IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 6 May 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:39 | * highvoltage wonders if vagrant had a hand in https://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/200-libby-clark/827669-video-84-year-old-volunteer-rebuilds-sends-linux-laptops-to-africa | |
| 07:08 | <muppis> Which dhcpd is used in 14.04 to boot client?
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> muppis: isc-dhcp as usual?
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| 07:10 | But you can install dnsmasq too...
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| 07:10 | Or are you asking the exact version/
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| 07:10 | ?
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| 07:11 | http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=isc-dhcp-server
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| 07:13 | <muppis> Just asking between isc-dhcp / dnsmasq, because none seems to be installed by default.
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| 07:14 | Or I'm just not looking from right place...
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> Did you install ltsp-server, or ltsp-server-standalone?
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| 07:18 | <muppis> -standalone, but I was just looking from wrong place. Founded already. :D
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| 07:24 | Hmm.. Created a LDAP user.
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| 07:26 | Äh. Didn't meant to write that. :D
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| 07:26 | Couldn't log in Lubuntu desktop from client. Failsafe Xterm works.
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| 07:27 | Openbox as well.
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> muppis: there's a bug report about lubuntu.desktop session in ltsp
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| 07:29 | <muppis> Oh, now I remember. You mentioned that before. :D
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| 07:33 | Thank you, again. :)
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> np
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| 08:04 | <muppis> !lubuntu
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| 08:04 | <ltsp`> Error: "lubuntu" is not a valid command.
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| 08:09 | <muppis> !learn lubuntu as To fix log in problem with Lubuntu-desktop run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dash' and answer No to question to use dash as /bin/sh.
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| 08:09 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:09 | <muppis> !learn lubuntu as To fix log in problem with Lubuntu-desktop run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dash' at server and answer No to question to use dash as /bin/sh.
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| 08:09 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:10 | <muppis> !learn lubuntu as To fix login problem with Lubuntu-desktop run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dash' at server and answer No to question to use dash as /bin/sh.
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| 08:10 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:10 | <muppis> :D
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| 08:12 | <alkisg> Better point to the bug report instead, as that's a really bad fix
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| 08:12 | It might break a lot of things and make the system slower
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| 08:21 | <muppis> !help
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| 08:21 | <ltsp`> (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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| 08:22 | <muppis> !learn lubuntu as To fix login problem with Lubuntu-desktop check this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1330252
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| 08:22 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> !lubuntu
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| 08:23 | <ltsp`> lubuntu: (#1) To fix log in problem with Lubuntu-desktop run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dash' and answer No to question to use dash as /bin/sh., or (#2) To fix log in problem with Lubuntu-desktop run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dash' at server and answer No to question to use dash as /bin/sh., or (#3) To fix login problem with Lubuntu-desktop run 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure dash' at server and answer No to question to use dash as (1 more message)
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> !forget lubuntu 1
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| 08:23 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> !forget lubuntu 1
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| 08:23 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> !forget lubuntu 1
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| 08:23 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 08:23 | <alkisg> !lubuntu
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| 08:23 | <ltsp`> lubuntu: To fix login problem with Lubuntu-desktop check this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1330252
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| 08:25 | <alkisg> muppis: did you try my workaround from comment #3? Did it work for you?
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| 08:26 | <muppis> Yes, it worked.
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| 08:41 | Now I need figure out how to transfer punch of LDAP users from old system.
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| 08:43 | <don384> hello
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| 08:44 | <alkisg> hi
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| 08:44 | <don384> help me, centos 6.6 install
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| 08:44 | ltsp install ok
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| 08:46 | <alkisg> I don't think anyone maintains LTSP for CentOS, you should probably try another distribution like Debian, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE etc
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| 08:47 | <don384> k12linux installs and works ok
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| 08:47 | <alkisg> And what is the problem?
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| 08:47 | <don384> new ltsp problems
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| 08:48 | <alkisg> What problems?
