IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 October 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:01 | <Ryan52> warren: I don't have the kvm stuff set up yet, but once I do I know I'm gonna be wondering this. how do I do switch between "SCREEN"s (as lts.conf calls it)
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| 00:02 | <warren> Ryan52: ctrl-alt-2 for kvm's debug console
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| 00:02 | Ryan52: sendkeys ctrl-alt-f2
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| 00:02 | ctrl-alt-1 to get back to the real console
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| 00:03 | <Ryan52> okay, thanks.
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| 00:41 | <Ryan52> warren: this may sound really stupid, but how do I get out of caps lock mode? :P
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| 00:41 | I don't even know how I got into it. I don't have a caps lock key. (it's a control key; I use emacs :))
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| 00:42 | nevermind, I figured it out.
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| 08:09 | rahuld has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:10 | <rahuld> hi
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| 08:11 | can someone point me to a link so that I can authenticate TC in Kiwi-LTSP against OPenLdap
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| 08:30 | <Gadi> warren: morning
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| 08:30 | <warren> morning
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| 08:30 | <Gadi> you must be feeling better - you've been very busy hacking
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| 08:30 | :)
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| 08:30 | <warren> The latest changes to Xsession in ldm really slow down the login
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| 08:31 | either that, or moving the setxkbmap stuff into a shell script did it...
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| 08:31 | not sure
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| 08:31 | <Gadi> easy thing to test
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| 08:33 | bjohnson has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:37 | <ogra> we should start working on integrating with hal instead of using setxkbmap
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| 08:37 | <warren> ogra: which would mean the old config options would no longer be valid?
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| 08:37 | <ogra> adapting the hal keymaping tools not so hard
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| 08:38 | no, they would be used as well
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| 08:38 | in fact they would override hal's defaults
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| 08:39 | <cyberorg> rahuld, if your server can authenticate against ldap, TCs will do that automatically
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| 08:39 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "hal keymap script" (23 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/82
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| 08:39 | <ogra> warren, have a look
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| 08:39 | <cyberorg> use yast2 ldap module to set up server to authenticate against ldap server
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| 08:39 | <bjohnson> Hi. I've got a KDE thin client running off a ltsp 4.2 server (Centos 5.2). Within the last couple of weeks Firefox starts to drag on a forum that I frequent. I usually have lots of tabs open but the slow computer responsiveness continues even when I close all other tabs. From trials, I think the problem might be from large graphic files (I've turned of flash). Both the server load (CPU and RAM) is low and running "free" on the client shows 45
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| 08:39 | 0MB of 500MB free. I wonder if the problem is LAN related but don't know what else to check.
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| 08:39 | <ogra> we just need to call that script before X starts up
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| 08:40 | <ogra> with soe distro specific adaption indeed
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| 08:40 | err, without i mean
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| 08:40 | . /etc/default/console-setup > /dev/null 2>&1 || exit 0
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| 08:40 | <bjohnson> I can't think of what might have schanged on the server that coincides with the slowdown (it seemed to work fine before). The same forum site on other machines (non-thin client) seems to be fine
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| 08:40 | <ogra> needs to be replaced with a check if the variables are set
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| 08:41 | (and needs to fall back to a set of defaults ... i.e. "us", "pc105")
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| 08:43 | warren, its dar easy and should be a lot faster than setxkbmap
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| 08:43 | *darn
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| 08:43 | <warren> did you test it?
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| 08:43 | <ogra> it is what ubuntu uses by default
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| 08:44 | and i adapted it to touchscreens with some modification
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| 08:44 | i know it will work, gimme a week and i'll have something committable
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| 08:45 | just needs some variable checks at the top
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| 08:45 | i know fedora uses the same
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| 08:46 | <generalsnus> ok, so i have installed edubuntu 8.10 in vmware, with 2 nic's 1 for thinclients and 1 for internet ... the thinclients work ok, but i am not getting any internet connection. ifconfig tells me that i have IP 192.168.0.254 on both nic's , how can i change one to dhcp? in the network manager it only says "ifupdown"
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| 08:47 | <ogra> generalsnus, look in /etc/network/interfaces
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| 08:49 | <generalsnus> pimary net interface: auto eth0
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| 09:03 | <jammcq> g'morning friends
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| 09:04 | <warren> hmm
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| 09:04 | with the latest ldm and ltsp, I have a weird problem where GNOME startup gets stuck part way
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| 09:04 | I see a background, but no window manager
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| 09:04 | it just gets stuck
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| 09:05 | <ogra> anything in ~/.xsession-errors ?
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| 09:05 | <johnny> warren, that happens to me sometimes
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| 09:05 | i have to pkill -u $USER
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| 09:05 | usually ends up being some stuck process or other
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| 09:06 | warren, this happens with the one released with hardy (so.. 6 months ago)
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| 09:06 | and the one before that :)
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| 09:07 | <warren> ogra: complaints about scim
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| 09:07 | <ogra> shouldnt anymore with intrepid, gnome got a lot more evil in killing everything with a sledgehammer this release
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| 09:07 | warren, hmm, try uninstaling scim and check if it works then
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| 09:09 | <johnny> ogra!
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| 09:09 | you survived!
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| 09:10 | <Armagnac> Hi all
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| 09:10 | can anybody show me how to allow read/write access to an NBD LTSP image
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| 09:10 | ???
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| 09:13 | <ogra> Armagnac, that wont work with squashfs images, they are readonly by design
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| 09:13 | <Armagnac> of course, i dont remember that fact
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| 09:14 | what can I do instead?
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| 09:15 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:15 | <ogra> there is an option to nbd-server that creates a writable overlay, but that will be gone after reboot of the client
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| 09:16 | <warren> hmm, it isn't scim
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| 09:16 | <ogra> another option would be to use ext3 images instaed of squashfs, but that requires tons of extra diskspace and you would have to hack up ltsp-update-image
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| 09:16 | <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, so I'm dressed up here at work with my gasmask for halloween, which is german. What does "Zivilschutzfilter" translate to? Civil something filter?
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| 09:16 | <ogra> warren, is debus running ?
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| 09:16 | *dbus
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| 09:17 | <warren> ogra: which dbus?
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| 09:17 | and where?
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| 09:17 | <ogra> sbalneav, "Civil Protection Filter"
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| 09:17 | sbalneav, doesnt really make sense as a word though
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| 09:17 | <sbalneav> So it's a police gas mask then
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| 09:17 | Not a military model
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| 09:17 | <ogra> is it really written like that ?
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| 09:17 | <sbalneav> Yup, all one work
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| 09:17 | word
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| 09:17 | <ogra> weird
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| 09:18 | <warren> oh boy. the budget for me to go to BTS is gone.
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| 09:18 | <ogra> but well, its german
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| 09:18 | <warren> i'm going anyway
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| 09:18 | <ogra> warren, the session dbus ... does it get started properly ?
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| 09:18 | <warren> what is the process name?
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| 09:19 | <ogra> dbus-launch i think
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| 09:19 | or dbus-daemon (should have --session somewhere) ... thats the child
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| 09:21 | <warren> session meaning on the terminal server side?
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| 09:22 | <ogra> right
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| 09:22 | gnome-settings-daemon needs it nowadays
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| 09:23 | <jammcq> warren: glad you are coming, without budget. i think i've got the big dinner covered, and the the workshop covered
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| 09:24 | <warren> i'll drive straight in one go, no need to stop part-way
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| 09:24 | <ogra> jammcq, make sure to have the big dinner the first day then, so he can put some fat on to live from it the next days :)
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| 09:24 | <Armagnac> ok, I have been reading about NBD
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| 09:25 | it is posible to change the ltsp-update-image script
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| 09:25 | to make ext2 o ext3 filesystems instead of squashfs???
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| 09:25 | <johnny> why exactly did you want to change it..
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| 09:26 | debian has a plugin to make ext3, you could find their changes compared to ubuntu and integrate them...
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| 09:26 | but i don't see why it matters, since you can't save the changes anyways
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| 09:26 | <Armagnac> which debian package? ltstp-server???
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| 09:26 | <Armagnac> why?
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| 09:27 | <ogra> ubuntus ltsp-server package installs the debian plugins alongside
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| 09:27 | you should just need to copy it
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| 09:27 | or even link it
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| 09:27 | <warren> hmm, KDE and XFCE are fine
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| 09:27 | <Armagnac> ok, what's the name of the plugin?
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| 09:27 | * ogra didnt know there was an ext3 debian plugin | |
| 09:27 | <warren> this is a GNOME specific problem that began between ltsp-5.1.26 and ltsp-5.1.30
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| 09:28 | <Armagnac> I will try to change the script from mksquashfs to mkext3fs
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| 09:28 | <ogra> ogra@osiris:~/Devel/branches/kourou/kourou$ apt-cache show ltsp-server|grep Version
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| 09:28 | Version: 5.1.29-0ubuntu3
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| 09:28 | warren, works here with .29
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| 09:29 | warren, might be related to the fact that you use a new gdm infrastructure
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| 09:29 | <warren> this is still F9
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| 09:30 | unchanged from prior ltsp
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| 09:30 | <ogra> weird
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| 09:31 | <johnny> Armagnac, why are you trying to do this??/
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| 09:31 | <Armagnac> look
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| 09:31 | i am using fat clients
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| 09:31 | <johnny> even if it's nbd with ext3, the changes won't be saved
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| 09:32 | afaict
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| 09:32 | <Armagnac> they are working fine
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| 09:32 | with NBD
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| 09:32 | but I need at least one client to have read-write access over some specific image
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| 09:32 | <johnny> even if they don't get saved?
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| 09:32 | <Armagnac> let say with other nbdport=2001
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| 09:32 | well
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| 09:33 | the problem is with alsa
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| 09:33 | <johnny> what problem is that?
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| 09:33 | <Armagnac> i am trying to compile latest alsa packages
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| 09:34 | I think that if I have a client with read/write access
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| 09:34 | <johnny> then you could do it on the server
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| 09:34 | in the chroot
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| 09:34 | <Armagnac> really??
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| 09:34 | <johnny> yes
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| 09:34 | and then ltsp-update-image
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| 09:34 | <Armagnac> didnt alsa checks for existing hardware and such
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| 09:34 | <johnny> no
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| 09:34 | <jammcq> warren: i'm gonna pick up a couple access points for BTS. you had some comments earlier about what a good setup would be. care to talk about it?
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| 09:34 | <Armagnac> modprobe the modules and such
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| 09:34 | <johnny> no
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| 09:34 | <ogra> not if you build a proper package
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| 09:34 | <johnny> it doesn't
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| 09:35 | <Armagnac> I see
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| 09:35 | I need to try it
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| 09:35 | <ogra> is that hardy or intrepid ?
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| 09:35 | <Armagnac> hardy still
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| 09:35 | <johnny> intrepid might have the fixes you need
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| 09:35 | <Armagnac> anything better for intrepid??
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| 09:35 | yes
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| 09:35 | <johnny> sure.. whatevers newest for alsa
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| 09:35 | <ogra> well, i'D suggest grabbing the source package of alsa from intrepid then
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| 09:35 | <johnny> since hardy :)
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| 09:35 | <Armagnac> how should I upgrade the chroot
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| 09:35 | <warren> jammcq: two WRT54GL's setup in WDS repeater mode should theoretically work
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| 09:35 | <ogra> and just roll that
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| 09:35 | <johnny> Armagnac, the same way you upgrade any apt distro
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| 09:36 | except one command to tell it to use teh chroot
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| 09:36 | <Armagnac> well bandwith is a problem here
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| 09:36 | <jammcq> ogra: btw, I loaded intrepid on my laptop last night. it gives me the same problems that hardy did. messed up screen sometimes and trackpoint mouse nub not able to move windows around
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| 09:36 | <warren> jammcq: although it was just barely enough range last time, so we might need one side with a directed antenna instead of the omni it comes with
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| 09:36 | <johnny> jammcq, broken hardware? :)
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| 09:36 | <jammcq> warren: I figured I'd get the longer antennas
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| 09:36 | <warren> longer doesn't help
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| 09:36 | <johnny> jammcq, might wanna try it in some other distro cd
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| 09:36 | <warren> you need a directed antenna
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| 09:36 | <jammcq> johnny: not likely, my daughter has the exact same model a same problems
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| 09:36 | <johnny> oh
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| 09:36 | <ogra> jammcq, intresting ... what graphics HW was that (note that both, amd and nvidia didnt make proper drivers in time for xorg 1.5)
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| 09:37 | <johnny> jammcq, since you have so many, you could give me one :)
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| 09:37 | <jammcq> intell everything
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| 09:37 | <Armagnac> just to make sure i understand
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| 09:37 | <johnny> hehe
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| 09:37 | <jammcq> and I'd expect the intel drivers to be some of the best
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| 09:37 | <Armagnac> can I chroot into the /opt/ltsp/fati386 folder
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| 09:37 | <johnny> warren, GIVE ME FEDORA 10!
