IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 November 2006 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:29 | <mwright1> Hello, just wandering if anyone has tried LTSP with an INtel Duo 2 quadro processor (quad core)
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| 01:29 | and how it performed?
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| 02:57 | <Kamping_Kaiser> i havent, but that would be ...um. fast, is my gues
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| 08:34 | <cliebow> jammcq:Hey!
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| 09:50 | <jammcq> cliebow: hey
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| 11:43 | <fgiraldeau> About lbus : I can't find it in ubuntu packages. Is it missing?
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| 11:45 | Well, I'm a bit confused, because without it, I can't figure out how the signal is sent to server with a local device is inserted.
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| 11:46 | <cliebow> did you install thr server side packages from ltsp?
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| 11:47 | or is this t\ltsp-server-standalone which doesnt quite yet support localdevs
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| 11:49 | <McPolo> It seems to be that better still install ltsp from ltsp.org than use distro's own cludges.
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| 11:52 | <Gadi> fgiraldeau: hey!!
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| 11:53 | in Muekow, lbus is not used, bacuse a socket connection is made through the ssh connection in ldm
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| 11:54 | this is why straight X + localdev is not supported in Ubuntu Muekow atm
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| 11:54 | Scotty is working on a new system that will work for both, using Xatoms
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| 11:57 | <moquist> Gadi: hey!!
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| 11:58 | <Gadi> hey hey!
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| 11:58 | where you at?
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| 11:58 | <moquist> 1 meter to the front and left
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| 11:58 | <Gadi> 1 meter? geesh --> you new englanders
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| 11:59 | <moquist> it's the international influence of all these developers...
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| 11:59 | <jammcq> hey all
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> norm!
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| 11:59 | <jammcq> :)
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> the usual, Mr Peterson?
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| 12:00 | <jammcq> the usual
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| 12:00 | * jammcq doesn't remember most of the norm'isms | |
| 12:10 | <laprag> so the conference is good so far?
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| 12:11 | <jammcq> laprag: hey, how's it going in houston?
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| 12:11 | <laprag> oh you know, boring stuff
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| 12:11 | wondering when i can go home
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| 12:11 | <jammcq> have you fallen asleep in any meetings lately?
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| 12:11 | I was doing that yesterday
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| 12:12 | <laprag> heh, no, not lately :)
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| 12:12 | did anyone make any notes of the wiki structure we wrote on the board in SF?
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| 12:12 | <jammcq> did we have a structure?
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| 12:13 | <Gadi> no beer and no tv makes jammcq something something
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| 12:13 | <laprag> at least a set of items to include. that is a start
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| 12:13 | <jammcq> hmm, I didn't save that
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| 12:14 | but I did create a wiki page that included the links that we thought of
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| 12:14 | <laprag> well, mark's testiculating should keep you guys awake :)
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| 12:14 | <jammcq> http://wiki1.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WebHome
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| 12:14 | <laprag> jammcq: is it on the wiki1?
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| 12:14 | ah ok
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| 12:14 | <jammcq> laprag: the stuff on the left side of the screen is pretty much what was on the list
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| 12:15 | <laprag> right
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| 12:15 | wasn't there something about friends and partners?
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| 12:16 | <jammcq> yeah, we had that on the paper
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| 12:16 | I think we were gonna put that under 'Community'
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| 12:16 | but i'm not sure
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| 12:17 | <laprag> So basically you want the left column to be the TOC for the front page of the wiki?
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| 12:18 | <jammcq> umm, not necessarily the entire TOC
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| 12:18 | in fact, there's probably too many things on the left now
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| 12:18 | we should consolidate somewhat
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| 12:19 | 'Mailinglists' might be better on the 'Getting involved' and 'Support' pages
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| 12:19 | i'm open to suggestions on that
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| 12:20 | <laprag> and perhaps documentation under support.
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| 12:20 | <jammcq> perhaps
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| 12:20 | <laprag> is Hardware a link to diskless?