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| 08:48 | <don384> ltsp-update-image
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| 08:49 | doesn't work
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| 08:49 | <alkisg> Yes LTSP doesn't work on CentOS
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| 08:49 | Because there is no maintainer there
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| 08:49 | <don384> it's so sad
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> Yup... unfortunately it's not an LTSP issue that noone here uses that distribution...
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| 08:50 | s/uses/maintains/
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| 08:51 | <don384> can i do ot myself somehow? is it hard?
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| 08:51 | <alkisg> Can you write bash scripts?
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| 08:51 | <don384> yes i can
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> It involves solving all the problems you find, and then merging the solutions to the ltsp code base
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| 08:53 | <don384> ok, thank you? will try
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| 09:17 | <highvoltage> :)
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| 15:12 | <nocturn> Hi, Is LTSP still working on Ubuntu 14.04
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> It should be
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| 15:19 | <nocturn> Thanks alkisg
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| 16:34 | vagrantc has joined IRC (vagrantc!~vagrant@unaffiliated/vagrantc) | |
| 17:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: how does the localapp switch to using unicode work with older versions that still use strings?
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| 17:00 | alkisg: is it backwards-compatible?
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the change only affects non-ascii characters
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| 17:02 | If 8u is used, non-ascii work, otherwise they don't
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| 17:02 | <vagrantc> yes, i understand that
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> The reader side doesn't use 8s or 8u, it's the same on both cases
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| 17:02 | <vagrantc> aha
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> Open two tabs:
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| 17:03 | terminal tab1: xprop -notype -root -spy LTSP_COMMAND | while read junk_x junk_y LTSP_COMMAND ; do LTSP_COMMAND=${LTSP_COMMAND%\"}; LTSP_COMMAND=${LTSP_COMMAND#\"}; echo "To: $LTSP_COMMAND"; done
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| 17:03 | terminal tab2: xprop -root -f LTSP_COMMAND 8s -set LTSP_COMMAND "Hi - Γεια"
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| 17:03 | That breaks the "Γεια" string, but of course the ascii part, "Hi", works
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| 17:04 | If you switch 8s to 8u, both work
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| 17:04 | (a LANG=xx.UTF-8 locale is needed of course)
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| 17:06 | scripts that use xprop 8u: ./ltsp-remoteappsd ./doc/examples/ltsp-restart.desktop ./doc/examples/ltsp-shutdown.desktop ./ltsp-localappsd ./ltsp-remoteapps ./ltsp-localapps ./ltsp-genmenu
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| 17:07 | <vagrantc> ok, good.
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| 17:07 | unicode attempted to maintain comptibility with ASCII, so that moving forward would break as little as possibl
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| 17:08 | so good.
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: in a couple of places we're using LANG=C
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| 17:08 | <vagrantc> true enough
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| 17:08 | <alkisg> I think it would be better if we used LANG=C.UTF-8
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| 17:08 | What do you think?
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| 17:08 | * vagrantc isn't sure when C.UTF-8 was introduced in Debian | |
| 17:09 | <vagrantc> i think it was fairly recent
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| 17:10 | of course, having been using debian for ~15 years ... recent is a relative term ...
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| 17:10 | first mention in the debian locales changelog is 2011 ...
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| 17:11 | so it should be fine to switch, at least from a debian perspective
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> I see /usr/share/locale/C.UTF-8 in a wheezy chroot...
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| 17:12 | <vagrantc> looks like it was introduced in wheezy, it's not available by default in squeeze
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| 17:14 | so i'm fine with switching :)
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> Nice :)
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| 17:14 | * vagrantc stares at ALTLinux | |
| 17:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: stgraber mentioned he's mostly OK with syncing debian ltsp with ubuntu's
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| 17:15 | Do you want us to arrange some time to work on that?
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> that'd be nice
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> Many people are already using your packaging (from the Greek schools PPA), so we shouldn't need much work...
