IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 March 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:25 | <lucas__> hi, has someone tested the asus eeepc as thin client ?
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| 07:26 | <Nubae> sounds like a cool idea :-) they're small and sweet
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| 07:31 | <cyberorg> i know ogra_ has been testing classmate pc
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| 07:38 | <lucas__> I am trying to figure this out, bcz it is really cool.
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| 07:39 | I don't know if there is boot on lan option on bios. This is main question and concern.
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| 07:40 | I found this site http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?pid=153913
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| 11:40 | <subsume> I've got some directions setting up an LTSP fat client but I need some small clarification. Could someone please help?
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| 11:40 | I know I can load an operating system in the /opt folder of the host machine. But I am not understanding how client machines read from this.
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| 11:41 | <steph_> I have a "TFTP cannot open connection" error. Can someone help me?
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| 11:47 | <sepski> steph_, client trying to connect to the right server, and are there tftp service running on that server ?
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| 11:47 | subsume, traditionaly by nfs. but also livecd image via nbd now
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| 11:48 | <subsume> sepski: I don't just make the BIOS network boot?
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| 11:49 | <sepski> subsume, yes that's step 1:
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| 11:49 | <subsume> ok, that's all I wanted to know
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| 11:49 | <steph_> sepski: I first installed ubuntu, then ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server. Then ltsp-build-client / ltsp-update-sshkeys. My server's network card is set to 192.168.0.1 and the router between the client and the server is set to 192.168.0.254 ? Is there something missing?
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| 11:49 | <subsume> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients <-- you guys seen this? Its really cool.
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| 11:50 | <sepski> steph_, you usauly can't have a router between client and server. since the client rely on dhcp to get boot information from the server, and that wont go across the router without special configuration
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| 11:50 | <steph_> sepski: ...I set the router DHCP fonction disabled.
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| 11:51 | <sepski> subsume, nice that it's finaly going into ltsp properly we'v been running debian-edu's diskless machine hack for a few years
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| 11:51 | steph_, even with it enabeled it would give out wrong information
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| 11:51 | <subsume> sepski: wow.
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| 11:52 | <sepski> a better integrated solution is great :)
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| 11:52 | steph_, usualy i have 2 nics on the ltsp server. one nic is for the internet connected to router and the net at large
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| 11:53 | and the other net is to the thin clients. where the server provides dhcp for the clients
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| 11:53 | <steph_> sepski: It worked last week! I just made a fresh installation to be sure I can set up LTSP quickly. Can't find what I'm missing?
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| 11:53 | <subsume> If I connect my fat clients via network cables instead of wifi will they be faster??
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| 11:53 | <sepski> subsume, yes. and now do you intend to network boot across wifi ?
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| 11:53 | <steph_> sepski: I'm running 8.04 if it can help.
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| 11:54 | <subsume> sepski: They were all setup with wifi. yeah. I was intending to boot via wifi (for now)
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| 11:54 | <sepski> how would you boot wia wifi ?
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| 11:54 | <subsume> sepski: it is a network connection like any other...?
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| 11:54 | <sepski> do you have external wifi ethernet adapters ?
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| 11:54 | <steph_> sepski: do I have to change something in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf? I can't remember what I've done.
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| 11:54 | <sepski> no. wifi require lots of OS config before working.
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| 11:54 | eg SSID, encryption etc
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| 11:54 | <subsume> sepski: ok. I suppose I don't.
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| 11:54 | <sepski> you can not network boot on wifi at all
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| 11:55 | <subsume> but it will be faster if i convert?
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| 11:55 | <sepski> unless you have a adapter that you can configure with wifi settings that are stored outside the OS
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| 11:55 | yes
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| 11:55 | <subsume> right now the whole network simply has an NFS /home drive
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| 11:55 | and when everyone is logged in, you can hear the machines creaking.
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| 11:55 | <sepski> steph_, think ltsp-server comes with a dhcp.conf example file and yes you have to configure lots
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| 11:58 | <steph_> sepski: I'm really not a guru with network :( Can you give me some advices. I would like to know which line(s) I have to change?
