IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 9 April 2010 (all times are UTC)

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05:13	<elias_a> Hello, folks!
05:14	To which file do I define the MAC-addresses of kiosk mode machines?
05:17	<alkisg> elias_a: what do you mean? You have 2 chroots and you want to serve the kiosk one to some of the clients?
05:18	<elias_a> alkisg: Yep - exactly
05:20	<alkisg> elias_a: you can copy pxelinux.cfg/default to pxelinux.cfg/mac-address, and specify nbdroot=serverip:2001 (the new image port) there
05:20	Erm, you're using pxelinux, right? :)
05:21	<elias_a> alkisg: Yep - standard Ubuntu-LTSP
05:21	<alkisg> OK there's a wiki page for that stuff... /me looks..
05:24	Bah I can't find it... anyway you need to copy pxelinux.cfg/default to pxelinux.cfg/01-00-14-22-a1-53-85
05:24	01- is the standard prefix for type=ethernet, the others are the mac addresss
05:24	...and put nbdroot=192.168.0.1:2001 in the new file...
05:24	<elias_a> I also looked for a wiki. Thought I had seen it somewhere...
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06:05	<jonkke> Hi
06:06	anyone still supports ltsp-4.2? having some problems with rtl 8169 network card
06:06	my futro client just says "could not autodetect network card"
06:08	<Appiah> umm
06:08	does this client pxe boot?
06:08	<jonkke> yes
06:08	LTSP5 boots great
06:08	<Appiah> when does it say could not autodetect network card?
06:08	<jonkke> and ohther nic boot great with 4.2
06:09	after loading kernel
06:09	i think
06:10	dows 4.2 need some options passed through dhcpd?
06:10	"option-129"?
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06:20	<alkisg> Maybe you're missing the kernel module?
06:22	<jonkke> maybe... sorry for stupd question, but how do i check this?
06:23	in /lib/modules?
06:31	<alkisg> I've never seen ltsp 4.2, but I imagine that you can put break=mount and try to load the module with modprobe...
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06:31	<jonkke> okay... now i added to pxelinux.cfg/[MAC-address] file.. "NIC=r8169". now i get on boot "modprobe r8169", but after that comes FATAL error saying /lib/modules/2.6.33ltsp-1/modules.dep: No such file or directory
06:32	root@ltsp42:~/linux-2.6.33.2# find / \|grep modules.dep \| grep 2.6.33
06:32	/lib/modules/2.6.33ltsp-1/modules.dep.bin
06:32	/lib/modules/2.6.33ltsp-1/modules.dep
06:32	/opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.33ltsp-1/modules.dep.bin
06:32	/opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules/2.6.33ltsp-1/modules.dep
06:32	but i think it should be found there
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07:26	<markit> hi, I've a problem not strictly related to LTSP, but probably you know how to help me. I'm going to install ltsp in a school, and I need some suggestions. First problem I have is
07:26	that teachers should be able to enter in the student's home and read/write their files, if needed
07:27	I've tried GSID but with this I've been able to create files with :teacher group, but only as "read" permission
07:27	while I need rw
07:27	any tip? With a samba share would be trivial (you can force creation mask) but what about "pure" GNU/Linux?
07:28	(btw, ubuntu 10.04, ltsp 5.x)
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07:34	<Appiah> teachers account should have access to read/write in the group that students belong to
07:34	dont think you need to do it harder then that
07:41	<jonkke> okay, now i got my futro client booting until it loads entwork driver and try to do dhcpcd... then i get "ERROR! dhcpcd faild!"
07:41	any ideas?
07:43	<markit> sorry, phone, now I read
07:43	Appiah: how can you set "rw in a group"? I'm not expert in this
07:44	I know you can add a user to a group, but not set permission rw to a group, only to files
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07:50	<Appiah> groups can be part of groups
07:50	and set a group where everyone can write (example)
07:50	read up on chmod
07:51	<markit> Appiah: don't understand if I missi something obvious, or you did not got exactly my problem
07:51	s/missi/miss
07:51	with chmod I can set a FILE to be rw for the owner and it's group, or the group I've set with chown
07:51	<Appiah> ok
07:51	nevermind
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07:52	<markit> my problem is
07:52	<Appiah> I must be doing someting wrong
07:52	<markit> ok, no problem :)
07:52	thanks anyway :)
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08:03	<alkisg> markit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setuid#setgid_on_directories
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08:07	<markit> alkisg: did you tried that solution?
08:08	as I stated at the beginning, it sets the correct group, but only with "r" permission
08:08	<alkisg> markit: I've tested it and it worked fine for me
08:08	But I'm not using it in production, as teachers here have root access anyway
08:12	markit: if you need a different umask, you can set that on login.defs (or /etc/profile...)
08:13	<markit> alkisg: does it work for you without a different umask? I'm confused
08:13	alkisg: for instance I have
08:13	drwxrwsr-x 2 marco smb-vm 4096 9 apr 13:54 z_test_grp
08:14	so the directory is of group smb-vm (just one picked from the available)
08:14	and I'm the user "marco"
08:14	if I enter that directory and do a touch pippo
08:14	I have then
08:14	-rw-r--r-- 1 marco smb-vm 0 9 apr 13:55 pippo
08:14	so a different user belonging to smb-vm can NOT write it
08:14	<alkisg> markit: you probably need a different umask if you need to give write access to group members.
08:15	<markit> alkisg: but umask is for EVERY file I create, I need to have just for that directory
08:15	<alkisg> Not for the files inside them?
08:15	<markit> I mean, I should change umask for students and teacher
08:15	<alkisg> You don't want the teachers to be able to write to students files?
08:15	<markit> how could I have that? umask is a "property" of the user, not the directory, or am I wrong?
08:16	alkisg: I want teacher be able to write to stutent's files, otherwise I would already have the solution, as shown you
08:16	<alkisg> markit: then you need g+w for FILES as well
08:16	Not only for directories
08:16	<markit> the problem is that if I change umask to students and teacher, then students can read teacher's files as well
08:16	<alkisg> So you do need umask for all students files
08:17	Then just change it for the students
08:17	put a logic "if i'm a student, change umask" in /etc/profile
08:17	<markit> if I don't change for teacher, he will produce files that are only "read" for the group
08:17	so if he copies to student's home, the student can't modify it
08:18	the correct umask should be a property of the directory, not the user
08:18	<alkisg> There's ACLs for such fine grained permissions
08:18	<markit> I want to create a "/srv/shared" directory
08:18	<alkisg> But I've never used ACLs on unix
08:18	<markit> oh, sigh
08:18	I increase complexity
08:19	<alkisg> Why don't you do all that with ssh?
08:19	<markit> I'm shocked that a multiuser OS has no easy way to do what I need
08:19	ssh?
08:19	I've a ltsp solution... what do you mean?
08:19	<alkisg> I.e. copy the teacher public ssh keys to the students .ssh folder, so that the teachers can login/sftp in their accounts
08:19	<markit> sftp is too complicated for dummy teachers
08:19	<alkisg> This way, a teacher can open a nautilus window running as the student
08:20	So he can transfer files between nautilus windows
08:20	first window == teacher, second window == running as the student
08:20	<markit> I need them to simply create files in the shared folder
08:20	and the students be able to bring it up, copy in their home and modify it at will
08:21	<alkisg> Well I have a shared folder too - but students don't have access there
08:21	<markit> btw, I use KDE, but could do the job with IOSlaves, but too complicated
08:21	a shared folder no one can share???
08:21	<alkisg> Teachers write stuff to that directory, and students have a symlink for it in their desktops
08:21	<markit> can they open that folder, copy the content and modify it?
08:21	<alkisg> Yes, but they need to save it in their own documents
08:22	<markit> I mean "here students I've put a simple Calc file, grab it and modify adding a chart"
08:22	<alkisg> They don't save to that folder
08:22	Right, but they need an extra step - "save as..."
08:22	<markit> oh, you mean that once they copy that file, the owner becomes the student itself?
