IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 January 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:05 | <vagrantc> lns: not that that fixes anything, really...
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| 00:11 | <lns> vagrantc, ahh.. ok thx - that was just brought over from an upgraded server.
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| 00:11 | is pulse installed by default? I thought I had to install pulse by hand w/Ubuntu
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| 00:11 | (gutsy i386)
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| 00:37 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:40 | <vagrantc> lns: well, if you're using ltsp-server-standalone on the server and ltsp-client in the chroot
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| 00:40 | it should all be there.
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| 00:41 | <lns> vagrantc, ltsp-client in the chroot... ? is that not set up by ltsp-server[-standalone]?
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| 00:41 | err
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| 00:41 | ltsp-build-client ?
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| 00:42 | <vagrantc> lns: yes, unless you changed something
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| 00:42 | it is possible to have an ltsp install without it, but you have to really try.
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| 00:42 | <lns> i was wondering wtf that package was for... heh
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| 00:42 | wow
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| 00:43 | so chroot /blahblah apt-get install ltsp-client ?
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| 00:43 | <vagrantc> lns: you should *never* have to do that manually
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| 00:43 | <lns> oh ok
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| 00:43 | i always sudo ltsp-build-client
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| 00:43 | <vagrantc> at some point, i should just tell white lies
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| 00:44 | <lns> oooooook..? =p
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| 00:44 | don't follow
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| 00:44 | of course that's easy for me to do ;)
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| 00:44 | <vagrantc> technically, if you run ltsp-build-client --early-packages ltsp-client-core, you could get an install without pulseaudio
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| 00:45 | but the default is to install all the bells and whistles
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| 00:45 | <lns> ahh
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| 00:45 | what about on the server side?
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| 00:45 | i still remember having to do stuff manually in gutsy (ubuntu not edubuntu/xubuntu)
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| 00:46 | <vagrantc> not having used ubuntu i can't say for sure, but it shouldn't require anything special
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| 00:46 | <lns> ala https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio
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| 00:47 | just that i would think - my clients' audio isn't detected until this is in place (at least afaik - been a few weeks since i installed my last svr)
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| 00:48 | <vagrantc> lns: if you look at the dependencies of ltsp-server-standalone and ltsp-client, you should find some of those packages in there.
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| 00:49 | <lns> vagrantc, right - but not just ltsp-server i'm assuming (which I installed last)
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| 00:49 | <vagrantc> lns: correct.
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| 00:49 | <lns> ok
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| 00:49 | =) I want to make my own wiki and collect all of the things i'm doing so i don't keep having to search around ;)
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| 00:50 | feels like the hardest part is keeping all the pieces together
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| 02:56 | <johnny_> beep beep ltsp peeps
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| 02:56 | * johnny_ wonders who's still awake | |
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| 03:54 | <Traveler6> hello
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| 03:55 | where can i find explanations on "how" ltsp5 works? i mean how dhcp + tftp + nfs + ssh come together. ideally with diagrams ;)
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| 04:17 | <johnny_> uhmm... maybe the edubuntu handbook?
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| 04:18 | otherwise.. it's pretty simple to explain.. as long as you know what those services really are
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| 04:18 | client gets IP via dhcp and also gets pointed to a tftp server where it downloads the kernel
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| 04:18 | rcy has joined #ltsp | |
| 04:18 | <johnny_> then it mounts the rootfs via nfs or nbd
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| 04:18 | and starts X via ssh tunnelling
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| 04:18 | that's the short answer anyways
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| 04:30 | <Traveler6> thanks johnny
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| 04:31 | i understand that, i wanted more detail. i will check out the edubuntu handbook
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| 04:34 | <johnny_> what more detail?
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| 04:34 | the handbook isn't meant for more detail
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| 04:35 | it's meant for users
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| 04:35 | i don't know about any "official" diagram for ltsp5
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| 04:35 | any diagram would only show the basics
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| 04:35 | anyways
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| 04:40 | <Traveler6> especially about the SSH bits
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| 04:40 | and LDM
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| 04:40 | how it really works
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| 04:40 | otavio has joined #ltsp | |
| 04:41 | <johnny_> that involves reading about ssh x forwarding
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| 04:41 | there are no ltsp specifics except for ltspfs
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| 04:41 | and there are no nice docs
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| 04:42 | it's all nice
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| 04:42 | err
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| 04:42 | it's all new
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| 04:43 | <Traveler6> ok
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| 04:43 | thanks
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| 04:43 | btw
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| 04:43 | how do i add users? chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 first?
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| 04:43 | <johnny_> no
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| 04:43 | they run off the server
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| 04:43 | just add users to it
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| 04:43 | <Traveler6> ok
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| 04:43 | how about adding software?
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| 04:44 | <johnny_> server too
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| 04:44 | until the localapps stuff is easier
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| 04:44 | <Traveler6> ok
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| 04:44 | <johnny_> until now you'll have to hack it up
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| 04:44 | err then*
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| 04:44 | but i don't have any localapps yet
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| 04:44 | it's a spec on launchpad for the next ltsp steps
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| 04:45 | the edubuntu handbook should mention that kinda stuff tho
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| 04:45 | <Traveler6> i saw it
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| 04:45 | thanks
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| 04:45 | i'll just install it on the server
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| 04:45 | btw
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| 04:45 | right now i have ltsp5 + riplinux on the same network segment
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| 04:45 | clients boot one or the other depending on mac address
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| 04:45 | it's dhcp3-server that does the filtering
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| 04:46 | do you know by chance if i can let the clients choose what to boot with a menu or something like that?
