IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 30 October 2009 (all times are UTC)

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02:19	<Appiah> morning people
02:20	alkisg_work, sbalneav I found this http://www.nubae.com/logs/ltsp20090106_pg1.html , about "no response from server" being very long for someone who cant type in their password correctly. Is there a way to adjust it today?
02:20	And yes this LTSP setup is using ldap
02:49	<alkisg_work> Appiah: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/annotate/head%3A/src/sshutils.c
02:49	179 870.1.2 seen = expect(fd, lastseen, 30, SENTINEL, ": ", NULL);
02:49	^^ you have to change the code for those 30 seconds
02:49	But I don't think your problem is the 30 seconds, it's something else...
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02:56	<Appiah> first time it goes fast, second/third time it can become a black screen and comes back after ~1min30secs
02:56	ops , left
02:56	O_o
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03:19	<Appiah> 08:54 < Appiah> first time it goes fast, second/third time it can become a black screen and comes back after ~1min30secs
03:19	alkisg: you dont think thats related?
03:20	<alkisg> Hey Appiah. No, but I can't say for sure, I've never even used LDAP. How many users do you have?
03:20	<Appiah> I think there's about 30-40 users in there today
03:20	<alkisg> No no in total, in the LDAP database
03:20	<Appiah> yes i mean that
03:20	total users in the ldap database
03:21	max 50
03:21	<alkisg> OK, too little to be a problem
03:21	<Appiah> considering the test accoutns I have yet to delete
03:21	<alkisg> (I've heard problems but they had thousands of users...)
03:21	<Appiah> ah
03:22	<alkisg> Appiah: well, enable ldm logging and see the logs, and also on the server, to try to locate what is it waiting for all this time...
03:22	It can't be the 30" delay, as you experience an 1.30" delay
03:23	<Appiah> how do I enable that log and where will the log file end up?
03:23	<alkisg> Also try to login with ssh from a local client terminal and fail deliberately to see if that also causes delays
03:24	The log is a setting in lts.conf, and the log files will be on the client /var/log unless you modify the syslog to use the server's logs...
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03:24	<alkisg> !docs
03:24	<ltspbot> alkisg: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
03:24	<Appiah> oh the local client
03:24	sigh , I think I've forgotten the local password
03:24	<alkisg> Put SCREEN_02=shell in lts.conf and switch to vt2 with ctrl+alt+f2
03:25	<Appiah> ye thanks
03:25	<alkisg> That will get you a root prompt..
03:25	<Appiah> I will try that next week when I'm at the location
03:25	<alkisg> OK
03:25	<Appiah> Thanks
03:25	<alkisg> np... :)
03:25	<Appiah> I*ll see what I can find!
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06:34	* scottmaccal back in the saddle again
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06:52	<scottmaccal> !help
06:52	<ltspbot> scottmaccal: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
06:53	<scottmaccal> OK Mr. ltspbot what commands are available?
06:53	Hmm.
06:54	!help doc
06:54	<ltspbot> scottmaccal: Error: There is no command "doc".
06:54	<scottmaccal> !help docs
06:54	<ltspbot> scottmaccal: Error: There is no command "docs".
06:54	<scottmaccal> lol
06:54	<alkisg> !manual
06:54	<ltspbot> alkisg: "manual" is at http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html
06:55	<alkisg> Nah
06:55	<scottmaccal> heh
06:55	<alkisg> !commands
06:55	<ltspbot> alkisg: !j, add, alert, announce, any, apropos, ban add, ban list, ban remove, cache, calc, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, change, changename, channel, channels, clear, cmd, commands, config, cpu, cycle, default, defaultcapability, defaultplugin, dehalfop, deop, devoice, disable, dist, dns, dump, enable, export, fight, flush, (2 more messages)
06:55	<alkisg> scottmaccal: ^^ and you can "talk" to the bot privately if you want...
06:56	<scottmaccal> really?
06:56	how?
06:56	<alkisg> Just talk to it like you would to a person
06:56	<scottmaccal> thank you alkisg
06:56	<alkisg> :)
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07:15	<kdegel> ogra: are you around?
07:16	<garymc> I had my network HP printer working fine before a reinstall
07:17	now im trying to add the same printer and it isnt working
07:17	It now says missing driver
07:17	Anyone know how I add this printer and get it to work
07:18	<sbalneav> Does it see it on the network?
07:20	Oh and by the way, specifying what kind of printer it is MIGHT just help someone to debug this :)
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07:23	<garymc> yes it sees it on the network
07:23	hp 7300
07:24	now its sort of working
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07:27	<garymc> i plugged in the same make of printer into a differnt network slot and it works fine now
07:27	addd the drivers etc
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07:38	<IHS_Volunteer> So, on ubuntu 9.04, all the clients have ~7 floppies showing up on the desktop, previous LTSP server using ubuntu 9.04 didn't have that. Any idea what I may have done differently making the floppies show up?
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07:40	<scottmaccal> seen #ltsp cliebow
07:40	<ltsplogbot> I don't know who #ltsp is.
07:40	<scottmaccal> seen cliebow
07:40	<ltsplogbot> I don't know who cliebow is.
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07:50	<alkisg> !seen scottmaccal
07:50	<ltspbot> alkisg: scottmaccal was last seen in #ltsp 10 minutes and 4 seconds ago: <scottmaccal> seen cliebow
07:51	<IHS_Volunteer> !seen Bob_Dole
07:51	<ltspbot> IHS_Volunteer: Bob_Dole was last seen in #ltsp 20 weeks, 6 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <Bob_Dole> reading the next method explained the first better, so nevermind. It works :3
07:52	<alkisg> IHS_Volunteer: put each user in his own group
07:53	<IHS_Volunteer> alkisg, thanks, I'll try that.
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07:55	<bengoa> sbalneav, hello?
07:55	<IHS_Volunteer> and that didn't work.
07:58	<alkisg> IHS_Volunteer: do you have 7 different users with 7 different PRIMARY groups and you still see 7 floppies?
07:59	(of course when you change the primary group you have to logout and login again)
07:59	<IHS_Volunteer> alkisg, I have ~20 users. using the GUI, student1 is in main group student1.
07:59	and student 1 displays 7 floppies. the other users are all in different groups, and yes, I loggin out and back in.
08:00	<alkisg> Are they logged on now?
08:00	<IHS_Volunteer> 12 are logged on.
08:01	<alkisg> Can you paste the result of this to pastebot? for u in `w \| cut -d' ' -f1`; do id $u; done
08:05	<cpnogueira> Hey, I've searched for how to disable the sshd autentication on ltsp5 documentation, but I didn't find. There's a way to do this? Where can I find?
08:05	<IHS_Volunteer> !pastebot
08:05	<ltspbot> IHS_Volunteer: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
08:05	<alkisg> cpnogueira: you mean for the users to autologin?
08:06	Or to logon without a password?
08:06	<IHS_Volunteer> Wow, that's taking a while to load.
08:06	<alkisg> You can also use e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/
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08:07	<IHS_Volunteer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/305036/
08:08	They are all in the student group, but I can't tell if it's a main group. I'm surprised it didn't remove them from the student group when I told it to change groups in the GUI.
08:09	<alkisg> IHS_Volunteer: you need to change all the students with "gid=student"
08:09	<cpnogueira> alkisg: The X in ltsp 5 is default running over ssh (or I'm wrong?), I want to run X without ssh. This is possible?
08:10	<alkisg> cpnogueira: it's using ssh -X by default, but you can tell it to use ssh -Y (=no encryption for X)
08:10	You can do that with LDM_DIRECTX=True in lts.conf
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08:13	<cpnogueira> alkisg: and if I do that, the login will be encrypted?
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08:14	<Blinny> Gratz to all the 'buntu folks, and thank you for your hard work.
08:19	<alkisg> cpnogueira: yes
08:19	the login will be encrypted, but all X traffic will be unencrypted
08:20	<cpnogueira> alkisg: Thank you very much =)
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08:37	<scottmaccal> !seen cliebow
08:37	<ltspbot> scottmaccal: cliebow was last seen in #ltsp 17 hours, 23 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <cliebow> and to all a good night..
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08:46	<squarepeg> scottmaccal, how goes the battle..
08:47	<sbalneav> bengoa: Hello!
08:47	Morning all
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08:48	<bengoa> sbalneav, hey buddy. how are u?
08:48	<sbalneav> I'm doing great!
08:48	How about you?
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08:48	<bengoa> I'm fine too. Thanks.
08:49	<kdegel> anyone been successful in installing LTSP on ubuntu 9.10?
08:49	karmic something
08:49	<IHS_Volunteer> Koala
08:49	<kdegel> yeah
08:49	stupid names haha
08:50	<IHS_Volunteer> and I haven't. I couldn't get the clients to login.