08:22	<alkisg> I prefer it this way (I'm a teacher too)
08:22	Yes. Use case:
08:22	"Students, open that calc file"
08:22	A user double clicks on "shared folder"
08:22	<markit> I see
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08:23	<markit> save as "their home"
08:23	as a new copy they own
08:23	<alkisg> double clicks on "exercise1.calc", modifies it, and saves it to their own documents
08:23	Right
08:23	<markit> well, I consider it a good workaround, still I would love to find the "right" solution
08:23	<brettbjorgaard> anyone here had problems getting ubuntu lts to work on any layer 3 switch?
08:23	<alkisg> markit: if you search the ltsp logs, sbalneav had written a tutorial about linux ACLs on this precice problem
08:24	...but I didn't need it, so I didn't note down the exact date
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08:26	<markit> alkisg: thanks a lot! hope to find it. Btw, where are you from and what is your experience about ltsp and Free Software at school?
08:27	<alkisg> markit: I'm from Greece, I'm a teacher + an LTSP developer, and I've been using LTSP in my classrooms for the last 3 years
08:27	<markit> I've not deployed it yet, but I've been scared about teacher's willing to "see the new things"
08:27	alkisg: of course you are a special case :)
08:27	<alkisg> Most teachers here don't want to see new things
08:27	<markit> (btw, my compliments and gratitude for ltsp)
08:28	<alkisg> But I'm changing schools every year, and I'm deploying it on any school I get to,
08:28	<markit> maybe I'm a too high consideration of what should be teh teacer's role in education?
08:28	<alkisg> ...and when the teachers there see it for some months, they actually stop using windows and switch to ltsp themselves
08:28	<markit> alkisg: I've heard many "horror story" about this situations
08:28	contrary of what you are telling me
08:28	i.e. once the "ltsp guru" leaves, they just switch to M$crap
08:29	since a) they have no clue about how to mantein the solution
08:29	b) they only know something abotu M$ chainsworld
08:29	c) they perceive Free software as "a low level solution, just cheap"
08:29	<alkisg> In my case, they didn't want to return to windows because ltsp worked better for them
08:29	<markit> d) there is always a program that runs only on windows that they feel "indispensable"
08:30	<alkisg> A good initial setup is very persuative
08:30	<markit> alkisg: but you have troubles with multimedia, for instance
08:30	<alkisg> Not really
08:30	The old PCs didn't have any multimedia in any case, and now they're able to play video, so it's better,
08:30	<markit> are you able to "stream" a video to all clients, for instance?
08:30	<alkisg> yes
08:30	<markit> and do you use iTalc?
08:31	<alkisg> while the new PCs are working as fat clients, and they're able to perform like standalone desktop pcs
08:31	I've been using iTalc but now I'm making my own implementation because it had problems in some labs
08:31	<markit> alkisg: ah, ltsp "fat" setting? I see (isn't fat a pretty new feature?)
08:31	<alkisg> ...and upstream wasn't too interested in accepting patches
08:31	<markit> alkisg: really???? so sad!
08:32	why not?
08:32	<alkisg> markit: yes, it's pretty new, I've been developing + testing it for the past months though so it's pretty stable for my needs
08:32	<markit> if upstream is not good, the project dies quickly
08:32	<alkisg> I don't know. I just sent some patches + tried to offer whatever programming support I could, but I got no answer
08:32	We're waiting for a future version 2.0, if that ever comes out, I may use it again
08:33	<markit> alkisg: I've to run to work, do you mind exchange e-mail in private chat, and please give me more details about your deploys? I have some other quesitons I would love to ask you
08:33	<brettbjorgaard> alkisg, would you know anything about setting up lts on a Layer 3 switch vlan, i cant find any solutions at the moment and you seem like you know what your talking about.
08:33	<alkisg> markit: sure, but I usually hang out here and in #edubuntu, so you can find me here as well. alkisg at gmail.
08:33	<markit> like how organize "users" (like "user_01"... or name.surname and have to change every time a student leaves school / enters?)
08:33	<alkisg> brettbjorgaard: no, sorry.
08:33	<markit> thanks a LOT
08:34	<alkisg> You're welcome
08:34	<markit> bye!
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09:18	<vbundi> brettbjogaard: what do you want to do, have your thin clients on a vlan separate from everything else on the network?
09:21	<brettbjorgaard> yes, the vlan is configured and is going out to internet, but the clients give me a pxe-t01 file not found error after pulling an ip address from dhcp
09:21	couldnt find anything in the switches configuration to fix this, so i dont know if its the problem or if my server is.
09:24	<vbundi> brettbjorgaard: are you using 1 nic on the server or 2?, what version and arch of LTSP are you using, and are your clients getting ip addresses at all?
09:28	<brettbjorgaard> 1 pci nic, im using the ltsp-5 on a i386, yes they are pulling IPs, when i plug into an un-managed switch or hub it works fine.
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09:34	<vbundi> how familiar are you with wireshark?
09:35	<brettbjorgaard> I've used it a few times, you suggest to see whats going on with the tftp when i boot the thinclients?
09:36	<vbundi> most of my VLAN experience is with Layer 2 switches and Tagging though vconfig... I know Layer 3 switches have more features like UDP Helper for DHCP, but I'd have to mess with one myself to learn more
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09:37	<vbundi> brettbjogaard: yea easiest way to diagnose..... first set it up on your LTSP server, and see if your client's dhcp requests are hitting it
09:37	it will show that the packets are tagged with vlan ID: XXX or not
09:38	is your LTSP server NIC configured for vlan, or are you doing all the smarts at the switch?
09:38	<brettbjorgaard> everything is in the switch, i havent messed with the nic configuration
09:47	I'm fairly sure the problem is within the layer 3 switch, but im in a class enviroment and the teacher dumps all of the new hardware on me and a buddy without instruction.
09:47	<vbundi> yeah sorry for the delay, I'm trying to figure this out myself
09:48	<brettbjorgaard> our schools netadmin plans to implement lts over our college's entire Tech Center If we get this up
09:48	<vbundi> the way I have mine set up, I'm using Vlan aware devices, so they tag their own frames
09:48	<brettbjorgaard> do you need a certain nic card for that, or is it just configuration?
09:48	<vbundi> in your vlan, you have your server, and your clients, all members of the same vlan, configured for Untagged?
09:49	<johnny> how about just disable the vlanning :)
09:49	lol
09:49	<vbundi> your nic needs to support it, but most (in my experience) do
09:50	johnny: I'm assuming its for some sort of 'learning' purpose ;P
09:50	<johnny> then why should we help with the learning.. :) sounds like school work :)
09:50	lol
09:51	/me pokes alkisg
09:51	<vbundi> guess I'm just interested :P... maybe I should go back to school
09:51	<johnny> vbundi, nah.. it doesn't matter
09:52	if the channel becomes more active about specific ltsp questions, move it to another room or PM tho
09:52	as it is offtopic
09:52	<vbundi> sure thing
09:52	<brettbjorgaard> i will research this vlan aware and get it set up, and when i disable vlan it works fine, but vlans are in our netadmins network, thanks for your help i may be back later.
09:53	* alkisg reads the logs...
09:53	<vbundi> brettbjogaard: since your devices are 'dumb' they need all members on untagged ports
09:54	* alkisg has no clue about vlans or level 3 switches...
09:55	<vbundi> my network I have VOIP phones and LTSP terminals on shared ethernet, before I switched to vlans, if a user started transfering files over the network, wed have call quality issues
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10:08	<vbundi> hey I've got parallel port printers... what should I have my ports on my terminals set to, EPP?
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10:24	<vbundi> alright, so in dmesg I can see it's detecting the printer.... for some reason though when I try to share it in cups, it won't connect, or print a test page
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10:50	<vbundi> figured out my printer problem... in my lts.conf I was using [hostname] to configure printer settings, when I switched to [ma:ca:dd:re:ss] it worked...
10:51	I thought you could set settings under a hostname rather than the mac address in the lts.conf, am I missing something else in order for that to work?
10:54	<johnny> you could if your clients actually have a hostname
10:54	are you sure dhcp is giving them one
10:54	and that it is addressable?
10:54	and you ping <host> ?
10:54	<alkisg> vbundi: in the ldm screen, do you see the client hostname in the right-down corner?
