IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 December 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:48 | <alkisg> !learn fat-passwd as `to allow fat client users to change their password, install the usermode page both in the server and in the chroot, and put these in lts.conf: REMOTE_APPS=True, RCFILE_01="sed 's,^Exec=,Exec=ltsp-remoteapps ,' -i /usr/share/applications/redhat-userinfo.desktop", RCFILE_02="sed 's,^Exec=,Exec=ltsp-remoteapps ,' -i /usr/share/applications/redhat-userpasswd.desktop"`
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| 03:48 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 03:49 | <alkisg> !learn fat-passwd as `to allow fat client users to change their password, install the usermode package both in the server and in the chroot, and put these in lts.conf: REMOTE_APPS=True, RCFILE_01="sed 's,^Exec=,Exec=ltsp-remoteapps ,' -i /usr/share/applications/redhat-userinfo.desktop", RCFILE_02="sed 's,^Exec=,Exec=ltsp-remoteapps ,' -i /usr/share/applications/redhat-userpasswd.desktop"`
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| 03:49 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 03:54 | <alkisg> vagrantc: hi, I got my LTSP Trusty installation up and running, do you want us to continue with the cdpinger removal?
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| 04:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sounds fun! :)
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| 04:17 | <alkisg> Nice! Are you going to use udisks for debian, or should I try to locate the udev logic that ubuntu uses instead?
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| 04:17 | I'm afraid that ubuntu might be _calling_ udisks at some point from some udev rule anyways...
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| 04:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, i got it working without udisks with a modified udev rule, so i figured just install different udev rules on debian
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| 04:18 | <alkisg> Ah, sure, that sounds fine!
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| 04:18 | Will you submit a revised patch in the bug report?
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| 04:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i think the latest patch is what's needed on debian, just need to do packaging to make it conditional at build time or run time
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| 04:20 | or some combination thereof
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| 04:21 | alkisg: probably can't get it done today, but maybe in the next couple days
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| 04:21 | alkisg: i am cuurious about udisks being called from ubuntu udev rules, though
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| 04:22 | alkisg: i mean, if you *can* figure out a cleaner option that keeps the debian/ubuntu diff smaller, that'd be great.
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| 04:23 | <alkisg> Hmmm I'll try, but I think it was quite confusing and needed a lot of time, so if we have something quick that works, I'd prefer to postpone it and focus on other more important things first (more important than minimizing the .diff, that is), like the user-owned ssh socket
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| 04:24 | About ltsp-genmenu, I propose that we use server-side caching for the icons, e.g. to expand all of the icons in /usr/share/applications it currently needs 30 secs...
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| 04:27 | <vagrantc> sure sure
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| 04:27 | no attachment to ltsp-genmenu's implementation
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| 04:28 | <alkisg> vagrantc: do we still want the login server to only have ssh installed as a requirement? No ltsp package at all?
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| 04:28 | <alkisg> Or could we at some point require e.g. the ldm-server package?
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| 04:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we already don't support a lot of features without server-side stuff
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| 04:29 | <alkisg> Ah, cool. So we can have a service that caches stuff in /var/cache...
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| 04:29 | <vagrantc> i've never been so convinced of the importance of being able to log into servers without an ltsp related packages installed...
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| 04:30 | i mean, for basic functionality, sure, ssh and a window manager should ideally still work...
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| 04:30 | but if that makes everything else too complicated, i'd rather have the other features
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| 04:30 | <alkisg> Thanks for that! :)
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| 04:30 | <vagrantc> although it does make backports more important
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| 04:31 | alkisg: i would really want server-side requirements to be a stable implementation to minimize the need for server-side backports
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| 04:31 | or at least, the client-server interaction could be stable, even if under the hood it's a bit different
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| 04:32 | <alkisg> I think ltspd would help a lot there, once it replaces ldm-server...
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| 04:33 | It could even be a separate package from ltsp (like ldm-server is now), and it could contain anything that's needed from a server to allow ltsp clients to log in with all the features
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| 04:34 | <vagrantc> yeah, i haven't liked that ltsp-server is a dependency to use localapps, for example
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| 04:34 | i've typically set up a separate root server from the application server
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| 04:35 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I don't remember if I asked you previously, do you think it would be a security issue to pass $LDM_PASSWORD to the environment of shell scripts (as long as they don't use it in command lines, of course...)?
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| 04:35 | <vagrantc> eeeyk!
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| 04:35 | <alkisg> :D
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| 04:36 | Haha
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| 04:36 | Why do you think it's a security issue?
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| 04:36 | <vagrantc> my gut tells me so.
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| 04:37 | i don't have specifics
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| 04:37 | <alkisg> And if they're .c files, it's ok?
