IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 March 2018 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:58 | <Miguel905> THIS IS A FREENODE BREAKING NEWS ALERT!! Hitechcg AND opal ARE GOING AT IT RIGHT NOW WITH A LOT OF FIGHTING AND ARGUING WOW YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS!! TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION...AGAIN TYPE /JOIN ## TO SEE THE ACTION!!
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| 05:58 | quinox vsuojanen kjackal adrianorg ltsp ogra_ lee fiesh sbalneav TatankaT vlt ||cw highvoltage markus_e92 tek__ book`_ spectra pppingme PeperPots____ alexxtasi[m] alkisg Hyperbyte bcg zama bitchecker tarzeau dragon788 sutula Natureshadow coseus zamba
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| 07:33 | <fiesh> alkisg: ok, so the clients (all of them) reliably lose network connectivity over night and don't even regain it
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| 07:34 | <alkisg> fiesh: did you try a VM client?
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| 07:34 | Or, a standalone client that is still up and you could check its logs?
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| 07:36 | <fiesh> I just rebooted it, hehe, the standalone client, but the problem is I cannot do anything any more. dmesg complains about the nfs server not responding any more (which is obvious given the network's down), and ping went to network unreachable
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| 07:39 | I have remote logging on with syslogd, but of course it doesn't work any more when the network is down
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| 07:40 | alkisg: but I can reproduce it over night :) what's the next step you suggest?
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> Yeah that's why the standalone client was the key
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| 07:40 | standalone and VM
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| 07:40 | And, thinking what can be the cause; e.g. a cleaning lady that pulls the switch plug to put the vacuumn cleaner :P
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| 07:40 | <fiesh> haha
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| 07:40 | <alkisg> (I've actually had that issue, it took me a while to get the school to discover that :D)
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| 07:41 | fiesh: btw, do you also have old-style (NFS-booted) clients that get the same issue?
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| 07:41 | I.e. so that we make sure it's not related at all to our changes?
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| 07:43 | <fiesh> the thin clients do not have that issue
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| 07:43 | I haven't tried the NFS fat client
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| 07:46 | <alkisg> Aaah got one idea. What about dhclient, maybe it's asking for a new ip lease
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| 07:46 | Boot a client and check if dhclient is running
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| 07:46 | Normally ltsp clients don't renew their leases at all, but possibly the dracut initramfs has bad support for ip renewal
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| 07:48 | fiesh: ^
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| 08:06 | <fiesh> ah
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| 08:06 | that's a great idea, will check in a bit
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| 08:11 | <alkisg> fiesh: if you get this again this night, I'll try to reproduce it here locally
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| 08:17 | <fiesh> so there is no dhclient running at all
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| 08:17 | on the fat client
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| 08:17 | however, also not on the thin client
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| 08:18 | so who's renewing the lease anyway?!
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| 08:19 | alkisg: is there a dhclient supposed to be running?
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> fiesh: if dhclient isn't running, I assume there's no lease renewal, so that's not the issue
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| 08:20 | <fiesh> but shouldn't the lease expire at some point?
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> Yes, and ltsp clients ignore that completely :D
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| 08:20 | <fiesh> at least the dhcp server might give away the ip address to some other device?
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| 08:20 | hmm
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| 08:20 | <alkisg> Usually dhcp servers ping before assigning a new address
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| 08:20 | So it's not an issue
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| 08:20 | <fiesh> ah ok
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| 08:21 | <alkisg> What's your dhcp lease time?
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| 08:21 | If it's less than a day, do try increasing it to 2 days just for a test
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| 08:21 | <fiesh> hmm whatever the isc dhcpd default sto
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| 08:22 | but I guess it should be mainly up to the client
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| 08:22 | they request a lease time
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| 08:22 | <alkisg> https://www.isc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/dhcp41conf.html => The default is 43200 seconds.
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| 08:22 | No, dhcp clients don't request a lease time
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| 08:23 | This is 12 hours, it matches...
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| 08:23 | <fiesh> yes, it does match
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| 08:23 | hmm
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> Try increasing default-lease-time 4 times
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| 08:23 | To48 hours
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| 08:23 | If it's that, we'll check how to properly solve it
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| 08:23 | <fiesh> ok, good idea!