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| 04:46 | <johnny_> uhmm.. i have heard of such things with pxelinux
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| 04:46 | but i have no idea how to do it :)
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| 04:46 | <Traveler6> ok :)
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| 04:46 | <johnny_> but that should get you started
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| 04:47 | and if you come back in thsi room a few hours from now
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| 04:47 | somebody might even be able to point you even farther
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| 04:47 | <Traveler6> great
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| 04:47 | <johnny_> when all the folks wake up
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| 04:47 | but search "pxelinux menu" see if that gets you anywhere
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| 04:49 | <Traveler6> actually the day b4 yesterday i did a pxelinux menu
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| 04:49 | but... it didn't really work
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| 04:50 | i'll try again
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| 04:56 | not sure i can do it since these distros have different root-path
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| 04:56 | and ltsp has no "filename" option in dhcp3 ...
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| 04:56 | etc
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| 04:56 | <johnny_> hmm.. usually you can force the filename
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| 04:56 | and tftp can just use the rootpath and request anything under it
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| 04:56 | of course.. i just use dnsmasq
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| 04:57 | not dhcp
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| 04:57 | <johnny_> bbin20
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| 07:40 | <cdealer__> need some help ... when booting my client its not passing the tftp screen, the dhcp server is giving a ip to the client and gateway, but stops on tftp
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| 07:40 | im using ltsp5 on ubuntu 7.10
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| 07:45 | anyone ???
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| 08:19 | <exodos> cdealer__: is your tftp server running on the same machine as tftp?
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| 08:19 | s/as tftp/as dhcp/
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| 08:45 | <cdealer__> exodos: yeah... the tftp is running on port 69 like supposed to be...
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| 08:46 | using tcpdump there is no data going from the tftp to the client and vice-versa
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| 08:46 | is like the client isnt seeing the tftp ...
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| 08:50 | <jammcq> cdealer__: what distro are you using?
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| 08:53 | <cliebow_> | |
| 08:53 | Kinda broad at the shoulder and narrow at the hip
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| 08:53 | And everybody knew you didn't give no lip to Big Jim
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| 08:53 | <jammcq> :)
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| 09:03 | <cliebow_> Through the dust and the smoke of this man made hell
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| 09:03 | Walked a giant of a man that the coders knew well
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| 09:11 | <cdealer__> jammcq: ubuntu 7.10 and ltsp5
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| 09:21 | MeBadMagic is now known as BadMagic | |
| 09:22 | <cimas> hi guys
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| 09:22 | I got a problem with LTSP5
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| 09:23 | I installed ltsp 5 on my ubuntu gutsy
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| 09:24 | the istallation was smooth, but when I boot the client it keeps me to the login screen (LDM)
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| 09:24 | and when i insert user and pass it keeps me back to the login screen after a while
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| 09:25 | my /var/log/auth.log says
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| 09:26 | Jan 17 16:04:12 adminserver sshd[4618]: Received signal 15; terminating.
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| 09:26 | Jan 17 16:04:12 adminserver sshd[6596]: Server listening on :: port 22.
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| 09:26 | Jan 17 16:04:12 adminserver sshd[6596]: error: Bind to port 22 on 0.0.0.0 failed: Address already in use.
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| 09:26 | Jan 17 16:04:32 adminserver sshd[7031]: Accepted password for provaltsp from 192.168.0.250 port 51054 ssh2
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| 09:26 | Jan 17 16:04:32 adminserver sshd[7039]: pam_unix(ssh:session): session opened for user provaltsp by (uid=0)
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| 09:26 | pass is accepted but cannot get into X
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| 09:26 | any hint?
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| 09:28 | what is this error about port 22?
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| 09:34 | <cliebow_> cimas:generally return to login screen means you should sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys followed by sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 09:35 | <cimas> ok ... let me check
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| 09:40 | cliebow: no luck ... again back to login screen
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| 09:42 | <cliebow_> ogra mentioned looking in .xsession-errors in the users homedir..
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| 09:42 | <cimas> ok ... let me see
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| 09:43 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:44 | <cimas> here is my .xsession-errors
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| 09:44 | (process:5596): Gtk-WARNING **: This process is currently running setuid or setgid.
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| 09:44 | This is not a supported use of GTK+. You must create a helper
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| 09:44 | program instead. For further details, see:
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| 09:44 | http://www.gtk.org/setuid.html
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| 09:44 | Refusing to initialize GTK+.
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| 09:44 | (process:5600): Gtk-WARNING **: This process is currently running setuid or setgid.
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| 09:44 | This is not a supported use of GTK+. You must create a helper
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| 09:45 | program instead. For further details, see:
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| 09:45 | http://www.gtk.org/setuid.html
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| 09:45 | Refusing to initialize GTK+.
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| 09:45 | /etc/gdm/Xsession: Beginning session setup...
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| 09:45 | SESSION_MANAGER=local/adminserver:/tmp/.ICE-unix/5593
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| 09:45 | Avviso del window manager: Lettura del file della sessione /home/cimas/.metacity/sessions/default0.ms fallita: Apertura del file "/home/cimas/.metacity/sessions/default0.ms" fallita: Nessun file o directory
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | Tracker version 0.6.3 Copyright (c) 2005-2007 by Jamie McCracken (jamiemcc@gnome.org)
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| 09:45 | This program is free software and comes without any warranty.
