IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 February 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:46 | <bakyt> hi! can you tell me how much disk space consume each fat client working through nbd?
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> None, all fat clients use the same image
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| 09:49 | <bakyt> alkisg, but I have found out that once I restart the DHCP+TFTP (i.e ltsp server) it clients are showing SQUASHFS errors
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| 09:49 | so they require some connection to ltsp server?
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> They require a constant NBD connection to the LTSP server
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| 09:50 | They are using a network disk served by NBD or NFS, so you can't just cut their access to their disk and expect them to work
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| 09:50 | That disk is read-only for them
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| 09:51 | Any changes are temporary and are stored locally in the client RAM
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| 09:51 | <bakyt> alkisg, sure, I just wonder what kind server hardware would I need to server 100 clients
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> 100 fat clients?
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| 09:51 | <bakyt> alkisg, so it's a readonly right?
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| 09:51 | alkisg, yes 100
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> Yes the NBD export is read-only
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| 09:51 | <bakyt> alkisg, yes, fat clients (actually it doesn't matter, thin or fat in this case I think)
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> It matters a lot
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| 09:51 | For fat clients you don't need any server CPU at all
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| 09:52 | For thin clients, you'd need a 24 core monster etc
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| 09:52 | So for fat clients you can use any low-end PC with 2 gigabit NICs
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| 09:52 | Even single core will do, just add 2 gb of ram for caching
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| 09:52 | <bakyt> alkisg, I mean it it doesn't matter in terms of NBD
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| 09:52 | but in my case htey are fat clients
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> You mean the protocol?
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| 09:53 | Weren't you asking about the server?
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| 09:53 | To decide what server to buy, you need to know if you want to run thin or fat clients, it makes a lot of difference
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| 09:53 | <bakyt> alkisg, NBD runs on a server so eventually I mean server of course
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| 09:53 | alkisg, fat clients
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> OK, I answered above
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| 09:54 | You don't care about the server cpu, you need a couple of gb ram for the nbd disk caching, and you need good network
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| 09:54 | <bakyt> alkisg, right.
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| 09:55 | alkisg, btw when I change (for example upload some file to the fat client) it would store it in the RAM of the client or on the server's RAM?
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> Client RAM
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| 09:55 | <bakyt> alkisg, thank you! And the last question...is it possible to somehow load balance the ltsp server? including DHCP+TFTP server's
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 09:56 | <bakyt> alkisg, or, at least, can I use another NBD server? like one server for DHCP+TFTP and dedicated NBD server?
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| 09:56 | alkisg, is there any documentations already about this?
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> You can use as many nbd servers as you like
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| 09:56 | I don't know, check the ubuntultsp wiki
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| 09:56 | <bakyt> alkisg, thanks!
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 09:57 | <bakyt> alkisg, oh sorry :D one last thing :D is it possible to change the splash screen image? :D
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| 09:57 | alkisg, during the boot
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| 09:57 | <alkisg> Yes, but that's not ltsp related, you can find info for it in google
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| 09:57 | <bakyt> alkisg, ok
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| 09:57 | * bakyt going to use dedicated nbd server | |
| 10:01 | <VectorX> alkisg so i just went in #mac and asked why a mac is so supirior to any other linux distro and they kick and ban me
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| 10:01 | wtf is up with that
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> Dunno, noone here uses macs, I don't know their elitist culture :D
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| 10:02 | <VectorX> im trying to get a new mac as a sub ltsp serving thing, and ask a simple question in there
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| 10:02 | they are a bunch of freebsd copying retards by the look of it, only good at bashing windows
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| 10:03 | <VectorX> i ask whats the diffrent between a mac and any other linux distro and an op calls me a troll
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| 10:03 | <bakyt> VectorX, Mac users mostly are snobs and histerious :D
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| 10:03 | VectorX, lol :D
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| 10:03 | <VectorX> alkisg you for one know ive been trying to get this thing to work for atleast the last couple of days
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| 10:04 | god
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| 10:08 | <Hyperbyte> VectorX, asking a question like that in #mac won't get you any unbiased answers anyways. :)
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| 10:09 | <VectorX> Hyperbyte i just asked a simple question, you got to be really gay to kick someone for it, im trying to setup a low budget computer network with different OS's for those who need, i need to come up with explanations for justifying why i need to buy a new $1500+ mac, i think i warrent some explanations
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| 10:11 | <Hyperbyte> Why don't you Google a review?
