IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 October 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:28 | <Appiah> I made a profile that has the menu with only the software that's gonna be used
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| 09:28 | and all users have been created
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| 09:29 | now I want to change that menu , is there a easy way to change this on the users or should I just replace all ~/.config/ (script)
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| 09:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> appiah: is that with sabayon?
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| 09:37 | <Appiah> nope
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| 09:37 | wish I could use sabayon but it just crashes
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, well if you've removed the System Menus, you can still get to the "main menu" program by using terminal or alt+F2
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| 09:38 | from there, run alacarte
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> Appiah: it doesn't crash for me if I use sbalneav's ppa..
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| 09:38 | <Appiah> alkisg: good to know :)
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| 09:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg speaks the truth
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> Appiah: also, is that change for *all* users?
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| 09:38 | If so, I think you can modify the default menus...
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| 09:39 | <Appiah> it's locked down for changes
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| 09:39 | users have no access to launch gnome-terminal or xterm
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| 09:40 | what's fixed in the PPA that has not made it into the Jaunty repo?
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| 09:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> Appiah: ssh -X into the server and run alacarte from there? :)
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| 09:40 | <jammcq> good morning my friends
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> Appiah: many critical (=crashing) bugs... :)
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| 09:40 | <Appiah> _UsUrPeR_: what are we talking about right now?
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| 09:41 | <sbalneav> Appiah: have you tried the sabayon packages in my ppa?
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| 09:41 | <Appiah> no never heard of it sbalneav
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| 09:41 | until now
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| 09:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> I am assuming you made changes to the desktop of your users which disallows changes to the menu. Is that the case?
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| 09:41 | <Appiah> _UsUrPeR_: correct
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| 09:42 | if I run alacarte on the server ,it will effect all users , is that what you're saying?
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| 09:42 | <sbalneav> https://edge.launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+ppa-packages
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| 09:42 | <_UsUrPeR_> no, it will affect a single user
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| 09:42 | but you can copy the gconf after it's created I believe
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| 09:42 | <Appiah> _UsUrPeR_: ye but I have already made my changes :)
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| 09:43 | sbalneav: I'll check it out in my lab
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| 09:43 | proper working tools *yummy*
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| 09:50 | <Appiah> oh alacarte is what I've been using
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| 09:51 | not as familiar with all the gnome names as I thought I was >_>
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| 09:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> Appiah: yeah :)
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| 09:52 | that's the one
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| 09:53 | <Appiah> well for now I'll just replace all users application.menu file
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| 12:12 | <vagrantc_> jammcq, sbalneav, Ryan52, stgraber, ogra: does this look like a reasonable patch to y'all: http://bugs.debian.org/550989
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc_> or the makings of a workable patch
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| 12:14 | <ogra> looks ok to me
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| 12:15 | <vagrantc_> i wonder if it also catches hostname and ip matching...
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| 12:15 | <ogra> but i dont know much about the guts of getltscfg ... it always just worked so i never had to touch it
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| 12:15 | <vagrantc_> yeah, same here.
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| 12:15 | <ogra> jim or scott should be best to comment on it
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| 12:15 | * vagrantc_ wonders what the _GNU_SOURCE define is about | |
| 12:16 | <ogra> some headers behave differently with it set
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| 12:16 | * ogra needs to go afk again | |
| 12:17 | <vagrantc_> i guess i could apply it to my next debian upload to test it out, and then upstream if it works ok.
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| 12:44 | <stgraber> vagrantc_: I agree with the idea but I can't say that the code will just work by looking at it. I don't know getltscfg well enough for that. Testing it to make sure we don't break anything would be good.
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc_> stgraber: sure.
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc_> well, the pattern matching from getltscfg seems to work for me...
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| 13:36 | <jammcq> vagrantc_: i'm looking at the patch now. I tried to do this about 6 or 7 years ago
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| 13:37 | <vagrantc_> cool :)
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| 13:38 | <jammcq> I never knew there was a fnmatch() function
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| 13:39 | i'm impressed with how little code had to be added
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| 13:41 | <vagrantc_> my manual tests on the commandline using -n ip and -n mac seemed to work fine.
