IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 November 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:42 | <vagrantc> hrm. apparently "local -" as used in ltsp-update-image doesn't work if run as bash.
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| 02:19 | also present in update-kernels
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| 03:32 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, after fixing those bashisms, i figured i'd best test some things with bash...
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| 03:32 | http://bugs.debian.org/693496
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| 03:32 | was the result.
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| 03:32 | <alkisg> Hey vagrantc... /me looks...
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| 03:33 | <vagrantc> so what's "local -" supposed to do? bash doesn't like it.
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| 03:34 | <alkisg> man sh => The only special parameter that can be made local is “-”. Making “-”
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| 03:34 | local any shell options that are changed via the set command inside the
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| 03:34 | function to be restored to their original values when the function
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| 03:34 | returns.
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| 03:35 | * alkisg checks if that's posix compliant and what's bash'es view on that... | |
| 03:35 | <alkisg> We can just restore the flags we change with set, if we don't find a compatible way to express that
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| 03:36 | <vagrantc> and "local - var1 var2" does the same thing, plus defining local variables?
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| 03:37 | <alkisg> Right
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| 03:38 | posh complains about "-" as well
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| 03:43 | vagrantc: we can store the current flags with "flags=$(set +o)" and restore them with "$flags"
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| 03:44 | Seems to work in dash, bash, posh
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| 03:44 | <vagrantc> whee.
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| 03:45 | sure seems like a strange use of "local"
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| 03:45 | i guess it makes the flags local...
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| 03:45 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 03:46 | <vagrantc> seems we only use it in ltsp-trunk in those two places.
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| 03:47 | <alkisg> True, I couldn't find it elsewhere, and not in ldm-trunk either
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| 03:47 | * vagrantc also checked ltspfs-trunk | |
| 03:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you got time to commit it?
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| 03:48 | <alkisg> Sure, and thanks for catching this
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| 03:48 | <vagrantc> was hoping to upload the bashism fixes tonight, but figured i'd better test that it doesn't break bash :)
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| 03:50 | <alkisg> vagrantc: in ltsp_config, we have some "set -a", "set -f" that we restore to +a / +f
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| 03:50 | Do you think it'd be worth it to save/restore flags there as well?
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| 03:53 | <vagrantc> i.e. if it was already "set -a" then "set +a" is not so good?
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| 03:54 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 03:55 | I don't think that's the case anywhere, but it might be so in the future... ?
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| 03:55 | <vagrantc> might be a good thing to do... might also drive us crazy :)
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| 03:55 | * alkisg remembers having a hard time on 20_fat-clients because of the `set -f` state there set by ltsp_config | |
| 03:56 | <vagrantc> right
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| 03:56 | * vagrantc wonders if overlayfs will ever make it to the mainline kernel... | |
| 03:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: my test case suggessts different behavior with bash and dash setting it the way you were proposing
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| 03:57 | * alkisg wonders if `set -f` is needed in update-kernels, or if he put it there before switching to using `find` | |
| 04:01 | <alkisg> r2323, no, you put both of them at the same commit
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| 04:02 | <vagrantc> might be worth using the long-hand set options ...
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| 04:02 | <alkisg> Eh hmm I think that was a copy of some function I proposed to you though so `set -f` might still not be needed... meh, it looks like I'll have to actually read the code... :P
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| 04:03 | Line 61, ok, it's needed
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| 04:04 | (05:57:51 πμ) vagrantc: alkisg: my test case suggessts different behavior with bash and dash setting it the way you were proposing ==> pastebin?
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| 04:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: paste.debian.net/210040
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| 04:06 | if i understood you right
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| 04:06 | who knows, though, maybe it's just a difference of whitespace
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| 04:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc: paste.debian.net/210040
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| 04:09 | Breaks on posh only, I'm checking it more..
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| 04:12 | This one also displays the diff... doesn't look good: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1364161/
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| 04:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: may be using echo causing you problems :)
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| 04:20 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no, I just asked in #bash, silly mistake, the problem is in calling `$flags`
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| 04:20 | That's a "multiline" command in bash, it won't work like this... maybe with eval
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| 04:31 | <alkisg> (06:28:51 πμ) Riviera: alkisg: local isn't POSIX, find's -printf isn't POSIX, sort's -V isn't POSIX.
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| 04:32 | * alkisg is thinking that specifying #!/bin/dash would make things much easier :P | |
| 04:44 | <vagrantc> it's probably an option
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| 04:45 | altthough i vaugely recall a "dash not /bin/sh" lintian warning...
