IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 May 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 10:45 | <PMantis> hi guys!
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| 10:45 | You know, the link in the topic is bad... no wiki topic.
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| 10:47 | Hmmm, weird.
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| 10:47 | When I click on the link, it takes me to: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/viewauth/Ltsp/Downloads
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| 12:00 | ChanServ sets mode: +o jammcq | |
| 12:01 | jammcq changes topic to "LTSP-5.0 is the current version that you should be using. Especially if you are new to LTSP. Check out Ubuntu and Debian for awesome integration. Or, go to the LTSP Download page at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DownLoads" | |
| 12:02 | <jammcq> ah, much better :)
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| 12:02 | <PMantis> Works now
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| 12:03 | <jammcq> thanks PMantis, odd that it's taken a month for anybody to notice that little problem
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| 12:05 | <PMantis> I'm excited about Dell's new Ubuntu offer... tempted to get a new laptop now.
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| 12:08 | * jammcq is tempted to by the cheap laptop. kidz need a new one, and that's a good way to go | |
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| 14:10 | <vagrantc> Burgundavia: buenas tardes
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| 14:11 | <Burgundavia> hey vagrantc
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| 14:27 | fastTalker has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:28 | <fastTalker> has anyone boot from an intel gigabit nic
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> does it support PXE ?
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| 14:31 | <fastTalker> yes
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| 14:31 | <vagrantc> you having trouble getting it to work?
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| 14:32 | <fastTalker> yes i get a kernel panic when it is booting
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| 14:32 | ...because it cannot detect my nic
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> ah, well.
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| 14:32 | fastTalker: what distro?
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| 14:32 | <fastTalker> debian
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> ltsp version?
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| 14:35 | <fastTalker> 4.2
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 14:35 | i'm clueless on 4.2 ...
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| 14:35 | <jammcq> what kind of nic ?
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| 14:36 | <fastTalker> it's onboard 82573v
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| 14:36 | intel
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| 14:37 | i have to manually compile the e1000 module for debian but i am not sure how to do that for ltsp
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| 14:37 | <jammcq> e1000 should be no problem, I think it's already in the ltsp kernel
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| 14:38 | <vagrantc> what version of debian you running?
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| 14:38 | <fastTalker> testing
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| 14:38 | <vagrantc> e1000 has been in standard debian kernels since sarge, i thought ...
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| 14:38 | <jammcq> yeah, e1000 is there already. so, maybe you just need to tell the kernel to use it
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> fastTalker: would you consider trying ltsp5 in debian?
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| 14:39 | <jammcq> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/KernelOptions
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| 14:39 | read that page, for info about how to tell it which driver to use
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| 14:39 | * jammcq watches vagrantc shift into sales mode :) | |
| 14:40 | * vagrantc looks at feet | |
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> jammcq: you're the one who set the topic :)
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| 14:41 | the topic that begins with "LTSP-5.0 is the current version that you should be using."
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| 14:41 | <jammcq> yeah, that was me
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| 14:43 | <vagrantc> jammcq: hey, howzabout updating some tarballs? :)
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| 14:44 | <jammcq> yeah, I should definately do that. maybe this weekend would be a good time
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| 14:44 | it's not like it's hard to do
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| 14:44 | <vagrantc> apt-get update
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| 14:44 | apt-get upgrade
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| 14:44 | jammcq: though you should also grab ltspfsd from lenny (etch+1)
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| 14:45 | <jammcq> i'm thinking that a complete rebuild is needed for ubuntu
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> jammcq: and maybe grab the ltsp packages from lenny.
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| 14:45 | * vagrantc is wearing the debian hat | |
| 14:45 | <jammcq> something about whether the chroot was built with the most current ltsp-build-client
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| 14:45 | vagrantc: can I just build a lenny box, and install ltsp on that, and then tar up that chroot ?
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> jammcq: if you want to maintain security updates for all the lenny packages ...
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| 14:46 | <fastTalker> adding NIC=e1000 as a kernel parameter fixed it
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| 14:46 | <jammcq> fastTalker: cool, glad to hear it helped
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| 14:46 | <fastTalker> i was trying to use insmod=e1000
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| 14:46 | thanks
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> jammcq: what might be a good idea is to do an etch tarball + newer versions of ltsp-specific stuff
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| 14:47 | <jammcq> how do I do that?