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| 12:20 | disklessworkstations.com
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| 12:20 | <jammcq> it's a link to a page that includes things like 'Diskless' and 'Symbiont' and other "LTSP Certified" places
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| 12:21 | <laprag> right
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| 12:21 | <jammcq> and also, we should have a 'Hardware Compatibility' guide
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| 12:21 | <laprag> umm ok
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| 12:22 | Lunchtime :)
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| 12:22 | <Gadi> my ears were ringing
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| 12:33 | <cliebow> Scottie:i see you hiding over there
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| 12:33 | <jammcq> cliebow: hey
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| 12:34 | <cliebow> having fuyn?
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| 12:34 | not as much fun as bts id bet 8~)
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| 12:34 | <jammcq> cliebow: how was the flight home?
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| 12:35 | <cliebow> it was good..except in Minneapolis they werent going to let me back thru security x\cause the boarding pass had a couple transposed letters
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| 12:36 | <jammcq> heh
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| 12:36 | I saw that on the original itinerary
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| 12:36 | figured it wouldn't be a problem
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| 12:36 | <cliebow> i got sent to Continental desk where they whisked mr thru pilots security checkpoint..
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| 12:36 | and all was well..
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| 12:36 | <jammcq> cool
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| 12:37 | <cliebow> but i was sweatin bullets there for a minute
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| 12:37 | <jammcq> sure
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| 12:37 | stuck in MN
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| 12:37 | <cliebow> i got home around 10 pm
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| 12:37 | <jammcq> wow, long day
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| 12:38 | <cliebow> yeah..i was smart to get a nights sleep on Friday instead of doing the jazz bar
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| 12:39 | i cant get this image of some poor bastard sitting in that toilet on market...surfing the internet with trasks laptop
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| 12:39 | 8~)
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| 12:39 | <jammcq> heh
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| 12:39 | <cliebow> what is he doing at mtv? shmoozing 8~)
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| 12:40 | <jammcq> yeah, he's loving it here
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| 12:40 | <cliebow> heh
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| 12:45 | <sbalneav> McPolo: Seeing as how we're adopting Ubuntu's "cludges", you might want to re-think that statement :)
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| 12:46 | <McPolo> sbalneav: Ofcourse, and ofcourse distro's own packages are usually better, package handling is not mixed up with random self maked software.
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| 12:46 | * jammcq must have missed some talk of cludges | |
| 12:48 | <cliebow> or is it kludges
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| 12:48 | <fgiraldeau> it was launchtime for mee too
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| 12:49 | <McPolo> sbalneav: And as I've read something what's coming, it seems to be very nice.
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| 13:33 | <rstory> hello again. I'm still having problems with the X screensaver overriding my kde screensaver...
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| 13:33 | <rstory> i used xset to disable the x screensaver, but something is turning it back on... not sure if it's ltsp or fedora..
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| 13:34 | if I set the timeout to something large (say 600), then query it every few seconds, I see it change to 0 for about a minute, then change to 70 (the original value)
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| 13:35 | <rstory> anyone else seen anything like then? google isn't being very helpful..
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| 13:39 | <rstory> hmm.. found someone else w/the same problem (http://www.filibeto.org/pipermail/sunray-users/2006-June.txt), but no solution..
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| 13:47 | <jammcq> rstory: maybe it's in the bios
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| 13:48 | <Gadi> rstory: what desktop are you running?
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| 13:48 | <rstory> kde
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| 13:49 | <Gadi> hmm... and its not a kde setting that's doing it?
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| 13:49 | <rstory> jammcq: hmmm.. would seem odd for the bios to take a new value, then reset it.. but i'll check it out..
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| 13:50 | Gadi: no, my kde screensaver kicks in, the shortly thereafter the X one kicks in.. either with the X logo, or a blank screen..
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| 13:50 | <jammcq> true
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| 13:50 | <Gadi> have you tried uninstalling Xscreensaver?
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| 13:51 | <rstory> no.. interesting idea...
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| 13:52 | <fgiraldeau> Hi there
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| 13:52 | <jammcq> rstory: what version of LTSP are you using?
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| 13:52 | <fgiraldeau> And so, how does the meeting is going
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| 13:53 | <rstory> jammcq: 4.2
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| 13:54 | <fgiraldeau> Gadi: I wonder what is Xatoms...
