IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 May 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:02 | <Daggett> hello
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| 03:02 | I have troubles with sound and flash player 9
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| 03:02 | in firefox
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| 03:03 | already touched /tmp/.esd/socket and .esoud/socket
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| 04:28 | <envite> Hello all from Spain
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| 04:28 | Hola a todos desde España
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| 05:49 | <envite> does somebody used any kind of snmp systen with ltsp clients?
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| 05:53 | <ogra> should be trivial with ltsp5
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| 05:53 | just install an snmpd in the chroot and set up mrtg or some such to query the clients
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| 05:54 | <envite> I'm in LTSP 4.2
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| 05:54 | stil...
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| 05:54 | still...
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| 05:55 | company politics :(
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| 07:36 | <cliebow_> ogra: you be around for a while?
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| 07:46 | <mhterres> morning
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| 07:47 | <cliebow_> ho!
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| 07:52 | <envite> I found it
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| 08:03 | <cliebow_> anyone using blade servers?
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| 08:16 | <Blinny> j00?
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| 08:16 | Oops. Wrong channel.
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| 08:22 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:22 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:22 | <ogra> !s
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| 08:22 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:22 | <sbalneav> Hey ogra!
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| 08:22 | Was doing some fooling around last night, autoconfing the ldm-greeter.
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| 08:23 | <ogra> oh207, cool, did you get it working ?
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| 08:23 | <sbalneav> Should have it done today. I'll start up a branch on LP when I get it done.
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| 08:23 | Mostly, couple of gnome wrinkes I ran into.
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| 08:23 | <ogra> take your time, i'm dragged into classmate stuff for the next days
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| 08:24 | <sbalneav> Hey, quick question, if you know....
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| 08:24 | <ogra> shoot
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| 08:25 | <sbalneav> On this machine, it used to be a ide drive (hda), and I upgraded the disk to sata (sda), transfererred everything over with dd, etc. Worked fine. However, whenever I install a new kernel, it keeps setting root=/dev/hda1 on the linux command line in grub
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| 08:25 | know where the "default" is set?
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| 08:25 | <ogra> i think in menu.lst
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| 08:25 | there should bea kopts line
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| 08:25 | *be a
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| 08:25 | <sbalneav> There is, but if I run an update-grub, it gets RESET back to hda
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| 08:26 | so update-grub must pick it up from somewhere
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| 08:26 | <ogra> show me your menu-lst
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| 08:26 | <sbalneav> 1 sec
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| 08:26 | <ogra> s/\-/\./
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| 08:26 | <sep> sbalneav, look for a line saying # kopts= (yes it should be commented)
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| 08:27 | <ogra> shouldbe something like: # kopt=root=UUID=81fd944e-273f-4b5b-94c7-098ef0c983ad ro
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| 08:27 | <sbalneav> Really? So it picks up the COMMENTED line?
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| 08:27 | <ogra> likely yours has /dev/hda
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| 08:27 | yep
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| 08:27 | dont change the comments
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| 08:27 | <sbalneav> yeah, there is a commented /dev/hda line
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| 08:28 | <Guaraldo> good morning all...
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| 08:28 | <sep> sbalneav, edit that, and run update-grub
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| 08:28 | <ogra> sbalneav, sudo vol_id /dev/hda1
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| 08:28 | add the proper UUID value :)
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| 08:30 | <sbalneav> Wow, it's, uhhh, non intuitive that a COMMENTED line would be where it pics the default from :)
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| 08:30 | <ogra> yeah, grub is great, isnt it ?
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| 08:30 | <sbalneav> I just blew past all the comments without reading them
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| 08:30 | thx
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| 08:30 | <ogra> i think double ## are ignored
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| 08:31 | <sbalneav> yeah
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| 08:31 | Man, that's pretty crackful.
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| 08:31 | <cliebow_> sbalneav:pingo
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| 08:31 | <sep> sbalneav, but convinient tho. if someone had actauly read the comments they'd know'n what to do right away :)
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| 08:32 | <sbalneav> cliebow_: pongo
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| 08:32 | <cliebow_> heh..i had a call from someone today re blade servers..must be bidding on instasll for 100 schools in Atlanta..any exp with blade servere?
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| 08:32 | <sbalneav> sep: How's it convenient? In EVERY OTHER CONFIG FILE ON THE PLANET, you ignore comments. It runs completely counter to everything I've ever seen.
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| 08:33 | <ogra> sbalneav, i'm sure there are ons of bugs (or duplicates) about that :)
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| 08:34 | <sbalneav> typically, when I'm looking at configfiles, I do a grep -v "^#" confffile, so I can easily see what's "important" :) Ah well, just another fact that needs another neuron to store it :)
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| 08:35 | cliebow_: No, sorry, blade = expensive. Me = cheap :)
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| 08:35 | <ogra> right, its just to keep your brain trained
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| 08:35 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 08:35 | <cliebow_> heh..jim kronebush must be the guy to talk to ..
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| 08:35 | <sbalneav> I like the uuid one better, so I'll go with that.
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| 08:35 | <ogra> sounds exciting
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| 08:37 | <sep> sbalneav, should be fixed in grub2 btw http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=383282
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| 08:38 | <ogra> if grub2 every gets ready :)
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| 08:38 | *ever
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| 08:38 | <sep> :)
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| 08:38 | <sbalneav> heh, that worked.
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| 08:39 | thx, ogra, sep
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| 08:39 | brb, I'm gonna reboot just to test.
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| 08:44 | <sbalneav> That worked!
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| 08:44 | Perfect
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| 08:53 | <petre> morning all
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| 09:40 | <arie-rsa> ok i wish to install a ltsp server an start with 1 thin client
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| 09:40 | iam thinking about setting the server box up with debian 3.1 with the ltsp server stuff on it, that would be the first step correct?
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| 09:41 | <vagrantc> arie-rsa: if you're installing a new server, i'd strongly recomemnd using the current stable release, debian etch/4.0
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| 09:42 | arie-rsa: there's not much there yet, but see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 09:42 | <arie-rsa> ok i will install debian sarge 3.1 then dist up..
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| 09:42 | <vagrantc> why install sarge?
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| 09:42 | <arie-rsa> i have a burned iso ^^ and i hate burning
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> if you must ...
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| 09:43 | <arie-rsa> i also have loads of ubuntu CDs if that would b recommended?
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| 09:43 | however the server doesnt have to run a xserver right?
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> depends on if you prefer debian or ubuntu
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| 09:43 | <arie-rsa> ubuntu and debian are the same to me really ;P
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| 09:44 | <vagrantc> ubuntu 7.04 feisty is probably a little more feature complete LTSP than debian etch at this point.
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| 09:47 | you need to backport the local device support for it to work in debian etch
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| 09:47 | local sound support might be a little more clean with ubuntu as well
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| 09:48 | <sutula> vagrantc: do you have any details on sound support problems with Etch...I still haven't gotten it working
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| 09:48 | <arie-rsa> vagrantc : witch os do you suggest than?
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| 09:48 | <vagrantc> sutula: what have you done?
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> arie-rsa: i told you everything i know.
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| 09:49 | <arie-rsa> k
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> i've mostly worked on the debian side of things, but work pretty closely with the ubuntu folks
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| 09:49 | <sutula> vagrantc: The client kernel has /proc/asound entries, but udev doesn't create e.g. /dev/dsp, so esd can't open the device
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| 09:50 | <vagrantc> sutula: do you have the alsa to oss compatibility module loaded? i forget the exact name ...
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| 09:50 | <sutula> vagrantc: Probably not...this is the sort of stuff I don't know about
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| 09:50 | iirc, just ltsp-server and it's depends
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| 09:51 | <vagrantc> sutula: well, that needs to happen on the thin client, not on the server
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| 09:51 | <sutula> vagrantc: ...so installed in the chroot?
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| 09:51 | <vagrantc> sutula: so, you've got it booting, and you can log in, but sound doesn't work?
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| 09:51 | <sutula> vagrantc: Yes
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| 09:52 | <vagrantc> sutula: you might need snd-mixer-oss and snd-pcm-oss loaded ...
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| 09:52 | sutula: so put them in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/modules
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| 09:53 | <sutula> vagrantc: Is the longer-term plan to make this more automatic (in terms of dependencies)?
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| 09:53 | <vagrantc> sutula: yes
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| 09:54 | the long term plan is "everything just works" :)
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| 09:54 | or, to steal from k12ltsp, "it just works, duh."
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| 09:54 | <sutula> vagrantc: If I get it working, should I just file bug reports for what I find is needed?
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| 09:54 | <vagrantc> sutula: please do
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| 09:54 | <sutula> vagrantc: k, thanks
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| 09:54 | <vagrantc> sutula: and use reportbug, please :)
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| 09:54 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, i assume you will switch to pulse as well
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| 09:54 | <sutula> vagrantc: yep
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| 09:55 | <ogra> /dev/dsp is moot then
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| 09:55 | <vagrantc> ogra: sounds like the way to go, yes.