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| 10:12 | It's a very well-known fact that a discussion on the internet about one platform vs another, nearly always derails into a flamewar.
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| 10:12 | <VectorX> well i can understand if i asked whats so special about a mac vs windows pc
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| 10:12 | but thats not what i asked
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| 10:12 | <Hyperbyte> You can't really blame them from trying to prevent that in #mac. They probably even have a channel policy against it which you didn't read. :)
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| 10:13 | I'm done being devil's advocate now. :P
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| 10:13 | <VectorX> :)
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| 10:13 | <Hyperbyte> Type 'mac vs linux' in Google.
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| 10:13 | You'll get loads of results.
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| 10:15 | <VectorX> yeah there are a lot of reviews, but i dont think they are saying what i really need to know, which is a open question, why would i use a mac instead of any other linux distro
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| 10:16 | so i get answers from people who have some sort of practical use for it
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| 10:16 | ie why would someone prefer using photoshop on a mac vs photoshop on windows ?
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| 10:17 | its the same exact program
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| 10:17 | the hardware is pretty much identical or you can make it
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| 10:18 | so why do i need to buy a mac for my network when you can already use everything on a windows pc
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| 10:18 | or since its running ubuntu, photoshop on wine
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| 10:33 | <Hyperbyte> VectorX, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Photoshop+Mac+vs+Windows
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| 10:33 | <VectorX> seriously
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| 10:33 | <Hyperbyte> Well the answer isn't clear-cut.
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| 10:33 | You need to do a lot of research. :P
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| 10:34 | Why would you use OpenOffice rather than Microsoft Office?
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| 10:34 | They're two different programs.... the answer to that differs from person to person... it's not science.
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| 10:35 | I have this friend who is in love with his iBook, iPad and iPhone. Takes them everywhere, and for him they're superiour to anything else.
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| 10:35 | I have the same thing, with my HTC Desire running Android...
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| 10:36 | You can't make a feature comparison to justify why, it's just personal preference.
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| 11:01 | <VectorX> Hyperbyte well its not really a feature comparison, coz to me that seems like a level playing field, we are not comparing apples to oranges, the example was why use photosop on a mac vs windows vs linux, we can even take out windows from the example
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| 11:02 | so if i can for instance use Microsoft Office on linux why would i pay $200+ to get windows sort of thing
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| 11:04 | <VectorX> im trying to understand it from a users point of view, not from a admin view which is what most of the reviews talk about
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| 11:04 | <Hyperbyte> VectorX, it's never about one program is it? It's the whole user experience that matters.
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| 11:04 | <VectorX> well for instance the HTC Desire is from my point of view on par or even better than and iphone 4, so how can you convince your friend it is
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| 11:04 | free apps for once
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| 11:04 | once/one
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| 11:05 | hey look i didnt have to pay for angry birds and you did
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| 11:07 | Hyperbyte user experience wise i dont really see much differcne between say ubuntu and a mac
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| 11:08 | although id just prefer to stay with windows if using the gui or linux for cli, but thats personal preference
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| 11:10 | but anyway this conversations here nor there, lets just hope greece gets its financial bailout today
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| 11:10 | <Hyperbyte> Hah
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| 11:11 | <VectorX> and hope that in the future nations dont spend money they dont have to host the olympics
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| 11:13 | go greece
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| 11:53 | <Q-FUNK> howdy!
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| 11:54 | am I the only one for whom NBD upgrade from Lucid to Precise fails and breaks LTSP in Ubuntu?
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| 11:59 | <alkisg> Not sure how many people tested upgrading...
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| 12:00 | * alkisg did a clean precise installation, everything worked ok | |
| 12:00 | <alkisg> Error messages?
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| 12:00 | <Q-FUNK> bug 924614
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| 12:01 | and 924867
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| 12:02 | 925310 will also be an issue here
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| 12:07 | <Q-FUNK> alkisg: if there's any info missing, please let me know.
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> Q-FUNK: err I won't be going through those bugs soon, I just thought it would be something small to help with...