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| 11:58 | <subsume> Ok, I am ready to crush, kill, destroy. thank you for your help.
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| 11:58 | <sepski> steph_, you'd get much better result from reading the example file. then from me trying to remember things...
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| 11:59 | but atlest filename and next-server
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| 11:59 | next-server should be your tftp server
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| 12:00 | file name the path to pxelinux.0 on that tftp server
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| 12:01 | <steph_> sepski: the "next-server" line is disabled with a #. What is th meaning of this line?
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| 12:02 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, thats only used for nfs root ... which isnt used anymore in ubuntu since a year
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| 12:03 | <sepski> steph_, hence why reading the example line is better :)
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| 12:03 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, make sure to not have more than one dhcp server running in your network ...
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| 12:04 | netbooting wont work with more than one
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| 12:04 | (check your router etc)
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| 12:05 | <sepski> steph_, and dont have the router between the client and the server as you meantion above. client should be on the same network as the router.
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| 12:05 | same network as the server i mean
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| 12:05 | <steph_> My router's DHCP function has been disabled. Could it be a problem with my server's DHCP?
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| 12:06 | <cyberorg> ogra_, got pa working on opensuse 11 :)
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| 12:06 | i mean on ltsp client
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| 12:06 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, so you are sure there is definately only the ltsp server servig dhcp atm ?
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| 12:06 | cyberorg, pa ?
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| 12:07 | <cyberorg> i used esound on 10.3, just finished getting pulseaudio working
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| 12:07 | <ogra_cmpc> ah, pulse
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| 12:07 | got proper alsa emulation ?
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| 12:07 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: Well, I'm sure the router is configured correctly, but not the server !
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| 12:07 | <cyberorg> donno about how proper, but it works out of box
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| 12:08 | i see the client in padevchooser and music plays fine, i can use gnome volume control too
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| 12:08 | <ogra_cmpc> steph_, does the dhcp server start without error on the server ?
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| 12:09 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: with the command /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server start? Yes
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| 12:09 | <ogra_cmpc> do a reastart
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| 12:09 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: is there a log file that I can look at?
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| 12:09 | <ogra_cmpc> else it fill throw a fil message since its running alrewady
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| 12:09 | <cyberorg> and i discovered accidentally that nc in ltsp scripts is what we call netcat on suse
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| 12:10 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: a restart does'nt gave me errors.
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| 12:11 | <ogra_cmpc> thats a good sign
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| 12:11 | and it said ok after startiong ?
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| 12:11 | <steph_> yep
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| 12:12 | ogra_cmpc: What does "TFTP cannot open connection" means?
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| 12:12 | <ogra_cmpc> that it doesnt find your tftp server
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| 12:13 | which would automatically be your ltsdp server if dhcp would work correctly
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| 12:13 | really chack the router another time
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| 12:14 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: wow, a restart fix everything. But that's not enough for me.... I would like to understabd what happened. I even tried a reboot. But nothings worked.
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| 12:14 | <ogra_cmpc> might be that you didnt restart inetd after setting the IP for the NIC
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| 12:15 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: I don't like to make Windows voodoo incantation to make my LTSP works :)
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| 12:15 | <ogra_cmpc> (tftpd is started by inetd on request)
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| 12:15 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: would it start automatically next time I will boot?
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| 12:15 | <ogra_cmpc> indeed
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| 12:16 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: what is inetd's job?
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| 12:18 | <ogra_cmpc> listenting on all ports that arent taken by anyone else ... if a request comes in for a port thats defined in inetd.conf it starts the accoring app
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| 12:19 | <steph_> ... like connecting to LTSP server?
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| 12:19 | <ogra_cmpc> well, inetd serves two critical services for ltsp
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| 12:19 | (tftp for the initramfs and kernel ... and nbd for the root filesystem)
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| 12:20 | <steph_> ogra_cmpc: your answers satisfied me for the moment ;) Thanks
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| 12:20 | <ogra_cmpc> :)
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| 12:34 | <steph_> How can I set up preferences for all the students (kinf of default student) that i add with LTSP?