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> i'm sure whatever divergence needs to stay could be made conditional at build-time
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| 17:16 | now would be a good time to start, since it's early in the debian release cycle
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> It's early in Ubuntu 15.10 too, and it's not an LTS release either
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| 17:16 | stgraber: ^?
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| 17:17 | highvoltage: ^ I think it will affect the edubuntu ltsp installer too?
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| 17:17 | Do you need something there?
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> i won't have much time this week, but perhaps the following week
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> Note that we can probably add ltsp-pnp or even casper support in the installer as well
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| 17:18 | <vagrantc> yes, i wanted to make ltsp-pnp an option for the installer
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| 17:18 | dunno what casper support entails
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> Ubuntu live CDs have a squashfs file system
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| 17:19 | <vagrantc> debian-live was at one point a fork of casper?
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> One can expose that one over the network, for live fat client demonstration
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| 17:19 | <vagrantc> ah, so basically livecd ready ltsp-pnp?
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 17:19 | <vagrantc> nice
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> ltsp-pnp plays anywhere :P
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| 17:19 | <vagrantc> could probably do the same with debian-live
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> Yes, I think so, but it would need ltsp bits inside the initramfs
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| 17:20 | So a custom debian-live cd
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| 17:20 | ...while the edubuntu dvd is already ...customized
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| 17:20 | <vagrantc> simply a matter of installing ltsp-client into the build image
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| 17:20 | pretty much...
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> And a "start live server" script, yup
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| 17:21 | vagrantc: I can also implement a real "guest user" if we want it
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| 17:21 | For fat clients only, user guest/password guest everywhere
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> No sshfs, just nbd-mounted /home, or tmpfs
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| 17:22 | So that we don't have to add a bunch of users to the live server, for the clients to login with
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| 17:22 | <vagrantc> if it's a guest session, why have a persistant home at all?
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> nbd-client mounts a swap /home, then mkfs ext4 over it, and use it as a temporary home
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> swap home?
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> The swap export of nbd
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| 17:23 | Just to have 512 MB as /home
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> why not just leave it in tmpfs? to save ram?
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> It's an easy way to have 512 MB of /home, when one doesn't have enough ram
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| 17:23 | Yes
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| 17:24 | And it's easy to increase the temporary /home too, with NBDSWAP=xxx size
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| 17:24 | SWAPSIZE or whatever we call it
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| 17:24 | Of course if the nbd mount fails, we can fall back to tmpfs
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we'd probably want to create another volume for all that
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| 17:24 | alkisg: in /etc/nbd-server/config.d/
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| 17:24 | <alkisg> A second nbd-client call
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| 17:25 | Ah
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| 17:25 | Why?
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| 17:25 | <vagrantc> if the client uses swap, it will be exporting the same file
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> No
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| 17:25 | The client does: nbd-client -N swap /dev/nbd1
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| 17:25 | That's for swap
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| 17:25 | Then, nbd-client -N swap /dev/nbd2
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| 17:25 | That's for home
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| 17:25 | mkfs.ext4 /dev/nbd2 etc
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> yes, and the nbd-server will return the same file in both cases
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> The server then makes 2 different files
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| 17:26 | Hmmm
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| 17:26 | You're right
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> that would be nice, but it's not how it's set up currently
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> We should remove the nbd file immediately after creation
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| 17:27 | That way we wouldn't have such issues
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| 17:27 | ...but I don't think nbd-server supports that easily...
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| 17:27 | OK, another .conf then
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| 17:27 | You're right
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| 17:27 | <vagrantc> right
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| 17:28 | ideally, it'd create the file and then delete it, but hold the inode open until the nbd-server process was done
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| 17:28 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> which i think is how we had it back when we called from inetd, but that had other issues
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> But anyway with the separate .conf there are other advantages
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| 17:29 | E.g. one can have kiosk images with stock /home
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| 17:29 | That gets reset on logon
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> true enough
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| 17:29 | <alkisg> (the nbd-server cow trick)
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> oh yeah, that's supported now
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| 17:30 | has been for some while, i guess
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| 17:31 | * vagrantc will have to switch to defaulting to NBD for stretch until the overlay + NFS issues are sorted out | |
| 17:31 | <vagrantc> (stretch == jessie+1)
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| 17:32 | actually... it'd be nice to be able to try multiple different rootfs methods at boot
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> vagrantc: we already support easy switching between nfs, nbd, aoe, right?
