IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 September 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:24 | <meo> alkisg: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/d93h3q/psa_linux_terminal_server_project_is_no_longer/
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> meo: great :)
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| 07:25 | * alkisg never uses reddit, but understand that many do... | |
| 07:30 | <alkisg> Hmm many responses there in such a short time; maybe the new LTSP does need to focus on publicity for a while...
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| 07:35 | <meo> I think that subreddit was just bored
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| 07:36 | but for me personally discovering the new ltsp was the biggest surprise, and it wasnt easy to figure out that it's a completely different beast from ltsp5
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| 07:37 | or that it existed at all, because no mention of it was anywhere, I essentially discovered it by googling the ltsp5 github repo and instead stepping on ltsp/ltsp
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| 07:39 | and probably a lot of distro-specific docs, and wikipedia would have to be updated..
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| 13:14 | <gp> I am having to replace a few clients that have gone bad. One in particular was an older intel nuc. I have replaced it with a newer model of the intel nuc. The new one seems to only support UEFI network boot. Is there anything I need to do specifically for UEFI booting?
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| 13:31 | <mwalters> I regret clicking that link... a bunch of people getting super toxic over the sematics of the "T" in LTSP ;)
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| 13:31 | semantics*
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| 13:32 | reddit: not sure what I expected
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| 13:32 | <alkisg> gp: the new LTSP supports UEFI, the old one doesn't
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| 13:32 | !install
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| 13:32 | <ltsp> install: To install LTSP19+: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/wiki/installation. To install LTSP5: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 13:32 | <alkisg> mwalters: eh, the older terminals weren't remote anyway, they were local :P
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| 13:33 | There's no "thin" in LTSP :)
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| 13:33 | <mwalters> lol
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| 13:33 | ITT: a bunch of people who do nothing poopooing someone who actually does something
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| 13:34 | thanks for all your hardwork, alkisg :)
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> If I were signed up in reddit, I'd answer some comments there, but ... I don't feel like it
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| 13:34 | Thank you to mwalters :)
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| 13:34 | *too
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| 13:34 | <mwalters> lol, I'm not sure it'd do any good ;)
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| 13:38 | <gp> alkisg: thanks. 19+ is uefi + legacy out of the box? or I need to check my current version (probably a few years old as of now)
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> gp, yes it supports both uefi and legacy, but NOT thin clients
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| 13:39 | Only fat clients
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| 13:39 | <gp> alkisg: Ah that might be my problem. This client is set as thin. I will try fat
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> Booting is the same for both thin and fat
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| 13:40 | I.e. ltsp5 doesn't support uefi thin nor uefi fat
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| 13:41 | <meo> gp: ltsp5 and this ltsp are _very_ different
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| 13:41 | alkisg: I've been reading up on wayland and x2go, I wanna try and put together a thin client implementation eventually
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| 13:41 | multimedia prolly wont work
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| 13:43 | <gp> Ah, so I was using ltsp-pnp version for clients. Looks like this is now called chrootless. I will try the newer version
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| 13:44 | alkisg: I read - In case you end up choosing Ubuntu MATE 18.04, @alkisg recommends running the following commands after installation, to avoid some problematic packages
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| 13:44 | is ubuntu 18.04 still a good choice?
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| 13:44 | or due to this should I use something else
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| 13:45 | i use ubuntu mate 16.04 now
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| 13:48 | perhaps I should just snapshot my current ltsp and try the parallel install.
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| 13:53 | <mwalters> gp: you can get UEFI working on ltsp5, but I'm not certain anyone has the brain cycles to spare in explaining it ;)
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| 13:54 | <mwalters> in short: you need a signed grubnet elf, configure it, and then reconfigure DHCP to serve that to uefi clients
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| 13:55 | the tutorials explaining how to get a live CD to netboot should get you like 80% of the way there, I think... picking out what is relevant, or what you're missing is some of the hard part
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> gp: ubuntu 18.04 mate with the new ltsp is a great choice
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| 13:56 | * alkisg has done uefi booting in ltsp5, secure boot/kernel isn't a requirement, but yeah... no brain cycles to spare to document all this :) | |
| 13:57 | <mwalters> I'm not 100% certain you can disable secure boot on those intel nucs
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| 13:57 | (that's the same box that prompted me to open that can of worms)
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| 13:58 | <alkisg> ipxe isn't signed either, so ltsp19+ doesn't support secureboot, unless you get a special ipxe build that is signed from microsoft; this exists, but it's not widely available
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| 13:58 | And while grubefi is signed, it's a bit of pain currently
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| 13:58 | <mwalters> oh I forgot you're using ipxe and not grub
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| 13:59 | <alkisg> The ipxe devs have been trying for 2 years now to get MS to sign it :)
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| 13:59 | <mwalters> sounds about right
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| 14:01 | <gp> mwalters: I found an option to disable secure boot. I haven't confirmed it actually works other than the UI displays an empty check box
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| 14:02 | <mwalters> 0959 mwalters | sounds about right
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| 14:02 | ;)
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| 14:05 | <gp> mwalters: that sounds like trouble. Did you get the nucs to work?
