IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 August 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:32 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 05:32 | <alkisg> Good morning
| |
| 05:33 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 05:34 | * vagrantc is about to test the overlay patches for the kernel | |
| 05:35 | * vagrantc also submitted updated patches for loopback support for initramfs-tools | |
| 05:36 | <alkisg> Phantomas and I are fixing a few things in Epoptes, to prepare for the new release...
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| 05:36 | <vagrantc> nice
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| 05:37 | any uploads i do to debian this week probably need to only go to experimental :(
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| 05:37 | major gcc transition is... annoyingly timed
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> There's no hurry, the debian import freeze for 16.04 is months away...
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| 05:39 | !alkisg-todo
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| 05:39 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) replace "kernel memtest86+.bin" with "linux memtest86+.bin", see r1516, or (#3) LDM_GUESTLOGIN=auto, or (#4) Support UEFI, or (#5) make KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES override user-defined RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES, or (#6) add forcepae, or (#7) overlayfs with workdir: (1 more message)
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> !more
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| 05:39 | <ltsp> https://lists.linuxcontainers.org/pipermail/lxc-devel/2014-October/010686.html
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| 05:40 | <vagrantc> forcepae?
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| 05:41 | instead of xnbd phantomas was looking into bcache, if i remember the name correctly?
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> forcepae is needed for some celeron m clients, they don't advertise pae but they support it
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| 05:44 | Yes bcache and dmcache, it'd be very nice to support those
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| 05:45 | Basically it would make it possible to run 10-20 fat clients on 100 mbps network
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| 05:46 | I think others here have tried it as well, but haven't submitted any code upstream
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| 05:50 | <vagrantc> is dmcache part of device-mapper?
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| 05:50 | <alkisg> I think so
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| 05:51 | * vagrantc doesn't see it in the current package | |
| 05:54 | <alkisg> # modinfo dm-cache
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| 05:54 | filename: /lib/modules/3.16.0-45-generic/kernel/drivers/md/dm-cache.ko
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| 05:54 | <vagrantc> ah, kernel module
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| 05:58 | * alkisg also wanted to check DRBD for this | |
| 05:58 | <alkisg> "Writes to the primary node are transferred to the lower-level block device and simultaneously propagated to the secondary node. The secondary node then transfers data to its corresponding lower-level block device. All read I/O is performed locally."
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| 06:19 | <vagrantc> so, testing the overlay patch, i'm getting bizarre results where i can't "echo foo > /etc/hostname" until after "touch /etc/hostname"
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| 06:20 | hrmpf
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| 06:24 | * vagrantc fires up strace | |
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| 06:40 | <vagrantc> ahhh... i needed to pull in the previous patch as well ... compiles... hopefully tests ok
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| 08:17 | <vagrantc> still having problems, but patches apply cleaner
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| 08:17 | work_alkisg: any progress with epoptes?
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I went on a long bike ride, I'm ready to tackle the epoptes bug reports now :)
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| 09:17 | So, first of all, wily couldn't shutdown properly... let me see...
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| 09:19 | !cups
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| 09:19 | <ltsp> cups: Recent cups versions have issues with the hostname, either set 'ServerAlias server' in <server>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf, or 'CUPS_SERVER="$SERVER"' in lts.conf so that it's accessed by its ip
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| 09:19 | <vagrantc> wily sounds too excitable
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> I think it's a mess, it's using 3 init systems... :D
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| 09:19 | <vagrantc> concurrently?
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| 09:20 | or you take your pick?
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> Concurrently, although some of them in "compatibility mode"
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| 09:20 | ps aux lists both systemd and upstart
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| 09:20 | upstart mainly manages user sessions, systemd mainly the system services... I hope they'll remove upstart for 16.04
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| 09:20 | <vagrantc> which one is PID 1 ?
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> systemd
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| 09:27 | * alkisg also tries ltsp-daily... | |
| 09:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the daily builds are at least building again?
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yup! thanks
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| 10:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: have you tried systemd + nbd, if shutdown there works or loops?
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| 10:06 | (if you tried in debian; in wily it loops)
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> works for me
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| 10:06 | <alkisg> with nbd?
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 10:07 | * alkisg really wonders why he's still on ubuntu... :) | |
| 10:07 | <vagrantc> at the moment, i can only test NBD in debian stretch, still working out NFS+overlayfs issues
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| 10:07 | alkisg: old habits die hard... :)
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| 10:08 | <alkisg> I think mate is a good chance to move to debian
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| 10:08 | I'll deploy it first in some schools near me, so that I can support them more easily, and if all work fine, I'll do the move...
