IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 October 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:23 | <ninou> hi
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| 07:30 | <jammcq> g'morning friends
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| 09:30 | * sutula returns jammcq's good morning, since nobody else will :) | |
| 09:31 | * ogra is swamped in final release tests for ubuntu ... | |
| 09:31 | <ogra> morning jammcq
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| 09:31 | :)
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| 09:59 | <Stonekeeper> hi. I've got my first ltsp install here. It seems that i need to configure an nbd-server config. Is there a URL or a guide on how to do this? many thanks.
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| 10:00 | <johnny> Stonekeeper, unlikely..
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| 10:00 | it should already be configured on ubuntu
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| 10:00 | and no other distro "requires" nbd
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| 10:01 | <Stonekeeper> interesting, it's blank
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| 10:01 | from what i've read nbd > nfs?
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| 10:01 | <johnny> what's blank?
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| 10:01 | <Stonekeeper> the config
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| 10:01 | <johnny> what config?
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| 10:02 | <Stonekeeper> ah, nm, it's booted anyway. we needed to update the chroot environment
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| 10:02 | sorry for bothering you!
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| 10:35 | <ninkendo> anyone have any success with running a vostro 200 as a client in ltsp?
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| 10:36 | it was kernel panicking for not being able to find any network cards (it's an intel e1000), and so I built the driver from source from the latest version from intel's website...
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| 10:36 | and it looks like that worked, but now I get dropped to a busybox promt after it's unable to mount a root filesystem
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| 10:37 | (after like a 5 minute delay in boot that appears to be associated with trying to find the nbdroot server)
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 10:38 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> Hey jammcq
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| 10:38 | 7 more sleeps :)
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| 10:41 | ninkendo: What server OS are you using?
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| 10:41 | Also, what version of LTSP?
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| 10:42 | <ninkendo> sbalneav: hardy, version 5
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| 10:42 | it looks like the busybox prompt thing is on all hardware now, so I've rolled back to an earlier kernel/initrd
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| 10:43 | I'm going to try and use an older version of the intel driver... there's some people on the ubuntu forums who have reported this, and said it was fixed with the 7.6.5 version of the driver: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=552080
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| 10:44 | <sbalneav> Did you use the mkinitramfs tools to rebuild the initramfs?
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| 10:50 | <ninkendo> sbalneav: yeah
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| 10:50 | at the busybox prompt, `modprobe e1000` shows the new version and copyright information
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| 10:50 | so I know it's built in properly
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| 10:50 | but then calling "ifconfig -a" shows only lo, no eth0
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| 11:58 | <cliebow> jammcq:how would you branch if an array is empty in perl?
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| 11:59 | <Stonekeeper> I'm getting a really long delay between pressing logout and getting the logout option dialog in ubuntu. Anyone know anything about this? thanks.
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| 12:02 | <vagrantc> Stonekeeper: is gnome-power-manager installed?
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> there was a bug in debian, and i think in ubuntu at some point, causing weird issues delaying logout...
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| 12:04 | the workaround was to start an application from the gnome menu.
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| 12:07 | <Nubae> didja guys get your free copies of crossover?
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| 12:09 | * ogra wonders why he should | |
| 12:09 | <Nubae> cause u can :-)
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| 12:09 | free stuff is always useful
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| 12:10 | <ogra> free as in beer ... pfft ... that actually only makes sense with beer :P
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| 12:11 | <sbalneav> Stonekeeper: I found it was the system Dbus that was off in the reeds. I restarted the dbus, and it worked.
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| 12:12 | <Nubae> ogra: u don't game at all?
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| 12:12 | <ogra> Nubae, i got an Xbox :) the only things MS does well are gaming consoles and input devices :)
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| 12:12 | <Nubae> xbox has no crysis
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| 12:13 | <johnny> i doubt crossover plays crysis well..
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| 12:13 | <Nubae> yeah kinda blows my point... but still
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| 12:13 | <ogra> well, i have a first gen XboX ... it doesnt have most games ... but was paid for by MS ;)
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| 12:13 | <johnny> regular wine does enough
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| 12:13 | <Nubae> its a year contract, and within a year it will play crysis
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| 12:13 | <johnny> i don't need crossover..
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| 12:13 | if it ain't in wine..
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| 12:13 | it'll be there eventually
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| 12:13 | <Nubae> well, its just easier to use
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| 12:14 | bottles instead of hours spend configuring
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| 12:15 | <johnny> isn't wine-doors supposed to that?
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| 12:15 | <Nubae> it doesnt quite do what crossover does, but works similarly yeah
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| 12:15 | * ogra prefers sauerbraten if it comes to games on linux | |
| 12:15 | <Nubae> I dont play much, but crysis is amazing
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| 12:15 | so much fun to play with a couple friends lanwise
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| 12:15 | <ogra> but since i only play about once a year i dont really care
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| 12:20 | <Stonekeeper> sbalneav: thanks. I'll try that!
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| 12:20 | <sbalneav> My kids play Warcraft 3 under Linux w/crossover. I usually either play Warzone 2100, Wesnoth. Or, if I'm in the mood, I re-play portal through for the 500'th time on the X-bawks
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| 12:20 | That game never gets old for me.
