IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 January 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:14 | <map7> I'm trying to boot off a new ltsp server and I'm getting the error 'Error: Socket failed: Connection refused', any hints?
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| 05:24 | <sunson> can epoptes do windowed broadcast of screen?
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| 06:21 | <muppis> Trying to boot LTSP with modified win32-installer :)
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> muppis: did you find our binary?
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| 06:25 | !win32-loader
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| 06:25 | <ltsp> alkisg: Error: "win32-loader" is not a valid command.
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| 06:26 | <muppis> alkisg, nope. Idea just came my mind yesterday and started trying it with this http://goodbye-microsoft.com
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> muppis: I've tested it a couple of years ago, it worked, then I send a patch upstream, it was accepted, and we have a multilingual binary with the result in http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader
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| 06:27 | <muppis> alkisg, ok. I'll test that tonight.
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> !learn win32-loader as win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader - (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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| 06:31 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> A greek page that describes it is in http://ts.sch.gr/tech/win32-loader - maybe someone can use google translate as a starter, and put it in some wiki
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| 06:33 | The microsoft kb for editing the boot loader order and timeout is here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/289022
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| 09:34 | <alkisg> Yoe_: good morning, is there any way for the .diff files created by `nbd-server -c` to persist across reboots?
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| 09:36 | <Yoe> alkisg: I suppose I could implement that, but I don't think that'd be a good idea
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| 09:36 | alkisg: the server has to do a lot of bookkeeping for the copy-on-write to work well, which means it's a fair bit slower
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> Yoe, what I want is to be able to give something like a VM to the teachers attending a seminar, so that they've root access there, they can install apache/mahara etc
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| 09:37 | <Yoe> alkisg: it's probably better to do a prerun script that copies something off a master copy instead
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> So if the starting image is e.g. 10 Gb, the diff will be e.g. 1 Gb
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| 09:37 | <Yoe> or perhaps use copy-on-write in a lower layer, like LVM
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| 09:37 | yeah, I get your point
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| 09:37 | <alkisg> I wouldn't want to waste 10 * 20 teachers == 200 Gb on the server, I'd prefer 10 + (1*20) = 30 Gb
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> And I suppose it'd be better than using ltsp fat clients AND a VM on top of that
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| 09:38 | <Yoe> I could perhaps do something like 'cowstyle=persistent'
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> (which would again use snapshots for disk reasons)
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| 09:39 | Yoe: the seminar is in 2 months... any chances of having it ready till then? If not, I'll try the following...:
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| 09:40 | ...to export the 10 gb image read-only, and to create on the fly *static* 1 Gb images for each client, and export them read-write,
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| 09:40 | <Yoe> alkisg: not a chance, I'm afraid
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> and combine them to the client with aufs
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| 09:40 | I guess that would work, and it would only require an initramfs script
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| 09:40 | <Yoe> alkisg: the next two weeks, I'm busy with FOSDEM
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> Thank you Yoe :)
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| 09:40 | Ah, cool!
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| 09:41 | <Yoe> alkisg: the weeks after that, I could start thinking about it, but I can't get it ready and tested in one and a half month
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> Yoe: btw, for adding images on the fly, can I tell nbd-server to re-read its configuration without losing its existing connections?
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| 09:43 | My idea is, when a client boots, some initramfs script will pass the client mac to a daemon listening on my server, and that daemon will create an 1 gb read-write file for that mac
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| 09:43 | (if it doesn't exist; else it'll reuse it, completely static per client/mac)
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| 09:43 | <Yoe> alkisg: yah, that's something on my long-term TODO
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> Ouch. So, another idea, is to map from mac to ip, and use "%s" on the file string for nbd-server...
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| 09:44 | "%s" would allow for "on the fly" generated images, right?
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| 09:44 | <Yoe> the problem is, re-reading the config file without leaking memory, and then figuring out which sockets to open and which to close is non-trivial
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> So my daemon would see the ip and mac (ips may be dynamic, that's why all the fuss), it would create an 1 gb file for the mac, and symlink the ip to it,
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| 09:46 | and nbd-server would use the file pointed by the ip symlink (when parsing the "%s" in the file string)
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| 09:46 | Would that make sense?