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| 12:51 | <rjune> that depends on what environment you use
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| 12:51 | gnome uses sabyon, kde uses kiosktool
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| 13:11 | <warren> jcastro, you there?
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| 13:11 | ogra_cmpc, ping
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| 13:38 | <jcastro> warren: yeah, what's up
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| 13:39 | <warren> jcastro, does your ssh have both -X and -Y options in the man page?
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| 13:39 | <jcastro> looking
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| 13:39 | yeah
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| 13:39 | <warren> jcastro, /etc/ssh/ssh_config
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| 13:39 | jcastro, what is ForwardX11Trusted set to?
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| 13:40 | <jcastro> nothing, it's commented out
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| 13:59 | <cyberorg> ForwardX11Trusted yes on suse
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| 13:59 | <warren> jcastro, what version of openssh?
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| 14:00 | <jcastro> warren: 4.7p1, I'm using the development release of ubuntu
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| 14:03 | <warren> jcastro, I'm afraid the ldm will break with the security fix
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| 14:03 | jcastro, your distro doesn't seem to turn on trusted X11 forwarding by default like others
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| 14:04 | jcastro, if everyone has ssh -Y then we should switch to -Y instead of -X.
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| 14:04 | <jcastro> maybe we should have that on by default
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| 14:05 | <warren> maybe, but that doesn't help existing users
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| 14:05 | <jcastro> I am unsure what the policy is on that, maybe it's something we inherit from debian
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| 14:05 | <warren> given that we want -Y anyway, I'll add it to ldm
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| 15:22 | <steph__> I would like to install software only for the client. sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get install X does'nt give the results expected. Can someone help?
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| 16:15 | <elisboa> steph__: which errors do you get?
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| 19:32 | <vagrantc> it's been a while since i've installed a plain debian etch ltsp without backports.
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| 19:48 | <warren> vagrantc, I'm changing ssh -X to ssh -Y
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| 19:49 | vagrantc, and I've spent all day trying to make LDM_DIRECTX work without -ac, i'm out of time. I have to ship our F9beta with your patch then continue work on ldm's xauth
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| 19:49 | vagrantc, I'm adding an optional location for the Xauthority file because /root/.Xauthority doesn't work for me. my userspace prevents me from reading/writing in there for some reason I don't understand, even as root.
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| 19:50 | vagrantc, buildtime option. If you don't specify an option like --Xauthority= then it defaults to /root/
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| 19:50 | vagrantc, although would people be against /var/run/somewhere instead?
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> warren: so ship it with a patch.
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| 19:50 | <warren> vagrantc, I have no fedora specific patches in my packages...
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| 19:51 | vagrantc, it seems wrong for any system thing to depend on /root
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> warren: committing something upstream that could be potentially disruptive to other distros just because you have a release doesn't seem fair.
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| 19:51 | <warren> vagrantc, to be fair, your patch isn't disruptive to other distros.
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| 19:51 | vagrantc, removing -ac except in LDM_DIRECTX produces the same behavior as the past ldm.
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> ah, you're just applying that patch ...
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| 19:52 | <warren> yeah
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| 19:52 | beyond that I'm proposing that we move the .Xauthority file
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| 19:52 | because /root seems wrong
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| 19:52 | and it doesn't work here at all
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| 19:52 | vagrantc, also, what is supposed to happen if you have more than one SCREEN_XX specify ldm?
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> xauthority in /root seems *exactly* right if ldm is running as root.
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| 19:53 | though i think we should not be running as root...
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| 19:53 | <warren> gdm running as root doesn't put it there
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> warren: i've used multiple ldm sessions on a single thin client
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| 19:53 | <warren> vagrantc, if each ldm is sharing the same .Xauthority then it isn't independent...
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| 19:54 | <vagrantc> well, at any rate, we clearly need a better long-term fix with all this stuff. i don't like the idea of committing that patch upstream- for me it's just a quick fix.
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| 19:55 | warren: my patch basically makes it not really use .Xauthority at all ...
