IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 May 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:51 | <mrtux> Hi. Every time I try to build an image (i386) it fails due couldn't download package: xyz ... If I retry it I get the same error but a different that couldn't be downloaded.. I tried it several times now ... any suggestions? I'm on a amd64 Server Ubuntu 16.04
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| 13:41 | <sbalneav> Man, writing a pam module is triiiiiicky
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| 14:47 | <meaurieati> Got some problems building i386 on amd64. Anytime I try to build an image some packages won't load. If i try it a second time other packages (some of them may be found and downloaded the last time) won't download. Any ideas on that?
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| 14:58 | <||cw> meaurieati: sounds like a connection issue. also, whatever ubuntu archive mirror I'm on today is running slow as hell, 152KB/s when I usually get 1MB/s or so (only a 10Mbit connection)
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| 14:59 | <meaurieati> so I just should keep on trying? :)
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| 15:00 | <||cw> I guess. it's one of the reasons I run apt-cacher-ng
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| 15:01 | I did a 386 client on amd64 server a couple weeks ago with no issues, so i don't think it's a software issue
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| 15:01 | also was on a different lan, no apt-cache there
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| 15:02 | <meaurieati> okay. i'll keep on trying. perhaps tomorrow or later on it'll work fine for me.
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| 16:02 | <quinox> I also encountered a really slow Ubuntu mirror yesterday
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> meaurieati: ltsp-build-client --mount-package-cache <other-params>
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| 16:11 | This keeps the packages in cache, so you have better chanches each time it fails
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| 16:18 | <meaurieati> I tried --keep-packages and --cache-packages ... thanks for your help.. will try it right now
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| 16:27 | alkisg thank you very much. obviously its working fine!
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| 16:39 | <meaurieati> is there any possibility for a client to choose between i386 and amd64. Is there any option to set up the dhcp.conf like if arc="i386" filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"; else filename "ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.0"?
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| 16:41 | <vagrantc> there's no option out of the box, although there is some kernel detection support for architectures that support both i386 and amd64 kernels
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| 16:42 | you can set up a custom pxelinux.cfg dir that will autodetect and allow you to select a different chroot/image to boot
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| 16:42 | using ifcpu4
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| 16:42 | and there is some support for doing that from dhcp as well, but i'd recommend using ifcpu64 instead.
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| 16:44 | <meaurieati> thank you. I'll try it on tomorrow
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| 17:37 | <Leolo_2> wooo! I got LDM working on CentOS 6 with NFS
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| 17:37 | it only took patching openssh :-)
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| 17:37 | now to see if I can get nbd working
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> Leolo_2: you're probably the first to do that in many years!
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| 17:39 | <Leolo_2> the problem is that ssh needs to create the control socket in an atomic way. so it does bind/listen on a temporary socket, then it does link(temp,final); unlink(temp); but that fails with unionfs
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| 17:39 | but change the link/unlink to rename() and it works
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| 17:40 | <Hyperbyte> Leolo_2, isn't another problem that CentOS 6 is quite... old?
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| 17:41 | <Leolo_2> old, but not dead
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| 17:41 | but being old isn't a problem. I know my way around CentOS 6
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| 17:41 | <Hyperbyte> Well sure
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| 17:42 | But for a good user experience, you'd need to keep things like Firefox, LibreOffice, etc up to date, no?
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| 17:42 | That's a lot of work.
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| 17:43 | <Leolo_2> CentOS 6 still uses openoffice
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| 17:43 | and firefox is at 38.7.0
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| 17:43 | sorry, make that 45.1.0
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| 17:43 | <gehidore> I tried to install open office just a week ago only to realize it had been so long since I used it that it had been forked, I assume, to libreoffice
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| 17:44 | Name : firefox
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| 17:44 | Version : 46.0.1-1
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| 17:44 | is 45.1.0 that old?
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| 17:45 | <Leolo_2> no
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| 17:45 | <gehidore> everything else is just old ?
