IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 April 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:03 | <warren> hmm, has Enslaver been around?
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| 13:34 | <ltspuser_74> hi ,
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| 13:37 | I have installed edubuntu 12.04 amd 64 and connected atom nodes , the display in the server is fine however the splash screen in the nodes are moved to a side ,the nodes can load unity 2d but not fallback . It used to be fine with 10.10 . Any ideas to fix it . Thanks
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Install gnome-session-fallback
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| 13:38 | <ltspuser_74> I had done that at the time of installation ,
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| 13:39 | my laptop works fine when pxe booted
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> Are you saying that your laptop loads the fallback session, and the atom nodes do not?
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| 13:40 | <ltspuser_74> yes
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> Any error messages? Do you see it as available in ldm? Do you select it at login time?
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| 13:42 | <ltspuser_74> no error messages , However the username prompt goes to a corner
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> And then? It returns to LDM?
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| 13:44 | <ltspuser_74> no it stays
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> So when you try to login with gnome-fallback in atom clients, it hangs?
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| 13:45 | And if you select e.g. unity 2d, it works?
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| 13:45 | <ltspuser_74> when i do that only the wall paper is shown but no menu
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| 13:45 | but when i use an atom netbook the menu is shown
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> Read this bug report, is this what you're saying?
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| 13:46 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/1078679
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| 13:50 | <ltspuser_74> unity 2d works , I dont think this is the problem since 1) the clients are thin 2) even the login screen is having a problem
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> Ah, you might be talking about a resolution issue then
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| 13:51 | Can you press alt+ctrl+t to invoke a terminal?
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| 13:51 | After login?
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| 13:51 | And there, run: xrandr
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| 13:52 | <ltspuser_74> from the server or client
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> Client, after login
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| 13:53 | With the menu not showing etc, just alt+ctrl+t to open a terminal
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| 14:02 | <ltspuser_74> no response
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> Does right mouse click bring up a menu?
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| 14:04 | <ltspuser_74> no
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| 14:04 | yes
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| 14:05 | sorry
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| 14:05 | i can create a new folder
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> On the server, login as that user
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| 14:05 | <ltspuser_74> got the terminal
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> cd Desktop
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| 14:06 | cp /usr/share/applications/gnome-terminal.desktop . ; chmod +x gnome-terminal.desktop
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> OK if you got the terminal it's fine
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| 14:06 | Now, run xrandr and check the resolution, outputs etc
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| 14:06 | If it thinks you have 2 monitors, you need to disable the ghost output
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| 14:07 | With, for example, xrandr --output VGA1 --off
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| 14:07 | If that's the problem, you can then fix it from lts.conf
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| 14:09 | <ltspuser_74> when i did the screen when blank
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| 14:09 | i think this is the problem , could you help me fix it
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> We need the output of xrandr, in order to help you
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| 14:15 | <ltspuser_74> screen 0 current 2048*768
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> You can run e.g. firefox and paste all the output to pastebin.com
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| 14:16 | <ltspuser_74> lvds1 connected at 1024*768+1024+0
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> !pastebin
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| 14:16 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> firefox from the terminal, alt+tab to switch windows, alt + mouse drag to drag windows around...
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| 14:25 | <ltspuser_74> can you give me an email since the pastebin.com does not seems to be working
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Try paste.debian.net or paste.ubuntu.com then
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| 14:32 | (also, pastebin.com works for me...)
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| 14:32 | There's also a "pastebinit" tool that you can install, and then run: xrandr | pastebinit
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| 14:34 | <ltspuser_74> done in paste.debian.com
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| 14:34 | .net
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> URL?
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| 14:35 | This one? http://paste.debian.net/248083
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| 14:35 | <ltspuser_74> yes
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> Did you say that you ran `xrandr --output VGA1 --off` and it blanked your monitor?
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| 14:36 | <ltspuser_74> yes
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> Is your monitor an external one?
