IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 July 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:28 | <muppis> alkisg, ah. There you are at last. If you remember, which I doubt ;), I had a problem with muted sound in client which was annoying as being htpc client, but I located it to be hw problem as locally installed Ubuntu got same symptoms.
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| 05:31 | <alkisg> Hi muppis. And?
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| 05:32 | <muppis> alkisg, so I think I had to get better mobo. :)
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| 05:32 | <alkisg> Ah, I thought you fixed it :D
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| 05:33 | <muppis> Not yet. Just noticed it last weekend when had little time for it. :)
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| 05:33 | <alkisg> lspci -nn -k, see the pci id, and google for it with "ubuntu" in the search string :)
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| 05:34 | <muppis> I'll try that. Just got more important things to get fixed right now. Have to change an engine to my car. :)
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| 05:35 | <alkisg> Hehe. OK, good luck with that, /me goes back to writing delphi programs for his phd.. :-/
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| 05:35 | <muppis> :(
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| 07:46 | <Hyperbyte> Morning. :)
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| 08:26 | <Hyperbyte> Hm... while booting the thin client with 'splash' disabled, I see one red "fail" in the list of things starting up
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| 08:27 | It disappears quite fast, as it's near the end of the startup... but I believe it's something like the 'regular background processing daemon'
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| 08:27 | Is this normal behaviour?
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| 08:30 | <Hyperbyte> Hrm, it's actually called the 'regular background program processing daemon', and I believe that's Ubuntu's nickname for cron... or at least that's what I gather from Google
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| 08:31 | Why would my thin client be trying to start cron?
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| 08:39 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: cron is enabled by default, some people even put automatic shutdown scripts on cron lins
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| 08:39 | lines
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| 08:39 | It's even configurable from lts.conf, see the man page
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| 08:39 | * alkisg disables cron by default because he doesn't like update-apt-xapian-index etc running on thin/fat clients | |
| 08:40 | <alkisg> CRONTAB_01..CRONTAB_10
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| 08:40 | string, default unset
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| 08:40 | A crontab line to add for a thin client.
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| 08:41 | <Hyperbyte> I think I misread, the 'fail' line isn't about cron but another daemon. :\
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| 08:42 | Why the 'fail' has to be on the complete right and the program on the complete left is beyond me, makes it impossible to see which fail/ok belongs with what program... but alas.
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| 08:42 | Thanks for the cron tip.
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| 08:42 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: using dmesg or `cat /dev/vcs7` might help you see the message
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| 08:42 | <Hyperbyte> I'm having a much bigger problem at the moment, after running ltsp-update-image --arch i386...
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| 08:43 | I'm getting kernel panics on the thin client. "not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown wn-block(8,1)"
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| 08:43 | NBD problem, right?
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| 08:43 | <alkisg> 11.04? no nbd-proxy there, right?
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| 08:43 | <Hyperbyte> Don't think so, no
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| 08:44 | <alkisg> Does this work? sudo mount -o loop /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img /mnt
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| 08:44 | (server)
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| 08:44 | <Hyperbyte> yessir
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| 08:44 | <alkisg> Hm... ok, unmount it
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| 08:44 | <Hyperbyte> Already done. :)
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| 08:45 | Could I 'service nbd restart' with clients logged in?
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| 08:45 | <alkisg> There's an option in nbd-server about this
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| 08:45 | In dpkg-reconfigure nbd-server
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| 08:45 | It asks whether it should disconnect clients on nbd restarts etc
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| 08:46 | So it depends on what you put there. And I don't know how inetd relates to that.
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| 08:46 | So ... nah, don't try it :)
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| 08:46 | <Hyperbyte> I actually don't think I run nbd via inetd
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| 08:46 | <alkisg> LTSP does, unless you modified it
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| 08:47 | Hyperbyte: whenever you get a kernel update on the chroot, and you run ltsp-update-image, you also need to run ltsp-update-kernels - did you?
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| 08:47 | I.e. the initrd in the tftp dir should have the same kernel as the nbd disk
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| 08:48 | <Hyperbyte> I ran the dpkg-reconfigure nbd-server command, but cancelled after you suggested it didn't work
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| 08:48 | It said stopping nbd server. =)
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| 08:48 | But I run nbd as a server, not via inetd
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| 08:48 | Didn't know LTSP did that. Does it make much difference?
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> Not much. So, grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf returns nothing for you?
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| 08:49 | <Hyperbyte> Oh it's there
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| 08:49 | The thing is
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| 08:49 | <Hyperbyte> Month or so ago I installed xinetd, to test something on Ubuntu
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| 08:50 | It automatically removed inetd for me, and then nbd didn't work anymore... I figured LTSP might use inetd
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| 08:50 | <vagrantc> aha
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| 08:50 | <Hyperbyte> But a service nbd start fixed it.. so I didn't give it much more thought until now.