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| 09:45 | It is licensed under version 2 or later of the General Public License which can be viewed at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
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| 09:45 | Initialising tracker...
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| 09:45 | Could not set idle IO priority...attempting best effort 7 priority
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | ** Message: Server desktop remoto non avviato
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtkrc"
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| 09:45 | /home/cimas/.gtkrc-2.0:2: Impossibile trovare il file da includere: "(null)/Clearlooks/gtk-2.0/gtk
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| 09:45 | <cliebow_> cimas:whoa!
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| 09:45 | <lns> pastebot
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| 09:45 | <jammcq> DUDE !!!!!! please don't paste big stuff like that to the channel
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| 09:45 | <lns> jeez
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| 09:46 | <jammcq> !pastebot
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| 09:46 | <ltspbot> jammcq: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 09:46 | <jammcq> use the pastebot
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| 09:46 | <cliebow_> you should use pastebot.ltsp.org
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| 09:46 | <cimas> sorry
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| 09:48 | <ltsppbot> "cimas" pasted "content of my .xsession-errors" (103 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/420
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| 09:48 | <cimas> done
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| 09:56 | <cliebow_> cimas:i cant make any sense of it..
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| 09:57 | <cimas> me neither
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| 09:58 | :(
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| 09:59 | opppss
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| 09:59 | i made a mistake
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| 10:00 | I posted the content of the .xsession-error in the admin user home
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| 10:00 | not the one in the client user
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| 10:00 | <cliebow_> pastebot..what you got 8~)
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| 10:01 | K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:01 | <cimas> gonna past the right one
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| 10:02 | <ltsppbot> "cimas" pasted "content of user .xsession-errors" (6 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/421
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| 10:03 | <cimas> ccliebow: can u make sense of that one?
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| 10:03 | it says xrdb: Connection refused
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| 10:03 | xrdb: Can't open display 'localhost:11.0'
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| 10:03 | <cliebow_> sort of..
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| 10:03 | is this completely stock ltsp5 gutsy
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| 10:04 | ?
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| 10:05 | <cimas> yes
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| 10:06 | <cliebow_> and x is certainly installed on server..
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| 10:06 | <cimas> yes
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| 10:12 | <cimas> geeee!!!!
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| 10:12 | that what's happened...
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| 10:12 | I installed xfce
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| 10:13 | and then login my client in xfce.... and know what? ... It works
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| 10:13 | !!???
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| 10:13 | <ltspbot> cimas: Error: "!???" is not a valid command.
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| 10:13 | <cimas> whoops
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| 10:13 | does that make any sense to ya?
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| 10:15 | <cliebow_> heh..not really..
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| 10:15 | <cimas> and now gnome works as well!!!
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| 10:15 | <cliebow_> just a kickstart
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| 10:17 | <cimas> is it possible that installing xfce added some sort of config file that was missing before?
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| 10:23 | anyway... many thanks for the help guys
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| 11:21 | <Briareos1> hi! can anyone give me a hint how to set up the DHCP of a WINDOWS 2000 server to forward the clients the to the ltsp-server correctly?
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| 11:21 | <vagrantc> !dhcp
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| 11:21 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: Error: "dhcp" is not a valid command.
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| 11:22 | <vagrantc> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DHCP
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| 11:22 | you'll need to find the windows equivalents for next-server and root-path
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| 11:23 | and filename
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| 11:23 | <Briareos1> that's what i am trying to find here *gg*
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| 11:23 | <vagrantc> i think the example for dnsmasq lists the numeric equivalents. ...
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| 11:24 | ltspbot: learn dhcp as http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DHCP
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| 11:24 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
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| 11:24 | <Briareos1> cheers - i'll have a look
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| 11:24 | <vagrantc> Briareos1: that URL listed mentions some windows dhcp stuff
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| 11:38 | <Briareos1> grr all these dialogs are so confusing
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| 11:43 | <Briareos1> i guess i'll just replace the win2k DHCP by a newly setup linux-one
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| 11:44 | <vagrantc> we would better be able to support you :)
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| 11:51 | hrm.
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| 11:51 | the fedora libexecdir changes don't work for debian
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| 11:51 | some of the things belong in /usr/lib and some in /usr/share
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| 11:51 | warren: is toshio kuratomi on irc?
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| 11:52 | <warren> vagrantc, he is abadger1999
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| 11:52 | <abadger1999> vagrantc: Sure. What needs to be split?
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| 11:52 | rc.d?
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> abadger1999: well, the ldm-script and rc.d stuff belongs in /usr/share on debian
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| 11:53 | <abadger1999> ldm-script belongs in libexecdir.
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> abadger1999: not on debian
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| 11:53 | <abadger1999> Guideline?
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> FHS
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| 11:53 | * vagrantc rummages for a url | |
| 11:53 | <abadger1999> Entry in FHS?
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| 11:54 | I was reading that /usr/share is for data.
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| 11:54 | ldm-script is not really data.
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| 11:54 | I can see things in rc.d being data, though.
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| 11:54 | * vagrantc reads | |
| 11:54 | <abadger1999> As they're being sourced rather than invoked.
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| 11:54 | <vagrantc> rc.d are executed script
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| 11:54 | ah...