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| 09:55 | <sutula> Is that a viable option today on Etch?
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| 09:55 | <vagrantc> sutula: you'd have to hack a couple scripts
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| 09:56 | <ogra> probably if you copy parts from ubuntu into your chroot ...
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| 09:56 | <sutula> ogra: Is that what ubuntu uses today?
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| 09:56 | <ogra> the scripts alone wont do it though you need a special config
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| 09:56 | sutula, feisty, yes
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| 09:56 | <ogra> the former versions also used esd
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| 09:56 | <vagrantc> do you need to tweak ldm at all?
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| 09:57 | <ogra> no but ltsp-client.init
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| 09:57 | ah, well, and one or two lines in ldm iirc
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| 09:57 | * vagrantc hopes to merge debian and ubuntu's ltsp over the next few weeks | |
| 09:57 | <ogra> telling it about the default soundserver
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| 09:57 | yeah
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| 09:57 | <vagrantc> and then hopefully i'll be able to release a backport to etch, too.
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| 09:57 | <sutula> vagrantc: That would be sweet
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| 09:57 | <ogra> well, you are 6 months behind atm ... the merge will be hard
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| 09:57 | <vagrantc> and get a backport for ltspfs
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| 09:58 | ogra: has to happen :P
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| 09:58 | <moquist> vagrantc: found someplace to hole up? :)
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| 09:58 | <ogra> indeed :)
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| 09:58 | <vagrantc> moquist: sort of... in a hostal in madrid
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| 09:59 | <arie-rsa> ok iam burning 7.04 ubuntu now
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| 09:59 | fkn disc errors though :P
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| 10:00 | and i have a router, can i use that as tyhe dhcp server?
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> i'd recommend avoiding it if you can
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| 10:00 | <arie-rsa> ok i will see what we can do :)
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> much easier to configure a real dhcp server under linux
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| 10:01 | <arie-rsa> were just going to screw some time with this :)
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> the ideal is to have two network cards on your LTSP server, one for network access, and one for the thin-clients
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| 10:01 | <arie-rsa> we have loads of old machines so we figured might aswell thy ltsp
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| 10:01 | we have extra network cards ^^
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| 10:01 | however no clue about drivers so i hope ubuntu has the correct drivers
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| 10:01 | <cliebow_> arie-rsa, will they pxeboot..or are you going etherboot
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| 10:02 | <arie-rsa> ethernet boot
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| 10:03 | well i hope they can pxe
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> well, they both do ethernet booting ...
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| 10:03 | <arie-rsa> pxe seems to the way to go
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> pxe and etherboot are two different ways of booting over ethernet
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| 10:04 | <arie-rsa> but atm iam first going to setup the server w. ubuntu :)
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> yeah, if your card supports PXE properly, that's definitely easier.
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| 10:04 | <arie-rsa> i read about pxe bootp protocol :)
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| 10:04 | vagrantc u dont happen to live in haarlem do u?
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> nope
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| 10:04 | <arie-rsa> damn :(
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| 10:04 | ^^
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> bumming around spain for the next few weeks
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| 10:05 | <arie-rsa> hablo un poco de espanol, pero nu me gusta hablo espanol
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> por que no?
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| 10:05 | <arie-rsa> prefero hablo en englaisa
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| 10:06 | tengo espanol por mi collega
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| 10:06 | i have spanish at college and i hate it, es muy dificil
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| 10:06 | <sbalneav> Argh. %&$! autoconf.
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| 10:06 | <mfdutra> guess german is more difficult :)
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| 10:06 | <sbalneav> A pox on thee.
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| 10:06 | <arie-rsa> Me gustan las chicas muy guapas :P
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| 10:06 | nein, ich spreche auch deutsch
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| 10:07 | <mfdutra> heh
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| 10:07 | <arie-rsa> deutsch is der tale des reich
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| 10:07 | ^^
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| 10:07 | <sbalneav> ogra: BTW, Feisty upgrade here at work worked wunnerful.
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| 10:07 | <arie-rsa> maar nederlands is het best, but dutch is the best
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| 10:08 | <ogra> sbalneav, great
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| 10:08 | mvo will love to hear that
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| 10:08 | <sbalneav> That fixed the bzr problem I was having too.
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| 10:08 | Now I just gotta move my edubuntu box at home to gutsy.
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| 10:08 | <mfdutra> hey guys. I'm playing here with local devices. it's working ok when I insert a cd into the drive. but no way to open the drive tray any more
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| 10:08 | <arie-rsa> mfdutra why? its a killer drive?\
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| 10:09 | <mfdutra> probably
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| 10:09 | <ogra> mfdutra, well, in ubuntu the nolock option is set, so just pressing the button should give it back
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| 10:09 | donno about other OSes
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| 10:09 | <mfdutra> I mean that's happening in my thin client
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| 10:09 | so it's running ltsp 4.2
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| 10:09 | <arie-rsa> mfdutra: it starts spinning at boot and doesnt stop spinning till poweroff? i have that at home, turning off the pc doesnt matter :D keeps spinning
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| 10:09 | <sbalneav> mfdutra: Hmm, have you waited 2 seconds?
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| 10:09 | <arie-rsa> with or without disc in it
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| 10:09 | <sbalneav> Should work.
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| 10:10 | <mfdutra> sbalneav, I've waited for 10 minutes
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| 10:10 | <arie-rsa> ^^
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| 10:10 | <cliebow_> anyone else pxe booting from winblows?
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| 10:10 | <sbalneav> Something's not right then.
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| 10:10 | mfdutra: 4.2 you say?
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| 10:10 | <mfdutra> yep
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| 10:10 | nothing happens when I press the drive button
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| 10:10 | it doesn't even blink
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| 10:12 | <petre> cliebow_: what do you mean? I thought MS required windows to be installed on the local disk
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| 10:12 | <cliebow_> naahh using winblows dhcp
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| 10:12 | <petre> ah, windows server, you mean
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| 10:12 | <cliebow_> yeccch
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| 10:12 | <petre> agreed
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| 10:14 | <sbalneav> mfdutra: Maybe bomb through the checklist, see how that works
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| 10:15 | <mfdutra> what happens when I press the drive button? does it send an event that was supposed to umount the cd?
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| 10:16 | <vagrantc> i don't think CDs tend to communicate much
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| 10:16 | we have to do ugly things to detect device insertion events
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| 10:17 | <cliebow_> works fine on some machines..not worht a doggoon on others
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| 10:18 | <mfdutra> that's really bad for a user
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| 10:18 | <vagrantc> tell that the the hardware manufacturers
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| 10:23 | <sbalneav> mfdutra: Theoretically, after 2 seconds, the cd's supposed to be unmounted, so pressing the button should work fine.
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| 10:23 | <mfdutra> how could I debug that?
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| 10:24 | is there a file where I can check whether or not the drive is sending an event?
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| 10:25 | <sbalneav> Take a look on the thin client itself, see if the cd's being unmounted.
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| 10:25 | <vagrantc> are there any open files that could be keeping it mounted?
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| 10:25 | <mfdutra> sbalneav, it's still mounted
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| 10:25 | <sbalneav> If there's any open files, that's handled at the ltspfs level, not the cdrom level.
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| 10:26 | <mfdutra> there is no lsof in ltsp
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| 10:26 | there should be :)
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| 10:26 | <vagrantc> mfdutra: is it still showing as mounted on the serveR?
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| 10:26 | because you could use lsof on the server-side
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| 10:26 | <mfdutra> it's not mounted
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| 10:27 | I've got ~/Drives/My_CDrom, but it's empty
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| 10:27 | but in ltsp it's still mounted
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| 10:27 | in /tmp/drives/My_CDrom
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| 10:28 | if I umount it, the tray opens ok
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| 10:28 | but the user isn't gonna do that
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| 10:29 | <sbalneav> mfdutra: is lbussd running?
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| 10:30 | <mfdutra> in the server or the client?
