IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 September 2010 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <vagrantc> gpxe only works on x86, as far as i know
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| 00:01 | <vagrantc> gpxe has some support for wireless, and supports downloading kernel over ssl ... addressing one more layer deep of security might not be such a bad idea...
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| 00:01 | i.e. using encrypted root over the network or something
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| 00:07 | <johnny> wouldn't be that good unless you could store the key locally somehow
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| 00:20 | <vagrantc> would require a passphrase at boot, or somehow store it in gpxe... makes for a few more levels of security/illusion :)
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| 00:21 | <johnny> vagrantc, glad i don't need to care
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| 00:21 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 00:21 | <johnny> public webcafe with only a few terminals.. the standard is fine
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| 00:22 | everything still works for them, so i'm happy
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| 00:22 | it's been pretty great :)
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| 02:16 | <gnunux> hi
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| 03:46 | <isojussi> I have problem with one client. 10.04 ltsp5. It boots fine and gets into login screen but there is only background. no login box etc.
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| 03:55 | <alkisg> Out of ram?
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| 04:08 | <isojussi> works now, i installed fglrx into chroot and added XSERVER 0 radeon into lts.conf
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| 08:16 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 08:35 | <Kyle__> Ahh. Another day, another chance to prove incompetence.
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| 08:36 | <jammcq> I think one of the requirements for being incompetent is you can't KNOW you are incompetent
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| 08:36 | <Kyle__> jammcq: Give me one more day, I may just show that too
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| 08:36 | :D
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| 08:37 | * Kyle__ has has had the worst first-week-of-school since he was a kid. Working for a school was supposed to be different. Right? | |
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| 08:48 | <AndyGraybeal> Gadi: thank you for your response. sorry i responded a day later.
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| 08:48 | <Damianos> I have a weird problem. I am using LTSP5. The server has a NIC and a wireless. I can use the wireless interface to connect the server to the internet only if the wired NIC is disabled. I posted some info on my site with copies of configuration files. Here is the link: http://mellowdstudios.com/ltsp-nic-help
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> Damianos: are you using network manager?
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| 08:49 | <Damianos> yes
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> And you have a static ip for eth0 in /etc/network/interfaces?
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| 08:50 | <Damianos> I believe so...you can see exactly what I have going on at http://mellowdstudios.com/ltsp-nic-help
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> No, I can't
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| 08:50 | <Damianos> no?
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| 08:50 | hold on
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> I can only see the routes there, not your configuration files
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| 08:51 | Ah
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| 08:51 | Sorry I didn't see the attachments, if interfaces.conf is the one..
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| 08:51 | OK, so you have a static ip for eth0
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> AndyGraybeal: np - especially since I have no clue what I said, but if it helped, cheers!
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| 08:51 | :)
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| 08:51 | <AndyGraybeal> :)
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> Damianos: post your problem in this bug report, in case they finally work on it and solve it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/391040
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| 08:52 | (it also contains 2 workarounds)
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| 08:53 | <Damianos> will turning off network manager fix it? I don't mind learning to do things via command line
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| 08:53 | * Gadi wonders if this should go on the bts agenda: "Just a short note - LTSP 5.2 as it stands in Ubuntu 10.4 LTS is a piece of crap compared to 5.1." | |
| 08:53 | * Gadi further wonders how that translates to action items | |
| 08:53 | <Gadi> :)
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| 08:53 | <alkisg> TODO: uncrappify ltsp
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| 08:53 | <ogra> you should add "ltsp 5.3 will be even worse"
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| 08:53 | that will prevent to high expectations :)
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| 08:53 | <Gadi> ogra: !!!!!
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| 08:54 | <ogra> hey :)
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| 08:54 | * Gadi was starting to think you turned into a bot | |
| 08:54 | <alkisg> ...it's alive...
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| 08:54 | <ogra> nah, busy working to pay my new portia :)
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| 08:55 | http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/new_porsche/
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| 08:55 | <Gadi> lol
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| 08:55 | good for you - hitting your mid-life crisis early
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| 08:56 | you've always been an overachiever
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| 08:56 | <Damianos> The school system really ticks me off. They block irc and I have to take the server home and troubleshoot outside of the working environment
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| 08:56 | <ogra> Gadi, nah, thats over already mid-life crisis requires *red* sports cars
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| 08:56 | <Gadi> Damianos: use an ssh tunnel
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| 08:56 | :)
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| 08:57 | <Damianos> btw...all this "LTSP 5 is crap" talk is not instilling a whole lot of confidence going forward lol
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| 08:58 | I've never done anything with SSH before. What do I need to do from the outside?
