 | <jammcq> do I need to build a whole new chroot?
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| 08:49 | <ogra> i start to suspect that the ldm script itself loads way to much crap
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| 08:49 | would be nice if you could, just to prove its cean
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| 08:49 | *clean
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| 08:49 | <jammcq> no prob
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| 08:49 | just wondered what the proper way was
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| 08:49 | <ogra> also make sure to be up to date with ltspserver first :)
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| 08:50 | *ltsp-server
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| 08:50 | <jammcq> also, I noticed that wsize=262144,rsize=262144
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| 08:50 | where does that get set?
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| 08:50 | <ogra> ugh
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| 08:50 | that should be 2084 be default or so
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| 08:50 | *by
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| 08:50 | <jammcq> it's the same for debian too
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| 08:50 | <ogra> its set at compile time in the kernel i suppose
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| 08:51 | <jammcq> and 'proto=tcp' is the default
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| 08:51 | hmm
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| 08:51 | <ogra> general default
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| 08:51 | <jammcq> interesting
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| 08:51 | <ogra> where did you find that ?
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| 08:51 | <jammcq> seems like WAY TOO HIGH of a nfs blocksize
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| 08:51 | I set SCREEN_07=shell
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| 08:51 | and then ran 'mount | head'
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| 08:51 | and saw how the / was being mounted
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| 08:51 | <ogra> ah, and there you see these values ? specifically proto ?
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| 08:51 | <jammcq> yep
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| 08:52 | <ogra> i dont remember seeinfg proto there
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| 08:52 | at least with 2.6.20-13
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| 08:53 | <jammcq> here's what it shows:
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| 08:53 | ro,vers=3,rsize=262144,wsize=262144,hard,nolock,proto=tcp,timeo=7,retrans=3,sec=sys,addr=192.168.1.1
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| 08:53 | <ogra> retrans=3 ?
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| 08:53 | that cant be our initramfs
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| 08:53 | <jammcq> yes
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| 08:53 | it is
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| 08:53 | <ogra> retrans is explicitly set to 10
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| 08:53 | <jammcq> and it's the same for debian too
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| 08:53 | it's being overridden somewhere
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| 08:54 | and if I set: NFSOPTS="-o rsize=8192,wsize=8192" in the pxelinux.cfg/default file, it definately changes the rsize and wsize
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| 08:54 | <ogra> only if you set NFSOPTS anywhere
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| 08:54 | <jammcq> but it doesn't seem to make a difference on speed
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| 08:55 | <ogra> elseit will use:
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| 08:55 | <jammcq> try it yourself.
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| 08:55 | <ogra> if [ -z "${NFSOPTS}" ]; then
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| 08:55 | NFSOPTS="-o retrans=10"
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| 08:55 | fi
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| 08:55 | <jammcq> I KNOW what the code says to do, i'm telling you what's really happening
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| 08:55 | <ogra> so something is wrong here
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| 08:55 | <jammcq> I wanted to try proto=udp, but couldn't figure out where to set it
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| 08:56 | <ogra> well, usually in NFSOPTS
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| 08:56 | but i think nfsmount doest understand proto
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| 08:56 | <jammcq> "-o wsize=8192,rsize=8192,proto=udp" gave me an error about wanting an address
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| 08:56 | <ogra> (thats what we found out o friday, remember ?)
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| 08:56 | <jammcq> yep
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| 08:56 | so, something's crazy there
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| 08:56 | <ogra> i thin the whole nfs script in initramfs needs a very deep look
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| 08:57 | something to schedule for UDS
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| 08:57 | <jammcq> it's confusing
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| 08:57 | yep
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| 08:57 | * jammcq has to get on a conf call in 3 minutes | |
| 08:58 | <ogra> see you later then ...
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| 09:42 | <petre> morning all
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| 09:50 | <jammcq> ogra: still got a problem with ltsp-update-kernels :(
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| 09:50 | if you have a ppc chroot, ltsp-update-kernels dies, cuz there's already symlinks for yaboot
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| 09:51 | and when ltsp-update-kernels dies, that causes ltsp-build-client to die
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| 09:51 | <cliebow_> hmmm'
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| 09:52 | <jammcq> and, as we learned a few weeks ago, we don't even need the symlinks for yaboot
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| 09:54 | <ogra> i dont have a bug about that
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| 09:54 | <jammcq> yeah, that's cuz I didn't create one
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| 09:54 | I'll do it now
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| 09:55 | <ogra> thanks
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| 09:55 | move the ppc chroot out of /opt/ltsp to test properly i'd suggest
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| 09:55 | <jammcq> yep, that's zackly what I just did
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| 09:56 | and ltsp-update-kernels doesn't complain anymore
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| 09:57 | <jammcq> ogra: where do I go to create a new bug?
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| 09:57 | <ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug
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| 09:57 | or so
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| 09:58 | <cliebow_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/
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| 09:58 | whoops
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| 09:59 | <ogra> a log of the error woud be ice
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| 09:59 | *nice as well
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| 09:59 | <jammcq> I'll even include the patch
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| 10:00 | <ogra> yay, thanks
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| 10:00 | <tovella> i want to continue testing feisty, but pulseaudio has not been working on my thin clients. how can i switch back to whatever sound system was used with edgy?
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| 10:02 | *sorry, wrong channel.
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| 10:03 | <ogra> tovella, well, either is good :)
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| 10:12 | <FuL|OUT> still got the same error
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| 10:12 | can't find
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| 10:12 | /usr/X11R6/bin/Xorg
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| 10:36 | <blinky_ghost> hi, can anybody tell me why doesn't localdev work on kubuntu, using ltsp5?