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| 10:30 | <sbalneav> client
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| 10:30 | <mfdutra> I see /sbin/lbuscd
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| 10:31 | <sbalneav> ah, ok
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| 10:31 | sorry, cd
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| 10:31 | hmm
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| 10:31 | cant remember where they are for 4.2 , but look for ltspfs_mount and ltspfs_umount
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| 10:31 | they're what should be mounting and umounting the cd
| |
| 10:31 | <mfdutra> hmmm
| |
| 10:32 | I tested again and it worked
| |
| 10:32 | maybe it was open files
| |
| 10:32 | locked descriptors
| |
| 10:32 | <sbalneav> Gremlins
| |
| 10:34 | <mfdutra> now it's happening something more weird
| |
| 10:34 | I put a cd into the drive, the icon pops up in my screen (server), and it's empty
| |
| 10:34 | I switch to vt2 (client) and the cd isn't mounted
| |
| 10:37 | <sbalneav> mfdutra: What kind of server is it>
| |
| 10:37 | ?
| |
| 10:37 | ogra: Seen the announcement about logfs?
| |
| 10:38 | ogra: http://logfs.org/logfs/
| |
| 10:38 | <mfdutra> ubuntu dapper
| |
| 10:38 | <sbalneav> 32 or 64 bit?
| |
| 10:38 | <mfdutra> 32
| |
| 10:39 | <sbalneav> run through the checklist. Step 11 should be informative.
| |
| 10:39 | <ogra> "LogFS runs on the OLPC. It will die a horrible death upon encountering the first bad block"
| |
| 10:39 | lol
| |
| 10:39 | yay for stability
| |
| 10:39 | <sbalneav> yeah, it's in development
| |
| 10:39 | <ogra> but smells good
| |
| 10:39 | <sbalneav> but worth keeping an eye on
| |
| 10:40 | <ogra> yep
| |
| 10:42 | <sbalneav> 10 years from now, when we're all sitting here with 250 gig flash disks in our boxes :)
| |
| 10:42 | <Burgundavia> more like 2 or 3
| |
| 10:53 | <joebake1> ogra: by bad block are you referring to it's storage media? A project called EVMS
| |
| 10:53 | Enterprise Volume Management Service was built to provide storage management
| |
| 10:53 | within a gui environment. They have a bad block relocation feature.
| |
| 10:53 | I ran into problems with bad blocks on my email server. I've never quite quite
| |
| 10:53 | learned enough about EVMS to put it to good use, but maybe their code
| |
| 10:53 | could help in this place.
| |
| 10:54 | Sorry I must have another IRC session opened. I'll stay logged in for a while.
| |
| 10:54 | My normal user name is joebaker.
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| 11:00 | Burgundavia has quit IRC | |
| 11:06 | petre has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:06 | Q-FUN1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:07 | <petre> if I attach a scanner to the server, should the clients be able to see it, say, via xsane?
| |
| 11:07 | <yanu> yes
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| 11:07 | <petre> using ltsp 4.2 here
| |
| 11:08 | do I need to enable it via lts.conf? I thought that was just if the scanner was attached to the client
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| 11:08 | if I login as a muggle on the server, xsane sees the scanner
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| 11:08 | but if I run it on a client, it says it can't find any scanners
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| 11:13 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 11:18 | <petre> ok, if I su to root on a client and then run xsane, it finds the scanner
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| 11:18 | so it sounds like a permissions issue
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| 11:19 | anyone know what file I should be looking for to allow all users to access the scanner?
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| 11:19 | i.e., which file needs its permissions changed?
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| 11:20 | <sutula> petre: perhaps some users need to be added to a group in /etc/group
| |
| 11:20 | * sutula isn't a scanning expert | |
| 11:20 | * sutula usually just looks for likely groups and then finds it by trial and error | |
| 11:21 | <petre> in /dev I have a device called scanner-usbdev1.3 which is a symlink to /bus/usb/001/003
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| 11:21 | perms on the symlink are 777
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| 11:21 | <sutula> petre: perhaps group plugdev
| |
| 11:22 | * sutula also sees a messagebus, scanner, saned in his /etc/group file | |
| 11:23 | <petre> sutula: I don't have any of those in /etc/group
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| 11:23 | I'm on fedora 5 (k12ltsp 5)
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| 11:23 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:24 | * sutula doesn't know how RH administers such permissions, but it probably has a way...maybe ask in a Red Hat support channel? | |
| 11:25 | <petre> I tried changing the perms to 744 on /dev/bus/usb/001/003, but it still can't find it
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| 11:25 | Gadi: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> petre!
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| 11:26 | <petre> know anything about scanners?
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> Ive scanned
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| 11:26 | I admit to it
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| 11:26 | I was young and I needed the money
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| 11:26 | <petre> scanner is attached to server, but clients can't see it when they run xsane
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| 11:26 | only root can find it from a client
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| 11:26 | but a muggle logged in on the server can find it
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| 11:27 | <yanu> then it is defenetly a permission problem
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| 11:27 | <Gadi> so anyone logged into the server can see it
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| 11:27 | <petre> yes
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| 11:27 | <Gadi> but if they are on a client they cannot
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| 11:27 | <petre> yes
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| 11:27 | but root on a client can see it
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| 11:27 | Q-FUN1 has quit IRC | |
| 11:28 | <Gadi> thats a fun one
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| 11:28 | :)
| |
| 11:28 | have you tried using any of the cmdline tools
| |
| 11:28 | <petre> yeah, esp. since I was hoping to get this working without needing root access
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> they may provide more insight
| |
| 11:28 | <petre> like what?
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> is it a usb scanner?
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| 11:28 | <petre> yes
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| 11:29 | epson 1250
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| 11:30 | <Gadi> do you have the scanimage command?
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| 11:30 | <petre> yes
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> log in as a user on a client, open a terminal, type scanimage -L
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| 11:31 | iirc
| |
| 11:31 | <petre> same result with scanimage: root can see it from client, muggle cannot
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> does it give you a reason
| |
| 11:32 | <petre> no, just says no scanners were identified
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| 11:32 | for root, it does show the scanner, correct model, etc.
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| 11:32 | Daggett has quit IRC | |
| 11:32 | <petre> I wonder if I can point scanimage at the device
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| 11:33 | <Gadi> did you check perms on the device?
| |
| 11:33 | who owns it?
| |
| 11:33 | <petre> well, I think so
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| 11:33 | <Gadi> what is the device name?
| |
| 11:33 | <petre> I found /dev/scanner-usbdev1.3 which is a symlink to /dev/usb/001/003
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| 11:34 | perms on the sym link are 777
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| 11:34 | <Gadi> forget the symlink
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| 11:34 | <petre> perms on /dev/usb/001/003 were 700
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| 11:34 | <Gadi> owner?
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| 11:34 | <petre> I changed them to 744, to no avail
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| 11:34 | root:root
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| 11:34 | <Gadi> try changing to 777
| |
| 11:34 | (really should be 666
| |
| 11:34 | but, hey
| |
| 11:35 | funny that the users should see it on the server, tho
| |
| 11:35 | <petre> ls shows it to be character device
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| 11:36 | sorry, original perms were 600, now are 644
| |
| 11:36 | I'll try 666
| |
| 11:36 | hey, that worked!
| |
| 11:36 | scanimage sees it now
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| 11:36 | <Gadi> weird
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| 11:36 | you should change the udev rules
| |
| 11:36 | <petre> so it has to be able to write to it
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| 11:37 | <Gadi> so its a permannt fix
| |
| 11:37 | <petre> where do I do that
| |
| 11:37 | <Gadi> or
| |
| 11:37 | well, you said its root:root right?
| |
| 11:37 | <petre> yes
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| 11:37 | <Gadi> yeah, so change the udev rules
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| 11:37 | all udev rules should be in: /etc/udev/rules.d/
| |
| 11:37 | best to add your own file there
| |
| 11:38 | instead of mod'ing an existing one
| |
| 11:38 | so it doesnt get blown away with an upgrade
| |
| 11:38 | <petre> well, there is a 60-libsane.rules file there
| |
| 11:38 | <Gadi> ok, give it a read
| |
| 11:39 | <petre> do udev rules work similarly to /etc/rc?.d files?
| |
| 11:39 | with the numbering I mean
| |
| 11:39 | <Gadi> you can glean the magic words to put into your own: 65-petre.rules
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| 11:39 | muh2000__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:39 | <Gadi> yes similar
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| 11:40 | in redhat, you may need to reload udev for your changes to take effect
| |
| 11:40 | * Gadi has not worked on a redhat system in some time for this sort of thing | |
| 11:45 | <mistik1> petre: Yes indeed it does, The lower the number the earlier it is processed
| |
| 11:45 | <petre> so I want my script processed after the 60-libsane.rules, right, thus Gadi's suggestion to name it 65?
| |
| 11:45 | <mistik1> yes
| |
| 11:46 | * Gadi just ate 5 peppridge farm cookies - that's not going to bode well... | |
| 11:46 | * petre is having a hard time grokking the correct syntax for udev rules | |
| 11:47 | <mistik1> Just when I got a handle on devfs they went and dropped udev in my lap ;-)
| |
| 11:47 | <petre> pepperidge farm cookies are good
| |
| 11:47 | <mistik1> dsd has a neat tutorial
| |
| 11:47 | <petre> but maybe not so good for you?
| |
| 11:47 | mistik1: link?
| |
| 11:48 | <Gadi> petre: does your libsane rules file have a bunch of lines with "MODE=600" in them?