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| 09:48 | <Yoe> alkisg: sec, I broke a customer's network
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> np
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| 09:49 | :)
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| 10:04 | <Yoe> there
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| 10:04 | gotta love redhat... not
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| 10:05 | first, I do 'ifdown bond0.20; ifup bond0.21' to bring up the new Internet link, but that seems to break stuff in ways I didn't expect
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| 10:05 | i.e., a kernel oopsing etc
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| 10:05 | so I have to reboot that machine.
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| 10:06 | which takes ages, because redhat slapd on a machine that uses nss-ldap takes half an hour (!) to start
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| 10:06 | since it wants to check permissions of every config file it owns, at every startup, for god knows why
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| 10:07 | but it can't very well do that without checking the ldap directory, which isn't running yet (obviously)
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| 10:07 | so then you get exponential backoff, which means that every lookup of a UID or GID or some such takes 90 seconds, at least
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| 10:08 | morons
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| 10:08 | oh well
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| 10:19 | alkisg: so, as to your question: yes, if nbd-server tries to export a file that isn't there, then you get an error message back
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| 10:19 | unless you specify the 'create' option or some such (since 2.9.24 or thereabouts)
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| 10:20 | don't recall what the exact name of that option was, but at any rate, the default is not to create a file
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| 10:23 | * alkisg was afk to get the kids from school, reading... | |
| 10:25 | <alkisg> Yoe: but I can create files on the fly from the "prerun" script, right?
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| 10:29 | <Yoe> alkisg: that's the whole point of the prerun script, yes :-)
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| 10:30 | i.e., if it doesn't work, that's a brown paper bag bug :-)
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| 10:33 | <alkisg> Cool :)
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| 10:34 | <Yoe> (also see nbd-server(5), it mentions that...)
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| 11:54 | <piet> anybody here, who is familiar with build-client procedure?
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| 11:56 | I'm pretty new to this whole stuff and I'm trying to set up a small office net with ltsp.
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| 11:57 | <knipwim> distro?
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| 11:57 | <piet> I#m setting up itsp on an Oneiric-Server (Ubuntu)
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| 11:59 | the server was build - like it should be - without any desktop features . . .
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| 11:59 | <andygraybeal> piet, i think you need a desktop on that server
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| 11:59 | if not, i'd like to know how :)
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| 12:00 | <piet> and I guess - this is the way its supposed to - after build-client there is only a terminal after login . . .
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| 12:01 | <andygraybeal> yes you need to build a desktop on the server
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| 12:01 | sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop (or whichever desktop you prefer)
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| 12:02 | <piet> is there a possibility to install the desktop under the chroot only - or do I have to build it on the server itself?
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| 12:02 | <andygraybeal> i do not know enough, maybe someone else here does
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| 12:04 | <piet> its because I think setting it up under the server would be a security breach and not that good to server performance isnt it?
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| 12:04 | <andygraybeal> i think yoru theory sounds good.
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| 12:04 | piet, this is how i approached it w hen i started too..
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| 12:05 | well not started.. but a while into it when i started again.
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| 12:06 | <piet> yeah, let me hear Your stuff . . .
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| 12:06 | <andygraybeal> i don't understand what you mean
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| 12:07 | i don't think i can help you, i bet any number of people here can though
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| 12:07 | i try to help but fail miserably often :)
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| 12:07 | <piet> <this is how i approached> sounds like as if You want to tell me like You did it . . .
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| 12:08 | <andygraybeal> aah no, i did approach it like you did.. but i ran into the problem where.. i was told that i needed a desktop on my server.
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| 12:09 | that is all
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| 12:09 | nothing more than i've mentioned previously
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| 12:09 | and maybe you know a way around it, so i felt like i wasn't being helpful
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| 12:10 | <alkisg> (02:02:11 μμ) piet: is there a possibility to install the desktop under the chroot only - or do I have to build it on the server itself?