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> well, the process could be improved ... but at the moment i'd say build an etch tarball, add an entry to sources.list for lenny, and then upgrade individual packages ...
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| 14:48 | ldm ltspfsd ltsp-client
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| 14:49 | * jammcq is confused. are you saying I should start with etch, and add *some* things from lenny? | |
| 14:49 | <vagrantc> exactly
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| 14:49 | seeing as ltspfsd isn't in etch at all ... and there's already some bugfixes for ltsp-client
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| 14:50 | jammcq: that way, the only moving target is the ltsp stuff. everything else is still stable and security-supported.
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| 14:51 | jammcq: i could set up an apt repository with etch backports if you'd like.
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| 14:51 | <jammcq> but.... is that really a good solution for us to provide a stable ltsp chroot for people to test out on other distros?
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| 14:52 | why not just a bone-stock etch ltsp ?
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| 14:52 | if they want newer things, they could build their own debian server
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| 14:52 | <vagrantc> because it doesn't include ltspfs
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| 14:52 | <jammcq> what is debian using server-side for ltspfs ?
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| 14:52 | <vagrantc> and there's some stupid bugs we weren't able to fix in time for release
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| 14:52 | <jammcq> still lbus ?
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> debian etch has no support for ltspfs without grabbing packages from lenny
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| 14:53 | <jammcq> right, but what is it using server-side, to handle local devices?
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| 14:53 | lenny that is
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> but it works with the ltspfs* packages in lenny
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| 14:54 | i repackaged the ubuntu ltspfs for debian
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| 14:54 | <jammcq> ok, lets say that someone wants to take our "etch chroot +lenny ltspfs" tarball, and install that on his fedora core 7 server. what else would he need to install on that fc7 box to make local devices work?
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| 14:55 | <vagrantc> jammcq: he'd need to use the ubuntu/debian implementation of ltspfs, i think.
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| 14:55 | <jammcq> ummm, i'm thinking that's probably not gonna be easy on a fc7 box
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| 14:56 | <vagrantc> i've been saying that for months
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| 14:56 | <jammcq> if we have no tarballs containing those bits, the guy is gonna be in trouble
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| 14:56 | so, if that's the case, then what's the point in supplying lenny-ltspfs stuff?
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| 14:57 | <Burgundavia> vagrantc: are we talking upstream responsibilities again?
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> Burgundavia: indeed we are!
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| 14:58 | <jammcq> if you wanna have the "upstream responsibilities" talk, we can do that, but it makes no sense to worry about lenny ltspfs bits until we resolve that. or am I just confused?
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| 14:58 | <vagrantc> jammcq: it *might* cause someone to do the task of porting the packaging to an rpm based system who wasn't ambitious enough to port ltsp5 to rpm based systems?
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| 14:58 | <PMantis> uh-oh, jammcq has ops, behave!
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| 14:58 | <vagrantc> and then that's one step out of the way.
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| 14:59 | * jammcq thinks the more likely outcome is someone will go through the time and trouble of installing the tarball, thinking they've got something pretty cool, only to find out they don't have local devices | |
| 14:59 | <Burgundavia> if the tarball allowing local devices was in the same location, it wouldn't be a big problem
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| 14:59 | <PMantis> So, what's the state of LTSP 5.0 with Ubuntu 7.04 now... I've been out of the loop lately.
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> the tarball is also a lot easier to install.
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| 15:00 | <jammcq> with lenny and Ubuntu both using the same ltspfs, is it safe to assume that if someone DOES do the needful, by creating the ltspfs-server stuff for their distro, it should work for both the Ubuntu and the debian tarballs ?
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> PMantis: other than some slowness complains, it works.
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| 15:01 | jammcq: probably hopefully?
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| 15:01 | <jammcq> well, that's a *good* thing then
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> jammcq: the only thing i'm not sure is if there will be conflicts with different fuse implementations
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| 15:01 | <jammcq> hopefully fuse between debian and ubuntu are the same
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> i haven't actually tried it, but that would be something good to find out
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| 15:02 | but i was more thinking fuse between debian, ubuntu and FOO were the same
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| 15:02 | <PMantis> Ahh, so that means local-dev on Feisty works...