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| 08:50 | Should I reverse some things? :)
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| 08:50 | <vagrantc> we need to switch to named NBD devices, and then can probably switch to the regular NBD again
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> Better revert to the defaults, it's always easier for troubleshooting :)
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| 08:51 | vagrantc ++ :)
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| 08:51 | Both of them on the same ltsp release would be better
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| 08:51 | And we can also completely stop depending on inetd :D
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| 08:52 | (I think stgraber had some small modifications for ldminfod to act as standalone)
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| 08:52 | <Hyperbyte> Is it okay for troubleshooting if I leave it without inetd for now? ;)
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| 08:53 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: hehe sure I don't have problems when people say they have customized setups *before* the troubleshooting process :P
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| 08:53 | <vagrantc> ldminfod as standalone... curious
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| 08:53 | <Hyperbyte> Well, I realize. =)
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| 08:53 | <vagrantc> running from inetd is pretty flexible, though ... and get a lot of services for free such as logging ... not sure moving it out of inetd is a good idea
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| 08:54 | <Hyperbyte> My biggest failure in all this was... I need some xinetd like functionality... and Fedora uses xinetd by default, not inetd... didn't even know there was anything else. So I just did an apt-get install xinetd. Beginner's mistake. =)
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| 08:54 | <vagrantc> Hyperbyte: so you're using nbd-server's init scripts, or running nbdrootd from xinetd?
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| 08:54 | <alkisg> vagrantc: Logging for what? nbd-server? Doesn't nbd-server log already? Or you're only talking about ldminfod?
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| 08:54 | <Hyperbyte> vagrantc, nbdserver init
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| 08:54 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ldminfod logs whenever you get a connect message... which i often find useful with troubleshooting
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| 08:55 | <alkisg> vagrantc: well, adding 1 line for logging would be rather easy, and would save us from depending on inetd
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| 08:55 | <vagrantc> it's such a small dependency ... but whatever.
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| 08:56 | the other thing is that i don't know if nbd-server provides a mechanism to automatically configure what to connect with
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| 08:56 | <Hyperbyte> Meanwhile... how do I get inetd back? :)
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| 08:56 | <alkisg> vagrantc: nope, I think it only provides a configuration file (not even dir)
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| 08:56 | Hyperbyte: apt-get install openbsd-inet ?
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| 08:56 | d
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| 08:56 | ?
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| 08:56 | <Hyperbyte> openbsd-inetd, ah...
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| 08:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'll poke Yoe to fix that.
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| 08:57 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 08:57 | But even as it is, it's no different to modifying inetd.conf
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| 08:58 | And also there's no need for port auto-assignment with named exports
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| 08:58 | We can just say "/opt/ltsp/images/i386.img" in the name section
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| 08:58 | And using that in the root-path of dhcp would also be a good idea imho
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| 08:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no, with inetd, there's update-inetd, which is a policy-compliant mechanism to update /etc/inetd.conf
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> Ah, right
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| 09:00 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, okay... got inetd running, no more kernel panics, now it says can't connect to nbd. Which I can confirm, telnet localhost 2000 = connection refused.
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| 09:00 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: stop the nbd-server, remove the nbd-server configuration file, and start openbsd-inetd
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| 09:00 | Then try again
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| 09:00 | <Hyperbyte> What I find most curious is that all nbd server processes on the LTSP server are gone, but clients are still happily logged in. :)
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| 09:01 | alkisg, I did.
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| 09:01 | inetd is started.
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> Hehe, until they try to access something from the file system
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| 09:01 | <Hyperbyte> nbd-server is off
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| 09:01 | root 24826 0.0 0.0 8392 544 ? Ss 10:57 0:00 /usr/sbin/inetd
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> And grep nbd /var/log/daemon.log while you try telnet shows what?
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| 09:02 | (and you do have 2000 in /etc/inetd.conf, right?)
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| 09:02 | <Hyperbyte> Yes, inetd.conf is default.
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| 09:02 | I have no daemon.log
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| 09:02 | <alkisg> Erm, you mean no nbd messages there? Or no daemon.log at all?
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| 09:03 | Try syslog they should be there too
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| 09:04 | <Hyperbyte> Nothing appears in syslog when I do telnet localhost 2000
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| 09:04 | Hrm
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| 09:04 | inetd isn't listening on 2000, only 2001
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| 09:04 | <alkisg> grep nbd /etc/inetd.conf
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| 09:04 | Results?
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| 09:05 | <Hyperbyte> 9572 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdswapd
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| 09:05 | 2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 09:05 | 2001 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> And also: ls /opt/ltsp/images/
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| 09:05 | Are they both there?