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10:59	<dragonbch> hello! to all
10:59	<alkisg> hi
10:59	<dragonbch> somebody speak spanish?
11:00	I have e problem intalling ltsp from e repositorio local in my HD
11:00	:s
11:00	http://www.esdebian.org/foro/40531/problema-configurando-servidor-ltsp
11:01	(Sorry mi english not is good)
11:01	<johnny> dragonbch, try again with this
11:01	LANG=C ltsp-build-client --arch i386
11:01	so you can give us english text
11:01	<dragonbch> is when I ejecute the line ltsp-build-client --arch i386
11:03	server:~# LANG=C ltsp-build-client --arch i386
11:03	NOTE: adding default dist and components to security mirror:
11:03	http://security.debian.org/ lenny/updates main
11:03	NOTE: Root directory /opt/ltsp/i386 already exists, this will lead to problems, please remove it before trying again. Exiting.
11:03	error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
11:03	server:~#
11:04	<johnny> do that
11:04	<dragonbch> I don't have access to internet, is that I'm closed of a proxy
11:04	<johnny> rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386
11:04	and try again
11:04	oh.. so you want to install ltsp from a cd?
11:04	or something?
11:04	<dragonbch> and I don't access to repositories in internet
11:04	<johnny> then you will have to get a cd or dvd or some other package listing
11:05	dragonbch, is it possible for you to build client at home?
11:05	<vbundi> alkisg: yeah it's setting the hostname as ltspXX instead of the hostname I defined in the dhcpd.conf
11:06	<alkisg> vbundi: distro/version?
11:06	<vbundi> lucid 64
11:06	<alkisg> Hmmm it should work there
11:06	<vbundi> let me post my dhcpd.conf maybe I'm missing a setting
11:06	<alkisg> And you only have the ltsp server as a dhcp server?
11:07	<vbundi> effectively.. yea
11:08	<alkisg> !localxterm
11:08	<ltspbot> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
11:08	<alkisg> Ah, no, you need root rights
11:08	!shell-screen
11:08	<ltspbot> alkisg: "shell-screen" :: One way to get local root access to troubleshoot a thin client is to use a shell SCREEN: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
11:09	<vbundi> I have a shell
11:09	<alkisg> vbundi: on a shell screen, run ipconfig -n eth0
11:09	<vbundi> http://pastebin.com/qSi1GS4d
11:09	<alkisg> You'll see there if it gets the hostname or not
11:10	<johnny> dragonbch, ltsp-build-client --extra-help
11:10	there is stuff about specifying mirrors there
11:11	alkisg, so.. are you still trying to setup that remote control thing?
11:11	i have somebody who might want to help you
11:11	<alkisg> johnny: really? very cool!
11:11	We've paid a python network programmer to write us the network backend
11:11	The client is just a shell with redirected descriptors for stdin/stdout: `nc server 1234 -e /bin/sh`
11:12	<dragonbch> I ejecute teh line with this argument:
11:12	ltsp-build-client --base /opt/ltsp/ --arch i386 --dist lenny --mirror ftp://192.168.74.3/debian
11:12
11:12	<johnny> alkisg, ... he was gonna do it
11:12	for free
11:12	<dragonbch> and run good
11:12	<alkisg> ...but on the server there's a daemon that multiplexes connections, and a GUI client
11:12	<johnny> he's doing nc over xmpp
11:12	<dragonbch> but to end
11:12	<alkisg> johnny: dah... I wish I'd known this some days ago
11:13	<vbundi> alkisg:
11:13	<alkisg> Now the backend is ready, and we're just looking to integrate it to our existing GUI
11:13	<johnny> not the gui client for free obviously :)
11:13	<vbundi> alkisg: 'iPconfig -n eth0'?
11:13	<alkisg> vbundi: yes
11:13	<vbundi> ipconfig is not in my path
11:13	<alkisg> vbundi: you need a root shell, ipconfig is in /sbin
11:14	!shell-screen
11:14	<ltspbot> alkisg: "shell-screen" :: One way to get local root access to troubleshoot a thin client is to use a shell SCREEN: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using%20a%20shell%20SCREEN
11:14	<vbundi> I'm at a root shell on screen 2
11:14	SCREEN_02 = shell
11:14	<alkisg> Hmm then why don't you have /sbin in your path?
11:14	<dragonbch> how I can omite this /debian-security?
11:14	<alkisg> vbundi: sorry my bad: /usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig
11:15	<vbundi> ok so it spit out hardware mac mtu 1500 DHCP RARP
11:15	but it's waiting now
11:16	<alkisg> vbundi: did you put the -n there?
11:17	usr/lib/klibc/bin/ipconfig -n eth0
11:17	<vbundi> yea
11:18	<alkisg> Hmm so it doesn't get a dhcp reply?
11:19	<vbundi> I guess not, I can't even ctrl-c out of it now
11:19	<alkisg> Weird
11:20	<vbundi> it can obviously talk to the dhcp server though because it's serving an ip and image right
11:20	<alkisg> How many clients do you have?
11:20	<vbundi> 2 at the moment
11:20	<alkisg> Maybe you need to increase the range
11:21	Do you see anything in daemon.log?
11:21	<vbundi> Apr 9 10:06:41 ubuntuServer dhcpd: ICMP Echo reply while lease 192.168.1.20 valid.
11:22	Apr 9 10:06:41 ubuntuServer dhcpd: Abandoning IP address 192.168.1.20: pinged before offer
11:22	<alkisg> OK, it should offer another IP after that
11:22	Did it/
11:22	?
11:23	<vbundi> no
11:23	last line is Apr 9 10:12:31 ubuntuServer nbd_server[4448]: Read failed: Connection timed out
11:23	don't know if that's relevent
11:23	*relevant
11:24	rebooted the terminal... it's now getting a diff ip (192.168.1.22 vs 20)
11:24	<alkisg> If you hadn't put -n there, then it would get a different ip and it would stuck - but -n means just to "emulate" the request, to not apply it..
11:24	So I don't know what went wrong
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11:47	<vbundi> alkisg: even running without the -n option it still hangs...
11:47	<alkisg> vbundi: without -n, it will surely hang
11:47	But with -n it shouldn't hang...
11:48	Anyway, let's try this another way
11:48	<vbundi> alkisg: oh I see... do you think it has anything to do with me running a 1 nic setup
11:48	<alkisg> Put break=mount in pxelinux.cfg/default
11:48	<vbundi> k
11:48	<alkisg> Then, cat /tmp/net-eth0.conf
11:48	...and see if you have a dns server entry there
11:51	<vbundi> /tmp/net-eth0.conf doesn't exist
11:56	<alkisg> bah my vbox clients don't want to accept [enter]... heh
11:57	I'll need an update, it'll take some time...
11:58	vbundi: try again with break=init
11:58	<vbundi> not sure if this makes a difference but I'm running IPAPPEND 3
11:58	<alkisg> Yup, it does
11:59	That's why I was asking if you only have one dhcp server :)
11:59	*the ltsp server
11:59	<vbundi> and that's why I said, effectively ;P
11:59	<alkisg> OK, problem solved...
11:59	<vbundi> I guess it is not effective in all situations
11:59	<alkisg> two solutions:
11:59	1) replace ipappend 3 with nbdroot=server ip
11:59	or
11:59	2) keep ipappend 3 but also put autoconf=dhcp
11:59	The first one is cleaner
12:00	I'm using the second because I don't have to maintain the server ip in this case :)
12:00	<vbundi> ah
12:01	cool, I'll probably replace the current DHCP server with this one when things get up and running, but for now, I've got the LTSP server only accepting 'known' clients, and I've set the other DHCP server to only offer images to specific ip's rather than every pxe client
12:04	alkisg: alright, so ipconfig -n eth0 works now, but it's spitting out information from my other dhcp server
12:04	alkisg: so apparently, my quick fix isn't working as intended
12:04	<alkisg> vbundi: give me a summary about your dhcp setup
12:05	<vbundi> 2 dhcp servers.. the basic lucid LTSP one, and an LTSP 4.2 one serving the 'real' network
12:06	<alkisg> Erm, why do you have the lucid ltsp one then?