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| 10:37 | <ogra> blinky_ghost, it does ?
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| 10:37 | at least here
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| 10:38 | <blinky_ghost> when i use gnome, the localdev works, if i use kde, it doesn't :(
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| 10:38 | <ogra> jammcq, thats not a proper patch ... that would disable the link creation completely, no ?
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| 10:38 | blinky_ghost, hmm, the devices should still show up under /media/$USER
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| 10:38 | <ogra> i know KDE did no integration work for it yet
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| 10:39 | but on a device level it should work as in gnome
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| 10:42 | <blinky_ghost> ogra, you're right, it just doesn't appear the link on the desktop, thanks
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| 10:43 | <ogra> blinky_ghost, you could extend the ltspfsmounter script on the server to do that (eve though the proper fix will be to create virtual hal devices, which i'm planning for feisty+1 or +2)
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| 10:44 | <blinky_ghost> ok. can you tell me if on feisty will booting be faster? it takes a lot of time for terminals to boot now
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| 10:45 | <ogra> i just committed a bunch of changes to speed up booting
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| 10:45 | but we will have a real profiling session in may so the major speedups wil be in feisty+1
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| 10:46 | (the changes i did for feisty were rather on the bootscript area, but there are more essential things to speed up)
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| 10:47 | <vagrantc> ogra: does ubuntu have xen enabled kernels by default?
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| 10:47 | <blinky_ghost> cool :)
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| 10:48 | <ogra> yes, sadly
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| 10:48 | <cliebow__> Woo..my 200 mhz clients in 4.2 boot in less than 3 seconds
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| 10:48 | <ogra> vagrantc, we'll have to have a -ltps kernel next release i think -...
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| 10:48 | * vagrantc wonders if that's partly to blame for the slowdown | |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> ogra: gross :(
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| 10:48 | <ogra> *-ltsp ideed
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| 10:48 | well, we wont need SMP we wont need a lot of other stuff
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| 10:48 | <vagrantc> it's true...
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| 10:49 | <ogra> the speed issues can be solved more properly etc
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| 10:49 | <vagrantc> but you have a -386 kernel ... there are no 386/486 systems that support standard SMP anyways
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| 10:49 | <ogra> i can shuffle around script snippets over and over but the only real speedup will be through the kernel
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| 10:50 | debian/config/i386/config.386:CONFIG_BROKEN_ON_SMP=y
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| 10:50 | debian/config/i386/config.386:# CONFIG_SMP is not set
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| 10:50 | hmm, right
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| 10:50 | well, i still think we'll fid a lot places for speeding up
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> LDM seems to be the biggest slowdown...
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| 10:51 | <ogra> intrestingly droppinf the greeter doest change *anything*
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| 10:51 | *doesnt
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> :(
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| 10:51 | <ogra> i always have the same delay between starting X and bringing up the greeter
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| 10:52 | eve if i comment out all xauth code ... (which sits between X and greeter in the code) i dont see *any* speed differece
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| 10:52 | <blinky_ghost> cliebow, I have this epatec 2300 terminal 200mhz that it takes about 5 minutes to boot
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| 10:52 | <ogra> i suspect python is loading the whole of site-packages
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| 10:52 | <cliebow__> blinky_ghost, that is in 4.2 or 5
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| 10:52 | <ogra> cliebow__, surely not 4.2 :)
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| 10:53 | <blinky_ghost> cliebow, 5, on 4.2 is fast as hell, about 30 seconds
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| 10:53 | <ogra> vagrantc, i guess we'll have to rewrite /usr/sbin/ldm :(
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| 10:53 | <cliebow__> well myy clients are too challenged to run the big rig
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| 10:53 | * ogra wrote a C based greeter over the weekend | |
| 10:53 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, i guess so.
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| 10:54 | <cliebow__> and most wont even take a 2.6 kernel
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| 10:54 | <ogra> thats odd
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| 10:54 | <cliebow__> well they arenetvista
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| 10:54 | <ogra> not eve if you shrink it down ?
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| 10:55 | <cliebow__> i cut one down to 3.6 meg..
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| 10:55 | the provided kernel for em is 1.8 meg
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| 10:55 | uncompressed ernel
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| 10:55 | ive tried all sorts of stuff as has ranger pb who is at ibm
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| 10:56 | <jammcq> blinky_ghost: welcome to the club
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| 10:56 | <blinky_ghost> it's really slow on the "setting up LTSP client"
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| 10:57 | <ogra> thats fixed i feisty
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| 10:57 | at least most of it
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| 10:57 | the changes should shove off about a third of the edgy time from ltsp-client-setup
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| 10:58 | vagrantc, i moved sound, localdev and printers from tsp-client-setup to ltsp-client btw
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| 10:58 | so it starts after X
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| 10:58 | <FuL|OUT> i can boot on a shell in the client but can't use x server
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| 10:58 | :|
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| 10:59 | <vagrantc> ogra: hmmm... so that stuff could be broken while ldm is initializing, no?
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| 10:59 | <ogra> be broken ?
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| 10:59 | <vagrantc> well, if it's not set up... it's theoretically possible that it wouldn't be configured by the time a user logs in... ?
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| 10:59 | <ogra> ldm doesnt care if the helperscripts run
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| 10:59 | <vagrantc> ok...