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| 04:38 | <vagrantc> there are numerous issues with security in environment variables in shell... badly written code is badly written code ... but i think there is a difference
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| 04:38 | which, i know, isn't very specific...
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| 04:39 | * alkisg imagined using `expect` to open the user-owned ssh socket from shell, or `crypt` to update /etc/shadow with the user's password's md5sum... | |
| 04:40 | <alkisg> OK, so I'll have to look into ssh.c if I want to make the socket user-owned
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| 04:40 | A last question there...
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| 04:40 | <vagrantc> because we need to cache the password to do that?
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| 04:40 | * vagrantc wonders how pam_sshauth does it... | |
| 04:40 | <alkisg> I just didn't want to do those in .c, I preferred to do it from shell scripts
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| 04:41 | Another question there.. We don't rely on the UID/GID of the local user being the same as the server user
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| 04:41 | <vagrantc> pam_sshauth opens a ssh connection as root, and then gets a bunch of info, and then opens it as user
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| 04:41 | alkisg: it does result in problems with UID/GID mismatches, doesn't it?
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| 04:42 | <alkisg> What if we had an ldm user instead, and opened the socket with its uid/gid, and then usermod'ed its name to that of the logged in user?
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| 04:42 | <vagrantc> how does sshfs handle switches?
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| 04:42 | <alkisg> vagrantc: with sshfs no, with named-based mapping nfs no, I don't know if nfs ever does uid mapping
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| 04:42 | <vagrantc> hmmm.
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| 04:43 | <alkisg> If the ldm-user logic doesn't hit into a wall anywhere, we could even run X as non-root
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| 04:43 | <vagrantc> i've definitely had issues with NFS setups where the uid/gid stuff didn't match
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| 04:47 | * alkisg wonders if it's possible to chown an ssh socket after it's created and still have it working | |
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| 05:40 | <alkisg> Ah, no need, we can just merge two sockets together, one user-owned and the root-owned
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| 05:40 | * alkisg checks at mkfifo etc... | |
| 05:42 | <vagrantc> whoah
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| 05:48 | <alkisg> More in a while, bbiab :)
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: is there any reason not to delete the getty service on tty1 by default, since local login requires manual configuration anyway?
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| 07:58 | !nbd-client
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| 07:58 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 08:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i suppose not...
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| 08:01 | * vagrantc clings to the poor getty | |
| 08:01 | * alkisg wants to see if that solves the plymouth message about tty1... | |
| 08:02 | * vagrantc sleeps | |
| 08:02 | <alkisg> goodnight!
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| 08:03 | Ouch the Trusty initrd is 6 mb larger...
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| 10:34 | <khildin_sn> !seen alkisg
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| 10:34 | <ltsp> alkisg was last seen in #ltsp 2 hours, 30 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <alkisg> Ouch the Trusty initrd is 6 mb larger...
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| 10:34 | <khildin_sn> !seen andygreybeal
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| 10:34 | <ltsp> I have not seen andygreybeal.
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| 10:35 | <khildin_sn> !seen andygraybeal
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| 10:35 | <ltsp> andygraybeal was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 19 hours, 41 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <andygraybeal> i have no idea about wireless internet of that :)
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| 10:46 | <Hyperbyte> !seen ltsp`
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| 10:46 | <ltsp> I have not seen ltsp`.
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| 10:46 | <Hyperbyte> !seen the light
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| 10:46 | <ltsp> (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. <nick> may contain * as a wildcard.
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| 10:47 | <Hyperbyte> Hah
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> !seen the light
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| 12:22 | <ltsp> I have not seen the light.
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: ^
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| 12:45 | <khildin_sn> hi alkisg .... :)
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| 12:47 | I will try Userfull to throw out the multipoint server
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| 12:49 | at least I will have an 'all edubuntu' environment with that...
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| 12:50 | * alkisg hopes userful is compatible with that specific equipment and doesn't need something else... | |
| 12:50 | <khildin_sn> next step is using other thin clients (with NIC instead only USB)
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| 12:50 | yes... I looked it up... they are HP T150 clients... and are on the list of userful
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| 12:52 | still shocked that 'they' donated such a NON scalable solution... :(
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| 12:53 | completely ignorant about the local situation....
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| 12:53 | giving 6 clients while there are classes of 30-50 students..... *bangs head against the wall*
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| 16:41 | <khildin_sn> andygraybeal, hows life ... :)
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| 16:43 | I am going to give userful a shot... the clients appear to be HP T150's and are supported by usrful version 4.1 and up....
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| 17:25 | <andygraybeal> khildin_sn, we got the kid home... my lady had a drug test and it showed up for barbituates and tricyclen ... downers and uppers!!!!