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Although netbooted clients had better get an infinite lease anyway :)
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| 08:25 | <fiesh> the question is if that makes any sense, I suppose the lease time exists to allow ip addresses to be renewable
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| 08:25 | reusable
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| 08:25 | I'd be fine with using link level ipv6 too, which wouldn't require dhcp
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> Well, if you have new clients all the time, then it does make sense to have them renewable, but if not, it's best to give ltsp clients an infinite lease
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| 08:26 | <fiesh> or actual ipv6, we have that too, but I found it surprisingly difficult to use it, because our router does the ipv6 advertisement, and then it has to cross the server, and go to the clients
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| 08:26 | <alkisg> There's no guarantee in the protocol that a client will keep its current ip after a lease renewal
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| 08:26 | So, the only official way to keep ltsp clients running, is an infinite lease
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| 08:27 | ipv6 support in ltsp isn't well tested
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| 08:28 | Check also dynamic-bootp-lease-cutoff date in the dhcpd link above
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| 08:28 | <fiesh> ah so it does assign infinite leases by default to bootp?!
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| 08:29 | so I suppose it's a bug that the fat clients' lease isn't infinite, whereas the thin clients' one is?
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| 08:30 | <alkisg> It's possible that dracut is doing a different dhcp request, but I don't think that's actually the case
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| 08:30 | I believe thin clients are just more tolerant than nbd
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| 08:30 | nfs and sshfs can survive even network cable unplugging, while nbd can't
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| 08:31 | <fiesh> but from the documentation of dynamic-bootp-lease-cutoff, the dhcp lease should already be infinite
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| 08:31 | but the network goes away and doesn't come back
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| 08:31 | <alkisg> I believe both thin and fat clients do NOT request bootp leases
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| 08:31 | <fiesh> oh I see
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| 08:31 | isn't that incorrect behavior?
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> bootp isn't the same as pxe
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| 08:32 | It's an older protocol with its own issues
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| 08:32 | <fiesh> I know, but the lease type might be correct, no?
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> It's possible that ltsp clients could fake being bootp clients, but I'm not sure if sysadmins would like that
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| 08:32 | <fiesh> hmm ok
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> And it would require support from dracut and initramfs-tools, outside the ltsp code base
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| 08:33 | One other test that we can do, is to netboot a fat client using nfs
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| 08:33 | <fiesh> I'll first go for the 48h lease
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| 08:33 | <alkisg> That nfs will still be booted using dracut, but since nfs is more tolerant than nbd, it may tell us if the problem is dracut or disconnections
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| 08:33 | <fiesh> well the ping that I ran here stayed dead
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| 08:33 | so the network didn't come back at all
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| 08:34 | <alkisg> You're pinging from the server to the client and the client doesn't reply? Yeah that suggests an "ifdown" event...
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| 08:34 | But it's not certain, it might be that the client has hanged due to the nbd file system being unavailable
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| 08:35 | <fiesh> I've been pinging the server from the client
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| 08:35 | and ping was still running, it just didn't get any responses and complained that the network was down
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| 08:36 | but I think you're most likely right that dracut is to blame for the change
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| 08:36 | I could even live with setting the default-lease-time of dhcpd to 2^31-1, 68 years would be fine with me
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| 08:36 | <alkisg> Let's try 48 hours first, it should be enough as a test
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| 08:38 | <fiesh> yes
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| 08:38 | changed the setting and rebooted this client (and not the others, so we have a reference)
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| 08:42 | <alkisg> I think you'll need to restart dhcpd for the change to take effect, and then reboot the client
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| 08:42 | If you can also boot a client over dracut/nfs, that would give us valuable feedback too
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| 08:52 | <fiesh> did that
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| 08:52 | I'll do that too
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| 08:54 | the NFS is going to have a lease time of 48h too then though
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| 08:54 | or should I give it 12h?
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| 08:54 | I can restart dhcpd again and reset it
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> Both of those tests are useful (nfs on 12 or 48h), so whatever you like there
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| 09:01 | <fiesh> ok, I'll leave it at 48h then for now
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| 09:01 | to have fewer parameters
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| 13:28 | <nehemiah> Is there any known problem with LTSP when the server is running nvidia proprietary drivers?
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| 13:30 | I get a bunch of 'GLX missing on display...' errors. The only thing I can see that's different from other setups is that the nvidia proprietary drivers are installed.
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| 13:53 | <||cw> you're using pnp right? do the clients have nv cards?
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| 13:53 | the server's graphics capabilities are irrelevant
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| 13:56 | <nehemiah> I use ltsp-manager
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| 13:58 | The clients do not.
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| 14:14 | <||cw> so where do you get the errors?
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| 14:14 | if the clients don't have glx, than that would be expected
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| 14:40 | <nehemiah> The error occurred when starting evolution mail. Setting the server to use Nouveau driver actually solved the problem. No idea how that works. But I'm happy that it works now.
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| 19:01 | <quinox> he left already; the reason is that the nvidia binary driver replaced system libraries, and if you use that installation with other graphical drivers things break
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| 19:02 | the open source drivers are excellent for office work though, so I don't bother with the closed source anymore
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