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| 11:48 | <petre> no
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| 11:48 | has a tone of 'definitions' for different scanners
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| 11:48 | <mistik1> http://webpages.charter.net/decibelshelp/LinuxHelp_UDEVPrimer.html
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| 11:48 | <petre> and prior to that, just two significant lines:
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| 11:48 | <Gadi> ok, and is there a MODE="600" on those lines?
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| 11:49 | <petre> no
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| 11:49 | SYSFS{idVendor}=="03f0", SYSFS{idProduct}=="0102", SYMLINK+="scanner-%k"
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| 11:49 | # Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 4200C | Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 4200Cxi | Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 4200Cse
| |
| 11:49 | <mistik1> What are you trying to do
| |
| 11:49 | <Gadi> hmm... does redhat still use: /etc/udev/permissions.d/ ?
| |
| 11:49 | <petre> no
| |
| 11:49 | ls /etc/udev
| |
| 11:49 | makedev.d rules.d udev.conf
| |
| 11:50 | <mistik1> petre: what are you trying to do?
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| 11:50 | <Gadi> good - do this:
| |
| 11:50 | copy the libsane rules file to 65-petre.rules
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| 11:50 | <petre> mistik1: scanner is attached to server, but muggles logged in on clients can't see it
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| 11:50 | <Gadi> and at the end of each entry for each scanner, add: , MODE="666"
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| 11:50 | <petre> root can see it from client, and a muggle logged into server can see it
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| 11:50 | <Gadi> that oughtta do it
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| 11:51 | <mistik1> http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html
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| 11:51 | gadi is correct there
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| 11:51 | <petre> Gadi: or in this case, add MODE=666 to the scanner model in question
| |
| 11:51 | <Gadi> might as well do 'em all
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| 11:51 | you never know
| |
| 11:51 | <petre> true, there's a slightly different model in the next classroom
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| 11:52 | <mistik1> ,MODE="0666" would be more acurate
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| 11:52 | bah
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| 11:53 | <mistik1> , MODE="0666" would be more acurate
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| 11:53 | Or better yet and more secure use groups
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| 11:53 | <petre> owner on the device is root:root
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| 11:53 | <mistik1> then you would add something like , GROUP="scanner"
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| 11:54 | <petre> ah, I see; yes, that sounds better
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| 11:54 | <mistik1> , GROUP="scanner", MODE="0600"
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| 11:54 | that should work nicely
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| 11:54 | <petre> shouldn't that be 660?
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| 11:54 | <mistik1> nice catch ;-)
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| 11:55 | <petre> ;-)
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| 11:55 | <mistik1> You are now a udev pro ;)
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| 11:55 | <petre> heh
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| 11:56 | okay, something didn't go right
| |
| 11:56 | I unplugged the scanner, then plugged it back in
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| 11:57 | <mistik1> and?
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| 11:57 | <petre> now I see a /dev/bus/usb/001/004; last time it was /dev/bus/usb/001/003
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| 11:57 | arie-rsa has quit IRC | |
| 11:57 | <petre> and the perms are 600 again for 004
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| 11:58 | <mistik1> then I would make a new file with the support of your scanners
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| 11:58 | <petre> I added , MODE="666" to the only the line for this particular model of Epson scanner
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| 11:58 | <mistik1> hey
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| 11:59 | <petre> maybe I should try Gadi's suggestion to add it to all lines, but I don't think that's the problem
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| 11:59 | <mistik1> the bus should make no different
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| 11:59 | did you restart udevd?
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> petre: you need to restart udev
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| 11:59 | <petre> ah, okay, didn't do that yet.
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| 12:00 | <mistik1> I would also add another arg
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| 12:00 | <petre> can I just kill -1 the pid?
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| 12:00 | mistik1: to the rules file?
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| 12:00 | <mistik1> something like , SYMLINK+="epson"
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| 12:00 | then you dont need to worry about /dev/bus/usb/blah/blah
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| 12:00 | muh2000_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:01 | <mistik1> it should just show up after as /dev/epson
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| 12:01 | No matter what bus it's pluggen into
| |
| 12:01 | That is the real power of udev
| |
| 12:03 | <dan__t> We just took over another phone room last week.
| |
| 12:03 | I think this will be fun.
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| 12:04 | <petre> hmm, added SYMLINK+="epson" to my 65-petre.rules file, did a 'kill -1' on udev's pid, unplugged the scanner, plugged it back in, but I don't see a /dev/epson
| |
| 12:04 | and perms for /dev/bus/usb/001/006 are 600
| |
| 12:04 | grrr...
| |
| 12:05 | <mistik1> petre: let me see exactly what's in that file
| |
| 12:06 | <Gadi> petre, did you run udevd?
| |
| 12:06 | <ltsppbot> "petre" pasted "[root@cat rules.d]# cat 65-pet" (1066 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/139
| |
| 12:07 | <Gadi> on ubuntu, it is a service, but on redhat iirc, it is not
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| 12:07 | joebaker has quit IRC | |
| 12:07 | <Gadi> you should start it from the command line
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| 12:07 | joebake1 has quit IRC | |
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| 12:07 | <petre> I'm not sure where udev gets started, I don't see any mention of it in /etc/init.d
| |
| 12:07 | aside from ltsp-related
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| 12:08 | <mistik1> damn
| |
| 12:08 | A few models in there, eh?
| |
| 12:09 | <petre> yeah, two or theree
| |
| 12:09 | *three
| |
| 12:09 | <Gadi> petre - just run it
| |
| 12:10 | su -
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| 12:10 | udevd &
| |
| 12:10 | <petre> well, there's already a udevd -d running, but what the hey, I'll give it a shot
| |
| 12:10 | <mistik1> um
| |
| 12:10 | <Gadi> (in a different terminal window, if you like)
| |
| 12:10 | <mistik1> wait
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| 12:10 | <petre> mistik1: too late! ;-)
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| 12:10 | <mistik1> which model are you working with
| |
| 12:10 | muh2000__ has quit IRC | |
| 12:11 | <petre> I'm on a test box, so it's okay
| |
| 12:11 | <Gadi> heh, too many cooks - Ill let mistik1 drive;)
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| 12:11 | <petre> well, running udevd just dropped me back to a prompt, and ps shows only one udevd running still, same pid
| |
| 12:12 | <mistik1> No wonder its not working
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| 12:12 | parsley has quit IRC | |
| 12:12 | <mistik1> petre: You put the code on the wrong line
| |
| 12:12 | Note that the line you put it on is commented
| |
| 12:12 | <petre> that's certainly possible
| |
| 12:13 | ah; well, they're all commented, aren't they?
| |
| 12:13 | <mistik1> nope
| |
| 12:13 | You need to put it on the line that starts with SYSFS
| |
| 12:13 | I notice they have scanner-%k there
| |
| 12:13 | <petre> doh!
| |
| 12:14 | <mistik1> looking at this file though I would make my changes in another file
| |
| 12:14 | So as not to have them hosed on an update
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| 12:14 | <petre> mistik1: what is the significance of scanner-%k?
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| 12:14 | <mistik1> It should symlink the device to /dev/scanner
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| 12:15 | %k represents the kernel number
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| 12:15 | <petre> I copied 60-libsane.rules to 65-petre.rules and have been modding 65-petre.rules
| |
| 12:15 | <mistik1> use a lower number
| |
| 12:15 | or it will be ignored as udev will hit the default file first
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| 12:16 | as a rule I usually put any custom rules into something like 10-somename
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| 12:16 | <petre> I was wondering about that, that's why I asked if it is controlled by first match or last match
| |
| 12:17 | <mistik1> You guessed right
| |
| 12:17 | <petre> I thought that's why Gadi suggested 65, to be later than the 60 rules
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| 12:17 | Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC | |
| 12:17 | <petre> but now you're saying it should be lower?