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| 13:41 | <jammcq> it needs to be document that this is "glob" matching not "regex" matching.
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| 13:41 | for this purpose, glob matching is perfect
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| 14:24 | <rjune> !j
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| 14:24 | <ltspbot> rjune: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 15:02 | <talntid> anyone here have any trouble with some ltsp clients surfing the web super fast, and some being really slow?
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| 15:02 | same internal website
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| 15:05 | <Lns> talntid: same client hardware and switch to ltsp server?
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| 15:07 | <talntid> yes
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| 15:07 | everything is identical
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| 15:09 | <Lns> doesn't make sense to me
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| 15:09 | <talntid> me either :\
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| 15:09 | <Lns> heh
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| 15:09 | <talntid> its all exact. heh
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| 15:09 | <Lns> could it be something more up the chain than the clients? (like your proxy/router/etc) ?
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| 15:10 | <talntid> well, i'm not using a proxy...
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| 15:10 | router is identical, and on nearly-stock settings..
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| 15:10 | i have a xen machine, ltsp1...
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| 15:10 | and another one called www1
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| 15:11 | most clients on ltsp1 can hit the website on www1 instantly
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| 15:11 | .. but not some of 'em
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| 15:12 | <Lns> so this is all through xen?
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| 15:17 | <talntid> yes, Lns :)
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| 15:25 | <vagrantc_> talntid: consistantly the same clients?
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| 15:26 | <talntid> yes
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| 15:26 | one is currently going on right now
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| 15:27 | i'm pinging, tracerouting, etc..
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| 15:27 | it takes like.. 60 seconds to refresh a page...
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| 15:27 | on the browser
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| 15:27 | other clients, it's instant
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| 15:27 | <Lns> talntid: are you ltsp clients virtualized as well?
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| 15:27 | <talntid> no
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| 15:27 | just the server they are on
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| 15:27 | <Lns> k
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| 15:28 | is there anything in common with these slow clients besides the fact that they're slow?
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| 15:29 | and/or the users logged on?
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> talntid: you could start benchmarking... e.g. first try iperf or netperf to verify that it isn't some low level problem, then try firefox with an ip address instead of a dns name, etc etc...
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| 15:40 | <talntid> tried firefox with ip...
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| 15:40 | tried a different account even.. logged in as an account that works well at another client
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| 15:41 | and i am VNC'd to that client perfectly
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| 15:41 | <Lns> talntid: is it consistent that the hardware takes 60sec. to refresh, or sparatic?
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| 15:42 | <talntid> consistant
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| 15:42 | <Lns> what about bootup time? still real slow comparitively?
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| 15:42 | (sp)
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| 15:42 | <talntid> nope, boots fine..
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| 15:42 | <talntid> and everything else runs fine
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| 15:42 | apps load quickly.. etc..
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| 15:42 | <Lns> "everything else" besides firefox?
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| 15:42 | <talntid> right, but firefox is identical to all the other clients
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| 15:42 | <Lns> yeah
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| 15:43 | <talntid> and if i login to the trouble client with a login that works perfect on another client, it works fine.
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| 15:43 | <Lns> so it's user-specific.
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| 15:43 | now we're getting somewhere
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| 15:44 | what about logging in with a 'trouble' login on a previously OK client? is it slow?
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| 15:45 | <talntid> i asked him to go login and see...
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| 15:46 | so when he's done with his next call, he'll check
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| 15:48 | <Lns> talntid: are these thin client sessions or fat client sessions or firefox localapps..?
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| 15:49 | <talntid> not fatcliewnt
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| 15:49 | firefox runs on the server
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| 15:49 | i'd like to try making it run as a localapp... heh
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc_> if
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| 15:52 | <Lns> talntid: you could try renaming their ~/.mozilla folder and see if it helps, maybe something is corrupted, though it sounds like something more low level than that
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| 15:53 | <talntid> Lns: I created a completely new profile, and had them login to it on the problem client
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| 15:53 | still slow
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| 15:53 | so, seems like a connectivity issue to me somehow...