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| 10:09 | I think Ubuntu also wants to move to snappy packaging, which I'm guessing will prove that it's not working after 5 years or so... :)
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| 10:09 | <vagrantc> i was having good luck with gnome-flashback, too
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> My main issues with gnome-flashback is the keyboard indicator+layout swithing, and the menu panels that crash 2 out of 100 times
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| 10:11 | <vagrantc> no idea on the layout switching, and haven't deployed it long-term anywhere yet
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| 10:12 | but was preparing to deploy it at the school i'm working on
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| 10:13 | <alkisg> We're on gnome-flashback currently (1000+ schools), we haven't upgraded to 14.04 mainly because of that issue, and the sshfs keyring issue which fills the whole disk in a few seconds
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| 10:13 | both of those issues are OK in 12.04...
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| 10:13 | * vagrantc hopes they're fine in jessie | |
| 10:13 | <alkisg> I think in debian, there's no keyboard indicator at all in gnome-flashback
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| 10:14 | <vagrantc> well, we're doing tmpfs homedirs, so the keyring on sshfs shouldn't be an issue
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> For 16.04 I'm thinking mate + nfs home dirs
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| 10:14 | sshfs proved to cause too many issues, security isn't worth it if things break so badly
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| 10:19 | Haha it's fun when we think we're fixing ltsp but in reality we're just filing bug reports in so many other packages..
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| 10:20 | wily terminal: ls: αδυναμία Ď€ĎĎŚĎβαĎης του asdf: Δεν υπάĎχει Ď„Îτοιο αĎχείο ή κατάλογος
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| 10:20 | <vagrantc> calling that a bug might be a bit harsh...
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| 10:25 | <alkisg> The console is using ISO-8859-15 encoding instead of UTF-8, after 15 years after we switched all distros to utf-8... what should i call that? :)
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| 10:26 | The problem is in /etc/default/console-setup, it has CHARMAP="ISO-8859-15" instead of CHARMAP="UTF-8"...
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| 10:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: could you please check this in debian? $ grep CHARMAP /etc/default/console-setup
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| 10:48 | Is it UTF-8?
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| 10:49 | <vagrantc> alkisg: in jessie
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Hrm, I can't find the commit that broke it
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| 10:50 | * vagrantc checks in stretch | |
| 10:51 | <alkisg> Thanks!
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: stretch too
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> UTF-8?
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> alkisg: UTF-8 in all
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| 10:53 | <alkisg> Yet another ubuntu-specific bug, then... :-/
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| 10:53 | Thanks
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| 10:54 | Heh, wily has console-setup 1.108, while jessie had 1.123...
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| 10:55 | * vagrantc wows | |
| 10:55 | <vagrantc> so much for ubuntu always being more current than debian
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| 10:56 | <alkisg> In some packages the .diff now is so big that they're having difficulties merging
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| 11:13 | <bojan> What are the things to do immediately if all my clients are working slow??
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| 11:13 | MEans slow performance
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> !directx
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| 11:18 | <ltsp> directx: If you want to turn off encryption to the workstation, which will speed up performance at the cost of security, you need to specify LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file. Type !docs in IRC to get a link to the current documentation
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 11:18 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 11:18 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> See those ^
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| 11:18 | fats are better, see also e.g. flash:
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| 11:18 | !flash
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| 11:18 | <ltsp> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 11:20 | <bojan> alkisg:i am having thin clients and it is all working good so far...Suddenly it is showing slow performance
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| 11:20 | and once i restarted my server it is working good
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| 11:20 | just want to know the reason for the slow performance
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| 11:21 | <bojan> IS there any log file to analyse??
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> bojan: when you have slow performance, at that point it's good to analyze it
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| 11:25 | E.g. if at that point you have 100% cpu usage, you should check which process etc
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| 11:26 | After you reboot, you can't check which process used much cpu before the reboot...
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| 11:26 | I've seen gnome-keyring, zenity and a few others causing 100% cpu due to bugs they have
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, how's your progress? i've mostly been fighting with overlayfs today
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| 12:22 | and kernel building issues related to that...
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| 12:22 | made some progress
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> The console-setup bug is in debian as well, but the debian build-iso process doesn't expose it
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| 12:22 | <vagrantc> i think the next thing i'd like to try is getting the loopback support for initramfs-tools to work with nfs
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> So I'm filing a bug report against console-setup in ubuntu, I don't know if they want to fix it there or in the iso build process...
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> get a chance to try the daily builds?
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> It generates a different /etc/default/console-setup based on LANG, if it's C or C.UTF-8 at postinst time
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| 12:23 | I booted a client and then saw that ^ issue and have been debugging it ever since... :)
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> that's sad.