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| 15:02 | <jammcq> actually, it's not like a FUSE protocol
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| 15:02 | <Burgundavia> might it make sense to declare a minimum FUSE version?
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| 15:02 | <jammcq> it's the LTSPFS protocol that needs to be the same
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| 15:02 | and that should be easy to control
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| 15:03 | fuse is just the framework that supports LTSPFS
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| 15:03 | * vagrantc doesn't know enough about FUSE to really know if there will be compatibility concerns but was just raising the issue so that others who have a clue can think about it | |
| 15:04 | <PMantis> Scotty did some nice work there (likely other contributors by now though)
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> to me, fuse is black magic and i'm happy it tends to work so well
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| 15:06 | <jammcq> it's just some magic goo that exposes the VFS to userspace processes
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| 15:06 | it's elegant in its simplicity
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| 15:06 | or simple in its elegance
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| 15:06 | one of those
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| 15:08 | <vagrantc> so, anyways ... my thought regarding the tarballs, is that it should contain the most current ltsp stuff available that's compatible with the distro in question ... that's why i suggest making an etch tarball with a few ltsp-specific packages from debian
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| 15:08 | debian lenny
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| 15:08 | * jammcq had to become op, to fix the topic. now he doesn't know how to un-op himself | |
| 15:09 | <PMantis> jammcq: If you give me ops, I'll remove yours for you. ;)
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| 15:12 | <vagrantc> another reason the tarballs are useful is for cross-architecture support.
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| 15:12 | <jammcq> yes
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> at which point it would be useful to have ltspfs
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| 15:13 | <jammcq> I just wanna make sure the tarball is supportable. etch chroot with lenny ltspfs just worries me a bit
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| 15:13 | but you are the debian master. if you say it's the way to go, i'm which you
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> jammcq: well ... here's what i can do ... i can maintain a repository of backports such that you only need to add an --extra-mirror argument
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| 15:15 | <jammcq> seems like a good plan
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| 15:15 | I've got to run out for a while, i'll try to setup the new chroot when I get back
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| 15:15 | <vagrantc> jammcq: and i'll test that the packages work with etch before including them in the backports repository, so we're not just willy-nilly pulling stuff from lenny
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| 15:24 | <cliebow> and lenny is??
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| 15:24 | <vagrantc> etch+1
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| 15:27 | eeyk. i gotta go make food before they close the kitchen. which means no more entireweb for vagrant tonight.
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| 15:27 | morning, afternoon, and night all
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| 15:39 | <dem> jammcq: do you know what happened with the load balancing stuff?
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| 15:39 | somehow i got notification it got put on the program, then it got deleted...
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| 15:45 | <cliebow> jammcq:i hear there is a Brazilian restaurant opening that i cana see from the porch..
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| 15:51 | <dem> also jammcq can you tell me where the brazillian place is san francisco
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| 15:51 | <Burgundavia> dem: I know jorge has somebody working on it
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| 16:45 | <jammcq> hey kidz
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| 16:46 | dem, the brazilian place in SanFran is called Espetus, and it's on Market, right around 12th
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| 17:20 | <cliebow> http://espetus.com/
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| 17:20 | den:http://espetus.com/
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| 17:20 | <jammcq> yeah, cliebow knows
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| 17:21 | <cliebow> oh my gawd..
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| 17:21 | time to turn on the barbi...second best but..
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| 17:23 | <cliebow> leaves are out...internet is intermittent..
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| 17:41 | jammcq:i hear there is a Brazilian restaurant opening that i cana see from the porch..
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| 17:41 | <jammcq> wow
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| 17:46 | <PMantis> cliebow: You need a bigger antenna. :)
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| 17:46 | I hear Pringles makes a god one.
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| 17:46 | errr good
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| 17:47 | GTG
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| 18:23 | <cliebow> ill let you know if it meets expectations..
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| 20:14 | <spirit67> does anyone have experience with ltsp and external monitors?