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| 09:37 | <ogra> jammcq, hrm ... i have a couple if intel devices and no prob at all on them
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| 09:37 | <Armagnac> put a ubuntu 8.10 CD in the server
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| 09:37 | <johnny> Armagnac, yes, but i'd suggest mounting /proc first in there
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| 09:37 | <warren> johnny: you can have it for free
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| 09:37 | <Armagnac> of course
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| 09:37 | and sys also
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| 09:37 | <ogra> johnny, just not on CD :P
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| 09:38 | <jammcq> it's hard to even describe the problems i'm having. I should just fly out to UDS in mountainview in december and show you guys :)
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| 09:38 | <johnny> lol
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| 09:38 | <ogra> jammcq, good idea !!!
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| 09:38 | <Armagnac> whats the command to do that
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| 09:38 | <ogra> bring scotte along :)
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| 09:38 | *scottie even
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| 09:38 | <Armagnac> i know there is some CD scripts to do that
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| 09:38 | <jammcq> no biggie, prolly only cost 600 or $700
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| 09:38 | <warren> jammcq: how are things going there with the economy in MI?
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| 09:38 | <johnny> jammcq, or take the train out that way :)
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| 09:38 | <ogra> warren, houses are chep :P
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| 09:38 | *cheap
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| 09:39 | <jammcq> warren: well, my business is as busy as it could possbly be. we'll prolly be adding another programmer soon. everybody else around me is dying
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| 09:39 | <Armagnac> sh /cdrom/cdromupgrade
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| 09:39 | I see
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| 09:39 | <johnny> ogra, huh?
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| 09:39 | <Armagnac> I should test it in a diferent server not a production one
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| 09:39 | <ogra> johnny, ?
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| 09:39 | what ?
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| 09:39 | <warren> jammcq: any new industries moving in? I'd think somebody could use educated workers in a low cost of living area.
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| 09:39 | <johnny> you said "just not on cd"
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| 09:40 | <johnny> i didn't know what you meant
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| 09:40 | <ogra> johnny, yeah, no shipit for fedora ... they didnt ask us yet to distribute their CDs :)
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| 09:40 | <johnny> ogra, fedora 10 isn't out yet
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| 09:40 | <jammcq> warren: I wish. we're not at the bottom around here yet. I expect a big announcement about GM/Chrysler soon that should put another 25,000 people out in the street
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| 09:41 | <warren> Or China buys the entire state
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| 09:41 | "We had all this excess US dollars"
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| 09:41 | <ogra> yeah, in germany the car manufacturers stopped the production over christmas
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| 09:41 | <johnny> warren, i'm thinking about trying out fedora 10 on my laptop.. WHEN IT COMES OUT
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| 09:41 | <ogra> thats likely to coset a lot of jobs as well
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| 09:42 | <jammcq> at this point michigan owes more on the mortgage than it appraises for. China could buy Michigan, but we'd all have to add money to the deal :)
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| 09:42 | <warren> johnny: PR is due out real soon, that is a good starting point
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| 09:42 | johnny: almost identical to final
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| 09:42 | <johnny> how soon is real soon?
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| 09:42 | <warren> a week or so?
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| 09:42 | I dunno
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| 09:42 | <ogra> a wekk ?
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| 09:42 | final is in two iirc
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| 09:42 | <johnny> i want something that will let me stay up to date relatively easily..
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| 09:43 | to newer packages
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| 09:43 | that's why i like gentoo.. none of this release nonsense..
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| 09:43 | i just upgrade ..
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| 09:44 | <jammcq> wow, those wrt54g's are getting cheap. $45 each
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| 09:44 | * warren downgraded to ltsp-5.1.26 | |
| 09:44 | <jammcq> does it need to be a 'L' ?
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| 09:44 | <warren> jammcq: yes
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| 09:44 | jammcq: non L are crap
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| 09:44 | <johnny> jammcq, yes..
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| 09:44 | <Eeyore-Jr> L is for linux
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| 09:44 | <jammcq> ah, that's $49
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| 09:44 | <warren> really? where?
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| 09:44 | <Eeyore-Jr> then you put tomatoes on it
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| 09:44 | <johnny> OH NO!!!!
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| 09:44 | <warren> I paid $69 last time
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| 09:44 | <Eeyore-Jr> and it works great
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| 09:44 | <jammcq> $49.99 on amazon
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| 09:44 | <warren> crap
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| 09:44 | it is something in ltsp-client
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| 09:44 | <Eeyore-Jr> i get mine for free :)
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| 09:45 | <jammcq> and you are syaing the 'Linksys High Gain Antenna Kit' won't help?
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| 09:45 | <warren> jammcq: URL?
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| 09:45 | jammcq: are we leaving this at the motel?
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| 09:45 | <|Paradox|> http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Launches+Windows+Azure+New+Free+OS/article13301.htm <----looks like M$ is taking LTSP a step further :)
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| 09:45 | <jammcq> http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_CASupport_C2&childpagename=US%2FLayout&cid=1169671130843&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper&lid=JavaScript-1169671130843
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| 09:46 | I wasn't planning on leaving them
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| 09:46 | <johnny> he was planning on giving them to me :)
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| 09:46 | * johnny hypnotizes jammcq | |
| 09:47 | <jammcq> whatever I get, I pretty much need to order it today
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| 09:47 | <warren> jammcq: I don't know about this antenna
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| 09:47 | <jammcq> I see "high gain" and I think "longer range than normal"
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| 09:47 | where would I find a directional antenna?
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| 09:48 | <warren> pringles can and wire
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| 09:48 | let me ask my radio friend
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| 09:48 | hold
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| 09:49 | <ogra> jammcq, look for yagi
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| 09:49 | you need two of them though
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| 09:49 | <warren> oh?
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| 09:49 | why two?
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| 09:49 | <ogra> they center on a beam
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| 09:50 | the beams shoud set up to match each other
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| 09:50 | *should be
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| 09:50 | that gets you a proper directional connection up to 500m
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| 09:50 | <jammcq> ok, so 2 of these routers will get IP into the workshop. what do we do with it once it's in the workshop?
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| 09:50 | <warren> jammcq: you unplug one of the two antennas, point directional at each other, and turn off diversity mode
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| 09:50 | <jammcq> seems like we need another AP
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| 09:51 | <warren> jammcq: i'll bring one of mine for the workshop
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| 09:51 | <jammcq> point WHAT directional at each other?
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| 09:51 | one of the existing antennas?
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| 09:51 | <ogra> you have two APs
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| 09:51 | <warren> Four AP's...
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| 09:51 | <ogra> each has one of the yagis
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| 09:51 | <jammcq> ok, where do I get the Yagi's?
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| 09:51 | that's the question
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| 09:51 | <warren> His existing one -> WIRE -> AP pointing at workshop -> WIRELESS -> AP pointing at office -> WIRE -> AP for workshop
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| 09:51 | <ogra> you point the yagis at each other (bring a laserpointer, that helps with adjusting)
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| 09:52 | right, the yagis make up the "WIRELESS" part in the above scheme
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| 09:52 | <warren> It *MIGHT* work without directional antenna, then we don't need the fourth AP
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| 09:52 | <jammcq> and... I'm working with a very limited budget here
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| 09:52 | <warren> but last year the signal was right at the edge
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| 09:53 | <ogra> well, then build the yagis your own :)
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| 09:53 | <jammcq> oh that's right, my time isn't worth anything
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| 09:53 | <warren> jammcq: I can bring two WRT54GL's if they're temporary
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| 09:53 | <ogra> the pringles setup is essentially a cheapo yagi
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| 09:54 | <warren> http://www.netscum.com/~clapp/wireless.html
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| 09:54 | <jammcq> at $50/ea, I don't mind buying a pair, but if we get into fancy antenna's and such, i'm worried the price will go up quite a bit
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| 09:54 | <ogra> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=yagi+antenna&um=1&cid=12698771761281978610&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&resnum=4&ct=result#ps-sellers
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| 09:54 | <jammcq> heh
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| 09:54 | <ogra> $194 each here
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| 09:54 | <jammcq> yeah, 2 of those plus the routers, we're at $500 and I haven't paid for shipping yet
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| 09:55 | <warren> we don't want to run a CAT5e across the telephone pole?
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| 09:55 | <johnny> regex peoplez
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| 09:55 | what does this mean to you?
| |
| 09:55 | /([^.]+)$
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| 09:55 | i'm confused about the part in the []
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| 09:55 | <jammcq> 1 or more NOT dot characters at the end of the line
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| 09:56 | <johnny> hmm.. really.. you don't have to escape the . ?
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| 09:56 | <jammcq> ^ inside [] means NOT the next char
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| 09:56 | no escaping when inside the []
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| 09:56 | <johnny> aha..
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| 09:56 | sweet
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| 09:56 | <ogra> HAHA
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| 09:56 | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2006/08/diy_usb_wifi_antenna_made_from.html
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| 09:56 | <warren> but . means any character
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| 09:56 | <johnny> warren, thus the question :)
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| 09:56 | <ogra> try that one, cheap and quikly put together
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| 09:56 | <warren> [^.] means not any character?
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| 09:56 | <johnny> warren, jammcq says no escaping in there :)
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| 09:57 | <jammcq> normally '.' means any character, except when inside the []
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| 09:57 | ogra: that's awesome. you can read your email and cook your dinner with the same piece of hardware
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| 09:57 | <ogra> lol
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| 09:58 | <warren> jammcq: I have three WRT54GL's, so I might as well bring them if they are temporary
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| 09:58 | <ogra> as long as its pasta
| |
| 09:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> in Fedora, does adding "get-lease-hostnames true;" to dhcpd.conf do anything?
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| 09:58 | <warren> jammcq: although I'm wondering if it is really a bad idea to just run CAT5e across the telephone pole
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| 09:58 | <jammcq> warren: if you wanna bring them, that makes it much easier on me. then I don't have to worry about what to tell the customs folks as I enter canada
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| 09:58 | <warren> jammcq: k, will do
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| 09:58 | <jammcq> warren: if there's lightening anywhere in the area, then it's a REALLY bad idea
| |
| 09:59 | * jammcq speaks from past experience on this | |
| 09:59 | <Gadi> yeah - and don't lick anything
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| 09:59 | <warren> too bad those fiber to ethernet adapters are so expensive
| |
| 09:59 | <jammcq> yeah, fiber would be awesome
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| 09:59 | i've always heard fiber is good for the diet
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| 09:59 | <johnny> warren, get fios.. they give you free adaptor :)
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| 09:59 | hehe
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| 09:59 | <ogra> Gadi, why are you alsways taking out all the excitement
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| 09:59 | :P
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> sorry - lick away
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| 09:59 | <johnny> lol
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| 09:59 | <ogra> heh
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| 10:00 | otavio has quit IRC | |
| 10:00 | * ogra is sooo missing to be there | |
| 10:00 | <jammcq> ogra: we are SOooo gonna miss having you there
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| 10:00 | <Gadi> ogra: we'll do skype as a localapp and talk
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| 10:00 | ;)
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| 10:00 | <ogra> sniff
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| 10:00 | <Q-FUNK> localtalk
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| 10:00 | <ogra> ekiga ftw
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| 10:00 | <johnny> and then Q-FUNK shows up :(
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| 10:00 | <warren> ogra isn't coming?
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| 10:01 | <johnny> hehe
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| 10:01 | <ogra> warren, nope, some private issues that dont let me go
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| 10:01 | <Q-FUNK> johnny: hm?
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| 10:01 | <johnny> Q-FUNK, not serious.. :)
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| 10:01 | <jammcq> ogra: just don't forget about Brazil next June
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| 10:02 | <ogra> yeah, i surely wont
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| 10:02 | <warren> Brazil is not looking likely =(
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| 10:03 | for me
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| 10:03 | <jammcq> warren: think positive
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| 10:03 | <johnny> i'll kidnap warren
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| 10:03 | err devnap
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| 10:03 | <jammcq> having a fedora rep at FISL-10 would be very good
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| 10:03 | <Gadi> jammcq: sounds like he's not positive :P
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| 10:03 | <warren> that reminds me, time to renew passport
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| 10:03 | <johnny> yeah.. me too..
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| 10:03 | <warren> my passport photo is me at 17 years old
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| 10:03 | <johnny> lol
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| 10:03 | you probably look the same
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| 10:04 | <Gadi> warren: just because you're 18 now... ;)
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| 10:04 | <ogra> 18 1/2 !
| |
| 10:04 | <warren> dog years
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| 10:04 | <jammcq> how come nobody ever talks about Cat years?