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| 15:54 | bad ethernet maybe...? but i am connected to vnc flawlessly
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| 15:54 | <Lns> so new users are slow, "normal slow users" are slow, but users that work ok on other clients are ok on slow clients?
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| 15:55 | <talntid> no
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| 15:55 | on the problem clients, it doesn't matter what user logs in...
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| 15:55 | its still slow
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| 15:55 | on non-problem clients, it's fine.
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> (11:42:57 μμ) talntid: and if i login to the trouble client with a login that works perfect on another client, it works fine.
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| 15:56 | <talntid> yeah, i havn't been able to reproduce that.
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| 15:56 | sorry
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> ok
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| 15:56 | <talntid> i just tried 2 logins
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| 15:56 | it seems that the problem clients are just problem clients...
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| 15:56 | <talntid> they're gonna have something in common
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> talntid: but they do boot fast, and you can vnc (to? from?) them fast?
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| 15:57 | <Guest51035> hardware?
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| 15:58 | <talntid> correct, alkisg
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| 15:58 | Guest51035: Wyse V00L thin client
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| 15:58 | 800mhz, 512mb ram
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| 15:58 | <Guest51035> are they all that same model?
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| 15:58 | <talntid> yep
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| 15:59 | <johnny> then it must be the network?
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| 15:59 | <talntid> i think so
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| 15:59 | it's just odd i can vnc it perfectly
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| 15:59 | <vagrantc_> talntid: have you tried switching the cables and ethernet ports on a "good" and "bad" client?
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| 16:00 | <talntid> nah, everything is cut to length
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| 16:00 | hard to swap them like that
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc_> swap thin clients?
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| 16:00 | <talntid> problem persists
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| 16:00 | <alkisg> talntid: and the problem is while the page loads? I mean, after it loads, you can scroll the page quickly?
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| 16:00 | <talntid> yes, alkisg, correct
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| 16:01 | vagrantc_: replaced client with brand new unit
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Do you have a dns server around?
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| 16:01 | <talntid> yes
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| 16:01 | i run my own dns
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Maybe some reverse lookup problem or something?
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc_> but if they're logging into the same server...
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| 16:01 | <talntid> it should affect every client then
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| 16:02 | traceroute comes up quickly, as does mtr and ping..
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> Maybe you have dns entries for half of the ltsp clients, I don't know...
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| 16:02 | <talntid> negative.. everything is the same
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| 16:02 | 25 clients
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| 16:03 | <vagrantc_> analize the network traffic with wireshark, maybe?
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| 16:03 | <talntid> what would i look for?
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| 16:03 | <vagrantc_> differences between a working client and a not working one? :P
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| 16:03 | <talntid> right, but the non working ones work, just slower on web browsing only
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc_> you're going to have to cast the net wide, as there isn't much to go on
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| 16:04 | <talntid> yeah
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc_> so, as best you can, isolate it down to a non-working client ... see if it does anything repetative when it's not working right ... and then try with a working client.
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> talntid: try to minimize the traffic (i.e. have only 1 non-working client try to access the server) and see or upload the dumps....
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| 16:05 | * vagrantc_ just DoS'ed vagrantc_ with too many layers of bridging. | |
| 16:05 | <alkisg> heh
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| 16:06 | vagrantc_, I wonder what happens with that new getltscfg patch, when one client matches several sections...
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| 16:06 | Only the first one is used?
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| 16:13 | <Lns> talntid: what about pinging a DNS name that isn't cached from the trouble clients? does it timeout?
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| 16:13 | or take a long time to resolve?
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| 16:14 | <talntid> i don't know of any ?
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| 16:14 | just a random name?
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| 16:14 | <Lns> well something like www.cisco.com or something
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| 16:14 | <Lns> something you'd browse to but isn't cached by your dns server
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| 16:15 | <talntid> k
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| 16:15 | instant
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| 16:16 | <Lns> and browsing to external sites is the same as your intranet site (slow)?
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| 16:21 | <talntid> yes, Lns
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| 16:21 | <Lns> is it the same with another browser, say epiphany?
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc_> alkisg: the same as before: the first one defined in lts.conf is used.
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| 16:22 | <Lns> so weird...certain clients only with http traffic are slow.