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| 09:05 | <Hyperbyte> i386.img
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> OK, run: sudo ltsp-update-image --force
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| 09:05 | This will automatically fix inetd
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| 09:06 | And update kernels too
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| 09:06 | <Hyperbyte> First line
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| 09:06 | Cannot determine assigned port. Assigning to port 2000.
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| 09:06 | Good I suppose? :)
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| 09:06 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 09:07 | <Hyperbyte> Can telnet localhost 2000 too now
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| 09:09 | And log in. :)
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| 09:09 | Nice one!
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| 09:13 | !lts.conf | tell Hyperbyte
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| 09:15 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, so how would I go about disabling cron on a thin client?
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Delete $CHROOT/etc/init/anacron.conf and cron.conf
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| 09:16 | Or dpkg-divert them to not have to delete them after upgrades too
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| 09:16 | * alkisg would prefer services to be disabled by an initramfs scripts instead of directly modifying the chroot | |
| 09:17 | <alkisg> (speaking generally for ltsp-build-client, not for this cron case)
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| 09:17 | <Hyperbyte> It's the restoring sound card mixer status that says 'fail' by the way.
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/609766
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| 09:18 | Or maybe no, not that one
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| 09:18 | Maybe it's just that the chroot was never booted, so no mixer status was ever saved
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| 09:18 | That's one of the cases where booting the chroot with vbox would help :P
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| 09:19 | <Hyperbyte> =)
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| 09:20 | Any way I can make it stop doing that on startup?
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> Delete that service too?
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| 09:20 | <Hyperbyte> No idea what service it is. :D
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| 09:21 | Ah
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| 09:21 | it's in /etc/init/
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| 09:22 | What's the difference between /etc/init/ and /etc/init.d/ ?
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| 09:22 | <alkisg> upstart vs system v init scripts
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| 09:23 | <Hyperbyte> Ah.
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| 09:25 | All fail's gone. :)
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> Nice :)
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| 09:41 | <Hyperbyte> Can an LDM theme logo have alpha-transparency in it
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| 09:41 | +
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| 09:41 | ?
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| 09:41 | (sorry, my brain isn't working properly this morning)
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| 09:42 | <vagrantc> Hyperbyte: there's an easy way to find out...
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| 09:42 | :)
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| 09:43 | <Hyperbyte> Well not really, because I'm gonna have to bug my boss to get off his PC so I can use photoshop. :)
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: just put a transparent logo on the chroot live, and restart ldm
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| 09:44 | <Hyperbyte> Although I suppose I could search some other alpha transparant png and use that to test... figured someone here might know though. :)
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> No need even to ltsp-update-image...
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| 09:49 | <Hyperbyte> Okay, it supports alpha transparency in PNG's. :) That's nice.
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| 10:48 | <quietone> where do I learn how to set up a thin client? I thought it had to do with the bios, but on an old desktop I saw nothing. I am lost.
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| 10:48 | <Gremble> you need to enable PXE boot quietone
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| 10:49 | <quietone> Gremble, I gather that. But how? Is that a bios setting? If so, I couldn't find it.
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| 10:49 | <Gremble> it's usually enabled in the BIOS yes
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| 10:49 | not all machines have it
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| 10:49 | <quietone> Gremble, is it always called PXE in the BIOS settings?
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| 10:50 | <Gremble> actually it needn't be in the BIOS, but can also be on the ROM on a network card
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| 10:50 | it may be called "network boot" or some such thing
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| 10:50 | but usually there is at least a reference to PXE
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| 10:50 | what machine are you working on?
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| 10:51 | <Gremble> quietone, you can also use etherboot, which can be run from USB,CD,HD whatever
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| 10:51 | <quietone> Gremble, I think the machine was the Dell desktop, don't know it's age.
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| 10:52 | <Gremble> 'was' a Dell desktop? you don't have it present?
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| 10:52 | <quietone> Gremble, sorry (it is close to my bedtime). The machines are at work and I am at home (and rather tired)
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| 10:53 | <Gremble> Dell desktops usually have a network boot / PXE option, but not always
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| 10:53 | good luck with finding it, or sorting out etherboot somehow
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| 10:54 | <quietone> Gremble, my laptop is dell and there is something like 'wake on lan' - would that be it for this machine?
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| 10:55 | <Gremble> no "Wake on LAN" or WOL is a feature that allows a special packet to be sent and literally wake the machine up from being powered off
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| 10:57 | look in the boot options
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| 10:57 | or press the boot menu key if there is one offered
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| 10:58 | <quietone> Gremble, OK. I'll examine my BIOS in the morning.
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| 10:59 | Gremble, and I will give etherboot a try tomorrow.
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| 10:59 | Gremble, Thank you very much for clearing it up for me.
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| 11:01 | <alkisg> quietone: is the card onboard?