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| 11:00 | <blinky_ghost> jammcq thanks :)
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| 11:00 | <ogra> and i doubt even with a C gui we'll get ldm speedy enough to create a race
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| 11:00 | <jammcq> blinky_ghost: see this page:https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/97456
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| 11:00 | <vagrantc> just a consideration
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| 11:00 | <jammcq> we're working very hard right now, to fix it
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| 11:00 | <ogra> well, at least what we ca in the last hours where the archive is ope for upoads
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| 11:00 | *ca
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| 11:00 | *can
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| 11:01 | <jammcq> ogra: eTyack proved last week that edgy boots a e2300 faster than feisty
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| 11:01 | * ogra glares at his n key | |
| 11:01 | <cliebow_> poor ogra..beset on all sides
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| 11:01 | <ogra> jammcq, thats fine, but still the archive will be closed soon ...
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| 11:01 | this week at least
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| 11:02 | jammcq, so any opinion about the patch ?
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| 11:02 | <jammcq> which archve are you talking about?
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| 11:02 | i'm testing right this second
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| 11:02 | <ogra> the ubuntu package archive
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| 11:02 | jammcq, i'm talking about my question about the yaboot thing
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| 11:03 | <jammcq> oh, didn't see it
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| 11:03 | <ogra> <ogra> jammcq, thats not a proper patch ... that would disable the link creation completely, no ?
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| 11:03 | <jammcq> that's correct
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| 11:03 | we DO NOT NEED the symlinks
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| 11:03 | that's what my comments said
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| 11:03 | <ogra> ok
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| 11:04 | <jammcq> so it is proper, I think
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| 11:04 | <ogra> if you are 100% positive about it
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| 11:04 | <jammcq> especially since it reduces code size
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| 11:04 | <ogra> then i' fine
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| 11:04 | *i'm
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| 11:04 | <jammcq> cliebow_: we confirmed we don't need symlinks for yaboot, right?
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| 11:04 | <cliebow__> it can sit anywhere..
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| 11:04 | <ogra> ok
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| 11:04 | <cliebow__> as long as dhcpd points to it
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| 11:04 | <ogra> i know there was a fix but i didnt dig deeper
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| 11:05 | jammcq, ok, applied locally
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| 11:05 | <cliebow__> i could try it where you'd like its final resting lace should be
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| 11:05 | with a p
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| 11:07 | * vagrantc wonders whats going on with everybody's keys today | |
| 11:07 | <cliebow__> this wireless card drives me stark raving crazy mad nutsy bowow
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| 11:07 | mine is permanent..and it is not the keys
| |
| 11:08 | <jammcq> ogra: congrats.... you've shaved 10 seconds off the boot time :)
| |
| 11:08 | <ogra> yay
| |
| 11:08 | still not much
| |
| 11:08 | <jammcq> so, instead of 4:45, it now boots in 4:35
| |
| 11:08 | <ogra> but i would have been stunned if it had no effect
| |
| 11:08 | <jammcq> yeah, me too
| |
| 11:08 | or negative effect
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| 11:09 | <ogra> 5 secs from ldm and 5 for moving localdev, printing, sound
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| 11:09 | switch off NBD in your lts.conf and check if that speeds up more ... if so i can drop it from the default
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| 11:10 | <jammcq> k
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| 11:10 | <ogra> jammcq, ok, BenC just agreed that we'll talk about an -ltsp flavor at UDS :)
| |
| 11:11 | which means i'll have to become a kernel maintainer :(
| |
| 11:11 | *SIGH*
| |
| 11:12 | * ogra would love to see a bootchart of ltsp5 vs ltsp 4.2 on the eBox 2300 .... | |
| 11:13 | <ogra> but i bet bootchart would just kill it completely during boot
| |
| 11:13 | <jammcq> heh, by the time bootchart is initialized on LTSP-5, the user would be already logged in on ltsp-4.2
| |
| 11:13 | <ogra> not that i dot trust your stopwatch
| |
| 11:13 | *dont
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| 11:13 | <jammcq> ogra: how can I build a kernel with DEBUG turned off ?
| |
| 11:13 | I tried setting CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL=n
| |
| 11:13 | but it failed after about 40 minutes
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| 11:13 | <ogra> jammcq, thats wrong ...
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| 11:14 | <jammcq> obviously
| |
| 11:14 | <ogra> but i'm not sure whats the proper value
| |
| 11:14 | <jammcq> well, I also tried: # CONFIG_DEBUG_KERNEL is not set
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| 11:14 | <ogra> #ubuntu-kernel might know
| |
| 11:14 | <jammcq> same problem
| |
| 11:14 | i'll ask there
| |
| 11:14 | <ogra> did you chane it i debian/config/i386/ ?
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| 11:14 | *change
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| 11:22 | <jammcq> ogra: yep
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| 11:24 | <ogra> and ran updateconfigs
| |
| 11:24 | what did the kernel team say ?
| |
| 11:28 | <jammcq> no answer from the kernel guys yet
| |
| 11:28 | and yes, i ran updateconfigs
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| 11:28 | <ogra> yeah, i just joined ...