08:50	<sbalneav> I hear you're coming to BTS next year
08:50	<kdegel> IHS_Volunteer: me either!
08:50	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/463369
08:50	<IHS_Volunteer> I just went back to Jaunty, which works fine.
08:50	<kdegel> really stinks because I'm kind of doing a project that will be needing this function haha :(
08:51	well I was pushing for 8.04 so we could do LTS updates, but theres an issue with the older virtualbox and others in my team want 9.10...so...
08:51	<sbalneav> Hmm, well it SHOULD log in, did with my testing.
08:52	kdegel: can you enable a shell on your thin client with a SCREEN_02=shell in your [default] section in lts.conf
08:52	<IHS_Volunteer> I was getting a different bug. It never authenticated, even with ssh updates and re-building the chroot thing.
08:52	<kdegel> sbalneav: I'm not familure with doing this, but I can sure try
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08:53	<scottmaccal> squarepeg: not bad I think
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08:53	<scottmaccal> what were you able to accomplish?
08:54	<IHS_Volunteer> Canonical updates the disks themselves after a few months, right?
08:54	<sbalneav> Well, I'm pretty sure we can fix this fairly easily.
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08:55	<kdegel> sbalneav: hm...is lts.conf not in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386?
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08:55	<squarepeg> i jsut have to add some stuff to dhcp and see if it will netbooe
08:55	<sbalneav> yes. But it's not normally there by default, as things will autoconfig without it.
08:55	<squarepeg> t
08:55	<sbalneav> so you'll just have to create one.
08:56	<kdegel> ahh, just create one that says [default] SCREEN_02=shell
08:56	and save
08:57	sbalneav: will I have to update the image or anything?
08:57	<sbalneav> the default and screen bits should be on separate lines.
08:57	<kdegel> I'm thinking I don't
08:57	<sbalneav> no, just reboot
08:57	<IHS_Volunteer> reboot the clients.
08:57	<sbalneav> then ctl-alt-f2 should get you a shell
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08:59	<kdegel> ok I may have to log off here and log on from another box, I'm on the server that is running ltsp and, as the bug mentions, this will break the gui where I can't read anything
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09:03	<sbalneav> Well, we'll need you to also be sitting at the thin client.
09:03	so you'll need two boxes side by side
09:04	either that, or do a lot of running
09:05	<kdegel> sbalneav: I'm not sure if this is normal
09:05	its showing the PXE boot text, but no GUI loaded, I can do a alt-F2 and I'm at a root prompt, already logged in
09:05	<sbalneav> that's right
09:05	<kdegel> and they aren't side by side, but close, just a table right behind me
09:05	ok
09:05	<sbalneav> thats what we want.
09:06	<kdegel> ok good
09:06	<sbalneav> ok, so what we want to do is do an "ssh -l <user> 192.168.0.254"
09:06	where "<user>" is one of your users
09:07	<kdegel> x.x.x.254 being the server ip right?
09:07	<sbalneav> correct
09:08	did you get logged in as the user?
09:08	<kdegel> yes
09:09	<sbalneav> any errors?
09:09	or just sitting at the login prompt?
09:09	<kdegel> in auth.log?
09:09	just a regular prompt
09:09	<sbalneav> ok
09:09	<kdegel> seems logged in fine
09:10	<sbalneav> so, now we want to add "SCREEN_07=ldm" to the lts.conf file, so we'll get BOTH a shell, and the login windo.
09:10	reboot, and ping me.
09:10	<kdegel> ok
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09:11	<Gadi> kdegel: one other thing you might try (and this may sound strange) is, on the server: sudo mv /var/log/Xorg.0.log /var/log/Xorg.0.log.bak
09:11	and then try to log in through ldm
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09:13	<kdegel> sbalneav: done, I can access the gui and cli via alt-F2/F7
09:13	Gadi: I will keep that in mind, thanks
09:14	<sbalneav> ok, so try logging in on the gui, then switch to alt-f2
09:14	<kdegel> ok this will probably ruin the server gui, let me log off real quick and back on
09:14	<sbalneav> wait, this ruins the SERVER gui?
09:15	it shouldn't touch the server gui at all.
09:15	<kdegel> yes
09:16	<sbalneav> ok
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09:17	<sbalneav> just out of curiosity, add LDM_DIRECTX=True to your lts.conf and reboot the thin client.
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09:18	<sbalneav> Hmmm, I wonder if he's logging in on the thin client AS THE SAME USER he's logging in on the console.
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09:18	<sbalneav> that's the only way I can think of that they'd interact
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09:18	<kdegel> sbalneav: pretty colors on alt-f2
09:19	<sbalneav> kdegel: You're not logging in on the thin client as the same person as you're logged in on the console, are you?
09:19	<kdegel> its showing kind of a white screen, but blue on the bottom with a brown streek on the right side
09:19	no
09:19	I have a generic user called store1
09:19	* Gadi points finger at compiz
09:20	<sbalneav> and it's screwing up the SERVER console, AS WELL AS the thin client
09:20	Gadi: yeah
09:20	<kdegel> the gui part, yes
09:20	<Gadi> kdegel: try my suggestion above
09:20	<kdegel> also I have (as ogra or someone else suggested) logged in on the server as store1 and made sure all the gui stuff was turned off
09:21	<Gadi> doesn't matter if it is turned off, tho- I don't think, because compiz still does its checks
09:21	and I think the checks are killing you
09:21	<scottmaccal> !paste
09:21	<ltspbot> scottmaccal: "paste" is try !pastebot
09:21	<sbalneav> right.
09:21	<kdegel> so move .xorg or whatever file it was (I saved the info) and reboot the server and try again?
09:21	<scottmaccal> !pastebot
09:21	<ltspbot> scottmaccal: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
09:22	<Gadi> kdegel: no - don't reboot the server
09:22	just move the log file
09:22	<kdegel> ok
09:22	<Gadi> and reboot the client
09:22	and login from the client
09:22	<sbalneav> Gadi: Can you take over from here? I got a ded DSL line, and I need to wander over to another office.
09:22	^%$^%$* compiz
09:22	<Gadi> roger, roger
09:22	* sbalneav shakes fist at Shuttleworth
09:22	<Gadi> they never applied my patch to turn compiz off on remote logins
09:23	bastards
09:23	:)
09:23	<sbalneav> ok, off for a bit.
09:23	bbiab
09:23	* kdegel rebooting thin client with hopes/dreams/etc..
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09:25	<kdegel> ho-ly F@#$% it works!!!
09:25	* kdegel dances/leaves work for the weekend (I wish haha)
09:26	<kdegel> omg our team owes #ltsp a few pints
09:26	Gadi:
09:26	sbalneav:
09:26	ogra:
09:26	thank you all
09:26	<Gadi> kdegel: one sec
09:26	before you go
09:26	<kdegel> I'm not going anywhere
09:26	<Gadi> that fix is only temporary
09:27	it will revert back next time you boot the server
09:27	that was just to prove the theory
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09:27	<Gadi> let me paste you something to fix it
09:27	hehe
09:27	<kdegel> oh I know, but I can concentrate on some much-needed-work/design/etc..
09:28	Gadi: ok but I do need to reboot this server, I have screen going so I shouldn't log off (logged in from my home server)
09:28	brb
09:28	<stgraber> sbalneav: ping
09:29	sbalneav: if you still have that window manager code, I'd be interested in having a look at it.
09:29	<Gadi> kdegel: http://pastebin.com/m2c44b744
09:29	that's an /usr/bin/compiz script (adapted from the interpid one) that should solve the problem
09:30	if you grab that, back up /usr/bin/compiz, and then replace it with this one and make it executable
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09:30	<Gadi> you should be good to go
09:30	<kdegel> back
09:31	<Gadi> stgraber: have you seen the chatter about poeroff -p?
09:31	*poweroff
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09:33	<Gadi> kdegel: did you see my paste?
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09:37	<kdegel> Gadi: yes, did that, and restarted the server, about to move the lts.conf file that I created with sbalneav and then reboot the thin client
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09:42	<kdegel> BOOYAAHHH!
09:42	Gadi:
09:42	sbalneav:
09:42	it worked!
09:43	Gadi: so what will this mean as far as moving forward and receiving updates
09:43	should be ok?
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09:43	<Gadi> well, the only update that may revert it is an update to compiz
09:43	so, keep an eye out for that
09:43	<CAN-o-SPAM> hey all
09:43	<kdegel> for sure
09:43	<Gadi> (ie, keep that script handy)
09:43	:)
09:43	<kdegel> oh yes
09:44	<Gadi> also, you won't have compiz effects on the clients, unless you set a flag in lts.conf
09:44	to tell the client to "skip checks"
09:44	stgraber added a flag in karmic, I believe
09:44	<kdegel> should I link that to my bug report and leave it open until an update fixes it?