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/fhs/fhs-2.3.html#USRSHAREARCHITECTUREINDEPENDENTDATA
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| 11:56 | "It is recommended that application-specific, architecture-independent directories be placed here.It is recommended that application-specific, architecture-independent directories be placed here."
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| 11:56 | ldm-script is definitely architecture-independent
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| 11:56 | <warren> vagrantc, ugh. ogra agreed to libexecdir.
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| 11:57 | <vagrantc> let me check a few more things
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| 11:57 | <abadger1999> It is architecture independent but I disagree that it fits the definition of "data file".
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| 11:57 | <vagrantc> yeah, /usr/share does seem to be focused on "data files"
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| 11:58 | <warren> vagrantc, I was happy keeping it in /usr/share until I realized that it isn't data.
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| 12:03 | <vagrantc> hm. maybe it's not as much of a problem as i thought
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| 12:03 | changing the rc.d directory kind of sucks, but that's not a big deal for debian since it was never present in a stable release.
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| 12:04 | <abadger1999> Cool. And like I say, I'm not attached to where rc.d goes. ogra thought it should go in the same hierarchy as ldm-script so I moved it too.
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| 12:06 | <warren> abadger1999, did you already commit the gcc warnings patch?
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| 12:06 | <abadger1999> warren: No. I felt it was better for you to look it over first.
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| 12:06 | Two eyes are better than one.
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| 12:06 | <lns> FYI Everyone: If you want to help fix the OpenOffice pixmap LTSP crash issue, register and comment on the following issue in the OOo issue:
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| 12:07 | http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=85321
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| 12:07 | <abadger1999> warren: I approved the review request whether you commit that patch or not, though.
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| 12:07 | <warren> abadger1999, it looks safe
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| 12:07 | abadger1999, go ahead and commit it
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| 12:07 | <abadger1999> k
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| 12:07 | <warren> abadger1999, given that we haven't acutally *executed* any of this we'll know for sure later =)
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| 12:08 | lns, hmm, firefox doens't have the same problem?
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| 12:10 | <lns> warren, yes it does
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| 12:10 | but it's being actively worked on in FF3
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| 12:10 | <lns> We need to get some momentum going with OOo too
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| 12:11 | and any other apps that we find that don't pay attention to pixmap caching (at least that's what I think the real issue is)
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| 12:11 | <abadger1999> warren: ldm changes pushed.
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| 12:14 | <lns> Apparently "voting" for the issue in OOo will help it get more attention as well, so if anyone having this issue could do that as well, it will probably give the devs more to work with
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> hrm. also moved /usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d
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| 12:21 | and that was actually part of a stable debian release
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| 12:22 | <PerfDave> Would a workaround for the OOo issue be to use fullscreen VNC rather than XDMCP for the clients?
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| 12:22 | <vagrantc> to /usr/share/ltsp/screen.d ... (although i suggested moving it to /usr/share years ago)
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> hrm. putting this stuff in /usr/lib seems wrong also ... it's no more a library than it is data
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| 12:45 | <warren> lns, I voted for it
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| 12:46 | lns, it seems that only one other person voted for it, and they only voted half of their possible votes
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| 12:46 | <warren> lns, (each person may vote 2 times)
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| 12:46 | <Briareos1> basic question (as i just got worried when i read about the OOo crash ins wrote about): would you run ltsp in a company? I've so far only read about usage in schools ...
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| 12:47 | <warren> Briareos1, many companies and government agencies have used it for years
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| 12:48 | <PerfDave> Briareos1: I've been trying to talk my company into using LTSP to reduce desktop noise and cost.
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| 12:49 | <Briareos1> ok I've now read the bugreport and it seems to be easily avoidable if i just size the client a little higher from the RAM-perspective for the beginning
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| 12:50 | perfdave: well i don't need to talk mine in, but if i change i have full responsability :)
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| 12:50 | <Q-FUNK> PerfDave: simeple trick: talk to the person in charge of budget. once they see just the cost saving in electricity and computer maintenance, they'll beg you to find thin clients.
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| 12:50 | <Briareos1> ggg
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| 12:51 | <PerfDave> Q-FUNK: There is virtually no cost saving for us there.
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| 12:51 | <Briareos1> One of my main reasons to change to thin is that with the current set up there is always some misconfiguration, some programs not up-to-date, client running out of diskspace on systempartition and blabla
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| 12:51 | if i calculate only my worktime against that it completely makes sense
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| 12:52 | <PerfDave> Q-FUNK: The work involved in moving over to an LTSP system actually outweighs the benefits currently. We've got so many racks of servers that our desktop cost and power usage is only a tiny tiny fraction anyway.
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| 12:52 | <Briareos1> warren: could you provide me some interesting links?
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| 12:55 | <warren> Briareos1, these days though, most of the benefit of the LTSP model is the central management part.
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| 12:55 | Briareos1, people might be better off using central network managed workstations instead
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| 12:57 | <lns> warren, ok - just voted my 2 votes
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| 12:58 | <warren> lns, I'm guessing a few hundred people would have to do it in order to get any attention?
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| 12:58 | <Briareos1> warren: what do you mean by "central network managed workstations"?
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| 12:59 | <warren> Briareos1, install and configure software only once, all workstations use it without individual configuration
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| 12:59 | Briareos1, home directories are central as well
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| 12:59 | Briareos1, if a workstation dies, unplug it, plug in another (blank one, maybe no hard drive) and it just works without any configuration.
