IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 February 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:10 | <sbalneav> Well, good news. Got the first succesful auth under libpam_sshauth.
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| 04:10 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 04:10 | <sbalneav> jammcq: hey ho.
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| 04:10 | <jammcq> hidy how
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| 04:11 | * vagrantc cheers sbalneav on! | |
| 04:11 | <sbalneav> Gettin' somewhere. Did that fix I came up with yesterday for LDM help alkis?
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| 04:11 | vagrantc: hey ho!
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| 04:11 | vagrantc: minor bug found in libpam_sshauth.
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| 04:12 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i didn't get a chance to test your LDM fix, but it built from source, at least :)
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| 04:12 | sbalneav: oh?
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| 04:12 | sbalneav: in the 0.1 or 0.2 generation?
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| 04:13 | <sbalneav> 0.2
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| 04:13 | rev's 75, 76, and 77
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| 04:13 | 75: .h file not being included in make dist
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| 04:13 | 76: improvements to debugging
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| 04:13 | 77: non-return on value :( Fixed.
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| 04:14 | <vagrantc> i don't think i used "make dist" anyways.
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| 04:15 | * vagrantc can't even remember | |
| 04:15 | <vagrantc> it wouldn't have built from source if it didn't have that, would it?
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| 04:17 | <sbalneav> Well, if you built from bzr source, yes.
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| 04:17 | But if you do a "make dist", to get a libpam-sshauth.0.2.tar.gz file, then the .h wasn't included.
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| 04:18 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: there are automated builds from the debian source package, which has no idea that bzr exists.
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| 04:18 | https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=libpam-sshauth&suite=experimental
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| 04:18 | <sbalneav> How did you produce the original *.tar.gz file? From bzr?
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| 04:18 | <vagrantc> probably.
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| 04:18 | <sbalneav> So that was fine.
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| 04:19 | <vagrantc> i've got a script i use to generate tarballs from bzr and git ...
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| 04:19 | it's pretty braindead
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| 04:19 | probably used that
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| 04:20 | 20:13 < sbalneav> 77: non-return on value :( Fixed.
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| 04:21 | that seems pretty important, though
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| 04:21 | <sbalneav> Yup.
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| 04:23 | <vagrantc> could roll a 0.2.1 tomorrow, or just patch the 0.2 version...
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| 04:23 | sbalneav: is it worth having updated versions in debian experimental yet?
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| 04:26 | <sbalneav> Can we wait 'till after the hack-a-thon? That way, if we uncover anything, we can get a "good" version there.
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| 04:28 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: works for me.
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| 04:28 | sbalneav: weren't you the one who asked for it to hit experimental in the first place? :)
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| 04:31 | <sbalneav> Probably. I just wanted people to have an easy way to install the package.
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| 04:47 | <alkisg> 04:11<sbalneav> Gettin' somewhere. Did that fix I came up with yesterday for LDM help alkis? ==> what fix?
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| 04:47 | AFAIK ldm-trunk now is the same as when the bug appeared....
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| 04:47 | (hi all btw)
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| 04:48 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i.e. it didn't make it worse?
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> vagrantc: err no, it didn't make it worse, but we don't have any code in LDM yet that tries to address the bug...
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| 04:49 | We either need to kill all user processes,
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| 04:49 | or keep the ssh connection up until after xorg dies
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| 04:50 | I was waiting for sbalneav to help with the second solution, but if that's too hard and we give up on it,
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| 04:50 | <vagrantc> but doesn't it provide a place to put the hook to kill the user processes?
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| 04:50 | <alkisg> then we'll have to resort to the first one...
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| 04:50 | We always had such a hook
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| 04:50 | But killing all the user processes, and thus losing unsaved data, sounds pretty bad
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| 04:53 | <jammcq> my understanding is that LDM will now catch the TERM/QUIT/... signals and run the rc files with 'stop' as the argument
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| 04:53 | and also do that on logout
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| 04:54 | BEFORE shutting down the ssh connection
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| 04:54 | <alkisg> jammcq: yeah that was the same when the bug appeared
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| 04:54 | I removed the rcfiles("stop") call trying to fix that
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| 04:54 | I didn't; but putting it back doesn't make it any better either
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| 04:55 | <jammcq> but ldm didn't used to catch the signals, it would just die
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| 04:55 | now it doesn't die until after the rcfiles are run
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| 04:55 | isnt' that better?