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| 10:05 | <johnny> cuz cats are the devil
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| 10:05 | <ogra> they have seven lifes anyway
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| 10:05 | <johnny> 9 ogra
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| 10:05 | 9
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| 10:05 | <jammcq> ogra's talking metric
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| 10:05 | <ogra> heh
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| 10:05 | <johnny> metric lives?
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| 10:05 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 10:05 | <jammcq> yeah, multiply by 9, divide by 5, add 32
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| 10:17 | <sbalneav> Mmmm
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| 10:17 | beer
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| 10:21 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
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| 10:24 | <wpgmb> I have one winxp system on the ltsp client side, It's getting an ip via DHCP from the LTSP server, but it cannot get out to the 'net. "Regular" ltsp clients have no problem. What do I need to change?
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| 10:24 | Q-FUNK has quit IRC | |
| 10:27 | <sbalneav> wpgmb: You've still got the linksys or dlink router?
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| 10:27 | As I explained before, here's your problem:
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| 10:28 | <XP box and terminals> -> <switch> -> <ltsp server> -> <router> -> <internet>
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| 10:28 | <wpgmb> actually: Internet > IPCop firewall > LTSP server > clients, one being a winxp box that's not a real client
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| 10:28 | yes, forgot the switch.
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| 10:29 | <sbalneav> the TERMINALS get out because they've got their processes running on the LTSP server, which is connected to the firewall.
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| 10:29 | So, like I said before you either need to:
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| 10:29 | set up routing/forwarding/firewalling on the linux box (complicated)
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| 10:29 | OR
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| 10:29 | <wpgmb> I understand that. Btw - the older issue has been resolved, this time, my kids want to be able to use ipod stuff from a winbox
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| 10:30 | CAN-o-SPAM has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:30 | <sbalneav> simply move the XP box on the "internet" side of the LTSP server.
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| 10:30 | i.e.
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| 10:30 | <ipcop> -> <hub/switch> -> <ltsp server>
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| 10:31 | <warren> uh... doesn't he only need iptables NAT rules on the LTSP server?
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| 10:31 | <sbalneav> +
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| 10:31 | -> xp box
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| 10:31 | warren: sure.
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| 10:31 | <wpgmb> physically impossible without major recabling. Three systems (2 ltsp clients, 1 winxp) plug into a switch on the 2nd floor of my house, and from there one line goes down to a another switch.
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| 10:31 | <sbalneav> What's easier? Setting up IP nat rules, or moving a network connectio to a different hub? :)
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| 10:32 | <wpgmb> see above...
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| 10:32 | <sbalneav> Split the cable.
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| 10:33 | <wpgmb> like, how?
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| 10:33 | <sbalneav> How's the cable run? Does it have punchdowns at both ends, or just a cable hanging out of the wall with an end on it?
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| 10:34 | <wpgmb> 2nd flr house: 2 ltsp clients, 1 winxp box > switch in closet on 2nd flr. > cable to switch in basement > cable to ltsp box
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| 10:34 | <warren> dude
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| 10:34 | the NAT rules are trivial
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE
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| 10:34 | echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
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| 10:34 | :)
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| 10:35 | <wpgmb> alkisg: that won't foobar ltsp clients access to the 'net?
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| 10:35 | <alkisg> Yes, they
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| 10:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> I'm having problems getting hostnames to show up on clients in Fedora
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| 10:36 | <alkisg> 'll be able to access the net throught NAT
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| 10:36 | More here: http://billauer.co.il/ipmasq-html.html
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| 10:36 | <ogra> well, ubuntu uses ufw nowadays ... if thats ubuntu, use that instead
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| 10:36 | <wpgmb> ogra: yes, Ubuntu 8.04 ltsp server
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| 10:36 | <ogra> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/firewall.html
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| 10:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> I have get-lease-hostnames true; in the dhcpd.conf... am I missing something?
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| 10:37 | <sbalneav> The intenet isn't connected to the ltsp box directly, guys, it's already going through another firewall.
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| 10:39 | <wpgmb> sbalneav is correct
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| 10:39 | <warren> sbalneav: two layers of NAT works just fine for most things
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| 10:39 | I've used 3 layers of NAT for a few months once
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| 10:40 | it was fine except when one of the wireless repeaters would die
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> Breaks on a lot of things too.
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| 10:40 | <warren> That's why I have 3 WRT54GL's... I was avoiding paying cable bills for a few months...
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| 10:40 | <wpgmb> I seem to have read somewhere ufw isn't all that great, and not very stable?
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> Sources, please.
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| 10:40 | <ogra> wpgmb, its the default FW software since hardy and developed by our security team ...
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| 10:41 | in intrepid is has a gui as well ...
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| 10:41 | <wpgmb> ogra: I'll look into it in more detail later. thx for the link
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| 10:41 | <sbalneav> All it is is just a frontend to iptables.
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| 10:42 | Me, personally, I'd just split the line. But whatever.
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| 10:42 | <ogra> its limited in its function on purpose though ... if you want it massively powerful, go with iptables ... for 90% of the usecases it will be fine though
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| 10:42 | <wpgmb> sbalneav: I like simple, but I don't really see how I can "split" the line
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| 10:44 | anyway - g2g, took the day off to get the yard ready for tonight.... better get to it, before I don't get to share in the loot tonight :-D
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| 10:45 | wpgmb has left #ltsp | |
| 10:45 | <sbalneav> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-your-own-Ethernet-"splitter"/
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| 10:45 | Cripes, can't people hang around for two seconds?!
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 10:46 | <Appiah> :)
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| 10:46 | <sbalneav> I was going to tell him you can BUY PRE MADE SPLITTERS here in town at Active Electronics for like $15
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| 10:47 | Whatever.
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| 10:48 | <alkisg> Ugh... gnome needs a better gpaint-like program... I hate to install all the kde*stuff just to get the (excellent) kolourpaint for the students... :(
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> When he pops in here 2 weeks from now asking the same question again (like he has for the past couple of months) I ain't bothering to answer.
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| 10:48 | <ogra> alkisg, get touchscreens, use xournal :P
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> ogra, I'll be very glad if I can convince the principal to give me money for structured cabling (is that how it's called?) this year... all the ftp cables are on the floor!!!
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| 10:50 | <ogra> get a security guy to review that and let *him* convince the principal
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| 10:58 | <Appiah> or just get another guy to pose as a security guy
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| 10:58 | costs less
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| 10:58 | <alkisg> :)
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| 10:58 | Anyway... another thing: Wouldn't it be better if all the lts.conf directives were included (but commented out) in the default lts.conf, so that the ltsp admins just un-comment the ones they want? Something like http://pyramid.metrix.net/svn/Pyramid/dist/etc/dnsmasq.conf.example for dnsmasq? I can help on that if you like (gathering all directives from source etc), but my English is not so good for the comments...
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| 10:59 | <Appiah> it should alkisg
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| 10:59 | I was thinking the same
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| 10:59 | or a lts.conf.example included
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| 10:59 | <alkisg> ...and as a side effect, we would know which directives are supported in each version ('cause they change... :))
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| 11:01 | <sbalneav> Appiah: Care to code one up?
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| 11:02 | I'm sure if you did it, we'd include it :)
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| 11:02 | twinprism has quit IRC | |
| 11:04 | <johnny> alkisg, i suggested linking to specific bzr revisions of that file
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| 11:04 | per release
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| 11:06 | <alkisg> johnny that would be great... But when the programmers change some directive, will they take the time to update lts.conf.example? I know that many programmers don't like documentation... :)
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| 11:06 | <johnny> that's the point
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| 11:06 | link directly to the lts-parameters.txt
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| 11:06 | which is what people are supposed to update when they add new directives
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| 11:07 | instead of having a seperate copy
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| 11:07 | <johnny> we already do have lts.conf.example.. it's called lts-parameters.txt :)
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| 11:07 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:08 | <johnny> and in intrepid and other distro releases since hardy, lts-parameters is now in the server, and not in the ltsp chroot
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| 11:08 | so it is easier to find
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| 11:08 | <alkisg> Wow... I hadn't see that
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| 11:09 | <johnny> it's existed for a long time
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| 11:09 | there was a period where it was not accurate tho
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| 11:09 | but folks are much better at updating it now :)
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| 11:09 | it is not accurate in hardy, that is for sure
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| 11:10 | but will be for intrepid
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| 11:10 | <alkisg> I think it's ok on intrepid
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| 11:10 | <johnny> yes
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| 11:10 | <alkisg> E.g. I was trying LDM_ALLOW_GUEST for some time until I found out about LDM_GUESTLOGIN...
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| 11:10 | <sbalneav> One of the things I want to get fixed in the documentation is to import lts-parameters into the doco.
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| 11:11 | at the hackfest, I'm going to spend some time whipping that into some finalized, organized shape. I'd love for us to have an ltsp-server-docs package that could be installed.
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| 11:13 | elisboa_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:13 | <Gadi> please to be updating the agenda on bts2008 wiki page
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| 11:14 | <alkisg> There are some parameters missing from lts-parameters.txt though... E.g. LDM_SERVER, LDM_LANGUAGE, LDM_SESSION etc...
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| 11:19 | <johnny> sbalneav, DONT IMPORT IT
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| 11:19 | link it!
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| 11:19 | link the raw bzr file
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| 11:20 | that way you can link per distro release
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| 11:20 | since debian packages supported different parameters than ubuntu, than fedora, than gentoo
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| 11:20 | etc
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| 11:23 | <vagrantc> there are different supported lts.conf parameters?
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| 11:23 | ugh.
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| 11:23 | <johnny> vagrantc, .. obviously..
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| 11:23 | hardy didn't have the same parameters that i or fedora had, since we were alot newer
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| 11:23 | <vagrantc> that seems like a disaster.
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| 11:23 | oh, i see.
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| 11:23 | <johnny> and you were putting out newer packages for debian
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| 11:24 | <vagrantc> it's not so much they have different parameters, as there are different versions available
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| 11:24 | which have different parameters
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| 11:24 | <johnny> yes
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| 11:24 | Stonekeeper has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:24 | <johnny> like the timeout thing.. didn't exist for hardy. which alot of people will still be running
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| 11:24 | and the guest thing changed
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| 11:25 | etc
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| 11:25 | <vagrantc> yes/
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| 11:25 | <Stonekeeper> hi. I've been searching in vain to find out why my ldap-authed users, when pressing the logout button, have to wait around 60s for the logout panel to show (gnome). Anyone seen this? Local users are instant.
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| 11:26 | <Appiah> sbalneav: not a bad idea
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| 11:27 | I could actully make an lts.conf.example , and show it and if everyone likes it
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| 11:27 | we can submit it?
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| 11:27 | <ogra> well, that was the intention behind the doc team :)
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| 11:27 | <Appiah> how do you submit stuff anyways?
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| 11:27 | <ogra> Appiah, joun the doc tem
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| 11:27 | *team
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| 11:27 | <Appiah> I just recently started coming here
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| 11:27 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters
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| 11:29 | <Appiah> I'll look into it
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| 11:29 | <johnny> Appiah, we don't need it.?
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| 11:29 | lts-parameters is the example ?
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| 11:29 | <warren> ogra: hm, the problem is somewhere in ltsp-client
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| 11:29 | <Appiah> johnny: there is one already?
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| 11:29 | <johnny> yes
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| 11:29 | <warren> changes between 5.1.26 and 5.1.30
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| 11:29 | <Appiah> where is the file located johnny ?
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| 11:29 | <johnny> it's in the chroot in hardy, but now is in the server on intrepid, and any releases per distro
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| 11:29 | since that time period
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| 11:29 | <warren> KDE and XFCE have no problem, only GNOME
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| 11:29 | <ogra> warren, well, all i can say i dont see issues in intrepid
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| 11:29 | <Appiah> johnny: oh I c
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| 11:30 | no need for me to do it then!
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| 11:30 | <alkisg> johnny, an lts.conf.example like dnsmasq.conf.example would be much better in my opinion (having the lts.conf format, not a tabular one, and also more comments for each parameter)
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| 11:30 | <Appiah> I'll bet I find something else to contribute with
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| 11:30 | <johnny> alkisg, just change that one
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| 11:30 | <ogra> Appiah, well, see what sbalneav said above, he'd like to have it properly in the docs :)
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| 11:30 | <johnny> use comment characters
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| 11:30 | <ogra> so you could help with that
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| 11:30 | <Appiah> oh sorry I was away and didnt read up
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| 11:31 | <johnny> alkisg, most things should work out of the box, so if people start copying the example file.. i think there will be trouble
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| 11:31 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:31 | <alkisg> johnny, but if all parameters are commented out, where's the trouble?