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| 12:59 | <Briareos1> warren well isn't that what ltsp is about?
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> warren, abadger1999 : thanks for all the cleanup work on ldm
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| 13:00 | <Briareos1> warren or did i just misunderstand your "though" in the sentence?
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| 13:00 | <warren> vagrantc, abadger1999: more cleanup of the autotools stuff in those components are needed, for example there is currently no clean way to get rid of everything generated by autogen.sh
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| 13:00 | vagrantc, also it doens't help that Debian/Ubuntu doesn't actually use it. =)
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| 13:00 | Briareos1, LTSP is mostly thin clients, not diskless workstation
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| 13:00 | <vagrantc> warren: well, we can move towards it
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| 13:01 | <warren> Briareos1, but stuff going on now is enabling the latter.
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| 13:02 | <Briareos1> warren ah i get it - you mean putting the processing needs also mainly to the cpu/gpu of the client
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| 13:03 | <warren> Briareos1, yes, with client hardware getting much cheaper
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| 13:03 | Briareos1, most costs of maintaining many clients are in the labor of maintaining individual machines anyway.
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| 13:10 | <abadger1999> vagrantc: No problem. Regarding screen.d... It's in /usr/share/ltsp in our ltsp-client package. I just looked and see that there's no Makefile so we're deciding on layout in the .spec file (our package build) rather than in an upstream script :-(
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| 13:10 | <vagrantc> abadger1999: sure.
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| 13:10 | <abadger1999> vagrantc, warren: Should we change ltsp-client to create screen.d in /usr/lib instead?
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| 13:11 | <vagrantc> abadger1999: hard to say.
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| 13:12 | abadger1999: it currently supports /usr/lib/ltsp/screen.d and /etc/ltsp/screen.d (with preference for /etc) ... we could just add another layer ...
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| 13:12 | abadger1999: that would maintain backwards compatibility while moving forward at the same time ...
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| 13:13 | abadger1999: and a one-line patch to screen_session :)
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| 13:13 | <sutula> vagrantc: Have you received complaints about the latest etch-backports ltsp-server (5.0.40~bzr20071229-1~40.etch.0) and users not being able to log in?
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| 13:14 | (this can wait if you're busy)
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| 13:14 | <warren> vagrantc, we don't want to maintain a patch against the script that only applies to us.
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> sutula: i haven't
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| 13:14 | warren: well, i mean to put the patch upstream
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| 13:15 | the only cost is an additional directory checked for each call to screen_session, which should be minimal
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| 13:15 | <sutula> vagrantc: I updated my otherwise working server this AM and users couldn't log in. The users were in group fuse, but not plugdev. When I added the users to plugdev as well, they can now log in.
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| 13:15 | <warren> abadger1999, technically it isn't wrong in /usr/share because they are not executed?
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| 13:15 | (are they?)
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| 13:16 | <vagrantc> sutula: that's weird
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| 13:16 | warren: they are executed
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| 13:16 | <sutula> vagrantc: Of course, thumb drives don't work any more either, but I'll look further into that...just wanted to know if this was a known problem
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| 13:17 | <vagrantc> otavio: do you have opinions regarding all this /usr/lib and /usr/share stuff ?
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| 13:17 | <sutula> vagrantc: Anyway, when you get the chance, I'll be around if you want to try some experiments or something.
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| 13:17 | <vagrantc> otavio: we've beentalking about moving some things around, and fedora also uses /usr/libexec (i think)
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| 13:17 | sutula: i'm at a loss as to what to even try ...
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| 13:18 | sutula: what was your previous version?
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| 13:18 | <sutula> vagrantc: Hmmm ...I think the last backport before that
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| 13:18 | <warren> vagrantc, we suggested libexecdir only because it resolves to the right place on both fedora and debian.
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| 13:18 | <sutula> Didn't you change how local devices were being mounted?
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| 13:18 | <warren> vagrantc, /usr/libexec and /usr/lib
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| 13:18 | <abadger1999> yeah we do. Luckily configure makes it easy to redefine libexecdir to /usr/libexec or /usr/lib depending on where you're building
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| 13:18 | <warren> vagrantc, well, and it is the correct
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| 13:19 | <abadger1999> ltsp-client doesn't use autoconf/configure yet, though.
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| 13:19 | <warren> doh
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| 13:19 | <abadger1999> No Makefile so no configure either.
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| 13:20 | <warren> abadger1999, while there is a desire to do this correctly, I also don't want to be so concerned about correctness on the first draft that this slows us down by weeks.
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| 13:20 | <vagrantc> sutula: yes, there's a comment on known issues for the new backport on the wiki page
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| 13:20 | <abadger1999> warren: Sure. We just have to remember to put the screen files in the right place when/if the location is changed in ltsp-client.
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| 13:20 | <Briareos1> ok thanks for the talk - I am off for now. bye
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| 13:23 | <sutula> vagrantc: My guess would be that when the user logs in, something in the automount stuff is dying and the user gets logged out. I don't know enough about how the local devices and mounting work to begin to track it down, but without being in plugdev, users seem to not be able to log in.
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| 13:24 | vagrantc: I did do the symlink as on the wiki page. By the way, the ln -s files are backwards on the wiki page.
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> sutula: well fix it then :P
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| 13:24 | * sutula can do that | |
| 13:25 | <vagrantc> sutula: so the issue is that when the users are in group plugdev, it causes them to log out?