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| 13:54 | <rstory> Gadi: but 'locate Xscreensaver' isn't finding it, and it's not in my path. :-/
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| 13:54 | <ogra> rstory, try without the capitalized X :)
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| 13:54 | <jammcq> rstory: try all lower-case
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| 13:54 | :)
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| 13:55 | <ogra> :)
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| 13:58 | <mocker> rstory: You can also try adding 'xset s off' to the user's .Xclients
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| 14:02 | <sbalneav> fgiraldeau: X atoms are "names" of properties that can be applied to windows.
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| 14:03 | Properties can be used to either hold well-defined attributes that programs, or the window manager use, or, arbitrary bits of information that applications wish to track.
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| 14:06 | <fgiraldeau> And so, the message that a local device is available may be send through X11, is it?
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| 14:06 | <sbalneav> fgiraldeau: That's what I'm working on over the next two weeks, yes.
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| 14:07 | <fgiraldeau> Cool. And where is the code?
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| 14:08 | Well, I've been working on mille-xterm for a long time, and there are so many differences
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| 14:08 | I'm trying to learn how does that it has been implemented into Ubuntu.
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| 14:09 | <sbalneav> fgiraldeau: Code's on my laptop :)
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| 14:09 | * jammcq sure hopes that sbalneav is doing backups | |
| 14:09 | <jammcq> fgiraldeau: hey, how are you doing?
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| 14:09 | <fgiraldeau> I'm fine, thanks
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| 14:10 | Hope you too!
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| 14:10 | <ogra> fgiraldeau, in ubuntu we have an ssh tunel for the X display ... that offers us t have a communication socket alongside ...
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| 14:10 | s/offers us t/enables us to/
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| 14:11 | <fgiraldeau> Well, I saw that, but there is also XDMCP that *may* be supported, and I don't see how does the EPSPEAKER variable is set, for example.
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> jammcq: rsync'ed to home earlier today :)
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| 14:11 | <fgiraldeau> Not everything is working with gdm, for example.
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| 14:11 | <jammcq> sbalneav: cool. with the way laptops are dying around us, it's good to back it up
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| 14:11 | <ogra> fgiraldeau, XDMCP isnt supported in ubuntu yet ... you can run XDMCP but will be missing features
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| 14:11 | <fgiraldeau> Ok, that's right.
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> And that's the bit I'm working on.
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| 14:12 | <jammcq> sbalneav: in fact, eHarrison is keeping his bottle of water on the floor, to prevent any more problems
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| 14:12 | <sbalneav> :
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| 14:12 | :)
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| 14:12 | <ogra> we'll fix that during this development cycle (even ubuntu will continue to default to ssh)
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| 14:12 | <sbalneav> brb, gotta test a logout.
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| 14:12 | <fgiraldeau> For that reason, there are scripts that are launched by Xession, that sets the ESPEAKER variable. Isn't a good choice?
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| 14:14 | <fgiraldeau> I will give another example of such a tricky thing : setting XMMS to use esd
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| 14:14 | <fgiraldeau> Well, we have to set it in the user's home directory
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| 14:16 | <fgiraldeau> But, that's the gory details :)
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| 14:17 | What I would like to do is to integrate for the next release of Ubuntu : the loadbalancer.
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> fgiraldeau: what services do you loadbalance?
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| 14:18 | <fgiraldeau> Application servers, to redirect the user to less loaded server based on the load, memory usage and such.
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| 14:19 | <Gadi> is that a client process or a server process?
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| 14:20 | <fgiraldeau> There is an agent, that runs on every application server, and a server that harvests values and calculate optimal application server for the next client
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| 14:21 | <Gadi> and the server runs on the client?
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| 14:21 | <fgiraldeau> The client basicaly does a get on the server to obtain the ip of the optimal server
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| 14:21 | <Gadi> hmm.... have you thought of using SNMP as the agent?
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| 14:22 | it should provide all of the bits you need
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| 14:22 | <fgiraldeau> It could be, but we had to write custom mibs for connected users
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| 14:22 | <Gadi> so you *did* use snmp?
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| 14:23 | <fgiraldeau> No, at this time the agent is a python daemon
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| 14:23 | <Gadi> ah
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| 14:23 | why do you need to know about connected users?