09:44	<Gadi> yes - and link the bug report to compiz
09:45	because the fix would be theirs to make
09:45	<scottmaccal> hmm, getting a time-out when trying to load http://pastebot.ltsp.org/
09:45	<Gadi> not ours
09:45	:)
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09:45	<Gadi> what the script does, btw, is disables compiz on remote connections
09:45	<kdegel> ok, not sure how to change the bug report, but I will poke around
09:45	<Gadi> requiring remote connections to explicitly request it with skip checks
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09:46	<Gadi> because currently, the checks that compiz does are not good ones for a remote Xserver
09:46	they kinda assume a local Xserver
09:46	fools!
09:46	<kdegel> yeah, I never would have thought (of course not an expert on LTSP) that it would have been compiz, but it sure does make sense
09:46	<Gadi> ;)
09:47	ny time you get a display and it is severely mangled these days,
09:47	<kdegel> #ltsp wins again!
09:47	<Gadi> the #1 place to look is compiz
09:47	:)
09:47	<stgraber> Gadi: yep, I'm going to include that patch for poweroff, it makes quite some sense
09:47	Gadi: though, I'm not sure I'll have time for a SRU any time soon
09:47	<Gadi> stgraber: or would you prefer to better handle the networking upstart scritps?
09:47	as vagrantc suggests
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09:48	<Gadi> do you recall why you changed the poweroff code initially?
09:48	<stgraber> Gadi: well, on a thin client, I'd think we want to have shutdown/reboot as fast as possible
09:48	<Gadi> you must have been solving something?
09:49	<kdegel> baahh
09:49	ok new problem haha
09:49	<stgraber> I don't think I changed something there, I did some changes in the shutdown/reboot code with the localapps launchers
09:49	<Gadi> one per customer :P
09:49	<stgraber> and for them, I'm using -f
09:49	<scottmaccal> is ltsp.org down?
09:49	<Gadi> stgraber: the logs say otherwise ;)
09:50	<kdegel> Gadi: so the screen on the server went corrupt again, I turned around and the screen was blank, it was just in sleep mode or whatever
09:50	I'm sure a fix would be to disable screensavers/sleepmode or something, but...
09:50	<Gadi> kdegel: well, the fix you just did affects remote connections
09:50	so, if the server has its own compiz issues
09:51	<kdegel> ok
09:51	<Gadi> then, the fix won't help with that
09:51	<kdegel> this wasn't the server going to sleep, it was the thin client
09:51	<CAN-o-SPAM> scottmaccal : ltsp.org appears to be down, we'll get it fixed ASAP
09:51	<kdegel> but I will add this to the bug report
09:51	<Gadi> oh - you mean dpms?
09:51	power-save on the monitor?
09:51	<kdegel> yes
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09:52	<Gadi> you can adjust that with the lts.conf param: X_BLANKING
09:52	set this to number of seconds
09:52	0 means never
09:52	<stgraber> Gadi: oh, really ? ;)
09:52	<Gadi> stgraber: rev 942 or some such
09:52	:)
09:52	<kdegel> yeah, just that we don't want these to never be off, but for the time being
09:53	<Gadi> kdegel: once logged in, the screensaver may adjust this again
09:53	you can use gconf-editor to disable screensavers
09:53	if you like
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09:54	<kdegel> yup, of course this is not ideal for the long run, as we don't want all of the monitors to stay up (users can't be trusted to turn off thin clients haha)
09:54	<stgraber> Gadi: must have been when I was trying to cleanly shutdown nbd which proved to be almost impossible to do
09:54	Gadi: I'll revert that change.
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09:57	<Gadi> kdegel: so, the thin clients' screen is corrupt when it comes out of sleep?
09:57	<kdegel> no, the servers screen
09:57	thin clients are fine
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09:59	<Gadi> oh!
09:59	yeah, so foget about all the blanking and such for the clients
09:59	:)
10:00	as for the server, you just need to tell it to not use compiz
10:00	<kdegel> ok, I will have to find out where this is located, its not in the gui (cause thats turned off)
10:06	<Gadi> kdegel: well, I guess we can just modify that /usr/bin/compiz script a bit more
10:06	:)
10:07	<kdegel> I'm looking now how the best way to do this, this will be going out to 300+ stores, want to make it as solid as possible
10:07	can't a guy just uninstall the whole thing? or does this cause mroe harm than good?
10:09	<Gadi> yeah, you can prolly uninstall compiz
10:09	give it a try and see what it wants to rip out along with it
10:09	what kind of stores, btw?
10:10	* Gadi is a curious non-feline
10:13	<squarepeg> you old dog you
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10:19	<kdegel> Gadi: furniture
10:20	and it looks like aptitude remove compiz just wants to remove compiz, and thats it
10:20	lets reboot and see what happens :)
10:25	hm... I didn't look real carefully after the initial success, but now the screen on the thin client is all....line-y
10:25	like a big magnet is behind the monitor or something
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10:31	<cliebow> sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --copy-sourceslist --security=none
10:33	scottmaccal, sudo ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --copy-sourceslist --security=none
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10:40	<coordinador> Hello
10:40	i am doing the following instructions to run firefox in localapps: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1040198.html
10:40	i hope it helps to everybody
10:42	since i have a problem, my ltsp clients run very slow when showing youtube
10:42	i mean, very very slow
10:45	i am running like 10 youtubes and the boxes absolutelly collapsed
10:45	<kdegel> has it ever worked? cause every distro I have tested with flash, no matter the website, just flash in general, fails
10:46	flash just fails with linux
10:46	or the other way around, whatever
10:46	<Blinny> I have nice flash working with Hardy Heron, using 64-bit Shockwave Flash 10.0 d20
10:46	<kdegel> Gadi:
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10:47	<kdegel> I uninstalled compiz, restarted the server, thin client boots fine, but the server's gui is doing the same thing as it was before....
10:47	let me test one more time...
10:48	<squarepeg> scottmaccal, still a typo
10:48	ubuntu-ports --
10:48	havnt been able to copy/paste
10:49	<cliebow> sc try one more time by hand
10:50	<scottmaccal> ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports -- --copy-sourceslist --security=none
10:50	ltsp-build-client --mirror http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports --copy-sourceslist --security=none
10:50	that command above seemed to work
10:50	or be working
10:51	<cliebow> looks good
10:51	<scottmaccal> Cool. I will go with that one.
10:52	<CAN-o-SPAM> !s
10:52	<ltspbot> CAN-o-SPAM: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:53	<scottmaccal> Wow! Go ltspbot go!
10:54	CAN-o-SPAM: did we meed at LTSP By the Sea?
10:54	Meet I mean.
10:56	<CAN-o-SPAM> scottmaccal: unfortunatley, no ... i was able to attend this year ...
10:57	<squarepeg> scottmaccal, you met his Dad
10:58	<scottmaccal> Bummer. I met Gadi at FOSSed a few years ago although I doubt he would remember me.
10:58	<coordinador> help please, hi, im trying to run firefox as localapp, im doing the instructions of this http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1040198.html website, i dont understand what means the last message of "zaltabar" (the one who says "It works! Turns out...")
10:58	<johnny> i met gadi once.. an experience i hope to never repeat again
10:59	jk Gadi
10:59	<Gadi> u know, just because a guy drinks a little...
10:59	;)
10:59	brb, guys - concall
10:59	<johnny> that's what happens
10:59	what a guy
10:59	see you can tell i was just too jealous, he's a popular guy
11:00	<scottmaccal> hehehe
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11:01	<johnny> firefox awesome bar == awesome
11:02	now if only it could auto vacuum itself
11:04	<sbalneav> Gadi: was it compiz?
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11:10	<sbalneav> kdegel: Was it compiz?
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11:31	<kdegel> sbalneav: I'm not sure
11:32	I just uninstalled compiz, but not the compiz-core (now that I looked for all packages)
11:32	so I'm going to do that, do more testing, I will give you and update
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11:37	<coordinador> hi i have a problem
11:37	my machines are running localapps
11:37	but they cannot resolve addresses
11:38	<kdegel> sbalneav:
11:38	Gadi:
11:38	this from #compiz-fusion
11:38	11:40 < adamk_> kdegel_: That's not a compiz bug./
11:38	11:41 < adamk_> kdegel_: compiz isn't even starting. compiz-manager is falling back to metacity.
11:38	11:41 < adamk_> Because you are using the software rasterizer.
11:38	about my bug that I linked
11:39	<Gadi> right - it is not compiz itself - it is the check that compiz does that doesn't agree with your driver
11:39	so, they may say "it is a buggy video driver, not compiz"
11:39	:P
11:39	this is how things don't get fixed :)
11:41	<kdegel> ahh... :(
11:42	<sbalneav> coordinador: for the videos, are they JUST running youtube?
