IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 2 May 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:47 | <bennabiy> alkisg: Seems that a stock ltsp install works fine, but it looks like it does not quite get the dhcp stuff right. It adds the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf but does not update the /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server to reflect the location of the /etc/ltsp file, either by setting the variable, or by actually changing the file.
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| 03:47 | And it seems tftp needs a little work to get it working as well.
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| 07:00 | <alkisg> bennabiy: ubuntu is using the old defaults there, with tftpd and isc-dhcp instead of dnsmasq, and I don't think those defaults receive much testing anymore... file a bug, maybe stgraber will consider installing only dnsmasq by default
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| 08:30 | <ogra_> bennabiy, wow, thats a gross bug ... according to the dhcpd changelog it should still be there
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| 08:30 | bennabiy, please file it
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| 08:31 | oh, wait, you said /etc/init.d ... thats obsolete
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> Maybe he meant /etc/default/
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| 08:31 | <ogra_> sysvinit scripts are dead and done for most services
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> Or, /etc/dhcpd/*
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| 08:32 | <ogra_> it is fine in the upstart job as it should be
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> I don't think there are configuration options in sysvinit scripts
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| 08:32 | There should be some #include directive inside the stock dhcpd.conf
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| 08:32 | <ogra_> iot originially was a patch to the sysvinit script
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| 08:32 | and moved to the upstart job when sysvinit support was dropped
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| 08:33 | ogra@anubis:~/Devel/packages/isc-dhcp-4.2.4$ grep ltsp debian/isc-dhcp-server.isc-dhcp-server.upstart
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| 08:33 | if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ]; then
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| 08:33 | CONFIG_FILE=/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 08:33 | if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ]; then
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| 08:33 | CONFIG_FILE=/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 08:33 | all fine
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> ./debian/isc-dhcp-server.isc-dhcp-server6.upstart: if [ -f /etc/ltsp/dhcpd6.conf ]; then
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| 08:34 | So yeah it's in upstart...
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> Someone using isc-dhcp should try to drop all that though, and implement it as `ltsp-config isc-dhcp-server`
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| 08:38 | <ogra_> i think it is pointless ... debian is about to make the switch to systemd soon
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| 08:38 | and ubuntu will probably in 2-3 months
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| 08:39 | https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2014/05/msg00001.html
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| 08:39 | there was just a sprint to finish the worst bits
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| 08:39 | <alkisg> ltsp-config would work with any init system, even on gentoo :)
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| 08:40 | <ogra_> without mangling the init script ?
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| 08:40 | <alkisg> Right
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| 08:40 | <ogra_> ah, cool
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| 08:40 | all theese modern tools
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| 08:40 | <alkisg> We use ltsp-config to sed through services configuration files
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| 08:40 | * ogra_ feels old | |
| 08:40 | <alkisg> We can do that because it's usually ran by the sysadmin
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| 08:40 | Not by a postinst script
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| 08:41 | It's nothing new, it just saves us from having to file bugs everywhere about supporting tool.d/ configuration dirs...
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| 10:11 | <ogra_> alkisg, OOOH !
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| 10:12 | alkisg, HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> ogra_: thanks!!!! :)
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| 15:43 | <Yaann> Hi !
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| 15:45 | I'm looking for a way to properly shutdown a system with a rootfs on nbd
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| 15:45 | <bennabiy> Happy birthday Alkisg :)
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| 15:46 | <Yaann> alkisg seems to be the guy who knows how to do that :)
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| 15:46 | I already found the stuff about /run/sendsigs.omit.d/ but the server never receives a proper disconnect
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| 15:47 | It seems that I could generate a shutdown initramfs but I don't know to properly do it on ubuntu
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> Yaann: what version of Ubuntu?
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| 15:51 | there are some patches in the newest versions of LTSP that may fix bugs related to NBD shutdown
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| 15:51 | <Yaann> trusty
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| 15:51 | <ogra_> vagrantc, note thats a generic nbd root ... not ltsp ...
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| 15:52 | Yaann, no shutdown initramfs on ubuntu (yet ... we dont use systemd yet)
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| 15:52 | (nor do we use dracut anywhere)
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| 15:52 | <Yaann> ogra_: I might look at the source code of ltsp
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| 15:53 | <ogra_> well, vagrantc might be able to point you to something
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> oh.