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| 11:02 | Usually, onboard cards have pxe rom, and not-onboard-cards only have pxe rom *if* they're expensive
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| 11:02 | Cheap pci cards don't have pxe rom
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| 11:03 | <quietone> alkisg, I don't have a clue. it is just a dell box to me.
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| 11:03 | <alkisg> Onboard = the rj45 jack, the network socket, would be close to the sound holes
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| 11:04 | PCI = it would be on a separate slot, you could see it from the outside of the box
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| 11:04 | Onboard = http://www.overclockersonline.net/images/articles/soyo/dragonultra/ports.jpg
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| 11:07 | <quietone> alkisg, I guess on board then
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| 11:07 | <alkisg> OK, see your bios settings then. There can be up to 3 of them:
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| 11:07 | (1) enable boot rom (2) enable boot from lan (3) boot sequence
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| 11:08 | (other boards might have just 1 or 2 of them)
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| 11:10 | <quietone> alkisg, i don't recall finding 1 or 2 and the boot sequence had the hard drive, CD, and a character string that meant nothing to me
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| 11:10 | <alkisg> LAN?
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| 11:11 | Anyway, it'll be easier if you are in front of the bios while chatting about it, so maybe leave it for tomorrow.
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| 11:11 | <quietone> alkisg, I can check in about 10 hours, when I go back to the office ;-)
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| 11:12 | alkisg, but I take your point, to read carefully
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 11:13 | <quietone> alkisg, thanks, talking always clears things up for me. good night.
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| 11:13 | <alkisg> Good night
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| 11:17 | <andygraybeal> Hyperbyte, gah you said photoshop, my skin melted a little.. gimp gimp gimp!@
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| 11:37 | <Hyperbyte> andygraybeal, no chance man... I tried that.
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| 11:37 | <Hyperbyte> Gimp isn't gonna work for us... we use the entire Creative Suite... meaning Illustrator, Indesign and Photoshop.... we do all our graphic work, brochure making, etc, ourselves
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| 11:38 | It would take years to port everything that's already made (and which we re-use every year) to Photoshop
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| 11:38 | *** to Gimp
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| 11:38 | Plus Gimp and Scribus and OpenOffice just can't match up to the ease of use of CS3...
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| 11:38 | Sorry. :)
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| 11:41 | <andygraybeal> i heart inkscape!
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| 11:42 | couple of weeks ago, i was trying to figure out how to get visio stuff into inky, i'm still working on it.
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| 11:43 | er i mean i never figured it out, and now i'm onto other things, but look forward to going back to that.
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| 11:53 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> I managed to switch all my graphics from photoshop to gimp
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| 12:07 | But I haven't yet had the time to invest in inkscape
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| 12:07 | Also I found openoffice had much more layout power than ms word, even with the occational bugs
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| 12:20 | <Hyperbyte> Compared to Indesign they all kinda suck though. Although it depends on how much of the Indesign features you use. But if you use Creative Suite like we do, there's really not a good open source or even Linux alternative.
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| 12:22 | OpenOffice really rocks though, compared to Microsoft Office. :)
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| 12:29 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: is indesign suitable for writing a whole book? Or only for formatting it after you write it?
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| 12:30 | Also, does it support automatically mirrored images based on odd/even pages? Or, different background images per paragraph? (like css)
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| 12:31 | What I like about openoffice is that once I'm done with my style sheet, I never use the formatting toolbar anymore.
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| 12:32 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I think Indesign supports all that, but it's not really for writing books. It's better for brochures and flyers, which require lots of special formatting.
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, so for books the best so far for me is still openoffice, paid or not
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| 12:33 | I don't like to separate the writing/publishing phase for the manuals etc I write, and it's much better than anything else i've tried
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| 12:33 | <Hyperbyte> For books I would use OpenOffice writer. That's what we use for all our instruction manuals, etc.
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| 12:34 | If you want an example, this is our brochure of last year, which we made in Indesign: http://www.set-reizen.nl/SET-Reizen%20Brochure%20(winter-zomer-2010-2011).pdf
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> Well while I could do the same with any program the point of course is that it would be much, much harder to do it, and unfortunately that doesn't show up in the pdf (how easy or not it was).
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| 12:38 | I believe you though :)
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| 12:39 | <alkisg> Btw the hair of the people on page 3 is cut a little rough, gimp might have done a better job :P :D
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| 12:52 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, actually >I< could've done a better job at it probably, but it was a very low quality photo and I was pressed for time. =)
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| 12:52 | * alkisg was just joking, nm :D | |
| 12:52 | <Hyperbyte> Heheh
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| 14:35 | <autonomicpilot> technical question for LTSP, can anyone help
| |
| 14:35 | ?
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> doh.