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| 12:17 | <mistik1> but that depends on what you're trying to do
| |
| 12:17 | <cliebow_> cd /home/nwea
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| 12:17 | parsley has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:18 | <mistik1> In this case to have your code work before the redhat defaults take hold I would definately make it lower
| |
| 12:19 | <petre> ah, progress: I plugged the scanner in, and now I have a /dev/epson
| |
| 12:19 | <mistik1> SYSFS{idVendor}=="04b8", SYSFS{idProduct}=="010f", MODE="666", SYMLINK+="epson"
| |
| 12:19 | indeed
| |
| 12:20 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:20 | <mistik1> Hey Jimbo
| |
| 12:20 | <petre> however, it's a symlink to /dev/bus/usb/001/008 and the perms on that are still 600
| |
| 12:20 | :-(
| |
| 12:21 | <mistik1> does your line looks like what I just pasted?
| |
| 12:22 | <petre> mistik1: not quite: I still have the SYMLINK+="scanner-%k" in there
| |
| 12:22 | should I remove it?
| |
| 12:22 | <mistik1> I'm confused
| |
| 12:22 | <petre> SYSFS{idVendor}=="04b8", SYSFS{idProduct}=="010f", SYMLINK+="scanner-%k", MODE="666", SYMLINK+="epson"
| |
| 12:22 | <mistik1> then where did /dev/epson come from
| |
| 12:22 | <petre> I've got two symlinks in there
| |
| 12:22 | <mistik1> only one symlink at a time
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| 12:23 | <petre> and they both seem to be created
| |
| 12:23 | <mistik1> make it look exactly as it does in the line I pasted
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| 12:23 | hehe
| |
| 12:23 | funny
| |
| 12:23 | and use 0666
| |
| 12:24 | iirc you need the first octect
| |
| 12:26 | <petre> nope, /dev/bus/usb/001/009 is still 600
| |
| 12:26 | btw, why does the number keep incrementing each time I plug the scanner back in?
| |
| 12:27 | and I did make it 0666 in 65-petre.rules
| |
| 12:27 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: I have a little problem with pen-drives on ltsp4.2...
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| 12:27 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:27 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: I didn't find lbussd on my ltsp tree
| |
| 12:28 | <petre> hmm, something else didn't go right, as there is still a /dev/scanner-usbdev1.9 being created
| |
| 12:28 | <mistik1> petre: Part of the point to udev is that you dont need to care about that incrementing numbers
| |
| 12:28 | <petre> I took that part out of the rule
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| 12:28 | <jammcq> mistik1: hey
| |
| 12:28 | <mistik1> petre: odd
| |
| 12:28 | <ogra> jammcq, hey
| |
| 12:29 | <jammcq> ogra: howdie
| |
| 12:29 | <ogra> jammcq, i think i gained us several tens of seconds :)
| |
| 12:29 | <petre> the 60-libsane.rules would still match, and it has the kernel symlink command, so maybe that's where that's coming from
| |
| 12:29 | <cliebow_> jammcq:!!
| |
| 12:29 | <jammcq> ogra: oh?
| |
| 12:29 | cliebow_: howdie
| |
| 12:30 | <cliebow_> jammcq:how familiar are you with blade servers?
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> jammcq, i fiddled around with the udev initscript ... we now dont stop for it anymore ... but i'll need testers for that change it coud be dangerous
| |
| 12:30 | <mistik1> petre: maybe we could add a lastrule to it but lets see what udevtest shows
| |
| 12:30 | sepski has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:30 | <mistik1> petre: udevtest /dev/bus/usb
| |
| 12:30 | pastebot that for me
| |
| 12:30 | <jammcq> cliebow_: not at all. My feeling about blad servers is that when I'm ready to add more blades, the chassis will be obsolete
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> jammcq, so far i had no client having probs here though
| |
| 12:31 | <jammcq> ogra: wowwie
| |
| 12:31 | that's awesome news
| |
| 12:31 | <ogra> sadly it doesnt help much on the e2300
| |
| 12:31 | <cliebow_> ..i got a call from someone from Atlanta schools..asking about deploying for 100 schools
| |
| 12:32 | <petre> mistik1: yeah, it was the 60-libsane.rules file that was creating the /dev/scanner-usbdev1.9 file
| |
| 12:32 | <jammcq> cliebow_: isn't there already a pilot project taking place down there?
| |
| 12:32 | <cliebow_> i asked him to come in and talk with youse
| |
| 12:32 | i think 5 schools..
| |
| 12:32 | <ogra> the small CPU is then constantly busy so the gain through not stopping is traded for an overall slowness while udev probes
| |
| 12:32 | it gains some seconds though
| |
| 12:33 | <petre> mistik1: ah! udevtest says "parse_file: line too long, rule skipped /etc/udev/rules.d/65-petre.rules, line 773"
| |
| 12:33 | <Gadi> ah, ogra, just the man I wanted to see
| |
| 12:33 | <jammcq> ogra: can we remove some of the udev rules, for things like IDE ?
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| 12:33 | <ogra> on the classmate and the 1220 its 15-20 secs faster :)
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| 12:33 | <Gadi> ogra: been testing ur gtk/c greeter against the pygtk one
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| 12:33 | <jammcq> wow
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| 12:33 | <petre> what's the command in vi to turn on line numbers?
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| 12:34 | <ogra> jammcq, nope i wouldnt do that ... else IDE devices wont work
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| 12:34 | <jammcq> :set nonumber
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| 12:34 | <ogra> :set nu
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| 12:34 | <petre> tx
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| 12:34 | <jammcq> ogra: umm, we're talking about thin clients.
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| 12:34 | oh, you wanted to turn ON line numbers :)
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| 12:34 | <ogra> jammcq, i know and most of them can easily cope ...
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| 12:34 | <jammcq> sorry
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| 12:34 | <mistik1> petre: add this at the end of the line in your 60- file OPTIONS+="last_rule"
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| 12:34 | <jammcq> ogra: it might be interesting to see what impact it has
| |
| 12:34 | <ogra> jammcq, the 2300 is a rare thing i'd like to have a specia mode for or something
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| 12:35 | <mistik1> That will prevent any more processing of that device after your file has fineshed with it
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| 12:35 | <Gadi> ogra: I think there is not much speed gain to going with the c/gtk greeter
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| 12:35 | <petre> mistik1: can I mod the 65- file instead?
| |
| 12:35 | I'd prefer to use a new file than modify an existing if possible
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| 12:35 | <jammcq> Gadi: are you on feisty?
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| 12:35 | <Gadi> I think its just speedier now because it doesn't grab session/lang info from server
| |
| 12:36 | jammcq: for my testing? yes
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| 12:36 | <mistik1> petre: use the new file
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| 12:36 | <ogra> jammcq, how about incorporating the 4.2 scripts for a "low-end" mode the e2300 isnt usable for me on either version btw (with a 1200x1024 display)
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| 12:36 | <jammcq> ok, there was a pretty good speedup when some fonts were removed. but feisty already does that
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| 12:36 | privet has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:36 | <jammcq> ogra: hmm, special startup script ?
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| 12:36 | <ogra> if i force it down to 800x600 it stops showing firefox window trails on the desktop
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| 12:36 | <mistik1> petre: rpm -Uvh udev would blow away your changes to 65-....
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| 12:36 | <Gadi> jammcq: the issue with the ldm is that it needs to load so many libs, i think
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| 12:37 | <jammcq> ogra: I had no problem at all with 1024x768
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| 12:37 | <ogra> but above that it isnt usable either on ssh or XDMCP
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| 12:37 | <Gadi> if it could be statically compiled, it might improve
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| 12:37 | <ogra> Gadi, thats the plan
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| 12:37 | <Gadi> ah
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| 12:37 | <ogra> and currently it only has an #include gtk.h at the top ;)
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| 12:37 | <petre> mistik1: why would it modify my 65- file? The system created the 60- file, the 65- is my creation
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| 12:38 | <ogra> and i didnt plan to add much more :)
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| 12:38 | <Gadi> ogra: what is the boot time on a good thin client (by your testing - and not vmware)
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| 12:38 | <ogra> about 90secs on the 1220
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| 12:38 | <petre> do you mean that -Uvh would blow away any changes I made to the system-created 60- file (which makes sense)?
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| 12:38 | <mistik1> petre: oh, You had me confused there
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| 12:38 | <Gadi> ogra: and how much of that is ldm?
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| 12:39 | I have been counting ~50 secs
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| 12:39 | <ogra> the udev thingie should get that down to 70, the new greeter should cut down 10 secs
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| 12:39 | <petre> hey, it worked this time!
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| 12:39 | <ogra> so we're at about a minute
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| 12:39 | <mistik1> petre: rename your created file to a LOWER number than the distro supplied file
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| 12:39 | <petre> perms on /dev/bus/usb/001/011 are 666!
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| 12:40 | <ogra> if we get all the new xorg 7.3 features in we can get rid of the xorg detection crap ...
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| 12:40 | <jammcq> petre: I guess '/dev' stands for 'devil', eh?
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| 12:40 | <ogra> that should gain 20secs
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| 12:40 | <mistik1> jammcq: so not funny
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| 12:40 | <petre> jammcq: heh, as in Cruella
| |
| 12:40 | * jammcq goes back and hides under his rock | |
| 12:40 | <ogra> Gadi, so we *could* end up with 40-50 second boots
| |
| 12:40 | <Gadi> ogra: on the good client
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| 12:41 | right?
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| 12:41 | <petre> mistik1: so, does that mean that something else higher/after my 65- file is getting involved, setting perms?
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| 12:41 | <ogra> is 500Mhz 128M good ?