11:42	If so, HQtube might help you
11:42	!flash
11:42	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "flash" is Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
11:43	<coordinador> sbalneav, yes it runs youtube but very VERY slow, so i decided to run firefox locally
11:43	HQtube?
11:43	:O
11:44	<Gadi> kdegel: you can show adamk_ that in your logs that you attached to the bugs, when compiz checks for indirect rendering, then the connection to the remote Xserver dies, and THEN compiz says it is falling back to metacity
11:44	so, yeah, compiz falls back to metacity, bug deal
11:44	<coordinador> oh god its perfect, ill try
11:45	<Gadi> in the process of checking, it killed the connection to the remote Xserver
11:45	*big
11:45	<coordinador> sbalneav, i clicked in "install" and then appeared the code
11:46	sbalneav, ok, installing greasemonkey...
11:47	oh god i got "HQTube needs updating, it is no longer compatible."
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11:48	<dro> has anyone setup proxydhcp with 9.10 yet?
11:49	<johnny> no.. but why would it be any different
11:49	than any other
11:49	<dro> the pxelinux.cfg/default is different
11:49	<alkisg> dro: you ... right
11:49	<dro> lol
11:49	<alkisg> So if you're blindly following the instructions, it won't work
11:49	<dro> alkisg: I followed your tutorial last night, and I had problems after but ended up being something else
11:50	alkisg: no you walked me thru a setup once in the past, I took notes :)
11:50	<alkisg> But if you put ipappend 3 in that new pxelinux.cfg/default file, you won't have a problem...
11:50	Just don't do the update-kernels.conf stuff, that needs updating
11:50	<dro> alkisg: do you still need the nbdroot:ip:2000 in there, if I remember right
11:51	* alkisg thinks not...
11:51	<coordinador> sbalneav, is there besides userscript, it says its no longer compatible
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11:51	<alkisg> dro: ah, there are 2 ways to do it
11:51	<dro> alkisg: I'll do more testing next week and let you know how to do it
11:51	<alkisg> dro: either with ipappend 3, or with nbdroot=<ip>:2000
11:52	<dro> alkisg: cool ty for the info, I'll do more reading and experimenting this weekend or next week
11:52	<alkisg> dro: that hasn't changed. Just the update-kernels.conf now doesn't support the PXE_CMDLINE variable, and you need to put it to BOOTPROMPT_OPTS
11:52	let me get you the exact lines...
11:52	<dro> ok cool, ty
11:52	<IHS_Volunteer> disabling Flow Control and setting DIRECTX really improves performance
11:53	<coordinador> sbalneav, actually im going to fix the localapps issue, my machines are powerful enought to do it, my problem is that /etc/resolv.conf has -------- permissions, i did the script trick to change pemissions but it doesnt changes
11:53	<IHS_Volunteer> went from bandwidth maxing out at ~50MiB/s(with just flow control off) to ~80MiB/s(with both) while 20-30MiB/s was the max with flow control on and Directx off.
11:54	<alkisg> dro: echo "BOOTPROMPT_OPTS='quiet splash'
11:54	IPAPPEND=3" \| sudo tee /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
11:54	(paste both of the lines at once...)
11:54	<dro> alkisg: ty, I will make note of that
11:55	<alkisg> dro: please put that on the wiki as well...
11:55	(specifically for 9.10...)
11:55	<dro> alkisg: I will once I test it
11:55	<alkisg> Thanks
11:55	<dro> no thank you!
11:55	<kdegel> Gadi:
11:55	12:52 < adamk_> compiz is not checking for indirect rendering.
11:55	12:52 < adamk_> glxinfo is being called by compiz-manager.
11:55	12:52 < adamk_> glxinfo is causing X to crash.
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11:58	<kdegel> Gadi: more info
11:59	12:55 < soreau> That was worded poorly at best, but what adamk is telling you is that compiz itself (compiz.real in this case) is never actually being called. It detects your brokens drivers and falls back to metacity
11:59	12:56 < adamk_> Except that in the process of detecting your broken drivers (which is what glxinfo is used for), your X server is crashing.
11:59	I am starting to think it is the drivers that are causing the issue, as you mentioned, stupid ATI, I've always hated them with linux
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12:02	<cpnogueira> fotanus: =P
12:02	<coordinador> help please
12:04	<fotanus> cpnogueira: :)
12:09	<bengoa> fotanus, cpnogueira :o)
12:09	<cpnogueira> hsauioashuoiashsa
12:09	bengoa: o/
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12:14	<Gadi> kdegel: told ya - its a buggy driver
12:14	:)
12:15	coordinador: you on jaunty?
12:16	<coordinador> Gadi, yes
12:16	i resolved the issue of permissions
12:16	i have firefox locally with flash :)
12:16	<Gadi> ah, good
12:16	<coordinador> but, i have a problem now
12:16	<Gadi> the hits just keep on comin'....
12:16	:)
12:16	<coordinador> the majoriry of youtube vids appeared as "an error ocurred, pleae try again later "
12:16	ahah yes
12:17	<Gadi> hmm...
12:17	<coordinador> i dont know why, it could be dns problem?
12:17	<Gadi> could be
12:17	<coordinador> since some websites are resolved, other dont
12:17	ok
12:17	ill change the dns in chroot and rebuild image
12:18	<cyberorg> sbalneav, sorry had to rush the other day, here are my thoughts http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Community
12:19	<Gadi> coordinador: use: DNS_SERVER and SEARCH_DOMAIN in lts.conf
12:20	<cpnogueira> coordinador: I had the same problem, my resolv.conf is empty on client, because the permissions are wrong. I fix this with a script http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1040198.html that change the permission
12:20	<coordinador> yes cpnogueira i resolved that :) thank you
12:20	Gadi, ill do
12:21	now ill reboot boxes :)
12:22	Gadi, can i configure more than 1 dns server?
12:24	<Gadi> not that way
12:24	er, not in lts.conf
12:24	we should put that on the list of todos
12:24	:)
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12:31	<IHS_Volunteer> my testing wednesday or thursday proved I can't keep the clients(students) off of youtube without removing flash, or doing something complicated... so now I'm testing, again, how the machines play youtube. I have several 100mbit clients, with the server hooked up on gigabit. so far, ~6 clients can play a youtube video smoothly. The pentium1 doesn't really play it smoothly, though, I'm wondering if the CPU has eno
12:31	ugh oomph along with a Rage II to even display an uncompressed video locally..
12:31	<sbalneav> IHS_Volunteer: use hqtube
12:31	!flash
12:31	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "flash" is Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
12:32	<sbalneav> Running flash to view youtube == dead server
12:33	running hqtube which uses gstreamer stack == happy server
12:33	cyberorg: thanks for the link.
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12:35	<IHS_Volunteer> sbalneav, do I need to do that for all accounts?
12:36	<sbalneav> Unfortunately, yes.
12:36	<IHS_Volunteer> joy.
12:37	<sbalneav> It would be nice if there was some way to install GM scripts "globally"
12:37	<johnny> can't you put some of of that in the global config file?
12:37	or do it in /etc/shell
12:37	err /etc/skel
12:37	<sbalneav> Maybe. I've never had the time to investigate it.
12:37	<johnny> IHS_Volunteer, if you put a good config in /etc/skel all new users will get it
12:37	but you might have to modify it a bit
12:38	<sbalneav> The HQtube script ought to be shipped "out of the box" IMHO.
12:38	<johnny> by who? distros?
12:38	<sbalneav> yeah
12:38	or at least be an installable package.
12:39	hm
12:39	* sbalneav googles for "global greasemonkey script"
12:40	<johnny> the real problem here.. is similiar to issues fought by sabayon
12:40	<IHS_Volunteer> I don't know much about sabayon
12:40	<johnny> IHS_Volunteer, it's just all these different apps using different config formats and storing them in different locations
12:41	and not seperating data that needs tobe kept (bookmarks, config settings, etc) and the cache
12:41	so it's hard to design a lockdown mechanism that works with everything
12:42	<IHS_Volunteer> The pentium1 locked up. I hit ctrl+alt+f1, and it doesn't take me to the not loginable VT thing.
12:42	<johnny> you might have ran out of memory
12:42	<coordinador> oh god i did it! i finally have firefox running locally with flash, SO FAST :D
12:43	<johnny> IHS_Volunteer, reallly you should drop the p1..
12:43	<coordinador> they are 20 machines :) thank you all
12:43	<johnny> IHS_Volunteer, most distros are compiled to i686 now
12:43	most..
