IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 27 April 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:07 | <johnny_> any ubuntu experts about?
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| 00:19 | #ubuntu is too full of n00bs ;(
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| 00:19 | and this is on my ltsp system :)
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| 02:57 | <Solv> I'm administering an ltsp server remotely, it has ubuntu 7.10 on it currently. Would it be unwise to perform an upgrade to 8.04 via apt?
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| 03:01 | well by apt I mean update-manager
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| 06:08 | <muh2000> hi
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| 06:09 | X_MODE_0 = 1024x768 is not working :(
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| 06:45 | <ogra> works fine here
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| 06:46 | what ltsp release/distro is that
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| 06:46 | muh2000, ^^
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| 06:47 | <muh2000> ogra: debian, server lenny, chroot sid/unstable. ltsp5
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| 06:47 | <laga> ogra: did you see xachen's problem last night? he can shut down the server from the clients
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| 06:47 | in xfce, that isd
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| 06:47 | <ogra> laga,old bug
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| 06:47 | xfce and the xubuntu guys are aware of it since 2 years ....
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| 06:47 | nobody did anything about it until today
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| 06:48 | <muh2000> lol ^^
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| 06:48 | <laga> ogra: why does it happen?
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| 06:48 | or is there a bug number? i'll go search for it then
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| 06:51 | <ogra> laga, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/65010
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| 06:51 | has some workarunds too
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| 06:51 | <rjune> dont' use xfce?
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| 06:52 | <ogra> *sigh* they should just check for LTSP_CLIENT and fixe their menu accordingly with a login script or something
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| 06:53 | <rjune> isn't the normal procedure for the environment to look at DISPLAY and not show shutdown/reboot if it's not local?
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| 06:53 | <laga> fix their menu accordingly?
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| 06:53 | sounds scary. what happens if someone executes dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Shutdown ?
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| 06:53 | <ogra> laga, suppress all power options as well as suspend/resume
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| 06:53 | laga, the user is allowed to shut down the server again
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| 06:54 | (which polkit prevented before)
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| 06:54 | <Q-FUNK> ouch
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| 06:54 | <laga> ogra: okay, so the problem isn't fixed, it's just that the menu entries are removed?
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| 06:54 | <rjune> hence the use of "work around" instead of "fix"
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| 06:55 | <ogra> you likely need a patch to the menu code that simply ignores all unwanted actions during menu display based on a getenv(LTSP_CLIENT)
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| 06:55 | <laga> Q-FUNK: did you read this http://apachelog.blogspot.com/2008/04/amarok-resolved.html
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| 06:55 | <ogra> thats what we do everywhere else
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| 06:55 | <laga> ogra: but the clients can still shut down the server.
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| 06:55 | <ogra> if they can sudo from a commandline, yes
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| 06:56 | <laga> ah, they need sudo? so talking to HAL isn't enough?
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| 06:56 | <ogra> if there is no shutdown option in the menu they wont be able to shut down anything without sudo
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| 06:56 | <laga> ogra: and what if they use the command i've posted above?
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| 06:56 | <ogra> sio just suppress everything you dont want during menu eneration
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| 06:56 | then they circumvent polkit
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| 06:57 | <laga> "circumvent"?!
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| 06:57 | <ogra> and consolekit
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| 06:57 | <Q-FUNK> laga: LOL
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| 06:57 | <ogra> forget about that crap
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| 06:57 | all you want is to fix up the menu
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| 06:57 | <laga> you've got to be kidding me. consolekit and polkit is of zero use in this use case when i can just talk to dbus directly!
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| 06:58 | <ogra> vi /etc/dbus-1/system.d/hal.conf
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| 06:58 | can you write to that file ?
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| 06:58 | <laga> ogra: no. i assumed that you were talking about removing menu entries, but not about removing the ability to shut down the server using hal
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| 06:59 | <ogra> there is no such ability by default
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| 06:59 | forget about hal here
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| 06:59 | omit the menu entries
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| 06:59 | all you want in the shutdown menu on xfce is te logout option ... nothing more
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| 06:59 | <laga> i'll have to play with policykit i guess :)
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| 07:00 | <ogra> no
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| 07:00 | fix the menu
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| 07:00 | * Q-FUNK still doesn't get why LTSP in Ubuntu/Hardy works with any "amd" variant but fails with a "geode" (with or without the symbolic link to amd_drv.so). | |
| 07:00 | <ogra> (its very likely not more than 5 lines of C)
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| 07:00 | <laga> ogra: i'm not concerned about xfce, i was just concerned there was a scurity/DoS hole. i've got got play with policykit to find out what else it can do ;)
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| 07:01 | <ogra> ah, right
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| 07:01 | <laga> hence my excitement :)
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| 07:01 | <ogra> it has a nice gui tool to set all the permissions
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| 07:01 | (instaled by default)
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| 07:18 | <Q-FUNK> ogra: did you ever reflash your 61 with the latest PXE bios we produced, btw?
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| 07:39 | * muh2000 is happy that the new xorg geode driver etc now starts X in a few seconds instead of hours :) | |
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| 07:55 | <daya> ogra, Do I need to specify default locale in some where for ldm,
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| 08:02 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: oh?
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| 08:05 | <muh2000> yes ^^
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| 08:10 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: working in Hardy? in LTSP?
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| 08:10 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: debian sid/unstable
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| 08:10 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: with or without xorg.conf ?
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| 08:10 | <muh2000> working, exept for X_MODE_0 1024x768 or other resolutions
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| 08:11 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: ah, so debian/sid LTSP
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| 08:11 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: it worked without a special xorg.conf. but took 4-5 hours to load X. the new driver fixed that :)
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| 08:11 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: even with the new driver? the new driver should completely bypass the BIOS to poll DDC
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| 08:12 | it should use the biggest available resoluton for your display
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| 08:13 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: hmmm ok the monitor is a littlebit old. lets say like 1992 old :)
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| 08:13 | <Q-FUNK> right, so 1024x768 might be the best it can do
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| 08:13 | <muh2000> nah
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| 08:13 | 1600*1200 is the best @ 60 hz
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| 08:13 | 1280x1024 @ 75hz
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| 08:13 | <Q-FUNK> and it doesn't give you that?
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| 08:14 | on which geode hardware, again?
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| 08:14 | <muh2000> nope.
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| 08:14 | alix3c3
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| 08:14 | http://pcengines.ch/alix3c3.htm
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| 08:14 | <Q-FUNK> sh yes
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| 08:16 | can you run it as a standalone host with a basic Sid install on the CF, see what it does, and file a bug on Debian using reportbug?
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| 08:16 | reportbug will automaticaly collect the X log and other data I need to debug why it doesn't give you larger rez.
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| 08:22 | ogra: btw, libDDC has been merged as a +git20080424-1 package for -geode.
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| 08:24 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: hmmm 512 mbyte enough for that? well the monitor is not the newest and always had problems with X and the option DPMS where the hz etc would be recognized...
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| 08:25 | <Q-FUNK> ok, so a tricky monitor to beging with, then
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| 08:25 | hmm.. maybe not worth reporting about, then
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| 08:26 | <muh2000> Q-FUNK: not worth it in my opinion.
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| 08:26 | i want to replace that thing when i have money with a tft.
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| 08:50 | <petre> Morning all
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| 09:02 | <Q-FUNK> muh2000: sounds like a plan. here, I found myself a pretty good 17" viewsonic TFT for cheap at the local finnish e-bay.
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| 09:03 | <muh2000> :)
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| 09:20 | eharrison has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:20 | <cliebow> howdy Eric!
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| 09:20 | <petre> Morning eharrison
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| 09:20 | <eharrison> good morning
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| 09:21 | <petre> had your coffee yet?
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| 09:21 | <eharrison> just finishing the first cup!
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| 09:21 | * eharrison is off to fetch the second... | |
| 09:22 | <petre> then we can anticipate erudite answers from you ;-)
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| 09:25 | <eharrison> I did a "proof of concept" build of a "K12LTSP like" install DVD for F9 last night. It *almost* works out of the box ;-)
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| 09:26 | * warren awake | |
| 09:26 | <warren> although I need a qiuck, shower
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| 09:26 | brb
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| 09:30 | <Nubae> hmmm... there was a change in groups from gutsy to hardy... powerdev is now not used anymore?
