IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 May 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:36 | <lunz> hi, I'm a non-network person trying my hand at reviving old computers with a standard/vanilla single card ltsp server setup. I can't set a static interface for my ltsp server, so I left /etc/network/interfaces at default (I assume it's being dynamically allocated); also, terminals connect to the server but keep timing out (pxe-e32 error). Is this a systemd problem, btw?
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| 06:36 | i'm using xubuntu 16.04 server
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> lunz: try this:
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| 06:37 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 06:37 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> It's using dnsmasq, single card, external dhcp etc
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| 06:37 | Also, better use mate-desktop-i386.iso instead
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| 06:37 | !ubuntu-mate
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| 06:37 | <ltsp`> ubuntu-mate: Ubuntu-mate works very well with LTSP, even with older clients. Download the 64-bit version if *all* your clients have >= 2GB RAM, otherwise download the 32-bit version. http://ubuntu-mate.org/download/
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| 06:42 | <lunz> i saw ltsp-pnp online, but I'd still like to troubleshoot why standard ltsp isn't working according to online instructions, most of which are old too.
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| 06:43 | <alkisg> Yup, that's the result of a method not being too well supported :)
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| 06:43 | You probably have 2 dhcp servers running now?
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| 06:43 | One in your router and one in your dhcp server?
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| 06:44 | ltsp-pnp is pretty much the standard nowadays, not many people use the old method...
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| 06:45 | <lunz> alkisg: what do i use to find any clashing dhcp server ips?
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| 06:46 | <alkisg> dpkg -l isc-dhcp-server
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| 06:46 | this tells you if you have a dhcp server in your ltsp server
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| 06:46 | do you?
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| 06:49 | <lunz> alkisg: yes, isc-dhcp-server is used; and when I ran route or netstat -an, i saw a router name show up but couldnt determine the IP (gateway is set at the standard x.x.x.1 anyhow)
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| 06:49 | <alkisg> lunz: ip a ==> shows you the ethernet name, e.g. eth0
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| 06:50 | sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0 ==> tells your ethernet card to ask for a dhcp lease from an external dhcp server
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| 06:50 | If it gets one, then you have 2 dhcp servers, which is an issue
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| 06:50 | <lunz> the primary interface shows up as enp0s25
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| 06:50 | <alkisg> Primary? Didn' you say you have only one?
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| 06:51 | "single card ltsp setup"...
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| 06:52 | <lunz> alkisg: well, only one shows up .... habit of speech (from online guides), i guess
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| 06:53 | a lot has changed, i realise
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> lunz: do you have and are you planning to use 2 ethernet cards, or just 1?
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| 06:56 | <lunz> alkisg: i saw this single card instruction (lower down) about adding dns-search and dns-nameservers: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/StaticIP
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| 06:57 | <alkisg> Please answer my question
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| 06:58 | Both setups are doable (1 or 2 nics), I haven't yet understood which one are you trying to do
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| 06:58 | I don't care about online wiki pages, they're mostly broken
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| 06:58 | <lunz> alkisg: I dont plan on adding another card; the Internet plugged into the switch works fine when I dont put static interface entries for the server
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| 06:58 | <alkisg> So now you have one card only, correct?
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| 06:58 | <lunz> yes
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| 06:59 | <alkisg> OK, let's go on with the ipconfig command
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| 06:59 | sudo /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n enp0s25
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| 06:59 | This will do a fake dhcp request and tell you which dhcp server answers
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| 06:59 | Which will probably be your router
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| 07:00 | <lunz> alkisg: I should inform you that the ltsp network is at another location; I wont be there for a few hours ... just doing overnight research
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| 07:00 | you mean "ifconfig -n"?
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> No
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| 07:01 | So, do you have a router there?
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| 07:01 | That also works as a dhcp server?
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| 07:01 | And that gives a dynamic ip to your ltsp server?
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| 07:01 | <lunz> alkisg: I have a wireless router plugged into the switch
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| 07:01 | <alkisg> Right. So, you can't use the classic ltsp setup
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| 07:02 | Go for ltsp-pnp, even if you can't understand why now, it'll just work out of the box for you.