12:43	so they won't even work on your p1 in the long run
12:43	i know fedora won't now
12:43	they finally switched to 686 from 586 for f12
12:44	<cpnogueira> coordinador: did you use the HQtube?
12:44	<IHS_Volunteer> johnny, well, that'll make things faster...and we have a load of P2's through P3's and about 60 P1's.
12:44	<sbalneav> aahhhh-HAH
12:44	http://www.mail-archive.com/greasemonkey-users@googlegroups.com/msg00615.html
12:45	<johnny> IHS_Volunteer, personally i would avoid running anything less than 500mhz if at all possible
12:45	i guess it'll be awhile before all those p1's die tho
12:46	<IHS_Volunteer> johnny, really? the 300-350mhz P2 seems to be working great.
12:46	<johnny> but die they will.. someday..
12:46	<coordinador> cpnogueira, no, it says that is not longer compatible
12:46	i used localapps
12:46	i have to go, bye
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12:46	<sbalneav> coordinador: check the hqtube page
12:46	there's a patch
12:46	<johnny> he should try to do a little troubleshotting on his own more often :(
12:47	<sbalneav> http://userscripts.org/topics/38351
12:47	Man.
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12:47	<sbalneav> someone needs to take ownership of the hqtube script.
12:47	sigh
12:52	It's such a useful thing, especially for thin client users.
12:55	and I need to package something up to get mou
12:55	err
12:55	motu
12:55	If I made a HQTube package for Ubuntu, would anyone be interested in helping test?
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13:00	<cyberorg> sbalneav, "World of FREE streaming porn!"??
13:01	<chrisinajar> cyberorg: i saw that too :P
13:01	<cyberorg> hah anything to make LTSP sexier?
13:02	bengoa has quit IRC
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13:08	<sbalneav> Where's this?
13:10	was there a mention to porn in something I posted?
13:15	<chrisinajar> sbalneav: google HQTube
13:16	shawnp0wers has quit IRC
13:17	<sbalneav> ah, ok, well, if you click outside of the links I post... :)
13:19	My favourite used to be the person who had www.porb.com
13:19	It was just one page, with 64 point fonts saying "ARE YOU LOOKING FOR PORN?!"
13:22	alkisg1 has quit IRC
13:23	<chrisinajar> haha
13:23	that's pretty awesome
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13:24	<vagrantc> sbalneav: hqtube makes flash not crash the server, you say?
13:25	really, i just gotta enable LTSP_FATCLIENT=true and call it a day. our poor, fraile servers just ain't made of the stuff to handle several users anymore.
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13:25	<vagrantc> thank you, Bloated Desktop Software
13:26	* Gadi thinks vagrantc does not use hulu.com
13:26	<Gadi> :)
13:26	<sbalneav> vagrantc: yeah, hqtube replaces the flash plugin with a gstreamer (i.e. totem) window
13:26	<Gadi> hmmm... maybe vagrantc is an alien....
13:26	<CAN-o-SPAM> maybe he uses the Hulu Client
13:27	anyoen trieed that with LTSP yet?
13:27	<sbalneav> it can even be resized on the screen.
13:27	<chrisinajar> CAN-o-SPAM: hulu client runs slow on my home computer, let alone on a thin client :P
13:27	<sbalneav> it can also be configured for mplayer, etc.
13:27	<CAN-o-SPAM> chrisinajar: hulu client runs great on my ASUS HE1000 running 9.04 :)
13:27	<johnny> flash == terrible :(
13:27	<chrisinajar> We did try it here though, the interface is expectedly laggy but it's usuable, the video is fine...
13:27	<sbalneav> hold on... I'll paste some stats
13:28	<vagrantc> sbalneav: does it require adobe flash installed, or does it work with other things?
13:28	<chrisinajar> CAN-o-SPAM: an app doing what it's doing should not use the resources it uses :P
13:29	<sbalneav> 10240 sbalneav 20 0 324m 143m 29m S 17 3.6 1:29.42 firefox
13:29	<vagrantc> sbalneav: it basically allows you to use totem, mplayer, or whatever instead of adobe flash?
13:29	<sbalneav> ok, there's me running a youtube video, 17% cpu utilaztion
13:29	vagrantc: right, for flash movies (flv) only
13:29	<vagrantc> sbalneav: that's something, though.
13:29	<Gadi> sbalneav: yeah, but how much for totem?
13:30	<sbalneav> here's totem
13:30	4036 sbalneav 20 0 130m 32m 13m S 4 0.8 0:00.90 totem-plugin-vi
13:30	at 4%
13:31	AND it's much smoother.
13:31	<Gadi> the proof is in the pudding
13:31	mm.... pudding....
13:31	<sbalneav> AND I can resize the window
13:32	I'll look at packaging it up
13:32	<Gadi> now, when youleave the site and stuff, and close firefox, does it handle everything gracefully
13:32	using external movie players used to always make defunct procs
13:32	<sbalneav> when I close firefox:
13:32	sbalneav 14084 13973 0 13:30 pts/0 00:00:00 grep totem
13:32	sbalneav@feniks:~$
13:32	<Gadi> nice
13:33	<sbalneav> I have to (to qualify for motu) package 1 new package.
13:33	turning HQtube into a globally installable package seems like a winner to me.
13:34	it's one file, just a greasemonkey script.
13:34	<alkisg> ...and maintaining - I think it was broken some days or weeks ago
13:34	<sbalneav> yeah, there's a patch on the userscripts site
13:34	I posted it.
13:34	<alkisg> (maybe the youtube page layout was changed or something...)
13:34	Ah, nice
13:34	<sbalneav> It's small. It hasn't been touched for a while, but it doesn't look hard to maintain.
13:35	<alkisg> It would be also nicer if it supported rendering the video in the html 5 video element :D
13:35	<vagrantc> if page layouts can break it, that doesn't sound like something that'll really be releaseable with a distro...
13:35	<alkisg> (I suppose that would require less resources..)
13:35	<sbalneav> someone chaging the ssh prompts can break ltsp
13:35	so, I don't think that's a concern :)
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13:36	<sbalneav> it could certainly be in my ppa
13:37	It's a solution that would help SOME people, for sure.
13:37	<vagrantc> but the frequency of ssh changing is less likely than some arbitrary website changing
13:37	sure
13:37	<sbalneav> well, true.
13:38	but right now, for people going "youtube videos are killing my server!!!!111one", and they DONT have powerful enough thin clients for localapps
13:38	<vagrantc> but definitely sounds useful!
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13:38	<sbalneav> they're kinda screwed.
13:39	ok
13:39	I'll do it.
13:39	if for no other reason than to improve my packaging skilzzors.
13:40	<Gadi> go sbalneav, go!
13:40	oh, and go Yankees!
13:40	:P
13:40	(see, we brought the Bombers some good karma yesterday)
13:41	<fotanus> sbalneav: the overhead from youtube and flash players is the thinclients or from network?
13:41	i was thinking about this not so long ago
13:41	<alkisg2> sbalneav: right, if you upload it to your ppa and we put it to our sources, you could prompty send us updates if/whenever it breaks...
13:42	<sbalneav> just got off the phone with mcquillan. Cable guy's there now looking at the internet connection. expect ltsp.org back online soon.
13:43	fotanus: it's from the cpu on the server
13:43	<alkisg2> fotanus: flash causes cpu and network overhead by not using simple video playback code and by not using any acceleration like xv...
13:43	<sbalneav> youtube is a very... ineffecient application.
13:43	4 people watching flash videos basically saturate an ltsp server.
13:44	<fotanus> sbalneav: really? i mean, our server is not that bad, and flash just sucks even if only one person is watching
13:44	<sbalneav> I've got servers with 2 dual xenons, and 4 people watching flash put the load average at 1.05
13:44	<johnny> yes.. flash is terrible..
13:45	<sbalneav> which means 100% cpu usage.
13:45	that assumes that NO ONE ELSE is doing ANYTHING.
13:45	god help you if someone on another (or 20 other) thin clients are actually doing work.
13:46	<fotanus> sbalneav: have you ever test alternatives, like gnash?
13:46	is HQtube on dev yet?
13:46	<sbalneav> flash is written from the viewpoint that it's one flash viewer per full fledged desktop, and while you're watching the video, you're not doing ANYTHING else :)
13:47	well, you can download it from userscripts.org
13:47	<tstafford> flash uses a lot of cpu, but if it isn't a cpu problem that's causing it, the ldm_directx=true might help... i don't know if anyone has suggest that yet...
13:47	<sbalneav> I haven't PACKAGED it yet.
13:47	<johnny> tstafford, yes.. it still sucks
13:47	<sbalneav> !flash
13:47	<ltspbot> sbalneav: "flash" is Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
13:47	<johnny> !lts.conf
13:47	<ltspbot> johnny: "lts.conf" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf
13:47	<sbalneav> tstafford: that answer your question? :)
13:48	<tstafford> i figured it had been covered :)
13:48	<Gadi> btw, flash doesnt just plague us, it plagues all terminal services protocols
13:48	<sbalneav> flash is just a plague.