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| 12:09 | OK if there are filed bugs the troubleshooting + fixing can continue there
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| 12:09 | <Q-FUNK> alkisg: yes, but time is running short before Precise is released.
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> Indeed, it would be nice to have them fixed in the precise cycle
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| 12:11 | <Q-FUNK> alkisg: not just nice to have. if these are not fixed, lots of schools upgrading from LTS to LTS+1 will experience serious breakage.
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| 12:11 | <alkisg> Locally here we're using a PPA because we need a customized ltsp anyway...
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| 12:12 | We're upgrading in Septembers, with lots of months of testing after the LTS releases
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| 12:12 | <Q-FUNK> alkisg: as such, either they get fixed, or Ubuntu will have to be honest enough and inform the user base that LTSP has essentially become unsupported.
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| 12:12 | <alkisg> But yeah for everyone else that won't help :)
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| 12:12 | Q-FUNK: I'm not the correct person to tell all these though :)
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| 12:12 | I'm just a volunteer here
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| 12:13 | <Q-FUNK> ok :)
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| 12:13 | is anyone else taking care of LTSP there asides from stgraber nowadays?
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> vagrantc maintains the debian version of ltsp
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| 12:14 | <Q-FUNK> yes but doesn't Ubuntu maintain its own fork?
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> Not much
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| 12:14 | LDM is completely in sync
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| 12:14 | LTSP is a bit forked, but it will converge in the future too
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| 12:15 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> Others here help too, but not with a distro maintainer status. Except for cyberorg which isn't much around lately
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| 12:15 | Ah and knipwim does a great job for gentoo
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| 12:16 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 12:17 | well, I would gladly help at Ubuntu, but since the packages are in main, my powers are limited.
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> Q-FUNK: if you can provide patches, it'd be easy to push them
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| 12:18 | <Q-FUNK> alkisg: most of what I would propose as fixes would involve reverting recent changes.
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> Such as?
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| 12:18 | <Q-FUNK> the PAE kernel change
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| 12:18 | * alkisg didn't read or test that one... | |
| 12:19 | <alkisg> But I think stgraber plans today to be an ltsp bug fixing day
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| 12:19 | <Q-FUNK> ltsp-build-client now pulls generic-pae instead of -generic.
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> Maybe it would help if you were around later on
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| 12:20 | <Q-FUNK> according to changelog, it should fall back to -pae only if -generic is not available and yet it currently pulls -pae regardless.
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| 12:20 | sure.
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| 12:20 | when does stgraber usually return?
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> Not sure... in 3-4 hours?
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| 12:21 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 12:40 | <muppis> How /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules -file is/was handled in nfs mounted ltsp?
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| 12:41 | <alkisg> Since udev doesn't start while running ltsp-build-client, that file should be empty, right?
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| 12:42 | So without looking at the code, a rw bind-mount should be enough...
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| 12:44 | <muppis> But while udev starts at boot it write to that file if it founds a new nic during boot causing connectiong error if booting multiple nfs clients.
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| 12:44 | <alkisg> Are you using ltsp?
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| 12:45 | <muppis> Not really. :) Just trying to figure out how to solve that.
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> RW bind mounts make the writes to go to the client RAM
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| 12:46 | It's not just one file, there's a long list of files and dirs that need to be writeable
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| 12:47 | Don't try to boot multiple clients from the same read/write location, whether it is nfs, nbd, real disk or whatever
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| 12:49 | <muppis> So I should really mount root somewhere else and bind it to / ?
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> Yes, use some copy-on-write mechanism, tmpfs, nbd rw, and aufs to bind your read-only disk with the writeable location together
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| 12:49 | Essentially if you spend some months dealing with all the problems, you'll reimplement ltsp
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| 12:50 | <muppis> :)
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| 14:09 | <xsl> hi all
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 15:06 | <stgraber> ok, fixing that pae issue ... well, trying to find a way to fix it
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| 15:13 | <laurei> wow found something funny, the autologin feature doesnt actually allow a person to log out, because it just keeps logging back in, is this a feature?
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| 15:13 | <stgraber> yes, it's what you want on kiosk clients
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| 15:14 | otherwise, you most likely want either the guestlogin feature or you want to use the timeout
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| 15:15 | <laurei> and there is no way to circumvent this otherwise?