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| 07:02 | <lunz> alkisg: I'm not sure where if the source of the ip is the router or the server
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| 07:02 | <alkisg> The router gives IP addresses to the clients
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| 07:02 | That's why ltsp-pnp was invented, to help out people using a single nic and a router
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| 07:03 | So that they don't have to learn all the networking stuff
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| 07:03 | <lunz> alkisg: wow, lol ..... and i got the impression standard ltsp worked out-of-the-box, judging from all the online instructions
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| 07:03 | <alkisg> Not really, it always needed manual network configuration
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| 07:03 | And it was always easier in the 2 nic setups
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| 07:04 | While ltsp-pnp works out of the box in both cases, single and dual nic setups
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| 07:04 | <lunz> alkisg: yes, i noticed most were 2 card setups
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| 07:04 | <alkisg> And that usually means people needed to rewire their computer labs
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| 07:04 | I.e. more network knowledge
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| 07:05 | I had to support 1000+ schools here, I couldn't give them the necessary knowledge, so i invented ltsp-pnp instead :)
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| 07:06 | Since then, most ltsp setups use that method instead of the older one
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| 07:06 | <lunz> alkisg: oh, you're the ltsp-pnp creator? Does it have a strong support community?
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> Well, you're having support now, don't you?
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| 07:07 | While you didn't have for the older setup :)
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| 07:07 | <lunz> alkisg: I'm asking because I noticed projects like k12ltsp and edubuntu have fallen by the wayside or are in stasis
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> There are 3 developers still working in ltsp
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| 07:07 | None is working in k12ltsp or edubuntu
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| 07:07 | Thousands of sites are still using ltsp
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| 07:08 | So it's not going to die soon
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| 07:08 | Of course as open source goes, if developers stop getting paid about a project, it dies
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| 07:08 | <lunz> alkisg: yes, I'm impressed with ltsp, but I tried to go the standalone route, since the alternative ISO is so outdated
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> So usually they're being paid by a company that uses it or for support etc
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| 07:09 | There's no alternative iso
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| 07:09 | The classic ltsp setup wiki pages are too outdated
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| 07:09 | They should be deleted, imho, but noone is caring for them enough to even delete them
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| 07:09 | <lunz> alkisg: there's a 12.04 alternate still maintained
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| 07:10 | alkisg: oh, i see
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> The desktop setups of 12.04 are no longer supported
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| 07:10 | Only the server setups are
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| 07:10 | Anyway, to sum up, try the 2 links I gave you first, and if you see something you don't like *then* look for alternatives
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| 07:12 | <lunz> alkisg: I'll experiment with them; a bit disappointed standard ltsp has so many issues though ... i'd think dhcp and tftp stuff would've been more-or-less straightforward
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> lunz: I think you misunderstood the concept of "standard ltsp"
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| 07:13 | ltsp-pnp is "standard" now
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| 07:14 | The classic setup is still available for those that have specific network needs, need isolated computer labs for ltsp clients with 2 nic setups etc, but it's not where developers focus anymore
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| 07:14 | <lunz> alkisg: perhaps, I guess I meant ltsp using vanilla dhcp, tftp, etc, rather than dnsmasq, proxydhcp, etc
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> E.g. you say that "edhcp should be standard", but you haven't understood that you can't have 2 dhcp servers
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| 07:15 | So while it IS standard, it requires knowledge that many people lack, as a protocol, not as software
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| 07:16 | <lunz> alkisg: i understand the clashing dhcp part; it's just that I'm surprised a patch or update hasnt taken care of that problem already
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| 07:17 | not that I'm an expert or anything .... but dhcp, ftp are so basic to the fibre of networking
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| 07:18 | <alkisg> lunz, you're still not understanding this. It's not a matter of updates, what you're asking is not possible without creating a new dhcp protocol and throwing out all the computers that already exist
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| 07:20 | <lunz> alkisg: i guess one of the contending dhcp servers cant be suppressed then
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> The usual solutions there (single nic ltsp server on a network with a router), are:
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| 07:22 | 1) stop the router from being a dhcp server and only leave the ltsp server
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| 07:22 | 2) if the router is very expensive and configurable (e.g. cisco), put boot filename etc there, and stop the ltsp server, or
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| 07:22 | 3) make the ltsp server a proxydhcp server, not a real dhcp server
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| 07:23 | In all 3 cases, you don't have 2 clashing dhcp servers
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| 07:23 | ltsp-pnp is using (3), as it doesn't require anything from the person setting up ltsp, it just works
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| 07:25 | <lunz> alkisg: so proxydhcp *is* the workaround to the clash; fair enough, since the switch used is 2nd-hand and unmanaged
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| 07:25 | the router is borrowed too
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> (3) is not supported by isc-dhcp-server, only by dnsmasq, because we asked him to do that for ltsp-pnp
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| 07:25 | It's not a workaround, it's part of the pxe protocol
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| 07:26 | We can't invent a new protocol, because pxe clients have it hardcoded in their ROM, we'd have to throw them away if we invented a new protocol
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| 07:28 | <lunz> ok, not "workaround", "alternative" .... what is most important for me is your "out-of-the-box" claim :D
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> Hence the -pnp part, out of the box :)
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| 07:29 | !ltsp-pnp
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| 07:29 | <ltsp`> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 07:29 | <lunz> alkisg: simply purge ltsp-server-standalone and install ltsp-pnp?