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| 17:45 | :P
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| 17:45 | <Leolo_2> I am currently 100% fine with my users using openoffice and not libreoffice
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| 18:46 | <maldridge> gehidore: I don't think it was forked, I think they just changed the name to better reflect the project goals
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> it was definitely forked
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| 18:49 | oracle acquired openoffice.org and did some questionable licensing changes
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| 18:50 | <maldridge> ah
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| 19:16 | <sbalneav> !paste
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| 19:16 | <ltsp> paste: try !pastebot
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| 19:16 | <sbalneav> !pastebot
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| 19:16 | <ltsp> pastebot: try !pastebin
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| 19:16 | <sbalneav> BWAHAHA
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| 19:16 | !pastebin
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| 19:16 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> !learn paste as the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> !paste
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| 19:19 | <ltsp> paste: (#1) try !pastebot, or (#2) the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> !forget paste 1
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| 19:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> !paste
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| 19:19 | <ltsp> paste: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> !forget pastebot
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| 19:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:19 | <vagrantc> !forget pastebin
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| 19:19 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:19 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: http://pastebin.com/M3gDgzFx
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> !learn pastebot as try !paste
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> learn !pastebin as try !paste
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| 19:20 | !pastebin
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'pastebin', but I do know about these similar topics: 'pastebot'
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> !pastebot
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> pastebot: try !paste
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> !learn pastebin as try !paste
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> !pastebin
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> pastebin: try !paste
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> !pastebot
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> pastebot: try !paste
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> !paste
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| 19:20 | <ltsp> paste: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> sorry for the noise
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| 19:21 | been meaning to do that for ages
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| 19:21 | !past
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| 19:21 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'past', but I do know about these similar topics: 'paste', 'pastebot', 'pastebin'
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: definitely looking interesting!
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| 19:23 | sbalneav: it's a little frightful in that it's surely enough rope to hang oneself with :)
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| 19:29 | <sbalneav> Well, I'm going to try to hit someone up that I know to do a code review.
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| 19:30 | Conceptually speaking, so long as this *module* is free of errors, I can't see that handing the pam auth off to an external program that communicates via stdin and stdout is any more dangerous than trying to write pam module from scratch.
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| 19:32 | Plus it significantly lowers the bar to someone wanting to write a custom pam or nss service, since they can now write it in a (potentially) safer scripting language than diddling around directly in C, with all it's inherent problems.
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| 19:43 | <quinox> I've made one PAM module in Bash, that was okay
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| 19:44 | it allows skipping 2FA for LAN IPs so that fat clients can still login
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| 19:44 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: yeah, i get that
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| 19:46 | sbalneav: though i do forsee some people well in over their heads writing a one-off where they wouldn't even try otherwise ... but that's ust a matter of documenting correct behavior in the readme or something
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| 19:46 | sbalneav: maybe with a "here be monsters" clause
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| 19:46 | <sbalneav> Oh yes.
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> there are a lot more people hacking up pam modules for LTSP than i thought...
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| 19:55 | <quinox> http://pamtester.sourceforge.net/ <-- just FTY, this tool made debugging my stuff way easy
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| 19:55 | s/FTY/FYI/
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| 22:21 | <Leolo_2> ok, now I have LTSP working on CentOS 6 with NDB and LDM !
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| 22:22 | <vagrantc> ACRONYM POWER!
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| 22:22 | <Leolo_2> question : how do I aleviate the need for a 15 minute ltsp-update-image every time I want to tweak something in the client?
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| 22:23 | 2nd question : every time a client boots, I get 10 NDB connect/disconnects
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| 22:23 | is this normal?
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| 22:24 | <vagrantc> Leolo_2: regarding the first question ... reduce the size of your image or get faster hardware
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| 22:24 | <Leolo_2> is there no other way?
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| 22:24 | <vagrantc> Leolo_2: it will likely get at least one NBD connection attempt to check for newer images when LDM starts
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| 22:25 | Leolo_2: use NFS>
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| 22:25 | <Leolo_2> I thought NFS was the old, deprecated way and NBD was the New Hotness
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| 22:25 | <vagrantc> Leolo_2: though that's getting harder and harder to do, as various unionfs/aufs/overlayfs sometimes have compatibility issues with NFS
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| 22:25 | NBD is pretty old hotness at this point
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| 22:26 | <Leolo_2> what's the New Hotness then?
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| 22:27 | <vagrantc> nothing solid has come along, but some folks have experimented with AoE
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| 22:27 | <Leolo_2> I thought there was some loopback + ext4 magic that could make updating the .nbd less painful
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| 22:27 | I have AoE running for my CORAID
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| 22:27 | I thought AoE server on Linux was sub-optimal
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| 22:27 | <vagrantc> yeah, you can use the chroot with a real filesystem, and then updates go live sort of immediately
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| 22:28 | <Leolo_2> oh
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| 22:28 | <vagrantc> i know some folks have played with btrfs and such
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| 22:28 | <Leolo_2> so /opt/ltsp/x86_64 is it's own FS. and NBD would just serve the underlying device
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| 22:28 | its
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| 22:28 | <vagrantc> that's one theory of operation, sure.