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| 04:55 | <alkisg> jammcq: what signals?
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| 04:55 | sbalneav didn't commit any signals-related code...
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| 04:56 | <jammcq> when xorg dies
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| 04:56 | well.. I guess i don't know what's going on then
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ldm-trunk/changes
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| 04:56 | <jammcq> and with that... I'm going to bed
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> We're talking about 1481 and 1480, right?
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| 06:30 | <sbalneav> Just in case anyone sees: got my first remote X session going underneath libpam_sshauth
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| 06:38 | <muppis> Neat.
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| 13:14 | <markit> hi alkisg, quick question, I've tested swappines set to 20 on my netbook and I have to admit that works much better. What about set the same in chroot for fat clients? Isn't a good idea?
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> markit: if it's the same on netbooks and fat clients etc, why not try to convince the ubuntu or the kernel folks to change the defaults? :)
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| 13:17 | How do you measure the "it goes much better" part?
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| 13:18 | <markit> alkisg: netbook has ked and 1Gb ram, with normal swappiness swaps like a mad
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> It swaps?
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| 13:18 | I thought swapping only occured on special occations...
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| 13:18 | <markit> you open firefox and a different program, then when you go from one to the other hd light works like a mad
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> And with swappiness = 20 it doesn't?
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| 13:19 | <markit> no, I can switch program much faster and without hd working like a mad
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| 13:19 | <alkisg> And how do thin clients behave with swappiness = 20?
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| 13:19 | E.g. say with 128 mb ram?
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| 13:20 | Or, fat clients with 512 ram?
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| 13:20 | <markit> vm.swappiness = 10
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> Do those benefit from low swappiness? Or it makes it worse for them?
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| 13:20 | <markit> as far as I understand, if you set to 0 it avoids swap, so probably system will crash
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> What I'm asking is, suppose you have a fat client with 512 ram
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| 13:21 | Will it work better with swappiness = 20 or = 50?
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| 13:21 | <markit> otherwise you say to the system not to to try to guess about not often used memory
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| 13:21 | <alkisg> And, the same question about a thin client with 128 MB RAM
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| 13:21 | <markit> I think will work better in any case
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| 13:21 | <alkisg> Then why isn't 20 the default?
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| 13:22 | (from the kernel team, not from ubuntu...)
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| 13:22 | <markit> with low ram what reasonable optimization could even do kernel with default swappines?
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| 13:22 | well, googling seems that is not set for desktop usage
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| 13:22 | <alkisg> I don't know, but I don't like changing the defaults without specific and reproducible benchmarks...
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| 13:23 | It should be easy to introduce a SWAPPINESS lts.conf directive of course..
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| 13:23 | bbiab, gotta feed the little one...
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| 13:24 | <markit> :)
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| 13:24 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swappiness
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| 13:24 | and for most desktop systems, setting it to 100 may affect the overall performance, whereas setting it lower (even 0) may improve interactivity (by decreasing response latency.)
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| 13:52 | <alkisg> markit: it just seems strange to me, when I install a desktop system, to not get a good value for swappiness
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| 13:53 | All those kernel folks, both upstream and in the ubuntu team, didn't see that?
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| 14:02 | <markit> alkisg: I'm short of ram in my desktop too (4 GB, firefox eats a lot of ram, so do KVM if I run a VM with audio on, etc.) and I've set swappiness to 10 here too, and seems better
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq#What_is_swappiness_and_how_do_I_change_it.3F
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| 14:04 | The default setting in Ubuntu is swappiness=60. Reducing the default value of swappiness will probably improve overall performance for a typical Ubuntu desktop installation. A value of swappiness=10 is recommended, but feel free to experiment. Note: Ubuntu server installations have different performance requirements to desktop systems, and the default value of 60 is likely more suitable.
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| 14:05 | That paragraph supports your findings
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| 14:05 | But then, why doesn't "ubuntu-desktop" change its value?
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| 14:05 | <markit> this remembers me some scheduler war...