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| 04:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: that the best I can think of, right now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1364205/
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| 04:48 | *that's
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| 04:48 | posh sets some "verbose" flag there, but it shouldn't do any harm
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| 04:48 | <vagrantc> explicit mention of local is in debian policy
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> The next better solution would be to rewrite all the code so that it doesn't depend on any shell's options state
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| 04:49 | But I think for now, using `eval "$flags"` a couple of times is not a bad compromise...
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| 04:52 | <vagrantc> the last couple years have involved very clever, but harder to read code.
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| 05:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: in ltsp-update-image, is run_cleanup likely to be called more than once?
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| 06:00 | i.e. in a state where the union mounts aren't configured?
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| 06:03 | just wondering why it doesn't detect the union type sooner... then it might be easier to actually support a split /boot
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| 06:03 | (yes, i'm chasing the aufs monster again)
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| 06:38 | <vagrantc> i think i finally got it...
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| 06:38 | it can certainly be improved, but as a proof of concept...
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| 06:48 | <alkisg> (back)
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| 06:51 | <vagrantc> yay! it works.
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| 06:51 | <alkisg> what was the problem?
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| 06:54 | <vagrantc> aufs hides sub-mounts, so all the rofs sub-mounts (noteably /boot) weren't visible in the aufs mountpoint.
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| 06:54 | <alkisg> But didn't we have code to mount all submounts as well?
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| 06:55 | <vagrantc> they get mounted, but you actually need a separate aufs mount for each
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| 06:57 | and the key point which baffled me for hours, was that i had to mkdir -p in the cow in order to have something to mount on top of...
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| 06:59 | it can certainly be improved, but i'll push what i have.
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| 07:03 | dunno if i can get this into wheezy, though it may be the last place it's useful...
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'm looking at ltsp-update-image, line 114... so aufs doesn't like mount --bind there, and needs an aufs submount?
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| 07:07 | vagrantc: with aufs submounts, if ltsp-cleanup e.g. deletes something in the submounted /boot dir, will it get deleted from the real /boot dir as well?
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| 07:07 | <vagrantc> don't think so
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| 07:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: can you pastebin the diff for what you have for me to take a look? I'm curious on what was needed to make it work...
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| 07:09 | <vagrantc> it's basically /tmp/foo/i386 (an aufs of /tmp/foo/cow and /tmp/foo/rofs) and then mount /tmp/foo/i386/boot (an aufs of /tmp/foo/cow/boot and /tmp/foo/rofs/boot )
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| 07:09 | alkisg: committed locally, should i just push? :)
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 07:10 | But it sounds to me that the cow part should come above (after) the /boot part
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| 07:10 | I.e. that now deletions in submounts will be permanent
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| 07:11 | <vagrantc> no different than if it were a single filesystem
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| 07:12 | only the cow layer is writeable.
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| 07:12 | <alkisg> OK, access denied instead of actual deletions then, still not good
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| 07:12 | * alkisg tries some aufs commands manually... | |
| 07:13 | <vagrantc> it's virtually the same code as the main mount, just with something mounted on top ... ?
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> Right, so that top mount will get the filesystems writes instead of the cow getting the writes
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| 07:14 | So the writes are no longer temporary, they're either "access denied" if the top mount is read only, or permanent
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| 07:14 | (at least if I understood the whole aufs/overlayfs logic correctly)
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| 07:14 | <vagrantc> i think your test is different than what i've done.
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> I didn't try anything yet, trying now...
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| 07:16 | <vagrantc> in your previous setup, there was /tmp/foo/i386, and any writes to the overlayfs/aufs mount would happen only on the cow
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| 07:16 | the only difference here is /tmp/foo/i386 now has a similar setup at /tmp/foo/i386/boot
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| 07:17 | so i guess you can't remove the whole dir...
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| 07:17 | but all the files under it
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| 07:18 | * vagrantc had to exclude /var/cache/approx in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-update-image.excludes | |
| 07:18 | <vagrantc> doh.
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> I guess we could rearrange the code a bit so that it goes like this:
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| 07:23 | 1) create the tmpfs, 2) mount the submounts inside it either with mount --bind for overlayfs or with aufs, and 3) then mount the cow
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| 07:24 | *merge them, I mean, either with overlayfs or aufs
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| 07:25 | vagrantc: wouldn't that ensure that the tmpfs is on top of the submounts, even for aufs?
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| 07:25 | (and we'd only need one get_mounts call in that case)
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| 07:26 | <alkisg> Also I think we can drop the tmpfs completely and just use some dir /tmp as is
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| 07:27 | (I had to drop it in similar code in some other project because it has a size limit that depends on the server RAM)
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| 07:37 | <vagrantc> yeah, we could probably use a tempdir
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| 07:37 | we're not accessing lots and lots of files
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| 07:37 | but aufs doesn't merge across mountpoints...