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| 07:29 | <alkisg> and it also mentions "alternative" there :)
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| 07:29 | No, completely reinstall the server using the desktop iso of mate
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| 07:29 | It will be easier for you and forus supporting you
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| 07:30 | <lunz> alkisg: i would prefer sticking with xubuntu; i dont like the idea of having to switch platform too
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| 07:30 | alkisg: is pnp only tested on mate?
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> OK, but keep in mind that no ltsp developer is using or testing it
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| 07:31 | LTSP is only tested on gnome-flashback and mate
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| 07:31 | <lunz> wow
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> Ah and lxde
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| 07:31 | Many people use it fine on unity, and I think some on xubuntu and kde, but with some issues
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| 07:32 | Anyway, how many clients are you planning to use and what are their specs, cpu/ram?
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| 07:33 | The problem with ltsp is that it allows new software to run on ancient computers. It's a problem because e.g. normally you can't run unity on a 128mb client, so its developers have never tested that.
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| 07:33 | And they don't care about 3d or compositing over the network etc etc
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| 07:34 | So we have to send bug fixes to the desktop environments (not to ltsp), and we can only do that for a few desktop environments
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| 07:34 | <lunz> alkisg: very low-end .... right now there is about 4-5 (hopefully expanded to 10, then 20-30) 1.5GB RAM terminals and a 4GB RAM/3GHz server
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> I.e. the problem usually isn't ltsp, but the desktop environments themselves
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| 07:34 | 1.5 gb isn't low end
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| 07:34 | They're good enough to be ran as ltsp fat clients (diskless)
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| 07:34 | ltsp-pnp will automatically do that for you too
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| 07:35 | <lunz> alkisg: well, not for ltsp, but as computers, hell yeah, lol
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> Did you install your ltsp server using the server iso?
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| 07:35 | <lunz> alkisg: yes, I do an iso install, then download ltsp
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> So it doesn't have a desktop environment?
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| 07:36 | <lunz> alkisg: i install a desktop env to act as a server
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> OK, do you see that this doesn't make sense?
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| 07:36 | <lunz> alkisg: it's for a kids homework centre
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> Why start with ubuntu-server if you want xubuntu?
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| 07:36 | <lunz> alkisg: how so?
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> Start with xubuntu iso
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| 07:37 | <lunz> alkisg: it's a xubuntu desktop install acting as a server
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> OK, that's a lot better :)
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| 07:38 | OK then install dnsmasq, uninstall isc-dhcp-server and tftpd-hpa, and continue with the ltsp-pnp steps
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| 07:39 | Also run: sudo rm -rf /opt/ltsp before continuing
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| 07:39 | Don't forget that one
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| 07:39 | <lunz> alkisg: so no reinstalls? just purge and replace?
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| 07:39 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 07:39 | <lunz> just checking ....
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| 07:39 | yay!!!
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> If you put anything to /etc/network/interfaces, remove it and use network-manager
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| 07:41 | <lunz> alkisg: ok, I'll do that later today or monday and let you know how it went .... you're here regularly?
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| 07:41 | so no interface entries, you're saying?
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> I'm saying to ignore everything you've read in those other wiki pages :)
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| 07:42 | ltsp-pnp tries to be similar to the desktop experience, e.g. network manager instead of /etc/network/interfaces
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| 07:43 | <lunz> alkisg: yeah, i'll have to recondition my mind
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| 07:43 | I'm taking notes then will check out pnp docs
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> See, so far it has taken me 1 hour just to undo the damage that those wiki pages did to you, i.e. give you the wrong tips for setting up ltsp
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| 07:46 | I'm pretty much ready to start telling people that I don't support the classic ltsp setup, period, without wasting time to explain why...
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| 07:47 | <lunz> alkisg: well, i'm experimenting, so your's had better work! lol ... i've had prolonged hours and days of headache as it is already
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> It's open source, there are no guarantees unless you get a support contract or something :)
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| 07:48 | <lunz> lmao
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| 07:48 | alkisg: I hear you
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| 07:50 | alkisg: anyhow, thanks for the option
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| 07:51 | <alkisg> You're welcome
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| 08:06 | <highvoltage> you're in good hands with alkis though :)
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| 16:41 | <Darkend> Hi. I have a little problem with my thin clients. There are users who do not work the libreoffice 5. They can not open documents. Please help.