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| 09:38 | * warren back | |
| 09:38 | <warren> anybody running fedora 8? I haven't done builds for fedora 8 in a month or so.
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| 09:38 | I can do more builds but i need testing
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| 09:39 | <eharrison> I have f8 on my ltsp server at work, but it has a f9 chroot copied over from my f9 laptop
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| 09:40 | /usr/sbin/ltsp-* from f9 all seem to work ok on f8
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| 09:41 | <warren> eharrison: note that ltsp-server on F-8 should be able to install a f-9 chroot
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| 09:41 | <warren> eharrison: ltsp-build-client --release=9
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| 09:41 | <ogra> Nubae, yes, for local mounting policykit resolves the access control for gvfs now, no need for a dedicated group anymore
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| 09:42 | <petre> I've got f8 on my laptop
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| 09:42 | finally got f9 in a vm, updating now
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| 09:42 | <warren> I uploaded part of it to the repo. still have to rebuild ldm and ltspfs
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| 09:42 | If you already installed /opt/ltsp/i386 I need retesting with the newer ltsp-server
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| 09:43 | <warren> so go ahead and erase /opt/ltsp/i386 and use ltsp-build-client again
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| 09:43 | <ogra> warren, uh, why --release ? why dont you use the existing --dist ?
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| 09:43 | <warren> ogra: what type of arg does that take?
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| 09:43 | <ogra> (saves doc updates at least)
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| 09:44 | <ogra> well, hardy, sid, lenny, etch .... fo you i could imagine fc8 or fc9 for that
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| 09:44 | <warren> yeah, I needed a number there.
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| 09:45 | <ogra> not that you have to, but there is a lot docs out there that would be easier to match using that
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| 09:45 | <rjune> mistik1: howdy
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| 09:45 | <warren> I added both --distro and --release because both need to be adjustable independently
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| 09:45 | <ogra> can you rename --distro ?
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| 09:46 | thats used already
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| 09:46 | at least as --dist
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| 09:46 | <warren> no
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| 09:46 | our need is a bit different
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| 09:46 | <ogra> well, but the docs talk about --dist
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| 09:47 | its totally confusing to use similary named options for different stuff
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| 09:47 | <warren> I had to do this to get around the lsb_release thing during ltsp-build-client because I can't rely on it.
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| 09:47 | What is a better option for name of your distro?
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| 09:48 | <ogra> well, give it another name then, but please dont re use existing option names that migth be documented somewhere differently
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| 09:48 | <rjune> --distro-name ?
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| 09:49 | <ogra> in any case there are many debian and ubuntu howtos out there that use this option as well
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| 09:49 | --lsb-distro
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| 09:49 | <Nubae> --distrib
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| 09:49 | <ogra> nah
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| 09:49 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 09:49 | <ogra> to similar
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| 09:49 | sounds like a long option to --dist
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| 09:49 | <petre> warren, do I need to update anything before running ltsp-build-client on f8
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| 09:49 | ?
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| 09:50 | <Nubae> yeah
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| 09:50 | <warren> petre: hold on, i'm updating ldm and ltspfs too
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| 09:52 | --lsb-distro does not describe what this option does
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| 09:52 | <ogra> well, --dist is taken, please dont change its purpose, i'm fine with any other name
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| 09:53 | <ogra> we should go through all options at least once to make sure we have the common ones similar in all distros
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| 09:53 | thats sadly a disadvantage of the plugin system ...
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| 09:53 | <petre> warren, standing by...
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| 09:53 | <warren> OK, I'll change it at some point in the future
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| 09:53 | this particular option isn't used by my users yet
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| 09:53 | <ogra> right
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| 09:54 | <warren> since I support only Fedora at the moment
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| 09:54 | <Nubae> and make sure ltsp-update-image and ltsp-build-client have the same options or at least similar
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| 09:54 | <warren> We don't ship ltsp-update-image at all yet
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| 09:54 | <ogra> as long as it doesnt show up in docs or howtos or MLs yet so people could find contadicting info with google all is fine
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| 09:54 | <Nubae> right now --arch means one thing in ltsp-build-client and another in ltsp-update-image
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| 09:54 | <warren> it contains debianisms
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| 09:54 | <Nubae> heh
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| 09:54 | <ogra> warren, update-image ?
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| 09:54 | yeah, that might be
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| 09:55 | patches happily accepted :)
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| 09:55 | <warren> we also don't do nbd yet
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| 09:55 | <Nubae> no nbd... that's a loss
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| 09:55 | <ogra> Nubae, depends on your POV
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| 09:55 | :)
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| 09:55 | <Nubae> well, if speed is your need
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| 09:55 | <ogra> nbd is a PITA if you do development on a slow machine for example
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| 09:56 | rebuilding the image all the time can be annoying
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| 09:56 | <Nubae> ok, rebuilding the image, yeah maybe
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| 09:56 | <ogra> for general use its fine though
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| 09:56 | <Nubae> its a pain when working with low fat clients
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| 09:56 | <ogra> you are not forced to :) nfs is still there
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| 09:56 | <warren> I'm adding nbd soon
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| 09:57 | I have working code for nbd but our OS guys rejected it
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| 09:57 | <ogra> oh ?
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| 09:57 | why is that ?
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| 09:57 | <warren> because they want me to write proper support for nbd as a standard mount option
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| 09:57 | indradg_ has quit IRC | |
| 09:57 | <warren> also they want a IETF RFC for nbd options
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| 09:57 | <ogra> ah, not the nbd-server/-client side then but initramfs support
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| 09:57 | <warren> no
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| 09:57 | <ogra> i thought things like nbdrootd
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| 09:57 | or *swapd
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| 09:58 | <warren> mount -t squashfs -o ro,nbd 192.168.0.254:2000 /mnt/somewhere
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| 09:58 | <ogra> (both should rather be options to nbd-server though)
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| 09:58 | <warren> nbd mount syntax should be just like loop
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| 09:58 | <ogra> that doest work, since you need the nbd-client running for it first
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| 09:59 | so something needs to be added to mount
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| 09:59 | <warren> mount can wrap that
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| 09:59 | Yes, that's the idea.
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| 10:00 | <ogra> hard to do in a way that doesnt clash with nbd-client's config etc ... that will need good planning
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| 10:00 | <warren> yeah, that's why this will take me a lot more work
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| 10:00 | <petre> warren, running yum install ltsp-server, I get a package not signed error
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| 10:01 | <warren> i'm uploading F-8 ldm now. still need to rebuild ltspfs
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| 10:02 | <petre> this is on f9, btw
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| 10:03 | * petre will try to be explicit about which system he is on in his comments | |
| 10:03 | <warren> petre: what repos do you have in /etc/yum.repos.d/?
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| 10:04 | <petre> warren, fedora, rawhide, updates, updates-testing
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| 10:06 | <warren> rpm -q fedora-release ?
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| 10:06 | <petre> rawhide and updates-testing are disabled though
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| 10:08 | fedora-release-9.0.1.rc.noarch
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| 10:08 | <warren> uploading new builds for F-8
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| 10:08 | petre: try "yum clean all" and "yum update" again
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| 10:11 | * warren erases /opt/ltsp/i386 and tests ltsp-build-client --release=8 | |
| 10:11 | <warren> So I'm thinking we need to do a redesign of part of this.
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| 10:11 | stuff that is configured during ltsp-build-client after the chroot is installed...
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| 10:11 | should instead be done by a RPM within the chroot
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| 10:11 | why?
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| 10:12 | so yum update's can fix things fixed by newer RPMS
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| 10:12 | This is going to be a mess...
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| 10:12 | unless we tell everyone "sorry, you have to erase your chroot and install from scratch"
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| 10:13 | OK, F-8 has everything uploaded now, you could give it a test.
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| 10:13 | i'm trying Fedora 8 chroot install on Fedora 9 now.
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| 10:13 | but I can't test fedora 8 host so easily.