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| 14:52 | <Hyperbyte> Wow
| |
| 14:52 | He was patient for exactly.... one minute?
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> some irc channels are constantly active...
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| 14:53 | this is not one of them
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| 14:53 | it used to say something in the topic about being patient and waiting for a response...
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| 15:30 | <layus> Hi
| |
| 15:31 | i was just asking myself if it is possible to use ltsp squashf image and kernels, write them to thin client flash memory, and boot on it ?
| |
| 15:32 | <vagrantc> conceptually, yes... in practice they make some assumptions about how thee system is running
| |
| 15:32 | so you might have to ttweak a few things
| |
| 15:32 | <layus> is the kernel tweaked ? or initrd ?
| |
| 15:33 | anyway thanks :-) I'll try this tomorow
| |
| 15:34 | <alkisg> It's tweaked
| |
| 15:34 | It won't boot without modifications
| |
| 15:34 | But why would you try that?
| |
| 15:34 | * alkisg wants to do that for fat clients, with e.g. 5 Gb nbd images, which only require a little network traffic, but doesn't think it helps with thin clients | |
| 15:34 | <vagrantc> i've long wondered about doinng something similar to TCOS with LTSP ... it should basically work
| |
| 15:35 | <alkisg> I've seen .iso CDs that can boot ltsp clients
| |
| 15:35 | And local hd images, from some university
| |
| 15:35 | <vagrantc> there was also a project in brazil that did that
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| 15:35 | loading a thin-client image into ram ...
| |
| 15:36 | that way the boot server could be really low resource once they were booted
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| 15:36 | <layus> in fact that would prevent complete service shutdown in cases where our ltsp-server is down.
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc> dealing with thousands of thin-clients froma single server
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| 15:36 | <layus> sounds interresting too :)
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> Yeah copying the whole image to RAM sounds better suited to layus' use case
| |
| 15:37 | <vagrantc> obviously, it needed powerful application servers
| |
| 15:37 | right
| |
| 15:37 | <alkisg> But of course the client session would collapse; and in the best case the client would fallback to ldm
| |
| 15:38 | <vagrantc> seems to make more sense with fatclients ... although LTSP style fatclients still use the server for homedirs, typically
| |
| 15:38 | <alkisg> Some wireless nfs link is enough for nfs home dir on the server
| |
| 15:38 | So for students bringing in laptops to their schools, it would suit them fine
| |
| 15:38 | <vagrantc> could also fall back to a kiosk if the server gets disconnected
| |
| 15:38 | <alkisg> Or for computer labs with awful local networks
| |
| 15:39 | <vagrantc> all sorts of interesting possibilities :)
| |
| 15:40 | <layus> in fact, we have got many working servers, for scientists...
| |
| 15:40 | an they connect to them with teir thin client
| |
| 15:40 | but the nbd server is just a virtual one
| |
| 15:40 | <vagrantc> dare i say it, an RDP-oriented network
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| 15:41 | <layus> ... :)
| |
| 15:41 | <vagrantc> that would be a use-ccase that makes sense
| |
| 15:41 | <dingz> how do you want to make sure, students only mount their own homedir via wireless NFS?
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| 15:41 | <layus> but our ndb server is just a virtual one (vmware)
| |
| 15:41 | <alkisg> But why would one use ltsp in this case, instead of e.g. a very light/small tinycorelinux?
| |
| 15:42 | Which wouldn't need any modifications, and wouldn't take much ram for its image?
| |
| 15:42 | <layus> no reason, but ltsp is easy to use and has many scripts to connect to both rdp and xdmcp
| |
| 15:43 | and because i have only 150M of flash memory...
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> That's a reason *not* to use ltsp
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| 15:43 | <layus> y
| |
| 15:43 | <vagrantc> ltsp will push the limits of that 150M, if that's enough at all
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> The ltsp image is >200 mb, while tinycorelinux is < 50 mb
| |
| 15:43 | (i mean, the stock ubuntu one, compressed)
| |
| 15:44 | Maybe you can get it to fit at 150, but that's stretching it
| |
| 15:45 | <vagrantc> plus the uncompressed kernel+initrd
| |
| 15:45 | well, the vmlinuz+initrd
| |
| 15:45 | <layus> i use the debian one, and, yes, it's hard to stretch
| |
| 15:46 | if we use ltsp, it's for it's central configuration scheme.
| |
| 15:46 | one file to configure everything.
| |
| 15:46 | the os would only be a rescue solution.
| |
| 15:47 | but it seems hard... maybe we buy some more flash memory
| |
| 15:47 | * alkisg had local knoppix installations for situations when the ltsp server was down But ever since meeting debian/lxde, I've decided I want that for local installations instead :) | |
| 15:48 | <alkisg> It even works with < 64MB RAM!