12:07	<vbundi> because a) didn't think it would complicate things this much, and b) I don't know how to boot some terminals with one image (located on the LTSP 4.2 server) and my test terminals with a different image (located on my lucid system)
12:07	I suppose I could move my lucid image to the LTSP4.2 server
12:08	<alkisg> vbundi: you just need to set a different "next-server" for the new clients
12:08	<vbundi> kind of a pain for keeping up to date though
12:09	<alkisg> So remove the lucid dhcp server and switch to sending different "next-server" directives based on the client mac addresses
12:10	<vbundi> so in dhcpd.conf...... host aTerminal1 { hardware ethernet ma:ca:dd:re:ss; fixed-address 192.168.1.20; option next-server 192.168.1.119; }
12:10	<alkisg> Yes, and if needed, a different filename
12:10	(I've never seen a 4.2 setup)
12:11	<vbundi> k I'll try some stuff here
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12:25	<mikeshultz> Are there any good resources in trying to determine what kind of server hardware would be needed for ltsp?
12:27	<johnny> !docs
12:27	<ltspbot> johnny: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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12:33	<vbundi> alkisg: man that was almost too easy
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12:34	* alkisg hasn't found any cases where 2 dhcp servers are required yet..
12:34	<alkisg> (even if the first one is unmodifiable)
12:35	<vbundi> alkisg: just for testing... I'm not gonna keep it this way forever
12:35	hey so when I run ipconfig -n eth0, I get a line that says rootserver: [ltspserver ip] rootpath: [dhcpserver ip]:/opt/ltsp/i386
12:36	I don't think that root path is right
12:37	it should be pointing to the ltsp server :/opt/ltsp/adm64 for this particular setting
12:37	<johnny> root path doesn't even matter on ubuntu tho
12:37	<vbundi> ah, I see I'd just have to set option root-path in the host line I thin ktho
12:38	<alkisg> root-path isn't needed
12:39	<vbundi> k
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12:41	<vbundi> alkisg: you said you were a teacher? what kind?
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12:42	<mikeshultz> The 'ServerSizing' wiki page doesn't exist, even though it's linked just for this purpose.
12:43	<vbundi> how many clients do you wanna run?
12:43	<johnny> sbalneav, where did the serversizing page go?
12:44	<alkisg> vbundi: I'm teaching computer lessons in kids 12-18 y.o.
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12:48	<vbundi> alkisg: cool, and they let you roll your own LTSP setup? Our schools board is pretty strict on clasroom computer stuff
12:49	they have 3 guys that manage the computer labs for the schools in the city and surrounding towns (approx 80K people)
12:51	<alkisg> vbundi: sure, my first LTSP setup was sponsored by the greek ministry
12:51	They gave us a server as part of a pilot program
12:52	That's when I first saw LTSP, and I loved it so much I'm now trying to get it to more schools :)
12:52	<vbundi> wow that's awesome
12:52	<alkisg> I've even made a repository with 10 GB of greek edu apps, so it's now much, much easier to install an ltsp school lab than a windows lab
12:53	<vbundi> one of the guys in our LUG group has an LTSP server out at a private school... it's too bad our public school board is so dead set on giving our taxdollars away to microsoft
12:53	easier and cheaper
12:54	the problem is though, in my province anyway.. they don't want to teach students how to use a spreadsheet program, or how to use a document editor... they want to teach them how to use excel and word
12:55	<alkisg> That's a tough one then
12:55	<cliebow> vbundi:i feel your pain..same here
12:55	<alkisg> If they're not willing to switch to openoffice, there's no point in them trying LTSP
12:55	(except for windows terminal services clients, but that's another story)
12:56	<vbundi> well... it's possible to install office 2007 on an LTSP server, I don't know how great performance would be though
12:56	<cliebow> i started out with a powerpclab of chubby clients
12:56	<johnny> via wine..
12:56	<vbundi> ^ yeah, and it's not a perfect running setup
12:56	little glitchy
12:56	<alkisg> Wine is just for 1-2 programs... if they want ms office, they won't stop to that
12:57	<cliebow> here they wouldnt buy thin clients..then spent 400000 on powerbooks
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12:58	<vbundi> yep, I was at city transit yesterday, and they're running brand new Dell Core2 desktops lol
12:59	I understand some of their software is probably only written for windows... and it's pretty proprietary... but in a setting like a school where kids are learning basic office and media stuff... its crazy that they aren't runnling linux
13:00	<cliebow> my last tech coordinator was pretty intrigued with ltsp..the new hasnt got a clue how it might work
13:00	<dragonbch> johnny and other look:
13:00	http://pastebin.com/RAdagKpB
13:00	<alkisg> I'm hoping that with the sch-scripts classroom control software that we're developing, more teachers here will want to switch to thin/fat clients...
13:02	<cliebow> i had a nice tweak of the old teachertool for that..
13:02	<dragonbch> alkisg look the link up
13:04	<vbundi> alkisg: my hostnames are still being 'autoset' as ltspXX, on my dhcp server I have use-host-decl-names on, is there something else that might be required?
13:05	<cliebow> alkisg:you should find a good excuse to come to bts..
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13:07	<alkisg> vbundi: so now with break=init, do you see a dns name in /tmp/net-eth0.conf ?
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13:10	<vbundi> alkisg: oop, lemme see
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13:13	<dragonbch> (other) already in chroot. LOOK!! :s something go bad :(
13:13	http://pastebin.com/7L1xFTqk
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13:13	<vbundi> alkisg: that worked... I can see my hostname is set now
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13:14	<vbundi> why is break=init required for this?
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13:16	<Barbosa> Hi for all, Is possible one station with 32 of RAM execute in LTSP5 ?
13:17	<vbundi> no sorry
13:17	<abeehc> it's possible
13:17	not ideal
13:18	<vbundi> really, I can't boot a virtual terminal with less than 64 last I checked
13:18	<abeehc> i have these little ipaqs, they definately booted with 5.1
13:19	<vbundi> isn't an ipaq a palm pilot type thing??
13:19	<abeehc> hehe you'd think
13:19	it's confusing
13:19	at some point there was a mobile product called ipaq
13:19	<dragonbch> to correctly configure ltsp is required to have access to http://security.debian.org, I can skip that step?
13:19	<abeehc> http://getupandshout.com/compaq_ipaq.jpg
13:20	<Barbosa> abeehc: is there some specific configuration for this case?
13:20	<abeehc> nope not really
13:20	i think you wanna make sure nbd swap is goin
13:20	and do not use localapps of course
13:20	i tried ;)
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13:20	<Barbosa> abeehc: ok.
13:21	<abeehc> still not ideal
13:21	<vbundi> ltsp-localapps vi ;P
13:21	<abeehc> hehe
13:21	<vbundi> crash
13:21	I have 32 Meg clients... they do not boot
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13:21	<Barbosa> abeehc: I use https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/EnableNBDSWAP this step by step, but I get kernel panic
13:22	<davidj> dragonbch: I'm seeing the same thing here on a debian lenny machine. I've asked in #debian, no answer yet.
13:22	<abeehc> Barbosa: yep that's along the lines of what i did
13:22	<davidj> dragonbch: It should work, but I don't know that we aren't missing critial updates.
13:22	<abeehc> mine bot i don't know what to say
13:22	boot*
13:22	what kind of hardware is it?
13:23	* abeehc pulls out an ipaq
13:23	<vbundi> what kind of platform were those ipaq things... pentium?
13:23	<dragonbch> davidj :s
13:24	<abeehc> some pentium II some III
13:24	<vbundi> alkisg: slight snag... now that this host name is set, I am no longer getting shell on SCREEN_02... I have SCREEN_02 = shell under [default] at the top of the file
13:24	<abeehc> mostly celeron 500mhz
13:24	<Barbosa> abeehc: one moment please, I get this information
13:25	<vbundi> ahh ok... my 32MB clients were SIS or Geode or something
13:25	<abeehc> i still might be wrong i'm gonna go plug one in
13:25	<dragonbch> davidj I need to configure a server for thin clients, but do not want to use windows 2003 server
13:25	<abeehc> a have a few runing but i'm just having them rdp in production
13:27	<Barbosa> abeehc: Pentium 233 32 Mb with 2Mb share video memory
13:27	<dragonbch> They know some other method to use terminal server host on debian lenny and functioning using a local repository?