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| 11:31 | <ogra> lts.conf should be a last resort only to override the autodeection
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| 11:31 | <Appiah> and that should say in the lts.conf.example (if there should be one)
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| 11:31 | <ogra> there is a reason we dont even have it existing by default :)
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| 11:32 | it does
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| 11:32 | <johnny> alkisg, also.. i don't even support all the parameters
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| 11:32 | like any of the xorg ones
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| 11:32 | Stonekeeper has left #ltsp | |
| 11:32 | <alkisg> x failing, load balancing, guest logins with specific usernames/passwords... There are many occations where I needed to modify it
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| 11:32 | <ogra> alkisg, yes, but you shouldnt use/need it to just get up the clients
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| 11:33 | <Appiah> wait does ltsp support load balacing yet?
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| 11:33 | <ogra> if X is failing thats a bug in X that needs fixage
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| 11:33 | <johnny> alkisg, none of the x parameters except X_CONF will work for me
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| 11:33 | <ogra> i'm merely upset about people just suggesting to use lts.conf and not to file a bug against the X server
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> ogra, I'm not saying it should go to /var/lib/tftpboot/..., but if it was *somewhere* (even on a wiki), I'd like it to be in an lts.conf format, not in tabular format
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| 11:34 | johnny, yeah, it should be distro specific...
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| 11:37 | (or each parameter should be followed by a "Supported in: Debian >= xxx, Ubuntu >= xxx, Fedora >= xxx" etc line)
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| 11:38 | <sbalneav> ogra: Heh, I'm not even a member of the "docwriters-team", just sent in an application
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| 11:38 | <ogra> sbalneav, you are
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| 11:38 | ltsp-upstream is a member
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| 11:39 | <sbalneav> Ah, guess I'm an "indirect" member.
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| 11:39 | <ogra> right
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| 11:39 | <alkisg> ogra, and all the members have access to a specific wiki or something?
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| 11:40 | <ogra> warren, all i see beyond your own fedora commits that could affect you are commits 899 and 900
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| 11:40 | alkisg, no, the the bzr tree holding the upstream documentation
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| 11:40 | team membership is the ACL for the tree
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| 11:41 | <Appiah> is the ltsp teams listed anywhere?
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| 11:41 | <alkisg> I see... ty
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| 11:41 | <ogra> Appiah, there are only two
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| 11:41 | <Appiah> ltsp and ltsp-docs ?
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| 11:41 | <ogra> ltsp-upstream and ltsp-docwriters
| |
| 11:41 | <Appiah> https://launchpad.net/ltsp is this upstream?
| |
| 11:42 | <ogra> thats the upstream product
| |
| 11:42 | <warren> what is the difference between LTSP_COMMAND and LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT?
| |
| 11:42 | <ogra> the team is https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/
| |
| 11:42 | the documentation team is https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters
| |
| 11:43 | warren, ask vagrantc, his commit
| |
| 11:43 | <warren> vagrantc: ^^
| |
| 11:44 | otavio has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:45 | <ogra> Appiah, while we try to keep the ltsp-upstream team small so there is a contolling person for each distro in place that channels code commits, ltsp-docwriters is open for everyone who wants to help out
| |
| 11:46 | F-GT has quit IRC | |
| 11:46 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:46 | <Appiah> I c
| |
| 11:47 | <vagrantc> warren: LTSP_COMMAND is the actual command, and LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT=true will pause the ltsp-localappsd rather than continue to wait for more LTSP_COMMAND values ... i implemented it to run the whole session as a localapp.
| |
| 11:47 | <warren> oh
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| 11:47 | <ogra> sbalneav, i'm evil .... rejected :)
| |
| 11:47 | <Appiah> I'll jump on ltsp-docwriters someday then
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| 11:47 | <warren> vagrantc: that seems like a really roundabout way to run the entire session as localapp
| |
| 11:48 | <vagrantc> warren: maybe so, but it works.
| |
| 11:48 | warren: keeps the authentication simple
| |
| 11:48 | <ogra> sbalneav, btw, what made you think you are no team member, you committed to the branch for at least the last month regulary :)
| |
| 11:50 | <sbalneav> When I go to the page, it says I'm not a member :)
| |
| 11:50 | spectra has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:50 | <ogra> oh, and i see you didnt commit directly but through nubae
| |
| 11:51 | sbalneav, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk does that offer you a push location ?
| |
| 11:51 | <sbalneav> I'm always nervous about updating to any trunk. I screwed you guys up one time, now I'm gunshy
| |
| 11:51 | <ogra> pfft
| |
| 11:51 | nothing we cant roll back
| |
| 11:52 | <sbalneav> No, no push location
| |
| 11:52 | wait
| |
| 11:52 | <ogra> sbalneav, i drove vagrantc and warren insane already with my broken tagging ... and my head still stits on my sholders
| |
| 11:52 | <sbalneav> yes, duh
| |
| 11:52 | <ogra> ah :)
| |
| 11:52 | so all fine then
| |
| 11:52 | <vagrantc> messing with revision history is kind of annoying ... but if you set append_revisions_only=true in ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf it should prevent that from happening.
| |
| 11:53 | <sbalneav> sbalneav@feniks:~$ cat ~/.bazaar/bazaar.conf
| |
| 11:53 | email=Scott Balneaves <sbalneav@ltsp.org>
| |
| 11:53 | append_revisions_only = True
| |
| 11:53 | launchpad_username = sbalneav
| |
| 11:53 | I'm a good little doobee
| |
| 11:54 | <ogra> better than me :)
| |
| 11:54 | so dont be a sissy ;)
| |
| 11:55 | the whole point of revision control is that you can roll back :)
| |
| 11:59 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:05 | <warren> you can always commit to your own tree
| |
| 12:05 | look at it
| |
| 12:05 | before you push
| |
| 12:06 | K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:15 | <vagrantc> warren: the LTSP_COMMAND_WAIT thing is a bit roundabout, but the current implementation immediately moves on to look for more LTSP_COMMAND's to execute ... i couldn't figure out any simpler way to implement it.
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| 12:15 | K_O-Gnom has quit IRC | |
| 12:15 | <warren> vagrantc: something between 5.1.26 and 5.1.30 is causing trouble for GNOME here...
| |
| 12:16 | login works, but GNOME startup gets stuck before the window manager
| |
| 12:16 | <vagrantc> hm.
| |
| 12:16 | <warren> if I downgrade to ltsp-client-5.1.26 the problem goes away
| |
| 12:18 | <vagrantc> warren: the only one that you didn't commit specifically for fedora that would likely affect you is 900: the module-suspend-on-idle pulseaudio thing ...
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| 12:21 | DonSilver has joined #ltsp | |
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| 12:29 | <warren> vagrantc: yikes
| |
| 12:30 | vagrantc: the "Add module-suspend-on-idle to the list of PulseAudio modules (so running audacity as localapp works)" broke it
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| 12:31 | stgraber: ogra: module-suspend-on-idle broke it
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| 12:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> !pastebot
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| 12:32 | <ltspbot`> _UsUrPeR_: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 12:33 | <warren> stgraber: ogra: vagrantc: On F9 it prevents GNOME session from starting. On F19 GNOME session starts, but pulseaudio daemon did not successfully run
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| 12:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> could someone take a look at the following files and tell me what I am missing? I am having trouble assigning hostnames to clients, and I believe everything has been entered correctly
| |
| 12:34 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "/etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf" (62 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/83
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| 12:35 | "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "/etc/hosts" (258 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/84
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| 12:36 | <Lns> _UsUrPeR_: I'm not sure what the issue is, but I'm assuming you know your IP addresses are all public addys, right?
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| 12:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> yeah, it's a customer's setup...
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| 12:41 | * Lns has always wondered what, in LTSP, besides actually assigning static DHCP leases to the clients, causes the clients to *always* get the same IP after putting entries in /etc/hosts... | |
| 12:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> I thought it was the server caching the mac address.
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| 12:45 | <vagrantc> warren: well, glad i found it :)
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| 12:45 | <warren> vagrantc: what is the permission on your /dev/snd/* ?
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| 12:45 | <vagrantc> sounds like a big price to pay for audacity as a localapp
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| 12:45 | <Lns> _UsUrPeR_: is the server caching of MAC addresses causing them to act like static leases, or just a normal dhcp server that will give the same one if it found it before and another station hadn't taken it up yet?
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| 12:46 | <vagrantc> warren: read-write for root and group audio
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| 12:46 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 12:46 | <ogra> warren, rw for group audio
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| 12:46 | <warren> no group audio here..
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| 12:47 | <ogra> warren, likely the same for debian
| |
| 12:47 | <warren> so any logged in user is part of group audio?
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| 12:47 | <ogra> and audio is the the default groups of adduser
| |
| 12:47 | right
| |
| 12:47 | <vagrantc> on debian, there aren't really any default groups
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| 12:47 | <warren> I think I will need to use setfacl to add the logged in user to have rw permission
| |
| 12:48 | here's what's going on
| |
| 12:48 | our /dev/snd/* are root root crw-rw----
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| 12:48 | pulseaudio run as root is able to connect ONCE to the devices, then drops permissions
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| 12:49 | <ogra> well, it should run permanently
| |
| 12:49 | oh
| |
| 12:49 | indeed
| |
| 12:49 | heh
| |
| 12:49 | <warren> -L module-suspend-on-idle causes it to disconnect
| |
| 12:49 | so it cannot reconnect
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| 12:49 | <ogra> yeah
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| 12:49 | <warren> thus it crashes
| |
| 12:49 | I can fix this with facl's
| |
| 12:49 | but....
| |
| 12:49 | <ogra> i have no objection if you drop that again, but ask stgraber, he surely had a reason to add it
| |
| 12:49 | <warren> yes
| |
| 12:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> lns: I am not for sure on either, but it seems like the first one is most probable. For instance, at my college on an open wireless network, I have gotten the same IP address for almost a week and a half. It's a higher IP address in the range (xxx.xxx.xxx.223) and I assume it's because the server has cached my MAC and has not needed to give that IP to someone else due to it's normally low amount of DHCP leases.
| |
| 12:50 | <warren> he added it as an ugly hack for audacity
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| 12:50 | he knew it was a hack
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| 12:50 | even without the permission issue
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| 12:50 | <ogra> oh, for localapp ?
| |
| 12:50 | <warren> i dislike it
| |
| 12:50 | yes
| |
| 12:50 | because
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| 12:50 | if an app talks to the device directly, then pulseaudio cannot reconnect
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| 12:50 | <ogra> cant audacity use esd mode ?
| |
| 12:50 | <warren> and you have the same problem
| |
| 12:50 | no
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| 12:50 | audacity is broken
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| 12:50 | <ogra> hrm
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| 12:50 | yeah, definately
| |
| 12:51 | well, the alsa oss compat modules should solve that
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| 12:51 | <warren> nope...
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| 12:51 | audacity doesn't workk through that
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| 12:51 | <ogra> as long as your card is dmix capable at leat
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| 12:51 | <Lns> warren: ogra: remember debian/ubu doesn't have acl support by default, so setfacl won't be portable.. (i'm probably missing part of the conversation thou)
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| 12:51 | <stgraber> warren: ah, /dev/snd/* is owned by root.audio and the users are usually in the audio group, so it works fine in Ubuntu
| |
| 12:52 | <ogra> Lns, yeah, thats why i said revert it
| |
| 12:52 | <Lns> ah ok
| |
| 12:52 | <stgraber> ogra: audacity is really broken, the right fix would be to add pulseaudio support in portaudio but that's not something I can do myself :)
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| 12:52 | <warren> stgraber: ignoring hte permission issue, I'm disliking -L module-suspend-on-idle because you are working around a buggy application
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| 12:52 | <ogra> stgraber, right, and we have it with the module in intrepid, so i dont object if it gets reverted upstream
| |
| 12:52 | <stgraber> warren: yeah, I know that and I'm happy to use any other way to make audacity and other buggy applications (skype ?) to work as localapp
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| 12:53 | <warren> skype really doesn't work?
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| 12:53 | <ogra> we have 6 months to annoy audacity upstream to fix it once and for all
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| 12:53 | <warren> I use skype all the time on F9 with pulseaudio never letting go of the sound device
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| 12:53 | <ogra> stgraber, but we're unlikely to use a new upstream before jaunty
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| 12:53 | so if warren rolls it back now that wont do any harm
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| 12:54 | we just need to make sure to not forget about solving it before jaunty goes final ;)
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| 12:54 | warren, skype can use alsa if alsa can provide dmix
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| 12:54 | its HW dependant
| |
| 12:54 | if the card doesnt do dmix it wont work
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| 12:55 | <warren> no
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| 12:55 | I mean, yes you are right
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| 12:55 | but our alsa turned off dmix
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| 12:55 | I'm using skype through alsa-plugins-pulseaudio
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| 12:55 | <ogra> in ubuntu we dropped dmix completely
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| 12:55 | <vagrantc> warren: so removing g_free(host_list); from ldm fixed the problem, or just worked around it? will that be a memory leak or some such?