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| 15:58 | what's a shutdown initramfs?
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| 15:59 | there are some ugly hacks for "proper" nbd shutdown, although we never seemed to need them on Debian.
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| 16:00 | <Yaann> A shutdown initramfs is supposed to kill properly the rootfs daemon
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| 16:01 | <championofcyrodi> is there a way to enable the ltsp login manager to utilize nxclient on the backend dropdown? rather than to replace the images /etc/rc2.d/S25ltsp-client-core ?
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| 16:02 | although I have thick clients working. There are concerns about the developer IDE's home folder being network mounted.
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| 16:02 | and possible latency with certain plugins.
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| 16:02 | like PHPStorm
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| 16:03 | <ogra_> vagrantc, some exotic think dracut and systemd can use as i understood it
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| 16:03 | *thing
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| 16:03 | <Yaann> ogra_: vagrantc Yep for instance : https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/boot/dracut/dracut.html#_dracut_on_shutdown
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| 16:04 | <ogra_> right, but there is no dracut in debian or ubuntu
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| 16:04 | <Yaann> Yep, but I guess people putting their rootfs on iSCSI have the same problem, no ?
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| 16:05 | <ogra_> i think they just remount / ro ... and make sure the daemon is the last thing that gets killed
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| 16:06 | <Yaann> In this case the kernel shuts down properly, the problem is that the server is neved notified that the client as gone away
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| 16:06 | <ogra_> probably because your network is gone before
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| 16:07 | (so it would just kill whats in ram, but the info never gets through)
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> well, dracut is in Debian, it's just not the default
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> wow, so it loads an initramfs and switches to it as part of the shutdown process?
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| 16:13 | <Yaann> yep
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> that seems much cleaner than what we're doing with nbd... heh.
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| 16:20 | <Yaann> vagrantc: ogra_ : I found the hack
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| 16:20 | in nbd-disconnect
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc> isn't it evil? :)
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| 16:21 | * ogra_ is happy that after he implemented nbd rootfs in ltsp someone else had to sort out all the ugly bits :P | |
| 16:22 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 16:24 | <ogra_> hmm, but how would nbvd-disconnect work on a normal system ?
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| 16:25 | you will surely have to make sure the network stays up til the end
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> i don't think the network gets torn down
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| 16:25 | <Yaann> ogra_: It should, I'm going to give it a try
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> well, got a cubieboard booting to LTSP with debian's 3.14 kernel...
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| 16:26 | although, no video output, no usb, so it's of... limited use.
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| 16:27 | <ogra_> well, i see that sysvinit surely calls S35networking and only then S60umountroot
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> although the excercise is getting me to re-think how to do semi-generic LTSP booting for arm based systems
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| 16:28 | <ogra_> (on shutdown/reboot)
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| 16:29 | <vagrantc> but i don'tthink S35networking takes down things that ifupdown didn't set up.
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| 16:30 | or at least, isn't configured to set up
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| 16:32 | <ogra_> ah, right, nbd-root would have set it up earlier anyway
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> networking gets set up by the initramfs
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| 16:37 | which has it's own set up issues
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| 16:37 | AoE was pretty cool in that you could boot a thin-client without any ip address
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| 17:16 | <Yaann> ogra_: vagrantc : it works
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| 17:16 | <ogra_> :)
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| 19:12 | <gbaman> hey vagrantc, suggestion on a weird bug, some of my LTSP installs seem to have it. It just sits for 30 seconds waiting before it continues booting
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| 19:13 | It is before it starts grabbing anything from the server it seems?
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| 19:13 | Raspberry Pis
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| 19:13 | but only on some of my virtual servers?
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| 19:15 | A teacher was trialing my Raspberry Pi system and it can be seen in his video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A09LuvdAotM#t=74
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> dns issue?
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| 19:30 | sounds like a dns timeout or something ...
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| 19:30 | <gbaman> ok
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> gbaman: where exactly in the process?
