IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 November 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:32 | <alkisg> 'morning vagrantc :)
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| 07:33 | https://qa.debian.org/excuses.php?package=ltsp doesn't mention ppc64el binaries anymore, but it does need that a manual unblock is needed
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| 07:33 | *does say
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| 07:47 | <vagrantc> well, progress :)
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> Do we need to "contact the d-i release manager" as it suggests?
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| 07:47 | <vagrantc> yes, i can do that
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> Great
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| 07:48 | <vagrantc> which might get interesting, as we no longer ship a .udeb :)
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> :D
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| 07:48 | <vagrantc> might also need to pester ftp-masters...
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| 07:49 | which is great news, honestly ... the debian-installer integration was way out of date and i tired of the extra beurocracy to migrate to testing
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> Yeah since we no longer favor chroots, that didn't make much sense to keep it around
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| 07:50 | <vagrantc> yeah, i think it could be replaced by a debconf preseed with some shell calls
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| 07:51 | <alkisg> Who is using that? I think debian-edu is trying to ship a minimal chroot with xfreerdp now, right?
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| 07:51 | <vagrantc> debian-edu
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| 07:51 | dunno if anyone else is
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| 07:51 | <alkisg> So if they're creating their own chroot, what we would be doing with the debconf preseed?
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| 07:53 | <vagrantc> i was thinking of a documented install where it builds the "typical" ltsp chrootless build
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| 07:54 | <alkisg> I haven't tried these parts of debian-installer so I'm missing some things. Is there an option in the debian install cd to install an ltsp server?
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| 07:54 | Or does that say "install a debian edu server"?
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| 07:55 | And if they select that menu, debian edu would build their minimal chroot, and we'd build a second chrootless image too?
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| 07:59 | <vagrantc> debian-edu will do whatever debian-edu does ... i was thinking the ltsp-client-builder .udeb could be replaced by a little bit of documentation on the ltsp wiki
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| 08:00 | weather it's a chroot or chrootless or whatever
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| 08:00 | i think there's no menu option at the moment, just preseeded values.
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| 08:01 | for ltsp 5.x ... there's no such option for ltsp 19.x yet
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| 08:01 | <alkisg> I guess what I'm asking is, "how do people actually use ltsp-client-builder.udeb?", and "what would that wiki page have, that would be different to the wiki installation page?"
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| 08:01 | They pass a preseed value that activates ltsp-client-builder and expect to have a chroot after installation?
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| 08:02 | And now we want to automate that somehow, without using an udeb?
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| 08:04 | <vagrantc> yes, they pass a preseed value that activates ltsp-client-builder and it builds a chroot
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| 08:04 | basically just passing all the "apt install ltsp dnsmasq ... && ltsp ipxe && ltsp dnsmasq && ltsp ..." calls in a preseeding file should do the trick with chrootless
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| 08:05 | or we don't bother to document it and wait till someone needs it :)
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| 08:05 | and they can document it ... but i figured i'd try it sometime and document the process
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| 08:06 | <alkisg> Does that phase run inside a /target chroot? I wonder if tmpfs/overlayfs handling will causing issues like it has with lxc...
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| 08:06 | <vagrantc> making an ltsp chroot might take a bit more work
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| 08:06 | the chroot is a regular chroot and should have typical directories and permissions enabled
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| 08:06 | e.g. /proc /dev ..
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| 08:07 | <alkisg> E.g. if the installer kernel is missing the overlay module, I'm not sure ltsp will be able to modprobe it
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| 08:07 | <vagrantc> nor am i :)
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| 08:08 | this is all stuff i'd find out when i attempt it :)
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| 08:08 | * alkisg thinks all this stuff would better belong in a post installation / first boot phase, like OEM setups work... | |
| 08:09 | <vagrantc> debian got rid of the first-boot phase ages ago
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> But ok I guess people are used to it, no point in trying to change it
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| 08:09 | <vagrantc> debian-installer
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| 08:09 | at this point, i'm mostly curious :)
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| 08:09 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 08:09 | <vagrantc> easier to test than speculate
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| 08:10 | although i'd like to try experimenting more with a live image installer, too ...
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> My last two debian installations were done with the live installer
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| 08:11 | I do remember the last "non-live" installer producing a much smaller installation though
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| 08:21 | <vagrantc> does the code handle fine if sshfs is missing out-of-the-box ?
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> I think so; it then assumes NFS or local home is used
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| 08:23 | <vagrantc> ok, the recommends is appropriate
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| 08:23 | although if they don't have NFS or local home?