13:28	<johnny> Barbosa, that's too small..
13:28	you can't use ltsp 5
13:29	alkisg, must you create the nbd swap conf file to use it?
13:29	just setting nbd swap isn't enough?
13:29	<alkisg> it's enough
13:29	* alkisg reads...
13:31	<vbundi> seriously a 32MB client will bring up an LDM screen?
13:31	<abeehc> i thought so
13:31	<Barbosa> johnny: I put http://pastebin.be/24270
13:31	<abeehc> i guess i was wrong
13:31	gonna find out in a couple minutes htough hehe
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13:31	<alkisg> No, a 32 MB client can't boot in recent kernels
13:31	<johnny> Barbosa, it doesn't matter
13:31	you can't boot it
13:31	Barbosa, it fails before you can even get to the swap
13:32	<alkisg> I was able to boot a 48MB client in 15 minutes, I think
13:32	In anycase it's unusable
13:32	<vbundi> ascii porn terminal
13:32	maybe.
13:32	<alkisg> vbundi: you don't get a screen_02=shell? Can you post your lts.conf?
13:33	<vbundi> yea
13:33	<alkisg> Btw, nbd swapping is broken in Karmic
13:33	<Barbosa> alkisg: hum
13:33	<alkisg> So setting NBD_SWAP=True isn't enough, a patch needs to be applied
13:33	But all in vain; 32 MB clients won't boot.
13:34	<vbundi> alkisg: http://pastebin.com/ETMuNS1S
13:34	<alkisg> vbundi: you don't need a dns server if your dhcp server sends one
13:34	vbundi: can you open a localxterm and run getltscfg -a?
13:34	!localxterm
13:34	<ltspbot> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
13:35	<vbundi> ah k, was just following the wiki
13:35	sec, loggin in
13:35	alkisg: no output!
13:36	<alkisg> Well, that's your problem then, lts.conf doesn't reach the clients
13:36	What's your new dhcpd.conf configuration?
13:37	<vbundi> hmm
13:37	sec
13:37	<alkisg> (only one dhcp server now, right?)
13:37	vbundi: the filename part, mostly
13:38	<vbundi> http://pastebin.com/QcVvecxr
13:38	<alkisg> vbundi: and where's your lts.conf located in your disk?
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13:39	<vbundi> alkisg: /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/amd64/lts.conf
13:40	<alkisg> vbundi: check your logs, do you see tftp complaining about some file not found?
13:41	Ah
13:41	That's on the new ltsp server, right? Not the 4.2 one...
13:41	<vbundi> just says 'client doesn't accept options'
13:41	correct
13:42	<alkisg> Hrm
13:43	Try copying ltsp/amd64/lts.conf to ltsp/i386/lts.conf, to see if that helps
13:43	<vbundi> it's a symbolic link
13:44	<alkisg> Try break=init again
13:44	See the filename in /tmp/net-eth0.conf
13:44	...and see if lts.conf was downloaded
13:44	<vbundi> break=init is in there
13:44	:q
13:45	can't find a /tmp/net-eth0.conf
13:45	<alkisg> With break=init?
13:45	<vbundi> yea
13:45	<alkisg> Not on the booted system... on the initramfs
13:46	<vbundi> umm, initramfs.....
13:46	<alkisg> i.e. reboot the client
13:46	and when you get a busybox prompt, run ls /tmp
13:47	<vbundi> I don't see a busybox prompt it goes straight into ldm
13:48	<alkisg> Erm, that should be on the old 4.2 server
13:48	...as it boots from there
13:48	or not?
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13:48	<alkisg> No no sorry
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13:49	<alkisg> So in amd64/pxelinux.cfg/default you have break=init, and you don't get a busybox shell?
13:49	<vbundi> exactly
13:49	when I added break=init.. thats when my hostname changed to the proper one, and I stopped getting my lts.conf settings
13:50	<alkisg> can you post your pxelinux.cfg/default ?
13:50	<vbundi> label ltsp
13:50	kernel vmlinuz
13:50	append ro initrd=initrd.img quiet splash nbdport=2000
13:50	break=init
13:50	<alkisg> yeah, no
13:50	<vbundi> default ltsp is top line
13:50	<alkisg> append ro initrd=initrd.img break=init quiet splash nbdport=2000
13:50	It goes there ^^^
13:50	<vbundi> aw well shucks.
13:51	<alkisg> anyway /me needs to get some work done, be back later
13:51	<vbundi> hey thanks a lot though
13:51	<alkisg> yw
13:51	<vbundi> I appreciate the assistance
13:51	:)
14:07	<dragonbch> vbundi whe I install ltsp-server not create directory /opt/ltsp
14:07	exportfs: Warning: /opt/ltsp does not exist
14:07	:s
14:08	I must create it manually?
14:11	<vbundi> hmm no it should be there
14:13	<Gadi> you need to run ltsp-build-client
14:13	<dragonbch> mmm...
14:14	If I run this line after creating the directory
14:17	run the line as follows:
14:17	ltsp-build-client - base / opt / ltsp / - arch i386 - dist lenny - mirror ftp://192.168.74.3/debian
14:17	But apparently not created correctly the base system, for example, the / boot directory is left empty.
14:17	:(
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14:19	<brettbjorgaardu> vbundi, could you tell me how you made your ethX interface aware of your vlans?
14:20	<vbundi> yea
14:20	one sec
14:20	what distro are you using
14:20	<brettbjorgaardu> k12linux F10
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14:22	<jammcq> hello my friends
14:22	<vbundi> this is a very good start for VLAN http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7268
14:23	<dragonbch> hello jammcq
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14:24	<vbundi> for CENTOS the package is vconfig, for ubuntu it's vlan... try doing yum search vlan for the package to install in Fedora
14:24	before using vconfig you'll have to modprobe 8021q
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14:38	<dragonbch> vbundi There is a package .deb that contains everything you need to configure ltfp without having to access any repository?
14:38	in internet.
14:39	ltsp*
14:40	<nubae> Are u asking whethere u can set up ltsp without an internet connection dragonbch?
14:42	<dragonbch> yes nubae
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14:43	<dragonbch> is that I don't have access to internet repository
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14:46	<dragonbch> and when I run
14:46	ltsp-build-client - base / opt / ltsp / - arch i386 - dist lenny - mirror ftp://192.168.74.3/debian
14:46	I finally said:
14:46	-------------------------------------------------- ---------------------
14:46	W: Failed to fetch http://security.debian.org/dists/lenny/updates/main/binary-i386/Packages Can not Initiate the connection to security.debian.org: 80 (2001:4 f8: 8:36:: 6). - Connect (101 Network is unreachable) [IP: 2001:4 f8: 8:36:: 6 80]
14:46	E: Some index files failed to download, They Have Been ignored, or old ones Used
14:46	instead.
14:46	error: LTSP client installation ended Abnormally
14:46	-------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------
14:47	<Lns> !pastebin
14:47	<ltspbot> Lns: "pastebin" :: try !pastebot
14:47	<Lns> !pastebot
14:47	<ltspbot> Lns: "pastebot" :: The LTSP pastebot is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
14:47	<Lns> dragonbch: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
14:47	<dragonbch> sorry!
14:47	<Lns> its ok =)
14:48	<dragonbch> (y)
14:48	<Lns> next time, though, you get to put the dunce cap on ;)
14:48	<dragonbch> xdd
14:51	I fail to create the image that will load properly thin clients :(
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14:53	<dragonbch> I need to configure ltsp without having to access / debian-security
14:53	<alkisg> dragonbch: for example, the ubuntu alternate cd (there's probably a debian version too) allows you to setup LTSP with no internet connection and without running any commands
14:53	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
14:54	That will get you a working ltsp installation in a few minutes, and you can customize it later on when you're more experienced...
14:55	<dragonbch> mmm thank!