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| 15:16 | the idea is to have fat clients that operate as DLNA renderers until someone decides to use it as a PC
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| 15:17 | timeout sounds like it could work
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| 15:22 | yes, yes, timeout is just what i needed thank you
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| 15:22 | stgraber.
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| 15:23 | <stgraber> np
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| 16:49 | <[GuS]> Hi guys, I am having a problem building LTSP client (latest LTSP) in Gentoo: http://pastebin.com/ZCuyxb8h
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| 16:54 | <knipwim> [GuS]: building with 5.2.18 i see :)
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| 16:54 | <Q-FUNK> re
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| 16:56 | <[GuS]> knipwim: indeed
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| 16:56 | knipwim: 5.2.19 fails in other part
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| 16:56 | <knipwim> i saw your bug
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| 16:56 | <[GuS]> Yep...
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| 16:57 | knipwim: i am modifying the profile... maybe i can re emerge that package tehre...
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| 16:57 | there8
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| 16:57 | *
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| 16:57 | <knipwim> the profile in the ltsp overlay?
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| 16:57 | <[GuS]> knipwim: of quickstart
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| 16:58 | <knipwim> that won't work until 5.2.20
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| 16:58 | check
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| 16:58 | if you emerge it before the packages it emerge, it will work
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| 16:58 | <[GuS]> knipwim: is what i am doing :)
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| 16:59 | <knipwim> it's a gentoo issue btw: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-197754.html
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| 17:00 | <knipwim> it's the first time i see it though
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| 17:00 | <[GuS]> knipwim: yes... noticed..
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| 17:01 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: is today your ltsp bug squashing day, by any chance? :)
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| 17:01 | <knipwim> [GuS]: i will look at your bug later this week
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| 17:02 | <[GuS]> knipwim: oks, no problem. I will try to do this quick fix meanwhile
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| 17:02 | for the 5.2.18..
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| 17:02 | <stgraber> Q-FUNK: not really, though I fixed the PAE stuff you mentioned earlier
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| 17:02 | well, fixed in ltsp-trunk, so will be there in the next release
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| 17:03 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: next upload, you mean? on time for precise?
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| 17:04 | stgraber: my main concern is that NBD reconfiguration completely failed on a Lucid->Precise upgrade. Instead of getting LDM, I get dropped into BusyBox.
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| 17:06 | <stgraber> Q-FUNK: what did you upgrade exactly? (chroot upgrades have never been supported, so the only way to "upgrade" is by upgrading the server, removing /opt/ltsp and running ltsp-build-client)
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| 17:07 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: the host, silly :)
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| 17:07 | the chroot was obviously regenerated
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| 17:08 | <stgraber> and you ran: "/etc/init.d/nbd-server restart" after you did the ltsp-build-client?
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| 17:09 | <Q-FUNK> I rebted the host
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| 17:09 | <stgraber> k, that should have done the trick :)
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| 17:09 | <Q-FUNK> Bug 924867
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| 17:14 | the nbd daemon's config fails to get upgraded
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| 17:20 | that's why it didn't do the trick.
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| 17:20 | and that was even before the switch to PAE kernel.
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| 17:26 | bug #924867 and #924614 actually.
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| 17:30 | this happens at the end of whatever ltsp-build-client does.
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| 17:31 | <stgraber> yeah, that's like update-nbd-config (or whatever its name is) that's failing. Luckily we no longer need it on Precise, so I'll just make the change to drop it
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| 17:38 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: do we still need nbd at all though? how would you handle the config upgrade?
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| 17:38 | stgraber: and is that what makes the client drop into BusyBox rather than show me LDM?
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| 17:40 | without any upgrade, I get this:
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| 17:40 | Restarting Network Block Device server: Stopping Network Block Device server: nbd-server.
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| 17:40 | ** Message: No configured exports; quitting.
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| 17:40 | nbd-server.
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| 17:41 | stgraber: so we probably need something like update-nbd-config after all.
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| 17:46 | <stgraber> we no longer need the script because we don't have to touch the config anymore
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| 17:46 | the current version comes with a config.d kind of thing
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| 17:47 | so we can just dump a file in there without ever modifying the existing conffile
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| 17:47 | <[GuS]> knipwim: question, in which step of the quickstart you recomend me to put the fix for the XML-Parser?