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| 10:13 | <petre> trying ltsp-build-client on f8 now...
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| 10:13 | <warren> petre: what version of ltsp-server?
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| 10:14 | rpm -q ltsp-server
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| 10:14 | <petre> ltsp-server-5.1.2-1.20080330.11.fc8
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| 10:14 | <warren> petre: can you yum update that first? there's a 5.1.5 in the repo now.
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| 10:15 | <petre> will do (was wondering about that)
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| 10:15 | <warren> So other news to report...
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| 10:16 | - I spent maybe 2 days fighting the AMD Geode driver in F-9 because it is pretty prevalent in thin clients. Q-FUNK of Artec Group sent me two thincan clients.
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| 10:16 | http://www.x.org/wiki/AMDGeodeDriver xorg-x11-drv-geode in F-9 is in pretty good shape, finally does proper DDC detection on all tests to use native resolution on my monitors.
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| 10:17 | Only there is a new bug between X.org 1.5 and geode causing black boxes to render. Some issue with EXA composite rendering.
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| 10:17 | Currently nobody other than Fedora 9 is using X.org 1.5 so it might be a while before other people begin seeing it.
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| 10:18 | - I also spent about 2 days working on non-PXE booting for LTSP5 in Fedora. One of Artec Group's thincans had coreboot/Etherboot which does not support PXE.
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| 10:18 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:19 | <warren> Interestingly none of the existing tools mknbi/mkelf/mkelfimage/wraplinux work successfully with Fedora 9's kernel. It might be something new in the 2.6.25 based kernel we use in F-9 that is incompatible.
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| 10:19 | All details of this were posted to ltsp-developer list with links to other reports.
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| 10:20 | - https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/HardwareNotes I began adding my hardware testing details here. Go ahead and add your own or give me details and I'll add it.
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| 10:21 | <petre> so, is etherboot supported atm or not?
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| 10:21 | K_O-Gnom has quit IRC | |
| 10:21 | <warren> not yet
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| 10:21 | it seems completely busted by F9's kernel
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| 10:22 | I'm testing F-8 kernel now
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| 10:22 | <petre> in theory, shouldn't one be able to build an older, etherboot-compatible chroot?
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| 10:22 | <warren> eharrison: dan_young: petre: any opinion on this...
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| 10:23 | eharrison: dan_young: petre: i'm thinking to rename /etc/ltsp/ltsp-dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 10:23 | or maybe bad idea...
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| 10:23 | petre: the chroot is exactly the same
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| 10:23 | <dan_young> had been problematic on dhcpd upgrade previously
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| 10:23 | <warren> petre: only thing that is different is kernel and initrd must be wrapped into a single image
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| 10:23 | dan_young: oh?
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| 10:23 | <dan_young> warren: nevermind, I misread that
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| 10:24 | <warren> err, nevermind, i will not rename it, only cosmetic
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| 10:24 | I'm just bothered by the several things in /etc/ltsp/ltsp-* that all look the same
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| 10:24 | * dan_young shrugs | |
| 10:24 | <warren> "ltsp/ltsp*" is redundant
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| 10:25 | <petre> what does, say, ubuntu do?
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| 10:25 | <dan_young> probably good to do at some point, so all ltsp-server configs are in one place
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| 10:25 | <petre> consistency from one distro to another would be good
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| 10:25 | <warren> can someone find out?
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| 10:25 | <dan_young> brought to you by dept of redundancy dept
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| 10:25 | <warren> I have not been able to successfully install Ubuntu on any machine
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| 10:25 | the ISO doesn't work
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| 10:25 | <eharrison> I"ll take a look at my edubuntu box...
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| 10:25 | <ogra> warren, ?
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| 10:26 | <warren> ogra: I must have bad luck or something
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| 10:26 | <ogra> !ubuntu
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| 10:26 | <ltspbot> ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 10:26 | <ogra> CD instructions are at the latter link
| |
| 10:26 | <warren> ogra: I downloaded your previous version of edubuntu and now ubuntu 8.04 desktop, the ISO's in both case don't work in kvm and when I burned them theydon't boot.
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| 10:26 | DonSilver has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:26 | <eharrison> warren: edubuntu is /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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| 10:26 | <ogra> that sounds rather like a corrupted iso
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| 10:27 | <laga> ogra: i've just tested the shutdown command i posted above (which uses dbus) and i couldn't shut down the server from my client. i'm relieved now :)
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| 10:27 | <ogra> eharrison, note tht our dhcpd uses that file live if it exists ...
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| 10:28 | <warren> eharrison: could you compare other file names/locations to see if we can make any other quick changes?
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| 10:28 | I can do ONE more build before Fedora 9
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| 10:28 | <ogra> laga, well, xubuntu should add a Xsession.d script that runs this dbus setup then as soon as it detects LTSP_CLIENT to be set
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| 10:28 | <warren> I plan on pulling in these quick changes + more translations.
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| 10:29 | <ogra> warren, err
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| 10:29 | warren, did you say 8.04 desktop ?
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| 10:29 | ltsp is only on the alternate disk (link on the install wiki)
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| 10:30 | <warren> ogra: yes desktop
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| 10:30 | <ogra> thats the livecd
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| 10:30 | <warren> ogra: I was trying to get any ubuntu to install here
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| 10:30 | it wouldn't even boot
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| 10:30 | <ogra> well, the whole team tests in kvm or vitrualbox ...
| |
| 10:30 | *virualbox
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| 10:30 | gah
| |
| 10:31 | <warren> I didn't check checksums
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| 10:31 | where do I find that?
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| 10:31 | <ogra> yeah, really sounds like a corrupt image
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| 10:31 | <warren> two corrupt images in a row?
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| 10:31 | <petre> warren, did you use bittorrent? I think that comes with the checksums
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| 10:32 | <warren> eharrison: petre: dan_young: so the move to the new dhcpd.conf filename will break some users but we need to do it before F-9 final
| |
| 10:32 | * petre got the desktop iso, was able to boot it in vmware | |
| 10:32 | <eharrison> warren: better now than later ;-)
| |
| 10:32 | <dan_young> warren: do it now, while you can!
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| 10:32 | <xachen> Does anybody know if just plain ubuntu when you click shutdown that it'll shutdown the workstation, not the whole server?
| |
| 10:32 | * petre says change the name, damn the torpedos | |
| 10:32 | <xachen> Xubntu does that and its something I'd prefer to avoid
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| 10:33 | <ogra> warren, http://mirrors.gigenet.com/ubuntu/hardy/MD5SUMS
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| 10:33 | 8895167a794c5d8dedcc312fc62f1f1f *ubuntu-8.04-desktop-i386.iso
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| 10:34 | xachen, the gnome desktop doesnt offer the shutdown option, its a longstanding bug in xfce that it offers it at all
| |
| 10:34 | <xachen> yeah I've quite using xfce for many reasons
| |
| 10:35 | Also do you kow how easy gnome-watchdog is to setup on Ubuntu?
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| 10:35 | <ogra> no idea, i dotn use it
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| 10:35 | <xachen> hmm k. I have the simulated issue where if I kil power to a thin client and relogin, firefox won't load because its a zombie process elsewhere
| |
| 10:36 | <warren> ogra: yeah, my md5sum matches
| |
| 10:36 | sometihng else is going on
| |
| 10:36 | <ogra> xachen, laga just tested a workaround for xfce from shuttingdown at all (see the last comment) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/65010
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| 10:37 | warren, thats very strange then, can you mount the iso properly ?
| |
| 10:37 | s/for/ot prevent/
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| 10:37 | *to
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| 10:38 | <warren> hmm
| |
| 10:38 | ltsp-vmclient with my F-8 chroot seems weird
| |
| 10:38 | login to ldm, white screen
| |
| 10:38 | my mouse pointer moves around
| |
| 10:38 | ogra: yes, I can loopback it
| |
| 10:39 | OH
| |
| 10:39 | <petre> it's been a few weeks, but ltsp-vmclient was always a bit unstable for me on f8
| |
| 10:39 | <warren> it is trying to run compiz
| |
| 10:39 | petre: yeah, it relies on however flaky kvm is at the moment
| |
| 10:39 | kvm keeps changing upstream rapidly for performance at the expense of drivers
| |
| 10:40 | <petre> ltsp-vmclient uses kvm?
| |
| 10:40 | I thought it was qemu
| |
| 10:40 | <warren> kvm uses qemu-kvm
| |
| 10:40 | which is a fork of qemu
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| 10:40 | <petre> ah
| |
| 10:41 | <warren> if you don't have hardware virt support it fallsback to plain qemu
| |
| 10:41 | which is slow
| |
| 10:41 | <petre> how can one check for kvm support in hardware?
