IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 August 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 10:29 | <knipwim> when building the client in Ubuntu, is it possible to select a specific kernel version?
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| 10:30 | <alkisg> I don't think so, but you can use --late-packages to install it
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| 10:33 | <knipwim> check, wondering if there was a plugin which i could adapt :)
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| 13:11 | <markit> hi ppl, hi alkisg
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 13:12 | <markit> alkisg: do fat clients stress much or less the network torward the server? I know the process is local, but boot and hd "image" is on the server. Do you think it worth put 2 nic in bond?
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| 13:13 | I suppose network is used less frequently, but much heavier when it is
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| 13:15 | Damianos: have you solved your issue about connecting to the server from your wife's laptop? I've seen a tutorial about the use of x11vnc
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| 13:15 | (not specific to ltsp: http://userbase.kde.org/Tutorials/Access_another_computer%27s_display)
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> markit: yes, fat clients stress the network less than thin clients. As for if bonding would make things better for you, it depends on other factors, like switches, client bandwidth/cpu etc
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| 13:17 | <markit> alkisg: the new pc have gbit, the switch is gbit, the server is gbit...
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> Damianos: you can install italc on standalone machines too. Or you can have your wife's laptop boot as an ltsp lcient
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| 13:17 | markit: how many clients?
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| 13:17 | <markit> alkisg: 16
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> Yes bonding would help then
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| 13:18 | <markit> alkisg: teacher can boot as ltsp client, be able to use italc as "server" mode and also be able to shutdown the server?
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 13:19 | <markit> "sure" is not so sure :)
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| 13:19 | for instance, in kde I have the choice if shutdown can be done (locally one setup, remote another) but everybody or root only
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| 13:19 | if I set "everyone" remote, every student can shutdown
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| 13:20 | if I set "root only" you have to assign a password to root
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| 13:20 | teacher have to change user to root, and then can shutdown, AFAIR
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| 13:21 | <alkisg> I don't understand what you're saying. You're having some problems with KDE settings and LTSP?
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| 13:21 | <markit> no if the teacher is on the server
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| 13:21 | if teacher is on ltsp client I don't know how to let him shutdown the server
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| 13:22 | now I've setup teh server to shutdown if you press poweroff
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| 13:22 | so I can tell the teacher to logout from his client, go to the server and press the button
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| 13:22 | <alkisg> You want the teacher to be logged on on a fat client, and shutdown the server?
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| 13:22 | Or thin client?
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| 13:22 | <markit> thin
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| 13:22 | (btw, how could it be done in fat?)
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| 13:23 | <alkisg> That's a policykit setting, to allow remote users to shutdown the server or not
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| 13:23 | <markit> alkisg: you mean that you can say what user can or cannot? Like "who belongs to teacher's group"?
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| 13:23 | because from KDE setting I can only choose between "everybody" and "root"
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| 13:23 | and in Kubuntu you are not root
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> Policykit is a framework that defines who can access some services, settings etc
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| 13:24 | And by default it doesn't allow PC shutdown for remote (ssh) users like ltsp thin clients
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| 13:24 | If you change that setting, then any remote user will be able to shutdown the server
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| 13:24 | Not related to LTSP at all.
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| 13:24 | <markit> every remote user? that's the problem
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> If you only want a specific user to be able to shutdown the server, look at the sudoers file
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| 13:25 | Again, not ltsp related
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| 13:26 | <markit> maybe KDE settings poorly map policykit ones, or the wording are confusing, I'll experiment further, thanks for the tips and the "right direction"
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> No, those are the policykit settings
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| 13:26 | It doesn't allow refinement (per user settings etc)
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| 13:27 | <markit> I'll have a deeper look then, thanks again
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> Check sudoers, it allows per user or per group settings
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| 13:27 | <markit> alkisg: btw, I've solved the dvi-vga video issue
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| 13:27 | <Hyperbyte> markit, how? :)
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| 13:27 | That's interesting.
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| 13:27 | <markit> Hyperbyte: well, it's depressing
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| 13:28 | with my monitor I was not able to have ksm work
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| 13:28 | <markit> and if disabled, every xorg.conf setting I've tried was not able to give me full hd resolution
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| 13:28 | the same dvi-vga adapeter on a AMD video board of a different pc worked fine with ksm
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| 13:29 | I was desperate, but since 10.10 worked fine at school
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| 13:29 | and not only 11.04 but also 10.10 did not here
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| 13:29 | I went to school and attached the pc to the "magic board"
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| 13:29 | and it simply works!