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| 17:49 | <knipwim> [GuS]: i would say in the pre_install_extra_packages()
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| 17:49 | before emerging udev
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| 17:49 | <[GuS]> Ok
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| 17:49 | knipwim: i just spawn the emerge of that package?
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| 17:50 | <knipwim> yeah, like the udev
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| 17:50 | spawn_chroot "emerge XML-Parser"
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| 17:50 | <[GuS]> knipwim: ok, i did that.. and failed
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| 17:51 | mmm let me see...
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| 17:51 | <knipwim> what, you added that line, and did an ltsp-build-client?
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| 17:52 | <[GuS]> knipwim: nothing, waitinf there... but i think by mistake i've added the -a param to emerge :P
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| 17:52 | <knipwim> nice one :)
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| 17:52 | <[GuS]> haha yeah...
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| 17:52 | * [GuS] damn me! | |
| 17:53 | <[GuS]> I have to sleep more hours nex ttime..
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| 17:56 | <knipwim> looking at the bug now
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| 17:56 | i don't have a clue yet
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| 17:58 | you have used a recent stage3 file?
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| 18:00 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: ok, but how do we handle upgrades from the previous LTS? right now, the server fails to start.
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| 18:01 | stgraber: the config that's in /etc/nbd-server/conf.d is precisely what fails to be configurated
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| 18:01 | stgraber: or actually, no customized config got dropped there at all. the failed upgrade concerns the default config.
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| 18:03 | <[GuS]> knipwim: yep
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| 18:04 | knipwim: not exactly today, but yes
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| 18:10 | <xsl> is there a recomended partitioning scheme for LTSP servers?
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| 18:10 | or just standard best practices
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| 18:14 | <||cw> xsl: depends on use case
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| 18:15 | if clients are going to login to on X on the ltsp server, treating like a desktop is probably best
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| 18:16 | also, if it's a testing system and the client images are going to updated often make sure to have tons of free space on the location the images are saved, as clients are not swapped to the new image until they are rebooted, so the old image inodes remain "active" but hidden, eating free space
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| 18:17 | <xsl> ||cw: yes that happened to me some times
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| 18:17 | do we have a command to delete those "inodes"
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| 18:17 | <||cw> I had 5 images active at once one time
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| 18:17 | "what do you mean out of space? I have 10GB!"
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| 18:17 | <xsl> hehe
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| 18:17 | <||cw> well, that crashes the ndb instance
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| 18:18 | more or less forcing the clients to reboot if anyone tries to do anyting that isn't in ram
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| 18:21 | <xsl> yes
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| 18:27 | <[GuS]> knipwim: ok, that "fix" failed anyways, still the XML-Parser error.
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> Hey vagrantc, if you got any time for epoptes today, tell me to upload the changelog for the new version
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, probably in about an hour i'll be ready
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| 18:57 | <alkisg> Perfect
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| 19:04 | <alkisg> Suppose we want to support xvnc4viewer, ssvnc and vinagre. And suppose that the user has all of them installed. Which one would we use? Should we check /etc/alternatives/vncviewer? Or offer an option in /etc/default/epoptes or in ~/.config/epoptes?
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: eesh.
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> Yup?
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: /etc/alternatives/vncviewer might support all sorts of vnc clients which may or may not have the features we need...
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> Of course I'll check and only use the supported ones, else I'll fall back to e.g. xvnc4viewer
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: how will youu check ... check the symlink and what it points to?
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| 19:57 | alkisg: guess that makes sense ... default to whatever /etc/alternatives/vncviewer uses as long as it's supported, else fall back to a "sane" default.
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| 19:58 | alkisg: /etc/default/ is mostly for /etc/init.d scripts ...
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| 19:58 | alkisg: although maybe that's changed ...
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| 19:58 | alkisg: but yeah, overriding the default in /etc and ~/.config/epoptes makes sense.
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| 19:58 | alkisg: /etc/epoptes/epoptes.conf ?
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> vagrantc: err we don't have that currently
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| 19:59 | We only have /etc/default/epoptes, and ~/.config/epoptes/*
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> stgraber: how's LTSP testing going?