14:56	I hope there is one for Debian Lenny
14:56	a CD
15:02	<Lns> dragonbch: you might try debian-edu / skolelinux, that has ltsp built-into the dvd
15:03	<dragonbch> mmm
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15:04	<Lns> dragonbch: but beware it is a heavily modified ltsp in the sense that you'll have to do some manual modifications to ip addresses unless you're using it as a standalone network/ltsp server
15:04	none the less, lwat looks extremely attractive for ltsp admins..i'm testing out a lenny + backports install right now
15:05	<dragonbch> Lns: as I can not download anything from the internet because I have enclosed a proxy, it makes me difficult to get other distribution.
15:05	but I will keep investigating
15:05	thanks
15:06	:s
15:10	sorry, my english not is good
15:10	:)
15:12	<Lns> dragonbch: your english is fine =)
15:14	<dragonbch> grx
15:14	thank
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15:41	<kusznir> Hi all: I'm having issues with my ltsp server's level of reliability. (It seems that some combination of users and software is causing it to crash).
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15:42	<kusznir> In addition, with the frequency that ubuntu releases updates, I need to reboot it semi-often (twice a week'ish, it seems). Unfortunately, whenever my ltsp server reboots, all my thin clients crash due to their nbd host going down.
15:44	So, to avoid crashing thin clients all the time, is it reasonable/advisable to run a dedicated vm which is around just to serve the thin client's nbd/tftp needs, and to NOT allow users to log into it? (EG, a netboot server)? If I do configure it that way, will I loose functionality (localapp command, usb disk, etc.)?
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15:47	<kusznir> The actual user login servers can be configured as ltsp servers as well (ubuntu 9.10), but I just wanted something that the thin clients are NOT booting from.
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16:15	<johnny> kusznir, just don't update until all terminals are shut down for the night
16:16	or.. just don't follow the instructions to reboot
16:16	unless it's a kernel update, you should almost never need to reboot after an upgrade
16:16	<kusznir> In my case, terminals don't get turned off for the night, and are often still in use when I leave for the night...this is a college campus :)
16:16	<johnny> and most of those you can ignore, unless they solve a vulnerability
16:16	well.. just shut down for kernel upgrades every month
16:16	otherwise never shutdown
16:16	scheduled downtime
16:16	<kusznir> Yea...just get annoyed by the "you need to restart" issue...And lately, I've been having issues with the system becoming overloaded or otherwise crashing due to some aspect of serving up user sessions.
16:17	<johnny> well.. that's a seperate problem
16:17	you can find out what is cauisng that i'm sure
16:17	<kusznir> For user data, I fixed the problem by creating a dedicated file server that users don't get on.
16:17	<alkisg> nfs?
16:17	<kusznir> So far, it appears its user authentication under ubuntu 9.10. Other OSes don't have an issue, and if I shut down winbind, this one doesn't have issues.
16:18	yep, NFS, with samba for windows clients.
16:19	<markit> hi, I'm using kubuntu ltsp, and a firewall on it. Any idea what port should I open for NBD functionality?
16:20	<kusznir> In general, I don't like running "core" services on machines (vm's, etc) that users also get to log into. as I have two thin client servers users can choose from, I now consider thin client netboot/root image a "core" functionality. And earlier today, the entire lab went hard down for a while due to my main ltsp box (ubuntu 9.10) crashing hard and not rebooting.
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16:20	<kusznir> Fortunately, I had another ltsp box configured for netbooting, so I just changed my dhcp server to point to the other one and rebooted, but I'd rather not have them go down in the first place.
16:20	(just have to select another term server and log back in....)
16:21	<johnny> markit, look in /etc/inetd.conf
16:21	you need to open all those
16:21	<kusznir> And also, as I'm serving up university students, they will occasionally do "stupid" things that will bring the box down...Already had issues with them running 2-4 hour CPU-intensive simulations at 2 for every physical core I had....that wasn't fun...
16:21	They're also writing programs and running it on here...
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16:29	<abeehc> seems to me if your main box is crashing none of those other things are going to help that much
16:30	i had similar fun with ltsp under vmware esx
16:38	<markit> johnny: thanks a lot (how can you be sure are only the ones related with nbd? In this case seems so, but...)
16:38	<johnny> also open the ldm port markit ..
16:38	it's 3 ports in total
16:38	and/or tftp if you're hosting tftp..
16:39	<markit> johnny: ok, so the lines that contain "nbd" and "ldm"
16:39	sure, and ssh also, and dhcp, and... ping I've read can be useful
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16:45	<markit> ok, works fine, thanks :)
16:46	only "problem" is that during boot I've a image jumping very fast on the screen I can't read :( then comes the ltsp login but after logging I've a 800x600 screen, while the lcd monitor is 1280x1024
16:46	but at least seems to work :)
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17:08	<mikeshultz> Are there any good resources in trying to determine what kind of server hardware would be needed for ltsp?
17:09	The 'ServerSizing' wiki page doesn't exist, even though it's linked just for this purpose.
17:10	<johnny> it'll be back soon i hope
17:10	192 + (128 x clients) mikeshultz
17:11	that's the most base configuration..
17:11	i would go with
17:11	512mb + (192 x clients) tho
17:11	<markit> mm I've plugged a pen drive in the client, but no notification is showing in the KDE interface. Is there any parameter to set for "local device" support? ltsp 5.2.1, kubuntu 10.04
17:11	<johnny> mikeshultz, there ya go... go with the second one if you wanna be sure
17:12	kde doesn't have great support
17:12	/me has no idea
17:12	it all just works with gnome tho
17:12	you probably have to do magick to make it work markit
17:12	i'd recommend you go with gnome with ltsp tho.. you'll get the best help that way
17:12	<mikeshultz> johnny: Just that simple? What about proc and disk speed and all that?
17:13	<johnny> the best you can afford
17:13	there are no requirements tho
17:13	<markit> I'm not a gread magician... and unfortunatly I've never used gnome, so could not show how good GNU/Linux works being not able to move fluently through the interface
17:13	<johnny> well there are probaby minimum proc for the cleint tho
17:13	<mikeshultz> Is there any average upper limit in clients you can have per server?
17:14	<johnny> mikeshultz, you do want clients that are at least 500mhz tho
17:14	<markit> johnny: AFAIR in the wiki or with google you can find some "suggestions" about ram and Mhz
17:14	(for the server)
17:14	<johnny> and at least 96mb ram.. i'd say 128mb is good tho
17:14	and if you want local apps.. at least 256mb ram
17:14	<mikeshultz> heh, that math gives me over 12GB of RAM... whew.
17:15	<johnny> mikeshultz, you will ahve to adjust for apps in your environment tho
17:15	<markit> mmm seems audio is not working also (phonon), I've a bad feeling about my deploy
17:15	<johnny> things like flash are super terrible
17:15	markit, you're just not going to find much help for kde .. sorry
17:15	<mikeshultz> johnny: I'm not too worried about clients, just server.
17:15	<johnny> well.. if you run some apps locally t the clients.. the server will be less loaded
17:16	so you should take your client conffiguration into account
17:16	<markit> johnny: maybe from others, no? Is a wonderful desktop environment, don't think ltsp is against it
17:16	<johnny> things like flahs run much better than locally
17:16	markit, not really..
17:16	markit, post on ltsp-discuss list perhaps
17:16	<mikeshultz> johnny: What causes flash to run poorly? Trying to pipe animation over the network?
17:16	<johnny> you won't find much kde help at all in this room
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17:16	<johnny> mikeshultz, and just flash generally sucking
17:16	<mikeshultz> heh
17:16	<johnny> flash on linux and osx is terrible
17:17	<mikeshultz> Works okay on my workstation.
17:17	Outside of chromium, atleast.
17:17	<johnny> sure.. but it'll be worse over the network..
17:17	and yes.. that's just your workstation
17:17	wait til you run that many flash processes
17:17	all at one time
17:17	<mikeshultz> oh fun
17:17	<johnny> it will be noticable
17:18	markit, i'd defintiely suggest you post on the list about this stuff
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17:18	<mikeshultz> Would multiple procs do any good? Most things won't take advantage of it, right?
17:18	<epaphus> Hello guys, can openoffice be put as a local app?
17:18	<johnny> seems like near 100% use gnome here..
17:18	epaphus, sure
17:18	<abeehc> epaphus: yes
17:18	<johnny> why wouldn't it be able to?