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| 19:55 | <warren> vagrantc, in the past it didn't use .Xauthority either
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> .Xauthority is just an empty file, and ssh notices that and generates some sort of xauth data on the fly
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| 19:55 | warren: correct.
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| 19:56 | <warren> If you are running more than one ldm on the same system, which is strange, it should use independent .Xauthority files
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| 19:56 | other things that use xauth generate one with a non-hardcoded name in such cases
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> sounds reasonable.
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| 19:56 | when we get back to actually using the .Xauthority files, sounds good to me.
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| 19:57 | but i wouldn't make patches to that effect until it's actually using .Xauthority files ...
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| 19:57 | <warren> right, I don't need this overnight
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| 19:57 | yeah
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| 19:57 | I'm only adding your patch for now
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| 19:57 | because it really isn't worse than previous
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> it is an improvement, but i'm not sure it isn't still a lurking security flaw.
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| 19:58 | <warren> LDM_DIRECTX is a lurking security flaw =)
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> mainly, i'm not sure what that on-the-fly xauth data actually is
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| 19:58 | that's always been a known security flaw
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| 19:59 | <warren> "I can sniff your session" is different from "I can manipulate your session"
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| 19:59 | with -ac you can move someone's mouse, take screenshots, etc.
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> sure sure.
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| 19:59 | <warren> well, with X11 trusted forwarding the ssh server can do that too
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> but what i'm not sure is, is the fake xauth data generated predictible in such a way that it wouldn't be much harder than with -ac ... granted, -ac makes it absolutely trivial ... but i'm nto sure the fake xauth data is very secure.
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| 20:00 | <warren> GNOME is broken in various ways and many apps just crash without X11 trusted forwarding
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| 20:00 | true
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> we don't even have that option specified in our sshd_config
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| 20:01 | so we're using whatever openssh uses by default
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| 20:01 | and i've used GNOME on many occasions
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| 20:01 | <warren> no
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| 20:01 | ssh_config
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| 20:01 | vagrantc, either that or your openssh is older than before they made a distinction between the two
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| 20:02 | vagrantc, does ssh -X and -Y exist in man ssh?
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> warren: ForwardX11Trusted is commented out, so we're using whatever openssh's default is.
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| 20:02 | warren: yes, both -X and -Y exist.
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| 20:02 | <warren> OK, but I'm 100% certain that -Y is needed
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> it's certainly not needed on debian.
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| 20:03 | <warren> Are you sure it isnt' enabled by something else?
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> -Y ?
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| 20:03 | what else could enable it
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| 20:03 | ?
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| 20:03 | <warren> it could be built into the binary
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> or is the default to "yes" ... that i'
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| 20:03 | m not sure of
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| 20:04 | basically, i don't really want to spend any more time talking about it... seems like a few minutes of experimentation can answer these questions.
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| 20:04 | <warren> There is a reason why Fedora, RHEL and SuSE all enable it by default
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| 20:04 | <vagrantc> it's commented out, but the comment does say "yes" ... so maybe it is somehow the default ...
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| 20:04 | <warren> For a while Fedora had it disabled by default and we had tons of people complain when -X stopped working as they expected.
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> warren: ok. debian does set "ForwardX11Truested yes" by default ... it's built into the binary.
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| 20:08 | <warren> there we go
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> warren: so -Y is basically just like -X, except it sets ForwardX11Trusted ?
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| 20:08 | <warren> yes
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| 20:08 | -ac would be a superset of permissions granted by -Y =)
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 20:09 | i wish i had been more adamant about "-ac" being a security risk back in 2005.
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| 20:09 | <warren> You KNEW about it?
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| 20:10 | Any Ubuntu people here?
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| 20:10 | <vagrantc> well, i had my suspicions is was a bad idea, and mentioned it, and was brushed off.
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| 20:10 | <warren> I'm trying to understand upstart
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> i had no idea just how bad "-ac" really was.
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| 20:12 | so i wasn't able to prove just exactly what badness it caused.
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| 20:18 | subsume has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:19 | <subsume> So in attempting to create an LTSP environment on my edubuntu server I somehow funked the internet connection on all my clients.