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| 11:29 | <jammcq> yeah, you joined about 2 seconds after I posted my question
| |
| 11:29 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 11:29 | bad timing
| |
| 11:29 | <cliebow_> boot for an g4 ibook is 150 seconds..20 seconds post 30 seconds it loads yaboot..at 50 seconds nfe-premoutn at 100 seconds init-bottom an x aappears at 135 and login screen at 150
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| 11:30 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:30 | <sbalneav> Morning all
| |
| 11:30 | <jammcq> !s
| |
| 11:30 | <ogra> !sbalneav
| |
| 11:30 | <ltspbot> jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 11:30 | ogra: "sbalneav" is Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 11:31 | <ogra> hehg
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| 11:31 | <sbalneav> hahaha
| |
| 11:31 | <cliebow_> that is ltsp-5.0.5
| |
| 11:31 | !j
| |
| 11:31 | <ltspbot> cliebow_: "j" is (#1) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#2) jstraw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#3) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 11:31 | <cliebow_> there
| |
| 11:32 | <ogra> cliebow_, 100 secs just to run the initramfs ?
| |
| 11:32 | whee
| |
| 11:32 | <cliebow_> woohoo! Gnome wasnt built in a day
| |
| 11:33 | this Is my old Sony on a crossover to a g4
| |
| 11:34 | <jammcq> ogra: i've been checking for full-duplex, and that seems fine
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| 11:34 | cliebow__ has quit IRC | |
| 11:34 | <ogra> jammcq, yes, i see it in my syslogs (and in yours)
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| 11:34 | <cliebow_> jammcq:btw..this is with yaboot and yaboot.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/powerpc/
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| 11:34 | gdi2k_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:35 | <ogra> cool
| |
| 11:36 | <cliebow_> ogra:how is vci set in initramfs?any way to change it on a powerpc so it can be used to differentiate root-path?
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| 11:37 | <ogra> cliebow_, less /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs
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| 11:37 | <cliebow_> gotcha
| |
| 11:37 | <ogra> thats how its done ... :)
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| 11:38 | ernierasta has left #ltsp | |
| 11:39 | <ogra> if you can find out how we get the info from dhcp into that script we can rewrite uit
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| 11:44 | <jammcq> ogra: when building a kernel, how can I change the name? something other than '-ref' ?
| |
| 11:44 | <ogra> there is a config option ...
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| 11:44 | extraversion or so
| |
| 11:45 | <jammcq> in the config fiel?
| |
| 11:45 | <cliebow_> minor detail..i just saw it had changed from d-i to (gd gnome-settings-daemon!!) ....now my Sony is hosed
| |
| 11:45 | <jammcq> i've done it in Makefile in the past, but that's not where it's drawing it from here
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| 11:46 | <ogra> cliebow, ? what has changed from d-i to g-s-d ?
| |
| 11:46 | <blinky_ghost> ogra, if I try to use SCREEN_02=startx to logon on the server, fuse doesn't work, can you tell me why?
| |
| 11:47 | <cliebow_> the vendor encapsulated options field was at one time d-i..it has changed..but cant get wireshark running..ahh here it comes
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> blinky_ghost: ltspfs doesn't work with XDMCP
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| 11:47 | <ogra> blinky_ghost, because we didnt add support fro xdmcp
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> sort of
| |
| 11:47 | <ogra> sbalneav is working on a fix for feisty +1 or ü2
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| 11:47 | *+2
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| 11:48 | <sbalneav> Feisty + 1
| |
| 11:49 | <cliebow_> yeah..option 60 changed from d-i to Linux ipconfig"
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| 11:50 | i assume for both i386 and ppc initramfs
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| 11:50 | <ogra> cliebow_, ahh .... in my world d-i means debian installer ...
| |
| 11:50 | <cliebow_> heh..i think i asked this before..
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| 11:58 | edgarin has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:02 | <FuL|OUT> have mouse but X is black and white
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| 12:02 | :|
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| 12:03 | <ogra> start a logi manager with xdmcp enabled on your server
| |
| 12:03 | *login
| |
| 12:07 | <FuL|OUT> i can startx now
| |
| 12:07 | perhaps need a config specific for that client
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| 12:09 | <ogra> start a login manager with xdmcp enabled on your server
| |
| 12:09 | and see the wiki, search for grey or gray screen
| |
| 12:12 | <cliebow_> !grayscreen
| |
| 12:12 | <ltspbot> cliebow_: "grayscreen" is No login, and only a grey screen? See http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Troubleshooting-GrayScreen#GDM
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| 12:12 | <ogra> :)
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| 12:12 | <cliebow_> 8~)
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| 12:12 | gdi2k_ has quit IRC | |
| 12:18 | <FuL|OUT> ok thk alot
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| 12:18 | it seems to work now
| |
| 12:18 | :)
| |
| 12:18 | humm
| |
| 12:18 | any way to share a home on the client
| |
| 12:18 | using the nfs
| |
| 12:18 | ?
| |
| 12:21 | sgonzalez has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:22 | <FuL|OUT> humm
| |
| 12:22 | it worked
| |
| 12:22 | once
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| 12:22 | when the server reboot
| |
| 12:22 | it stayed the same
| |
| 12:22 | humm
| |
| 12:29 | <sgonzalez> My first post here. Let me know any faux pas...
| |
| 12:29 | <jammcq> sgonzalez: well, so far, so good
| |
| 12:30 | <sgonzalez> I have an HP2430 that keeps freezing up. I'm using Ubuntu 6.06 with LTSP on it. Sometimes pauses. Sometimes just refuses to play.
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| 12:30 | petre has quit IRC | |
| 12:30 | <sgonzalez> Can sometimes unpause. Sometimes need a cupsys restart. Any ideas why? It will, at the same time, work fine with Windows network.
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| 12:31 | <jammcq> how is the HP connected to the server?
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| 12:31 | FuL|OUT has quit IRC | |
| 12:31 | <sgonzalez> Ethernet.
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| 12:32 | <jammcq> prolly #ubuntu is where you need to be asking that question. it's really got nothing to do with thin clients
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| 12:32 | <sgonzalez> ok. thanks. is that part of freenode too?