13:48	period.
13:49	<johnny> it plagues even normal uses
13:49	<Gadi> Citrix has some technology to strip the flash embed tags from the page, and render the rest of the page on the server and send the flash part down to the client for local rendering
13:49	<johnny> even just me.. on my own computer..
13:49	that's a neat idea gadi
13:49	<fotanus> Our hope is that youtube and others adopt HTML5 videos
13:49	<Gadi> yeah - they practically wrote their own flash client
13:49	<johnny> well since flash sues xembed with nspluginwrapper, is there anything we can do like that ?
13:49	<Gadi> to do the local processing
13:49	<fotanus> does it works well in ltsp?
13:50	<johnny> it doesn't work in ltsp at all
13:50	Gadi, you'd think with squid we could hack that up
13:50	<fotanus> oh >.<
13:50	<Gadi> I think a lot of ternial services clients for Linux that have "multimedia acceleration" use gtreamer to push stuff down to the client side for processing
13:51	<johnny> hmm.. we could do the same..
13:51	<Gadi> right - with an appropriate gstreamer sink
13:51	but, thats beyond the scope of this course
13:51	:)
13:52	<sbalneav> Tell you what, I'll package hqtube :)
13:53	<alkisg2> tstafford: "flash uses a lot of cpu, but if it isn't a cpu problem that's causing it" ==> it causes 100% cpu on some ad-full sites on my brand new laptop with no ltsp involved. Flash for Linux just sucks...
13:53	<johnny> yep
13:54	tried gnash lately anyone?
13:54	would be nice for a firefox extension to have some sort of flash blacklist and fallback on gnash
13:54	<sbalneav> I haven't. Is it improving?
13:54	<fotanus> sbalneav: yey :)
13:54	i will try it on arch tonight
13:55	when i reach home
13:55	<sbalneav> It was a little too "crashy" the last time I tried it.
13:55	<johnny> yes it is improving
13:55	i have yet to try it
13:55	but i see notices about fixes in the past month or so
13:55	<sbalneav> I had high hopes for it at one time. I still do, but I'm being patient and figuring, "it'll get there, just give it time"
13:56	* alkisg2 thinks youtube will support html 5 video before gnash will support youtube :D
13:57	<johnny> i thought gnash supported youtube well
13:57	as of recently at least
13:57	just not the rest of the flash video world..
13:58	<alkisg2> Really? So it plays ok without hogging the CPU?
13:58	<johnny> i don't know
13:58	it's just what i heard
13:58	i don't really go to youtube that often
13:58	so.. i haven't tried it
13:58	<alkisg2> My neither, but my students go there all the time... :(
13:58	<fotanus> i'm not really sure if the CPU problem is related to flash "nonfree" plugin
13:58	<alkisg2> *Me
13:59	<fotanus> or flash itself
13:59	<johnny> fotanus, the gnash plugin does better .. when it works
13:59	and i know swfdec did
13:59	when it worked as well
13:59	<alkisg2> fotanus: well, the standalone player also needs 100% CPU usage with a single full screen ad
13:59	I've actually tried that, I still have the ad
13:59	<sbalneav> fotanus: quick way to tell
13:59	apt-get purge it, see if the load goes down.
14:00	<alkisg2> (that's again with no LTSP involved, on a core 2 duo 2.1 GHz processor)
14:00	<fotanus> hum..
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14:11	<sbalneav> ooooh
14:11	looks like somethings coming back on line
14:12	ltsp.org's back up
14:12	* CAN-o-SPAM dances
14:13	<sbalneav> There's 3 kinds of death
14:13	Heart death, brain death, and being disconnected from the internet :)
14:16	<CAN-o-SPAM> heh
14:18	<scottmaccal> well all, I'm zorched
14:19	think I'll call it done for now
14:19	have a good night
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14:39	<jammcq> boa tarde meu amigos
14:42	<fotanus> jammcq: boa tarde! :)
14:43	<Gadi> does that make a boa constrictor just very good at his job?
14:43	<jammcq> hey fotanus
14:43	Gadi: you need to go to Brazil with us next year to find out
14:44	<Gadi> is that a threat?
14:44	:)
14:44	ok, but Im sitting behind you on the canoe
14:44	<jammcq> :)
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14:46	<vagrantc> well, today i'm trying to switch from virtualbox to kvm for ltsp development.
14:46	<dro> lol
14:47	vagrantc: good luck trying to convert any images from vbox to kvm
14:47	<vagrantc> seems faster, though i think the disk in this new computer is actually slower ...
14:47	dro: no need to convert images. it's good to do a clean reinstall.
14:47	er, i needed to do a clean install test anyways.
14:48	<alkisg> vagrantc: any quick pros/cons?
14:49	<vagrantc> alkisg: the commandline interface is a double-edged sword for me ... i prefer commandline in general, but kvm/qemu's network configuration from the commandline is obnoxious.
14:50	* alkisg likes the vbox plug-n-play networking with packet injection instead of bridging...
14:50	<vagrantc> alkisg: the server can run in console-only mode, which i never figured out how to do with vbox
14:51	<alkisg> Is "console only" the same as "headless"? If so, it's in the vbox manual...
14:52	<vagrantc> alkisg: kvm's definitely faster, at least for me ... unless virtualbox supports hardware virtualization extensions
14:53	alkisg: not necessarily headless ... but i can run it in a screen session as a curses application :)
14:53	<alkisg> That sounds cool, I could use that over slow net connections..
14:53	<vagrantc> alkisg: and kvm's supported in kernel, without need for outside kernel modules
14:54	pretty much needs hardware support, or you're stuck with qemu, which isn't particularly fast.
14:54	<johnny> pretty sure virtualbox supporst that now
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14:56	<vagrantc> sounds like for debian's next release, it isn't going to have easy to use modules for stuff that's outside the normal kernel tree ... so that pretty much leaves things like virtualbox, squashfs, aufs, etc. annoying as hell on debian unless they get merged into the kernel.
14:59	<johnny> squashfs isn't in kernel yet?
14:59	i thought it got merged at some point
14:59	the aufs/unionfs situation still sucks to
14:59	tho
14:59	<vagrantc> johnny: i've outsourced the task of keeping track of recent developments to you :)
15:00	don't you remember?
15:00	<johnny> lol
15:01	i should look into current union mount situation
15:01	<vagrantc> unions? i thought one of the benefits of outsourcing was to avoid pesky things like unions!
15:03	<johnny> lol
15:03	ah.. neat
15:03	lol
15:03	ugh..
15:04	looks like union mount patches have appeared as recently as 10 days ago
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15:08	<vagrantc> well howzabout that.
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15:09	<sbalneav> http://picasaweb.google.com/sbalneaves/LTSP#
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15:09	<johnny> that's still not mainline tho
15:10	<vagrantc> johnny: the real question is how likely are they to make it in... which i guess you can only really answer with hindsight.
15:11	<johnny> i just wish kernelnewbies kernel changelog was updated more frequently :(
15:11	that's what i usually use
15:11	i recommend it at least post kernel release, to see what new was added
15:13	<chrisinajar> sbalneav: hahaha, i like the circuit breaker!
15:13	Pig?
15:14	<sbalneav> I wanted to flip it on, see if anything squealed.
15:15	Chuck's got, like, Abu Grahib for Pork in his basement.
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15:16	<alkisg> Woah that's a lot of pampam there...
15:17	<CAN-o-SPAM> sbalneav: peter lugers eh? now your in real big trouble!
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15:20	<sbalneav> pampam?
15:20	<cliebow> i do?
15:20	<chrisinajar> sbalneav: the first thing that came to mind was a Beyond Thunderdome style methane power system, and that switch turns it on and off...
15:20	<cliebow> ohhh...you mean the pig?
15:21	<chrisinajar> mayhaps..
15:21	I love that it has a question mark..
15:21	* chrisinajar really likes writing stress test scripts, they're fun :)
15:22	<sbalneav> Yeah question marks on your breaker panel are kinda a bad thing.
15:22	<cliebow> i have a circuit breaker the electician labelled pig? we are still trying to find it
15:22	<chrisinajar> especially when preceded by a barnyard animal
15:22	* vagrantc is having trouble with thin clients mounting /
15:22	<sbalneav> cliebow: http://picasaweb.google.com/sbalneaves/LTSP#
15:22	<vagrantc> that'll teach me to re-install from scratch.
15:22	<squarepeg> ooooh!!
15:22	<sbalneav> "Furnace?"
15:23	<chrisinajar> "The Sun?"