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| 12:10 | ==> there is, if you use fat clients
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| 12:10 | !fatclients
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| 12:10 | <ltsp> alkisg: fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 12:11 | <alkisg> Are your clients good enough for that? How much RAM do they have?
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| 12:11 | <andygraybeal> aah no way! awesome!!!
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| 12:11 | totally bad ass.. your amazing alkisg
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| 12:13 | <andygraybeal> i so need to virtualize and test that now
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| 12:13 | <piet> I already read a howto about that and I think they would be (about 1-2GB mem), but Im not deep enough into the whole stuff to see why this should work. Can You pls explain the backgrounds a little further . . .
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> piet: thin clients == the apps run on the server
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| 12:14 | So the desktop environment needs to be installled and up and running on the server
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| 12:14 | It's not trivial to do that in a chroot, i.e. to have a global chroot with dbus and everything up and running for all clients, so that is done on the server root , /
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| 12:15 | fat clients == the server disk is used, actually a chroot for root plus a networked /home, but the apps run locally
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| 12:15 | The server is only used for authentication (via ssh) and for a shared /home
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| 12:16 | So it doesn't need to have a graphics environment installed in its root file system. It only needs that in the chroot, which the clients will get
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| 12:16 | That's about it, for more details read the docs
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| 12:16 | <piet> Im starting the whole thing brand new, so what do You think is the smoothest way for a newby?
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> It depends on your requirements
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| 12:17 | What programs will your clients be using?
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| 12:17 | <piet> Fat sounds quick but complicated?
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> No, it's not much more complicated than thins
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| 12:18 | <piet> office, multimedia, internet . . .
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> you can easily watch 12 full screen youtube videos with fat clients without straining your network or server cpu
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| 12:18 | You can't even watch 1 full screen youtube video with thin clients
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| 12:19 | <andygraybeal> go fat if you got the memory on the clients! i got 1GB - 1.5GB in all my clients, i'm going fat this morning.
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> So for casual web+office use, fats are usually the best choice, if your clients are up to it
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| 12:19 | <andygraybeal> i do wish i knew that i could have a desktop-less server, but this will be when i upgrade to virtual ltsp server in august :)
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| 12:22 | piet, thank you for asking :)
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| 12:23 | <piet> I'm a litlle confused in the moment: How does the build-client script knows that it has to pack a desktop-environment into the paket?
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| 12:23 | I mean in the fat client . . .
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| 12:24 | does there has to be a complete installation already on the client?
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| 12:25 | I know stupid questions for somebody who is in the whole thing already . . .
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| 12:28 | does <piet, thank you for asking :)> means something like shut up enough silly questions? ;-)
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| 12:41 | <piet> everybody gone to dishes? So thank You for Your help . . .
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| 12:43 | <andygraybeal> piet, i was getting coffee nad had to run to my car to get a tax form!!!
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| 12:43 | bur your gone
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| 13:03 | <_UsUrPeR_> andygraybeal: I had noticed you tried to get hold of me over the weekend
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| 13:04 | <andygraybeal> _UsUrPeR_, yea man, just wondering about firmware updates; i don't recall the model number at the moment.
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| 13:04 | i can look it up
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| 13:04 | 1412 i think, but i am not sure
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| 13:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> I think it was the 1420
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| 13:04 | <andygraybeal> okay, yes then, that sounds correct
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| 13:05 | i coudln't find the firmware version on it.. but maybn ei'm an idiot :)
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| 13:05 | and i hope you don't mind me contacting you in this channel
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| 13:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> not at all
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| 13:08 | that's what I'm here for
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| 13:09 | unfortunately, there is no firmware or BIOS upgrades for the 1420. The unit's been discontinued :/
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| 13:09 | what is the problem you are having?
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| 13:09 | <andygraybeal> you know, it just acts strange.. turning on
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| 13:10 | i don't even remember it's so strange and happens so infrequently.. i was simply wondering if there was a firmware upgrade i could run that would magically fix all my ailments :P
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| 13:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> Hmm... I am not too familiar with any booting problems those clients had.