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| 17:25 | they contacted children services
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| 17:25 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 17:25 | <andygraybeal> anyway she isn't on drugs.
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| 17:25 | i guess it's just a false positive and they have to retest her or something
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| 17:26 | but it's not even his first 24 hours home.
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| 17:28 | it's weird
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> certainly a strange thing to see on #ltsp first thing in the monring :P
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| 17:35 | <andygraybeal> yea sorry
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| 17:35 | totlaly off topic
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| 17:36 | how is life in africa khildin_sn?
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| 17:36 | hp t150.. i'm gonna look it up
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| 17:36 | i'm happy to hear userful will work with them! sounds very promising
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| 17:37 | <cliebow> andygraybeal, what a crock
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| 17:37 | <andygraybeal> yea, he's 12 days old!!!! :)
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| 17:38 | my first!!
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| 17:39 | <edwinosantos> hello everyone
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| 17:39 | <cliebow> Congratulations!!..i had my three and am working on thirds grandchild
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| 17:39 | <andygraybeal> i hope to live to see that!
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| 17:39 | <edwinosantos> does anybody here has arm ltsp clients working?
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| 17:39 | <andygraybeal> congrats to you too :)
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| 17:39 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: a few proof-of-concepts...
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| 17:40 | <edwinosantos> my english is not that good . what do you mean with that?
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| 17:41 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: kind of working
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| 17:41 | edwinosantos: but maybe with issues or problems
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| 17:41 | <edwinosantos> ohhhhh
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| 17:42 | * vagrantc has been looking for a decent arm-based thin client for ages | |
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| 17:43 | <khildin_sn> <- back
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| 17:43 | hi andygraybeal
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| 17:43 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: do you have something in particular?
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| 17:44 | <edwinosantos> I am working on a really big project
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| 17:44 | <edwinosantos> and it crossed my eyes here arm thin clients
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| 17:45 | <khildin_sn> andygraybeal, gratz with your son!
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| 17:45 | <edwinosantos> I read something on wyse.com their t10 model. they talk very good about the model. but they just talk about windows and cytrix etc etc
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| 17:45 | price for those clients are way cheaper than a x86 thin client
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| 17:45 | <khildin_sn> edwinosantos, you already decided on the client to use?
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| 17:46 | <andygraybeal> khildin_sn, those t150 cost $120 last year? i can get used lenovo p4 for 50 bucks w/o harddrive :)
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| 17:46 | but nevermind, the power advantave of the t150.. so i lose.
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| 17:46 | <khildin_sn> andygraybeal, I can get P4's for nothing....
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| 17:46 | but shipping is a bitch
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| 17:46 | <edwinosantos> I am doing some talk with a company in china
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| 17:47 | <khildin_sn> andygraybeal, I am downloading userful image now...
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| 17:47 | <edwinosantos> amd t40n , no wifi, no ssd 127 us
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| 17:47 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: it is possible, but it may be a lot of work to get working well.
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| 17:47 | <khildin_sn> 2GB on a 100Kb line..... argggggggggggggggggggg
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| 17:47 | already busy whole day
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| 17:48 | if all goes ok the DL is ready in 25 minutes
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| 17:48 | <edwinosantos> got it
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: for that price, you could get a wandboard quad which has decent support ...
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| 17:48 | <andygraybeal> userful is 2gb!!!!!?
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: well, a little more expensive
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| 17:48 | <khildin_sn> yeah... the full install
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| 17:49 | <edwinosantos> t.client is 2 Gb RAM
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| 17:49 | <khildin_sn> I also grabbed the package that runs on top of ubuntu.... that way less
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| 17:49 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: a link to the client you're looking at?
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| 17:49 | <khildin_sn> edwinosantos, now you are talking... :) must fly!
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| 17:49 | what price?
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| 17:49 | <edwinosantos> 127
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| 17:49 | <khildin_sn> I'd love to ditch those T150's USB clients
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| 17:50 | <edwinosantos> hold on
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| 17:50 | <khildin_sn> edwinosantos, those clients are diskless as well?
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| 17:51 | or have a flashcard?
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| 17:51 | <edwinosantos> yeap no wifi , no ssd
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| 17:51 | I requested that
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| 17:51 | <khildin_sn> so no option to use a fat client image with LTSP?
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| 17:51 | <edwinosantos> vagrant have no link sales representative sent me the specs and picture
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| 17:52 | <khildin_sn> they don't want to sell anything then?.... *laughs*
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| 17:52 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: hard to know how easy it would be too support
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| 17:52 | <khildin_sn> edwinosantos, ask a sample first... ;)
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| 17:52 | <edwinosantos> are you asking me about the arm clients?