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| 17:33 | * vagrantc might have to use a custom boot script again as the initramfs-tools scripts are getting more and more problematic | |
| 17:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yes, but you have to define them at the boot prompt
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| 17:33 | alkisg: what if it detected them at boot?
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> automatically?
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 17:34 | :)
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> See if the server supports nbd, otherwise use nfs, etc etc?
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> at least as an option, or a fallback
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> We'd have to use our own script then
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> right
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> Hmmm or rather... :D
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| 17:34 | How hacky do you think mount --bind /proc/cmdline is, for a few seconds? :D
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| 17:34 | Haha
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| 17:35 | <vagrantc> ??
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> Well
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| 17:35 | Suppose we have a script at init-premount
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| 17:35 | That initializes networking etc
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| 17:35 | <vagrantc> oh, i see where this is going
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> Then, it port scans the server and checks for nbd/nfs whatever
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| 17:35 | But, in order to avoid rewriting nbd/nfs support, it fools those scripts with /proc/cmdline
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| 17:35 | Then, at init-bottom, it unmounts /proc/cmdline
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| 17:36 | Messy, but it should be rather portable
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| 17:36 | <vagrantc> also, i need to get the loop mount support integrated into initramfs-tools
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| 17:36 | i think ubuntu's still carrying a patch for that, and it's silly that debian doesn't support it
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> I think the best thing there would be sequential mount=xxx directives
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| 17:37 | mount=nfs, then mount=loopback, then mount=nbd...
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| 17:37 | And one could do anything then... the nfs/loopback/nbd would be simple initramfs plugins
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| 17:40 | <vagrantc> well, predictibly, bind-mounting /proc/cmdline is a little sketchy :)
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| 17:41 | at least, it doesn't seem obviously a good thing :)
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| 17:41 | <alkisg> Essentially the "mount" cmdline parameters I'm talking about are like /etc/fstab lines, just not space-separated
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| 17:41 | If those mount parameters were supported, we wouldn't need such hacks
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| 17:41 | We would just have an ltsp mount plugin and an ltsp mount cmdline parameter
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| 17:42 | The problem is in the initramfs design, it doesn't provide appropriate hooks
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| 17:42 | If there are no plans to use dracut etc, maybe it'd be better to start a long conversation about it with Maks...
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| 17:43 | <vagrantc> the initramfs-tools folsk are hesitant to incorporate anything that doesn't emulate linux built-in bootprompt syntax ...
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> Sure, but when there are actual problems (like lack of hooks), they should provide some solutions, other than rewriting nfs/nbd/aoe/whatever scripts
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| 17:46 | Btw I'm playing with UEFI these days... I've succeeded doing a lot of things, even booting 32bit kernels under 64bit uefi, but I'm missing a few others, like proxydhcp support...
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| 17:51 | <alkisg> https://www.mail-archive.com/dnsmasq-discuss@lists.thekelleys.org.uk/msg09234.html
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| 17:52 | If we lose proxydhcp support in uefi, I'll start thinking of using dhcp over ipv6 for the initial pxe request, and then use ipv4 inside the initramfs :D
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| 17:53 | <vagrantc> wow!
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| 17:53 | * alkisg needs to go, brb | |
| 17:53 | <alkisg> bbl
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| 17:53 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 17:53 | alkisg is now known as work_alkisg | |
| 17:55 | <vsuojanen> I was looking Ubuntu wiki page UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp but it was not listed in the main page https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 17:57 | it is there but I was wondering why left out from the main list
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