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| 13:25 | sutula: or when they aren't in plugdev ?
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| 13:26 | <sutula> vagrantc: When they aren't in plugdev (Wiki fixed)
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| 13:26 | <vagrantc> sutula: i'll test on my sid install ..
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| 13:27 | why that would matter is perplexing to me ...
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| 13:27 | <sutula> vagrantc: My thin clients have several built-in disk devices, so my guess is that it has something to do with those devices getting mounted at login
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| 13:27 | * johnny tries to think of of a clever codename for the first sabayon release of 2.22 | |
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| 13:32 | <vagrantc> sutula: non-removable media are now disabled by default
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| 13:33 | * sutula wonders how the code tells what's non-removable and what isn't, and whether that's where plugdev comes in | |
| 13:33 | <johnny> will it ever be possible for non removable remedia to be invisible to the thin clients if mounted on the server?
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> sutula: we use udev attributes
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| 13:33 | <johnny> but for the client's own cdroms to still show up
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> sutula: but that's on the client-side, not server-side ...
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| 13:34 | <sutula> vagrantc: Hmmm...client side shouldn't matter
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> sutula: works for me with or without plugdev
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| 13:35 | sutula: on sid....
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| 13:35 | <sutula> vagrantc: Any (simple) way you can test the etch-backport version?
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| 13:35 | <vagrantc> sutula: will test on etch
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| 13:35 | sutula: yes :)
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| 13:36 | * johnny tired of having to register on infinite bug trackers | |
| 13:36 | <vagrantc> sutula: i've got a virtualbox etch server for exactly this purpose :)
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> johnny: using gnome?
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| 13:37 | there's a gconf setting to disable visible volumes
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| 13:37 | if thats what you want to do
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| 13:38 | <johnny> Gadi, well.. i've been triaging bugs for sabayon.. and being annoyed
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| 13:38 | plus i wanted to vote on that OOo bug
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| 13:38 | <Gadi> ah
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| 13:38 | <johnny> got bugs on various distros
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| 13:38 | <Gadi> yeah - the worst part about OSS bugs is you know they can be addressed if you ask enough times
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| 13:39 | :)
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> sutula: which window manager/desktop are you using
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| 13:49 | <K_O-Gnom> can i redirect with a ltsp to a windows image? (if it workes did somebody have a howto for me?)
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| 13:50 | <sutula> vagrantc: gnome
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| 13:51 | vagrantc: I added a fresh, new user, and it doesn't appear to have trouble logging in
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| 13:51 | * sutula wonders what, in a user's gnome history, is causing this :( | |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> sutula: i had no problems with or without plugdev, fuse or any combination, using gnome or dwm on etch.
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| 13:53 | <sutula> vagrantc: I'll experiment...backup a user, then start deleting hidden files
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| 13:53 | vagrantc: Thanks for trying
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| 14:02 | <vagrantc> sutula: regarding the white background issue ... it almost seems definite that when it displays the logo is when the screen goes white
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| 14:03 | <sutula> vagrantc: Hmmm
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| 14:04 | <vagrantc> sutula: i wonder if we switched the order of when they get displayed somehow ... but then it would probably hide the logo
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| 14:04 | <sutula> vagrantc: The switch would be a good experiment, though
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| 14:04 | <vagrantc> sutula: it's all in C, so it's a little over my head
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| 14:05 | <sutula> vagrantc: Done by the ldm c code?
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| 14:05 | <vagrantc> sutula: i believe so
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| 14:05 | sutula: well, the gtkgreet code ...
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| 14:05 | <sutula> vagrantc: Once I get to the bottom of my login issue, I might have time to look at that
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| 14:06 | <vagrantc> sutula: that would be great. it's kind of ugly as it stands.
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| 14:08 | <sutula> vagrantc: OK...so my plugdev problem went away...I think when I rebooted the server
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| 14:09 | It shouldn't have been necessary after the update, but seems to be
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| 14:09 | <vagrantc> sutula: strange
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| 14:09 | * sutula agrees, but isn't willing to roll back to find that one :) | |
| 14:09 | <vagrantc> yeah, i guess i haven't actually done backport upgrades
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| 16:25 | <jaffo> i've just installed ubuntu 6.10 server and am following the intructions, when i run ltspcfg i get the following... Checking Runlevelgrep: /etc/inittab: No such file or directory
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| 16:25 | what have i missed
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| 16:26 | when trying to set the runlevel it bombs out of the ltspcfg utility
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| 16:32 | <jaffo> anyone here to help me
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| 16:32 | <Lumiere> jaffo: you should probably try the latest version of edubuntu
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| 16:32 | also... ltsp is more related to desktop not server
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| 16:32 | <jaffo> i did and the installer is broken on the cd, two differnet times i burned it and tried to install
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| 16:33 | <Lumiere> use md5sum
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| 16:33 | <jaffo> i need a server and 5 clients
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| 16:33 | <Lumiere> to check your cd
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| 16:33 | I do not see anyone on who usually gives support
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| 16:33 | <jaffo> ok
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| 17:07 | <sutula> vagrantc: So I'm getting back to trying to figure out why local devices aren't mounting on the latest Etch-backports. Following debugging stuff in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 17:08 | vagrantc: Did something change in Step 3? I don't see /var/run/ltspfs_fstab at all on the client
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| 17:13 | <vagrantc> sutula: what kind of devices do you have?