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| 14:36 | Or are they netbooks?
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| 14:36 | <ltspuser_74> yes
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> I asked 2 questions, so you need to specify which one you answer with "yes" :)
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| 14:37 | <ltspuser_74> external ,
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> OK, run: xrandr --output LVDS1 --off
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| 14:37 | Does this fix things?
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| 14:38 | <ltspuser_74> the menu has come
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> On the server now,
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| 14:39 | sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 14:40 | [Default]
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| 14:40 | XRANDR_OUTPUT_0="LVDS1 --off"
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| 14:40 | Reboot client and check if the problem is gone
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| 15:08 | <ltspuser_74> its worked , thanks ,
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| 15:09 | <cifra89> hi @all, I'm trying to install an LTSP server, but I did not understand if the image for the client that is created is a minimal image of parent operating system (eg, debian, gentoo, etc) or if it is already configured to be used as a desktop workstation because use I should do with it is completely different!
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| 17:05 | <gbaman> is it possible to have an option when the pi boots to copy the ltsp image over to the pi then it boot locally till that is done again?
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> it is possible, not necessarily trivial
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| 17:06 | <gbaman> provides the best of both worlds by not hammering the network every time but meaning we can maintain a perfect image
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| 17:06 | <jammcq> hey vagrantc, are you doing alot with pi ?
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> jammcq: i've worked on it a bit
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| 17:06 | <gbaman> jammcq he has been rather epic helping me out with a bit of ltsp raspi stuff recently :)
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> jammcq: tested some proof of concept LTSP stuff with it
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| 17:06 | <jammcq> i've got a small A10 Allwinner workstation that I guess is similar to the Pi
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| 17:07 | * vagrantc would rather be working with ARMv7 capable hardware though | |
| 17:07 | <jammcq> I've booted with berryboot and I see one of the options for OS install is LTSP. is that yours?
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| 17:07 | this is my first experience with Arm
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| 17:07 | and i'm rather confused with all the stuff out there
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> no, berryboot has a mode sort of like what gbaman is trying, although less flexible
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| 17:08 | or berryterminal
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| 17:08 | <gbaman> also, speed wise vagrantc, i noticed that the network booting took around 50-60 seconds while local took 30ish seconds, likely due to the pis 100/10 ethernet
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> it's another OS entirely... but LTSP5 works fine on the rpi, more or less.
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| 17:08 | <gbaman> yea, sadly it does not support pulling OSs off the network
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| 17:10 | <jammcq> vagrantc: what bootloader are you using?
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> yeah, i haven't figured out a hack to get it to truely network boot, you have to load the kernel + initramfs off the SD card
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| 17:10 | <gbaman> for us that isnt a problem really, 24mb :)
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> jammcq: the rpi's builtin features ... just editing config.txt and stuff
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| 17:10 | <jammcq> hmm, dunno of the allwinner has those same built-in things or if that's unique to the Pi
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> jammcq: http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/rpi-ltsp-howto.txt
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| 17:10 | jammcq: that's my really *rough* howto
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc> jammcq: so it's another ARMv6 with VFP ?
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| 17:10 | <jammcq> ummm
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 17:11 | <jammcq> I don't even know the answers to those questions
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> jammcq: well, if it's ARMv7 capable, you probably want to run straight debian armhf...
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| 17:11 | <jammcq> hey vagrantc, are you doing alot with pi ?Processor: ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l)
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| 17:12 | oops
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| 17:12 | Processor: ARMv7 Processor rev 2 (v7l)
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| 17:12 | so that's "better" than Pi ?