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> i would say
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| 12:41 | <ogra> i'd define that as standard ....
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> standard
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| 12:41 | zactly
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| 12:41 | <mistik1> petre: It certainly can, which is why I said your file should process before and not after
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| 12:41 | <ogra> good is rather 900Mhz+ and 128M+
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> how much is ldm atm?
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| 12:42 | <ogra> too much
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> by your count
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| 12:42 | <ogra> i have no numbers
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| 12:42 | 15secs probably
| |
| 12:42 | probably eve 20 on first boot
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> I am finding about double that
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| 12:43 | counting 'mississippis'
| |
| 12:43 | ;)
| |
| 12:43 | <ogra> heh
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| 12:43 | <Gadi> btw, for us, its not how much ram at this point
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| 12:43 | its the ram speed
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| 12:44 | remember, we *are* a thin client
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| 12:44 | <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-new-greeter.tgz
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| 12:44 | try that
| |
| 12:44 | <Gadi> is that newer than launchpad as of yesterday?
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| 12:44 | <ogra> its a binary you can just unpack in the chroot
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| 12:44 | unstripped and not static though
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| 12:44 | letalx has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:45 | <letalx> help not a valid image unable to load file
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| 12:45 | <ogra> install gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks in the chroot as well if you want themeing
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| 12:45 | <letalx> segment 00092200,00092400
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| 12:45 | ltsp install in slackware
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| 12:45 | <ogra> its not much smaller than the python one atm, but a lot faster
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| 12:46 | <Gadi> is it python or C?
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| 12:46 | <ogra> C
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| 12:47 | Gadi, btw, session and lang info are only requested if the popup for them is drawn, not before
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| 12:48 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:48 | <ogra> it wont affect bootspeed
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| 12:48 | <jammcq> vagrantc: hola
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| 12:48 | <vagrantc> jammcq: buenas tardes
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| 12:49 | <ogra> Gadi, for now the udev change will be the biggest speedup we ever had btw
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| 12:50 | <vagrantc> ditching stuff in udev ?
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| 12:50 | in the initramfs?
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| 12:50 | J45p3r__ has quit IRC | |
| 12:53 | <ogra> vagrantc, dpkg-diverting udevsettle to /bin/false
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| 12:53 | so the initscript wont wait for udev to finish before it goes on boting
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| 12:53 | *booting
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| 12:53 | <Gadi> 55 secs from black screen with X to login screen
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| 12:53 | with that new greeter
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| 12:54 | so, it comes in about the same for me
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| 12:54 | <ogra> what kind of hw is that ?
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| 12:54 | <Gadi> its a slower one - Geode GX2 ~400MHz, 128MB ram
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| 12:54 | <ogra> well, 400Mhz sounds reasonable
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| 12:54 | <vagrantc> ogra: how much does the udevsettle hack give you?
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| 12:55 | <ogra> vagrantc, the complete time of udev stopping
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| 12:55 | <Gadi> i was gonna ask about udevsettle
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| 12:55 | I was just looking at the initramfs
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| 12:55 | letalx has left #ltsp | |
| 12:55 | <Gadi> is that what you comment out?
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| 12:55 | <ogra> # This next bit can take a while
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| 12:55 | if type usplash_write >/dev/null 2>&1; then
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| 12:55 | usplash_write "TIMEOUT 360"
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| 12:55 | ...
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| 12:56 | so udevsettle can take up to 360secs ... depending on the HW it has to initialize
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| 12:56 | <Gadi> what about udevtrigger?
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| 12:57 | <ogra> if you want to generate coldplug events for udev to make non hotplug HW appear to the system, you call udevtrigger
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| 12:57 | <vagrantc> so, yaking udevsettle out of the picture risks things like mouse and hard drive swap not working ?
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| 12:57 | <ogra> udevsettle is called afterwards and will only return if udevtrigger is done
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| 12:58 | vagrantc, we will have to switch MODULES=most in initramfs ....
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> ogra: switch to module=most ?
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| 12:58 | <ogra> ten they will exists before
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| 12:58 | <Gadi> doesnt mouse/hard drive swap happen in the regular boot sequence's udev
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| 12:58 | not initramfs
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| 12:58 | initramfs only needs enough to mount the nfs root
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> ah, we're only talking about the initramfs?
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| 12:58 | <ogra> ubuntus initramfs detects mice and keyboards and creates the /dev/input links etc
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| 12:58 | <Gadi> I don't see why we load anything but the network drivers
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| 12:59 | <ogra> Gadi, to keep the initramfs small
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> ogra: what are you meaning with the MODULES=most thing ... ?
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| 12:59 | <Gadi> doesnt it do that again inthe boot process?
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| 12:59 | <ogra> vagrantc, currently we only include NIC drivers
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| 12:59 | Gadi, exactly
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> ogra: and we'll have to add additional modules because ... ?
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| 12:59 | <ogra> Gadi, and it stops for 15-30 secs ..
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| 13:00 | vagrantc, --- beacuse you complained about local swap :P
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| 13:00 | <vagrantc> ogra: oh, we don't need that in the initramfs
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| 13:00 | <Gadi> but doesnt swap get turned on during the boot process?
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| 13:00 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: are you there???
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> i'm all for keeping it MODULES=netboot (or something even better)
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| 13:01 | <Gadi> heh
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| 13:01 | <sbalneav> Guaraldo: Yep!
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| 13:01 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: I'm needing some help...
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| 13:01 | <ogra> we run an instance of udev in initramfs already, the second run by init is only to fix permissions and add missing devices ...
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| 13:01 | <sbalneav> Sure, what's up?
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah. i stumbled in the middle of the conversation.
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| 13:01 | <Gadi> ogra: right - I think we're all saying similar things
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| 13:02 | <vagrantc> or, i've stumbled in and out of the conversation
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| 13:02 | <Gadi> my question is: do we need udevtrigger in initramfs?
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| 13:02 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: I've checked all steps to have ltsp-devices working well, but when I plug my pendrive it takes too long to create the icon... when I open it, it's clean...
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| 13:02 | <ogra> vagrantc, what i say is that if we use MODULES=most we can be sure the devices exists before the udve initscript runs
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| 13:02 | vagrantc, if we do that we dont need to care if its finished or not
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| 13:02 | <sbalneav> Guaraldo: ok, is it a 64 bit server?
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| 13:03 | <ogra> so we can drop usdevsettle during the bootprocess and just go on with our business
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| 13:03 | <Guaraldo> no...
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| 13:03 | <vagrantc> ogra: hrm.
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| 13:03 | <ogra> ltsp-client-setup will divert it and ltsp-client will switch it back ...
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| 13:03 | <Guaraldo> it was an ubuntu dapper (now upgraded to feisty)... LTSP4.2
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| 13:03 | <ogra> we wont loose anything but bootdelay
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| 13:04 | <Guaraldo> 32 bit
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| 13:04 | <vagrantc> ogra: and why is it faster doing the probing from initramfs than from the bootscripts ?
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| 13:04 | <ogra> vagrantc, i had the idea when i saw that 4.2 is doing pretty much the same with udev ;)
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| 13:04 | vagrantc, no idea, but it is
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| 13:04 | <vagrantc> gross
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| 13:05 | <ogra> likely because we work 100% from ram there
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| 13:05 | <vagrantc> yeah, i suppose
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| 13:05 | <ogra> while the initscript runs from nfs
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| 13:05 | <sbalneav> Guaraldo: Give the checklist a try, run through it quickly
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| 13:05 | !checklist
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| 13:05 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "checklist" is The checklist for debugging problems with local device access is at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Troubleshooting. Please work through all 12 steps, record the results, and paste the results to the pastebot at http://pastebot.ltsp.org
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| 13:05 | <sbalneav> Either the terminals don't know their names, or there's some missing fuse libraries.
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| 13:06 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: Ok... I'll do it again...
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| 13:06 | <ogra> vagrantc, if we can get rid of x detection and i get the greeter fats enough we'll get below 60sec boots
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| 13:06 | *fast
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| 13:06 | <sbalneav> LTSPFSD_OPTIONS = "-a" will turn off authentication for the ltspfsd, I beleive.
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| 13:06 | ccjoe has left #ltsp | |
| 13:06 | <vagrantc> ogra: no x detection?
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| 13:07 | <ogra> xorg 7.3 is supposed to not need xorg.conf anymore
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| 13:07 | it just hit the archive yesterday :)
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| 13:07 | <vagrantc> but, presumably it does some sort of detection
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| 13:07 | <ogra> i didnt play with it yet though
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| 13:07 | well, but noi debconf or xdebconfigurator
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| 13:07 | it probes the HW itself ... no scripts involved
| |
| 13:08 | <vagrantc> yeah, that would be nice.