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| 12:22 | <Stonekeeper> sbalneav: nah, didn't work. just killed the mouse ;)
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| 12:22 | <Nubae> portal is cool
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| 12:23 | half life 2 wasnt bad either
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| 12:25 | <sbalneav> I just like shooting portals in the ceiling and floor and watching myself fall :)
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| 12:25 | That just never, ever gets old.
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| 12:25 | <Nubae> lol
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| 12:25 | <Stonekeeper> i'm addicted to tremulous
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| 12:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> have you had a chance to play the portal prequel?
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| 12:26 | oh, also: World of Goo
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| 12:26 | <johnny> warcraft3 works fine without crossover sbalneav
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| 12:26 | <sbalneav> "So you found me. Congratulations. But despite all your violent behaviour, the only thing you've managed to break so far... is my heart."
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| 12:26 | <johnny> been doing it for over a year
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| 12:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 12:27 | <ogra> did anyone ever play hacknoid ?
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| 12:27 | it ws a default included in IRIX
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| 12:27 | <Nubae> arkanoid clone?
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| 12:28 | <ogra> a 3D GL variant of breakout/arkanoid, yes
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| 12:28 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm
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| 12:28 | <sbalneav> Yeah, I know it plays under plain wine, but I really think what Crossover's doing with the mixed Free/Commercial model is great. It's a fantastic model, plus, codeweavers has done some super work for Legal Aid in the past, so I always buy the latest version of crossover, if for no other reason than to support a busines that I see is doing good work.
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| 12:28 | <ogra> you move your paddle 3 dimensionsl at the bottom of a cube
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| 12:29 | <Nubae> sbalneav: plus they just did that lame duck thingy...
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| 12:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> kind of like powerball for the NES? With the powerglove? :)
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| 12:29 | * ogra never played NES | |
| 12:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> :O
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| 12:29 | * Nubae reminisces over zelda and zelda 2 | |
| 12:30 | <Nubae> those were games...
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| 12:30 | <ogra> pong !
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| 12:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> marble madness
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| 12:30 | <Lns> double dragon 2 !!!!
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| 12:30 | <ogra> pong !
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| 12:30 | <Nubae> heh
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| 12:30 | <ogra> unbeaten
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| 12:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> kid icarus?
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| 12:30 | <Nubae> new zealand story
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| 12:30 | <ogra> pong !
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| 12:30 | :)
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| 12:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> :)
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| 12:31 | I think the earliest I can recollect is not pong, but probably adventure for the Atari
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| 12:31 | and river raid
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| 12:31 | <Nubae> frogger
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| 12:31 | * Lns used to play Ms. Pacman & Donkey Kong on C=64 | |
| 12:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> pole position
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| 12:31 | <ogra> frogger !! yeah
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| 12:31 | * sbalneav remembers dumping quarters into the PacMan machine at the mall during lunchours in high school | |
| 12:31 | <ogra> though i had pong nefore my VIC 20
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| 12:31 | *before
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| 12:32 | <Nubae> my first computer was a spectrum
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| 12:32 | 128k!
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| 12:32 | <ogra> pfft
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| 12:32 | <Lns> hehe
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| 12:32 | <ogra> VIC20, 3.5k :)
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| 12:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> mine was an Apple IIe Laser! :|
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| 12:32 | <Lns> go commodore 64!
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| 12:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> I wish I had gotten a commodore
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| 12:32 | <Nubae> amiga was the shit though
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| 12:32 | still have 2 of them
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| 12:32 | <sbalneav> My first computer was a ZX-81 I built from a kit, with 1K of ram.
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| 12:32 | <ogra> i had a self soldered 16k extension board later
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| 12:33 | <Lns> Nubae: you should ask vagrantc about putting debain on it ;)
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| 12:33 | <Nubae> that works? really?
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| 12:33 | <ogra> sure
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| 12:33 | <sbalneav> Then I got into C= computers (Vic, 64, +4, C16, 128) didn't get an amiga though
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| 12:33 | <ogra> 68k powerpc
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| 12:33 | <sbalneav> got into pc's at that point. First was a PC clone
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| 12:33 | <Nubae> yeah with 2 floppy drives
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| 12:34 | no hard disk
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| 12:34 | * Stonekeeper had an aquarius | |
| 12:34 | <Stonekeeper> with burger time
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| 12:34 | <Nubae> and an acorn
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| 12:34 | <Lns> back then, hard disks were commonly known as 3.5" floppies :p
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| 12:34 | <ogra> the first PC clone i saw was about 10000,- deutschmarks
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| 12:34 | no way for a student to ever pay that
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| 12:34 | <Nubae> in school we had bbc computers...
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| 12:34 | learned basic on that
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| 12:34 | <Stonekeeper> *remote
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| 12:34 | <sbalneav> BBC Micro FTW!
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| 12:34 | <Stonekeeper> muhuhh
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| 12:35 | best.command.evar on bbc micro
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| 12:35 | <sbalneav> I always wanted one of those, but I couldn't get one in Canada
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| 12:35 | They were supposed to be awesome.
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| 12:35 | <ogra> ebay might have them now :)
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| 12:35 | <sbalneav> They were 6809 based, right?