| |
| 15:48 | I'm starting with passing "single" on the command line, and then only invoke whatever services I really need
| |
| 15:49 | <layus> yes, but we have to reconfigure it to enable connection to some servers and no local access
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> Well the users won't have root, so it shouldn't matter if they had local access to the read-only 150 mb
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| 15:50 | <layus> because even in case of failure, we want no user modifying things locally, nor trying to connect to random servers names
| |
| 15:50 | <alkisg> Ah so LDM is handy there, instead of writing your own set of scripts for that
| |
| 15:51 | <layus> yes
| |
| 15:52 | I still can't figure how to fit a debian/lxde in 64 MB
| |
| 15:53 | <alkisg> I'm using recycled desktops, so they have 1 to 6 Gb local disks
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| 15:53 | That's why I suggested tinycorelinux, it would fit there easily
| |
| 15:53 | Ah sorry
| |
| 15:54 | <vagrantc> 64MB of ram, not disk
| |
| 15:54 | ?
| |
| 15:54 | <alkisg> Correct: for local disks, I don't have a size problem, because of the above ^
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> and for RAM, passing single in the command line gets you with only 8 mb ram used
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| 15:54 | su'ing to some user and starting X, gets you to a little below 30 RAM
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| 15:55 | And you have about 30 more for some basic programs
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| 15:55 | <layus> that's ok
| |
| 15:55 | for sure
| |
| 15:56 | so i have to look to tinycorelinux
| |
| 15:56 | is it easy to use ?
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> Dillo with 30 MB RAM: http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=164967
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| 15:57 | tinycorelinux has some learning curve
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| 15:58 | <layus> :)
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Ah you may also want to look at slitaz
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| 15:58 | Both are actively maintained and aim at low disk space
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| 15:58 | <layus> thx
| |
| 15:59 | just remembered another cool stuf with ltsp.
| |
| 15:59 | it allows network booting
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> Tinycorelinuz does that too
| |
| 16:00 | It's just a kernel + initrd, loaded into ram
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| 16:00 | So it doesn't matter where it boots from
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| 16:00 | <layus> jes, but how to write it in the thin client ?
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> And to add programs, you concantenate packages to the initrd
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| 16:00 | <layus> ah... full initrd install then.
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Boot some os from the network, either ltsp or tinycorelinux, and copy it to the local disk
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| 16:01 | <layus> seems i lack many knowledge
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> It's just 2 files
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Of course you'll need a local boot manager
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| 16:01 | <layus> oki
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| 16:01 | like grub ?
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 16:01 | I think it has a local installation icon too
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| 16:02 | Which does that semi-automatically
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| 16:02 | <layus> k, i will try this, wich seems pretty interresting. ( but tomorrow :)
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| 16:02 | thanks a lot
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 16:03 | <layus> oh, and i made a little script that allows to use idesk within ltsp
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| 16:03 | i ll post it on the forum
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| 16:04 | it's just a small modification of the screen.d/menu script
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| 16:04 | but it issues "openvt" before any connection call
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| 16:04 | so any connection opens in anoter vt, allowing user to open many connections from the same menu
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| 16:05 | and the menu is always rechable with ctrl+alt+F1
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> Heh. The main reason KMS was developed was for increased stability, right? :-/
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| 16:08 | My intel graphics card crashes 1 out of 3 times when I switch to other vts. I need to disable the alt+ctrl+xx combinations to remember about it... :D
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| 16:12 | * highvoltage isn't really happy with the latest intel driver either | |
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| 18:03 | <TheMatrix3000> can i set in the lts.conf a ntp server from outside my network
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| 18:03 | like 0.pool.ntp.org
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| 18:04 | and have the local-apps use it
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| 18:04 | ltsp-localapps use that ntp server
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| 18:09 | <Hyperbyte> TheMatrix3000, you can, if the clients have access to it
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| 18:10 | <TheMatrix3000> ok that would be nice, cause for some reason when i did a sudo apt-get install ntp on the ltsp server it ntp isn't being hosted by it
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| 18:10 | <Hyperbyte> Well then you better fix that
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| 18:10 | <TheMatrix3000> like i just can't get anything to successfully query ntp on it and update time
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| 18:10 | <Hyperbyte> Rather than work with the wrong around
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| 18:10 | <TheMatrix3000> from the ltsp server
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| 18:10 | <Hyperbyte> *workaround
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| 18:11 | <TheMatrix3000> well, how do you fix something so simple?