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| 16:22 | <talntid> yes, and lynx
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| 16:22 | <Lns> talntid: do you have QOS running anywhere?
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| 16:22 | what is your router?
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| 16:22 | <talntid> those clients do NOT have any proxy enviro vars set either
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| 16:22 | no qos
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| 16:23 | using dell powerconnect switches
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| 16:23 | linksys rv086 router
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc_> talntid: can you plug on of the machines directly into the server with a crossover cable?
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| 16:24 | <talntid> no
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc_> reduce the variables to the smallest possible set.
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| 16:24 | <talntid> the server does not have any open ethernet ports
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc_> talntid: i mean for testing; just unplug the current one that goes to the LTSP network.
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| 16:25 | <talntid> i could, yes...
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc_> might be worth a shot.
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| 16:27 | <talntid> i'll try it when everyone leaves
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| 16:31 | <mikedavisong> hi guys
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| 16:31 | can anybody help me on how to setup k12ltsp to allow administrators to read/write to users home directories
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| 16:31 | thanks
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| 16:34 | <kusznir_> Hi all: I've been trying to get my ubuntu-based ltsp distro to do two things that I haven't managed to yet. The first is to run dual-screened on a DevonIT dual-head thin client, and the second is to get it to connect to other, non-ltsp servers.
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| 16:34 | <Lns> mikedavisong: dunno about k12ltsp but ACLs might be a good option
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| 16:34 | that's what i use
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| 16:35 | <mikedavisong> is there a tutorial i can use on the web? i am new to linux
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| 16:35 | <johnny> mikedavisong, put them in wheel and sudo ?
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| 16:35 | <kusznir_> To the first, I've googled a fair bit, but basically all I get is stuff about making your own custom X config file and overriding all the automatic stuff. I'm still learning LTSP5, but used to use LTSP 4.2, and when I ran that, it was a simple 2-3 lines I added to the lts.conf file to enable dual-head.
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| 16:35 | Is there something like that for ltsp5?
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| 16:35 | <Lns> mikedavisong: get ready to learn about linux filesystem permissions =)
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| 16:35 | <mikedavisong> great!
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| 16:35 | <kusznir_> (BTW: part of this seemed to require logging into the thin client with a shell so I can take a look around and try different x options, etc. How do I do that? I have shells running, but I can't seem to get a username/password setup that will let me in)
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| 16:36 | <Lns> mikedavisong: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ACLSupport
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| 16:36 | (should be portable across distros)
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| 16:36 | <johnny> kusznir_, set SCREEN_02=shell
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| 16:36 | just like in ltsp4
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| 16:36 | iirc
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| 16:37 | kusznir_, read lts-parameters.txt.gz
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| 16:37 | <kusznir_> johnny: already done. I get a nice login: prompt, for which I can't get past. I tried adding a password for root in /etc/shadow on the ltsp server's chroot, then reran the make image command, rebooted the thin client, but still couldn't get in.
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| 16:37 | <johnny> no.. there sholdn't be a promt
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| 16:37 | <kusznir_> johnny: as I can't get into the thin client, I can't see why its not letting me in....
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| 16:37 | <mikedavisong> lns: i think i saw this when i googled for it
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| 16:37 | <johnny> it should be a shell
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| 16:37 | <mikedavisong> lns: is there a gui tool for acl's?
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| 16:37 | <kusznir_> Hmm...Ok, I'll try it again.