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| 19:59 | alkisg: oh.
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| 19:59 | alkisg: ok, go with what we already have then :)
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| 20:00 | alkisg: what reads /etc/default/epoptes ?
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> vagrantc, btw, I'm thinking of putting the LTSP_CLIENT_MAC to LTSP so that we can slowly get rid of it in epoptes
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| 20:00 | vagrantc: the epoptes daemon and the epoptes UI
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| 20:00 | <highvoltage> hey vagrantc
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> So, I was about to export it from ltsp_nbd, but then I thought about nfs ... :D Where should I put it?
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| 20:00 | I want to write it to ltsp_config from the initramfs,
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| 20:01 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: I have two ltsp related packages that need some review, would you have a few minutes some time to look at it?
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> and export it later to the user session from an ldm/rc.d/X* script
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| 20:01 | <stgraber> vagrantc: found a few issues, though I then got involved into netcfg debugging ;) will try to do some more LTSP tonight
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| 20:01 | <highvoltage> alkisg: is that for the guest users on live ltsp?
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> highvoltage: nope... if you want that, I can have it ready in half an hour
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| 20:02 | It's just a small daemon in python + an RCFILE_01 line in lts.conf
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| 20:02 | No chroot modiciations necessary (to dynamically create users based on client hostname)
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| 20:02 | <highvoltage> alkisg: hehe, no rush :)
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> highvoltage: I mean, the last time you didn't answer me if you wanted it at all, or not...
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| 20:03 | <highvoltage> alkisg: oh sorry, I thought I did
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> I guess we need stgraber's opinion too, when he has some time after the netcfg thing :)
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| 20:04 | Here's the daemon part: http://docs.python.org/library/socketserver.html#socketserver-tcpserver-example
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| 20:04 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yep, that's basically what I said. I think we should run it by stgraber, I know he's *very* careful of what goes into LTSP for in 12.05 since it needs to be supportable for 5 years
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> plus an adduser call
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| 20:04 | An the RCFILE_01 line just calls nc with the hostname as a parameter
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| 20:04 | <highvoltage> alkisg: but imo I think it should get in there at some point even if it's for 12.10
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| 20:05 | <stgraber> are we talking about running a daemon by default which lets anyone remotely creating an account on the server?
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| 20:05 | if so, that's a definite no
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> stgraber: when the user click to run ltsp-live
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| 20:05 | <stgraber> ok, if only for ltsp-live, then maybe we can talk ;)
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| 20:05 | (considering we already don't care about any kind of security at this point)
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| 20:07 | so what's the benefit of this exactly? it only sounds like to be we'd be saving a few hundred accounts that don't really take space anyway, no?
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> stgraber: it takes a long time to create 255 accounts
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| 20:07 | highvoltage: remember how much time that takes?
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| 20:07 | <stgraber> 2s-ish (here)
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> alkisg: as far as where to put the LTSP_CLIENT_MAC stuff ... in the initramfs-scripts hooks, no?
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| 20:07 | <stgraber> I get ltsp-live fully running in less than 20s
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| 20:07 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, but ltsp_nbd would be nbd-specific...
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: URLs for review?
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| 20:08 | alkisg: right, use the initramfs-scripts stuff we wrote in october- i'll be using that in the next debian upload and it works with either NBD or NFS
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| 20:08 | <stgraber> alkisg: I believe I limited it to only the number of accounts we really need (based on netrange)
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| 20:08 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: http://mentors.debian.net/package/ltsp-cluster-agent
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> stgraber: Ah, I thought it needed more than 10 secs. Also it helps if the netmask is not 255.255.255.0, where the 255 accounts wouldn't be useful, but that's not a big deal
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: oh-ho! ltsp-cluster
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| 20:08 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: http://mentors.debian.net/package/ltsp-cluster-agent-weblive
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| 20:09 | <stgraber> alkisg: the netmask is 255.255.255.0 but dnsmasq is configured to only give 50 IPs or something like that
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| 20:09 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: isn't it about time some of this makes it into debian? :)
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> stgraber: I mean, the client hostname would be ltsp123456 and the account would be ltsp123
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| 20:09 | <stgraber> alkisg: and since 11.10 we only create these 50 accounts instead of 255 as we used to
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> Sounds like there's no problem to solve then :)
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: suppose so. i've never used it or tried it
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| 20:10 | <highvoltage> vagrantc: ah ok. the weblive stuff is really nice? have you seen it?