15:23	<alkisg> pam-proxy, pam-relay, pam/auth/stack etc, sounds good... :)
15:23	<CAN-o-SPAM> Whats with all the bugs?
15:23	<chrisinajar> don't turn it off
15:24	<squarepeg> Cool!!!
15:26	gottsta go..Later!!
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15:37	<stgraber> hey sbalneav
15:37	<sbalneav> Heeeeellllooooo stgraber!
15:37	<stgraber> sbalneav: how are you ?
15:38	<sbalneav> Recovered!
15:38	mostly
15:38	<stgraber> hehe
15:39	I was wondering, do you have the code for that WM you wrote a while back ?
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15:39	<sbalneav> Do I!
15:39	yes
15:39	at home. It's based on 9wm
15:39	<vagrantc> sbalneav: what's it called?
15:40	<sbalneav> Well, it was originally based on EvilWM
15:40	So I called it WickedWM, or wwm
15:40	since wickedness is just refined evil :)
15:40	<vagrantc> nice
15:41	<sbalneav> stgraber: want me to mail it to you?
15:41	<CAN-o-SPAM> sbalneav: whats it do?
15:42	<vagrantc> it probably has easy keybindings for devouring children and slaughtering kittens
15:42	<sbalneav> Yeah, you could control the whole thing without the mouse.
15:42	<CAN-o-SPAM> brain waves?
15:43	<sbalneav> CAN-o-SPAM: very simplistic window manager
15:43	put a one pixel boarder around windows.
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15:43	<CAN-o-SPAM> are you using it, or is it just stale project?
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15:43	<sbalneav> It had virtual desktops, passthrough keystroke mechanism for the grabbed keys, etc.
15:43	Every once in a while, when I get p*ssed off at Gnome, I fire it up again :)
15:44	<stgraber> sbalneav: would be great yeah
15:44	Selveste1_ has quit IRC
15:44	<sbalneav> It even handles Gravity correctly. Err, mostly correctly.
15:44	Selveste1_ has joined #ltsp
15:45	<sbalneav> I wouldn't say it's my proudest acheivement, but it's close.
15:45	I learned low level X tinkering with it.
15:46	<stgraber> sbalneav: hehe, looking at other X11 softwares due to lack of libX11 documentation ? ;)
15:46	<sbalneav> 'Course, no one programs in raw Xlib anymore, so there's yet another useless skill I posess. :)
15:46	Although, it DID serve us well for xatomwait :)
15:46	So it's not a total loss.
15:46	<stgraber> bah, I've been doing a few tools directly with Xlib, there isn't that many other way to get the title of the window having the focus
15:47	and looking at X atom isn't really a feature a lot of high level libraries give you ;)
15:47	<kusznir_> Ok, so I'm trying (still) to get my ldm to connect to a CentOS box (which does not have ltsp packages available). I recall something about needing ltsinfod or something like that...
15:48	I thought I put it on this box, but can't find it, but I also can't find it on the actual ubuntu ltsp server...Any suggestions?
15:48	err..
15:48	<sbalneav> should be in /usr/sbin, i beleive.
15:48	<kusznir_> Could you refresh my memory as to the correct spelling so locate might help me find it?
15:48	<sbalneav> check inetd.conf on the ubuntu box.
15:49	<kusznir_> Nope, not present in /usr/sbin or /etc/inetd.conf on the ubuntu ltsp server.
15:49	nor is anything starting with "lts" present in /usr/sbin on my dev box.
15:49	I know I installed (copied) it to one of my dev boxes.
15:50	<brendan0powers_> sbalneav: I found an apple openldap schema that apple distributes with its ldap sources
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15:52	<kusznir_> Hmm...according to http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspInfod, it appears that it doesn't do what I thought it did anyway.
15:52	<brendan0powers_> sbalneav: however, it does not have the copywrite header the other schema files have, so I'm not sure what license it uses
15:52	<kusznir_> My "core" problem is that I'm trying to get ldm to allow me to connect to a non-ltsp server.
15:52	I've configured LDM_SERVER in lts.conf to include the said server, and I've included the ssh key for said server.
15:53	What I'm currently running into is that it appears its going to log me in, but then ldm just restarts...no explination given.
15:53	I was told in here previously that I needed ltspinfod (or something like that) to allow ldm to querry the server about x sessions and such, and help it start. I could have swarn that I copied that over, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore.
15:54	ahh..I was thinking of ldminfod...not ltspinfod :)
15:54	alkisg has quit IRC
15:54	<kusznir_> So I have ldminfod installed on my test box, but it still doesn't change anything about it connecting...
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15:57	<sbalneav> kusznir_: what does the log file on the thin client say?
15:58	you'll need to add SCREEN_02=shell to see it
15:58	/var/log/ldm.log
16:02	<kusznir_> sbalneav: http://www.pastebin.ca/1649739
16:02	As best as I can tell, everything is going fine until "X session ended"...
16:05	<vagrantc> kusznir_: most likely, the location of the Xsession script on CentOS is different.
16:05	<sbalneav> yeah.
16:05	<vagrantc> kusznir_: just to test, you could set LDM_XSESSION=/path/to/centos/Xsession in lts.conf
16:05	<kusznir_> Where is it expected?
16:05	<vagrantc> but you should get ldminfod working properly.
16:05	locate Xsession
16:06	kusznir_: that's a command i suggest to try: ^^
16:06	<kusznir_> Ok...On centos, there's two Xsession scripts reported by locate: /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession and /etc/gdm/Xsession.
16:06	<vagrantc> kusznir_: use the xinit on
16:06	one
16:06	so, LDM_XSESSION=/etc/X11/xinit/Xsession
16:06	<kusznir_> ldminfod also has: xsession:/etc/X11/xinit/Xsession
16:07	<vagrantc> then it should be working.
16:07	kusznir_: you've got the inetd hooks for ldminfod?
16:08	kusznir_: telnet 127.0.0.1 9571
16:08	kusznir_: does that give you the same output as running ldminfod on the server?
16:11	<kusznir_> vagrantc: so specifying the xsession did the trick
16:11	No, I haven't added any ldminfod hooks; didn't know I needed any.
16:12	<vagrantc> kusznir_: hard-coding LDM_XSESSION will break if you need to log into other servers, so it would be good to get ldminfod to work by configuring it in inetd.
16:15	<kusznir_> Ok, inetd info...socket_type=stream? wait=no?
16:20	Hmm..centos runs xinetd, and I'm having a heck of a time getting it to start an ldm service...
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16:23	<johnny> there's an example config i think
16:23	i can't seem to remember where it is tho
16:26	<kusznir_> Ok, finally got it working.
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16:31	<kusznir_> And that fixed the thin client connect issues, too.
16:37	Next issue..getting thin clients to do NX...aparently our app actually works better on NX than it does with LDM, and uses way less bandwidth than directx (our app with directx needs 30MB/s, which won't scale for us)
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16:41	<Brian_H> what are people using for file server shares... I've explored the possiblity of nfsv4+acls, however they are only supported on ext3 volumes and that poses a problem
16:42	<nubae> hmmm..... u can always go Samba
16:42	works quite well
16:42	<Brian_H> thats what I am currently using, was hoping to be a true linux shop :)
16:42	<nubae> well samba is truly linux
16:43	u'd mean linux only
16:43	<Brian_H> true :)
16:44	it'd be nice to not use a windows protocol though
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16:46	<arx> does anyone know if scanners can be used on the ltsp clients? I have local devices working (at least in respect to usb flash drives), but when I hook up a scanner it doesn't show up under scanimage -L. This is an epson scanner that I know works with Linux as I have this working on an old LTSP 4.2 setup. Any ideas
16:46	???
16:46	<nubae> smb is actually one of the better things windows has done
16:46	<kusznir_> I know its supposed to work, but I haven't done it since 4.2 myself.
16:47	<nubae> !ltsp4.2
16:47	<ltspbot> nubae: Error: "ltsp4.2" is not a valid command.
16:47	<vagrantc> arx: scanner support was very recently added.
16:47	<nubae> !ltsp 4.2
16:47	<ltspbot> nubae: Error: "ltsp" is not a valid command.
16:47	<nubae> hmmm
16:47	anwyay, it should say UNSUPPORTED! :-⁾
16:47	<arx> vagrantc: any documentation on how to get it working? I'm using Ubuntu 9.10.
16:47	<nubae> hi vagrantc
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16:48	<vagrantc> arx: there was a recent thread on the ltsp-discuss mailing list about adding it for debian- should be the same.
16:48	nubae: hi there
16:48	<nubae> whatcha working on these days?
16:48	u've been vewy quiet...
16:48	;-)
16:49	<arx> vagrantc: k. thx. I'll check there. hopefully I can get this working, otherwise this could be a deal breaker for my LTSP setup :\|.
