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08:45 | <sbalneav_> Morning all
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08:45 | hmm
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08:46 | not who I normally am
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08:46 | <sbalneav> There that's better
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08:46 | Morning all
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08:46 | <epaphus> Hello... can Ekiga run as a local app?
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08:46 | morning sbalneav
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08:46 | <sbalneav> epaphus: I think some people have
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08:47 | <epaphus> thats what i hear also...
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08:47 | but i thought it had a certain dependancy that made it really difficult..?
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08:48 | <sbalneav> Well the simplest way would just be to try :)
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08:48 | <dro> good morning sbalneav
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08:48 | <sbalneav> then, if you DO run into difficulties, you can document it on a wiki somewhere
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08:48 | <epaphus> welll yeah and no. i wanted to find out before i try :P
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08:48 | <sbalneav> so that next time someone asks "Does ekiga work as a local app", then we can say "http://....
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08:49 | epaphus: Well, the previous person who tried, didn't document.
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08:49 | <sbalneav> So...
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08:49 | dro: Morning.
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08:49 | <dro> document it so it can be shared for the future
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08:49 | <sbalneav> Correct
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08:49 | <dro> I <3 the documenation I've found for ubuntu+ltsp
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08:50 | <sbalneav> Nubae did a lot of work on the wiki
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08:50 | and I maintain the upstream docs
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08:50 | <dro> sbalneav: how is the sourceforge website working out?
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08:51 | <sbalneav> In what way?
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08:52 | <dro> sbalneav: i know the other server you were using was having issues or something and you were debating what to do with the site
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08:54 | <sbalneav> I belive we're using Sourceforge now for the upstream wiki
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08:54 | I don't know if jammcq's got everything moved over yet or not.
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08:55 | <dro> cool cool
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08:56 | <dro> I've been on vacation for a week, my brain isn't functioning again yet
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09:10 | <Lumiere> dro: could be worse...
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09:11 | you could have a snow day from work :)
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09:11 | <dro> lol I missed work
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09:19 | <grantk> hello, wondering if anyone knew how to change keyboard layout for clients. I have a server installed using a vm template that originated in France, I went through setup and it did not allow me to change keyboard, It was not apparent that it was set for French settings, not US until trying to login as a user with the ltsp install. I was able to change on the server, but did not know how to change the ltsp portion, do I have to do the ltsp-bu
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09:20 | <dro> grantk: probably need to change it in the chroot or in lts.conf
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09:21 | <grantk> dro: ok, I checked lts.conf, It has been a while since I made any changes to ltsp, If I recall chroot is going to basically be the same files to change as a normal system right?
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09:21 | <dro> grantk: found this link, it should help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=211061
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09:22 | grantk: I'm not 100% sure but check out that post
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09:22 | <grantk> dro: ohh, sweet, thanks, second reply looked awesome
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09:23 | <dro> grantk: np
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10:02 | <CAN-o-SPAM> Morning all!
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10:04 | <dro> good morning
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10:30 | <stgraber> I'll be tagging a new ltsp in 5 minutes if nobody has objections (to include the gid fix and a screen-session.d bug)
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10:52 | <stgraber> just for everyone's information, I uploaded a new LTSP to Lucid, it's the first time LTSP is shipped without HAL for a while
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10:52 | so I'll quite soon start to cleanup all of upstream scripts so they don't depend on hal anymore
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10:52 | as hal is being dropped as a dependency at least in Ubuntu (I suspect other distros are doing the same too)
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10:54 | * alkisg will help in testing, thanks stgraber.... | |
10:54 | <stgraber> I'll be doing a backport for Karmic in a few minutes
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10:54 | <Ahmuck-Sr> what replaces hal?
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10:54 | <johnny> udev
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10:55 | <stgraber> part will be done by devicekit, the rest is done directly with udev
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10:55 | <johnny> udev, udisks (formerly devicekit-disks), upower (formerly devicekit-power)
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10:55 | and on the media player front, media-player-info
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10:55 | <Ahmuck-Sr> that's what i thought. udev started making it's appearence in 2003 iirc with lfs ?
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10:55 | <johnny> with lfs?
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10:55 | no
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10:56 | more like suse/redhat
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10:56 | <Ahmuck-Sr> earlier than that?
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10:56 | <johnny> and gentoo
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10:56 | <Ahmuck-Sr> well, gentoo was automated lfs :)
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10:56 | <johnny> a bit..