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| 20:11 | <vagrantc> highvoltage: nope
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| 20:11 | <highvoltage> you need a java plugin to use it (free java like iced-tea works fine) then you can access a remote desktop session from within your browser: http://edubuntu.org/weblive
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| 20:12 | <alkisg> stgraber: that initramfs-scripts stuff won't make it for precise, right? I'd like to expose LTSP_CLIENT_MAC in the user's environment, to use it from epoptes, can I put it somewhere in the initramfs script today and have it included in precise?
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| 20:12 | <highvoltage> stgraber hosts the edubuntu weblive images on his server.
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| 20:12 | but it would also be nice to allow people to create debian instances
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> the initramfs-scripts isn't going into precise?
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> No idea, last I heard about them was Gadi saying that he wanted them to be optional in case stgraber didn't want to include them
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| 20:13 | Let's hear what Stephane will say :)
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| 20:13 | <vagrantc> in my next debian packaging, they'll pretty much be mandatory ...
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> (because of little testing they received so far)
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| 20:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so what do i need to do to test the vnc issues on amd64 you mentioned yesterday? i'm just getting started on projects today and making a TODO list, apparently...
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| 20:14 | <stgraber> alkisg: in theory the initramfs-scripts stuff is going to be in Precise, if people help testing it (see my mail to -devel)
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> Nice! vagrantc, run `xvncviewer -listen` in an amd64 installation, and `x11vnc -connect amd64pc` from any other pc
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> If that crashes, then try to include that patch to debian:
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| 20:16 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vnc4/+bug/845855
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| 20:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ok.
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: can the same machine with xvncviewer -list also be the one to run x11vnc -connect ?
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| 20:35 | alkisg: if so, it works fine on debian testing
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| 20:36 | alkisg: and has the same version in sid
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: and dpkg --print-architectur == amd64?
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| 20:37 | Let me try if it fails on the same pc in precise without the patch...
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yup.
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| 20:39 | alkisg: xvnc4viewer 4.1.1+X4.3.0-37 and x11vnc 0.9.13-1
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> That's strange... maybe the gcc stack protection isn't activated somehow
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| 20:39 | And the bug is there, and doesn't appear so easily
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| 20:40 | * alkisg reboots to precise to better test things... | |
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| 20:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, it should be fine to connect from the same machine, yes?
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I believe so, but let me try it... once I find an unpatched version of the package..
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| 20:58 | vagrantc: yes, the unpatched package crashed for me here even locally. Let me try the debian package in my xubuntu amd64 vm... sid?
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| 21:00 | Yup worked fine here too
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: maybe http://bugs.debian.org/509949 fixed it?
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| 21:00 | alkisg: oh, that was ancient, nevermind
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| 21:01 | xvnc4 hasn't seen changes since march of 2010
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> Maybe a compilation option, we could compare sources to pinpoint it, but I don't know if it's worth it now that it's fixed in precise too
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> ubuntu defaults to using hardening flags, maybe?
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> vagrantc: currently I'm using dpkg-query to find the epoptes-client version... I'd like to avoid that to be more cross-distro. So I'd e.g. put VERSION=xxx inside the epoptes-client source. But how would I update it automatically, based on the changelog? From inside debian/rules? From a bzr scrript?
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, the dpkg-query call was the wrong call anyways
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| 21:04 | or at least, it was at one point
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> Really? I didn't notice... and we base our compatibility test on that
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> (i.e. it returned the version of a previously installed package if it was no longer installed)
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: dunno how you want to handle the releases.
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> Currently we don't have anything automated
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| 21:06 | So any suggestions are most welcome
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> i've been rolling my own simplified version of mkdst
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| 21:07 | <alkisg> So I could just write a small script and run that manually before releases? Sounds easy...
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| 21:08 | <vagrantc> i could patch my changes into mkdst, and then we could use mkdst again
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| 21:09 | but what i've been doing is parsing the upstream version out of debian/changelog, exporting a bzr repo to annother dir, dumping the changelog from bzr into that dir, and making a tarball of it.