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| 07:38 | 23:23 < alkisg> 1) create the tmpfs, 2) mount the submounts inside it either with mount --bind for overlayfs or with aufs, and 3) then mount the cow
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> I don't see the problem, aren't you doing the same thing now but with the opposite order?
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| 07:39 | <vagrantc> no, i'm creating entirely separate aufs mount points
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| 07:40 | but there is definitely some reordering that could be done so you only need one get_mounts call.
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| 07:40 | it's mainly 3 i'm questioning how it'll work with aufs
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| 07:41 | <alkisg> Just mount it over the same mount point, chroot, with rw?
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| 07:41 | <vagrantc> this stuff hurts my head :)
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| 07:42 | but i finally managed to get my separate /boot partition use-case working with aufs
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| 07:42 | so i'll sleep on that.
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> btw why was /boot needed for nbd anyway?
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| 07:43 | <vagrantc> ltsp-update-kernels pulls the kernels from the NBD image
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 07:43 | <vagrantc> which results in... no kernels
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> OK, good night, I'll do some manual testing and if I find something good I'll push it
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| 07:44 | <vagrantc> it could just pull them from the server's /boot, but it only highlights one small issue
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| 07:44 | i.e. separate /usr or /var is not unheard of
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| 07:45 | a separate /home is not really a big deal, since we purge all that anyways
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> get_mounts skips /home anyway
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| 07:46 | <vagrantc> well, thanks for taking a poke at my proof of concept :)
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| 07:47 | and if we could figure out a smallish, innocuous patch for the "local -" in ltsp-update-image and update-kernels, that'd be great. hopefully i can upload sunday or monday. didn't do as much testing today as i had planned.
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| 07:48 | spent a lot of time fighting with my infrastructure :(
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| 07:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so aufs can take any number of dirs? Could we stick them all in a single command?
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| 07:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: tried that, and it "works", except you have no way of specifying that /boot needs to appear at /boot, not at /
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| 07:49 | <alkisg> Ah, ok
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| 07:50 | <vagrantc> i might actually start using some ltsp-pnp stuff at freegeek... we'll see.
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| 07:51 | anyways, have fun #ltsp!
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| 14:54 | <croydonaccessibl> hello everyone
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| 14:55 | could some one please give me some advice on a problem ive got with a new server ?
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| 15:02 | I have been setting up another LTSP. I have upgraded to a new Server, new gigbit switch even new patch cables. i have tried Ubuntu 12.04.1LTS installed LTSP and i couldn't get the LTSP to work as it should. I downloaded Edbuntu 12.04.1LTS and that has got a fully working LTSP already setup.When i run the "use from DVD" all works as it should. i get a LTSP up and running i can even boot my Terminals from it. albit very slow and not
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| 15:02 | much on there desktop. but its working. i can even get out on the internet. I used this for over a week like this testing and all. I installed said OS and all was ok untill i try and use the internet. the USB NIC said that its found a connection but nothing can use it or get out to the net... including update. i can not install any apps or look at websites. i can not even look at local webserver (on my LAN). It is as if the USB NIC
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| 15:02 | is not working at all. I did a LSUSB to see if ubuntu has found it is has. I booted from the DVD and did another LSUSB and it had the same details but i am able to get out on to the web when booting from DVD. I have changed the ports even direct to the router to see if this has any fix... but no.Not sure what to try next. Has anyone had a problem like this before ?
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| 15:08 | <edubuntu_keiffee> hi all
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| 15:22 | <edubuntu_keiffee> anyone out there
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| 16:04 | <jesse__> Can anyone help me with ltsp problem
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| 16:05 | I have one server with Edubuntu that won't boot on local network only
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| 16:17 | <ltspuser_83> how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users?
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| 16:18 | how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users gnome?
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| 16:21 | can anyone help me?
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| 16:22 | how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users gnome?
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| 16:23 | <ltspuser_83> can anyone help me? how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users gnome?
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| 16:29 | can anyone help me? [14:22] <ltspuser_83> how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users gnome?
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| 16:29 | can anyone help me? how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users gnome?
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| 17:30 | <knipwim> !ask
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| 17:30 | <ltsp> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 17:44 | <lee> at least a full 24 hours =)
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| 17:51 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
| 17:54 | <knipwim> but monday for sure :)
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| 19:59 | <ltspuser_29> hello got a problem with loggin in the gdm of ltsp, loggin in in the console works perfectly, but using the command startx gives a failure
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| 20:18 | Parker955 is now known as Parker955_Away | |
| 20:19 | <ltspuser_83> can anyone help me? how to lock wallpaper and some programs for users gnome?
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| 22:17 | Parker955_Away is now known as Parker955 | |
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