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| 12:24 | C.UTF-8 is a relatively new innovation
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> (an ltsp client build with daily builds)
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Any .UTF-8, e.g. en_US.UTF-8 also produce the correct file
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> right
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| 12:24 | so it's frequently buried pretty deep?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> It affects all ubuntu CDs and installations after 14.10
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> no wonder i've never seen it :)
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| 12:42 | alkisg: how do i specify the image file to build with: ltsp-build-client --cleanup / ??
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think we automatically name it after the arch
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| 12:43 | If it was in some path, it would use the file name
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| 12:44 | E.g. mount --rbind / /some-path, and then ltsp-update-image -c /some-path, will probably name it some-path.img
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| 12:48 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 12:48 | * vagrantc would like to add a --filename option or some such | |
| 12:49 | <vagrantc> it's a good default, but a little complicated to override :)
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| 12:52 | <alkisg> $ ltsp-chroot --help
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| 12:52 | -a, --arch[=ARCH] Sets the architecture of the target chroot. Defaults vary by distribution.
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| 12:52 | That's not actually the architecture, it's the name...
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| 12:53 | There was some talk about it a few years ago, to call it "name" vs "arch", and I think "arch" was selected to match ltsp-build-client
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| 12:54 | <vagrantc> right
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| 12:54 | <alkisg> But `ltsp-update-image /opt/ltsp/i386 --arch thin-chroot` isn't really intuitive
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| 12:54 | * vagrantc wonders about ltsp-update-image | |
| 12:55 | <vagrantc> ltsp-update-image --help doesn't claim to support --arch
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> I was talking about (03:48:57 μμ) ***vagrantc would like to add a --filename option or some such
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| 12:55 | <vagrantc> but yes, --name could work, and we could set up an alias for --name == --arch
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> --filename is the --arch option
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| 12:56 | (which isn't supported by ltsp-update-image now)
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| 12:56 | So, `ltsp-update-image /opt/ltsp/i386 --name thin-chroot`? Is that intuitive?
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| 12:56 | For me, ltsp-update-image /opt/ltsp/i386 is enough, it creates /opt/ltsp/i386.img
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| 12:57 | And `ltsp-update-image /path/to/wheezy.vdi` creates /opt/ltsp/images/wheezy.img
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| 12:57 | The name only makes sense in the pnp case
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| 12:57 | So maybe that automatic name should be pnp.img? :D
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| 12:57 | <vagrantc> sure, the defaults make a lot of sense
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| 12:58 | i just want to overide it in the unusual case where i have both an NFS chroot and an image named the same thing.
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| 12:58 | <alkisg> Why don't you change the NFS name?
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> alternately, if we had ltsp-update-kernels generate different tftp dirs for the chroots and the images...
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| 12:59 | because i wanted to change the image name, but yes, that'd be easy enough.
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> It's easier to remember it, pnp==the arch, everything else ==> already has a name, so don't use the pnp one
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> i ended up manually renaming the image, which worked well enough
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> Anyway I don't mind at all if you want a --name option
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| 12:59 | It makes it harder to update it
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| 12:59 | And to use the --revert option
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| 13:00 | (the manual rename)
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| 13:01 | Hehe... the last year I think I've started trying to minimize the sentences that I write in IRC, and as a result I think it's much harder for people to make sense of what I'm trying to say...
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> i'm not sure there would be much of a need outside of development
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| 13:02 | <alkisg> I did have a problem with older chroots named i386, and pnp also named i386, where the TFTP dir then came from the chroot, not from pnp
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| 13:02 | So in that case I just deleted the chroots
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| 13:03 | Phantomas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1484101
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| 13:03 | That's what caused the silly output in the VT in your wily installation
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| 13:03 | So you can check "affects me too" :)
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| 13:04 | OK, moving on to the NBD shutdown issue...
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| 13:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, that's the exact sort of scenario where putting the tftp files in different dirs based on their source would help ... would make booting a bit more complicated
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| 13:05 | ok, i've got a patch that adds loopback support for NFS! yay.
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| 13:06 | <Phantomas> alkisg: nice, did it
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| 13:06 | <alkisg> Well, ltspd can solve all that, and serve /boot directly from the chroot or the image :D
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| 13:06 | <vagrantc> which would obsolete ltsploop in our hooks.
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| 13:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: nice!!!
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| 13:06 | <vagrantc> now if i can just get them to apply them...
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| 13:06 | so NFSIMG support should work nicely...
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: that was about not requiring /sbin/init in the nfs export?
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| 13:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, doing it in init-bottom required there being /sbin/init in the nfs export, but late in the jessie release cycle they actually used "chroot $rootmnt test -x $init", so it actually required a shell and test and aaaarg.