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| 14:06 | desktop had some benefit with scheduler A, but scheduler B was choosen for "better overall performances"
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| 14:06 | even if trashed your desktop
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| 14:06 | ;P
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| 14:06 | maybe we could try to find a debian dev that has the answer
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| 14:07 | or will just reply "change it if you want a different value"
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> I think a question in askubuntu could help
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| 14:07 | Or a bug report/question in the ubuntu kernel
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| 14:08 | <markit> I asked you because maybe you already tried and found problems, so wanted to avoid do a mistake
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| 14:09 | * markit fighting with the reinstallation of an unsupported epson scanner and epson printer... I do hate epson | |
| 14:09 | <markit> ops, canon printer
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| 14:09 | I do hate canon as well ;P
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| 15:06 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 16:18 | <Hyperbyte> Hi!
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| 18:03 | <kev_n> alkis: dunno if you're busy, but if you get a chance I got the xorg.7.log file.. http://pastebin.com/3Cki11V7 ..and am still having problems the thin client display coming up as scrambled or saying "input not supported"
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| 18:04 | I tried to troubleshoot for a few hours last night but don't think I really got anywhere
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| 18:09 | it does work when using a 25 pin monitor cable and dvi adapter, but only if it is the only one plugged in, and it scrambles with one dvi cable plugged in to the dvi-i, and nothing (input not supported) just the dvi-d or both are plugged in
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| 18:19 | <Enslaver> So is this not right? I have a plugin for the ltsp-build-client, add_option "fat-client" "`eval_gettext "run most or all applications locally"`" "advanced" "false"
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| 18:19 | meaning no param, but I'm checking for it with: if [ -n "$option_fat_client_value" ]; then
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| 18:19 | but its failing the test
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| 18:21 | <alkisg> !x_horzsync
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| 18:21 | <ltsp> Error: "x_horzsync" is not a valid command.
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| 18:23 | <knipwim> Enslaver: i interpreted these as set for true when filled in with anything
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| 18:23 | see the Gentoo plugins, 010-bootstrap for instance
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| 18:24 | or the common plugin 020-rootpath
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| 18:35 | <Enslaver> k
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| 18:36 | so i don't get why its failing the check
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| 18:36 | lemme try to compare it to true
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> sbalneav: hi, so, we're giving up on the "keep the SSH connection alive after X dies" idea, right? Should I just go ahead and kill all user processes using something like this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5562463/
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| 18:40 | <kev_n> I just checked with ddcprobe and edid does fail... so I assume that means I need to put the info in the xorg.conf in the chroot?
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> kev_n: the best idea is to troubleshoot the graphics problems without LTSP (e.g. with the help of the people over at #ubuntu-x), and, once you know what to do, then come here and ask for help on how to do it via lts.conf
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| 18:41 | The openchrome driver is pretty buggy
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| 18:41 | If the problem is horzsync and vrefresh, put something like these in lts.conf:
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| 18:42 | X_HORZSYNC=33.0-61.0
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| 18:42 | X_VERTREFRESH=33.0-61.0
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| 18:42 | <kev_n> alkisg: I kinda got that impression when I was doing a search on the dvi center is disabled issues
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> Scratch the first one, it's wrong, I meant this one: X_HORZSYNC=33.0-87.0
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| 18:42 | <kev_n> does that mean I would need to disable xrandr or is that only for x_mode?
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> That's instead of EDID, you can still use xrandr
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| 18:43 | <kev_n> ok
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> Actually, try with only those 2, nothing else in lts.conf
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| 18:50 | <kev_n> hrm.. nope
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| 18:50 | damnit, I was hopeful
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| 18:53 | <kev_n> nothin new... big surprise I guess
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| 19:08 | could it be that I need to use a dual link dvi-d cable?
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| 19:21 | <kev_n> alkisg: oh yeah, thanks for the help with this.. still haven't gotten it work but it's getting there
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| 19:26 | <Enslaver> So the way to get /home mounted over NFS in the client used to be NFS_HOME, but the code says its deprecated so what is it now?
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| 19:27 | copy_dirs?
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| 19:36 | <alkisg> Enslaver: FSTAB_0, just put a complete fstab line in FSTAB_x
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| 19:36 | <Enslaver> k
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| 19:37 | FSTAB_1="server:/home /home nfs defaults,nolock 0 0"
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| 19:37 | was already there :/ something else i gotta check on :(
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| 19:40 | <kev_n> So I just checked on the shell of the client and I use 'dpkg -l | grep openchrome' but nothing shows.. but when I check on the server and on the server with ltsp-chroot it does.. could that be part of the problem?
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| 19:42 | nevermind, even though it doesn't show for some reason it says it is already the newest version... so I dunno
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