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| 10:41 | <ogra> with kqemu its relatively usable
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| 10:41 | <warren> yeah, my problem was compiz
| |
| 10:42 | <ogra> petre, egrep '(vmx|svm)' /proc/cpuinfo
| |
| 10:42 | <warren> eharrison: dan_young: petre: any ideas of last minute fixes I should add to this last build before F-9?
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| 10:43 | eharrison: dan_young: petre: I'm thinking to set the LANG= so ldm translated works, change /etc/ltsp/ltsp-dhcpd.conf to /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
| |
| 10:43 | * petre does not have kvm support, as suspected | |
| 10:43 | <ogra> you need a relatively new CPU
| |
| 10:44 | <warren> petre: if you have vmware that should be even better
| |
| 10:44 | petre: see if vmware has command line options to boot it in PXE mode with a certain amount of RAM
| |
| 10:44 | * ogra prefers virtualbox ... but thats because of good ubuntu integration | |
| 10:44 | <warren> petre: or make a vmware config file that does it
| |
| 10:44 | <petre> warren, ah, good point!
| |
| 10:44 | <Nubae> yeah, unfortunately, if you created your images with vmware, it doesn't work so great
| |
| 10:45 | <warren> petre: only trick is that it has to attach itself to the ltspbr0 bridge which might not be trivial
| |
| 10:45 | <ogra> setting up internal networks and thin clients is the easiest in vbox i found
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| 10:45 | <petre> ogra, brand new toshiba laptop, dual-core centrino
| |
| 10:45 | but it may have been sitting on the store's shelf a while, it's not top of the line
| |
| 10:46 | <ogra> cat /proc/cpuinfo |grep "model name"|head -1
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| 10:46 | <petre> I keep trying virtualbox, but have a hard time with the bridging
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| 10:46 | <ogra> dont use bridgin then :)
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| 10:46 | toscalix has quit IRC | |
| 10:46 | <ogra> just create an internal network in the vbox gui
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| 10:46 | <Nubae> I couldn't get virtualbox to nat either... seemed easier in vmware
| |
| 10:46 | <ogra> then crete a etbooting virtual machine without disk
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| 10:47 | * petre agrees with Nubae | |
| 10:47 | <ogra> tats it
| |
| 10:47 | <warren> does virtualbox need kernel modules?
| |
| 10:47 | on the host
| |
| 10:47 | <Nubae> yeah
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| 10:47 | <ogra> takes me less than 5 min
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| 10:47 | with installed ltsp server vm indeed
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| 10:48 | <petre> ogra, laptop is Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T5450 @ 1.66GHz
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| 10:48 | <warren> # Find tftp server
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| 10:48 | # XXX: option routers is not guaranteed to be the tftp server. Need to figure
| |
| 10:48 | # out a better way to detect the tftp server address.
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| 10:48 | ROOTSERVER="$(cat /dev/.dhclient-eth0.leases |grep "routers" |awk {'print $3'} |sed 's/;//')"
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| 10:48 | <ogra> ah, well, the 5xxx series doesnt have vm i think
| |
| 10:48 | <warren> ogra: any better idea?
| |
| 10:49 | <dan_young> petre: might check BIOS options, but I've heard of models that have the right CPU, but VT support is disabled in the BIOS
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| 10:49 | <ogra> warren, where is that ?
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| 10:49 | initramfs ?
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| 10:49 | <warren> ogra: ltsp-client-launch
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| 10:49 | <ogra> initscript ?
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| 10:49 | <warren> ogra: that's our initscript
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| 10:49 | <ogra> why do you need ROOTSERVER there =
| |
| 10:49 | ?
| |
| 10:49 | your / is mounted already
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| 10:49 | <warren> our client grabs lts.conf over tftp very late
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| 10:50 | <ogra> oh
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| 10:50 | <warren> like right before it runs screen_session
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| 10:50 | <ogra> hmm
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| 10:50 | <petre> dan_young, tx
| |
| 10:50 | I'll look at next boot
| |
| 10:50 | <ogra> did you check if ROOTSERVER isnt still set ? the kernel usually exports that
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| 10:50 | <warren> petre: some models like eharrison's laptop support vt in the CPU but there is no way to enable in the BIOS
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| 10:50 | <ogra> we have it at least available in the initramfs in that form
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| 10:50 | (as env var)
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| 10:50 | <warren> the kernel?
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| 10:50 | <dan_young> petre: his is a Toshiba, IIRC
| |
| 10:51 | * eharrison does indeed have a Toshiba | |
| 10:51 | <petre> eharrison, what model do you have?
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| 10:51 | <warren> ogra: err, I'll have to look into this later
| |
| 10:51 | <eharrison> M115 something or the other (I have sticker over the rest)
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| 10:51 | <warren> ogra: this has been working reliably for us for months
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| 10:52 | later cleanup
| |
| 10:52 | <ogra> warren, well, i have all dhcp values available in my environment in the initramfs and to my knowledge there is nothing run before the mount_root script in ubuntu that could export anything, so i sspect the kernel throws it out
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| 10:52 | <warren> I'll have to look into that
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| 10:52 | <ogra> oh, wait
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| 10:53 | <petre> warren, yum install ltsp-server on f9 still says package not signed
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| 10:53 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:53 | <ogra> # source relevant ipconfig output
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| 10:53 | . /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf
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| 10:53 | warren, seems for me it comes from ipconfig ...
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| 10:53 | <warren> weird
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| 10:53 | <ogra> so i guess your way is the best one can do
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| 10:54 | <warren> ltspfs made an "Audio CD" appear on my gnome desktop
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| 10:54 | there is no CD..
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| 10:54 | <ogra> fun
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| 10:54 | using gnome-vfs or gvfs ?
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| 10:54 | <laga> ogra: i dont think the stuff in /tmp/net-${DEVICE}.conf is available in my normal environment on my mythbuntu clients
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| 10:54 | <ogra> laga, no, thats from initramfs
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| 10:55 | <laga> ah
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| 10:55 | <ogra> /tmp is flushed if the root changes
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| 10:55 | only things actually used are copied over
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| 10:55 | <laga> i was referring to the variables found in that file
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| 10:55 | <ogra> yay, my diversions in the classmate installer all work :)
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| 10:56 | laga, ah
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| 10:58 | <warren> ahh
| |
| 10:58 | our LANG problem might have been because I blindly copy & pasted from debian's initscript
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| 11:04 | confirmed, the language fix was simple
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| 11:08 | DonSilver has quit IRC | |
| 11:08 | <warren> if [ -f /etc/sysconfig/language ]
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| 11:08 | then
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| 11:08 | LANG=`. /etc/sysconfig/language; echo $RC_LANG`
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| 11:08 | export LANG
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| 11:08 | this makes little sense
| |
| 11:09 | <eharrison> warren: I'm working on a updates.img that will auto-magically build a functional LTSP server. So far it looks like everything is going to work, except that /usr/sbin/ltsp-server-initialize is busted (which we already knew). I'll work on fixing that today.
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| 11:09 | <warren> eharrison: ogra: petre: so I guess we're done for today, anything else you had in mind?
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| 11:09 | eharrison: oh, you're still thinking traditional installer...
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| 11:09 | <petre> any further suggestions for my unsigned package problem for ltsp-server on f9?