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| 14:06 | mwalters: here is a photo of the bios screen: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UJgj7SniKtbxqjap9
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| 14:06 | <mwalters> I only have one. I did get it to work using grubnet
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| 14:09 | <gp> Gonna see what happens with LTSP19 in a VM. If that boots the new nuc probably good to upgrade the system anyways
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| 14:10 | otherwise ill be scratching my head for awhile geting grubnet working lol
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| 14:10 | thanks all
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| 14:37 | <AzuresNation> Okay, complete noob alert with me. How does LTSP compare to Thistation
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| 14:49 | <gp> not familiar with thistation but ive had a very positive experience with LTSP
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| 15:03 | <gp> alkisg: I've been reading about the new work you've done. Wow!
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| 15:03 | <||cw> thinstation is just a thin client OS, ltsp is a linux focused thin/diskless management system, with the very useful option of running the OS instance on the client which increases performance greatly linux diskless desktops
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| 15:06 | you can do a generic thin client with ltsp, it's actually how I use it, but it's not really what it's for.
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| 15:10 | <gp> ||cw: I noticed he left a few minutes after asking his question =( so he didn't get the info
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| 15:23 | <nethfel> Hi all, I'm experimenting with LTSP in a VB environment - working fairly well so far, but I'm curious - aside from configuring the master image to use some remote authentication, is there a way to add users without rebuilding the image?
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| 15:25 | <gp> You shouldn't have to rebuild the image to add a user? Auth is server side
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| 15:27 | <nethfel> Well, I added a user on the server box and the image was claiming user unknown
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| 15:28 | let me try it again, make sure I didn't fat finger anything
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| 15:30 | <gp> Well, I am upgrading from LTSP5 for the first time so it could have changed. But the clients ssh into the server for auth in my setup. And users are authed on the server via ldap. But perhaps this has changed in newer versions. Probably not though
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| 15:32 | <nethfel> I don't know - it's authenticating passwords against the server (I changed a password of a user and that worked) but a new user (johndoe) it's throwing a user unknown at me
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| 15:35 | yeah, I just created another user (testuser) that isn't in the image, and its throwing a "User testuser doesn't exist"
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| 15:37 | I haven't messed with the original LTSP in years and wanted to try it out again for a potential lab scenario. I thought all users on the master server would be authenticated, but doesn't seem so. Unless I missed a step somewhere in the install/setup
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| 15:39 | <gp> nethfel: Sorry I can't be more helpful yet. I would hang around until someone with more experience chimes in
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| 15:39 | nethfel: I am guessing it is a configuration problem
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| 15:41 | <ogra> nethfel, LTSP operates completely through ssh ... so if a user can ssh in it will also be able to log in on the client
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| 15:42 | (via the graphical login)
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| 15:42 | there is no need (and it is actualy discouraged) to create users in the image ... thats a security hole you really dont want to open
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> nethfel: are you trying the old or the new ltsp?
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| 15:47 | !install
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| 15:47 | <ltsp> install: To install LTSP19+: https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/wiki/installation. To install LTSP5: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> Which of those?
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| 15:47 | The new ltsp currently requires to run `ltsp initrd` after adding new users or updating ltsp.conf
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| 15:48 | (this only needs half a sec to run)
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| 15:53 | <nethfel> LTSP19+, first one.
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| 15:53 | Ok, so that's where my problem is :)
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| 15:54 | well, hopefully - will the ltsp initrd command push the update to already running systems?
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| 15:59 | didn't seem to, had to reboot the client machine to get the update; I'm guessing an ldap server would work better in this scenario
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> nethfel: we might develop a way to push ltsp.conf and passwd/group to running clients later on
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| 16:17 | But currently it's not a priority
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| 16:17 | It's just a couple of lines in a script if you put these to the nfs share
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| 16:31 | <nethfel> Well, honestly, right now I'm just testing with a few VMs (one server, two client) - I really think that in a regular environment I'd probably implement an LDAP config and use that in the client image for authentication - I assume it wouldn't need to rebuild an initrd on new users added to an ldap server when using ldap for authentication?