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| 13:11 | <andygraybeal> yea, this is fine.
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| 13:11 | i wouldn't worry about it. it's so infrequent that the women who uses it doesn't mind it.
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| 13:11 | i think she prefers a quircky computer
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| 13:11 | er, atleast in her mind :)
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| 13:12 | <_UsUrPeR_> heh
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| 13:12 | at least she considers it a computer
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| 13:12 | <andygraybeal> she loves how small it is :)
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| 13:12 | and she lvoes that it sits behind her monitor
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| 13:12 | er, mounted behind her monitor
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| 14:16 | <andygraybeal> so i must have done something incorrectly, with that 'fat-client' install. i've done this before in a testing vm. this time i tried it on my live ltsp server (not vm) - it's already running as a thin client server, so i deleted the /opt/ltsp/i386 folder (after backing it up) then i made the changes to /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf as mentioned on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients (i remarked out the LATE_PACKAGES a
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| 14:16 | nd DEBCONF_SEEDS, for simplicity for now), i removed the compression line. then i did the 'sudo ltsp-build-client'; for whatever reason, my machines are still booting as thin clients :(
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| 14:16 | i must have done something wrong
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| 14:17 | any advice? it's too late in the day for me to try anything at this point.. everyone that needs to use the computers is arriving to work
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> grep '' /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp*
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| 14:31 | andygraybeal: ^
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| 14:32 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, okay
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| 14:32 | andy@buddleia:/opt/ltsp/images$ grep '' /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp*
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| 14:32 | /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp_chroot:LTSP_CHROOT=/opt/ltsp/i386
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| 14:43 | <andygraybeal> alkisg, any ideas?
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| 14:43 | user stupidity :P i've gotten it to work before on a VM, so i'm not worried..and i should just wait till i get that up and running
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| 14:43 | i thought i'd give this a whirl though since i've been wanting to do it for a while.
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> andygraybeal: that's not a fat chroot then
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| 14:51 | <andygraybeal> aah can you tell me what i did incorrectly?
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> It doesn't have the ltsp_fat_chroot file there
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| 14:52 | Dunno, maybe put your ltsp-build-client.conf file to pastebin?
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| 14:52 | <andygraybeal> ah no i don't see that.
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| 14:52 | okay, i will do so
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| 14:53 | i'm an effing idiot
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| 14:53 | :q
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| 14:54 | sorry to bother you, i will try this again tomorrow.. i edited the wrong file
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| 14:54 | thank you very much for your handholding
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| 14:54 | it is appreciated.. i just hate it when i'm stupid
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> np :)
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| 17:46 | <andygraybeal> khildin, 1.8 peice of cake
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| 17:47 | <khildin> :)
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| 17:55 | <andygraybeal> khildin, are there courses i can download and import into the system? something generic?
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| 17:56 | <khildin> http://lmgtfy.com :P
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| 17:58 | You can look for SCORM packages: http://moodle.org/mod/data/view.php?id=7198
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| 17:58 | <andygraybeal> aah scorm
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| 17:58 | cool
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| 17:58 | i have been googling, btw :)
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| 17:58 | not much comes up
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| 17:59 | <khildin> be aware that chamilo supports scorm 1.2 and not scorm 2004
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| 17:59 | <andygraybeal> okay, thankyou
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| 17:59 | is 1.2 newer than 2004?
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| 17:59 | <khildin> no
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| 17:59 | but 2004 doesn't add too much I think
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| 17:59 | <andygraybeal> ok
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| 18:04 | nobody is talking in #chamilo
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| 19:42 | <sacarde> hi
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| 19:43 | how can I control X resolution of a client LTSP ?
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| 19:44 | <alkisg> !lts.conf | echo sacarde:
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| 19:44 | <ltsp> sacarde: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 19:44 | <alkisg> XRANDR_MODE_0 there
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| 19:55 | <sacarde> ok
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| 19:55 | thanks
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