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> yeah, you should be able to get that running with regular debian ... raspbian is essentially a rebuild of debian's armhf port for ARMv6
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| 17:13 | <jammcq> I've got a 8gb sd card and it has 4gb of nand
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| 17:13 | I'd like to get it installed on the nand, but that looks a bit tricky
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| 17:13 | <vagrantc> yeah, the SD card is probably easier to start with
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| 17:14 | * vagrantc has been messing with an openpandora.org all week | |
| 17:14 | <vagrantc> not really a candidate for LTSP, but it's a nice piece of hardwarae
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| 17:14 | <gbaman> hmmm, there must be a way for berryboot to get a network image
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| 17:14 | seeing as it can pull down images off the inernet
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> it wasn't working last i tried
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| 17:15 | that was a couple months ago, though
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| 17:15 | <gbaman> could always trick it with dns server...
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> i also tried a hack to load a kernel and initramfs, download a new kernel + initramfs off the network, and kexec boot those, but that didnt' work either
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| 17:16 | <gbaman> :)
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| 17:16 | well, its source code is out there :)
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> kexec on the architectures where it is most useful generally doesn't work ... works great on x86 :/
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| 17:17 | <gbaman> everything works great on x86
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| 17:17 | :)
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| 17:17 | so, any other ideas other than berryboot?
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> i'm fresh out
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| 17:18 | <gbaman> it should be fine with loading the /boot stuff
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| 17:18 | <vagrantc> might just not have unnderstood the berryboot syntax ... probably worth another look
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| 17:18 | <gbaman> as those are unlikely to change
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| 17:18 | what about the same way as we already do fat client but just write it to the sd card
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| 17:19 | * vagrantc hopes the next-generation RPI hardware will be ARMv7... | |
| 17:19 | * gbaman highly doubts it will be any time soon | |
| 17:19 | <vagrantc> there are several other options that are nearly as cheap, but far more capable
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| 17:21 | <gbaman> does not change the fact that my school will get raspberry pis, if anything
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| 17:23 | <muppis> At office we received 10 rpi's last week. I don't have a clue for what purpose.. :)
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| 17:23 | <gbaman> lol
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| 17:23 | ltsp!
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| 17:23 | http://cascadia.debian.net/~vagrant/rpi-ltsp-howto.txt
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| 17:23 | :)
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| 17:23 | <muppis> Hope so. :)
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> jammcq: the allwinner stuff looks decent ... hopefully they're upstreaming the kernel patches ... that's one of the common problems with arm hardware
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| 17:24 | <muppis> Propably something what I need to do, but I'll be last to be told..
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| 17:25 | <gbaman> hmm, could we not just change the script ltsp runs when the os is grabbed for fat client to write to the sd card?
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| 17:27 | or just run a script that writes it to sd card when the os loads
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| 17:27 | a startup script
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| 17:27 | <vagrantc> gbaman: there are a number of differences in the setup that would need to be conditionalized.
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| 17:27 | you need to hard-code a few things that are normally pulled from network settings and such
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| 17:28 | but yes, it is theoretically possible...
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| 17:28 | but you also want to be careful not to accidentally overwrite other SD images and such
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| 17:28 | <gbaman> how different though is fake fat client image we built for the pi and the image on the server?
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> not very, but the differences matter
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| 17:29 | * vagrantc isn't going to debate this any longer | |
| 17:29 | <gbaman> big differences?
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| 17:29 | or just config files?
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> i've documented what i have time for, experiment and find out! :P
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| 17:30 | <gbaman> maybe it is time to just grab the entire server image and throw it onto the second partition of the sd card....
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| 17:30 | what could possibly go wrong :)
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| 17:31 | ok, lets say in theory there was no changes needed to be made
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| 17:32 | would it be as simple as mounting the rofs and copying it to the sd card?
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| 18:05 | <alkisg> (08:08:06 μμ) gbaman: also, speed wise vagrantc, i noticed that the network booting took around 50-60 seconds while local took 30ish seconds, likely due to the pis 100/10 ethernet ==> Is that with NFS or squashfs'ed NBD?
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| 18:06 | <vagrantc> probably NFS ... squashfs will probably do better
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| 18:06 | <alkisg> Yeah I imagine it should be faster than local (low speed) sd card...