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| 08:58 | <Kyle__> Ya know, I haven't heard a single "this is crap" type comment in what I've been reading.
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| 08:58 | Seems pretty good to me.
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| 08:58 | Damianos: what do you need to do with ssh?
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| 08:58 | <alkisg> Kyle__: there was a message in ltsp ml a few days ago saying exactly that
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| 08:59 | <Gadi> Damianos: do you have a box outside the network that runs an ssh server?
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| 08:59 | * Kyle__ only reads the ruby ml anymore, and even then rarely. | |
| 08:59 | <Kyle__> alkisg: That's a shame.
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> ...which is totally wrong, of course, just an unexplained opinion in the ml...
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| 08:59 | <Damianos> I have a box but it's not running an ssh server
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| 09:00 | <Kyle__> Well you know. Opinons are like a-holes: everyone has them, but somehow I'm the only one who's manaages to smell like roses..
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| 09:00 | * Kyle__ never quite figured out why either. | |
| 09:00 | <Gadi> Damianos: if you have it run ssh and make ssh available from the internet, you could do this from school: ssh -L 6667:localhost:6667 -f -N <ip_at_home>
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| 09:00 | <Kyle__> Damianos: Ah ok. Well first, make sure it's installed :) WHat distro? RHEL (or clone like CentOS), Fedora, Ubuntu?
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| 09:01 | <Gadi> Damianos: oops
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| 09:01 | I mean:
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| 09:01 | ssh -L 6667:irc.freenode.net:6667 -f -N <ip_at_home>
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| 09:01 | then, point your IRC account to localhost
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| 09:01 | * Kyle__ loves reverse ssh tunnels, but doesn't think that's realy what Damianos was looking for.... | |
| 09:01 | <Gadi> instead of irc.freenode.net
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| 09:02 | <Kyle__> alkisg: At this point in the morning, my humorsly mixed metaphors may be slightly off.
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| 09:02 | <Gadi> Kyle__: I thought he wanted to access IRC at work/school so he didn't need to take the server home for help
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| 09:02 | <Damianos> I'd be using my laptop with OSX as an ssh server (ssh service is not set up yet)
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| 09:02 | <alkisg> It's early afternoon here, time for a nap... later all :)
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| 09:02 | <Damianos> Kyle is right
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| 09:03 | <Kyle__> Damianos: Ahh. Well, I believe it's under the sharing control panel, but it's been awhile. It should be like 2 or three clicks to set it up.
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| 09:03 | <Damianos> oops, I meant Gadi is right
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| 09:03 | <Kyle__> oh.
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| 09:06 | <Damianos> Ok, I have ssh setup on OSX...gotta forward some ports and take the server to school
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| 09:06 | Thanks for the help guys
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| 09:45 | <lori_> I keep getting a permission denied in gpxe
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| 11:22 | <Gadi> any sabayon users in the room?
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| 11:23 | any mimes?
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| 11:24 | huh. typical
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| 11:24 | :)
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| 12:23 | * alkisg notes that scummvm runs fine on thin clients :) | |
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> I have an old wireless router available. I wonder if I could use that to boot thin clients over "wireless", like this:
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| 13:12 | thin client <=> wired <=> old router/switch <=> wireless <=> new router/switch <=> wired <=> ltsp server
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| 13:12 | Could a cheap router do that? Or would I need something special?
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| 13:15 | <johnny> you should probably with something that has Qos
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| 13:15 | and i have no idea how many clients it could handle
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| 13:16 | i guess you could always return it if it doesn't work out
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| 13:16 | try with an openwrt enablable router
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> I'm interested for just 1 client, so I don't mind about qos etc. But I don't think my old router (usr 9108) support wrt..
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| 13:19 | Hmmm... http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-turn-an-old-router-into-a-wireless-bridge/
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| 13:20 | I guess I need another router :)
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| 13:20 | http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices
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| 13:44 | <Kyle__> alkisg: scummvm? Isn't that the one to play old Zork games?
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> Yup - I've used it for my kids, to play monkey island ;)
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| 13:45 | <Kyle__> Hehe.
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| 13:45 | <alkisg> (I mentioned that in contrast with SDL which doesn't work well with thin clients)
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| 13:45 | <johnny> i thought they fixed that alkisg ?
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| 13:45 | <Kyle__> alkisg: SDL doesn't work nicely with thin clients? REally?