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| 18:11 | <Hyperbyte> I don't think an external timeserver is gonna appreciate a whole bunch of client simulteneous polling it
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| 18:11 | Start by typing 'ntpq'
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| 18:11 | <TheMatrix3000> all i had to do was a sudo apt-get install ntp
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| 18:11 | am i missing something
| |
| 18:11 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/InstallNTPServer
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| 18:11 | that's what i am following
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| 18:12 | <Hyperbyte> ncd209:11 <Hyperbyte> Start by typing 'ntpq'
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| 18:12 | And then type 'pe'
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| 18:12 | <TheMatrix3000> that works
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| 18:13 | works
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| 18:13 | i have 5 servers in the list
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| 18:13 | help
| |
| 18:13 | eek wrong window
| |
| 18:13 | sorry
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| 18:13 | <Hyperbyte> :o
| |
| 18:13 | Pastebin the 'pe' output, also pastebin /etc/ntp.conf
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| 18:14 | <TheMatrix3000> trying to see what all was in ntpq that i could use to figure this out
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| 18:14 | http://pastebin.com/wTE2MS4T
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| 18:15 | http://pastebin.com/hmxzVmRa
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| 18:16 | <alkisg> There was a bug in the ltsp initscripts that made some clients fail to set the time from any ntp server. It was solved recently upstream in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1816
| |
| 18:16 | <Hyperbyte> :(
| |
| 18:16 | !alkisg
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| 18:16 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail..
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| 18:17 | <TheMatrix3000> lol
| |
| 18:17 | !Hyperbyte
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| 18:17 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000: Error: "Hyperbyte" is not a valid command.
| |
| 18:17 | <Hyperbyte> :((
| |
| 18:17 | <alkisg> Meh I wanted to change that to some warning from the Oracle to Hyperbyte but I didn't get a chance to do it yet :D
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| 18:17 | <TheMatrix3000> !Matrix3000
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| 18:17 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000: Error: "Matrix3000" is not a valid command.
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| 18:17 | <TheMatrix3000> !ltsp
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| 18:17 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000: ltsp: LTSP is the Linux Terminal Server Project, the open source thin client solution. You can find it at http://www.ltsp.org.
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| 18:17 | <TheMatrix3000> !ntp
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| 18:17 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000: I do not know about 'ntp', but I do know about these similar topics: 'nx', 'nfs'
| |
| 18:18 | <Hyperbyte> Please stop
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| 18:18 | <TheMatrix3000> haha
| |
| 18:18 | k
| |
| 18:18 | <Hyperbyte> If you want to peek around the database, use /msg ltsp whatis #ltsp <term>
| |
| 18:18 | Or, !topics
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| 18:18 | !topics | echo TheMatrix3000
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| 18:18 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000 topics: To get a list of topics, type ltspbot: factoids search --values.
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| 18:19 | <TheMatrix3000> alkisg: where is that file?
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| 18:19 | i see client/initscripts/ltsp-init-common
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| 18:19 | but where is that in what top directory
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> TheMatrix3000: which version are you using? 11.04 without any PPAs?
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| 18:19 | <TheMatrix3000> 11.04
| |
| 18:19 | no ppa
| |
| 18:19 | standard install
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| 18:19 | <alkisg> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -L ltsp-client-core | grep ltsp-init-common
| |
| 18:20 | That's how you see where package files are
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| 18:23 | <TheMatrix3000> http://pastebin.com/j2njuUgH
| |
| 18:23 | looks fine
| |
| 18:23 | that's whats already in there
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> The commit date is: Date: 2011-04-11 17:45:47
| |
| 18:24 | So I don't believe it's part of the stock 11.04 that you say you hae
| |
| 18:24 | have
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| 18:24 | <TheMatrix3000> i did run an update
| |
| 18:24 | but that pastbin is my current file
| |
| 18:24 | or the set_time() in the ltsp-init-common
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> Or not
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| 18:25 | Yeah you're right, 11.04 has ltsp 5.2.8
| |
| 18:25 | Release 2011-4-13, so it contains the ntp fix
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| 18:25 | OK, go on with your troubleshooting process, that wasn't your problem.
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| 18:25 | <Hyperbyte> :P
| |
| 18:25 | <alkisg> :)
| |
| 18:26 | Can't win them all :D
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| 18:26 | <Hyperbyte> Hehehe
| |
| 18:26 | <TheMatrix3000> right
| |
| 18:27 | <Hyperbyte> Do you have access to a local shell on a client?
| |
| 18:27 | (root shell)
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| 18:27 | !screen_02 | echo TheMatrix3000
| |
| 18:27 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000 screen_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
| |
| 18:28 | <TheMatrix3000> well i can't even get a sync to ntp from a windows machine
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| 18:28 | <Hyperbyte> Do that, then pastebin the output of getltscfg -a and ntpdate <server ip>
| |
| 18:28 | <TheMatrix3000> so maybe its a bigger issue that i may need to go in #ubuntu for
| |
| 18:28 | <Hyperbyte> It's your party, but I've set up LTSP quite a few times.
| |
| 18:28 | *** NTP
| |
| 18:28 | LTSP once. =)
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| 18:28 | <TheMatrix3000> lol
| |
| 18:29 | <Hyperbyte> Plus Windows is no indication.
| |
| 18:29 | You use ntpdate to sync with ntpd, and if that works you can try Windows.
| |
| 18:29 | <TheMatrix3000> bbt shouldn't windows be able to bring up or sync to ntpd
| |
| 18:29 | k
| |
| 18:30 | booting up the thin client now
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| 18:30 | <Hyperbyte> Windows won't give you any useful error message whatsoever if it can't sync, so it's useless for finding out what's wrong.