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| 13:29 | and projectom max resolution is 1024x768
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| 13:30 | so in any case also disabling ksm would have been enough
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| 13:30 | <Hyperbyte> a-ha!
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| 13:30 | <markit> but I've lost a couple of days in clueless tests
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| 13:30 | and in addition I'm a lot scared about X and xorg.conf now
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| 13:30 | i.e. I connected my monitor with dvi direct
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| 13:30 | that works fine
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| 13:31 | then added a password to root, su -
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| 13:31 | and Xorg -configure (or something like that)
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| 13:31 | that dumped a fair complex xorg.conf.new file under /root
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| 13:31 | I've copied it to /etc/X11/xorg.conf
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| 13:31 | disablet ksm
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| 13:32 | and rebooted with dvi-vga adapter ... but was not able to have more that 1280x1024 or something like that
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| 13:32 | that's really strange... I've added some modesettings lines or something like that, but nothing worked
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| 13:32 | to make it short
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| 13:33 | or ksm works, or I'm currently unable to create a xorg.conf that make it work
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| 13:33 | I've the fear that a different brand of magic board or a different model could have black screen
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| 13:34 | and I would be in big troubles then :(
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| 13:34 | Hyperbyte: btw, do you use ACL?
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| 13:34 | I need to create common directories with sophisticated policies
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| 13:35 | acl works great but only if you create directly on that directories
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| 13:35 | if teacher copies a file from his home to the shared dir
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| 13:35 | own file permissions are preserved and ruin acl ones
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| 13:36 | (that can never go beyond basic ones)
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| 13:36 | with samba you can "force" files permissions, with GNU acl seems not
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| 13:36 | wondering how a OS that is born as "multiuser" can lack such basic functionalities
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| 13:37 | sometime I'm really surprised :(
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Indeed, an easy way to force "parent owner/rights" isn't available in linux, unless you mount that dir with another file system.
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| 13:42 | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3916/
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| 13:48 | <markit> alkisg: you confirm my depression :) thanks for the link
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| 13:49 | but isn't incredible???
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| 13:49 | <alkisg> Yeah, I wonder why this "local shared folders" problem hasn't yet come up in any file system developers mailing lists
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| 13:50 | <markit> becouse true programmer don't share ;P
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> It shouldn't be very hard to implement it with the setgid bit for directories
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| 13:50 | <markit> acl can "force" creation with the right permissions
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| 13:51 | is just that if you copy a file that has "normal" permissions (acl adds to those normal ones) restrictive
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> I didn't find any real task where ACL helps me
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| 13:51 | <markit> acl don't enlarge them
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> So I've never used them. All I'm missing is the local shared folders bit, and ACLs don't help there
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| 13:54 | <markit> I read "Move it to shared folder".. what is it? a folder ubuntu creates somewhere?
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| 13:54 | oh, no my foult
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| 13:55 | * markit still sleepy | |
| 13:58 | <alkisg> In the future, I want to try autofs + bindfs, that might do it
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| 13:58 | So, one shared folder per class, automatically mounted with autofs when some student tries to access it
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| 14:00 | <markit> for me having dolphin (and konqueror) respect (impose) acl directory default permissions when copying files would be enough
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| 14:00 | I mean, that should be the right easy thing to do
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> Why are you mentioning acl? Do you do something different with those?
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| 14:01 | Or just "default linux directory permissions" would be enough?
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| 14:01 | autofs/bindfs would also work with dolphin etc
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| 14:02 | <Damianos> Hi folks....sorry but I've been away from my desk
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| 14:02 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, umask not suitable?
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: umask is per process, not per parent directory
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| 14:02 | <Hyperbyte> That's what I use at work. umask plus chmod +s on shared folders.
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| 14:02 | <Damianos> I solved my problem with italC
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| 14:02 | <Hyperbyte> True, it's set for all directories.
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| 14:02 | Not a problem for my setup though.
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| 14:03 | Why is it for yours?
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| 14:03 | <markit> alkisg: because with ACL you can manage very well groups and creation permissions and accesses, like ehm... with M$craops
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| 14:03 | <alkisg> markit: specific example from a real use case?