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| 11:09 | <warren> eharrison: I was thinking live LTSP server instead
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| 11:09 | eharrison: I suppose you'll get there sooner than me
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| 11:10 | petre: oh yeha, let me take alook
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| 11:10 | <eharrison> warren: excellent & easy proof-of-concept, if nothing else (nothing beats running code ;-)
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| 11:11 | <warren> petre: damn, it was mistakenly pushed without a signature
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| 11:12 | petre: skip the gpg check for now
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| 11:12 | rjune has left #ltsp | |
| 11:12 | <petre> warren, is that a parameter I pass to yum?
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| 11:13 | <warren> yeah
| |
| 11:13 | I don't remember the exact syntax..
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| 11:14 | find it on google
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| 11:15 | <petre> k
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| 11:15 | <warren> everyone have wiki edit acces?
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| 11:16 | dan? eric? petre?
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| 11:16 | <petre> yep
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| 11:16 | Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:16 | * eharrison is not sure, has not tried to document anything yet :-( | |
| 11:17 | Pascal_1 has quit IRC | |
| 11:18 | <petre> yum --nogpgcheck
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| 11:19 | <warren> eharrison: uses the same login as your fedora account
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| 11:20 | eharrison: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/
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| 11:20 | give it a quick test?
| |
| 11:20 | hmm, can someone make a quick an dirty logo to replace that Trac logo?
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| 11:20 | * petre likes the one from the k12ltsp wiki | |
| 11:22 | <eharrison> now all need todo is remember my fedora account password
| |
| 11:22 | * eharrison has too many accounts ;-) | |
| 11:23 | <Nubae> wow... 3 hours to install a low fat client with the workstation plugin...
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| 11:23 | artista_frustrad has quit IRC | |
| 11:23 | <warren> I'll ask the list for logo ideas then
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| 11:23 | or rather
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| 11:23 | johnny_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:23 | <johnny_> howdy
| |
| 11:23 | #ubuntu sucks :(
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| 11:24 | but then again.... so do all the #$distro channels ..
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| 11:24 | artista_frustrad has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:24 | <Nubae> johnny why?
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| 11:25 | <johnny_> because it's impossible to get any help
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| 11:25 | too many other n00bs trying to get help.. rather than do the helping
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| 11:25 | i've never once got my questions answered there or #gentoo
| |
| 11:25 | <Nubae> depends on your question, if its simple enough, no problem, otherwise, it takes time
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| 11:25 | <johnny_> problems go by too fast before anyboyd reads them
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| 11:25 | that tends to be the real problem
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| 11:26 | there is no "stack"
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| 11:26 | <eharrison> warren: yes, I can edit the wiki
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| 11:26 | <johnny_> fedora ltsp ftw ....
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| 11:26 | go guys!
| |
| 11:26 | not that i use fedora or anything
| |
| 11:26 | but .. i'm glad progress is being made
| |
| 11:27 | <warren> Fedora exists for progress.
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| 11:27 | <Nubae> heh
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| 11:27 | <warren> Somebody has to write a lot of stuff so other distros can steal it all.
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| 11:27 | <johnny_> so does every other distro..
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| 11:27 | oh c'mon
| |
| 11:27 | plenty of stuff exists outside of all distros that you all steal
| |
| 11:27 | remind me not to compliment you again
| |
| 11:27 | <warren> But hey, we're stealing some stuff back now, like upstart.
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| 11:28 | <Nubae> I'm trying to convince OLPC to move from Fedora ;-)
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| 11:28 | <eharrison> and ltsp5 ;-)
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| 11:28 | <Nubae> at least on the server
| |
| 11:28 | <warren> OLPC server?
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| 11:28 | <johnny_> warren, don't ever say that if you want more fedora users..
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| 11:28 | <Nubae> yeah the XS server
| |
| 11:28 | <warren> what does that do?
| |
| 11:28 | <Nubae> it coordinates teh XOs
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| 11:29 | mostly they're reinventing something like ebox or webmin
| |
| 11:29 | <johnny_> webmin is the suck
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| 11:29 | <warren> sounds like something that should run on any distro
| |
| 11:29 | <Nubae> which is why I've suggested moving to Ubuntu or debian
| |
| 11:29 | except ebox is pretty debian specific
| |
| 11:30 | <warren> are you a Ubuntu developer?
| |
| 11:30 | <johnny_> no
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| 11:30 | <Nubae> and the XS server modules for things like backing up the XOs or coordinating jabber servers are Fedora specific
| |
| 11:30 | * warren has no idea how all that stuff works | |
| 11:30 | <johnny_> so.. after hardy upgrade i lost my firefox menu icon
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| 11:30 | in the Internet menu
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| 11:30 | it's in /usr/share/applications/
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| 11:32 | <Nubae> ok, lets see if my server now sees all 8 gigs of ramn
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| 11:32 | Nubae has left #ltsp | |
| 11:32 | <petre> ltsp-server installed on f9 with --nogpgcheck
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| 11:32 | warren, are we done for today?
| |
| 11:33 | <warren> yeah
| |
| 11:33 | I'm still here working on it though
| |
| 11:33 | * petre has to tend to some domestic responsibilities | |
| 11:34 | <warren> thanks for coming
| |
| 11:34 | <petre> oh, your new ltsp-build-client just finished successfully on my f8 box
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| 11:34 | <johnny_> also. the upgrade totally forgot that i removed fglrx ..
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| 11:34 | and i spent two hours trying to figure out why it wouldn't install the symlink to /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
| |
| 11:35 | <warren> petre: Yeah I suspect it works fine, I'm running a F-8 chroot on my F-9 host now.
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| 11:35 | haven't tested this in weeks
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| 11:36 | <petre> I'll may have some time tonight to take it out for a spin
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| 12:16 | <warren> johnny: I'm sorry, I was unproductively bitter earlier
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| 12:18 | makghosh|afk is now known as makghosh | |
| 12:19 | <johnny_> thanks for that
| |
| 12:24 | everybody was here earlier.. now they are gonez
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| 12:25 | <warren> well, sunday mornigs are the k12linux meetings
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| 12:26 | <cyberorg> warren, if you are so worried about other people using your work, you shouldn't be working on open source projects :)
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| 12:28 | <warren> It isn't that.
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| 12:28 | <cyberorg> btw, hi all, been away for a week, how are things
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| 12:29 | <warren> We feel frustration because others are not actively trying to give their own changes back to upstream projects as actively as we are.
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| 12:29 | I know jcastro is trying to work on this problem.
| |
| 12:30 | A key fallacy here is "making it available" is not the same as truly giving to upstream
| |
| 12:30 | We in Fedora did make a few mistakes like this
| |
| 12:30 | like our openssh patch since 2005 that didn't go upstream
| |
| 12:30 | <cyberorg> not every upstream project gets all the distros love they deserve, give it some time, last couple of years only debian and ubuntu were doing most of the work
| |
| 12:30 | <warren> that turned out be a security hole
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| 12:30 | <johnny_> i'd say the same issue with hal exists warren
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| 12:30 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 12:31 | <johnny_> lots of people were upset about that
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| 12:31 | i hope that gets resolved
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| 12:31 | <warren> I don't know the hal story
| |
| 12:31 | <johnny_> i watched the hal lists .. davidz would just put code drops up
| |
| 12:31 | it was annoying
| |
| 12:31 | lots of people were upset
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| 12:31 | <warren> there's no central source repo?
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| 12:31 | <johnny_> he never thought he did anything wrong
| |
| 12:31 | <Nubae> warren: u have a commercial use for ltsp at the moment?
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| 12:31 | <warren> Nubae: nope
| |
| 12:32 | <johnny_> warren, sure.. but it wasn't used until lots of code had been built up
| |
| 12:32 | <warren> johnny: it is possible that he's doing something hostile, I can look into it if I have a more detailed description of what's going on
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| 12:32 | <cyberorg> hey we have LTSP GUI project selected for GSOC :)
| |
| 12:32 | <johnny_> i doubt he's doing something actively hostile
| |
| 12:32 | he just doesn't think what he is doing is wrong
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| 12:32 | <cyberorg> http://news.opensuse.org/
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| 12:32 | <warren> Some people need attitude adjustment
| |
| 12:33 | <johnny_> that would be great
| |
| 12:33 | our hal maintainer quit
| |
| 12:33 | because he thought his issues were not being properly taken care of
| |
| 12:33 | <warren> volunteer or employee?