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| 12:32 | <jammcq> yep
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| 12:35 | sgonzalez has quit IRC | |
| 12:48 | metztlixictli has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:48 | <metztlixictli> se vagrantc
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| 12:48 | hi
| |
| 12:48 | i have problem with client video card sis630
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| 12:48 | no run X
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| 12:50 | ping edgarin
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| 12:52 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
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| 13:02 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:05 | * kaminski-ltsp-br is away: home | |
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| 14:02 | <pscheie> sbalneav: ping
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| 14:03 | <sbalneav> pscheie: pong
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| 14:04 | <pscheie> what would be the effect of commenting out the floppy lines in ltps-device.sh?
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| 14:04 | <sbalneav> I dunno. Why don't you try it and see? :)
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| 14:05 | <pscheie> okay, I will
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| 14:05 | <sbalneav> Off the top of my head, I'd say "disable the floppy bits", I don't think I'm doing anything there that would affect things lower down.
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| 14:05 | <pscheie> (gotta pull my laptop out of the bag and turn it on
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| 14:05 | <sbalneav> Always make a backup copy :)
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| 14:06 | <pscheie> I was thinking of just pounding out the floppy lines in the case statement, around line 88
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| 14:27 | <cliebow_> while the whole damn country is in Seville I think i'll do a little looting and pillaging
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| 14:29 | <ogra> just join us and have some tapas ;)
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| 14:31 | <cliebow_> that would be a solution8~)
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| 14:34 | cliebow_ has quit IRC | |
| 14:39 | <dem> jim, i was thinking of the load balancing (and i got a simple server component of it done already)
| |
| 14:39 | but i've scratched my head and it seams like there's no simple way of doing it at (or right before) login time
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| 14:40 | since when we pick it at X server launch time, many of the clients will sit there for a day or so before some one logs in
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> that's where something like LDM comes in handy, as the login screen runs locally ...
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| 14:41 | so you could load-balance at login time...
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| 14:41 | not that it supports that at the moment... but... :)
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| 14:41 | i've often wondered if you couldn't write an X application that talks the XDMCP protocol, but runs locally...
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| 14:41 | <ogra> pfft, trivial
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| 14:41 | <dem> yeah, except we'd rather run gdm... because we can still give people a choice of which server they want to use (ultimatly)
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| 14:42 | <ogra> (not the xdmcp stuff, the balancer)
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| 14:42 | <vagrantc> ogra: yes, i know it's easy to write.
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| 14:42 | <dem> i have the code for it, i have the server component, and a simple server picker (based on retrived results)
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| 14:42 | <ogra> i suspect next release wont see many new features though ....
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| 14:42 | <dem> but i'd rather not use ldm that's all
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| 14:42 | <ogra> speedup is more important
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| 14:43 | <vagrantc> apparently, there seems to be some focus on speedup, eh?
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| 14:43 | <ogra> yes, needed
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| 14:43 | <dem> ogra: bootup speed?
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| 14:43 | <ogra> yes
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| 14:43 | most of it ldm ...
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| 14:44 | but also some kernel cut down ...
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| 14:44 | <dem> well i can help
| |
| 14:44 | it be nice if all the init scripts were upstart native not old init scripts called by upstart
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| 14:44 | <ogra> right
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| 14:45 | btu these scripts are the default ubuntu ones and we dont want to change them specifically for ltsp
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| 14:45 | <dem> well i belive they already have some of them done, they just missed the window
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| 14:45 | at least that's what i read/heared
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| 14:45 | <ogra> so that means going over all apps used in the client (ubuntu-minimal dependencies) and fixing them
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> i think if we split the init scripts into modular parts, it would be fairly easy to support both "old" style init scripts as well as upstart and such
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| 14:46 | <ogra> right, thats some free stuff we'll inherit from ubuntu :)
| |
| 14:46 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 14:46 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, i was hping debian would just consider upstart for etch+1 :)
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| 14:46 | * vagrantc isn't counting on it | |
| 14:46 | <ogra> vagrantc, the above was meant to dem
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| 14:47 | <dem> well you can do that already
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| 14:47 | move things one by one
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| 14:47 | /* for the most part */
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| 14:47 | <ogra> dem, yes, but i really like to have the people nowing deeply about the apps move their initscripts (and debug them) ...
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| 14:47 | <vagrantc> ogra: and that's also presuming distro FOO will switch to upstart :P
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| 14:48 | <ogra> right
| |
| 14:48 | indeed
| |
| 14:48 | <vagrantc> i think we
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| 14:48 | <ogra> i'm hoping the world will switch to upstart at some point :)
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> 'll need to support old-style in some form or fashion, lest there be a lot of forkage
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| 14:49 | <ogra> meh
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| 14:49 | <vagrantc> well, i don't think it will be terribly difficult.
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| 14:49 | <ogra> it will bloat
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| 14:49 | <vagrantc> we just need to split the scripts into smaller pieces, which could be run from upstart or old-school init anyways.
| |
| 14:50 | which is what i've wanted to do anyways
| |
| 14:50 | <ogra> well, you are talking about our two ltsp scripts here
| |
| 14:50 | <vagrantc> yes, i am.
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| 14:50 | <ogra> there are many many more
| |
| 14:51 | even though neither of them should cause big slowdowns ...
| |
| 14:51 | <dem> for our deployment we're getting 3 (or maybe 4) more 2x quad-core intel servers
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| 14:51 | <ogra> not in old nor new style init
| |
| 14:51 | <dem> to server out desktops, so i'm working on some loadbalancing support for ltsp
| |
| 14:51 | <ogra> the big slowdowns we currently have is the loading of modules and ldm
| |
| 14:51 | <vagrantc> well, i don't want the ltsp codebase to require forking init scripts, that's my concern here.
| |
| 14:52 | ogra: kernel modules?
| |
| 14:52 | <ogra> i dont really care about our two scripts here ... even wif we fork them ...