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| 14:04 | Hyperbyte: The desired end result is: for class a1 to have a shared directory e.g. /home/a1 where all group members will have full read/write access there, but no other groups will have access there
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| 14:04 | <markit> alkisg: well, I experimented them time ago, then I gave up but I need directories where teachers can r/w, but students only read
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: umask doesn't suffice for that
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| 14:04 | <markit> or dirs where both musth have R/W
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> markit: I do that with regular linux permissions
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| 14:04 | <markit> or other where teachers must have access and students not
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| 14:04 | etc.
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| 14:04 | alkisg: it does not work with regular linux
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> I haven't yet found a real use case where ACLs would help me in my classrooms
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| 14:05 | markit: why not? just create a "teachers" group
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| 14:05 | <markit> except if you change umask default
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| 14:05 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, why doesn't umask suffice for that?
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| 14:05 | <markit> and do a lot of nasty things
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| 14:05 | but then you have other drawbacks
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: read that link I wrote above, there are lots of pages describing why all combinations don't work
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| 14:05 | <Hyperbyte> At work I have different shared directories for different user groups. All members of the groups have read/write access in it and file permissions are done automatically.
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: bindfs works, but it's silly to have 1 mount for each shared dir
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| 14:06 | Hyperbyte: for starters, copying a tree doesn't change the owner
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| 14:07 | <Hyperbyte> mhm
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> So the others don't have write access to that dir
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| 14:07 | *moving
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| 14:08 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, yeah, that's not handy. Not a good solution, but maybe you could do something with auditd in this regard?
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Is auditd some daemon?
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| 14:08 | <Hyperbyte> Track changes to files inside the shared directory, and correct permissions if needed?
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> It sounds much more hackish than using bindfs
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| 14:08 | <Hyperbyte> Heheheh
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> bindfs corrects the permissions on copy, not after a while
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| 14:09 | <Hyperbyte> Hackish is my middle name, you should know that by now. =D
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 14:09 | Hyperbyte: can autofs unmount a dir when it's no longer used?
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| 14:24 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I believe it does automatically, on the timeout specified in the config.
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| 14:24 | <alkisg> Sounds like the way to go then, autofs + bindfs
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| 14:26 | <Hyperbyte> bindfs == mount --bind ?
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> No, (04:42:19 μμ) alkisg: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3916/ ==> http://code.google.com/p/bindfs/
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| 18:58 | <Bronze> hi, I'm looking for a tool that allows one person, like a teacher, to let others "see" their desktop, or to see a presentation, over a network connection. X11 on both ends. something simpler that teacher-tool, (which is a great tool but overkill for this maybe)
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| 18:59 | I think I saw tools like this mentioned in here, years ago, but can't remember their names
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| 19:11 | <Hyperbyte> !italc
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| 19:11 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: italc: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=ITALC_in_a_ThinClient_environment.
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| 19:11 | <Hyperbyte> That's the one you want I think. :)
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| 19:21 | <Bronze> Hyperbyte: thank you.
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| 19:23 | <Hyperbyte> You're welcome. :)
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| 19:23 | Where are you from, and how are you using LTSP, if I may ask? :)
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| 19:26 | <Bronze> Hyperbyte: Boston area, I installed some ltsp LANs some years back. early 2000's
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| 19:28 | <Hyperbyte> Wow, that must've been quite an early version.
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| 19:28 | <Bronze> 3 something, iirc
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| 19:28 | so much better today.
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| 19:28 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 19:31 | <Bronze> 3.X was very useful. Its just sovery nice to have LTSP integrated with various distro's.
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| 19:31 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, LTSP integration with Ubuntu rocks. :)
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| 19:34 | <Bronze> "sovery" heh. "a person is 'sovery' when they are starting to sober up, just a little, after some heavy drinking, and begin to realize what a total nincompoop they were... " ;-)
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| 19:36 | <Hyperbyte> Ithinkyourspacebarisbroken. :)
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| 19:47 | <Bronze> Hyperbyte: nah, its not a hardware issue, its a wetware issue. :)
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| 19:53 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, a PEBKAC problem! ;-)
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| 19:53 | <Bronze> ayup.
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| 19:54 | I've thought about removing that Keyb to computer control link, but I don't have anything to replace it with yet... ;-)
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