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| 16:37 | <johnny> i mean.. no login prompt
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| 16:38 | kusznir_, the other idea is to set the password in the chroot and then rebuild it
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| 16:38 | <Lns> mikedavisong: google for eiciel
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| 16:38 | <johnny> then you can login that way
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| 16:38 | * Lns likes that people have already found some of his vids on yt =) | |
| 16:38 | <mikedavisong> lns: i tried the commands on the ubuntu help but couldnt get pass the 1st step to confirm if acl is installed or not
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| 16:39 | <kusznir_> johnny: that's what I was hoping for, but so far all I've gotten so far is login prompts from the shell screen command. Also, I tried setting the password in the chroot (at least, for root), and it still wouldn't let me in. (I set the password by copying my password from the server's /etc/shadow for my account, and pasting that into the root's /etc/shadow password field)
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| 16:39 | <mikedavisong> i am using k12ltsp
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| 16:40 | <Lns> mikedavisong: well.. it's going to be difficult for you to manage the permissions if you don't know how to use the package manager for your dist...no offense at all..maybe the best bet would be to just use the root account for making changes to users' homedirs (although that is a very insecure solution)
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| 16:40 | mikedavisong: for redhat based dists try 'rpm -qa | grep acl'
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| 16:41 | <mikedavisong> it says i have these libacl-2.2.47-3.fc10.i386
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| 16:41 | acl-2.2.47-3.fc10.i386
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| 16:41 | installed
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| 16:42 | lns: i am trying to install eiciel right now
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| 16:42 | <Lns> k
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| 16:43 | <mikedavisong> lns: i am running eiciel right now and i tried to open a user directory
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| 16:44 | <mikedavisong> however, all i can see in the ACL is that only the user and "users" and "others"
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| 16:44 | <johnny> kusznir_, did you rebuild the chroot?
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| 16:45 | i don't know if they use nbd or not..
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| 16:45 | <mikedavisong> lns: how can i add a user into allow list?
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| 16:45 | <johnny> next time.. just chroot in
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| 16:45 | and set it
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| 16:46 | <mikedavisong> lns: it shows possible participants but they are all greyed out
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| 16:46 | <Lns> mikedavisong: i'm not too familiar with eiciel, i always use the shell
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| 16:47 | might wanna check the docs...did it ask you for root/your pw when starting eiciel?
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| 16:47 | <mikedavisong> no
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| 16:47 | <Lns> maybe you're not running it as a privileged user
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| 16:47 | so it won't let you set perms
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| 16:47 | <mikedavisong> let me try that again
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| 16:48 | lns: it does ask for it
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| 16:49 | lns: if i use the shell, what is the simplest way of allowing user1 to access user2's home directory?
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| 16:49 | do i login as root first?
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc_> probably better to set up a separate directory that certain groups can read/write to, and give all the appropriate users access to that.
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| 16:52 | giving people read/write access to each other's home directories has some bad consequences
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| 16:53 | <mikedavisong> vagrantc_: i tried that but the supervisors want to be able to save some files into their subordinates' directories
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| 16:54 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: then you want to make the supers part of the subs group, and "chmod g+rw" the directories you want
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| 16:54 | mikedavisong: (assuming that the subs group owns the files you want)
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| 16:54 | *directories you want
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| 16:55 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: but would that enable the users to see the supers' directory?
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| 16:55 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: No.
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| 16:55 | if you're not chmodding the super's dir, that is.
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| 16:55 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: how about other subs' individual directories? would they be able to see each other's directories?
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| 16:56 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: you might want to read through the unix permissions model. As long as subs are not part of other subs group, and the files are not world readable, they won't have r/w access.
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| 16:58 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: sorry about this, i am so new to linux.
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| 16:59 | lfaraone:can you give me an example of how to use chmod g+rw?
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| 16:59 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: perfectly alright, just something you should get up to speed on :)
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| 16:59 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: yeah. just dont have that much time to read up on it
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| 17:00 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: well, for the full explanation rum "man chmod", but essentially "chmod g+rw DIRECTORY". If you want that to apply recursively to all files and subdirectories in DIRECTORY, do "chmod -R g+rw DIRECTORY"
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| 17:01 | mikedavisong: that command will probably have to be run either as the sub's user or as root. by the way, "g" stands for 'group', and "+rw" means "add read and write privileges".
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| 17:01 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: do i do this while i am logged in as the supervisor and navigate into the directory i want to "open up"?
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| 17:01 | oh.
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| 17:02 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: but how do i define which "group" would have that priviledge?