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| 12:34 | <johnny_> davidz
| |
| 12:34 | <warren> We pride ourselves about our general relationship with upstream. If one of our developers is behaving as you describe then they deserve a stern talk.
| |
| 12:35 | johnny: I meant your hal maintainer
| |
| 12:35 | <johnny_> oh.. we don't have employees remember :)
| |
| 12:35 | of course he's not the best person to interact with, when he is upset
| |
| 12:36 | i don't think his discussion was entirely productive after he felt he had been wronged
| |
| 12:36 | <warren> who?
| |
| 12:36 | <johnny_> doug goldstein
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| 12:36 | or perhaps doug klima.. i'm not sure why he uses both names
| |
| 12:39 | plus i think folks are not doing a good enough job of explaining why policykit is needed in general..
| |
| 12:39 | <warren> So he would go for weeks/months without upstream checkins
| |
| 12:39 | then suddenly a big checkin?
| |
| 12:39 | was it split out into multiple checkins for each change?
| |
| 12:39 | did it have sufficient changelogs for each?
| |
| 12:41 | makghosh has quit IRC | |
| 12:41 | <johnny_> seems to look better now
| |
| 12:41 | perhaps the issue is solved
| |
| 12:41 | i just remember people being really upset about the way it was around last november
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| 12:44 | makghosh has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:45 | <johnny_> hmm.. i feel like i'm a bad person to explain the situation
| |
| 12:46 | as i am not directly involved with gentoo development
| |
| 12:46 | as in being a developer
| |
| 12:46 | the person you should ask about this is Cardoe here on freenode
| |
| 12:46 | see how he sees the situation at this point
| |
| 12:47 | <warren> In general if people are displeased with the way Fedora is treating any upstream project, they should write down a summary and try to keep as much emotion out of it as possible and send it to the Fedora advisory board.
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| 12:47 | K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:48 | <johnny_> hehe.. tha'ts the hard part
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| 12:48 | since it never comes to the point of sending it to the advisory board until issues have been going on for awhile
| |
| 12:48 | otherwise you're sending prematurely most likely
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| 12:48 | <warren> It need not be scolding
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| 12:48 | cliebow has joined #ltsp | |
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| 12:49 | <warren> "We have been seeing FOO and BAR and this concerns us a bit. Could you folks please consider doing BAZ?"
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| 12:53 | <johnny_> aha.. found the blog post that mentions all of it
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| 12:53 | http://blog.cardoe.com/archives/2007/12/06/no-longer-maintaining-gentoos-hal/
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| 12:54 | ok.. headin home..bbiab
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| 13:06 | <warren> eharrison: hmm, ltspfs stopped working for me on F9
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| 13:06 | eharrison: after I reinstalled my chroot
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| 13:06 | it mounts and appears on the desktop
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| 13:07 | but it is empty
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| 13:07 | part of it broke, but not all
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| 13:08 | Either I forgot to commit something to ltsp-trunk that I had in my chroot only.
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| 13:08 | Or something changed in Fedora itself.
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| 13:10 | gvfs changed twice since April 17th...
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| 13:15 | crap, it appears something broke
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| 13:15 | it is really strange
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| 13:20 | <johnny> i was told that gvfs would unmount if you killed the processes
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| 13:21 | but that isn't true
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| 13:21 | <mistik1> ogra: Glad to see you are arounf again man
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| 13:21 | around even
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| 13:22 | <cliebow> and good to see mistik1 as well ;-]
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| 13:25 | <mistik1> ;)
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| 14:19 | <lns> Q-FUNK, yo! How's testing the amd xorg driver w/Hardy? Is it working pretty well?
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| 14:20 | <Q-FUNK> lns: I still have no idea why X won't automatically find the driver.
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| 14:21 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:21 | <lns> hmmm
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| 14:21 | is that through the fairly new -autoconfigure x stuff?
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| 14:21 | <Q-FUNK> lns: however, "downgrading" geode to amd suddenly makes it work in LTSP, but not in standalone hosts.
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| 14:22 | -configure
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| 14:22 | which isn't that new
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| 14:22 | it's been there since Gutsy
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| 14:22 | there's a bug that documents all the issues fairly well: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-geode/+bug/214119
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| 14:23 | <lns> thx
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| 14:23 | <Q-FUNK> here, purging -geode and downgrading -amd to my test 2.7.7.8 package at least restores operation on LTSP, but not on standalone hosts.
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| 14:24 | the strange thing is that amd 2.7.7.7 is supposed to be == geode 2.8.0, but only amd is found by X
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| 14:26 | <lns> Q-FUNK, is 2.7.7.8 the one you've had in your repo for a couple months?
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| 14:26 | <Q-FUNK> couple of weeks
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| 14:26 | <lns> oh cool
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| 14:26 | <Q-FUNK> it's in my PPA
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| 14:26 | <lns> yea
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| 14:27 | so it gives you full res on ltsp?
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| 14:27 | last time i'd tried it still wouldn't give me more than 800x600 on a koolu tc
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| 14:27 | <Q-FUNK> 2.7.7.8 is not really an official release, since the driver was renamed to -geode and re-released as 2.8.0
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| 14:27 | koolu is a problem. they have a broken BIOS
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| 14:27 | <lns> oh really
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| 14:27 | hmm
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| 14:27 | <Q-FUNK> but 2.7.7.8 should bypass that and work
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| 14:28 | <lns> i knew general sw bios was broken
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| 14:28 | oh cool
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| 14:28 | nice =)
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| 14:28 | <Q-FUNK> all bioses sold on the geode market are broken in different ways
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| 14:28 | <lns> geez
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| 14:28 | <Q-FUNK> none of them is 100% clean
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| 14:28 | <lns> is the geode open at all?
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| 14:29 | <Q-FUNK> Insyde seems to be the most solid one, so far, but I'm sure that if I tried it, I'd find some new bug or another
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| 14:29 | <lns> heh
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| 14:29 | <Q-FUNK> what do you mean "is the geode open"?
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| 14:29 | <lns> as in open specs
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| 14:29 | <Q-FUNK> oh yes
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| 14:30 | even supported by coreboot
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| 14:30 | <lns> oh cool
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| 14:30 | so just bios needs to mature
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| 14:30 | too bad amd can't embed that into it as well ;)
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| 14:30 | <Q-FUNK> we contributed some code to support the Geode LX in Coreboot. then OLPC remixed that. now, AMD and Artec are both active contributors.
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| 14:31 | no, it's not about maturity. it's about BIOS vendors not giving a damn about the embedded market and selling uncooked shit to everyone.
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| 14:31 | <lns> hmm
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| 14:32 | so what's the outlook on coreboot becoming more mainstream in h/w manufacturing?
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| 14:32 | <Q-FUNK> e.g. with GSW, it was mostly an issue of changing the default build options. Artec submitted lots of patches to change those defaults and make them more usable.
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| 14:33 | with Award, they're not listening to anyone and most hardware manuafacturers only entered the Geode market by accident and don't really follow-up on BIOS issues, anyhow.
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| 14:34 | <lns> i see the same lack of attention toward embedded/tc market when i was talking w/sbalneav (sp?) I think in here a couple days ago
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| 14:34 | <Q-FUNK> in hardware manufacturing, forget it! most hardware manufacturers are into licensing BIOS the same way that e.g. HP prefers to just ship all their hardware with Windows pre-instaled.
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| 14:35 | <lns> as far as upstream debian ltsp commits
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| 14:35 | i dunno i'm probably not getting the whole picture but coreboot seems like a good idea to move toward
| |
| 14:35 | <Q-FUNK> as I've been able to verify times and times again, our company is a rarity in that almost everything we build boots off Coreboot, by design.
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| 14:36 | <lns> that's awesome
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| 14:37 | <Q-FUNK> I keep on getting contacts from tons of hardware vendors in the Geode market who are unhapy with their current chinese suppliers. they see that we are a free softwware contributor and that we understand that market. their chinese suppliers don't get it.