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10:56 | <Ahmuck-Sr> about what time frame?
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10:57 | <johnny> go to the udev site, look for the earlier tarball
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10:57 | there ya go
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10:57 | <Ahmuck-Sr> has udev made things more complicated for the user/admin ?
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10:57 | <johnny> uhmm.. maybe.. but it also allowed linux to be a decent plug and play OS..
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10:57 | before, it was all hardcoded in the kernel
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10:58 | <alkisg> I have an HP T5000 thin client (lspci: http://pastebin.com/f54fb6198) where only one specific user can login, while other users (or new users) fail to login.
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10:58 | Can someone help in locating the problem? Here's the working user's .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/f75183c8a
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10:58 | And here's the non-working user's .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/f54fb6198
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10:58 | <johnny> actually.. before that.. iwas devfs.. which was similiar to udev..
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10:58 | but devfs never really got maintained
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10:58 | <alkisg> Oops, correct link for lspci: http://pastebin.com/f186fe285
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10:58 | <johnny> kinda died later..
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10:59 | Ahmuck, i recommend you read about greg k-h .. one of the most prolific usb maintainers
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10:59 | you'll find the entire store if you cross ref udev and greg kroah-hartman
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11:00 | <Ahmuck-Sr> hrm, that will be an interesting read, on the paper presented in 2003
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11:01 | johnny: ah yes, i recall now that was the disucssion at lfs, choosing which to use iirc, devfs or udev
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11:01 | <johnny> well.. not much of a choice really
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11:01 | devfs was dyin
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11:02 | <Ahmuck-Sr> johnny: actually, i've set down and started reading the kroah-hartman pdf
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11:02 | pape
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11:02 | <johnny> the design of udev was obviously better
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11:02 | <Ahmuck-Sr> r
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11:07 | <alkisg> @(#@*&$(@ I can login with vesa with any user...
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11:08 | ...but I don't understand how does this specific user can log in without specifying vesa!
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11:08 | <sbalneav> alkisg: have a look at their group membership
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11:09 | <alkisg> sbalneav: they're the same
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11:09 | <sbalneav> really? Freeeeeeeeeeaaaaky
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11:09 | I was thinking the one was a member of "video" or something that the others weren't
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11:10 | /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80_ltsp-sound: 7: /usr/bin/asoundconf: not found
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11:10 | <alkisg> LANG=en_US.UTF-8 id aggelos && id sotitz # sotitz = the working user
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11:10 | uid=1014(aggelos) gid=1014(aggelos) groups=1014(aggelos),4(adm),20(dialout),21(fax),24(cdrom),25(floppy),26(tape),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),106(fuse),115(admin),122(sambashare)
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11:10 | uid=1011(sotitz) gid=1011(sotitz) ομάδες=1011(sotitz),4(adm),20(dialout),21(fax),24(cdrom),25(floppy),26(tape),30(dip),44(video),46(plugdev),106(fuse),115(admin),122(sambashare)
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11:10 | <sbalneav> wonder if that's turning you
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11:11 | <alkisg> But how can that be different in one user?!!!
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11:11 | <sbalneav> path settings in their .bashrc?
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11:11 | <alkisg> Ah, looking...
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11:11 | <sbalneav> I'm purely speculating
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11:27 | <alkisg> Nah, no sugar :(
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11:27 | <Ahmuck> ομάδες=1011(sotitz)
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11:28 | not sure it matters, but that should be groups=1011(sotitz)
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11:28 | <alkisg> Ahmuck: that's just the translated greek word...
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11:28 | <Ahmuck> correct. so if it wasn't translated, would it change things?
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11:28 | is there a specific login process that is looking for the word in english?
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11:29 | <alkisg> Uh, no, that's just the output of the command, and it's the same for both users
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11:29 | I just did LANG=en to change it to english for you guys, but that only affected the first `id` command
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11:35 | <Ahmuck> remove /home/user/.config/metacity from offending user?
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11:42 | <alkisg> Ahmuck: with new users I'm not able to login
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11:42 | So there must be something special in the working user's home dir, that makes things work right...
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11:43 | Also, with XSERVER=vesa I'm able to login with any user
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11:49 | <johnny> prove it..