16:49	<vagrantc> nubae: next big thing is to switch freegeek over to fatclients ... though that shouldn't be too hard with current LDM.
16:50	<nubae> well, I'm on the hunt for a new job
16:51	its not that I hated it there
16:51	but... just not enough action
16:51	<vagrantc> nubae: heh.
16:51	<nubae> in the end it was documentationa and prototyping
16:52	and nothing was actually evolved
16:52	I can undersand, they are scared with so many systems up and running
16:52	but still
16:53	but I did get into telepathy there in a big way, since they wanted to use that as a real simple way of doing authentication and placing groups
16:54	which got me to thinking about how it could work with LTSP
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16:54	<nubae> and it totally can... I mean use XMPP as communications method
16:54	loadbalanced with a jabber server
16:55	has lotsa potential
16:56	<kusznir_> Ok, I found a website about freenx on ltsp.org, but it appears to be quite dated, and is missing anything about how to set up NX sessions on thin clients...
16:56	<nubae> the idea came to me when we were talking about maybe using telepathy for some of the remote control stuff, like remote powerdown clients, mass message, mass hibernate, etc
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16:57	<johnny> i never wanted remote power down clients btw nubae
16:57	<nubae> why not?
16:57	<johnny> what i wanted.. was to have the shutdown button working
16:57	<nubae> ok...
16:58	anyway, thats the reverse the
16:58	<johnny> so the remote session shutdown button would turn off the client computer
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16:58	<nubae> yeah so we would make a call to remote dbus of client computer and shutdown -r now
16:59	or whatever dbus command exists
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17:00	<nubae> ok pretty easy johnny : 'org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement'
17:01	thats the dbus object
17:02	<johnny> yes... but the one the remote client sees is the server one
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17:02	<nubae> i realise that
17:02	<johnny> that's what iw as tryin to get across to the other day :)
17:02	<nubae> which is why we launch telepathy
17:02	<johnny> how to make the remote session see some of the ones from the client
17:04	<nubae> hmmm, what kinda dependencies does hal have thoguh
17:04	that seems like the bugger on the client end
17:05	cause telepathy can handle identifying the right clients and all that
17:07	<johnny> luckily hal is on the way out..
17:07	we alreayd have hal in the client anyways btw
17:07	for X
17:07	nubae, btw it's now org.freedesktop.DeviceKit.Power now..
17:08	not hal
17:08	in all the new distros
17:08	it's all handled by udev and devicekit now
17:09	<nubae> oh ok
17:09	gotta upgrae
17:09	well then here's the theoretical program...
17:09	makes a call to mission control firing up over exisiting connection for security
17:10	launches devicekit.power or whatever
17:11	we create a dbus pipe from the server to the client requesting shutdown
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17:11	<nubae> we make the required dbus call, and disconnect from mission control
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17:12	<nubae> and using that framwework we can do the same for other things too
17:12	<johnny> nubae, except i want it to be hoooked in at the dbus level
17:12	a proxy on top of dbus
17:12	<nubae> like lower/increase volume
17:12	<johnny> a router really
17:12	<nubae> but it will be
17:12	hooked in at dbus level
17:12	<johnny> so you can specify which paths get routed where
17:12	<nubae> that is what telepathy is
17:12	its all dbus
17:13	<johnny> no.. i mean.. i want a deamon that kinda replaces
17:13	dbus
17:13	so it can route
17:13	unless somebody allows the functionality directly IN dbus
17:14	<nubae> i dont get it
17:14	<fasthans> I installed gimp as a local app and added the network printer using cups
17:14	but when the client wants to print, it takes 15 seconds until the printer shows up in the print dialog - each time.
17:14	<nubae> whats wrong with dbus?
17:15	telepathy is what does dbus routing, well, actually the d-tube part of it
17:15	<johnny> you need something that tells it where to route
17:15	not just to do the routing
17:15	<nubae> I'm still not getting u
17:15	<johnny> something that sits in front of dbus and intercepts all calls
17:16	<nubae> for what purpose?
17:16	<johnny> to tell it where to route the calls
17:16	either locally or remotely
17:16	if remotely.. use dtubes
17:16	<nubae> if locally also use dtubes
17:16	whats the difference?
17:16	<johnny> no need
17:16	it'll just slow it down
17:16	<nubae> nah, hardly
17:17	well u can do the code twice or do it once
17:17	I'm lazy
17:17	<johnny> do it once...
17:17	pass through
17:17	<nubae> the thing that listens is telepahty
17:18	<johnny> i have a feeling you don't understand the stack
17:18	<nubae> its presence service listens
17:18	well, we'd need to link powerdown to a user of course
17:19	what don't I understand?
17:19	<johnny> let's just say the normal way is this
17:19	Press button -> lets dbus know -> trigger the shutdown
17:19	<nubae> yeah
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17:20	<nubae> and in our way we let telepathy's presence service via bot or whatever do that
17:20	whats wrong with that?
17:20	<johnny> Press button -> lets dbus know (or dbus proxy know-> route it to the client -> shutdown
17:20	<nubae> oh u want actual button pressing
17:20	<johnny> you need something that will map it to the right place
17:20	<kusznir_> Yea, that would be nice :)
17:21	<johnny> nubae, if hte user presses shutdown
17:21	it should shut down the thin client
17:21	<nubae> mapping what, I dont understand
17:21	<johnny> org.freedeskt.blahblahblah.shutdown -> ip:org.freedesktop.bblahbalha.shutdown
17:22	<nubae> either I'm just not seeing the complexity or I'm missing something
17:22	yes.... once again, taht is a telepathy d-tube
17:22	<johnny> yes.. but you're missing where it fits in the stack
17:22	that's what you're not understanding
17:23	<nubae> well at first I thought u wanted it to switch off via deamon
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17:23	<nubae> which is why I went the bot xmpp bot way
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17:23	<nubae> but this would be simpler then
17:23	<johnny> no.. i tried to explain that difference to you at least 5 times :)
17:24	what we're lacking is the dbus proxy
17:24	that will route it to the client
17:24	<nubae> no we're note, why are we lacking it?
17:24	<johnny> if it's not represented in the proxy, we just pass through to the host system dbus
17:25	<nubae> ok, explain to me exactly which dbys proxy is missing/lacking or whatever, I'm not getting it, telepathy-python is quite complete, and if not we just write one
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17:26	<johnny> the thing that routes the dbus calls
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17:26	<johnny> to the whatever target
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17:40	<jbicha> are there instructions for getting LTSP going in Ubuntu with only 1 ethernet card?
17:49	<johnny> you don't need them
17:49	no instructions needed that is
17:49	i have one ethernet card and i used no specific ltsp one card instructions
17:49	jbicha, just make sure you read
17:49	!docs
17:49	<ltspbot> johnny: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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18:11	<kusznir_> what's the name of the binary that's used to manage alternatives? (such as login theme )?
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18:14	<kusznir_> found it: update-alternatives
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18:21	<jbicha> johnny: well, it doesn't seem to be automatic for me, I can't find documentation that talks about this specifically
18:23	on a closer reading, it looks like the dhcpd.conf file I think I need is in /etc/ltsp
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18:26	<jbicha> ah, there we go, I just had to change the 192.168.0 to 192.168.1
18:27	ooh, that's exotic, my screen is upside down
18:29	<Ahmuck> lol, i've heard about this issue
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18:34	<sbalneav> nubae: I see you're talking about dbus again.
18:35	So let me ask you a question.
18:36	Normally, on a machine, you have the System bus, and the session bus.
18:36	System bus communicates systems events, Session bus is for the gnome\|kde bus to talk on.
18:37	We need an LTSP session on a server to NOT look at the server's system bus (which is where the processes are running)
18:37	but to look at the THIN CLIENT's system bus, which is on the other end of an ssh pipe.
18:37	<johnny> sbalneav, that's the proxy idea i brought up..
18:37	<sbalneav> How would you go about that?
18:38	<johnny> perhaps i just kept doing a terrible job at explaining it..
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18:56	<sbalneav> Back on in a bit, gotta take the kid to a concert.
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19:04	<jbicha> hmm, this is funny but I'm not finding a solution either, the screen layout is rather odd, buttons still have to be clicked as though they were displayed right side up,
19:05	the titlebar is hanging out on the left side of the program
19:05	*right side, see I'm getting all confused
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19:17	<jbicha> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/441586 turning off compiz on the client is a workaround, I don't think my server can work graphically without the proprietary drivers
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19:46	<jammcq> hey all
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20:07	<squarepeg> scottie got some nice pics
20:07	<jammcq> yeah
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23:56	<cyberorg> i've got some google wave invites, speak up if you want one before they disappear :)