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| 21:10 | alkisg: but yes, a VERSION file in /usr/share/epoptes and/or /usr/share/epoptes-client would be simpler.
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you could just ship a version file in bzr, and simply as a release, increment that.
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| 21:12 | <alkisg> Epoptes does have a version number in __init__.py that we already have to (manually) sync with debian/changelog
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| 21:12 | I think it's customary in python to do that
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: should probably use mkdst, and just fix it to support some of the things i prefer.
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> So maybe I could just put VERSION=xxx inside epoptes-client, and make a small script that updates those files from debian/changelog
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, if you've got that already, why not have it pull that version during build time?
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| 21:13 | <alkisg> How?
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: surely there's a way to query the version
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| 21:14 | <alkisg> No I mean what build-time-hook could I use to do that?
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| 21:14 | Call a script from debian/rules?
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| 21:14 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: I finally got the NBD server running again after purging it, deleting the old configs and re-installing it, but this definitely isn't the proper way to upgrade from LTS to LTS+1.
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| 21:15 | * vagrantc gently pats NFS on the head | |
| 21:15 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 21:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: probably just parse it from the debian/changelog in debian/rules
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| 21:15 | * vagrantc rumages around for code | |
| 21:16 | <Q-FUNK> yeah, you cannot shake the filesystem elderlies too much.
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| 21:16 | <alkisg> vagrantc: that would be the best
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| 21:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: DEB_VERSION := $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | egrep '^Version:' | cut -f 2 -d ' ')
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| 21:16 | alkisg: probably add a | cut -d - -f 1
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| 21:16 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 21:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: to get the upstream version
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> Maybe make a script and call: shell update-my-changelog ?
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| 21:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and then during build, echo that to a file.
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| 21:17 | alkisg: oh, you want debian/changelog to get auto-updated?
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> No, to have epoptes/__init__.py auto-updated from debian/changelog
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| 21:17 | And epoptes-client/epoptes-client too
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but that really should be updated in bzr, not in debian/rules.
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| 21:18 | <alkisg> So, a bzr push hook?
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i just don't see what's the evil in manually updating that.
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| 21:18 | <alkisg> Or just a script that I run manually?
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| 21:19 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: after this, things worked again once I configured gnome-fallback as the session in lts.conf
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: and then having a build-time check to make sure it's consistant.
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> OK, that sounds easiest :D
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i.e. fail to build
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| 21:19 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: the only bug remaining is that ntpdate still cannot fetch time from the LTSP server and so the CMOS batteryless terminal remains stuck at an old date. that bug remains since Hardy.
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> Can I leave that last part to you? Or at least for a later day, it's getting late here...
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we've done fine without it so far :)
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> Hehe... ok so should we upload what we have now? There are some fixes that would increase stability...
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| 21:20 | (the already committed ones, I don't have anything in my current TODO list )
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| 21:22 | <vagrantc> alkisg: should be able to do that today
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| 21:22 | <alkisg> Nice, ok, I'm uploading the changelog...
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| 21:22 | Thanks!
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| 21:22 | <vagrantc> ltsp itself keeps get putting off till later...
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| 21:23 | <alkisg> Tomorrow I'll try to find some time to test ltsp
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| 21:23 | ...and commit that LTSP_CLIENT_MAC thing
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| 21:42 | <alkisg> 'night all :)
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| 21:42 | <Q-FUNK> vagrantc: do we still need the three inetd.conf stanzas for NBD in the current LTSP or do we specify all that in NBD's own configs?
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| 21:44 | <vagrantc> Q-FUNK: i use and debian defaults to NFS, so you're asking the wrong person.
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| 21:44 | i haven't tested an NBD setup in quite some time
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| 21:45 | <Q-FUNK> ok
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| 21:49 | <||cw> Q-FUNK: you could always brute-force it with an rcscript
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| 21:50 | <Q-FUNK> ||cw: force what?
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| 22:08 | <||cw> ntp
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| 22:28 | <Q-FUNK> ||cw: I'm not sure I follow you.
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| 22:57 | <||cw> does ntpdate not work at all, or just not at boot?
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| 23:05 | <Q-FUNK> ||cw: not at boot, at least. wouldn't know if it works afterwards, since it's started in the chroot image.
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