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| 14:52 | they are small
| |
| 14:52 | <dem> now with this redesign of launchpad i can't find find people on it anymore
| |
| 14:52 | <ogra> yes, the "loading hardware drivers" part of ubuntu takes the longest brea in booting
| |
| 14:53 | *break
| |
| 14:53 | which is the part where udev and module-init-tools run and load modules/create devices
| |
| 14:54 | <dem> orga, what's the url to your branch
| |
| 14:54 | <ogra> i think well need to cut the module list for an -ltsp kernel to speed that up
| |
| 14:54 | https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+branches
| |
| 14:54 | <vagrantc> lists of modules loaded at boot time?
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| 14:55 | <ogra> specifically: https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
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| 14:55 | vagrantc, the speedup is "cut down the list of available modules"
| |
| 14:55 | so parsing it will take less ....
| |
| 14:56 | beyond that the initrd will get a lot smaller
| |
| 14:56 | and load faster
| |
| 14:56 | edgarin has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:57 | <ogra> vagrantc, the idea is to pic the kernel config from the 4.2 kernels, adapt it to the recent source and build a specific -ltsp flavor
| |
| 14:57 | <vagrantc> hrm.
| |
| 14:57 | <ogra> dunno if that works for debian
| |
| 14:57 | <vagrantc> it's a lot of work, probably.
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| 14:58 | <ogra> well, it's just adding and maintaining another config in the kernel package for me
| |
| 14:58 | <vagrantc> but if it's the only way to get the needed speed improvements...
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| 14:58 | <edgarin> vagrantc, hola!
| |
| 14:58 | <ogra> well, the etch kernel seems slightly faster than the feisty one ...
| |
| 14:58 | <vagrantc> edgarin: buenas tardes
| |
| 14:58 | <ogra> but there are two versions inbetween i think
| |
| 14:59 | <edgarin> vagrantc, como estas?
| |
| 14:59 | <vagrantc> edgarin: esta bien, mas o menos
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra> so even debians kernel is massively slower than the 4.2 one
| |
| 14:59 | <edgarin> vagrantc, working?
| |
| 14:59 | <vagrantc> edgarin: manana
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| 15:00 | <edgarin> ahh
| |
| 15:01 | vagrantc, you have a blog?
| |
| 15:01 | * vagrantc suspects it will be difficult to get the debian kernel maintainers to maintain yet another kernel | |
| 15:01 | <vagrantc> edgarin: not really
| |
| 15:01 | <ogra> time to get one :)
| |
| 15:01 | <edgarin> vagrantc, umm... but you are a official developer of Debian or no?
| |
| 15:01 | <vagrantc> edgarin: not yet official, no.
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| 15:02 | <edgarin> ohhh
| |
| 15:02 | vagrantc, see this: http://www.df7cb.de/pictures/0605-DebConf6/060508-Hacking/25-Maulkin_vagrantc_otavio.jpg
| |
| 15:02 | :P
| |
| 15:02 | <vagrantc> edgarin: i'm an active co-maintainer of the ltsp packages in debian
| |
| 15:02 | <edgarin> vagrantc, cool!
| |
| 15:02 | <ogra> hah
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| 15:02 | edgarin, he *is* debians ltsp team
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| 15:02 | <edgarin> :D
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| 15:03 | <ogra> dont trust him isf he says different things
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| 15:03 | edgarin has quit IRC | |
| 15:03 | <vagrantc> whoah, evidence of me drinking beer from a can! now that's rare.
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| 15:04 | i could probably count the times on one hand.
| |
| 15:08 | <jammcq> what, you prefer to drink it right out of the tap ?
| |
| 15:10 | <ogra> jammcq, so you think we'll find evidence of him lying under a cow ?
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| 15:10 | <jammcq> heh
| |
| 15:15 | * vagrantc prefers glass | |
| 15:16 | * ogra thinks about glass cows ... | |
| 15:17 | <jammcq> glass cows don't throw stones
| |
| 15:17 | for obvious reasons
| |
| 15:17 | * vagrantc soaks up the wisdom | |
| 15:18 | <ogra> lol
| |
| 15:20 | * ogra thinks 12h at work is enough and takes the laptop upstairs | |
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> how big is the initramfs image in ltsp 4.2 ?
| |
| 15:44 | and kernel, for that matter
| |
| 15:45 | <jammcq> the kernel is 1.6mb and the initramfs is 1.3mb
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> compare that to nearly 3MB for the initramfs and about 1.1 MB for the kernel in debian ... i wonder how much that slows down the boot process
| |
| 15:46 | <jammcq> not very much
| |
| 15:46 | the kernel+initramfs get downloaded in less than 2 seconds
| |
| 15:47 | uncompressing the larger initramfs takes a few more milliseconds
| |
| 15:47 | <vagrantc> though uncompressing a bigger initramfs image
| |
| 15:47 | hmmm...
| |
| 15:47 | <jammcq> ltsp-4.2 has the user logged in at about the same time the ltsp-5 kernel even thinks about going into userspace
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> hrm.
| |
| 15:53 | <dem> init=/sbin/bootchartd
| |
| 15:54 | <vagrantc> jammcq: you talking ubuntu or debian there?