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| 17:13 | sutula: /var/run/ltspfs_fstab is still what's used
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| 17:13 | sutula: the only thing that changed client-side, that i know of, is the udev rules
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| 17:14 | that i can think of
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| 17:14 | <sutula> vagrantc: So I see Step 2...it's a thumbdrive
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| 17:14 | sda: assuming drive cache: write through
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| 17:14 | sda: sda1
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| 17:14 | sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi removable disk sda
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| 17:15 | Any pointers at where I should look?
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> sutula: cat /sys/block/sda/removable on the thin client
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| 17:15 | it should say 1
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| 17:15 | presuming it is actually removable.
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| 17:16 | sutula: otherwise, follow the instructions in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltspfsd/NEWS.Debian (or is it README ...)
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| 17:16 | and re-enable non-removable devices.
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| 17:17 | <sutula> It does say "1"
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> sutula: is there a floppy or cdrom drive on the system?
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| 17:18 | sutula: i haven't actually had a chance to test usb sticks
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| 17:18 | <sutula> vagrantc: Not a real one, but in the past, a floppy showed on the desktop
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| 17:18 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 17:18 | * sutula suspects there's floppy hardware support on the MB | |
| 17:18 | <sutula> vagrantc: I can be your "test" :)
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> sutula: well, having no idea what's wrong ... i think i'll have to test it myself
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| 17:20 | <sutula> vagrantc: OK...if there's something I can do to help, or if you can point me to the code that ought to be running, I'd be happy to work on it
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> sutula: i don't know where to start really ... it works for cdroms and floppy drives in virtualbox ... and i can't test usb sticks in virtualbox
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> sutula: on the thin client, the udev rules in /etc/udev/rules.d/*ltspfsd* upon device insertion/removable should run /lib/udev/*fstab_entry as appropriate
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| 17:22 | <sutula> vagrantc: OK, I'll put some debugging stuff in there
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> s,removable,removal,
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| 17:23 | floppy rules are handled speciall, and cdroms are handled separately ...
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| 17:23 | <sutula> k
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| 17:58 | <sutula> vagrantc: On my system, I had to remove "ATTRS{removable}==1, " to get the rule to fire. Is it possible that the ATTRS isn't working (correctly) on Etch?
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| 18:00 | vagrantc: Since I'm mucking about, I could try some more things if you want, but have to leave in 15 minutes.
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| 18:08 | <vagrantc> sutula: it is definitely possible that it's broken on etch, yes.
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| 18:11 | <sutula> vagrantc: Anything I can do to try to debug it, or will you take a shot (and submit any bugs) later?
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> sutula: i might work on it saturday or sunday. by all means, if you can figure anything out, please do so :)
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| 18:26 | <sutula> vagrantc: k
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> sutula: though bugs should really only be submitted if it's also a bug in the sid packages
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| 18:27 | <sutula> vagrantc: Right...hopefully, it's like the util-linux thing, and there might be a workaround
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| 18:34 | <muh2000_> hmm strange ltsp client starts to do some weird things, color is switching apart. wasnt like yesterday. resolution is not recognized yet ^^
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> sutula: i definitely tested the ATTRS{removable}==1 thing with a usb stick and sid ...
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| 18:38 | granted, it was a single usb stick
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| 18:41 | <ari_stress> morning all :D
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| 20:28 | <anything4cash> anyone here help me with connecting to a newly installed edubuntu server
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| 20:28 | from a windows machine how to i connect
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| 20:28 | ive received an ip address from the new edubuntu server
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| 20:29 | and im connecting to the net fine, andcan ssh to the edubuntu server fine
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| 20:36 | <anything4cash> do i misunderstand.can i not connect to the ltsp/edubuntu from a windows machine. do i have to boot from a network card or bootable cd into the terminal server
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| 20:38 | <cliebow> you "could " use cygwin to get a gui on the server
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| 20:38 | ir use nx to get a gui on the server..but th epoint is...ltsp is about "no" os on a client
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| 20:40 | <anything4cash> ok i get it, is there a way to boot a usbkey that will connect me to it or a bootable cd orsomwthing like that
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| 20:40 | <cliebow> you prob can use pxe to boot directly to the server..assuming your bios supports it..
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| 20:41 | or use a floppy..or an etherboot enabled network card..
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| 20:41 | or i think there is an etherboot cd..
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| 20:42 | but chance are an f12 on a modern bios will let you boot across the network'
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| 20:42 | <anything4cash> i'm using a wireless cardso i don't know howto do that. the builtin intel card supports pxe boot in the bios but im not near the edubuntu server
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| 20:42 | <cliebow> wireless is tough..double tough
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| 20:42 | <anything4cash> do you know how to boot pxe from grub or vista's bootloader or know where to point me
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| 20:42 | <cliebow> catch 22..
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| 20:43 | errr.pxe should just work
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| 20:43 | <anything4cash> hmmm wireless problem again. i'll have to keep googleing to see if i can pxeboot from my wireless card
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| 20:43 | <cliebow> no slimesucking vista bootloader
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| 20:44 | <anything4cash> or bcd or something like that... waht about vmware does it do that in their bios
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| 20:44 | if you know
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| 20:44 | <cliebow> sorry i don't
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| 20:45 | <anything4cash> ok tahnks for your help i'll keep looking
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| 20:45 | <cliebow> sure..you can ask the smart guys here...