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| 12:55 | <ogra> ah, good to know
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| 12:55 | <warren> vagrantc: it might leak, but a few lines later is exit(0)
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| 12:56 | vagrantc: Ryan52 said he'll analyze further and do a proper fix if necessary
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| 12:56 | <ogra> what is host_list ?
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| 12:56 | <vagrantc> warren: so that should clean it up after the exit?
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| 12:56 | <warren> vagrantc: yes
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| 12:56 | <ogra> a g_string ?
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| 12:56 | <vagrantc> ogra: think so ...
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| 12:56 | <ogra> glib handles some vars automatically
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| 12:56 | i think strings are among them
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| 12:56 | so you shouldnt need to free it explicitly
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| 12:56 | <warren> So Debian and Ubuntu don't have getfacl/setfacl utilities?
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| 12:57 | <ogra> i think we have them in some of the hardening packages
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| 12:57 | but not by default
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| 12:57 | <vagrantc> debian has them in the acl package, but i don't think it's typically installed
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| 12:57 | <warren> I thought ConsoleKit sets facl's of stuff in /dev/*
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| 12:57 | <ogra> oh, we do as well
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| 12:57 | just checked
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| 12:58 | <ogra> hal depends on acl
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| 12:58 | so every distro shuld have it apparently
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| 12:59 | <warren> So maybe we should add something like:
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| 12:59 | upon login, allow the logged in user rw access to the sound devices
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| 12:59 | <ogra> well, there is no need for that on debian or ubuntu
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| 13:00 | <warren> OTOH... there is no good reason why user apps should directly talk to those devices
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| 13:00 | <ogra> right
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| 13:00 | <warren> ok, i'm just backing out that parameter and tagging ltsp-trunk again
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| 13:00 | anything else you folks want in?
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| 13:00 | * ogra doesnt care atm ... one day after release :) | |
| 13:02 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <stgraber> right, we have six months to think about that
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| 13:02 | gonzaloaf_laptop has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:03 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 13:07 | <warren> what is the lts.conf option for numlock?
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| 13:07 | and what is the default?
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| 13:09 | <vagrantc> warren: LDM_NUMLOCK boolean
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| 13:09 | default is unset, so false.
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| 13:11 | * vagrantc hangs head in shame at another undocumented implemented feature | |
| 13:11 | <warren> hmmm
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| 13:12 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:12 | <warren> did anybody test the setxkbmap change?
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| 13:12 | it isn't working now
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| 13:12 | <vagrantc> i tested it on debian
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| 13:12 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 13:12 | <ogra> worked in ubuntu
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| 13:13 | <vagrantc> warren: it really was just a port of the C code into shell.
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| 13:13 | <ogra> but as i said before i'd prefer a hal solution
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| 13:13 | <vagrantc> warren: maybe setxkbmap changed?
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| 13:13 | <warren> the C code was a port of my original shell version
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| 13:13 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:13 | <ogra> but we need to wait for the rest of distros to switch to xorg 1.5 first
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| 13:13 | <warren> why?
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| 13:13 | that particular code should work on older x.org
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| 13:14 | <ogra> because i dont want both codepaths
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| 13:14 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 13:14 | <warren> eh, both codepaths are in there now?
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| 13:14 | <ogra> no
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> but ogra wants the hal stuff
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| 13:14 | <ogra> hal doesnt read any env vars to set keymap stuff
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| 13:15 | but sets the default anyway if you have 1.5
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| 13:15 | as soon as everyone has 1.5 we should modify the ha values instead of having a second tool
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| 13:15 | *hal
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| 13:15 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:16 | <vagrantc> that'll be a while.
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| 13:16 | <ogra> as soon as lenny releases, no ?
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| 13:16 | gentoo builds upstream
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| 13:16 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 13:16 | <ogra> and i guess suse will use 1.5 next release as well
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| 13:17 | <vagrantc> ogra: i guess i can maintain a backport to lenny with patches, but i don't want to make it hard-coded.
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| 13:17 | i actually try to support stable releases with current ltsp.
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| 13:17 | <ogra> well, that'll get hard with xorg 1.5 in place
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| 13:17 | <vagrantc> managed to keep backports working throughout most of the etch cycle
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| 13:18 | <ogra> i would really see us dropping all the input devices crap and write proper hal equivalents
| |
| 13:18 | <vagrantc> i know. and i don't want to break backwards compatibility.
| |
| 13:18 | <ogra> upstream breaks backwards compatibility
| |
| 13:18 | and i dont like to have everything slow down because we have to duplicate everything
| |
| 13:19 | <vagrantc> i'm sure it'll bring everything to a grinding halt :P
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| 13:20 | <warren> Hmm.... it isn't respecting XKB* options
| |
| 13:21 | <ogra> well, you can drop inputattach, 90% of the xorg.conf parsing code and a lot more for two small hal scripts
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| 13:22 | <vagrantc> warren: look at the code in ldm-trunk/rc.d/I05*
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| 13:25 | Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC | |
| 13:26 | <warren> yeah... downgraded to ldm-2.0.13 and it works again
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| 13:27 | elisboa_ has quit IRC | |
| 13:31 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "ltsp-setkb.sh" (31 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/85
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| 13:31 | <warren> i'm a little confused...
| |
| 13:31 | <ogra> theer you got the hal variant (untested, but i'm pretty sure it works)
| |
| 13:31 | <warren> I added a debug echo print to I05 and it began working
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| 13:31 | <ogra> needs to run before X is up
| |
| 13:33 | <Ryan52> ogra: host_list is a GList
| |
| 13:34 | <vagrantc> warren: that's just weird.
| |
| 13:35 | <ogra> Ryan52, hmm, not sure about glists ... i'm pretty sure g_string gets freed automatically
| |
| 13:36 | .oO( why did they have to name a variable descriptor after female underwear ... /me never gets that ... or is only gernamy calling tehm g-stings)
| |
| 13:36 | <vagrantc> ogra: i'm sure they got a kick out of it.
| |
| 13:36 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 13:37 | * vagrantc notes that it's not just female underwear | |
| 13:37 | <warren> back
| |
| 13:37 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 13:41 | <warren> so I don't know wtf is going on
| |
| 13:42 | <Gadi> hey, ogra: does the initramfs have stat?
| |
| 13:43 | in ubuntu
| |
| 13:43 | or do I have to parse the output of ls?
| |
| 13:43 | <ogra> no idea
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> big help :P
| |
| 13:43 | <ogra> pick the safe way, use ls if you know it works :)
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| 13:43 | <warren> grrr
| |
| 13:44 | I logged out and back in, and now it is broken again
| |
| 13:44 | something else is setting the keyboard?
| |
| 13:44 | <ogra> hal does
| |
| 13:45 | but that happens before X is up
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| 13:45 | tino has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:46 | <tino> LTSP5 is up and running fine, but with my second WS, which I would like to set-up, above message is comming. MAC address, I've entered in the ltsp.conf file in the same way as with the "running" WS. Any idear how to fix that?
| |
| 13:48 | LTSP5 is up and running fine, but with my second WS, which I would like to set-up, this message "Valid Link not established". The MAC address, I've entered in the ltsp.conf file in the same way as with the "running" WS. Any idear how to fix that?
| |
| 13:51 | <sbalneav> Valid link not established?
| |
| 13:51 | <alkisg> Gadi: stat is there on intrepid initramfs
| |
| 13:51 | <sbalneav> Where do you get that message?
| |
| 13:51 | <warren> something is very screwy
| |
| 13:51 | It sets the keyboard only sometime
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| 13:52 | <tino> The msg comes during boot of the WS
| |
| 13:52 | <ogra> warren, sounds racy
| |
| 13:52 | get a slower client :)
| |
| 13:53 | <sbalneav> tino: At what point during the boot? After the kernel's loaded? And is that the exact message?
| |
| 13:55 | <tino> sorry hw can I see that the kernel is loaded, I don't know, but the msg is comming quite early, I would gues when the WS starts "talking2 to the DHCP
| |
| 13:56 | <sbalneav> What kind of network card is in the thin client. Maybe the kernel can't find a driver for it.
| |
| 13:57 | * ogra has never heard that error message | |
| 13:57 | <sbalneav> Neither have I, that's why I asked if that's the exact errror message.
| |
| 13:58 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 13:58 | * warren tries the hal way | |
| 13:58 | <ogra> warren, make sure the script is executed before X comes up but if hal already runs
| |
| 13:59 | <tino> Good point, I guess also it's the card, I'm not sure but I think the card was working in the network . But I think I will try a different one
| |
| 13:59 | <ogra> it must sit between the two
| |
| 13:59 | <warren> ogra: the hal way works only if you use evdev?
| |
| 14:00 | <sbalneav> tino: Do you see the kernel downloading onto the client?
| |
| 14:00 | <ogra> which is the default
| |
| 14:00 | <tino> before the MAC adr. is comming and then this exact msg:"Valid Link not established"
| |
| 14:00 | <ogra> yes
| |
| 14:00 | <warren> ogra: not on older distros
| |
| 14:00 | <sbalneav> That's the card that's issuing that.
| |
| 14:00 | <ogra> warren, on all distros using xorg 1.5
| |
| 14:00 | <sbalneav> You've got a hardware problem
| |
| 14:00 | check your wires/switches, etc.
| |
| 14:01 | <tino> sbalneav; I don't think so
| |
| 14:01 | <warren> ogra: F9 didn't use evdev despite xorg 1.5
| |
| 14:02 | <sbalneav> Well, you're getting it before the mac address, before dhcp, right?
| |
| 14:03 | <alkisg> tino: what do you use to boot the WS? etherboot?
| |
| 14:03 | <ogra> warren, how could FC9 use 1.5 ?
| |
| 14:04 | it wasnt existent back then
| |
| 14:04 | <warren> ogra: 1.49999999999
| |
| 14:04 | the ABI of 1.5 was set long ago
| |
| 14:04 | F9 later upgraded into 1.5
| |
| 14:04 | <sbalneav> I thought 1.49999972549 was the best version.
| |
| 14:05 | They totally wrecked it in 1.49999972550
| |
| 14:05 | <warren> something racy is going on =(
| |
| 14:05 | * ogra waits for 3.1415938 :) | |
| 14:05 | <tino> alkisg:I use etherboot
| |
| 14:05 | <sbalneav> 22/7: Not Pi, but an incredible simulation!
| |
| 14:06 | tino: So, looks like Etherboot's not happy with something on the network.
| |
| 14:06 | <alkisg> tino: I think either the etherboot driver of your card is bad, or you have wires/switches problem like sbalneav said
| |
| 14:07 | <ogra> warren, shouldnt be hard to adapt the script to whatever driver is used in FC9 though
| |
| 14:07 | warren, i'm sure the option names will still be the same
| |
| 14:07 | <sbalneav> http://www.virtualbox.org/browser/trunk/src/VBox/Devices/PC/Etherboot-src/drivers/net/eepro100.c?rev=1
| |
| 14:07 | 754 * This allows for faster failure if there is nothing
| |
| 14:07 | 755 * we can do.
| |
| 14:07 | 756 */
| |
| 14:07 | 757 if (!(mdio_read(eeprom[6] & 0x1f, 1) & (1 << 2))) {
| |
| 14:07 | 758 printf("Valid link not established\n");
| |
| 14:08 | 759 eepro100_disable(dev);
| |
| 14:08 | 760 return 0;
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| 14:08 | 761 }
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| 14:08 | <Gadi> alkisg: thanks, man - I had to stuff awk in there for something else, anyway - so I'll be safe and parse
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| 14:08 | joebaker has quit IRC | |
| 14:08 | joebaker has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:09 | <tino> alkisg:Thanks will change the card and let you know
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| 14:09 | <sbalneav> So, according to the etherboot source, it's checking to see if the network cable's plugged in.
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| 14:09 | And not finding one.
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> tino, you boot from a rom or a floppy/cd/hd?
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| 14:10 | <tino> alkisg: from CD which works fine with the other computer
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| 14:10 | <warren> I'm running ldm-2.0.13 over and over again to see if it was intermittent back then
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> tino, just download the newer version, gpxe. You can download a CD with all the drivers from rom-o-matic
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| 14:11 | <warren> OH!
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| 14:11 | when do the I* scripts run?
| |
| 14:11 | <ogra> after the ssh tunnel is up
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| 14:11 | <warren> that's the wrong place
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| 14:11 | <sbalneav> tino: according to the etherboot source code, the network card doesn't see a link
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| 14:12 | <ogra> no ?