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| 15:54 | <dem> sorry, x11 copy and paste
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| 15:58 | sbalneav has quit IRC | |
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| 16:03 | <jammcq> vagrantc: yes
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| 16:04 | even Debian takes longer than it should
| |
| 16:04 | <dem> ugh, socket programing in python
| |
| 16:04 | <vagrantc> hmmm...
| |
| 16:04 | dem: would you prefer csh ?
| |
| 16:04 | <dem> jammcq: if i remember correctly ubuntus way of hardware detetction is keep throwing modules at the wall to see what sticks
| |
| 16:05 | <jammcq> vagrantc: 41 secs in LTSP-4.2 vs 118 secs in Debian
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc> jammcq: but does debian stall at the same places ubuntu does? because ubuntu was a good deal slower, no?
| |
| 16:06 | <jammcq> umm, haven't looked that closely
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| 16:06 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 16:06 | <jammcq> btw, Ubuntu-ltsp-5 284 seconds
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| 16:06 | so, 118 vs 284 is a HUGE difference
| |
| 16:06 | but even 118 is way to long
| |
| 16:06 | <vagrantc> and this is after some speed improvements?
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| 16:07 | <jammcq> oh, now it's 274 for Ubuntu
| |
| 16:07 | so there has been *some* improvements
| |
| 16:07 | <Lumiere> hmm
| |
| 16:07 | are you using the standard ubuntu/debian kernels?
| |
| 16:07 | <vagrantc> on debian, yes.
| |
| 16:07 | <jammcq> on Ubuntu, it's using the Ubuntu kernel
| |
| 16:08 | <Lumiere> 2 minutes is 1 minute 30 seconds too long imo
| |
| 16:08 | <jammcq> but.... that really shouldn't matter
| |
| 16:08 | J45p3r has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:08 | <vagrantc> jammcq: these are the times with LDM ?
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| 16:08 | <jammcq> yes
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| 16:08 | <vagrantc> jammcq: have you tested debian with startx ?
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| 16:08 | <jammcq> it's quite a bit better with XDMCP, but still too slow
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| 16:08 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/BootSpeedeBox2300
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| 16:09 | feast your eyes on that
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| 16:09 | <dem> jim, you think it be acceptable to say for like 10 seconds after typing your username/password in ldm "Please wait while locating the faster server"
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| 16:09 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 16:09 | <dem> i'm trying to figure out what would be a good maxiumum to ping everything
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| 16:09 | <jammcq> it'd be a good first step, I suppose
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| 16:10 | <Lumiere> dem: how about "Please wait while we optimize your login"
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| 16:10 | <jammcq> heh
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| 16:10 | <dem> i'm already "pinging" all of them in parallel
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| 16:10 | <jammcq> if a server doesn't respond within about 3 seconds, we prolly don't want to log into it
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| 16:10 | <dem> i guess, i could have ldm constant check for the fastest machine while some one is not log in
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> why not have ldm pinging them periodically to keep track of which is loaded at any given time?
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| 16:11 | <dem> but that's like step 5
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| 16:11 | i'm on step 2
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> so then the user can just log in
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| 16:11 | <Lumiere> dem: I think the goal should be to not tell people that they're checking choices
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> i guess it generates nedless trafic
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| 16:11 | <Lumiere> vagrantc: not that much
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| 16:11 | <jammcq> I'd wait about 3 seconds, then look at the results you got, and choose the fastest. if none of them respond within that time, then take the first one that responds
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| 16:12 | <dem> yeah i'm trying to pick the best one based on load / number of processors and memory free right now
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| 16:12 | i didn't get around to any kind of backup plan yet
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| 16:13 | <jammcq> but if it takes more than a few seconds to respond, we prolly don't want it
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> both ubuntu and debian are faster at logging back in :)
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| 16:13 | <jammcq> vagrantc: i'm considering that an anomolly
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| 16:13 | <dem> well with jorge's broken dns resolve or whatever... it sometimes takes time
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| 16:14 | <Lumiere> imo the login server should be put in hosts on the local system as part of bootup
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| 16:14 | <dem> that's why i picked 10 seconds as the goal for the whole thing to finish (application start to return)
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| 16:14 | <Lumiere> in fact
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| 16:14 | I'd say ltsp should automate a hosts file on the system to have all the app and login servers in hosts
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| 16:15 | so you never use dns
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| 16:15 | <dem> yeah, i'm woried about the people who will maintain this setup after me (jorge)
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| 16:17 | they use ad for dns too, so it be less trivial to automate it
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| 16:19 | <Lumiere> ad?
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| 16:21 | <dem> active directory
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| 16:24 | <Lumiere> ewww
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| 16:25 | dem: how do you track available app/login servers?
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| 16:25 | ad as well?
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| 16:25 | <dem> well we have one right now... and a second one that isn't used
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| 16:26 | the whole infastructure for it sucks right now
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| 16:26 | <Lumiere> yea
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| 16:26 | <dem> it was like hey we got ltsp clients friday, and mondey they got put in service
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| 16:26 | monday even
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| 16:26 | <Lumiere> ouch
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| 16:26 | well
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| 16:26 | <dem> and it was swapped out mid semester to replace sunrays
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| 16:26 | <Lumiere> ah
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| 16:27 | <dem> which was a night mare
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| 16:27 | all of it will be fixed at the end of this semester
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| 16:27 | <Lumiere> if you have to mark a place to say what app/login servers are available
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| 16:27 | <dem> or, more like we'll putting together a real infastructure together
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| 16:27 | and we'll be done by winner semester
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| 16:27 | <Lumiere> ah
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| 16:27 | <dem> erm, fall
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| 16:28 | we'll put online one fesity server, then a second one (the non-used one)
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| 16:28 | and then two months later we will have 3 more intel core2 2x quad core boxes
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| 16:29 | <Lumiere> yea
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| 16:30 | <dem> our users are idiots... like one dude will run some java simulation tool and use all 4 cores on a server
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| 16:32 | so we need lot's of boxes and lots of power and memory
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| 16:32 | they just don't know any better, to even nice their applications
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| 16:32 | and limits on linux are pretty shitty
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| 16:34 | * vagrantc suspects some "and" or "verynice" would come in handy | |
| 16:36 | <dem> well there's not really a good sollution to penalize applications for long running applications, by gradualy reducing their priority
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| 16:36 | esp the matlabs, fluents, gambits, UGS and all the proprietary stuff that runs
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> well, if you want them to nice things ...