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| 19:31 | <gbaman> it is before anything from the server comes over it seems
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| 19:31 | so DNS would make sense
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| 19:32 | getting screenshot
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| 19:35 | <gbaman_> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-5.JPG
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| 19:36 | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-6.JPG
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| 19:36 | the first one is what happens after
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| 19:36 | and the second one is what it sits on for 30 seconds
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| 19:36 | if it was a DNS issue vagrantc, how would one check?
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> meh
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| 19:37 | gbaman_: you there?
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| 19:37 | <gbaman_> yeah?
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> ah, saw gbaman leave, but gbaman_ is still here
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| 19:38 | <gbaman_> had to switch from ethernet so network dropped
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| 19:38 | needed ethernet for pi :)
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| 19:38 | <vagrantc> possible negotiation for NBD swap?
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| 19:38 | <gbaman_> it was about though even before NBD swap was enabled
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| 19:38 | so I dont think that is it
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> did you put any hooks in there that make DNS calls?
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| 19:39 | <gbaman_> nope
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> or, reference things by name rather than ip
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| 19:39 | <gbaman_> nope
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| 19:40 | I didnt add anything that makes a network connection into the initrd
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> did you figure out how to get your hooks added into the initramfs by dropping them into hook dirs rather than manually constructing the initramfs?
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| 19:42 | <gbaman_> i havent started on that bit yet :)
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> kind of an aside, but might be related...
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| 19:42 | <gbaman_> is next on my todo list
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| 19:42 | ok, will try with an unmodified initrd
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| 19:46 | nope, same issue with an unmodified initrd vagrantc
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> what version of ltsp?
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| 19:48 | <gbaman_> most recent?
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| 19:48 | that server in the video was installed 2 days ago
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> most recent tells me nothing.
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| 19:49 | <gbaman_> interestingly though there is an update for ltsp-server though
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| 19:49 | for my dev server
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> i have no idea what you think of as recent.
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| 19:49 | <gbaman_> 2 days ago
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| 19:49 | <gbaman_> my dev server was a month ago
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> try the output from ltsp-info
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| 19:50 | <gbaman_> waiting for it to update
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> "most recent" is roughly equivalent to "could be just about anything"
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| 19:50 | <gbaman_> server information:
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| 19:50 | No LSB modules are available.
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| 19:50 | Distributor ID: Debian
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| 19:50 | Description: Debian GNU/Linux 7.5 (wheezy)
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| 19:50 | Release: 7.5
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| 19:50 | Codename: wheezy
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| 19:50 | server packages:
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| 19:50 | ii ldm-server 2:2.2.11-2
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| 19:50 | un ltsp-client <none>
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| 19:50 | un ltsp-client-core <none>
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| 19:51 | ii ltsp-docs 1.1-1
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> !pastebin
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| 19:51 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 19:51 | <gbaman_> ii ltsp-server 5.4.2-6
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| 19:51 | un ltsp-utils <none>
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| 19:51 | ii ltspfs 1.1-2
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| 19:51 | packages in chroot: /opt/ltsp/armhf
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| 19:51 | ii ldm 2:2.2.11-2
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| 19:51 | ii ldm-themes 12.07.1
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| 19:51 | ii ltsp-client 5.4.2-6
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| 19:51 | ii ltsp-client-core 5.4.2-6
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> you have just spammed #ltsp :P
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| 19:51 | <gbaman_> ii ltspfsd 1.1-2
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| 19:51 | ii ltspfsd-core 1.1-2
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| 19:51 | found: /opt/ltsp/armhf/etc/lts.conf
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| 19:51 | found: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/armhf/lts.conf
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| 19:51 | found image: /opt/ltsp/images/armhf.img
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| 19:51 | hmm, that was maybe a little spammy..
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| 19:51 | :D
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> looks like you're already out of date :P
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| 19:51 | <gbaman_> I noticed
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> gbaman_: use a pastebot next time.
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| 19:51 | <gbaman_> it is updating
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| 19:52 | nope, same issue
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| 19:53 | that was after an apt-get upgrade
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| 19:53 | would any services need restarted?
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| 19:54 | or, actually, am rebooting server
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| 19:56 | and entire ltsp system has just fallen over..
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| 19:56 | great...
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> not that it will likely change anything, it just pointed out how useless the term "most current" is.
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| 19:57 | but also upgrade your chroots
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| 19:57 | <gbaman_> seems a reboot wasnt the best of ideas...