17:18	anything can
17:18	<epaphus> shared libraries
17:18	<johnny> as long as you have enough ram
17:18	<epaphus> ah ok
17:18	<markit> johnny: sad situation. IN addition I hate subscribe to lists
17:18	<johnny> epaphus, it installs it all
17:18	<abeehc> there are gotcha's i would say
17:18	in fact
17:18	<johnny> markit, that's your fault :)
17:18	<abeehc> i've still yet to get the damned spelccheck to work with oo as localapp in 5.2
17:19	<epaphus> I can serve two types of images to types of users right.. one with openoffice the other without it.. right?
17:19	<johnny> ah.. cuz spellcheck is an external thing?
17:19	epaphus, sure..
17:19	i don't bother
17:19	<markit> johnny: too many subscriptions for everything... it'd driving me crazy
17:19	<johnny> neither does alkisg
17:19	<abeehc> seems like oo recently made spell check an extension?
17:19	<johnny> markit, well that's what you get to do .. by using kde
17:19	<abeehc> it's crappy
17:19	<johnny> either drop kde. or sub the list
17:20	that is.. if you wan an answer anytime in the next few days
17:20	the weekend is particularly bad for support in this room
17:20	oftentimes i'm the only one active
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17:29	<markit> btw, could some firewall setup "block" notification of local device plug?
17:29	<johnny> no
17:33	<vagrantc> well, that's not entirely true ...
17:33	only part of the ltspfs communications go over the already established ssh tunnel
17:33	<markit> vagrantc: any tip then? what additional port should I open? I've already many
17:34	I could try a "pass all" aproach, probably
17:38	<johnny> vagrantc, ?
17:38	it's still ssh tho right ?
17:38	<vagrantc> johnny: i don't think so...
17:39	<johnny> what is it using then?
17:39	<markit> mm in fact I've a REJECT once I plug the usb
17:39	<johnny> i don't ever recall hearing about this magic..
17:39	<vagrantc> i don't think it's actually encrypted... it just uses the LTSPFS_TOKEN for security
17:39	<johnny> reject on what port markit ?
17:39	<markit> Shorewall:fw2loc:REJECT:IN= OUT=eth0 SRC=192.168.20.1 DST=192.168.20.65 LEN=60 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=30525 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=54397 DPT=9220
17:40	seems 9220
17:40	<johnny> /me isn't sure how he hasn't heard about this magic port by now?
17:40	<vagrantc> i don't remember the details... it's in the code.
17:40	<johnny> markit, sorry.. i've been here for 3 years now.. and have never heard of htis other port to unfirewall
17:41	<markit> mm maybe is a coincidence, and is related to printer discovery
17:41	<johnny> well.. just turn off your firewall to prove it
17:41	to prove whether it is afirewall issue at all
17:42	<vagrantc> most people don't have restrictive outgoing firewalling rules...
17:43	<markit> I've not disabled the fw yet, but I've removed and re-plugged the pendrive, same "reject" in kernel.log
17:43	so, in any case, seems related :)
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17:49	<markit> damn, I've set "accept" as default policy in shorewall, but I get still reject (yes, I've re-started shorewall)
17:53	<epaphus> hey guys, what is the best tutorial on installing openoffice ?
17:53	as a local app
17:56	<markit> my foult, now shorewall is ok, but still no notification in kde
17:57	<vagrantc> kde?
17:57	<markit> vagrantc: KDE, desktop environment
17:57	never heard about it? :)
17:57	<vagrantc> markit: there's not going to be any notification in KDE, unless you configure a hook to do so.
17:57	<markit> vagrantc: ah! if I plug in the server, it works
17:57	<vagrantc> markit: does the filesystem get mounted in /media/USERNAME/FOO ?
17:58	<moldy> hi
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17:58	<vagrantc> markit: yes, because that uses entirely different mechanisms
17:58	<markit> vagrantc: how can I tell? no notification = does not ask about mounting
17:58	<vagrantc> markit: by looking in /media
17:58	<markit> vagrantc: oh, I thought was based upon a common layer for plugins.. like udev
17:58	vagrantc: on the server, you mean?
17:59	<vagrantc> it does use udev, but the thin-client's udev
17:59	markit: logged in from a thin client to the server
17:59	<markit> vagrantc: sorry, I'm lost. I'm on my workstation, and I'm logged in the server through ssh
17:59	I've also a kde desktop in a client
18:00	and a monitor in the server itself
18:00	with kde desktop too (of course)
18:00	<vagrantc> markit: are you using ltsp?
18:00	<markit> where should I look for /media?
18:00	vagrantc: yes, ltsp in the ltsp server
18:00	<moldy> my ubuntu ltsp server is sometimes running amok. it seems to be related to dbus. a dbus process is eating cpu like crazy, the system becomes unuseable, users cannot login anymore. unfortunately, i wasn't able to reproduce the issue so far. it seems to happen at random times when many people are logged in. does anyone have an idea what the likely culprits are, or how to debug this?
18:01	<vagrantc> markit: ok, so log in from an ltsp thin client to your server. kde, gnome, twm, whatever environment you want. find your way to the /media directory. because you're logged into the server, it will be the server's media directory...
18:02	<markit> it's empty
18:02	<vagrantc> markit: usb stick is plugged in on the thin client?
18:02	<markit> (I thought you were asking me to ssh in the client)
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18:02	<markit> urgh, no sorry!
18:02	<vagrantc> markit: don't overthin what i'm saying :P
18:02	overthink
18:03	<markit> :) now it's plugged, and in /media I've a subdir with my user name
18:03	and under it d????????? ? ? ? ? ? usbdisk-sdb1
18:03	strange permission mask...
18:03	<moldy> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GnomeWatchdog hm, could this help maybe?
18:04	<vagrantc> markit: yes, fuse (which ltspfs uses) by default is very restrictive... even root can't read it.
18:04	<markit> vagrantc: ok, but there are "?", never seen before
18:05	<vagrantc> markit: as the user who's logged in from the thin client?
18:05	<markit> ehm, no :) is from ssh shell I've in the server, but is the "sudo" user, not the current client one
18:06	<vagrantc> right. NOBODY except the user logged in from the thin client will be able to ready those files.
18:06	not even root.
18:06	* markit hopes vagrantc is VERY patience
18:07	<vagrantc> of course, if you su to the user, you should be able to read them.
18:07	<markit> so seems that the kernel or whatever has seen the device and has mounted it, right?
18:07	<vagrantc> correct.
18:08	and if you use the user account that's logged in, you should be able to see the files in /media/USERNAME/usbdisk-sdb*
18:08	<markit> in fact, with dolphin and going into /media/... I can open and see it
18:08	<vagrantc> right
18:08	<markit> correct
18:08	<vagrantc> seems like you need someone to implement: http://bugs.debian.org/575031
18:09	s,need,would like,
18:10	<markit> vagrantc: grep fuse /etc/group does not show the user (shows no user at all, to be sincere)
18:11	<epaphus> hey guys, how can i add openoffice to my image so it is served as a local app?
18:11	<vagrantc> markit: as the user, type "groups"
18:11	markit: it wouldn't do anything in /media/USERNAME if the user didn't have the right group
18:11	<markit> vagrantc: user "marco" is only in "marco" group
18:12	<vagrantc> markit: logged in from the thin client?
18:12	<markit> yes, I've double checked this time :)
18:12	client -> terminal -> $groups
18:12	<vagrantc> markit: permissions on /dev/fuse? ls -l /dev/fuse
18:13	<markit> crw-rw-rw- root fuse
18:13	<vagrantc> markit: what distro is this?
18:13	<markit> kubuntu 10.04
18:14	<vagrantc> looks like something has monkeyed with the permissions on /dev/fuse...
18:15	shouldn't be world-writeable
18:15	unless something's changed recently
18:15	markit: permissions on /usr/bin/fusermount ?
18:16	<markit> as user, I can't see that file
18:16	<vagrantc> most perplexing.
18:16	<markit> nor as sude
18:16	sudo
18:16	<vagrantc> can't fathom you getting anything in /media/USERNAME with stuff configured that way...