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| 08:23 | there's a little bit of "you get to pick up the pieces" if recommends aren't isntalled, so i guess that's ok
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> If there's a bug there, we can surely handle it
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| 08:24 | I think it would try to login with SSH, and then it would use /home/username in overlayfs
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| 08:24 | <vagrantc> i guess it'd just have the homedir in the tmpfs overlay, effectively?
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Or maybe if NFS isn't set, it'll try with sshfs and fail with "not found"
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| 08:25 | Not sure, but whatever bugs are there, we can surely work them out with a couple of simple ifs
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| 08:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, everything you push to master is stuff you feel is "ready" for a release? should i get ready to release 19.12 sometime? or wait for 20.01 or 20.08? :)
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| 08:26 | i get the vague impression there are some issues with 19.11 that are fixed in master?
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| 08:28 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes I'm trying to keep master release-ready, mainly for 20.04, as for bullseye I'll have a lot of time later on and I think will get a fancier ltsp on time
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| 08:28 | There are indeed some fixes in master that are not there in 19.11
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| 08:29 | I definitely want an 20.x release for Ubuntu 20.04, as some people tried to make a new name out of ltsp19, so I don't want it to have 19 in the name
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| 08:29 | Now for ltsp 19.12, if you don't mind an additional release, sure, it should be releasable as it is now
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| 08:29 | <vagrantc> make a new name?
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| 08:30 | <alkisg> Yeah they even tried to make an ubuntultsp wiki namespace for ltsp19
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| 08:30 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSP19
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| 08:30 | <vagrantc> won't be able to test till mid-december at the earliest ... but might have time before the end of the year
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| 08:30 | <alkisg> I had to delete it :D
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| 08:31 | <vagrantc> i guess before too long we'll just call it "ltsp" again
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> I think it'd be easier for you if I did an 19.12 release and you just uploaded it to debian, if you want that
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| 08:31 | <vagrantc> if you think it's worth it, sure
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> OK; but maybe we need to wait for the testing migration issues to get resolved first
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| 08:32 | <vagrantc> i just noticed you trying to limit your time commitment a bit and hoped i could take on some of it :)
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| 08:32 | yeah, definitely hope to get it to land in bullseye/testing before another upload ... guess i'm optimistic that will happen in under two weeks :)
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> Thanks! Mostly I wanted to avoid the big flood of new features, we'd end up with an unstable ltsp due to my lack of time to properly review them
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| 08:33 | They send code that runs fine for their use case, but fails in 2-3 other cases, and I don't have time to test/correct it, thus we started a "staging" branch
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| 08:33 | <vagrantc> and ideally, once it migrates to bullseye, future uploads will be less red tape :)
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I was thinking to maintain a testing VM, to be able to test things like the fuse3 issue that Mike reported
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| 08:34 | <vagrantc> a little nervous how the staging stuff will go, but really glad to see a lot of new motivated contributors :)
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> Testing is runnable in VMs, right?
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| 08:34 | <vagrantc> don't want to see a bunch of unmergeable forks that people come to depend on
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> I don't worry much about it
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| 08:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: debian testing? should be, sure.
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> As I'll merge most of these forks next year
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| 08:35 | Nice, will do
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| 08:35 | <vagrantc> yeah, if the forks only last under a year, no real problem and it's kind of how things are supposed to work :)
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| 08:35 | <alkisg> It's just about this specific year that I'm trying to finish my phd
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| 08:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if it's not runnable, i'm sure Debian would like to know :)
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> After that I don't expect to have heavy time commitments outside of ltsp, so reviewing new features should be fine
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| 08:36 | <vagrantc> but i think there's even automated debian-installer testing and various other testing done in virtual machines
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 08:37 | <vagrantc> virtual machines get a lot more testing than real hardware, generally :)
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| 08:38 | <alkisg> Sure I mainly meant about the general stability of testing, not regarding the hardware/vm. E.g. I think that unstable breaks too often, and I wouldn't have time to solve/report all the bugs involved...
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| 08:38 | <vagrantc> yeah, i usually test against debian's testing branch
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/issues/99 solves https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=945521, so it's a good reason for a 19.12 release in a few days :)
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| 17:12 | At which point do we delete old debian bugs, like e.g. ldm ones?
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| 17:12 | When buster goes oldoldstable?
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| 17:14 | <vagrantc> they'll get closed when it gets removed from debian unstable ... which i was planning on changing the orphan bug to a removal bug sometime soon
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| 17:14 | maybe end-of-year?
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> Great
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