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| 18:31 | <TheMatrix3000> it says getltscfg is currently not installed
| |
| 18:31 | thats running a term on thin client
| |
| 18:32 | ah, i need to do ltsp-localapps xterm
| |
| 18:33 | <Hyperbyte> eh
| |
| 18:33 | That won't get you a root shell
| |
| 18:33 | Did you read what I just linked you to?
| |
| 18:33 | !screen_02 | echo TheMatrix3000
| |
| 18:33 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000 screen_02: to get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN.
| |
| 18:36 | <TheMatrix3000> ha even an ntpdate from another machine doesn't work with that server
| |
| 18:36 | i did it while i was working on setting up the new lts.cong
| |
| 18:36 | lts.conf*
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| 18:39 | <Hyperbyte> Do I have to repeat the part where you pastebin the output of both commands, or are you working on that? :)
| |
| 18:42 | <TheMatrix3000> i think i got it
| |
| 18:42 | maybe i just had to wait a while
| |
| 18:46 | <Hyperbyte> If an ntpd server isn't synced, it'll reject other attempts to sync with it.
| |
| 18:46 | It should've said so in the ntpdate error message that you are refusing to pastebin, if that's the case. =)
| |
| 18:47 | <TheMatrix3000> haha, sorry im retarded
| |
| 18:47 | http://pastebin.com/mWa5Mjnr
| |
| 18:47 | that is the script i should use right
| |
| 18:47 | for my /etc/ltsp/ntpdate
| |
| 18:48 | <Hyperbyte> Script?
| |
| 18:48 | <TheMatrix3000> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/InstallNTPServer
| |
| 18:48 | tells you to make a ntpdate file in that directory
| |
| 18:49 | <Hyperbyte> **** This page is specific to Ubuntu versions 8.04
| |
| 18:49 | <TheMatrix3000> haha
| |
| 18:49 | well how would you do it then?
| |
| 18:49 | <Hyperbyte> Listen, Matrix... I wanna help you with this, but you're gonna have to read what I write - and then do that, ok?
| |
| 18:49 | <TheMatrix3000> well i have the NTP server working
| |
| 18:49 | now what do I need to sync clients to it
| |
| 18:50 | so ltsp-localapps is time accurate
| |
| 18:50 | <Hyperbyte> ntpdate <server ip> works?
| |
| 18:50 | <TheMatrix3000> yes
| |
| 18:50 | <Hyperbyte> Okay
| |
| 18:50 | Then just getltscfg -a please
| |
| 18:50 | On pastebin
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| 18:50 | On the thin client
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| 18:59 | <TheMatrix3000> http://pastebin.com/LKCA82jY
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| 18:59 | <Hyperbyte> And it doesn't timesync currently, on startup?
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| 19:00 | <TheMatrix3000> ltsp-localapps firefox does not show correct time
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| 19:00 | <Hyperbyte> Try ltsp-localapps xterm and then typing 'date'
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| 19:00 | Probably give the same result, but a much better way of checking.
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| 19:01 | Disable the Ubuntu splash screen for the thin clients, see what it says about ntpdate during boot
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| 19:01 | !quiet-splash | echo TheMatrix3000
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| 19:01 | <ltsp> TheMatrix3000 quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash ..
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| 19:05 | <TheMatrix3000> ah, nvm
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| 19:05 | i guess it works now
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| 19:08 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> the clock updating code had some race condition issues
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| 19:11 | * alkisg suggested that too, but apparently the fix was included in ubuntu 11.04 | |
| 19:12 | <TheMatrix3000> anyone know what "flush-0:21" is
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| 19:12 | the process
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| 19:22 | <abeehc> kernel garbage collection or somethign along those lines
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| 19:22 | somethign you probly don't wqanna mess with
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| 21:27 | <Hyperbyte> mhmm
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| 23:44 | <warren> stgraber, your latest ldm commits broke python2
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| 23:44 | stgraber, python-2.6.6
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| 23:45 | stgraber, python3 is a different language, if you want to rely on it, put in entirely different scripts.
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| 23:46 | stgraber, respectfully, I'm backing out your change.
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| 23:46 | stgraber, since it breaks build on pretty much every distro.
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