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| 17:03 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: well, you can create a "supervisors" group, add all the supers to it, and change the group on the directory with "chgrp GROUPNAME DIRECTORY". (use -R as before if you want it to be recursive)
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| 17:04 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: ok, let me try that
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| 17:06 | lfaraone: I tried it and i get this message
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| 17:06 | [root@localhost /]# chgrp -R Administrators home
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| 17:06 | chgrp: cannot access `home/mikeo/.gvfs': Permission denied
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| 17:06 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: you can safely ignore that, .gvfs is not something you want to access.
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| 17:07 | <mikedavisong> ok
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| 17:07 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: that's a GNOME "virtual file system" folder, which allows legacy programs to access mounted remote shares etc
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| 17:07 | <Lns> the bad thing about this is that newly created files/dirs won't have the group assignment unless you have group sticky bit (iirc)
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| 17:08 | <mikedavisong> lfaraone: i tried to access the home directories using Nautilus but still could not get through. it tells me i have no permission to view the files yet
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| 17:09 | lns: how do i do the group sticky bit (iirc)?
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| 17:09 | <vagrantc_> mikedavisong: don't forget to set the global umask.
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| 17:09 | <Lns> mikedavisong: you really, really, really should read up on *nix permissions before doing stuff like this...its going to be much quicker than trial/error..jmho
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| 17:10 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: are you a member of the group?
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| 17:10 | <vagrantc_> mikedavisong: what you're trying to do is not impossible, but it's very tricky to do well.
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| 17:10 | <Lns> you don't want to go changing perms recursively like that unless you know what you're doing.
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| 17:10 | <mikedavisong> lns: yeah i guess so...
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| 17:10 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: if you just added yourself, you'd have to log out and back in.
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| 17:10 | <mikedavisong> i could fxxk up the system pretty bad by doing this
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| 17:10 | <Lns> yes. yes you could. ;)
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| 17:10 | <lfaraone> mikedavisong: or worse, enable a security hole.
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc_> or both!
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| 17:11 | <mikedavisong> ha!
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| 17:11 | <Lns> hehe
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| 17:11 | * lfaraone will be back, good luck. | |
| 17:11 | <Lns> mikedavisong: try http://www.perlfect.com/articles/chmod.shtml
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| 17:11 | <mikedavisong> kewl
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| 17:12 | <Lns> seems fairly well laid out
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| 17:12 | <mikedavisong> i will read up on this first and play with it on a test system
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| 17:12 | so i dont get fired for bringing down the system
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| 17:12 | =P
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| 17:12 | thanks guys
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| 17:13 | <Lns> :) good idea! hehe
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| 17:14 | <mikedavisong> lns: is the chmod part of the ACL?
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| 17:14 | <mikedavisong> lns: just to make sure i dont get confused
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| 17:15 | <Lns> mikedavisong: ACLs go beyond standard unix permission theory - but they all share the ideas and practices
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| 17:15 | they're separate from chmod (they use 'setfacl' command)
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| 17:15 | <mikedavisong> lns: okie. so which one is a better option? chmod or acl?
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| 17:15 | <Lns> they accomplish the same general goals though.
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| 17:16 | <mikedavisong> lns: i mean easier to manage and implement
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| 17:16 | <Lns> standard perms will always be *easier* to manage, but they have their limitations (which ACL takes care of).
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| 17:16 | <mikedavisong> got it
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| 17:16 | thanks. have a nice weekend
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| 17:16 | <Lns> you too, good luck!
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| 17:16 | <mikedavisong> thanks
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| 17:41 | <kusznir_> Ok, making some progress...and some steps backward.
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| 17:41 | It seems that now for some reason the image that is getting created has some sort of problem...my thin client shows /etc/resolv.conf as being present, but whenever I try and use it (cat /etc/resolv.conf), I get an Input/Output error.
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| 17:42 | /etc/resolv.conf is perfectly readable and correct on the host machine.
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| 17:42 | err... "on the host machine" == in the chroot.
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| 17:42 | I also made some other changes to files there and they are in the nbd image.
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| 17:43 | I've re-made the image several times, but all without any success. Any suggestions?
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| 17:50 | <kusznir_> And with respect to my first original question, it appears that when I use an IP address for my alternate host, ldm exits with "assertion GTK_IS_WIDGET(child) failed.
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| 18:10 | <johnny> try ubuntu or debian? :)
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