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| 14:38 | <lns> i'm sure it will take time...everything is so new still, but there's been a ton of progress over the past few years with OSS in general
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| 14:38 | just doesn't move as fast as we'd all like it to
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| 14:39 | <Q-FUNK> the only obstacle is that many of those are from USA and the currency rate is no longer good for them. whereas 1 year ago they could have bought the whole Estonia for peanuts, now the tables are turned.
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| 14:39 | <lns> heh
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| 14:39 | sucks how our economy plays a role like that
| |
| 14:40 | well i think our biggest assets are our own individual companies/contributors
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| 14:40 | <Q-FUNK> no, it's mostly that americans are not used to be on the losing side of economy. it freaks many people that they can no longer buy whatever from wherever non-US and no longer get it for a buck a dozen.
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| 14:40 | <lns> very true
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| 14:40 | i'm seeing people selling their BMWs left and right recently
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| 14:41 | "Oh, the economy!"
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| 14:41 | <Q-FUNK> they are used to be on the big end of the stick.
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| 14:42 | <lns> People get freaked out about everyone saying the economy is bad, so they stop buying stuff, and it gets worse - but nobody lowers their prices
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| 14:42 | <Q-FUNK> e.g. two recent contacts I got from US were like...
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| 14:42 | Yeegods! a year ago and we could have just bought your company and get this unpleasant branding issue taken care of but, now, you're telling me that you won't sell to use as white goods with our brand on it?
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| 14:42 | <lns> and understandably so
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| 14:43 | lol
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| 14:43 | the little guys are standing up for themselves now
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| 14:43 | <Q-FUNK> oh the arrogance " back then, we could have just bought your comapny off to fix the imposibility of selling under our own brand"
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| 14:43 | <lns> i smell dotcom bust v2.0
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| 14:44 | <Q-FUNK> I smell USbust 1.0
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| 14:44 | the 30's crisis will sound like a piece of cake, compared to that
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| 14:44 | <lns> there are dependencies in there somewhere i think ;)
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| 14:44 | <Q-FUNK> not anymore
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| 14:45 | I used ot think that if US goes bust, the rest of the world will fall down in town. not anymore.
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| 14:45 | <lns> bah
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| 14:45 | no way
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| 14:45 | the US is just used to thinking they're the cornerstone of the planet
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| 14:45 | at least politically and economically
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| 14:45 | <Q-FUNK> I've recently seen plenty of signs that countries are able to do just fine trading only with non-US markets.
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| 14:45 | used to.
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| 14:45 | exactly
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| 14:46 | <lns> we're still a very young country
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| 14:46 | we have a lot to learn
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| 14:46 | <Q-FUNK> the arrogance and bravado of youth.
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| 14:46 | <lns> exactly
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| 14:46 | the rebellious teenager =p
| |
| 14:46 | "I know EVERYTHING!"
| |
| 14:47 | <Q-FUNK> typical highschool bully: your mama san and I'm bigger than your dad. na na na!
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| 14:47 | <lns> heh
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| 14:47 | i don't fear what's coming to us politically
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| 14:47 | <Q-FUNK> now, gimme all your goodies, LOOSER!!!
| |
| 14:47 | I'm sad for the economic hardship US will experience, but politically this will be a really beneficial cleanup.
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| 14:48 | <lns> i agree
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| 14:48 | i think, as long as the PEOPLE stick together we can revamp how we do things
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| 14:49 | a big thing i see with LTSP and energy in general that we can benefit from is touting the very little energy thin clients take
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| 14:49 | that can help the economy as well as giving us all a good base to build business on
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| 14:49 | not to mention spreading OSS
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| 14:49 | <Q-FUNK> funny you mention that
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| 14:49 | <lns> people are very money conscious now, and vista's fallout seems like the absolute perfect opportunity
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| 14:51 | <Q-FUNK> a pal today got scared for his job. the reasoon?
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| 14:51 | he came up up with a REALLY efficient graphics rendering engine. his boss literally freaked out, because they have a partnership with Intel, who obviously has an interest in people WANTING more powerfull CPU.
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| 14:51 | <lns> wow
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| 14:51 | see that's the thing right there
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| 14:51 | "More power!"
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| 14:52 | Everyone's used to having an SUV under their desk
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| 14:52 | <Q-FUNK> and of course, a super efficient rendering engine that makes an old P3 feel as fast as an opteron is bad news for CPU sales.
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| 14:52 | <lns> well the CPU manufacturers will have to adapt
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| 14:53 | look at how intel's following amd and others in the low power market
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| 14:53 | <Q-FUNK> that's the same idea: curse against SUV drivers who endanger everyone, but insist on dropping your kids to school with the biggest badass humvee money can buy
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| 14:53 | <lns> i won't start ranting about the media promoting SUVs the way they have in the past few years
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| 14:54 | <lns> it's a big ugly system in place right now, but i do think people are starting to wake up a bit from it all
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| 14:54 | <Q-FUNK> what doesn't help is how SUV are portraed as environmentally cleaner than e.g. prius or biodiesel
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| 14:54 | the ecnomic crash will force them to wake up
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| 14:54 | <lns> well yeah they try to tout their "economy" and "safety"
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| 14:54 | it's all a mask
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| 14:54 | yup
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| 14:54 | and you know
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| 14:55 | thin client computing is just one of many things people will be very open to after that
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| 14:55 | especially with FOSS software out there
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| 14:55 | nobody likes vista
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| 14:55 | especially business/education sector
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| 14:55 | <Q-FUNK> here, in EU, we all look at this in disbelief and shake our heads. we all end up happy to give shelter who whichever american wants to escape all this and convert to european frugality.
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| 14:56 | <lns> Q-FUNK, there are more here than you think that are willing
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| 14:56 | the media you are exposed to from here is a big ugly mask
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| 14:56 | the people know what's going on
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| 14:56 | <Q-FUNK> vista (and xp, already) was recommended against by the physician union, because the EULA allows MS to install/remove whatever they want, including some patient record management software
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| 14:56 | <lns> doesn't surprise me
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| 14:57 | <Q-FUNK> we don't even pahy attention to the mass media, TBH
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| 14:57 | <lns> tbh?
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| 14:57 | oh
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| 14:57 | nm
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| 14:57 | <Q-FUNK> to be honnest
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| 14:57 | <lns> =p
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| 14:57 | that's good
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| 14:57 | <Q-FUNK> at least, er,e nobody except politicians seem to believe what they see in the media, ablout US or anywhere else
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| 14:57 | <lns> there are plenty of "normal" people who don't believe bush even won the election in 04
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| 14:58 | <lns> yeah
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| 14:58 | it's as fictional as the sitcoms they show
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| 14:58 | and sad
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| 14:58 | youtube is making a lot of change, and i thank them for that
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| 14:58 | too bad adobe has their hands in all that =p
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| 14:59 | <Q-FUNK> politics everywhere has beocme a big sitcom. nobody really believes in democracy, as a result of that. then againt, caveat: they have the guns.
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| 14:59 | we don't.
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| 14:59 | <lns> i think people believe in democracy
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| 14:59 | just not our retarted tumor of one
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| 14:59 | <Q-FUNK> in too many countries, getting a gun or your rights has become the rarity, rather than the norm.