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| 12:35 | <Nubae> yeah people loved doing adventure games on them
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| 12:35 | <Stonekeeper> CAVE
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| 12:35 | <sbalneav> The ZX81 had a Z80
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| 12:35 | <Stonekeeper> we played CAVE on bbcs in school
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| 12:35 | <ogra> yeah
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| 12:36 | <sbalneav> and C was 6502
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| 12:36 | <ogra> i always wnated a zx81
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| 12:36 | <Nubae> yeah me too
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| 12:36 | <ogra> but didnt get one
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| 12:36 | my parents got me a VIC and a datasette
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| 12:36 | <sbalneav> lol the datasette
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| 12:36 | <Nubae> heh, the colored bars and freaky sounds
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| 12:37 | <Stonekeeper> blearh, udev is trying to connect to ldap pre-network setup. wtf...
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| 12:37 | <sbalneav> The Zx81 was trippy loading from tape
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| 12:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> datasette = cassette tape, correct?
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| 12:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> I remember using an Atari that had one of those
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| 12:38 | <sbalneav> http://www2.b3ta.com/heyhey16k/
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| 12:38 | The best video you'll watch today, guarenteed.
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| 12:39 | <ogra> datasette remonds me ... my GF bought a netbook last weekend ... lots of software came with it ... all on CDroms :P
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| 12:40 | (indeed the netbook doesnt have a CD Rom ...)
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| 12:40 | the greatest was that it had PowerDVD (even with a sticker on the box)
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| 12:41 | <Nubae> lol
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| 12:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> Anyone remember Archon?
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| 12:41 | <ogra> sometimes you start questioning the sanity of marketing depts.
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| 12:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> I wish someone would make a new version of that
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| 12:41 | <sbalneav> Sometimes?
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| 12:42 | <ogra> heh
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| 12:42 | * ogra declares it beer'o clock | |
| 12:43 | <sbalneav> http://isitbeeroclock.com/
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| 12:43 | Apparently, it's the same time here
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| 12:43 | <ogra> :)
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| 12:53 | <cliebow> yippee!!
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| 13:31 | <warren> ogra: vagrantc, stgraber: Please see my post to ltsp-developer list. I am moving ldminfod to ldm-trunk later today.
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| 13:31 | <ogra> ugh
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| 13:31 | why?
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| 13:31 | that makes packging quite complicated
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| 13:32 | <stgraber> ogra: hmm, I actually wanted to split ldminfod to another binary package, so it's fine for me :)
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| 13:32 | <ogra> ok
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| 13:32 | your call
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| 13:32 | <stgraber> ogra: for ltsp-cluster we want ldminfod on our app servers but we don't need all the other ltsp-server things (nbd, squashfs-tools, tftp, ...)
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| 13:32 | <ogra> i usually refuse to depend on anything server side and lose all flexibility
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| 13:33 | stgraber, but please make sure it still works without ldminfod
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| 13:33 | up to now all you need is an ssh server serverside
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| 13:33 | <stgraber> ogra: yeah, it works fine without it but better with it :)
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| 13:34 | <ogra> right, thats fine
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| 13:34 | but i want people to be able to use i.e. a slackware server with ssh installed if they like to as app server
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| 13:34 | <stgraber> sure
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| 13:34 | <warren> the ldm implementation isn't complete yet
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| 13:35 | it doesn't search the server for Xsession if ldminfod didn't tell it the location
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| 13:35 | but that's the goal
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| 13:35 | <ogra> well, that should be easily addable by an rc script
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| 13:35 | <warren> yeah
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| 13:35 | <ogra> if i werent rewriting the gui atm i'D look at it
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| 13:36 | but i want to focus on one thing to get it implemented properly and my ltsp time is very limited
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| 13:44 | <ogra> warren, do you make sure the install bits for all other inetd's get properly copied as well ?
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| 13:45 | * ogra cant remember if we had specifc setups upstream or only in the ostinst scripts of the package, but if there are any please dont miss them | |
| 13:45 | <ogra> *postinst
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's just handled in postinst
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| 13:45 | <ogra> oki
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| 13:45 | then i wont complain :)
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> so that part of the postinst will need to be moved to the ldm-server package as well
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| 13:46 | <ogra> just wanted to make sure nothing is lost
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| 13:46 | indeed
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| 13:46 | but thats packaging work :)
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> bascially, it works just as good as it did before (i.e. hard-coded client-side paths) but it will respect Xsession passed via ldminfod
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| 13:46 | <ogra> well, the rc script should be really trivial
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> actually, it will prefer the Xsession passed via ldminfod, falling back to the old stuff
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| 13:47 | <warren> ogra: each packager has to deal with their own inetd
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> i couldn't figure out where to hook it in using rc.d ... so i didn't bother.
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| 13:47 | <ogra> warren, right, i was just confused because you described it so detailed in your mail
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| 13:48 | and couldnt remember where we did it in ubuntu/debian
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| 13:48 | <warren> i'm upgrading my laptop, bbl
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| 14:21 | <nicoAMG> Hello...
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| 14:24 | <nicoAMG> I'm setting up a Ubuntu system as LTSP server. The system is using the generic Linux kernel. Can i use the server kernel instead ? I'm reading at: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/preparing-to-install.html#intro-server-differences
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| 14:24 | Any advice?
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| 14:28 | <ogra> nicoAMG, use the alternate desktop CD in any case, you need a desktop server side to log in to ... but then you can easily install the linux-server package
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| 14:28 | you will definately need it if you want to have more than 3G in your server
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| 14:30 | <nicoAMG> ogra, thank you... i'm installing the linux-image-server kernel package right now
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| 14:36 | <babyhuey> where do i set the default window manager at? i cant find the place
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| 14:36 | i have to select it everytime i log in
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| 14:36 | or it goes to "last" which does nothing
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| 14:37 | johnny has left #ltsp | |
| 14:37 | <ogra> babyhuey, depends on your distro
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| 14:37 | <babyhuey> ubuntu server 8.04
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| 14:38 | <ogra> sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager
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| 14:39 | select the oe you want
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| 14:39 | *one
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| 14:39 | <babyhuey> No alternatives for x-session-manager.