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| 20:16 | laptops on docking stations in particular
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| 20:29 | <Rhez> Hey, I'm not here about ltsp, but I figured people here would know the most about what I need help with. my dvd-rom isnt working, and I need to boot a DVD OS installation disk. My only other source of a dvd-rom is in my laptop, is it possible to network boot the dvd from my laptop to my pc?
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| 20:37 | <spirit67> yes it is
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| 20:47 | <Rhez> spirit67 how would I go about doing that?
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| 20:59 | <Rhez> ??
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| 21:23 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 22:47 | <chupacabra> yo scotty
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| 22:47 | <sbalneav> Hey chup!
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| 22:47 | <chupacabra> hows trix?
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| 22:47 | <sbalneav> Not bad. Just sitting here doing some coding.
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| 22:48 | <chupacabra> you keeping those canucks in line? hehehe
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| 22:48 | <sbalneav> Yeppers!
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| 22:48 | How's things with you?
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| 22:48 | <chupacabra> im trying to corral these texicans
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| 22:48 | <sbalneav> I hear you're not supposed to mess with them :)
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| 22:49 | <chupacabra> I am one so I can get away with it. lol
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| 22:49 | cooking some chili... no beans
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| 22:49 | <sbalneav> All meat?
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| 22:50 | <chupacabra> yup and chilis and onions and tomatoes
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| 22:50 | and cumin
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| 22:51 | 1/2 feral hog. love that meat.
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| 22:51 | <sbalneav> Mmmm, onion.
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| 22:51 | cool.
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| 22:51 | <chupacabra> 12 kilos of meat
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| 22:51 | yall use metric right
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| 22:53 | <jammcq> hey kidz
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| 22:55 | <sbalneav> hey jammcq
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| 22:56 | <jammcq> what's happening?
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| 22:57 | <sbalneav> ugh, just trying to get an ssh to properly spawn in C.
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| 22:58 | ssh does a ton of whacky stuff with pty's, so I've had to use openpty, fork, login_tty, setsid, etc etc etc to get it to go.
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| 22:58 | <jammcq> hmm, how does python do it?
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| 22:59 | <sbalneav> I've got it spawning properly now, and can enter the password. So now I need to add in the stuff for doing select()'s to read/write the data.
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| 22:59 | same way, but of course, it's all done for you under the covers.
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| 22:59 | <chupacabra> but why?
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| 22:59 | <sbalneav> why what?
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| 23:00 | why spawn ssh?
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| 23:00 | <chupacabra> are you trying to get ssh to properly spawn in C?
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| 23:00 | <jammcq> do you think python did all that openpty, sesid stuff?
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| 23:00 | <sbalneav> chupacabra: We're re-implementing it in C because the python was too slow.
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| 23:01 | jammcq: Yep, I looked at the source code under the covers.
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| 23:01 | <jammcq> wow
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| 23:01 | <chupacabra> ahh makes sense now
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| 23:01 | <jammcq> is there a python module specifically for spawning ssh?
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| 23:01 | or does python always do that when spawning a sub-process?
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| 23:02 | <sbalneav> No, they use the "subprocess" module, which spawns progams with their own controlling TTY, and all io rerouted.
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| 23:02 | If you just do a regular fork/exec, it doesn't work.
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| 23:03 | ChanServ sets mode: -o jammcq | |
| 23:03 | <sbalneav> And a fork/exec/dup2 doesn't work either, because ssh does all kind of fancy stuff under to covers to FORCE you to enter the password on the tty.
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| 23:03 | <jammcq> ah
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| 23:04 | <sbalneav> I figured it all out by looking at both the source for the python subprocess module, and the source for the expect program :)
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| 23:04 | <jammcq> hmm, kinda nice not having the hood welded shut, eh?
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| 23:04 | <sbalneav> it's a lot of fancy code footwork. I've had a 3 day crash course in pty's :)
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| 23:04 | yep.
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| 23:04 | Always nice to be able to stand on the shoulders o giants.
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| 23:05 | <jammcq> I had to do the pty, setsid stuff when I wrote the code that launches the sessions from init, in ltsp-4.x
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| 23:05 | so, at one time, I knew how to do that
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| 23:08 | <chupacabra> beyond me
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