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| 14:23 | <fgiraldeau> A XML file define the variables that can be poken
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| 14:24 | <Gadi> shouldnt CPU/memory/load suffice?
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| 14:24 | <fgiraldeau> This is realy empirical, there is no scientific calculation that reflect choices.
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| 14:25 | <Gadi> I have some other load balancing code that (a product of some work with moquist), that deterministically distributed connections to the app server based upon client MAC address
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| 14:26 | perhaps we can enhance it by combining actual load metrics
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| 14:26 | there is a more fundametnal question, tho
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| 14:26 | <fgiraldeau> you mean randomly choosen servers into a list?
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> well, the way this code works is:
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| 14:27 | you provide a list of servers
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| 14:27 | <fgiraldeau> I think I saw it already
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> the client uses a modulus of its MAC address to determine which server to connect to
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| 14:27 | and if that server is down, it goes to the next on the list
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| 14:28 | <fgiraldeau> It's simple and it could be done like that too
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| 14:28 | <Gadi> one nice thing about it is that any given thin client will always connect first to a particular server
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| 14:28 | even tho the connections are randomly distributed
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| 14:29 | one question that has come up in the past is:
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| 14:29 | <fgiraldeau> And you can repeat the same server twice if it were twice the power of the others
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| 14:29 | <rstory> well, renaming xscreensaver seems to have worked.. oddly enough, running xscreensaver-demo (per the screensaver man page) and disabling the screensaver created a .xscreensaver, but didn't have any effect.
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| 14:30 | anyhoo, my kde screensaver has now been runing for several minutes.. thanks for the help!
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> if you base your load balancing on load at time of *login*, does it do much good over time, as the load may change dramatically during user sessions and become unbalanced
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| 14:31 | <jammcq> worst case, if things feel slow to the user, they can log out, and log back in again
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| 14:31 | quicker than rebooting a windows box when it gets slow :)
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| 14:31 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:31 | I think the prevailing widom is:
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| 14:31 | it may not make sense to load balance based on some complicated formula of load
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| 14:32 | because the decision will only affect things at login time
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| 14:32 | <Gadi> but....
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| 14:32 | <fgiraldeau> I give you one example : if a server is starting to swap, it should not be returned anymore
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| 14:32 | <Gadi> if you could just ensure that you've distributed the connections fairly easily,
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| 14:32 | <Gadi> you've got most of the benefit
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| 14:32 | and from there, you should try to load balance the processes themselves
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| 14:32 | rather than the sessions
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| 14:33 | fgiraldeau: ah
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| 14:33 | that is a good example
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| 14:34 | <fgiraldeau> Gadi: Process migration is not my goal for loadbalancing application server... It would be cool, but I will wait Xen and virtual machine migration for that
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| 14:34 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:34 | agreed
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| 14:37 | <fgiraldeau> I think that the loadbalancer is a great piece of code, and is a candidate to be integrated.
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| 14:37 | Maybe I should create packages for Ubuntu and Debian, to make it mainstream?
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> cool
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| 14:38 | that'd be great
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| 14:38 | you should prolly create a project in Launchpad
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| 14:38 | <fgiraldeau> And so, It would be possible for everyone to test it
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| 14:38 | Can I create a new project myself in that?
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> yup
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| 14:39 | first you need to register
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| 14:39 | then, there's info on the Code page of how to get started
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| 14:39 | * Gadi has been learning the ropes recently, as well | |
| 14:39 | <fgiraldeau> it's done : https://launchpad.net/people/francis-giraldeau
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| 14:41 | I will create a product, is that ok?
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| 14:42 | <Gadi> sure
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| 14:42 | <fgiraldeau> ltsp-loadbalancer ?