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| 23:20 | <aboo0ood> hi everybody, i wanna ask about the communication between the X server and the LTSP server, is it TCP/UDP/else ?
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| 23:21 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: it depends a lot on weather you're using ssh X11 forwarding or XDMCP or which point at which you're talking about
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| 23:22 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, aha, ssh is TCP, XDMCP is UDP ?
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| 23:22 | <vagrantc> XDMCP is UDP ... ssh uses TCP ... X11 ... i'm not sure which regular old X11 uses.
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| 23:23 | i *think* it's UDP
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| 23:23 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, wut do u mean by X11 alone ?
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| 23:23 | <vagrantc> maybe either
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| 23:23 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, shouldn't it be using either SSH forwarding or XDMCP ?
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| 23:24 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: well, LDM by default uses ssh's X11 forwarding. but it can be configured to use ssh just for login and plain X11 from there on out.
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| 23:24 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, what is plain X11 ?
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| 23:24 | <vagrantc> X windows
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| 23:24 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, u mean the normal communical between X server and X client ?
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| 23:24 | <vagrantc> correct
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| 23:24 | <aboo0ood> communication *
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| 23:25 | <vagrantc> ports 6000-6007 (at least) seem to suggest x11 traffic- udp or tcp.
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| 23:25 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, so in the case of the default LTSP5 , forwarding is done over SSH = TCP
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| 23:26 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: it *might* be that simple.
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| 23:26 | aboo0ood: can't say for sure.
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| 23:26 | aboo0ood: why do you ask?
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| 23:26 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, i am doing a presentation about LTSP and i want to be sure about this point
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| 23:27 | <vagrantc> it gets tricky be ssh X11 forwarding set's up a proxy server... and i don't necessarily know what's going between the proxy server and the X server and the X clients
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| 23:30 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, hmmm, ok .. wut about XDMCP ?
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| 23:30 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: XDMCP is udp
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| 23:30 | aboo0ood: when but that's just the login... from there on out it's X11
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| 23:31 | <aboo0ood> aha
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| 23:31 | vagrantc, that's why it's insecure
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| 23:32 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: it's insecure because it's a known protocol and therefore only slightly obfuscated plain text.
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| 23:32 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, another question , when i say i got a session on the LTSP server, it means that my X server got privaliges to use applications on the LTSP server ??
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| 23:33 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: well, more like your applications got privledge to run on the X server.
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| 23:34 | aboo0ood: but what does it matter?
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| 23:34 | er, correction
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| 23:34 | aboo0ood: well, more like your applications got privledge to display on the X server.
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| 23:35 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, cz i read that a session is opened on the X server, so i was confused
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| 23:35 | but this way it means that the session is opened on the thin-client's X server, right ?
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| 23:38 | <vagrantc> aboo0ood: define session different ways and you'll get different answers
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| 23:39 | * vagrantc can't really see the point of getting into that much detail | |
| 23:39 | <aboo0ood> vagrantc, thanx :)
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| 23:46 | <sutula> vagrantc: Time for more info on the etch backport udev problem?
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| 23:47 | * sutula whacks hisself for asking to ask :) | |
| 23:47 | <sutula> vagrantc: Though the Etch man page for udev says that "ATTRS" searches upwards for a match, it doesn't seem to be doing so.
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| 23:48 | vagrantc: The rule matches for sda since there's a "removable" entry in /sys/block/sda
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| 23:49 | vagrantc: But there's no "removable" file in /sys/block/sda/sda1, so the rule is not firing.
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| 23:49 | vagrantc: By adding another rule, I can get it to fire:
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| 23:49 | ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{removable}=="1", RUN+="add_fstab_entry%k"
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| 23:49 | ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="block", ATTRS{../removable}=="1", RUN+="add_fstab_entry %k"
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| 23:50 | <vagrantc> sutula: well, i can easily make that a new backports upload, then :)
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| 23:50 | <sutula> Of course, this is a horrid hack.
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| 23:50 | ...but maybe good enough for backports
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| 23:50 | <vagrantc> yeah, but what are backports if not hacks? :)
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| 23:51 | i can't fathom it really breaking anything.
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| 23:51 | <sutula> I looked in udev changelog but didn't find anything mentioning that sort of thing, but am no udev expert
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| 23:51 | <vagrantc> i'm pretty sure i tested it with sid and a usb stick ...
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| 23:51 | <sutula> vagrantc: OK, I'll update the wiki, and you update backports whenever you feel like it
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| 23:52 | <vagrantc> i wouldn't be surprised if that didn't work
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| 23:52 | on etch, that is
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| 23:53 | <sutula> vagrantc: So, last question for tonight...Sometimes it still isn't showing on the desktop (gnome). I can see it mounted on the server with "mount". Where do I look next?
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| 23:53 | Maybe my daemons are all horked with all the messing around I did getting to this point, and I just need a reboot :)
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| 23:53 | <vagrantc> hm.
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| 23:53 | might be worth it, yes.
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| 23:53 | <sutula> vagrantc: K, I'll reboot when the rest of the kids go to bed :)
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| 23:54 | vagrantc: Thanks for all your help
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| 23:54 | <vagrantc> sutula: of course :)
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| 23:56 | looks like i actually have to make a new branch for the backport
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| 23:56 | the current ldm and ltspfs backports are just etch re-builds
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| 23:59 | <sutula> vagrantc: Darn
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