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| 16:41 | <dem> or this one time we just got a new box with 16 gigs or ram, and like 3 days later our machine comes starts griding and 10 minutes when we finaly are able to login, and check memory
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| 16:41 | turns out some dude was using 16 gigs or ram and 10 gigs of swap
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| 16:41 | it's like the resources are there for them but they abuse them and there is no good way to limit them
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| 16:42 | <Lumiere> quotas
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| 16:42 | :)
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| 16:42 | something large but sane
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| 16:42 | <dem> quotas only work for diskspace
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| 16:42 | and linux limits suck
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| 16:42 | <Lumiere> heh
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| 17:32 | <vagrantc> !greyscreen
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| 17:32 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "greyscreen" is No login, and only a grey screen? See http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Troubleshooting-GrayScreen
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| 17:32 | <cliebow> !grayscreen
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| 17:32 | <ltspbot> cliebow: "grayscreen" is No login, and only a grey screen? See http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Troubleshooting-GrayScreen#GDM
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| 19:46 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: hi
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| 19:47 | <sbalneav> Hey vagrantc
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: do you realize how much use that little usb ethernet device you gave me has gotten?
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| 19:47 | <sbalneav> I'm guessing either "none" or "lots" :)
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 19:48 | <sbalneav> Useful?
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| 19:48 | primeministerp has quit IRC | |
| 19:48 | <vagrantc> it's been my primary nic for my ltsp development
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| 19:48 | <sbalneav> They're handy little dinguses, especially on laptops
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 19:53 | <jammcq> hey kids
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| 19:54 | <sbalneav> Hey, dad
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| 19:54 | <jammcq> :)
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| 19:58 | <dem> vmware is awesome for testing ltsp clients
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| 19:58 | just create an machine pxe boot, and reboot and reboot etc
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| 19:58 | <jammcq> yeah, pretty slick, eh?
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| 19:58 | too bad vmware sucks so bad with sped-stepping hosts
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| 19:59 | s/sped/speed/
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| 19:59 | <dem> i have no issues on core 1 duo
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| 19:59 | <jammcq> laptop ?
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| 19:59 | <dem> yeah
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| 20:00 | <jammcq> no problems with the clock ?
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| 20:00 | <dem> no, haven't run into them
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| 20:00 | althought it takes a while for the clock to fix it self when you suspend a guest
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| 20:00 | <jammcq> hmm, it's a real problem on mine, but it's not a core duo
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| 20:01 | if I do a "sleep 1" inside a guest, it sleeps for like 17 seconds
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| 20:02 | <dem> hmm, never ran into that to be honest
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| 20:02 | <jammcq> maybe I need a new lappy
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| 20:03 | <dem> pentium m?
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| 20:04 | <jammcq> yep
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| 20:04 | is that known problem or something?
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| 20:05 | <dem> no just curious
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| 20:05 | since the core duo are just an evolution of p m
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| 20:09 | <dem> 160 gig laptop sata drive for $119
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| 20:09 | so tempting
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| 20:48 | * PMantis dances | |
| 20:48 | <jammcq> heh
| |
| 20:48 | * PMantis just made his first debian package | |
| 20:49 | <PMantis> niiiiiiiiiiiiice
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| 21:08 | <vagrantc> PMantis: oh yeah? did you use lazy tools, or do it the hard way?
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| 21:08 | <PMantis> vagrantc, I have no idea. only know one way. :)
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| 21:09 | I setup a dir structure, created a control file, and ran dpkg -b
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> egads!
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| 21:10 | <PMantis> ?
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| 21:10 | !egads
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| 21:10 | <ltspbot> PMantis: Error: "egads" is not a valid command.
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> that's definitely the hard way.
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| 21:10 | <PMantis> ok, teach me the easy way. :)
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> heh :)
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| 21:10 | PMantis: oh, have you run lintian on them?
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| 21:10 | <PMantis> It's a very simple package.
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| 21:11 | lintian?
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> it checks for common packaging mistakes
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| 21:11 | <PMantis> The only thing the package contains is a few files that sit in /usr/lib/dirname
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| 21:12 | Looking for a simple way to upgrade a few machines easily after I get it right once...
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| 21:12 | This seemed like the best approach
| |
| 21:16 | Hmmm
| |
| 21:16 | no-copyright-file
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| 21:16 | extended-description-is-empty
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| 21:16 | essential-no-not-needed
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| 22:34 | <vagrantc> not too bad
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| 22:38 | <Lumiere> vagrantc: is there a good way to learn how to make a debian package?
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| 22:39 | MeBadMagic has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:39 | * Lumiere will read about it tomorrow... gotta be up in 6 hours | |
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| 22:39 | <Lumiere> pictures of sakura (cherry blossoms) tomorrow bright and early
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