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| 13:45 | <johnny> i mean.. as good as it could be
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| 13:45 | pretty sure i saw a chagne tht sounded really promising
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> Well, e.g. smc gives 2-3 fps on thin clients ==> unplayable
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| 13:57 | <vmlintu> alkisg: I tried that kind of wireless bridge a while ago and it booted.. But latency is so much bigger than on wired network that everything feels like being attached to a rubber band..
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> vmlintu: with a wireless bridge? Or with dd-wrt on a normal router?
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| 14:01 | <vmlintu> alkisg: I'm not sure of the terms, but it was like this: thin client <=> wired <=> switch <=> wireless box <=> wireless box <=> switch <=> wired <=> ltsp server
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> vmlintu: got it, but can you define "wireless box" better?
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| 14:02 | What hardware was that?
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| 14:02 | <vmlintu> I don't remember the wireless box models anymore, but they were some standard 54mbps models (g) that had something that was called a bridge mode.
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> Thanks, I think that's what I need
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| 14:04 | <vmlintu> Basically the boxes had one rj45 port that connected to a switch and together two of them acted like there would be a wire between the two switches
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> That's what I want to do, link the two wireless boxes (=routers in my case) together. I saw that the dd-wrt firmware supports that (one just connects to the other with a normal wireless password + wpa encryption etc), but none of my routers support wrt :(
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| 14:07 | <abeehc-_> i've done it with buffalo whr54g
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| 14:07 | <abeehc-_> whr-hp-54g
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Merci, I'll see if I can get one of those
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| 14:08 | <abeehc-_> i think the broadcom wifi also supports doing a bridge and exposing one as a general AP
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| 14:08 | fun stuff, good devices
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| 14:11 | i guess it has two antennas but only one external
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| 14:43 | <litercola> can someone help me understand a little better the chroot enviornment, I have read about it but don't totally understand it.
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| 14:45 | I understand the difference between a thin and fat client. That the processing happens on the server vs client, however, I don't understand why a server would have to have packages installed in its filesystem instead of the chroot filesystem for a thin client to use them.
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> You can imagine it as a "small CD that is accessed though the network by the clients, and it only contains a minimal system for the clients to get an ldm (login) screen, and then connect to the server system"
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> So, when the users log in, they work on the server, that's why packages need to be installed to the server, not the chroot.
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| 14:47 | <litercola> that now makes sense
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> On the other hand, fat clients are "bigger CDs, something like the ubuntu live CD, which again is accessed though the network, but the users work on that, not on the server"
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| 14:48 | So for fat clients, packages are installed to the chroot
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| 14:48 | The server doesn't even need to have X installed in that case
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| 14:49 | <litercola> That makes sense too, for older hardware, would you recommend thin clients, or fat clients running a lesser desktop?
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> How old?
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| 14:49 | (RAM, mostly)
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| 14:49 | <litercola> p4 256 ram
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| 14:49 | <alkisg> Thin clients
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| 14:50 | And maybe some localapps, for multimedia apps
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| 14:50 | <litercola> gotcha, should I run the browser as local?
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> With 512 RAM, yes, but with 256, I don't think so...
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| 14:50 | <litercola> firefox or chrome?
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> chrome is better for ltsp
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| 14:51 | (when ran on the server, it doesn't use "pixmaps" == X RAM)
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| 14:51 | <litercola> cool, I'm just worried about flash and stuff crashing the server
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Of course if the clients have enough ram, it doesn't make any difference, firefox is good there too. But for low ram clients, chrome has an advantage...
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| 14:52 | Flash wouldn't crash the server, it would crash the X server == the client
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| 14:52 | In any case (fat / localapps / thin)
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| 14:53 | <litercola> I am using dnsmasq instead of dhcp3, I have already installed using ubuntu alternate cd, should I do a regular server install, as this server is also going to be the main dhcp and dns server, I am also curious if I need / want an ldap server
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> How many clients?
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| 14:54 | <litercola> 7-8 thin clients, 2 thin clients that run off an image from another server, 4 printers
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> (no need for a server install, the alternate cd is usually the recommented method)
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| 14:55 | I wouldn't get into ldap for such a small setup
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| 14:55 | <litercola> cool, we use google apps for email, calendar, docs etc
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| 14:57 | <litercola> 1 last question, I need to read up on some of the docs about locking down users and such, is there anything off the top of your head that I should do with groups security as far as basic linux permissions and stuff?
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> Some people want to change umask so that one user cannot see another user's documents. Also some other people enforce some mandatory settings with gconf. And others use "sabayon" to customize/lock many more aspects of the desktop.