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| 13:08 | <ogra> it should be a lot faster
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| 13:08 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: Version 4.2 update 3
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| 13:08 | <vagrantc> hopefully there's some way to override it when it's stupid.
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| 13:08 | <ogra> it will still accept xorg.conf
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| 13:08 | <sbalneav> CHeck the hostname one first
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| 13:08 | step 3 or 4 i think
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| 13:09 | <ogra> vagrantc, http://keithp.com/blog/randr_1.2_update.html
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| 13:15 | <Gadi> ogra: do you have source for that greeter you just sent me?
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| 13:15 | my focus is a speedy ldm - more so than boot time
| |
| 13:16 | <vagrantc> Gadi: like, speedy during use ?
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| 13:16 | <Gadi> like when I log out, it should take less than the better part of several minutes to get a login screen ;)
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| 13:16 | <ogra> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2992183880068262304
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| 13:16 | *giggle
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| 13:17 | http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ldm-greeter.tgz
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| 13:17 | Gadi, ^^
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| 13:17 | <Gadi> thx
| |
| 13:18 | i tell people not to bother turning thin clients off ;)
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| 13:18 | but, I can't tell them not to log out
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| 13:19 | ogra: I see a lot more than just gtk.h
| |
| 13:19 | ;)
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| 13:19 | <ogra> ot takes 5 secs here to get the greeter back
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| 13:19 | <cliebow_> http://counterfeitmini.com/main.swf
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| 13:19 | <ogra> Gadi, right, most of it is from plaing around
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| 13:20 | *playing
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| 13:20 | thats far from being done yet, its my first sketch :)
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| 13:20 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 13:20 | <ogra> written in an afternoon, dont expect to much
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| 13:21 | <sbalneav> Wow, all that for $99?
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| 13:21 | And Reversi too?
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| 13:22 | Think they got us beat, ogra
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| 13:22 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: there are about 1300 workstations... how can i configure to workstations get their name bu dns reverse?
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| 13:23 | <sbalneav> Is that it? They don't know their names?
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| 13:23 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: no... my test workstation knows...
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| 13:23 | <sbalneav> probably far easier to just set LTSPFSD_OPTIONS = "-a"
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| 13:23 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:24 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: hummm... I'll try this...
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| 13:24 | <Gadi> ogra: didn't mean to knock it - its a great piece of work - masterful, in fact
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| 13:24 | I just want to help get it down from ~50 seconds on this box o mine :)
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| 13:24 | <ogra> Gadi, well, i just wanted to point out that there is more to come
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| 13:25 | <Gadi> great - we can compare notes :)
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| 13:25 | <ogra> the real issue seems to be either the python wrapper or X being slow
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| 13:25 | <Gadi> btw, do we need to kill X on logout?
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| 13:25 | why not respawn the greeter
| |
| 13:25 | that would save some
| |
| 13:26 | * Gadi wonders why he thinks instead of tries.... | |
| 13:27 | <sbalneav> Gadi: Hmmm, I think you may need to restart X so you can reset all the xatoms/props etc.
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| 13:29 | <Gadi> nothing a little "while True:" line won't test ;)
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| 13:30 | <ogra> well, we could run the greeter in an xnest fullscreen window :P
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| 13:30 | <Gadi> ?
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| 13:30 | i was just thinking putting spawn_session in a while loop
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| 13:30 | <ogra> that wouldnt restart the main server
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| 13:30 | <Gadi> ill let you know what i find
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| 13:31 | <ogra> yep
| |
| 13:31 | <jammcq> isn't there a "reset" to X, without relaunching the Xserver?
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| 13:31 | <ogra> not according to the manpage
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| 13:32 | <jammcq> I think display managers have a way of resetting the Xserver without it restarting
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| 13:32 | <ogra> -noreset
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| 13:32 | prevents a server reset when the last client connection is closed. This overrides a previous -terminate command line
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| 13:32 | option.
| |
| 13:32 | aha
| |
| 13:32 | i was looking at man Xorg
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| 13:32 | <jammcq> what is the definiton of 'server reset' ?
| |
| 13:32 | <ogra> no idea, its in Xserver's manpage
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| 13:35 | just trying in virtualbox
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| 13:40 | hmm, -noreset doesnt help
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| 13:43 | twinprism has quit IRC | |
| 13:44 | <ogra> Gadi, it takes 5 mississippies from clicking the logout buttton to having the greeter back in virtualbox btw
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| 13:44 | <Gadi> heh, if only we could give folks virtual boxes
| |
| 13:44 | ;)
| |
| 13:44 | and fyi: the "while True" works :)
| |
| 13:45 | no more respawning X
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| 13:45 | PMantis has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> that shaves a bit of time
| |
| 13:45 | but not much
| |
| 13:45 | <ogra> how much did that gain you ?
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> maybe 5 seconds
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| 13:45 | not much
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| 13:45 | twinprism has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> most of the delay is launching the greeter
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| 13:46 | <ogra> the greeters first action is to switch the cursor btw ...
| |
| 13:46 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 13:46 | noticed that
| |
| 13:46 | <ogra> so if you see the rotating pizza you're in the greeter
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| 13:46 | <Gadi> it rotates for about 50 seconds
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| 13:46 | :)
| |
| 13:46 | im familiar with its work
| |
| 13:46 | <ogra> from then on it still takes that long ?
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| 13:47 | phew
| |
| 13:47 | <Gadi> about that, yeah
| |
| 13:47 | <ogra> thats strange
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| 13:47 | <Gadi> thats what im keen on helping with
| |
| 13:47 | and its roughly same time whether its on boot or logout
| |
| 13:47 | now, this is xover cable to a slow laptop
| |
| 13:47 | as server
| |
| 13:47 | <ogra> i wonder if you should try out nolapic and noacpi options in your pxe config
| |
| 13:48 | <Gadi> so,maybe on a server, NFS would serve up faster
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| 13:48 | <ogra> well, i'm doing all my work with my lappie as server
| |
| 13:48 | <Gadi> is that 'nolapic' or 'noapic'?
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| 13:48 | <ogra> and i dont see 50 seconds on 500Mhz clients
| |
| 13:48 | <Gadi> (yeah, but my lappy is 5 yrs old)
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| 13:48 | <ogra> lolapic
| |
| 13:48 | heh
| |
| 13:48 | nolapic
| |
| 13:49 | but you can try noapic as well
| |
| 13:49 | <Gadi> ill also try acpi=off and apm=off
| |
| 13:49 | why not?
| |
| 13:49 | <ogra> i cant imagine that 100Mhz should make such a big difference
| |
| 13:49 | <Gadi> nah, its prolly the nfs speed
| |
| 13:49 | in part
| |
| 13:49 | <ogra> do they have any nifty devices builtin ?
| |
| 13:50 | <Gadi> nope
| |
| 13:50 | these are as non-nifty as they come
| |
| 13:50 | <ogra> (i just fund the classmate has a SATA contoller onboard, that slows down the boot a lot)
| |
| 13:50 | <Gadi> this only has a DOM slot and a lil ide
| |
| 13:50 | iirc
| |
| 13:51 | but, at this point, im just talking greeter loading
| |
| 13:51 | <ogra> yeah, indeed
| |
| 13:51 | <Gadi> which is way past device module loading
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| 13:51 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 13:51 | <Gadi> i think its my lappy
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| 13:51 | <ogra> you BIOS values are fine ?
| |
| 13:51 | <Gadi> I need a better lappy or better test environment
| |
| 13:51 | <ogra> on the TC i mean
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| 13:51 | <Gadi> yup
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| 13:59 | <Gadi> ogra: tried it with a faster client (533MHz) and it cuts some 20 secs off the greeter
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| 13:59 | down to ~30-35secs
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| 14:00 | <ogra> still to much
| |
| 14:00 | <Gadi> so, may very well be in part the tc and in part nfs
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| 14:17 | <Guaraldo> !checklist
| |
| 14:17 | <ltspbot> Guaraldo: "checklist" is The checklist for debugging problems with local device access is at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev#Troubleshooting. Please work through all 12 steps, record the results, and paste the results to the pastebot at http://pastebot.ltsp.org
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| 14:23 | <ogra> Gadi, not on relogin ... with ram above the 64M everything should be oaded into ram
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| 14:23 | <petre> mistik1: do you have that link to that udev tutorial handy?
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| 14:36 | <sutula> petre: I wrote down two this morning...not sure if this is what you're looking for:
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| 14:36 | http://webpages.charter.net/decibelshelp/LinuxHelp_UDEVPrimer.html
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| 14:36 | http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html
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| 14:37 | <petre> yes, that's the one. thanks sutula
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| 14:37 | <gepatino> i'm plannig to upgrade an edgy ltsp server to feisty... any considerations on how to upgrade? my concern is how to upgrade the client root
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| 14:42 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: Is it normal to umount CD-ROMs just pressing the eject button on it?