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| 14:41 | <ogra> what kind of session do you tra to select then ?
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| 14:41 | *ry
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| 14:41 | properly integrated ones will install the alternative
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| 14:42 | <babyhuey> i just want it to boot blackbox and run a program right at boot
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| 14:42 | right at wm load*
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| 14:42 | <ogra> well, you can always either put a ~/.xsession file in place
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| 14:42 | or create a proper session file
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| 14:44 | <babyhuey> alright, im updating the image now
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| 14:45 | <ogra> err, ~/.xsession lives on the server in the users homedir
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| 15:03 | <babyhuey> ok, i have it the way i want it, but it is etherboot and when i have the client load the pxelinux.0 it says its not a valid image
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| 15:03 | <ogra> make sure it loads the nbi image
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| 15:03 | the shipped dhcpd.conf should autoselect that though ... i wonder why it doesnt
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| 15:06 | <babyhuey> im not using the one with the ltsp server
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| 15:06 | we already have one setup
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| 15:06 | there is: option option-128 e4:45:74:68:00:00; option option-129 "MOPTS=nolock,ro,wsize=2048,rsize=2048";
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| 15:06 | on the old setup
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| 15:06 | do i need those?
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| 15:06 | <ogra> nope
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| 15:07 | <babyhuey> wonder why those are there then
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| 15:07 | <ogra> ubuntu doesnt use nfs anymore (since over a year)
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| 15:07 | just have a look at the shipped dhcpd.conf
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| 15:07 | its quite easy
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| 15:07 | <babyhuey> i dont see anything definitive
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| 15:08 | should i put "filename nbi.img" in the dhcpd.conf?
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> babyjuey, try to use the newer version of etherboot (=gpxe), it uses pxelinux.0 and it's much better
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| 15:09 | <babyhuey> i dont really have a way to update
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| 15:09 | it is the original thin client from disklessworkstations.com
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> How do you use etherboot? on floppies?
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| 15:10 | OK then just try filename nbi.img
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| 15:10 | <babyhuey> k
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| 15:10 | brb
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| 15:15 | still the same deal
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| 15:16 | wait, nvm
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| 15:16 | typo
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| 15:17 | mk, now its hanging on "Loading, please wait..."
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| 15:17 | sorry to be such a pain
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| 15:34 | <davidj> jammcq: Will you be driving through Boston?
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| 15:35 | <jammcq> umm
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| 15:35 | we'll b driving through mass
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| 15:35 | <babyhuey> man this sucks, the nbi.img is doing the splash and quiet even though it is turned off, am i missing an option somewhere?
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| 15:35 | <jammcq> not necessarily getting near the airport
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| 15:35 | i think ragnar will also be ending up at BOS
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| 15:36 | <davidj> Ragnar's coming?
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| 15:36 | <jammcq> yep
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| 15:36 | last I heard
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| 15:36 | <davidj> cool
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| 15:36 | <jammcq> warren is leaving from boston
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| 15:36 | <davidj> I just found a decent flight.
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| 15:36 | <jammcq> do you know what time you'd be there?
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| 15:37 | <davidj> 10:40 or 2:17
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| 15:37 | <jammcq> we'll be in Rochester NY the night before
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| 15:37 | <davidj> Just wanted to see if I needed to rent a car or not.
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| 15:37 | <jammcq> prolly leaving Rochester by 10am or so
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| 15:37 | johnny is now known as Guest18656 | |
| 15:37 | <davidj> and if so, if anyone else needed a ride from Boston.
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| 15:37 | <jammcq> I think the thing to do is hook up with Ragnar
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> babyhuey, that's why I prefer gpxe... :P I think with etherboot you have to use options 128 and 129 to be able to pass kernel parameters, but when I tried it once I couldn't make it work, I had to rebuild nbi.img. See this: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/KernelOptions
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| 15:38 | <davidj> jammcq: OK
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| 15:38 | <ogra> alkisg, wow, how old is that :)
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| 15:38 | thats surely not the way for ubuntu
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| 15:38 | <babyhuey> is there a type of firmware upgrade i can use on these to make them use pxeboot?
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| 15:39 | <ogra> iirc you need to create /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf in the chroot and set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> ogra, it's supposed to be about etherboot, independendly of the OS... but I guess that's why I never got it to work!!! :)
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| 15:40 | <ogra> then run update-initamfs -u in there and mkelfimage, then run sudo ltsp-update-kenels on the server
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| 15:41 | alkisg, the etherboot default options are set at nbi image buildtime
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> ogra, ok, nice to know... But I still prefer gpxe!!! :P :D
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| 15:41 | <ogra> though i'm not really up to date with the whole process, vagrantc is a way better source of information for etherboot
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> ...this should really be documented somewhere, all I found was this bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=428446
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| 15:50 | <babyhuey> man this hangign is annoying
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| 15:50 | at least the day is almost over
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| 15:55 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if you set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /opt/ltsp/i386/update-kernels.conf and run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels ... it should hard-code the options into the nbi.img
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> babyhuey, ^^^^^^
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| 15:55 | (vagrantc, thanks)
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| 15:58 | <babyhuey> ty
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> the code was committed to ltsp-trunk 2007-12-08, so it should be in hardy.