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| 14:42 | And I may create a page on the LTSP wiki
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| 14:43 | And for you, writing a SNMP backend? :)
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| 14:43 | kidding :)
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| 14:44 | <Gadi> heh
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| 14:44 | sounds good
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| 14:44 | <fgiraldeau> well, that's make sens
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| 14:44 | <Gadi> if you take out the need for "connected users", I think you only need an snmp frontend ;)
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| 14:45 | <fgiraldeau> The next big component is the configurator, that's like the symbiot workstation manager
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| 14:45 | <Gadi> hmmm
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| 14:46 | perhaps we can merge ideas from your configurator, the SWM, and ogra's ltsp-manager
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| 14:46 | <fgiraldeau> You can centralize the configuration of terminals with this component
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| 14:47 | I hope, because we are all trying to manage those simple key=values
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| 14:47 | <ogra> Gadi, ltsp-manager is not for managing connections though ... thats what student-control-panel is for
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| 14:47 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:47 | he's talking about a "configurator"
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| 14:47 | <ogra> ah, right
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| 14:48 | fgiraldeau, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/
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| 14:48 | <fgiraldeau> ltsp-manager purpose is to present an easy interface for the lts.conf I think
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| 14:48 | <ogra> right
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| 14:48 | but also to the dhcp config and whatever els might come ...
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| 14:48 | *else
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| 14:48 | i.e. syslog
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| 14:49 | <fgiraldeau> well, the configuration I tell about is about the same thing
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| 14:49 | <ogra> right ...
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| 14:49 | <fgiraldeau> The difference is that terminals register themselves into it and the get their configurations.
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| 14:49 | That way, you can group terminals based on the location or hardware type
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| 14:49 | <ogra> do you have any VOIP capabilities ?
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| 14:50 | we will likely have some discussion rounds about ltsp-manager the next days
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| 14:50 | you could listen in and participate to the discussions ...
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| 14:50 | <floydwilde> Does anyone know any X settings I can throw in lts.conf to make a viewsonic vg700 lcd work?
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| 14:50 | <fgiraldeau> Great, I will setup my box for that
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| 14:50 | <ogra> floydwilde, ubuntu ?
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| 14:50 | (or edubuntu)
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| 14:51 | <floydwilde> edubuntu, it works but low resolution
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| 14:51 | <ogra> oh207, i see you are in #edubuntu as well ... sorry, i'm not monitoring all channels today due to being on the conference
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| 14:51 | s/oh207/oh
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| 14:51 | <fgiraldeau> It could be realy interesting, because the ltsp-manager is realy sexy
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| 14:51 | <ogra> floydwilde, set the right parameters for X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH for your monitor
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| 14:52 | fgiraldeau, thanks :D
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| 14:52 | <floydwilde> ok
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| 14:52 | <ogra> floydwilde, another option would be to have a static xorg.conf that is known to work for that model
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| 14:53 | <fgiraldeau> ogra and Gadi: It could be interesting to integrate the large scale and distributed aspect
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| 14:54 | Schedule for meeting tomorow : is it California timezone?
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| 14:56 | <floydwilde> I think I read that I could point specific clients to a static xorg.conf in lts.conf, is that correct?
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| 14:56 | <Gadi> yes
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| 15:00 | <floydwilde> do you need quotes around the horzsync and vert numbers?
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| 15:01 | <ogra_> you can define it in lts.conf with the XF86CONFIG_FILE option
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| 15:02 | it needs a full path relative to /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 15:03 | <fgiraldeau> I need to go, thanks a lot and have a nice day
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| 15:03 | comme back soon
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| 15:03 | <floydwilde> woo hoo it works
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| 15:06 | * efra_away is away: I'm out to lunch | Sali a comer | |
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| 16:28 | <g333k_work> Hi, I have latin american keyboards, but I cant use the characters that appears with AltGr+<Key>, like @, why?
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| 16:44 | <moquist> cliebow: hey
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| 16:45 | <moquist> cliebow: I need new copies of your remapping and printer-adding scripts; my laptop HDD died and I lost the ones I had. :(
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| 16:55 | <moquist> cliebow: hi
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| 17:16 | <moquist> cliebow: ping ping
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| 19:23 | <amit> hi guys
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| 19:24 | any one there have tried ltsp4.2 on ubuntu
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| 19:24 | ???
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| 19:30 | hellooooo
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| 19:30 | anyone there
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| 19:30 | ???
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| 20:05 | <dberkholz> how'd the get-together this weekend go?
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| 20:11 | <ace> amit ?
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