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| 16:37 | <uumas> nethfel: No. It's needed only for updating the local passwd file.
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| 16:39 | <nethfel> That's what I assumed as that's how I remembered the old LTSP to work, but I figured I'd better ask incase something else changed too :) . I will say I really am enjoying how this new version seems VERY simple to implement and have a working environment really quick
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| 19:54 | <alkisg> LTSP5 used the SSH connection to the server to get the user info; this isn't safe, it's easily exploitable. If the "add users without client reboot" functionality appears to be needed frequently, another form of retrieving the updated user list will be necessary
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| 19:55 | Long term goal could be to rewrite epoptes as an https server, and use that to control the clients too
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> especially using the user's own connection to determine user info
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> Yeah, which is what ltsp5 does
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> i'm forgetting if ltsp19 improved on that angle?
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| 19:55 | issue
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> LTSP 19 runs `ssh server exit`, it doesn't read any output
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| 19:56 | As long as the connection is successful, the user is authenticated
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| 19:56 | Of course, if the user has control over the tftp server or injects things etc, he can manipulate ltsp.img; but that's a different attack vector
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 19:57 | <alkisg> (passwd is inside ltsp.img now, retrieved once at boot)
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> cool.
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| 19:58 | that sounds "better" :)
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| 19:59 | <vagrantc> i need to actually try this new thing ... i've discussed and talked about it plenty, but not actually tried it :)
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> And maybe push it to experimental and do the ltsp5 migration dance...
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| 19:59 | But... no hurry :D
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> need to sort out some last issues with ltsp5 too first
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> A school reported that booting 10 clients over 100 mbps needed 5 mins with nbd (I don't know how they lived with that), then they tried nfs + ltsploop and it needed 15 minutes, and finally nfs + the new readahead fix, and went down to 1.5 minute
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc> yay for progress!
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> The new LTSP feels a lot more stable, even if it's still not very mature and gets frequent updates / changes
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| 20:03 | Today I did the last thing that schools here wanted, i.e. user list customization (to only show guest01, a-01 and b-01 in pc01); so I guess things will settle down a bit
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| 20:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc: `ltsp initrd` puts the ltsp code plus ltsp.conf to /srv/tftp/ltsp/ltsp.img. I want to call that from our ltsp.postinst, if I detect that the target file is there (i.e. it was ran in the past); that's a bit similar to update-initramfs. Do you see anything bad in doing so?
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| 20:13 | Hmm actually it's getting late, 'night all :)
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you may want to use dpkg triggers for that
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| 20:44 | <gp_alt> I am not having luck with ltsp ipxe
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| 20:44 | https://pastebin.com/21Cmrcky
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| 20:44 | LTSP command failed: wget -q https://github.com/ltsp/binaries/releases/latest/download/memtest.0 -O /srv/tftp/ltsp/memtest.0
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| 20:48 | <gp_alt> Seemed like it was downloading the file. Not sure what the error was. I kept running until there were no more files to download. Here is the output:
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| 20:48 | https://pastebin.com/SLZd1Gmt
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| 20:49 | <quinox> what about: wget https://github.com/ltsp/binaries/releases/latest/download/memtest.0
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| 20:49 | <gp_alt> quinox: ?
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| 20:49 | <quinox> I see 'section_list: not found', something more than just wget is wrong
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| 20:50 | <gp_alt> quinox: oh i pasted. it is the result of ltsp ipxe
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| 20:50 | <quinox> does /srv/tftp/ltsp exist?
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| 20:51 | <gp_alt> That is in the paste output. Yes. After running 5 times it seems to download one file and exit. Last run indicated all files existed and it exited successfully
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| 20:51 | quinox: whoops. sorry. it is in the second paste
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| 20:52 | https://pastebin.com/21Cmrcky && https://pastebin.com/SLZd1Gmt my mistake
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| 20:52 | pastebin thought I was spam. Had to do a captcha
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| 21:06 | Hrm not getting a working boot though
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| 21:12 | quinox: ah I see that now too. bummer. I've tried root to rerun but no luck
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| 21:12 | ltsp -o ipxe -b --> https://pastebin.com/ECacHRP4
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| 21:15 | Just trying to get a hello world going at this point. So I think I'll toy with it tomorrow with fresh eyes. Thanks for the help today everyone
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| 22:02 | <meo> section_list: not found is normal
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| 22:04 | https://github.com/ltsp/binaries/releases/latest/download/memtest.0 definitely exists so you should run wget explicitly and see what happens
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| 22:04 | aw he gooon
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