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| 15:00 | <lns> i have guns
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| 15:00 | and i'm very proud to have them
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| 15:00 | <Q-FUNK> it doesn't help that most people's definition of democracy is limited to "the right to cast a ballot every few years"
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| 15:00 | <lns> because the constitution tells me i need them to defend against the government
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| 15:00 | right
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| 15:00 | <Q-FUNK> and you do
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| 15:01 | but most countries out there have no such right in the constitution
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| 15:01 | including your neighbor up north
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| 15:01 | <lns> is that true? I thought you could have guns there. i remember seeing a documentary that played off of that
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| 15:02 | <Q-FUNK> that's because most govenrments know too damn well that a fully armed populace can stand and get rid of them when things have gone too far
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| 15:02 | <lns> michael more went to canada and there was a bank that was gtiving away a free rifle to set up a bank acct
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| 15:02 | <Q-FUNK> bull
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| 15:02 | canada has gun regulations as strict as EU
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| 15:02 | <lns> well, tbh, it's all still just 'law'
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| 15:02 | which is someone's idea
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| 15:03 | <Q-FUNK> few people realize it, but canada has been keeping its laws aligned with both US and EU for ages already
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| 15:03 | <lns> breaking the law isn't going to automatically give you the death penalty
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| 15:03 | i can see that
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| 15:03 | they seem fairly conforming
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| 15:04 | "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"
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| 15:04 | <Q-FUNK> the few points where the US protests tend to be cases where canada prefered to align with EU
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| 15:04 | <Q-FUNK> but again, US is used to think that canada is just a 52nd state
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| 15:04 | <lns> right
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| 15:04 | i think the whole thing is laughable really
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| 15:05 | if you take yourself out of the whole country/government equation
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| 15:05 | we're all just people
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| 15:05 | we have the opportunity to change whatever we want (or at least try to)
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| 15:05 | The_Code_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:05 | <lns> and we have some pretty awesome tools to do that with these days
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| 15:05 | the trick is to keep it under the radar
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| 15:05 | so as to not pull TOO much attention while making that change
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| 15:05 | <Q-FUNK> ...except in countries where the right to carry weapons is not constitutionally guaranteed
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| 15:06 | <lns> get them unconstitutionally then
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| 15:06 | <Q-FUNK> and get gitmo for life, too
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| 15:06 | they call it "rendition" suspects
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| 15:06 | <lns> hm
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| 15:07 | hey i'll bbl - nice chat thou
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| 15:07 | <Q-FUNK> I'm about to head home and get some sleep, but sure, let's continue some other time :)
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| 17:17 | <johnny> hmm..
| |
| 17:17 | * johnny tries to figure out how to make flash be unavailable on the thin clients... | |
| 17:17 | <ogra> thats a tricky one
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| 17:18 | <johnny> ogra.. you broke my computer :(
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| 17:18 | jk..
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| 17:18 | <ogra> wasnt me
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| 17:18 | <johnny> but i spent like 2 hours trying to figure out why i couldn't install libgl1-mesa
| |
| 17:18 | * ogra hasnt written any line in the flash code | |
| 17:18 | <ogra> because it ws installed ?
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| 17:18 | <johnny> libgl symlink
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| 17:19 | i had a quick flirt with fglrx before i found out how good the radeon driver was
| |
| 17:19 | i uninstalled it
| |
| 17:19 | but it wasn't really gone
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| 17:19 | <ogra> ah
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| 17:19 | <johnny> i couldn't figure out anything to do other than edit diversions file manually
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| 17:19 | which took me hours to figure out
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| 17:19 | debian packaging is too complicated
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| 17:20 | so.. the upgrade died
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| 17:20 | it was in it's final stages, but i'm not sure if it is truly clean
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| 17:20 | <ogra> apt-get remove xorg-driver-fglrx
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| 17:20 | :P
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| 17:20 | <johnny> it wasn't installed
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| 17:20 | <ogra> that contains its own libgl1-mesa
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| 17:20 | <johnny> i know
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| 17:21 | <ogra> oh ? how did you manage to get fglrx working then ?
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| 17:21 | <johnny> <johnny> i had a quick flirt with fglrx before i found out how good the radeon driver was
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| 17:21 | this was a few months ago
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| 17:21 | i had removed it previously
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| 17:21 | it just left crap in diversions
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| 17:21 | so.. how do i know if the upgrade is really done?
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| 17:22 | it was in the final stages
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| 17:22 | like last minute or something
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| 17:23 | <ogra> lsb_release -a ?
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| 17:23 | <johnny> aha.. it says hardy
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| 17:23 | for awhile it said sid
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| 17:24 | guess after i tried update-manager again ,it solved it
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| 17:24 | <johnny> no.. it said something like lenny/sid
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| 17:26 | i guess the only way to solve the flash issue in the short term..
| |
| 17:26 | is to provide a wrapper
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| 17:28 | oh.. silly me... won't firefox use a local plugins directory ?
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| 17:28 | :)
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| 17:33 | <johnny> but then again.. that won't let me keep it up to date
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| 17:33 | automatically via apt
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| 17:44 | <ogra> lenny/sid ?
| |
| 17:44 | thast mess
| |
| 17:44 | *thats
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| 17:44 | you cant mix ubuntu and debian, did you have debian repos in your sources.list ?
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| 17:46 | <johnny> no
| |
| 17:46 | oh.. duh. that was me being dumb.. i looked at the wrong file
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| 17:46 | /etc/debian_release :(
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| 17:46 | instead of /etc/lsb-release
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| 17:47 | so.. the problem i mentioned around the time i personally upgraded to gnome 2.22 turns out to be true..
| |
| 17:47 | gvfs mounts DO NOT go away when you kill the processes
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| 17:47 | and sometimes not even when you properly log out
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| 17:48 | at that time, you weren't sure that the gvfs fuse integration was going to be included
| |
| 17:48 | but.. it definitely is :)
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| 17:48 | <ogra> yeah
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| 17:48 | i see the mounts
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| 17:49 | <johnny> had to adjust my prep_terminals.sh script
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| 17:49 | <ogra> way worse is that apps started with sudo that have any widget that uses recent documents starts a gvfs mount for root
| |
| 17:49 | <johnny> which rm -rf home directories
| |
| 17:50 | aha.. i saw that once too :(
| |
| 17:50 | <ogra> gvfs-fuse-daemon on /root/.gvfs type fuse.gvfs-fuse-daemon (rw,nosuid,nodev)
| |
| 17:50 | <johnny> din't realize where it came from
| |
| 17:50 | <ogra> :(
| |
| 17:50 | <johnny> that is totally lame
| |
| 17:50 | <ogra> i found it in gdmsetup
| |
| 17:50 | <johnny> gvfs was not ready
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| 17:50 | <ogra> two days before release ist started a trackerd for root
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| 17:51 | at least that one got fixed
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| 17:51 | <johnny> also.. damn thing spikes to 100% sometimes
| |
| 17:51 | wtf is up with that
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| 17:51 | <ogra> no idea
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| 17:51 | <johnny> i need a new boxen
| |
| 17:51 | <ogra> well, upstream decided to make the cange
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| 17:51 | <johnny> gvfsd-trash i think
| |
| 17:51 | <ogra> *change
| |
| 17:51 | we jsu followed ...
| |
| 17:52 | *just
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| 17:52 | <johnny> uggh.. i hate computers ;(
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| 21:10 | <petre> evening all
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| 21:17 | ?warren
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| 21:17 | ? warren
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| 21:18 | what's the irc syntax for checking the last time a specified user posted?
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| 21:32 | <warren> petre: what's up
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| 21:32 | <petre> uh, I can't remember now :-(
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| 21:34 | <warren> rebooting, brb
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| 21:39 | Here's another bug that I wonder if other distros have already fixed:
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| 21:39 | Plug USB stick into one client, it appears not only on your own client, but all other logged in clients.
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| 21:40 | rebooting, brb
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| 21:54 | <lns> petre, it's !last i believe
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| 21:54 | !last ogra
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| 21:54 | <ltspbot> lns: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
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| 21:54 | <lns> yup
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| 21:55 | <petre> let me try that (even though I've forgotten why I was looking for warren)
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| 21:55 | !last warren
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| 21:55 | <ltspbot> petre: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message must match; (1 more message)
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| 21:55 | <lns> sorry i think w/o the !
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| 21:56 | last warren
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| 21:56 | guess not
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| 21:56 | <petre> last warren
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| 21:56 | <lns> oh wait
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| 21:56 | heh
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| 21:56 | <petre> !last --from warren
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| 21:56 | <ltspbot> petre: [21:40:28] <warren> rebooting, brb
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| 21:56 | <warren> !last --from warren
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| 21:56 | <ltspbot> warren: [21:40:28] <warren> rebooting, brb
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| 21:56 | <petre> that's it
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| 21:56 | <lns> =p nm
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| 21:56 | laggy bot
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| 22:27 | * warren might have figured out what's causing ltspfs to fail immediately after a fresh install | |
| 22:27 | <warren> testing it... this will take a while
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| 22:27 | brb
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