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| 16:22 | <ogra> vagrantc, /opt/ltsp/i386/update-kernels.conf ?
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| 16:22 | in the root dir ??
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| 16:22 | * ogra thought it was /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf | |
| 16:23 | <vagrantc> oops.
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| 16:23 | yes.
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| 16:23 | <ogra> ah, phew
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| 16:23 | felt a bit wrong :)
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| 16:23 | alkisg, babyhuey ^^^^
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> simple typo
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> ok... Me, I don't want anything to do with etherboot/nbi.img, gpxe and pxelinux.0 are much better and easier for kernel parameters. :) I've even made some boot disks/CDs etc based on grub and gpxe.
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> i just started messing with gpxe. it's great :)
| |
| 16:27 | rom-o-matic has a CD image that's around 500k with all the supported drives built-in.
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| 16:28 | haven't had any luck with the all-drivers floppy image though...
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| 16:28 | <ogra> well, but it wonr help you much with a ROM based client and without eprom writer
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| 16:29 | Lns, the above is probably worth to be put on the ubuntu wiki btw
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| 16:30 | "HowToAdjustEtherBootOptions"
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| 16:30 | or some such
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> could have etherboot point to a network bootable gpxe image :)
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| 16:30 | <ogra> and chainload pxe :)
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| 16:30 | so you can only change the options in one place
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> hmmm... maybe i should package gpxe for debian
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| 16:32 | <ogra> it isnt yet ?
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| 16:32 | wow
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> not that i know of.
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| 16:32 | it's in ubuntu?
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| 16:32 | <ogra> its around for quite a while
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| 16:32 | ogra@osiris:~/Devel/ltsp/ltsp-trunk$ apt-cache search gpxe
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| 16:32 | ogra@osiris:~/Devel/ltsp/ltsp-trunk$
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| 16:32 | doesnt look like
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> well, looks like i found a new project. :)
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| 16:33 | * ogra wonders what is the "free pxe daemon" | |
| 16:34 | <vagrantc> it's some weird daemon that really, really old pxe implementations needed ... or wanted ... or something like that.
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| 16:34 | <ogra> PXE is a specification to boot PCs from the net. Apart from BOOTP or DHCP for
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| 16:34 | acquiring an IP address and TFTP for transferring files, it requires a PXE
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| 16:34 | daemon on the server. This package provides only this daemon.
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| 16:34 | wow
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| 16:34 | thats so wrong
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| 16:35 | and indeed its the first hit i would use if i wouldnt know about all that stuff
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| 16:35 | that package should die
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| 16:36 | <stgraber> ouch, a PXE daemon, that sounds really wrong :)
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| 16:36 | <ogra> yeah, and its just called pxe
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| 16:36 | so if i want to do pxe boot i certainly need that package :P
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| 16:41 | <Lns> ogra: I would - I haven't really used Etherboot at all before though so I dont know much about it
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| 16:57 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I've made an all-driver boot grub/gpxe floppy, if you want it it's here: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/tosteki/index.php?topic=1451.0 (file grubgpxe.7z - also contains an iso and some files for pxe booting from windows)
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the CD image from rom-o-matic works fine for me ...
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| 16:59 | i'll re-try getting the floppy image from rom-o-matic
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> vagrantc, yes, but mine is multiboot! :P (useful for windows / ltsp multibooting)
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| 16:59 | vagrantc, it's broken, I've been building gpxe from source for some months now, it never worked for me
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| 17:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: how's that?
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| 17:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i mean, multiboot ?
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> Well, it uses grub to boot either ltsp, local linux, local windows 98/xp/vista... whatever
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| 17:02 | <vagrantc> why would i want a floppy to boot local linux or local windows ?
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> vagrantc, it also works the other way around, i.e. it can call gpxe.krn from boot.ini or from win 98/vista boot loaders
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> vagrantc, well, if you want both windows AND ltsp on the same PC, you have to have a boot manager...
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| 17:02 | <vagrantc> alkisg: why not have that be pxelinux ?
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> vagrantc, pxelinux cannot be installed in ntfs. neither grub, only grub4dos / supergrub etc
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| 17:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: pxelinux cannot be installed anywhere but on the network ... ?
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> Well, I thought you were talking about syslinux. Pxelinux is on the network, gpxe loads it
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| 17:04 | <vagrantc> exactly. and then set up a boot menu using pxelinux ...
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| 17:05 | configurable from the network, rather than from the floppy itself
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> And how is pxelinux going to load Vista?
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> no idea how vista loads, but can't you just chainload iit?
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> Or, more to the point, what if you have Vista and you don't want to use a floppy, but modify the Vista bootloader to also be able to boot from the network?
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc, this is the most common scenario in the labs I'm teaching in, windows in very old PCs, so the bootloader is usually installed on the hard disk (grub4dos / gpxe / windows)
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| 17:09 | <vagrantc> thankfully, i haven't had to think much about windows at all :)
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc, we have to, because some educations applications only work in windows... I don't like it though... :(
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| 17:09 | *educational
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> looks like there's an ITP for gpxe: http://bugs.debian.org/474034
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> vagrantc, "rom-o-matic has a CD image that's around 500k with all the supported drives built-in." - where? I can only download CD images for a single NIC, so I build it from source every time I want a CD with all supported NICs...