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| 14:12 | <tino> alksig: that is the CD I'm using and the network card is also very old (all my WS are old :=) ). I will change the network card I've lots of them
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| 14:12 | <warren> You want the keyboard layout set even before someone logs in
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| 14:12 | <ogra> warren, the I scripts should be identical to the former behavior of the S scripts
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| 14:12 | <warren> otherwise they might not be able to type their name and password
| |
| 14:12 | No
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| 14:12 | ogra: look at where my C method call was
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| 14:12 | <ogra> i know wher your C call was
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> tino, http://www.rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-git/gpxe.git/contrib/rom-o-matic/ - and choose "gpxe:all-drivers"
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| 14:12 | <warren> ogra: I put it in that seemingly strange place because it had to be done immediately before the greeter is painted
| |
| 14:13 | <ogra> right
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| 14:13 | <warren> setting the keyboard layout any other time is unreliable
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| 14:13 | <sbalneav> Wow, I go look up the exact place in the source code where the error is, and I'm kinda ignored in this conversation. Shutting up now.
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| 14:13 | <warren> I ran into exactly this problem earlier and put it there for this reason.
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| 14:13 | <ogra> warren, the hal way is reliable
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| 14:14 | <warren> ogra: but only after everyone is using evdev
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| 14:14 | <ogra> you can run it from the ltsp-client initscript
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| 14:14 | well, it wil work for FC10, ubuntu, gentoo and debian sid
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| 14:14 | <warren> ogra: I think we should do it both ways
| |
| 14:14 | <vagrantc> the I* scripts run before the greeter starts
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| 14:14 | <warren> ogra: F9 and F10 LTSP are identical in version
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| 14:14 | vagrantc: yeah, wrong place
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| 14:14 | <ogra> warren, ltsp, yes
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| 14:14 | <vagrantc> warren: how's that?
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| 14:14 | <ogra> Xorg no
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| 14:15 | vagrantc, fedora doesnt have stable releases
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| 14:15 | <vagrantc> warren: before the greeter starts is before someone logs in.
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| 14:15 | warren: after X starts, before the greeter.
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| 14:15 | <warren> vagrantc: I put setup_keyboard_layout() in that strange place because it was the only reliable place to put it
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| 14:16 | vagrantc: where in the code is running of the I* scripts?
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| 14:16 | ogra is correct that the hal way is proper
| |
| 14:16 | but we should do both until distros no longer need the old way8.
| |
| 14:16 | way
| |
| 14:17 | <ogra> which will be extra slow :/
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| 14:17 | <warren> get over it
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| 14:17 | <vagrantc> warren: src/ldm.c line 474
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| 14:17 | warren: that's where the I* scripts get run
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| 14:18 | <warren> vagrantc: yeah, that's why I am seeing racy behavior
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> sbalneav, sorry if I got in the way... I didn't see your message, I was looking for the url
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| 14:18 | <warren> vagrantc: the location where I set the keyboard made it stick without relying on timing
| |
| 14:18 | <vagrantc> i don't see how this relies on timing ...
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| 14:19 | <warren> it is failing to stick setxkbmap settings here on both F9 and F10 maybe 80% of the time
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| 14:19 | * ogra hugs sbalneav | |
| 14:19 | <warren> vagrantc: ldm and ldmgtkgreet are separate processes
| |
| 14:19 | <sbalneav> what'd I do?
| |
| 14:19 | <ogra> sbalneav, you sounded unhappy
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| 14:20 | <warren> fprintf(ldmlog, _("Launching Xorg\n"));
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| 14:20 | launch_x(argv); /* Launch X, pass any command line args */
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| 14:20 | rc_files("init"); /* Execute any rc files */
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| 14:20 | <ogra> so i thought a hug would help :)
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> warren: and ...
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| 14:20 | <warren> vagrantc: X is forked but not fully initialized at the time it runs the I* scripts
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| 14:20 | <sbalneav> Thankee
| |
| 14:20 | <ogra> vagrantc, x might still be in the process of launching
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 14:20 | <warren> vagrantc: if you set keyboard where the greeter would paint for the first time, then you're guaranteed for it to be ready.
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> what a mess.
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| 14:21 | <warren> Yes, I ran into this problem before.
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| 14:21 | <ogra> well, hal fixes all that
| |
| 14:21 | <warren> I had setup_keyboard_blah() exactly there
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| 14:21 | that's why I put it into the greeter
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| 14:21 | <ogra> sicne input devices are handled separately from X
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| 14:21 | <warren> ogra: I'll put it back into the greeter, but later add a boolean to avoid doing it again if evdev.
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| 14:22 | <ogra> yeah, sounds sane
| |
| 14:22 | <warren> ogra: that should satisfy both old and new X
| |
| 14:22 | <sbalneav> We could add an XOpenDisplay(); call there, which should block until the X display's ready.
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| 14:22 | <ogra> mind you, i might not port it to the new greeter though
| |
| 14:22 | * vagrantc hugs sbalneav | |
| 14:22 | <warren> OH!!
| |
| 14:22 | <ogra> ??
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| 14:22 | <warren> That also explains why ldm crashes sometimes but works the second time
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| 14:22 | sbalneav is totally correct
| |
| 14:23 | sbalneav: just XOpenDisplay(); is all that is needed?
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> Even a stopped clock is right once a day.
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| 14:23 | :)
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| 14:23 | <vagrantc> put an XOpenDisplay between launch_x and rc_files("init) ?
| |
| 14:23 | * warren tries it | |
| 14:23 | <sbalneav> Ummm, gimme two secs, I'll give you a code snippet
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| 14:23 | <warren> ok
| |
| 14:23 | * ogra would put it into the greeter | |
| 14:23 | <warren> ogra: put what?
| |
| 14:23 | <ogra> XOpenDisplay
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| 14:23 | <warren> ogra: no
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| 14:24 | <vagrantc> then we'd have to move the rc_files function into both the greeter and ldm
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| 14:24 | <warren> ogra: the greeter was failing to run the first time because it was launched before X was ready
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| 14:24 | <ogra> oh, wait, the greeter wouldnt come up without display anyway
| |
| 14:24 | <vagrantc> and that
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| 14:24 | <warren> sbalneav has the correct solution.
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| 14:24 | <ogra> right
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| 14:24 | <warren> holy crap, we're a team
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| 14:24 | <ogra> yay
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| 14:24 | <warren> Ubuntu breaks things, I figure out why, sbalneav fixes it.
| |
| 14:24 | =)
| |
| 14:24 | <ogra> :P
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| 14:25 | debian broke it
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| 14:25 | <warren> This does solve the long standing issue of ldm being racy
| |
| 14:25 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:26 | though i never saw these races here i must admit
| |
| 14:26 | ubuntus X must be faster :)
| |
| 14:27 | <warren> or your systems are slower
| |
| 14:27 | <ogra> or that
| |
| 14:27 | someone said that recently
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| 14:27 | though they didnt compare to other distros only to older ubuntu yet
| |
| 14:28 | warren, btw, whats your opinion about using squashfs for initrd ?
| |
| 14:28 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "XOpenDisplay" (17 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/86
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| 14:28 | <ogra> (assuming you read the lwn article)
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| 14:30 | <warren> ogra: ?
| |
| 14:30 | <sbalneav> Summat like that should suffice.
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| 14:30 | <ogra> squashfs is in mainline now
| |
| 14:30 | with .28
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| 14:31 | <warren> that hasn't stopped anyone from using it before...
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> Really, we wanted to move the starting of X outside of ldm per Gadi's suggestion.
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| 14:31 | <ogra> and they had a comparison to cramfs up ... very impressing
| |
| 14:31 | no, but now you could use a squashed initramfs
| |
| 14:31 | <warren> sbalneav: would that snippet work even if X was started before ldm?
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| 14:31 | <sbalneav> What we COULD do, when we do that is do the XOpenDisplay right at the beginning...
| |
| 14:31 | yes, I'm just coming to that...
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| 14:32 | <warren> sbalneav: ok, so I should insert this after it launches X?
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| 14:33 | <sbalneav> So, we could leave the display structure open, and then we could have things like LDM read atoms, and clean up the atoms after a session ends, so that X doesn't need to be restarted, etc.
| |
| 14:33 | yeah, after X starts, but before you run the init scripts.
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| 14:33 | <warren> wait... there was some other reason why restarting X was a good idea
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| 14:33 | sbalneav: GNOME explicitly restarts X every time for security reasons
| |
| 14:33 | <sbalneav> Cleaning up X atoms
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| 14:34 | But, I'm beginning to wonder if we couldn't just enumerate all the atoms in the server, and any that DON'T get cleaned up, we clean them up manually.
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| 14:35 | Lets hash out that idear in main.
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| 14:35 | <ogra> it wont work
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| 14:35 | <sbalneav> No?
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| 14:35 | <ogra> (leaving X running i mean)
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| 14:35 | no, because that means your localapp stuff stays
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| 14:36 | thats a major security issue
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| 14:36 | <warren> there were other reasons
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| 14:36 | you can change the xauth cookie for the next user
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| 14:36 | <ogra> i personally like the ised of keeping it running
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| 14:36 | <warren> but existing clients can remain connected and snoop
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| 14:36 | <ogra> *idea
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| 14:36 | yeah
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| 14:37 | <warren> This really is not an important problem
| |
| 14:37 | <ogra> xauth, sshfs remainings, loaclapp remainings etc
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| 14:37 | <sbalneav> Meh, restarting's find for now.
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| 14:37 | <ogra> warren, Gadi will make it one :) he is pushing for it since years
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| 14:37 | <warren> to workaround buggy X drivers that fuck up at restarting?
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| 14:37 | <sbalneav> But actually having LDM have access to X atoms might be useful.
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| 14:37 | <warren> =)
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| 14:37 | <ogra> (since the first python ldm)
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| 14:38 | heh
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| 14:38 | <sbalneav> What we need to do is talk to KeithP, and get him to implement a "light" restart function that:
| |
| 14:38 | Kills all current connections
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| 14:38 | cleans out all existing Xatoms,
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| 14:38 | <ogra> that cleans up the filesystem :P
| |
| 14:39 | <sbalneav> anything else..
| |
| 14:39 | WithOUT restarting the core X and display.
| |
| 14:39 | <ogra> ignores xauth
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| 14:39 | <sbalneav> X soft reset.
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| 14:39 | <warren> when we have kernel modesetting you wont notice flicker of restarting X
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| 14:39 | This is really a non-issue
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| 14:39 | <ogra> sbalneav, i think thats what Xmove does
| |
| 14:39 | and i thing thats why Xmove was abandoned ... even by its dev
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| 14:40 | * warren building with scottie's patch | |
| 14:41 | <sbalneav> Keep in mind, we might need to put it in a loop.
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| 14:41 | So we might need something like:
| |
| 14:42 | for i = 1 to 10; if (XOpenDisplay()) break; else sleep(1); rof
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| 14:42 | in pseudocode
| |
| 14:42 | We'll have to experiment. I THINK it blocks.
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| 14:43 | <warren> sbalneav: ajax said this isn't good enough
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| 14:43 | sbalneav: xopendisplay will try twice then just fail
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| 14:43 | sbalneav: it doesn't block waiting for X
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| 14:43 | oh
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| 14:44 | <warren> sbalneav: sleep(1) is one second?
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| 14:44 | <ogra> eeek
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| 14:44 | <warren> sbalneav: he said that X sends a signal to its parent process when it is ready
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| 14:44 | sbalneav: gdm has code for this
| |
| 14:44 | * ogra is allergic to sleep | |
| 14:44 | <vagrantc> ogra: i thought you just released!
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| 14:45 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, enforced sleep :)
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| 14:46 | <sbalneav> ok, so let's steal^h^h^h^h^h^h borrow from gdm :)
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| 14:46 | brb, workping
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| 14:46 | <ogra> sbalneav, as long as that still works :P
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| 14:47 | new gdm wont have anything thats worth stealing
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| 14:51 | <loather-work> yeah, the new gdm as shipped with F9 and probably the latest ubuntu isn't all that great at all
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| 14:51 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 14:51 | <loather-work> breaks well-defined behaviour, launches a bunch of stuff you don't necessarily want launched, etc.