18:17	markit: this is on the server?
18:17	<markit> I suppose so
18:17	I mean, the device is plugged on the client
18:17	and /media is on the server, I guess
18:18	<vagrantc> right.
18:18	<markit> I've double checked, I've no device plugged on the server by mistake
18:19	vagrantc: are you a kde developer, by chance?
18:20	<vagrantc> markit: i will firmly say that i think people are free to make whatever choice they want... but my personal opinionis that KDE is really obnoxious.
18:20	* markit checking the dictionary
18:21	<markit> oh :(
18:24	<vagrantc> despite not liking it in the least, i am glad KDE exists, and that some people are happy with it.
18:25	<markit> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg1042848.html
18:26	is something happend to this guy also, but in old kubuntu
18:26	so wondering if no one dares use kde with ltsp or whatever
18:27	maybe they will rewrite ltsp in mono at the end ;) (just joking)
18:27	<vagrantc> gnome detects mounts in the /media directory and does things with that.
18:27	kde doesn't seem to do the same thing.
18:27	<markit> vagrantc: yes, seems just a matter of desktop environment ignoring the mount
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18:28	<vagrantc> someone wrote some hooks to get kde to show icons on the desktop, and i wrote a plugin infrastructure so they could use that... but i think newer versions of kde work very differently.
18:28	<markit> btw, how can I unmount before remove the device?
18:28	I've read something like "no more necessary" somewhere
18:28	<vagrantc> markit: wait 2 seconds, and it should be safe to just pull the stick.
18:28	<markit> but I'm not sure is a reliable info
18:29	so it does not "buffer" the writes anymore? very good
18:29	<vagrantc> markit: the server-side just looks like it's mounted. in reality, it's unmounted client-side after 2 seconds of inactivity.
18:29	<markit> (on regular kde I can write many MB and have the operation "concluded", but see usb stick blink for long time after that)
18:29	<vagrantc> yeah, don't go pulling the stick while the light is still blinking :)
18:29	<markit> ah, ok, 2 seconds after the lite, lol
18:30	<vagrantc> it's not that amazing.
18:30	<markit> hehehe, maybe I'm too tired (1.20am here)
18:30	I'm "playing" with ltsp since too many hours today
18:30	is something I've already installed, but not with this configuration
18:30	and I'm having a lot of "strange" troubles due to trivial problems I've hard times to figure out
18:31	I've to deploy this to a school
18:31	and wont them to forget about M$ crap and love the Free (libre) world
18:31	well, that's my dream :)
18:32	<vagrantc> markit: if you can figure out what triggers kde popups, i can try to write a hook that triggers it on ltspfs mounts...
18:32	<markit> I can ask in kde developers channels, hold on
18:32	<vagrantc> you've got to genuinely show that free software actually serves them better... winning people over on ideology is a hard fight :)
18:33	<markit> well, hard but longer lasting
18:33	otherwise they will ever find a "more nice" app, a brand new shinning chain
18:33	but I want them to have less excuses about features I can
18:36	<vagrantc> indeed. i'm hooked on the ideology, but so few people go for that.
18:38	<markit> vagrantc: but using the "free as in beer" argument is really a failure (and often ineffective, since they have pirated copies of whatever they need, even antivirus, you figure!)
18:39	and, to be sincere, many FOSS programs are far from good enough
18:39	I do use openoffice, for example, but I hate it
18:39	<vagrantc> markit: regarding kde, an example hook for creating icons on the desktop should be in /usr/share/doc/ltspfs/examples/kde-desktop-icons
18:39	<markit> has some trivial bu very hurting problems, so much that I've always thoght that there was a pact among sun and M$ to not fix them
18:40	<vagrantc> markit: but i think that's for older kde ... but that hook could be used as a basis when you figure out what commands are relvent in newer versions.
18:40	<markit> vagrantc: an italian kde dev told me this magic word: "hal"
18:40	<vagrantc> markit: i thought hal was on it's way out...
18:41	there was an inkling of an idea to create virtual hal devices...
18:42	if hal's how it does it... that's over my head.
18:42	<markit> translating, he replied "hal is what kde uses at the moment"
18:44	what do you mean? too troubles to make it work?
18:45	<vagrantc> if it's as simple as running a few commandline scripts, it shouldn't be too hard. but hal is a whole system unto itself.
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18:53	<markit> straight to a different problem
18:53	I would like to create a "shared" directory (like /srv/shared) where teacher and students can exchange files
18:54	but can't understand how to do it, since even if I put teacher and studends in the same group, and force (gid) files be created with that group, they are created with rw-r--
18:55	am I missing something obvious? with samba share forcing a "rw" permission for group on new files would be trivial
18:55	( vagrantc I've got an answer also from international kde dev channel: markit: this is the class you use when you want to show a notification: http://lxr.kde.org/source/KDE/kdelibs/kdeui/notifications/knotification.h#180 )
18:56	vagrantc: do you want to chat directly with him?
18:56	or me asking him to chat with you?
18:56	"markit: unless you mean the device notifier in which case you should ask on #plasma"
18:58	<vagrantc> markit: that looks like some C code or something... as i said earlier... more than i want to get involved with.
18:59	it's going to have to come from someone who actually uses KDE :)
18:59	<markit> vagrantc: the "ask on #plasma" should be the right path
19:00	(I'm asking there at the moment)
19:00	<vagrantc> markit: is it on freenode?
19:00	<markit> yes
19:00	come here too :)
19:00	s/here/there
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19:10	<patrice> i have a simple setup when i am able to have a client pxe boot to shell [BASH]. now, how do i do the following...
19:10	i want to execute a program when the client boots up.
19:10	no GUI based stuff
19:11	for example, i want the client to boot over PXE and auto launch 'top' for example
19:11	i tried RCFILE_01 but that did not work
19:11	<vagrantc> write a screen script, like /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/shell
19:12	<patrice> i tried making a test.sh script
19:12	in the /opt ...
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19:17	<patrice> i saved my script in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/rc.d/
19:18	then in lts.conf i put RCFILE = /etc/rc.d/test.sh
19:18	would that be corrent
19:18	correct
19:18	make that RCFILE_01 = ...
19:19	<vagrantc> that would just run the script, but not with a controlling terminal.
19:20	you want to use SCREEN_07=FOO
19:20	and write your script in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/FOO
19:20	<patrice> i have SCREEN_01=shell
19:20	then the RCFILE after that in [default]
19:21	<vagrantc> !distro
19:21	<ltspbot> vagrantc: Error: "distro" is not a valid command.
19:21	<patrice> FC10
19:21	<vagrantc> patrice: RCFILE is the wrong thing to use.
19:22	<patrice> hummm.
19:22	here is what i am trying to do...
19:22	i want to have a client boot and then run a custom program automatically (non gui)
19:22	<vagrantc> you should write a screen script that does what you want, and specify it with SCREEN_01
19:22	<patrice> no user interaction
19:23	<vagrantc> yes, i get that
19:23	<patrice> ok, i think i follow you
19:23	how involved is it to write a custom screen script
19:23	<vagrantc> take a look at the shell one.
19:24	<patrice> and then modify that one to suit my needs.
19:24	thanks will try that
19:24	<vagrantc> for non-gui, it's pretty simple.
19:24	* patrice thanks vagrantc for the help
19:27	<vagrantc> patrice: good luck :)
19:30	<markit> vagrantc: I've to leave, thanks a LOT
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19:30	<vagrantc> good luck
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20:15	<patrice> ok, here come my question. Where is screen script found. I looked in /usr/share/ltsp, but could not find
20:16	<vagrantc> patrice: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d
20:16	as mentioned earlier...
20:16	or optionally /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/screen.d/
20:19	* patrice digging using find / -name....
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20:45	<markit> hi, I've chrooted and tryed to aptitude update/upgrade, but it complains about Signing Key. But if I try to add the key "the usual way", complains that can't save in the home/currentuser dir (of course, /home is empty). How to solve? Kubuntu 10.04
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22:29	<milledel_> I need to disable ipv6 on my LTSP server. When I do, the clients either lock up (if they're running when I turn it off) or won't get passed the LTSP login screen. Any one have any suggestions?
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