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11:49 | <johnny> remove the working user's ~/ stuff
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12:05 | <Gadi> stgraber: ping
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12:10 | <alkisg> johnny: proven :( The .xsession-errors, after moving the working user's home dir, and creating another: http://pastebin.com/f604255b
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12:10 | It's just like any other user's .xsession-errors now...
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12:12 | <alkisg> Gadi: Some ideas about an X/xsession problem? I got an HP T5000 thin client (lspci: http://pastebin.com/f186fe285) and I'm *only* able to login with a specific user. BUT if I set XSERVER=vesa, then I'm able to login with any user!
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12:12 | Working user's .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/f75183c8a Non working: http://pastebin.com/f54fb6198
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12:19 | Ah, narrowed it down to ~/.local, .gconf or .config...
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12:22 | <Gadi> alkisg: remove the user's .Xauthority
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12:22 | if he has one
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12:22 | <alkisg> Gadi: I created a new user, copied ~/.gconf from the working user, and this new user can login now
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12:22 | So something in ~/.gconf is making the difference... well... I'll just do a binary search :(
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12:24 | <johnny> question..
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12:24 | does local firefox seem slow for other folks?
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12:24 | to open i mean
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12:24 | and is there any way to speed it up?
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12:27 | <stgraber> Gadi: pong
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12:34 | <alkisg> Found it, this makes the users able to login: gconftool-2 --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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12:34 | I've no idea why, though...
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12:35 | Is that compiz-related?
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12:35 | <highvoltage> sbalneav: are you around?
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12:36 | <Ahmuck-Sr> anybody using google chrome with ltsp?
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12:39 | <Gadi> alkisg: almost definitely
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12:39 | stgraber: did you "upstart-ify" the initscripts in ur lucid pkg?
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12:40 | <alkisg> Bah... I'm with sbalneav on this, compiz is utterly useless :D
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12:51 | <stgraber> Gadi: not yet, I've been doing some upstart work recently but so far, only get a few services to start
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12:51 | Gadi: getting everything ported to upstart, tested and optimized is quite a lot of work :)
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12:51 | Gadi: btw, you mentioned you found a clean version of your rm -Rf patch for rdesktop, do you have an URL for that ?
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12:52 | <Gadi> I can do better - if you give me an email addy, I can send you my debian/patches directory
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12:53 | <alkisg> Heh, open-invaders works fine with LTSP... allegro >> SDL ;)
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12:53 | <stgraber> alkisg: congratz !
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12:53 | <alkisg> Thanks!
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13:01 | <Gadi> stgraber: sent
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13:02 | <stgraber> Gadi: thanks
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13:05 | <Gadi> stgraber: fyi - someone just posted a patch yesterday for full-color cursors
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13:05 | <vagrantc> stgraber: hey, were you planning on obsoleting your method for shutdown in favor of alkisg's ?
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13:05 | or will we have both methods long term?
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13:07 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I'll switch to alkis' method (as in, use X atoms), no idea when I'll have the patch in gnome though so it's likely I'll have to keep my localapps hack to get the menu entries
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13:08 | <vagrantc> stgraber: was also hoping to sync up our debian dirs a little ... there's always going to be some divergence, but i'd like to sync up what we can
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13:10 | <alkisg> stgraber: I think you can change your .desktop files to use X atoms, no? I think cyberorg came up with a .desktop file that works on both gnome and KDE...
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13:11 | (=call xprop and then dbus and dcop to logout)
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13:14 | <stgraber> alkisg: ok, I'll probably update them this week when I find some time
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13:14 | <alkisg> np from me :)
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13:50 | <akuepker> anybody know offhand how to specifically disable the floppy in local devices? I can trust my co-workers with their own USB sticks, but not necessarily well enough to not wipe their boot floppies by mistake.
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13:51 | <stgraber> I just went through all the code of current LTSP, it seems we only had 3 files or so that were mentioning hal
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13:51 | <Gadi> LOCALDEV_DENY_FLOPPY = True
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13:51 | akuepker: ^^^
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13:52 | stgraber: iirc, you were the only one who use it :)
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13:52 | *used
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13:52 | <akuepker> aha! thanks.
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13:54 | <stgraber> Gadi: hehe
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14:00 | <sbalneav> Gadi: While I've got you, will you have some time to test a fix I have to the ltspfs permissions issue?
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14:01 | <Gadi> sbalneav: the whole group ownership thing?