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| 14:43 | sbalneav: Normaly I eject my cds...
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| 14:43 | <sbalneav> Not normally, but thats how we do it on ltsp
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| 14:43 | <Guaraldo> by the icon or by typing eject command...
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| 14:43 | Hummm and is it normal to take some time (about 5 secs)?
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| 14:43 | <sbalneav> We wanted to emulate the way it's normally done in the windows world.
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| 14:44 | well, it won't allow you to eject until at least 2 seconds of inactivity.
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| 14:45 | <Guaraldo> hummm...
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| 14:45 | sbalneav: Ok... thanks!
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| 14:53 | <mistik1> petre: http://www.reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html
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| 15:17 | <avoine> Hi, It's possible to run Xorg on a ltsp server without a physical screen?
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| 15:17 | <sutula> Avatara: Sure
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| 15:18 | drat...avoine ^^^
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| 15:18 | <avoine> oh
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| 15:18 | ok
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| 15:19 | <vagrantc> avoine: what exactly do you mean?
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| 15:19 | <sutula> avoine: I assume there's more behind your question
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| 15:20 | <avoine> I want a ltsp server running with Xen on a virtual machine
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> you don't need to run Xorg on the server at all, normally.
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| 15:21 | <avoine> and I'm asking if it's possible to start X without a real screen
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| 15:21 | <vagrantc> well, on the LTSP server, you don't normally need to run Xorg
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| 15:22 | <avoine> ok
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| 15:23 | <sutula> avoine: If you're really trying to run XDMCP on the server, you'll probably need some options in e.g. gdm.conf to tell it not to open a local screen
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| 15:24 | <avoine> ok
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| 15:50 | <joebaker> Can anybody point me to the syntax for specifying auto login over XDMCP within gdm?
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| 15:51 | I've been used to doing this through KDM.
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| 15:51 | But after switching to ubuntu, I'm now using gdm.
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| 15:54 | I've found this:
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| 15:54 | http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Q1Op6sM54BwJ:www.thealbertalibrary.ab.ca/files/FriE1.ppt+ltsp.org+gdm.conf+auto+login&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a
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| 15:54 | AllowRemoteAutoLogin=true
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| 16:02 | <joebaker> I think I might just switch to KDM It's a very simple way to authenticate users against their MAC addresses.
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| 16:11 | <test__> hi, whats wrong in this dhcpd.conf ? I want PXE booting http://pastebin.ca/495613
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| 16:14 | <ogra> root-path is missing
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| 16:14 | <test__> ogra, root path for ltsp? what about if I want a generic pxe booting?
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| 16:15 | <ogra> well your initramfs needs to know what nfsroot to mount
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| 16:15 | root-path holds the path info for that
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| 16:16 | <test__> ogra, when I uncomment the lines 21 to 29, it works well
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| 18:17 | <jammcq> Qiot
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| 18:17 | oops :)
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| 19:15 | <VladimirBG> hello
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| 19:15 | is is posible to have 3d desktop effects on a thin client, and if so, does the 3d card needs to be in the server or in clients?
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| 19:15 | is it*
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| 19:16 | <VladimirBG> anyone?
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| 19:17 | * VladimirBG pokes sleepy people | |
| 19:25 | <VladimirBG> please, can anyone answer?
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| 19:27 | <gepatino> hi
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| 19:27 | <gepatino> VladimirBG: can i help you somehow?
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| 19:28 | <VladimirBG> is it posible to have 3d desktop effects on a thin client, and if so, does the 3d card needs to be in the server or in clients?
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| 19:29 | <gepatino> i've never tried, but you should have the 3d card at the clients
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| 19:29 | since all the 'drawing' is done there
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| 19:30 | you should also install the video card modules in the nfs share that servers as root file system for the clients
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| 19:30 | mm... nice question..
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| 19:30 | now i file like testing it :)
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| 19:30 | but i won't have access to a ltsp server till tuesday :(
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| 19:31 | <VladimirBG> so drivers need to be installed on the server, and config set in ltsp client config file for each clients graphics hardware?
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| 19:33 | <gepatino> yes
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| 19:34 | in the ltsp config file, you can specify the modules you need to load.
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| 19:34 | maybe you could put there the drivers for the 3d card
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| 19:36 | <VladimirBG> hmmm, now if only someone produced small form factor thin clients with some basic 3d chip, like intel maybe(OS drivers)
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| 19:37 | would be nice if someone added howto to ltsp's wiki on 3d on clients
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| 19:38 | <gepatino> that would be really nice
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| 19:38 | if i have some time, maybe next week (or the other) could make some tests
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| 19:39 | but all my terminals have really old video cards
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| 19:39 | no 3d... :(
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| 19:39 | <VladimirBG> :(
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| 19:39 | <gepatino> try again later in this channel... it seems to be that all the wizards are gone :)
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| 19:39 | <VladimirBG> I'm relatively inexperienced, so I doubt I could set it up
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| 19:40 | alone that is
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| 19:41 | will do, I mean it would be interesting to see a cheap thin client do eyecandy better than vista :P
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| 19:43 | also, I take it I can use different kernels on the server, for example, PPC, i686 and K7?
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| 19:47 | <gepatino> on the server you always run the same kernel
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| 19:47 | and that has to match the architecture of the server
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| 19:47 | then, for the clients
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| 19:47 | you could load different kernels for each one
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| 19:48 | but the default i386 kernel works on almost any pc
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| 19:49 | <VladimirBG> so basically server needs skill in setting up(to match all the client hardware properly), but clients are just start and run
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| 19:49 | ?
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| 19:50 | <gepatino> well.. server is not that hard to setup, and yes... you don't to setup anything at the client (just network boot)
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| 19:51 | <VladimirBG> hmmm, nice
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| 19:51 | <gepatino> the server hosts al the clients configuration
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| 19:51 | if the client breaks, dump it, plug a new one, and that's all
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| 19:51 | just works® :)
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| 19:53 | <VladimirBG> I take it server need to be in failsafe category with hot-swapable HDDs (in RAID) and hotswapable CPUs for business application?
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| 19:54 | <gepatino> it depends on how critical the applications are
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| 19:54 | at the office, we don't have that much
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| 19:55 | <VladimirBG> but if server goes, everything goes?
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| 19:55 | <gepatino> and there are five persons programing on the same ltsp server
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| 19:55 | evry day
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| 19:55 | yes, if the server fails, you're stuck
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| 19:55 | but you have to balance price+security
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| 19:56 | <VladimirBG> can 2 servers be used if one fails, the second could kick in?
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| 19:56 | (failsafe servers cost a mint)
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| 19:56 | <gepatino> only if you set a high availability cluster
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| 19:56 | and never tried it with ltsp, but should work
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| 19:57 | <VladimirBG> so, if I set up a high availability cluster with 2 servers, if one fails the other will continue working?
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| 19:57 | and data is synced between their HDDs?
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| 19:58 | sorry I'm bugging you, I just want to set up thin clients at my uni
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| 19:58 | they are about to buy new computers, and are skeptic about thin clients
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| 19:59 | <gepatino> in that case, the best (imho) would be:
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| 19:59 | two servers in HA cluster
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| 19:59 | and a net area storage
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| 20:00 | the servers mounting the file system from the storage, so the data keeps always up to date
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| 20:01 | <VladimirBG> hmmm, and I take it I should use really fast network connection with data storage, like a gigabit link?
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| 20:02 | <gepatino> shure
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| 20:02 | sorry.. i have to go now... the pizza is waiting for me
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| 20:03 | to get used to ltsp, i recomend to try first with a single server
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| 20:03 | <VladimirBG> ok, thanks, you helped me quite a bit
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| 20:03 | :)
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| 20:03 | I tried with edubuntu
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| 20:03 | I like it
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| 20:03 | <gepatino> the server should have much memory
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| 20:04 | about 128Mb per client
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| 20:04 | plus 256 for the server
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| 20:04 | and if its multi-cpu or multi-core, the best
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| 20:04 | with that, and a 100Mbps switched network, you're done
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| 20:05 | with a 2Gb RAM server, you should be able to serve a dozen clients or so
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| 20:06 | well... see you later...
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| 20:06 | <VladimirBG> so, a quadcore intel with HT and 8GB should be able to run a number of PCs?
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| 20:06 | bye
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| 20:07 | <gepatino> with that amount of ram... maybe four dozen of clients... in that case, think about a gigabit ethernet for the server
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| 20:07 | since it will generate a lot of traffic
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| 20:07 | the clients can be 100mbit
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| 20:07 | good luck!
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| 21:11 | <jammcq> hello
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| 21:27 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 21:28 | <jammcq> !s
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| 21:28 | <ltspbot> jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 21:28 | <sbalneav> Evening jammcq
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