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| 14:52 | <stgraber> ok, we now have our LTSP-Cluster box installing. Core2Duo + 2GB of RAM and a 80GB 10k RPM
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| 14:53 | ogra has quit IRC | |
| 14:55 | ogra has joined #ltsp | |
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| 15:00 | * vagrantc wonders what GDM is doing that went so wrong ... | |
| 15:00 | <ogra> gdm is a user session now
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| 15:00 | with the latest code
| |
| 15:01 | i.e. it also runs things like NM or gnome-power-manager
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| 15:01 | no mores way to use/set anything on the system level
| |
| 15:01 | <loather-work> and gnome-screensaver
| |
| 15:02 | <ogra> right
| |
| 15:02 | <loather-work> yeah, you can't theme it, it's always got the click to select a user thing
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| 15:02 | <ogra> it wont in ubuntu :)
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| 15:02 | <loather-work> it's regressed into something only marginally useful
| |
| 15:02 | yeah, the more i'm using fedora, the more i think it's going in the wrong direction
| |
| 15:02 | <ogra> i thnk MacSlow is basing his cool cairo code on the old greeter
| |
| 15:04 | <loather-work> and i've been a redhat user for a very logn time
| |
| 15:06 | * ogra points to http://macslow.thepimp.net/?p=163 | |
| 15:06 | <ogra> likely to be in 9.04
| |
| 15:07 | <mccann> so much misinformation here
| |
| 15:09 | <ogra> educate us :)
| |
| 15:09 | isnt it running a user session ?
| |
| 15:10 | <mccann> gnome-session is just a way to execute .desktop files. you can add whatever you like
| |
| 15:10 | it always was a "user session" just not a useful one
| |
| 15:10 | <ogra> right
| |
| 15:10 | <mccann> always had a windows manager etc
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| 15:10 | just didn't allow you to suspend correctly when you close your laptop lid
| |
| 15:10 | etc
| |
| 15:11 | does not run gnome-screensaver obviously
| |
| 15:11 | <ogra> not the job of gnome-session imho
| |
| 15:11 | suspend resume is a kernel job
| |
| 15:11 | <loather-work> ogra has that nailed 100%
| |
| 15:11 | <mccann> not talking about gnome-session
| |
| 15:11 | <ogra> even pm-utils are a big failure in my opinion
| |
| 15:11 | ah, your mean gdm
| |
| 15:11 | ok
| |
| 15:12 | right, if you base th whle system on the assumption that gpm is the thing responsible for power management, you need a user session to run and manage it
| |
| 15:13 | <warren> sbalneav: OK, just talked to rstrode, he recommended looking at rhgb for simpler code to handle this.
| |
| 15:13 | <ogra> same goes for network management ... if you assume NM should manage everything using a user session is the only proper way to go
| |
| 15:14 | <loather-work> yeah, i think i'm gonna switch back to XDM and use xsession files.
| |
| 15:14 | IMO NM has absolutely no place on a server
| |
| 15:14 | <ogra> i dont complain about waht you do with gdm, but i dont like the assumptions that bases on
| |
| 15:15 | from a gdm POV i might have been the right selection and will surely ease security maintenance
| |
| 15:15 | the while underlying concept is what i dont like there
| |
| 15:16 | <warren> ogra: NM is growing the concept of system connections
| |
| 15:16 | <ogra> *whole
| |
| 15:16 | <warren> ogra: you can have connections as either user or system
| |
| 15:16 | <ogra> warren, right .... *growing*
| |
| 15:16 | have you ever looked at intels network manager tool ?
| |
| 15:16 | <warren> it is pretty fucked that we shipped it as default before it is ready
| |
| 15:17 | <ogra> they have a conurrent product that gives a way saner impression
| |
| 15:17 | *concurrent
| |
| 15:17 | NM is getting there though
| |
| 15:18 | but its sad thet the intel NM didnt get any community attention ... if you would have merged both projects 1/2 year ago we would already be there
| |
| 15:19 | <loather-work> well, the intel one isn't a python monstrosity that doesn't work right half the time :P
| |
| 15:19 | * ogra hates NIH as much as he suffers from it | |
| 15:19 | <warren> sbalneav: ogra: OK, I know how to fix this properly, but it is going to take a significant amount of code refactoring
| |
| 15:20 | <ogra> warren, many changes to the greeter ?
| |
| 15:20 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 15:20 | <warren> ogra: no, ldm.c
| |
| 15:20 | <ogra> thats my main focus of ltsp work atm
| |
| 15:20 | fine with me then
| |
| 15:22 | <warren> ogra: until I have time to refactor, I'm moving rc_files("init"); into the greeter
| |
| 15:22 | it is the only safe way to do this.
| |
| 15:22 | <ogra> ok
| |
| 15:23 | i havent ported much to the new greeter yet
| |
| 15:23 | still playing with concepts
| |
| 15:23 | <warren> damn...
| |
| 15:23 | <ogra> ??
| |
| 15:23 | <warren> greeter lacks ldmlog, ldm_spawn, etc.
| |
| 15:24 | <ogra> the new code has tons of debug options
| |
| 15:24 | <warren> what new code
| |
| 15:24 | is this secret?
| |
| 15:24 | why has it never been mentioned on ltsp-developer?
| |
| 15:24 | <ogra> scottie is working on an exportable ldm_log feature that can be switched to log to syslog
| |
| 15:25 | warren, i started working on it when i noticed that the old stuff doesnt suffice anymore
| |
| 15:25 | <warren> ldm.c needs almost a complete rewrite
| |
| 15:25 | <ogra> enhancing the UI always influences and interferes with other element
| |
| 15:25 | s
| |
| 15:25 | feel free
| |
| 15:26 | i'm doing the greeter now ... having each element in its own function (so you can add new elements by adding a new funtion, can switch elements on and off as you like)
| |
| 15:26 | and having all elements freely positionable ... even overlapping so nothing interferes with anything anymore
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| 15:26 | six2one has quit IRC | |
| 15:27 | <ogra> thast my main focus ... i will put the code online as soon as i have some structure and the basic features ported
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| 15:28 | all lelements i have yet use theme debugging funtions for theme devs, that should be switchable as soon as i have scotties implementation
| |
| 15:29 | so theme autors should have an easy way to develop by switching on theme debugging
| |
| 15:30 | and it should easily be possible to add someting like a ... analogue clock
| |
| 15:32 | <Gadi> have a wood geekend, kids!
| |
| 15:32 | :P
| |
| 15:32 | <ogra> you too
| |
| 15:32 | <Gadi> don't port anything I wouldn't
| |
| 15:32 | <ogra> and have a beer for me
| |
| 15:32 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 15:32 | u bet
| |
| 15:32 | <ogra> :)
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| 15:32 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 15:32 | <ogra> and hugs and greetings to ragnar
| |
| 15:32 | bah
| |
| 15:32 | <Appiah> anyone know how much space do you need on the Ltsp client to use local firefox?
| |
| 15:32 | <ogra> gone
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| 15:33 | Appiah, its all a matter of ram
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| 15:33 | DonSilver has quit IRC | |
| 15:33 | <ogra> local apps are still sitting in the nbd image or nfs root on the server
| |
| 15:34 | <Appiah> but if I run "local" firefox
| |
| 15:34 | <warren> gahh
| |
| 15:34 | <Appiah> it would take cpu and ram load of the server right?
| |
| 15:34 | <warren> this is a LOT of work...
| |
| 15:35 | <ogra> Appiah, right and put bth on the client
| |
| 15:35 | *both
| |
| 15:35 | <warren> I'm going to use a different approach
| |
| 15:35 | ugly hack
| |
| 15:35 | <Appiah> this wiki entry seams old...
| |
| 15:35 | <ogra> well, if you rewite ldm.c at some point ...
| |
| 15:36 | <warren> ogra: loop in the shell script, if setxkbmap exited 255, X is not ready yet
| |
| 15:36 | <Appiah> http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LocalAppFirefox
| |
| 15:36 | <ogra> bah
| |
| 15:36 | <warren> I need SOMETHING that works now
| |
| 15:36 | <ogra> Appiah, all wiki entries are
| |
| 15:36 | warren, well, use the hal script if hal is installed ... that fies it on FC10
| |
| 15:37 | <Appiah> does the docu team update the wiki ogra ?
| |
| 15:37 | <ogra> oh, you installed hal in FC9 already, right ?
| |
| 15:37 | Appiah, not yet
| |
| 15:37 | <warren> ogra: I need to simultaneously fix it in RHEL5, F9 and F10
| |
| 15:37 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 15:37 | <warren> so doing it this way
| |
| 15:37 | <Appiah> well , they are the ones to update it right?
| |
| 15:37 | <ogra> not sure
| |
| 15:37 | <warren> The ugly loop can be removed when ldm.c is refactored to watch for the SIGUSR1 from X properly
| |
| 15:38 | <ogra> i dont think there actually is a wiki team
| |
| 15:38 | warren, yeah, the only person actually caring about ldm atm might be waren
| |
| 15:38 | err
| |
| 15:38 | vagrantc,
| |
| 15:38 | since he is near a release
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| 15:39 | alkisg has left #ltsp | |
| 15:40 | * ogra already had to much of that awesome Rioja | |
| 15:41 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:41 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
| 15:42 | <warren> while true; do
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| 15:42 | setxkbmap 2> /dev/null
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| 15:42 | if [ $? -eq 255 ]; then
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| 15:42 | sleep 0.1
| |
| 15:42 | else
| |
| 15:42 | break
| |
| 15:42 | fi
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| 15:42 | done
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| 15:42 | <ogra> does sleep work without brackets there ?
| |
| 15:43 | or are you in shell ?
| |
| 15:43 | oh, you are
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| 15:43 | right
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> warren: does it only exit 255 if it can't reach an X server ?
| |
| 15:43 | <warren> vagrantc: I dunno, testing now
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| 15:43 | <Appiah> Should I send a question to the mailing list to find out whos updating the wiki?
| |
| 15:44 | <ogra> Appiah, yeah, that might help
| |
| 15:44 | <vagrantc> warren: what about something like a call to "xwininfo -root" instead ? maybe there's not really any need.
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| 15:44 | <ogra> though it wuld mae sense if the ltsp-docwriters would do t
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| 15:44 | it
| |
| 15:44 | <warren> This hack doesn't come anywhere near the awesomeness of Gadi's hacks.
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| 15:44 | <Appiah> oh my looks like sbalneav is on the ltsp-localapps for ubuntu wiki
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| 15:45 | <ogra> warren, i'd say about 50% near though
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| 15:45 | Appiah, thats ancient
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| 15:45 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 15:46 | * vagrantc is still using ldm 2.0.6 for release | |
| 15:46 | <Appiah> oh
| |
| 15:46 | <vagrantc> so changes in ldm-trunk don't worry me really.
| |
| 15:46 | <Appiah> you're on the list too;)
| |
| 15:46 | editoer 2008-08-06 was localhost
| |
| 15:46 | damn
| |
| 15:46 | <ogra> Appiah, ltsp development was sponsored by canonical for two years, we worked out a lot of specs we didnt implement during that timeframe
| |
| 15:46 | but thats about a year ago
| |
| 15:46 | <Appiah> canoical ?
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| 15:47 | <ogra> the company sponsoring ubuntu
| |
| 15:47 | <Appiah> oh
| |
| 15:47 | so it is not being developed anymore?
| |
| 15:47 | * ogra points Appiah to http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5 | |
| 15:48 | <Appiah> oh ofcourse
| |
| 15:48 | :D
| |
| 15:48 | <ogra> it moved from being developed by me paid for it fulltime to a multi distro project
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| 15:48 | <Appiah> Ye I understand now
| |
| 15:48 | <warren> vagrantc: seems like it is 255
| |
| 15:49 | vagrantc: I had it print to ldm.log, it printed 3 times before it was ready.
| |
| 15:49 | <ogra> a year go i moved on to new duties in canonical and ltsp is now maintained by a team of devs from all major distros
| |
| 15:49 | as a team effort across distro borders
| |
| 15:49 | <warren> All?
| |
| 15:49 | Where is Mandriva?
| |
| 15:49 | or SCO?
| |
| 15:49 | <ogra> dead ?
| |
| 15:49 | <Appiah> haha
| |
| 15:49 | <ogra> haha
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| 15:49 | <Appiah> sco :D
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm wondering if we shouldn't implement a I01-wait-for-x or some such rather than implementing it in each plugin
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| 15:50 | <ogra> isnt Mndriva in the process to rename itsefl to "the distro formerly known as ..." ?
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> or even implementing it in ldm-script
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| 15:51 | <ogra> vagrantc, better in the C code
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| 15:51 | before you parse any of the scripts
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> that's fine too.
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| 15:51 | <otavio> ogra: formely known as ...?
| |
| 15:51 | :-D
| |
| 15:51 | <vagrantc> otavio: hi! :)
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| 15:52 | <ogra> while ! getenv(DISPLAY) sleep(1) ....
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| 15:52 | <warren> vagrantc: OK, I'll do that.