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| 20:19 | If someone could help me debug, that'd be great.
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| 20:19 | I already flushed my iptables--nothing.
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| 20:20 | they all connect fine to the LAN but the WAN is unavailable to all but the server machine.;
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| 20:20 | <mnemoc> .oO( no greetings? )o
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| 20:21 | <subsume> Seems a bit late and contrived if I did that now... =)
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| 21:57 | <warren> vagrantc, why do we launch screen sessions from screen_sessions instead of /etc/inittab or /etc/event.d?
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| 21:58 | <vagrantc> warren: screen_sessions is a wrapper used to launch the screen session ... in ltsp 4.x, it was used in /etc/inittab
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| 21:59 | if verifies that the SCREEN_NN option specified is valid and allows for /etc/ltsp/screen.d to override /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d ...
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| 22:00 | i don't think any screen scripts need to ". /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_config", as all those environment variables are exported and will be available ...
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| 22:01 | <warren> oh that's right, I have to add /etc/ltsp/screen.d
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> why add it?
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| 22:01 | <warren> it isn't packaged
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| 22:01 | it shouldn't be?
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| 22:01 | well, I guess it isn't necessary...
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> well, nothing should go in it by default
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| 22:01 | <warren> :q
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> it's only there for the admin to override the default screen scripts, or add custom ones
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| 22:03 | <warren> custom ones could be packaged...
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> but those probably should go in /usr/share, no?
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| 22:04 | unless they're custom ones overriding existing ones
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| 22:04 | then i guess they'd have to go in /etc
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| 22:05 | <warren> vagrantc, you have any idea why it launches X with -noreset?
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| 22:05 | vagrantc, what happens when the last client disconnects?
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> warren: typically, it restarts anyways ... so not sure why -noreset is passed.
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| 22:07 | might have been an attempt to just re-display the greeter without restarting X that just never got implemented
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| 22:07 | although gadi had some patches for that.
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| 22:07 | <warren> if ldm crashes I don't know what will happen here
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> warren: in my experience, when ldm crashes the X server dies.
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| 22:10 | <warren> vagrantc, if ldm crashes then the last client disconnects, and the X server is supposed to sit there doing nothing.
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| 22:10 | by default -reset is the behavior where it tries to restart the X server without launching X again
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| 22:10 | that behavior is broken
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| 22:10 | <vagrantc> well, experiment with it.
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| 22:10 | <warren> which is why ajax told me to use -terminate always
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| 22:11 | they're ripping out -reset soon
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| 22:11 | it is unsupportable
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| 22:21 | <vagrantc> warren: after reading that URL you posted, i'm going to play with "ForwardX11Trusted no" ... :)
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| 22:21 | <warren> good luck
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| 22:21 | it is a waste of time I'm assuring you =)
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| 22:21 | perhaps some less complicated apps will work
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| 22:39 | <vagrantc> warren: well, all done wastng my time already. yup. still breaks everything.
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| 22:39 | <warren> good
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| 22:40 | hm
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| 22:40 | it does seem to restart X when you log out of a desktop session
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| 22:40 | so -noreset isn't doing anything
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| 22:40 | <boog> join #linuxactionshow
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| 22:40 | sorry about that one...
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| 22:40 | <warren> Is there something LTSP related there?
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| 22:40 | or are you spamming?
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| 22:41 | * vagrantc guessing a missing / typo | |
| 22:41 | <warren> oh
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| 22:41 | <boog> neither..trying to get xchat to join a different channel too.
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| 23:44 | <LTSP> Hi. Where is the "rootserver" IP address listed in client boot process stored? Can it be changed? I have clients hanging on a new ltsp installation.
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| 23:46 | They stop at the busybox prompt, with errors about cannot find filesystem /sbin/init. I think it's because the "rootserver" IP a few lines prior to the error points to my router, not the ltsp installation (on xubuntu 7.10). Matched its dhcpd-conf file to a prior 6.10 working installation (same hardware on server+clients) & turned authoritative command on/off.
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