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| 16:53 | <Darkend> hola. tengo un pequeño problema con mis clientes ligeros. Hay usuarios en los que no me trabaja el libreoffice 5. Ellos no pueden abrir documentos. Ayuda por favor.
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| 17:25 | <rprenhol> Darkend, hola. Prefiro espanol jejeje
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| 17:26 | que te ha pasado con estos usuarios?
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| 17:26 | hay alguna semejanza entre ellos?
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| 17:27 | | |
| 17:27 | <Darkend> mira he creado un usuario y he copiado su estructura en /etc/skel. luego creé el resto de usuarios y más tarde creé la imagen del sistema.
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| 17:30 | A ver si me explico. tengo un laboratorio con 14 pc´s para cada grupo de estudiantes tengo un usuario creado. Eso quiere decir que habrán, al menos, 14 personas logeadas con el mismo username. De esa manera se supone que tendrán que trabajar con el mismo documento copiado y pegado en la carpeta del usuario. Pero el problema es que algunos si pueden abrir docuemntos mientras que otros no.
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| 17:30 | ¿qué puede hacer? necesito darle solución a esto antes del martes.
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| 17:35 | <rprenhol> | |
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| 17:40 | <Darkend> mira utilize la opcion que me recomendo vagrantc de hacer la imagen como ltsp-pnp. mis equipos tienen 4 GB de RAM por ,o que supongo que levantarán como fat client
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| 17:41 | pudiera utilizar fat client perome ha costado trabajo en el area de la creación de los usuarios.
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| 17:42 | <rprenhol> no conozco eso de ltsp-pnp
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| 17:43 | qual la version del servidor?
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| 17:43 | <Darkend> Bueno te explico. Segun me comento vagrantc. la forma ltsp-pnp hace que los clientes con más de 400 MB de RAM levanten como fat client y si tienen menos como thin client.
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| 17:44 | el server funciona con Debian wheeze a 32 bits.
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| 19:09 | <Darkend> rprenhol: disculpa por irme pero un hijopeputivo cerró la conexión por acá y por eso me perdí en el viaje.
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| 19:13 | <rprenhol> Darkend, jejeje
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| 19:15 | Darkend, lo que debes fijarte es si la sesion de usuario esta o no compartida por un export del servidor
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| 19:15 | | |
| 19:16 | <Darkend> rpenhol: te decia que mis clientes se construyeron bajo la opción ltsp-pnp. Eso, supuestamente, hace que clientes con mas de 400MG de RAm booteen como fat client y con menos ram comothin client.
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| 19:17 | <rprenhol> | |
| 19:17 | creo que la home es exportada
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| 19:18 | <Darkend> la home está en otra partición
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| 19:18 | no sé si se exporta o no. realmente desconozco como comprobarlo.
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| 19:19 | <rprenhol> como es hibrido el contexto si hay o no mas de 400MB de RAM, las computadoras que tuberen mas, o sea, ejecutar como Fat Clients, deberan comungar del mismo ambiente que las Thin Clients
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| 19:19 | | |
| 19:19 | <Darkend> creo, no estoy seguro que se exporta cuando utilizas algo llamada ndb o algo así. soy un newbie es ento del ltsp.
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| 19:20 | <rprenhol> | |
| 19:20 | <Darkend> en realidad me convendría mucho hacerlo como fat client pero una vez lo hice con ubuntu 14.04 pero me dejaba entrar sólo con el usuario que utilicé para crear la imagen.
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| 19:21 | <rprenhol> | |
| 19:24 | <Darkend> pero en sí en que consiste el nbd???
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| 19:25 | <rprenhol> es un tipo de servicio de filesystem sobre red, algo como NFS
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| 19:26 | <Darkend> bueno cero que las mias usan nfs
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| 19:26 | <rprenhol> hay vatages como compresion que ayuda en el arranque del equipo
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| 19:27 | <Darkend> bueno ¿tienes experienciacon los fat client?
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| 19:27 | <rprenhol> esa es una estructuras mas comun para el export de home y otras particiones
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| 19:27 | si
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| 19:27 | | |
| 19:27 | <Darkend> bueno en ese caso tienes algun tuto que podrias facilitarme por correo???
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| 19:29 | <rprenhol> | |
| 19:30 | <Darkend> te dejo mis correos en el privado
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