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| 22:29 | <Leolo_2> that would require everyone to log out if I want to play in the chroot
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| 22:29 | at least, safely
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| 22:29 | <vagrantc> gets a little complicated, in that some filesystems don't assume the underlying FS will change underneath a running filesystem
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| 22:29 | i suspect btrfs snapshots might be able to work around that issue
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| 22:30 | i think alkisg even has experimented with directly exporting the server's host filesystem
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| 22:30 | <Leolo_2> I'm pretty sure I don't want to drink the btrfs coolaid
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| 22:30 | just yet
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| 22:30 | <vagrantc> there are countless options to explore, but the default out of the box experience is NBD+squashfs
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| 22:30 | <Leolo_2> what advantage does NBD have over NFS?
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| 22:31 | <vagrantc> i resisted for ages with debian, using NFS+aufs, but aufs support was dropped in favor of overlay FS, and that has incompatibilities with NFS
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| 22:31 | <Leolo_2> another thing I notice is that mtab is mostly empty on the client. there's no mount -f going on to flush it out
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| 22:32 | <vagrantc> Leolo_2: NBD is much faster boot times, and load times, which really gets important with LTSP Fat Clients
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| 22:32 | <Leolo_2> overlay FS is another name for unionfs?
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| 22:32 | <vagrantc> overlay FS is another union-style filesystem implementation
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| 22:33 | unionfs, aufs, overlayfs, and it's close cousin overlay fs.
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| 22:33 | all union-style filesystems.
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| 22:33 | overlay fs is the first to get into the mainline kernel.
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| 22:35 | <Leolo_2> on DRBL if you have a signle system image, they have one NFS root but they also have template_{etc,root,var}.tgz which is used to modify the root at boot time
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| 22:36 | that could be easily set up. NBD root and then patches on top of it
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| 22:36 | "patches"
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| 22:36 | and when done tweaking, a 15 minute ltsp-update-image
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> you would need a filesystem that supported all that
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| 22:37 | <Leolo_2> uhm
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| 22:37 | <vagrantc> aufs + NFS was working for Debian for several years ... but support has been dropped
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| 22:38 | oh, you mean a writeable NFS root?
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| 22:38 | <Leolo_2> NO !
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| 22:38 | writable NFS ? *shudder*
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| 22:38 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 22:38 | <Leolo_2> I mean, NBD + unionfs, then grab a "tweak.tgz" (over tftp?) and unpack that on the client
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| 22:39 | <vagrantc> ah, sure.
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| 22:39 | well, except for unionfs
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| 22:39 | is there a working unionfs for any recent kernel version?
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| 22:40 | there's also support in squashfs to simply append to the existing squashfs ... but i don't think it supports deletions
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| 22:40 | so you can add or replace files, but ... that gets messy.
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| 22:41 | at any rate, we're always happy to review working patches!
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| 22:41 | <Leolo_2> 2.6.32-573 has unionfs which is good enough for my purposes
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> that must be centos/redhat patches on top of 2.6.32
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| 22:42 | <Leolo_2> yes
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| 22:42 | does LTSP 5 and Ubuntu not use unionfs?
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> not for many years
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| 22:42 | if ever...
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| 22:43 | <Leolo_2> huh
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| 22:43 | <vagrantc> they used aufs, maybe unionfs-fuse for a blink of an eye, and then overlayfs ... and now overlay fs.
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| 22:43 | <Leolo_2> I ask because I have trouble figuring out where LTSP ends and CentOS begins
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| 22:43 | wait, is fuse.unionfs distinct from unionfs?
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| 22:44 | <vagrantc> LTSP5 is just a collection of code to glue together the distro of choice to support LTSP network booting
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| 22:44 | <Leolo_2> yeah
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| 22:45 | well, it's a bit more then that because it also mounts /home/USER and starts up X and so on
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| 22:45 | <vagrantc> sure, there are some LTSP specific parts
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| 22:45 | we leave most of the implementation up to the distro developers
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| 22:46 | which have been largely absent for redhat/fedora/centos, unfortunately
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| 23:03 | <Leolo_2> apart from the ssh socket bug, it works
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| 23:21 | oh wait, there's the inifite "Newer NBD image exists. Reboot?" bug
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| 23:24 | <vagrantc> well, that would explain your numerous NBD connects/disconnects
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| 23:32 | <Leolo_2> it didn't do the inifite loop thing the first time I booted
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| 23:42 | <vagrantc> basically, it connects to the NBD server with a second NBD device, and compares the headers of the two NBD devices to check for differences
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| 23:43 | is it connecting to the correct server, with the correct NBD image name?
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| 23:43 | or is it using the deprecated NBD port method to select images?
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| 23:50 | Leolo_2: good luck!
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| 23:50 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 23:50 | vagrantc has left IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc, Quit: leaving) | |
| 23:55 | <Leolo_2> dedicated NBD port
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| 23:56 | IIRC this was one bug that pushed me to use NFS back in the day
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