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| 17:52 | sure man
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| 17:54 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: if the vendor doesn't support the arm support in the linux kernel, it will probably be hard to support LTSP.
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| 17:54 | arm based boards are often very poorly supported
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| 17:55 | <edwinosantos> http://www.smartcloud-china.com/
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| 17:55 | I will stay with amd t40N then
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> but some boards are well supported... so it really depend on the hardware
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| 17:57 | <edwinosantos> http://www.smartcloud-china.com/index.php?app=prot&act=show&cat=16&id=243
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| 17:57 | <khildin_sn> did you have a look at igel? I heard some good stories
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| 18:05 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: sounds like pretty nice specs... wonder what the proc is based on
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| 18:06 | <edwinosantos> amd t40N
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| 18:07 | <khildin_sn> wow T40N?.... that's what I have in my homeserver.... (HP microserver)
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| 18:08 | <khildin_sn> isn't that a bit heavy for a TC?
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| 18:09 | <vagrantc> doesn't hurt to be able to do fatclients or localapps ...
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| 18:10 | and with arm, the power consumption is usually so low...
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| 18:10 | <khildin_sn> true... but then still.... I run Zentyal server with the whole lot on that
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| 18:10 | <vagrantc> that doesn't look like an arm processor, though.
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| 18:11 | <edwinosantos> for school labs what would u guys recommend'?
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| 18:11 | what specs
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| 18:12 | <vagrantc> the t40n
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| 18:12 | edwinosantos: it really depends on what they're doing
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| 18:12 | <khildin_sn> looks like x86 to me....
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| 18:13 | if you need some local apps (if your server has limited resources) get enough memory on the TC and not too little proc power...
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| 18:13 | like 1Ghz proc and 1 GB memory should be sufficient...
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| 18:14 | <edwinosantos> excelent
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| 18:14 | <khildin_sn> and a small SSD of 8 or 16GB...
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> ssd?
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| 18:14 | <khildin_sn> or flashcard
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> what do you need that for with LTSP?
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| 18:15 | <khildin_sn> local apps?...
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| 18:15 | or am I mixing something?
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> localapps don't use local disks
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| 18:15 | <khildin_sn> ok my bad
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> not typically
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| 18:16 | thin clients, fat clients, localapps ... all use storage on the server by default.
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| 18:17 | <edwinosantos> LTSP Rulessssss man
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| 18:17 | really in love with this technology
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| 18:18 | is there a software around that makes adding user easy fro school staff?
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| 18:19 | <vagrantc> you just add the users to the server install.
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| 18:20 | <khildin_sn> I am off... DL has finished
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| 18:20 | <edwinosantos> what about backing up a 500 students
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| 18:20 | users
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| 18:20 | <edwinosantos> and loading in a new install thats easy too right
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> that's not LTSP specific
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| 18:21 | <edwinosantos> yeap you are right
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| 18:21 | hehehehe
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> other than LTSP tends to actually have many users on a single machine :)
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| 18:22 | edwinosantos: LTSP fat clients might be better if you have a lot of people using it at once
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| 18:24 | <edwinosantos> how many is a lot ?
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| 18:24 | in a 8 Gb quad core server
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| 18:25 | <vagrantc> edwinosantos: how many clients do you plan to have?
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| 18:25 | <edwinosantos> 30-50
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| 18:25 | <edwinosantos> I will do some local apps too
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> depending on what they're doing, that might not be enoughh
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| 18:26 | <edwinosantos> I was even thinking in fat clients all the way
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> localapps could help, although often fat clients are simpler if you have the client hardware
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| 18:26 | <edwinosantos> 2 Gb Ram helps?
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> yeaah, 2GB of ram in the thin clients should be pretty good.
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| 18:27 | although applications these days eat a lot of ram :(
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| 18:29 | <edwinosantos> standard edubuntu apps won't hurt that much?
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| 18:31 | libreoffice and such
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> firefox can be brutal
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| 18:33 | <edwinosantos> yeah have experienced that hehehe
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| 18:33 | I have a hp thin client 512 Mb RAM and it doesn't run smooth on youtube
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> many apps assume things like swap partitions and thus use ram wastefully
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| 18:35 | <edwinosantos> would you say that using swap in thin clients helps?
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> !flash
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| 18:36 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> yeah,, it can help
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> Flash on thin clients is a special case :)
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> especially bad.
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| 18:39 | <edwinosantos> if you could do a no-to-do list for ltsp development what would that be
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| 18:39 | <vagrantc> what not to do with LTSP clients?
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| 18:40 | <edwinosantos> yeah
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> for thin clients, any multimedia is generally a bad thing.
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| 18:42 | that's why fatclients and localapps are so important
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| 18:48 | <edwinosantos> excelent
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