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14:01 | <sbalneav> yeah
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14:02 | <johnny> so.. how slow is firefox as a local app for folks?
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14:02 | just trying to see what i should be expecting
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14:02 | it seems fine once you're using it
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14:02 | it's just really really slow to launch
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14:02 | <Gadi> sbalneav: I need to recreate a test environment for it
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14:02 | <johnny> probably about 30 seconds
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14:02 | <sbalneav> Gadi: No rush
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14:02 | <Gadi> okey dokey
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14:03 | Ill add it to the list of VMs to prep
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14:03 | :)
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14:03 | johnny: regardless of client hardware specs?
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14:03 | <johnny> hard to say.. since they are all about the same..
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14:04 | <Gadi> does it take as long if you close firefox and launch a second time in the same sesion?
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14:04 | <johnny> they are all >1Ghz
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14:04 | <Gadi> *session
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14:04 | <johnny> for cpu
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14:04 | and about the same amount of ram.. but it's probably not enough .. i'm waiting for a delivery
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14:04 | didn't think ram would affect launch tho..
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14:05 | other than crashing at OOM
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14:05 | <johnny> i should install that gigabit network card again..
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14:05 | <Gadi> does it take as long if you close firefox and launch a second time in the same session?
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14:05 | <johnny> i only have 3 clients Gadi ...
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14:05 | i'll try when people aren't using them
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14:05 | <Gadi> ok
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14:06 | if it is slow upon closing and opening a second time, then it most likely has to do with low memory
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14:07 | also might depend on how heavy your default homepage s
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14:13 | <johnny> yeah.. i hope to get more ram soon
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14:13 | ok.. time to go home..
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14:49 | <vagrantc> stgraber: you removed "Should-Start: hal" from the ltsp-core init script ... but does Ubuntu even use that setting for anything?
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14:50 | stgraber: it will definitely cause problems for Debian.
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14:50 | at least until the hal stuff is dropped.
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14:51 | it's also the sort of thing that shouldn't cause problems even if it is used by Ubuntu ... it will nudge the dependencies around only if hal is present.
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14:53 | anyone seen this before: http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Default_device_from_environment_variable
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14:53 | <stgraber> vagrantc: hmm, indeed it should cause any issue, I'll revert this one
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14:53 | <vagrantc> stgraber: thanks :)
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14:54 | if that above mentioned URL works, i'd like to add a hook that sets ALSA_DEFAULT_PCM=pulse and ALSA_DEFAULT_CTL=pulse from ldm ... although maybe that wouldn't work across all distros.
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14:56 | <vagrantc> so, can we release ltsp 5.2.0 instead of 5.1.100 ?
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14:57 | it would be interesting to have a cross-distro release sync'ed or something. a show of LTSP solidarity.
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14:58 | <vagrantc> with versions, so often i hear people say "5.1.something" and it would be nice at some point to have them say "5.2.something" in order to get a ballpark estimate of what versions they're running.
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15:00 | <stgraber> making 5.1.100 the 5.2 release sounds good as we don't really have big goals that'd justify a 5.2 tag
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15:01 | it's really step by step improvement lately with no major breakage that'd justify a major version change
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15:01 | so that'd mean we'd have 5.2 probably in January ;)
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15:02 | <vagrantc> start of a new year :)
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15:04 | <sbalneav> And so this is Christmas
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15:04 | and what have you done?
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15:04 | Another year over...
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15:04 | A new rev just begun.
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21:42 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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21:44 | <Ahmuck-Sr> .
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21:46 | <sbalneav> heh, I'd say Evening in #sabayon, but there's no one there but me.
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21:47 | I have full ops, just in case I feel like kickbanning myself.
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21:56 | <Ahmuck-Sr> huh, there are 53 users there
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21:57 | <stgraber> Ahmuck-Sr: you probably are in #sabayon on freenode, that's for the sabayon disto.
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21:57 | *distro
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21:57 | for the sabayon gnome tool, that's on irc.gnome.org
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21:58 | <Ahmuck-Sr> wanting attention /
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21:58 | ?
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21:58 | <sbalneav> Nah, just thought it was funny.
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21:59 | * stgraber is playing with terminator + screen with split windows | |
21:59 | <sbalneav> Such an important tool... languished so long.
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21:59 | <stgraber> it gets really really confusing
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21:59 | as terminator lets you split your terminal window and then screen does its own splitting :)
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