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| 15:00 | <litercola> gotcha, but right out of the gate, is there much damage that a normal user could do by accident
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> Nope
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| 15:01 | <litercola> thank you, this is not the first time you have helped me. It is much appreciated.
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> You're welcome :)
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| 15:04 | <abeehc-_> hmmmmmmmmmmmmm chrome does rock i'm gonna be interested if it does youube better than my existing clients
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| 15:05 | chromium is better, actually
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> I think flash is about the same in all browsers
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| 15:06 | !flash
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| 15:06 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "flash" :: Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like https://addons.mozilla.org/el/firefox/addon/161869/ (per user installation, gecko-mediaplayer is also needed).
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> ^^that makes it better, but it's a little difficult to maintain
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| 15:09 | <litercola> thanks again, gotta run :)
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| 15:09 | <abeehc-_> well it's slightly different in chromium I think
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| 15:09 | being built-in vs. plugin model
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| 15:10 | for better or worse i'm not sure
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> The best for ltsp would be for flash to be ran on the client, while firefox runs on the server (with xembed)
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| 15:12 | <abeehc-_> yeah agreed for the most part
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| 15:12 | i suppose if your client cpu sucks it won't be good anyway
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| 15:13 | i'm trying to minimize my maintenance hell by moving from localapps ff/tbird/oo.org
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> For ancient clients yeah, but usually the network is the bottleneck for flash, and the server cpu, not the client cpu
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| 15:13 | <abeehc-_> hmm
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| 18:34 | * Kyle__ sighs | |
| 18:35 | <Kyle__> My system is so pissed at me. It's a virtualbox vm, and it keeps on throwing a guru-meditation error (and crashing), if my clients are used too much.
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| 18:35 | * Kyle__ is starting to hate computers. | |
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| 18:45 | <abeehc-_> Kyle__: memory issue more than likely
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| 18:48 | <Kyle__> abeehc-_: I dunno to be honest. Since the VM isn't using _all_ the memory on the host, you owuld think that it wouldn't be as easily repateable.
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| 18:48 | If it was memory.
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| 18:49 | <abeehc-_> i think if you increase the memory, and the vm lasts longer it might indicate that it is in fact memory
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| 18:50 | vbox also provides logs of some sort, which i assume are more detailed than what you've provided to this point
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| 18:50 | <Kyle__> abeehc-_: Guru meditation
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| 18:50 | <abeehc-_> i ran into memory issues that were non-obvious with vmware anyway
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| 18:51 | <Kyle__> After a full long dump of the state, that's the error at the end.
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| 18:51 | <abeehc-_> you should pastebin the whole thing?
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| 18:51 | that seems a little too generic
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| 18:51 | <Kyle__> Sure. Maybe you'll see somefin.
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| 18:51 | <abeehc-_> cool... what's the host o/s?
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| 18:51 | <Kyle__> OSX
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| 18:51 | <abeehc-_> haha interesting
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| 18:53 | <Kyle__> http://pastebin.com/X1xAf3Ni
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| 18:54 | There it is. I hope you'll see something that I don't, because I've been in this lab too logn today :)
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| 18:58 | <abeehc-_> yeah thats ugly I can't see much of anything
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| 18:59 | <Kyle__> See? Same here.
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| 18:59 | <abeehc-_> I wonder if there's a way to enable more verbose logging
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| 18:59 | <Kyle__> abeehc-_: I just tried brining down the memory, maybe if I keep it lower, it won't get to the bad part?
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| 19:00 | <abeehc-_> hmm I'd have to imagine it's more an issue of the available memory being exhausted
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| 19:00 | I'm not too familiar with vbox
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| 19:01 | but in vmware my trouble related to the driver it used to do memory balooning
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| 19:01 | i feel for you; but this loooks like the place
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| 19:01 | http://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch12.html
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| 19:02 | but yeah perhaps keeping it lower won't piss off the host
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| 19:02 | and the guest should just deal with it as it normally would when running low on memory or whatever
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| 19:02 | gotta run home i wish you luck
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| 19:06 | <Kyle__> abeehc-_: Ah. I don't think I'm using memory balooning at all. It's one of those things you have to manually specify (I think).
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| 19:08 | Here goes nothing. I'll do that evil deed that upsets the VM: sshing into all the ltsp-booted clients at once.
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| 19:10 | <Kyle__> Seems steady so far....
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| 19:13 | <Kyle__> I suppose that actually lends weight to the bad memory theory. Because ti was unstable, then after a bounce it was fine...
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