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| 18:07 | Or at least similar
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| 18:10 | gbaman: about local caching, what would work best is this: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/xnbd-server.8.html
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| 18:10 | You'd run this on the client, and xnbd-client on the client too
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| 18:11 | Then, the xnbd-server running on the client, would cache any read blocks on the local sd card
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| 18:11 | This wouldn't put any overhead on the network at all..
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| 18:12 | And about kernel updates, copying the new kernel via tftp to local sd card + rebooting once after the copy, would also work
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> vagrantc: have you ever tried or read about description translations in debian/control? Would "XB-Description-el_GR" work?
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| 18:19 | * alkisg is trying to internationalize the epoptes description without getting into http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/ddtp - which doesn't even have "el" listed... :-/ | |
| 18:19 | <markit> back and seeing a lot of talk about PI and ltsp :) Btw, http://cubieboard.org/ seems much better, and would work as fat client too I suppose (should be 2X the speed of PI)
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| 18:19 | <gbaman> alkisg: it was nfs, an interesting idea with xnbd...
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> gbaman: with gigabit server, 100 mbps clients, and 10-20 clients, you'll probably see that using local SD storage isn't really worth it
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| 18:20 | But it is worth it if your server <=> switch connection is 100 mbps
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| 18:20 | <gbaman> not sure what hardware the school has switch wise
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> (with squashfs'ed nbd, or compressed btrfs)
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| 18:21 | <gbaman> it would also be good to be able to use it without a network connection (using local accounts)
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> Then you'd want a fat image, not a thin one. Let's suppose that's 1 GB.
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| 18:22 | For 10 clients, you'd need to transfer 10 GB on every image update
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| 18:22 | With 100 Mbps server <=> switch connection, that would take hours...
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| 18:25 | <gbaman> the perfect soloution for us would be images are loaded locally (tricked fat clients) then if we want to update/reset them then we hold a key on boot or something then it grabs a copy of the perfect server one
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc: http://ddtp.debian.net/ddtss/index.cgi/de/translate/epoptes => so I could just translate the description there?!
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| 18:28 | <alkisg> gbaman: wouldn't it be easier to do it after the client has booted? Then the user could be working while the new image is downloading...
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| 18:29 | Also, that way it's just a simple shell script that you can run with ssh, epoptes, whatever
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| 18:29 | And there you have rsync available, so that you can continue the process on the next boot, if needed
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| 18:31 | <gbaman> aparently i timed out
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| 18:31 | anyway, tried a direct copy from the server image
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| 18:31 | it failed to find the ltsp server
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| 18:31 | but seemed to boot fine
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| 18:32 | a few odd errors but i doubt they were important :)
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| 18:32 | it was trying to connect to a different ltsp server which was weird
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't really know about translated control file stuff
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> Thanks... I also found this one, not sure if it sends the translations back to debian... https://translations.launchpad.net/ddtp-ubuntu/raring/+pots/ddtp-ubuntu-universe/el/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=epoptes
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| 22:30 | <Enslaver> ltsp rpm's accepted by EPEL today
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| 22:31 | <muppis> 7th or 8th of April as your local time?
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| 22:35 | <Enslaver> 7t
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| 22:35 | about to push them through to stable now
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| 22:35 | <jammcq> Enslaver: congrats... what is EPEL ?
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| 22:36 | <Enslaver> jammcq: Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux
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| 22:37 | the only repo that red hat doesn't charge for to use =)
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| 22:37 | <muppis> :)
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| 22:38 | <Enslaver> Once I submit the ok to EPEL can someone help me with getting it linked and announced on the site?
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| 22:38 | Hyper?
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| 22:43 | <jammcq> ah
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| 22:43 | I can help with that, and I can send out email announcements
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| 22:50 | <Enslaver> excellent
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| 22:57 | ok moved all rpm's to stable status
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| 23:01 | * vagrantc cheers | |