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> :)
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| 13:11 | <vagrantc> (the chroot call was done for systemd, because /sbin/init is a symlink that doesn't resolve outside the chroot)
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| 13:11 | so instead, i updated the loopback patch submitted in ~2008, refactored slightly, and added nfs support.
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| 13:12 | https://bugs.debian.org/468114
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| 13:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, now that we've spent all our time seeing what's currently broken, will we have time for our crazy new future plans? :)
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| 13:19 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'm not sure :-/
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| 13:19 | I think fixing the things that are broken should be first, and when we're done with it, if we have time, sure let's look at new things
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| 13:20 | :(
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| 13:20 | <vagrantc> i guess it'll be hot enough still when i get home that i can pretend to live in another timezone for a while
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| 13:20 | become a creature of the night
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 13:21 | Maybe we can close the issues now and arrange another hackfest later on... maybe at LTSP BTS...
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: as long as it's the mediterranean :)
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| 13:24 | alkisg: a bit tired of the atlantic
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> If others are coming, I'll be happy to arrange that
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| 13:25 | * vagrantc wonders if there are any others | |
| 13:26 | <alkisg> I do think that something like flexible-boot would re-trigger interest...
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| 13:37 | <dido> hi
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| 13:37 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 13:37 | <dido> some one speak spanish
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| 13:37 | <vagrantc> solo un poco
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| 13:38 | <dido> necesito ayuda con fat client
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> cual distro?
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| 13:38 | <dido> estoy haciendo rdp contra un windows
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| 13:38 | tengo un debian con ltsp
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| 13:38 | y hago rdp contra un win
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| 13:39 | ok?
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| 13:39 | <vagrantc> ok
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| 13:39 | <dido> quiero que el cliente soporte los usb
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| 13:40 | cosa que el cliente en windows no puedo
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| 13:40 | y los de debian si
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| 13:40 | estoy usando freerdp para hacer la coneccion
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| 13:41 | y lo unico que encontre es traer los recursos del server debian
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| 13:41 | pero no me sirve
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| 13:41 | ok?
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| 13:42 | alguna idea con respecto a eso
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| 13:43 | <vagrantc> usas freerdp con SCREEN_07=freerdp en lts.conf ?
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| 13:43 | <dido> |si
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| 13:44 | <vagrantc> yo no uso freerdp
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| 13:44 | <dido> :/
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| 13:45 | <dido> ok gracias igual
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> pienso que es possible...
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| 13:50 | * ogra_ notes he is seeing an amreican sitting in germany talkin spanish | |
| 13:50 | <vagrantc> naturlich
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> systemd invokes a getty only when the vt is actually switched. Saves memory, nice!
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| 13:57 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 13:58 | so disabling the extra gettys isn't really needed anymore
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| 13:58 | although maybe disabling them so someone bashing on the keyboard doesn't get them
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> So, systemd brings down networking
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| 14:08 | on poweroff
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| 14:08 | That makes it hard to shutdown when the root file system is in nbd...
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| 14:09 | vagrantc, did you say that you tried testing + nbd + systemd, and the ltsp clients there shut down properly?
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| 14:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> Hrm
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| 14:10 | * vagrantc really hopes the loopback patches get accepted into initramfs-tools | |
| 14:21 | <alkisg> Manually running nbd-disconnect works fine, so the script is probably not called at all
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| 14:24 | stgraber: what is the plan for the ltsp-client-core.conf upstart job?
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| 14:24 | Will we keep that for 15.10? Will we replace it with a systemd one?
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| 14:25 | vagrantc: what about debian, will you keep the sysvinit job, or provide a systemd one too?
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| 14:25 | * vagrantc would be interested in a systemd service or whatever | |
| 14:25 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 14:26 | <vagrantc> i don't want to completely drop support for sysvinit, so it might be a common set of scripts/functions/etc
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> I think that the main script shouldn't be distro-specific, the only thing distro-specific should be the hook that calls it
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> So, one script for start up, one for shut down, and sysvinit + systemd hooks
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| 14:44 | <dido> hola
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> Γεια χαρά
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| 14:44 | <dido> hi
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> hello
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| 14:45 | <dido> how can use my drive and usb
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| 14:45 | with debian 7.6 ltsp
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| 14:45 | in lts.conf
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> dido: pienso que installar ltspfs en el cliente chroot
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| 14:46 | pero, debian 8 es mehor
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| 14:49 | <dido> y para habilitar los discos y usb en el cliente de debian
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| 14:49 | en lts.conf
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| 14:49 | con localdev=true no me funciona
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| 14:52 | alguna idea
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> dido: puede usar el pastebin: http://paste.debian.net
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| 14:57 | dido: uso "ltsp-info" i copiar a paste.debian.net
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> RUNLEVEL is empty now with systemd + upstart compatibility
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