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| 17:22 | <vagrantc> alkisg: there's an "all-drivers" option in the list of network cards ... way down the list.
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> duh... in "g"!!! I looked at the top, at the bottom... didn't think to look at g!!!
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> thanks
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> you'd think it should be the default choice ...
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| 17:24 | there was reluctance to build all-drivers stuff with etherboot ... but seems like there's no such reluctance with gpxe
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| 17:24 | <alkisg> ...or at least at the end, or a simple download link on their start page...
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| 17:25 | I can't wait for them to implement all those etherboot options again
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| 17:25 | e.g. static boot info...
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| 17:34 | <ogra> Lns, well, i just meant to copy over what vagrantc said so people know whats involved n changing the etherboot defaults
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| 17:35 | <Lns> ogra: can you paste that info? I'll put it up but i don't have a backlog after restarting irc client
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| 17:35 | <ogra> if you set BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf and run chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; ltsp-update-kernels ... it should hard-code the options into the nbi.img
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| 17:35 | thats all
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| 17:36 | by default BOOTPROMPT_OPTS only has "quiet splash" in ubuntu
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| 17:37 | <Lns> thx
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| 17:40 | <Lns> ogra: so the information we want to put into the wiki is that BOOTPROMPT_OPTS in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf will set kernel boot parms for etherboot?
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| 17:40 | and to follow ^^^ to set them
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| 17:40 | <ogra> right, i.e. if you want to drop spalsh and quiet BOOTPROMPT_OPTS=""
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| 17:41 | <Lns> ok, cool. i'll add that to the existing etherboot page
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| 17:41 | ogra: or anyone, can you verify the content in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPEtherbootSetup is still valid?
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| 17:42 | <ogra> no
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| 17:42 | totally unneeded
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| 17:42 | <Lns> oh..
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| 17:42 | <ogra> the default dhcpd.conf has an automatic switch to use etherboot if an etherboot client requests the kernel, the mknbi part is automated already
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| 17:43 | <Lns> gotcha. I'll revise that then
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| 17:43 | <ogra> nothing of that is needed anymore
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| 17:43 | <Lns> *snip snip*
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| 17:43 | <ogra> though we dont use mknbi by default
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| 17:43 | if people have probs with the builtin image rolling, installing mknbi in the chroot might help them, that should be noted
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| 17:44 | if mknbi is available it will be used by default insted of the currnet tool
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| 17:44 | <vagrantc> well, i think BOOTPROMT_OPTS="" will get re-set to the defaults for ubuntu ...
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| 17:44 | BOOTPROMPT_OPTS=" "
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| 17:44 | <ogra> if [ -z "$BOOTPROMPT_OPTS" ]; then
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| 17:44 | hmm, yeah
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| 17:44 | needs a space
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| 17:45 | <Lns> so mknbi isn't installed as a dep to ltsp-server* .. ok
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> all that stuff happens client-side.
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| 17:46 | <ogra> no, and -server would be the wrong place anyway
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> well, chroot-side.
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| 17:46 | <ogra> we currently use mkelfimage
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| 17:46 | iirc
| |
| 17:46 | but if that doesnt work you can install mknbi inside the chroot and it will replace the default
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| 17:47 | <Lns> ah gotcha ok, didn't catch the in-the-chroot part
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| 17:47 | <vagrantc> defaults to mkelfimage ... if mknbi is installed, it'll generate a nbi-old.img or some such
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| 17:47 | nbi-legacy.img ...
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| 17:47 | as older versions of etherboot don't support images produced with mkelfimage
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| 17:48 | <ogra> urgh
| |
| 17:48 | * Lns has a nbi-img-2.6.24-19-generic on his ltsp server..which uses pure pxe | |
| 17:48 | <ogra> but that breaks the efault dhcpd.conf
| |
| 17:48 | grrr
| |
| 17:48 | who changed that ?
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| 17:48 | <vagrantc> ogra: there's no way to get a perfect dhcpd.conf, as it's not strictly based on the etherboot version, but what they were compiled to support.
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| 17:49 | of course it was me :P
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| 17:49 | <ogra> its not based on etherboot at all
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| 17:49 | <Lns> jerry..jerry... lol
| |
| 17:49 | <vagrantc> and i didn't *remove* support for anything, merely *Added* support for additional stuff.
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| 17:49 | <ogra> it looks for pxe ... if the client cant do pxe it will fall back to nbi.img
| |
| 17:49 | well, you removed automatic suport
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| 17:50 | <vagrantc> no i didn't.
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| 17:50 | trust me.
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| 17:50 | it behaves exactly as before.
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| 17:50 | <ogra> if it would just replace nbi.img it would work
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| 17:50 | <vagrantc> it still creates nbi.img, but creates an additional image
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| 17:50 | <ogra> if it uses a different image name the dhspd wont serve it
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| 17:50 | both with mknbi in that case ?
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| 17:50 | <vagrantc> no
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| 17:51 | <ogra> see
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| 17:51 | <vagrantc> exactly as before.
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| 17:51 | <ogra> so if mkelfimage doesnt work i have to chnge my dhcpd.conf ...