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| 19:57 | i dont reboot my linux vms much..
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> at any rate, look at the scripts in /opt/ltsp/*/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/ ... that seems to be where it's hanging.
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| 19:58 | alternately, it might be some of the early scripts in /opt/ltsp/*/usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d
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| 19:59 | <gbaman_> photo-11.JPG
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| 19:59 | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1122948/temp/ltsp-7.JPG
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| 20:00 | I hate reboots...
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> looks like your nbd server isn't running
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| 20:01 | wonder if you have the same issue with NFS...
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| 20:01 | <gbaman_> am assuming thats a "please test" :)
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| 20:01 | testing now
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> sure :)
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| 20:03 | <gbaman_> ok, NFS is booting fine, but has the 30 second pause there too
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| 20:05 | <vagrantc> https://xkcd.com/349/
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| 20:06 | <gbaman_> yip
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| 20:06 | :D
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| 20:06 | ok, NBD is fixed :)
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| 20:07 | restarted nbd-server
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| 20:07 | still have 30 second lag
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| 20:07 | back to square 1
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| 20:07 | https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b6da40514cf97a09d474
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| 20:07 | thats the ltsp-info
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> haven't upgraded your chroot yet
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| 20:09 | <gbaman_> for ltsp-client?
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> oh, maybe raspbian's lagging behind debian
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| 20:09 | <gbaman_> will see, doing it now
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> it was just a minor fix for sound
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| 20:09 | <gbaman_> when was the update pushed?
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| 20:10 | yeah, it is in raspbian
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| 20:10 | <vagrantc> gbaman_: ltsp-client being outdated just indicates that it hasn't been upgraded, and there may be other things that upgrading will hopefully resolve though i doubt it'll fix your problem
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| 20:11 | <gbaman_> i doubt it, seeing as Ben (teacher in the video) is having the same issue
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| 20:11 | he installed the full system from scratch 2 evenings a go
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| 20:11 | *ago
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> so... it's always done this?
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| 20:12 | or it's a new problem?
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| 20:12 | <gbaman_> for quite a while, yes
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| 20:12 | never really bugged me as i wasnt bothered about speed
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| 20:12 | but now I am
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| 20:13 | as the rest of the stuff is fixed :)
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| 20:13 | i had assumed it was fixed, as my other VMs dont seem to have the issue?
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| 20:13 | but then I saw ben had it
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| 20:13 | so wasnt fixed
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| 20:14 | alksig had mentioned he suspected it had something to do with DNS while back, but never got back to the topic
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| 20:17 | <vagrantc> well, look at the initramfs hooks or the init-ltsp.d hooks mentioned earlier
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| 20:17 | <gbaman_> am going to add a pile of echos into the init-bottom
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| 20:38 | <gbaman_> ok vagrantc it isnt init-bottom
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| 20:51 | <sutula> General question: I see Ubuntu 14.04 is out. Is that a decent LTSP server plaform? Some (in other channels) have suggested that LTSP will not work with Unity (lack of local graphics support) and that I'd need to select an alternative desktop such as gnome-flashback.
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| 20:52 | * sutula apologizes to stgraber if he's being asked the same question by achiang | |
| 20:53 | <sutula> I have a very old LTSP server (Debian old-stable) that I need to upgrade to something more recent. Just wondering what this community recommends these days for an LTSP server Linux distribution.
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| 21:00 | <mmetzger> I'm currently hitting some oddball issues w/ 14.04, but likely that's my own environment
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| 21:21 | <sutula> I see that edubuntu has 14.04 support
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| 21:35 | * vagrantc still likes debian | |
| 21:36 | <vagrantc> but i'm a little biased :)
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| 22:25 | <sutula> vagrantc: How well does LTSP work on stable these days?
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| 22:25 | One issue I have is that Debian stable is so slow to update that I'm always missing drivers for specific hardware.
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| 22:30 | <vagrantc> i've mostly only used outdated hardware
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| 22:31 | sometimes you may need to use backports for hardware-specific things, and sometimes it's just dated.
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| 22:31 | i think stable releases are a little more permissive with updates than they used to be, but it still requires someone who actually wants hardware X to work to backport it.
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