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| 17:51 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 17:51 | <ogra> right
| |
| 17:51 | thats wrong
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| 17:51 | <vagrantc> well, it was even more wrong with having to hack the code to support an additional incompatible image.
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| 17:51 | <ogra> if someone *deliberately* installs mknbi, he wants mknbi images
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| 17:52 | <vagrantc> bah.
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| 17:52 | <ogra> we dont install it by default and if i install it i do that because mkelfimage didnt work for me
| |
| 17:52 | why should i need to timker with dhcpd ?
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> if someone deliberately installs mknbi, and deliberately removes mkelfimage, then they'll get elf nbi.img generated with mkelf-linux and genuine nbi images generated with mknbi-linux.
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| 17:53 | <ogra> it should just replace nbi.img
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> no, because then you'll break support for versions that don't support genuine nbi images.
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| 17:53 | <ogra> tsk
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> there's no way to do it perfectly.
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| 17:53 | <Lns> how about asking the admin during image creation what he wants?
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| 17:53 | <ogra> but with less user interaction
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| 17:54 | eek
| |
| 17:54 | no
| |
| 17:54 | * vagrantc has had this conversation at least once before | |
| 17:54 | * Lns misses Debian and how it used to ask how to configure things when installed | |
| 17:54 | <Lns> err...does ask
| |
| 17:54 | <ogra> you can use ubuntu the same way if you like
| |
| 17:54 | * vagrantc hates it when debian asks too many question | |
| 17:54 | <vagrantc> i'm so glad it's moved beyond that
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| 17:55 | <ogra> just select expert mode on install
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> i don't need to be asked the question when 95-99% of the time the defaults work fine.
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| 17:55 | <ogra> anyway, for me the way its handled now is broken
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| 17:55 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's such a tiny corner-case.
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| 17:55 | <ogra> i dont want my users having to touch dhcpd.conf ever
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| 17:56 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, fix it without breaking anything :)
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| 17:56 | <Lns> ogra: ? That's kind of difficult given most people aren't gonna use the same subnet every time
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| 17:56 | <ogra> not now, i have another image test waiting for me
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| 17:56 | <Lns> I've never used the default
| |
| 17:57 | <ogra> Lns, if you have a two NIC server and your TC network is separated *and* the ip range isnt used at the other NIC it will just use what is the default
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| 17:57 | many people install that way
| |
| 17:57 | i would even say most ubuntu ltsp users do
| |
| 17:58 | in a default ubuntu install like described in QuickInstall you will not have to touch anything, it will just work
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| 17:58 | if it doesnt, thats a bug
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| 17:59 | <Lns> ogra: I guess I'm not in the majority then, i have 1/8 servers configured this way.. of course the other 7 are at a school district that already separates student & admin networks
| |
| 17:59 | sorry, 1/9 servers
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| 17:59 | <ogra> right
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| 17:59 | and you wont hear complaints from the people for which it works
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| 18:00 | so you dont get any feedback usually
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| 18:00 | <Lns> or it doesn't work and they give up ;)
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| 18:00 | <ogra> what you usually see are the people for which it doesnt work or the ones not going with the defaults
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| 18:01 | <Lns> it just seems crazy to me that so many would be basically creating a network just for ltsp, and not on top of an existing infrastructure
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| 18:01 | <ogra> anyway, need to test the images, we had a last minute respin ... every test is appreciated btw
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| 18:01 | release is supposed to happen within less than 24h and we didnt have enough tests yet
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| 18:02 | <Lns> eek
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| 18:02 | * Lns hasn't touched intrepid yet :( | |
| 18:07 | * alkisg just tried loading pxelinux.0 from an etherboot disk and it worked fine... Why is nbi.img needed? | |
| 18:17 | <ogra> alkisg, because you might have a NIC with a ROM etherboot image
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| 18:17 | and no eprom writer
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| 18:17 | <alkisg> ogra, but if an etherboot disk can load pxelinux.0, (not gpxe, etherboot disk), why a ROM etherboot image can't load it? (newbie question)
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| 18:18 | <ogra> because etherboot roms rarely use rom-o-matic PXE emulation ;)
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| 18:18 | thats only around since some yeats
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| 18:18 | *years
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> ogra, no, I tried an etherboot disk without PXE emulation (I guess...)
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| 18:19 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 18:19 | <alkisg> and just renamed pxelinux.0 to nbi.img so that it would load it
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| 18:19 | and it did, it worked fine...
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| 18:19 | <ogra> intresting
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| 18:19 | i never tried that
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| 18:20 | with a default ubuntu setup ?
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| 18:20 | <alkisg> I used the latest pxelinux.0, I don't know if there were ever any changes...
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| 18:20 | No, latest pxelinux.0, 3.72 i think?
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| 18:20 | Everything else = default intrepid
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> So if it works, just symlinking nbi.img to pxelinux.0 would work... ???
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| 18:24 | (the pxelinux in intrepid needs support for the tsize option from the tftp server, so it doesn't work with virtualbox, that's why I changed to the most recent one some days ago...)
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| 18:27 | alekibango has quit IRC | |
| 18:30 | <ogra> works fine with vbox here
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| 18:30 | though server and client in vbox
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| 18:31 | the symlinking might actually work
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| 18:31 | but probably not on all HW
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| 18:31 | alekibango has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:31 | <ogra> etherboot is a bit tricky there are so many different implementations so it might just be a matter of luck that it worked for you
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| 18:33 | <Lns> ogra: so when's a good time after 24h to bug you about the nbd_swap issues in hardy? :)
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| 18:33 | <ogra> next week
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> I don't understand the low-level staff involved, why would loading a kernel would be different than loading pxelinux... anyway, time to call it a day... bye everyone
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| 18:33 | <ogra> i'll fall dead after the release announcment went out
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| 18:33 | <Lns> hehe.. ok cool
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| 18:33 | be sure to have a beer for us all here
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| 18:33 | <ogra> not much sleep for me in release week, i'll sleep the whole weeend
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| 18:34 | i just found a bottle of nice pinot grigio in the fridge
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| 18:34 | <Lns> hope you're taking breaks here and there... that always helps productivity
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| 18:34 | <ogra> half finished already :)
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| 18:34 | <Lns> lol nice =)
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| 18:34 | <ogra> i'm forced to have breaks ... it takes a lot of time to respin all images
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| 18:34 | * Lns should send ogra a nice bottle from sonoma county | |
| 18:35 | <ogra> pre release testing means waiting for isos or .img files to be rolled and then endless glaring at progressbars
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| 18:35 | the actual testing is usually done in 20 min ... the rest is rather 2h
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've definitely found older etherboot versions that didn't work.
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| 18:36 | alkisg: you need an etherboot that doesn't have ELF support built in.
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> oh, that's the difference!!!
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> alkisg: to get it to fail.
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> So pxelinux.0 is an elf image?
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> maybe
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| 18:36 | <stgraber> ogra: get a real powerful box and do 6 tests at the same time, you won't have to wait anymore :)
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> I see... thanks!
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> i'm not sure what pxelinux is :)
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| 18:37 | <ogra> stgraber, tricky if you only have one mobile device :)
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> i just know how to get it to work :)
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| 18:37 | <stgraber> ogra: well except for the rebuilds (I was waiting it for 5 hours or so ...)
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> I thought it would be something like a comboot
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| 18:37 | <stgraber> ogra: hmm, right and touchscreens are not easy to test in VM :)
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> No header, plain assembly loaded at 07c0:0000
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| 18:37 | <ogra> i'm testing the mobile images and especially if i.e. touchscreen works
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| 18:38 | well, works fine on my lappie, but needs the vmmouse driver inside the image
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| 18:38 | indeed we dont ship that
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| 18:44 | <alkisg> file nbi.img-2.6.27-7-generic: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, corrupted section header size.... anyway, time to go.
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| 22:07 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 22:07 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 22:08 | Hey jammcq!
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| 22:08 | <jammcq> I'm just heading to bed
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| 22:08 | <sbalneav> I think there's something wrong with the LTSP mail server
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| 22:08 | <jammcq> oh?
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| 22:08 | why?
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| 22:08 | <sbalneav> I'm not gettung any mail from sbalneav@ltsp.org
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| 22:08 | one sec, I'll print the message.
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| 22:09 | This is a Delivery Status Notification (DSN).
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| 22:09 | After several attempts,
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| 22:09 | I still haven't been able to deliver your message to
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| 22:09 | sbalneav@ltsp.org.
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| 22:09 | I will keep trying for a few more days,
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| 22:09 | but I thought you would want to know.
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| 22:09 | I said RCPT TO:<sbalneav@ltsp.org>
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| 22:09 | And they gave me the error;
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| 22:09 | <stgraber> evening sbalneav, jammcq
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| 22:09 | <sbalneav> 450 Server configuration problem
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| 22:09 | So it's a 450
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| 22:09 | Not a rush, don't stay up for it.
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| 22:09 | Evening stgraber
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| 22:09 | <davidj> | |
| 22:10 | <sbalneav> Evening davidj
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| 22:10 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 22:10 | <davidj> evening, sbalneav. How are things in the Snowy North?
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| 22:10 | Narcissus has quit IRC | |
| 22:10 | <davidj> I'm convinced USAir is yanking my chain.
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| 22:10 | <sbalneav> No snow yet
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| 22:10 | * ogra cant belive that #ubuntu-release-party is so busy already | |
| 22:11 | <davidj> We've got snow here.
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| 22:11 | <stgraber> here too
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| 22:11 | <jammcq> sbalneav: could that be graylisting you are bumping in to?
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| 22:11 | <davidj> Not in Charlotte, but to the west.
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| 22:12 | greylisting usually keys off IP and rcpt-to, doesn't it?
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| 22:12 | jammcq: What's your greylisting timeout set to?
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| 22:12 | <sbalneav> Don't think so, I've got ltsp.org on whitelist
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| 22:12 | <jammcq> davidj: no clue
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| 22:13 | <sbalneav> Go to bed. We can figure it out tomorrow.
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| 22:13 | <davidj> jammcq: I'm still trying to figure out my travel plans. It looks like I'll fly into Boston, but flying out on Sunday is a problem.
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| 22:13 | <stgraber> davidj: hmm, then drive from Boston ?
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| 22:13 | <davidj> I can either stay at the Seawall an extra night and bum a ride to the Bar Harbor airport in the morning, or I can stay in Boston Sunday night.
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| 22:14 | BOS-CTL on Sunday is over $1,000, on Monday it's 69.
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| 22:20 | <jammcq> sbalneav: check your inbox
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| 22:21 | comcast goofyness
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| 22:24 | <jammcq> ok, i'm heading to bed. see ya'll later
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