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| 15:52 | <otavio> vagrantc: :-D
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| 15:52 | <vagrantc> ogra: i think DISPLAY is set, you just can't access it
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| 15:52 | <ogra> hey otavio :)
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| 15:52 | <otavio> vagrantc: nice to see you around
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| 15:52 | <ogra> vagrantc, from ldm.c ?
| |
| 15:52 | that would be bad
| |
| 15:52 | <otavio> ogra: we use xwininfo to detect when a display is available here in company
| |
| 15:52 | ogra: DISPLAY fails
| |
| 15:52 | <ogra> oh, wow
| |
| 15:52 | it shouldnt imho
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| 15:53 | <otavio> ogra: xwininfo really waits to the display to be connectable
| |
| 15:53 | <ogra> but if xwininfo is proven to work, lets take that
| |
| 15:53 | <warren> vagrantc: you're actually correct, any X client will work
| |
| 15:53 | <vagrantc> warren: i just choose xwininfo because i think it's pretty core to X ... but maybe i'm wrong.
| |
| 15:53 | <ogra> otavio, the ldm greeter is spawned by ldm.c though ... would be bad if there were no display
| |
| 15:54 | <otavio> ogra: xwininfo -root
| |
| 15:54 | ogra: this does the trick
| |
| 15:54 | <warren> xorg-x11-utils isn't guaranteed to be installed I think
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| 15:54 | <ogra> yeah, no objections
| |
| 15:54 | <Appiah> Guess I'll start playing with local app firefox and see if I can write a more uptdate howto
| |
| 15:54 | <ogra> warren, make it a dependecy
| |
| 15:55 | <warren> xwininfo blocks?
| |
| 15:55 | <otavio> ogra: if it is ldm.c; a simple while look that uses XOpenDisplay does it
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| 15:55 | warren: yes, it does
| |
| 15:55 | <Appiah> then get whoevers in charge of the wiki to accept my howto
| |
| 15:55 | <otavio> warren: and fail with $? too
| |
| 15:55 | <warren> wait
| |
| 15:55 | <ogra> otavio, that was the initil suggestion from sbalneav
| |
| 15:55 | <warren> fail with $? and blocking are not thes ame
| |
| 15:55 | <ogra> not sure why warren and vagrantc dropped it
| |
| 15:55 | <warren> dropped what?
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| 15:55 | <ogra> XOpenDisplay
| |
| 15:55 | <otavio> warren: it has a small timeout; and fail too. So you need to use it in a look
| |
| 15:55 | <ogra> in ldm.c
| |
| 15:56 | <otavio> I'd more to use XOpenDisplay in ldm.c
| |
| 15:56 | <vagrantc> XOpenDisplay in a loop sounds reasonable.
| |
| 15:56 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 15:56 | <warren> I'm in favor of a I01 script because it is less code, and this has to be redone properly anyway
| |
| 15:56 | XOpenDisplay is not proper
| |
| 15:56 | <ogra> i'm pretty sure even getenv(DISPLAY) should work from ldm.c
| |
| 15:56 | else the greeter wouldnt come up
| |
| 15:57 | <warren> We need to be launching X in a different way, watching for the SIGUSR1 signal when it is complete
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| 15:57 | with signal handlers and such
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> otavio: how's debian-installer coming along? :)
| |
| 15:57 | <warren> I'm doing the I01 script because it is simplest
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| 15:57 | mikkel has quit IRC | |
| 15:57 | <ogra> oh, otavio id working on d-i nowadays ?
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| 15:58 | *is
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> otavio: release manager for d-i, no?
| |
| 15:58 | <ogra> wow
| |
| 15:58 | cjwatson gave that away ?
| |
| 15:58 | cool
| |
| 15:58 | <otavio> ogra: http://paste.debian.net/20405/
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| 15:58 | ogra: this does it
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| 15:58 | vagrantc: yep
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| 15:59 | <ogra> warren, ^^^
| |
| 15:59 | <otavio> warren: yes. It signals SIGUSR1 when it is ready to accept connections
| |
| 15:59 | warren: however if you have multiple X running you can't wait for it
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| 16:00 | warren: so XOpenDisplay is the safest way of checking it. So you can choose which display to /wait/ for
| |
| 16:00 | <warren> umm
| |
| 16:00 | * otavio goes back to work :P | |
| 16:00 | * vagrantc pushes for ltspfs 0.5.5 in debian lenny | |
| 16:00 | <warren> isn't it ok to use any X client with DISPLAY set to check for the same thing?
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| 16:00 | <ogra> .5 ?
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> ogra: maybe we'll have the same upstream after all :)
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| 16:00 | <ogra> yay
| |
| 16:01 | well, your release seems to take a while
| |
| 16:01 | <vagrantc> ogra: you've got 0.5.5-0ubuntu?
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| 16:01 | <otavio> warren: it is; but if you have an app that launches ldm why not check it?
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> ogra: they sure do.
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| 16:01 | <warren> I rather redo ldm.c properly with signal checking
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| 16:01 | <ogra> yep. 0.5.5-0ubuntu1
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| 16:01 | no ubuntu modifications even
| |
| 16:02 | <vagrantc> ogra: we've got 0.5.5-1 in experimental, but i'm trying to get a -2 into lenny.
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| 16:02 | <otavio> warren: as I said, it will work for most cases but fail in few ones. If you look at GDM/KDM code they also check for XOpenDisplay due that
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| 16:02 | <ogra> stephane will be able to sync right away in jaunty
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| 16:02 | <otavio> warren: in our multiseat app, we do it too
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> ogra: you should be able to pull 0.5.5-1 whenever you do that sort of thing.
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| 16:02 | <ogra> two to three weeks from now
| |
| 16:02 | depends on the toolchain
| |
| 16:02 | <warren> if DISPLAY is set to the desired display, how can it fail to check the proper X display?
| |
| 16:02 | also ldm doesn't support multiple concurrent ldm
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| 16:02 | <otavio> warren: the signal
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| 16:03 | warren: signal will be send but you don't know which starting X is sending it
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| 16:03 | <ogra> otavio, doesnt matter atm
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| 16:03 | <warren> otavio: are you sure? the signal is sent to the parent process by the child
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| 16:03 | <ogra> we only have one ldm
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| 16:03 | <otavio> warren: humm ...
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| 16:04 | warren: we had a cases in the multiseat that cause us to drop the signal ...
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| 16:04 | warren: /me tries to remember why
| |
| 16:04 | <warren> that sounds like a bug?
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| 16:04 | <ogra> multiseat was a bug all over :)
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| 16:04 | <otavio> warren: X has a lot of ugly things.
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| 16:04 | ogra: hehe
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| 16:04 | ogra: people likes it
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| 16:04 | <ogra> ubuntu finally dropped it
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| 16:04 | <otavio> ogra: and it is somewhat interesting
| |
| 16:05 | <ogra> yeah, the idea is
| |
| 16:05 | <vagrantc> multiseat thin clients make a lot of sense.
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| 16:05 | <ogra> the implementation always was a pain
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| 16:05 | <otavio> ogra: it works fine; but is rather complex
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| 16:05 | <ogra> yeah
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| 16:05 | which makes it painful
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| 16:05 | <otavio> ogra: mostly due the badness of VGA drivers and like
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| 16:06 | <ogra> i remember daniel stone spending 1/3 of his time of X maintanance on it
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| 16:06 | <otavio> X is also not friendly with multiple VGA cards
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| 16:06 | Guaraldo has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:06 | <ogra> the other 2/3 were for the rest of Xorg
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| 16:07 | joebaker has left #ltsp | |
| 16:07 | <otavio> So you can use a single instance, that works fine for VGA cards with multiple internal GPU or multiple X instances that works somewhat better but required a XDMCP server locally to wrap it out
| |
| 16:07 | so; ugly and complex to manage :P
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| 16:07 | <ogra> yeah
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| 16:07 | and dstone even tried to automate it for us :)
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| 16:08 | <otavio> ogra: we've written a multiseat manager; it is a pain but works for most distros now
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| 16:08 | <warren> is multiseat a production thing?
| |
| 16:08 | or abandoned?
| |
| 16:08 | <ogra> abandone
| |
| 16:08 | <otavio> warren: depends
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| 16:08 | warren: in ubuntu, gone
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| 16:08 | <ogra> upstream at least
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| 16:09 | well, ubuntu uses upstream and enhances it
| |
| 16:09 | <loather-work> multiseat; this being two physical consoles on the same box?
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| 16:09 | <ogra> where necessary for integration
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| 16:09 | loather-work, or more
| |
| 16:09 | <otavio> ogra: upstream will get multiseat going; people is going to do it right in future but it depends on kernel support
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| 16:09 | <ogra> yeah
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| 16:09 | if it is upstream agai it will return in ubuntu as well
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| 16:10 | +n
| |
| 16:10 | <loather-work> i see. i can see the utility of it, but thin clients are probably a better, easier choice IMO
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| 16:10 | <otavio> loather-work: yes. TC are easier to work with
| |
| 16:10 | loather-work: but MS are cheaper
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| 16:10 | <ogra> loather-work, imagine a work cube with four workplaces
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| 16:10 | <otavio> loather-work: it depends on the use
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| 16:10 | <ogra> you only have one achine to maintain
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| 16:11 | <otavio> loather-work: MS has distrance as a limit
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| 16:11 | loather-work: distance
| |
| 16:11 | <loather-work> definitely. when i worked at the naval ocean systems center we had a bunch of HP J210s that did it natively
| |
| 16:11 | up to four consoles per machine
| |
| 16:11 | which was nice, since the machines were $24K a pop
| |
| 16:11 | <ogra> HP had the 441 .,, which tried to do multiseat on a HW level
| |
| 16:11 | <otavio> loather-work: yes; exactly it. But done with regular machines
| |
| 16:11 | <ogra> failed as well ... sadly
| |
| 16:12 | <loather-work> yeah, these J210s were awesome in their time. dual 180MHz PA-8200c with a whopping 1GB RAM
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| 16:12 | <ogra> yep
| |
| 16:13 | but it wasnt adopted by customers
| |
| 16:13 | not enough at least
| |
| 16:13 | <loather-work> i miss PA-RISC. it was a great architecture.
| |
| 16:13 | I don't miss HP/UX though :)
| |
| 16:13 | * ogra loved MIPS | |
| 16:13 | <ogra> and i liked IRIX
| |
| 16:13 | <loather-work> MIPS was also a good one.
| |
| 16:13 | irix had some neat features
| |
| 16:13 | <ogra> *and* the SGI design
| |
| 16:13 | <otavio> heheh
| |
| 16:14 | nostalgy :-)
| |
| 16:14 | <loather-work> yea... it's a shame they all jumped on the itanic boat
| |
| 16:14 | * ogra still has some SGIs in his office | |
| 16:14 | <warren> tagging
| |
| 16:14 | <loather-work> i got rid of the last of my SGIs a few years back
| |
| 16:14 | the last one i had was an O2 with a godawful slow R4400
| |
| 16:14 | * otavio waiting compilation to finish; go beast! | |
| 16:14 | <ogra> i would never give them away
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| 16:15 | captain_magnus has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:15 | <loather-work> i hadn't turned it on in a couple of years
| |
| 16:15 | <ogra> me neither
| |
| 16:15 | but thats no reason :)
| |
| 16:15 | <loather-work> had been collecting dust, so i put it on craigslist and in like 15 minutes i had a guy saying, "GIMMEEE!!"
| |
| 16:15 | <vagrantc> it's not even a question of multiseat or thin-client, you can actually have multi-seat thin clients ...
| |
| 16:15 | <loather-work> ended up trading it for a 6-pack fo beer
| |
| 16:15 | <ogra> pffft
| |
| 16:15 | <loather-work> multiseat thin clients would be interesting
| |
| 16:16 | <otavio> vagrantc: indeed an interesting thing
| |
| 16:16 | <ogra> yeah
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| 16:16 | <loather-work> i miss serial terminals. :)
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| 16:16 | green screen baby!
| |
| 16:17 | <alkisg> Brazil uses a combination of multiseat and ltsp (tweaked)
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| 16:17 | I tried multiseat on my laptop, I got it working with 2 screens/mice/keyboards, it was very fast but somewhat unstable
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| 16:18 | F-GT has quit IRC | |
| 16:19 | <alkisg> In theory in should be much faster than ltsp (video etc), but it has to be working first :)
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| 16:19 | <otavio> alkisg: yes; for multiseat to work a small set of well tested hardware needs to be used.
| |
| 16:19 | alkisg: you can't just buy a new hardware and expect it to just work
| |
| 16:19 | alkisg: people fail to understand it
| |
| 16:20 | alkisg: and I'm Brazilian :P
| |
| 16:20 | <alkisg> Heh... :) Are there any improvements now with the new xorg and xephyr?
| |
| 16:20 | * ogra curses brazil ... | |
| 16:20 | * ogra is trying to hire some new mobile devs | |
| 16:21 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:21 | <ogra> but no way in brazil where the cleverest mobile guys seem to sit
| |
| 16:21 | since you godeammed cant get the HW past customes
| |
| 16:21 | <otavio> alkisg: the current solutions usually uses xephyr since it is avoids a lot of complexity
| |
| 16:21 | alkisg: but still depends on hardware stability and drivers quality
| |
| 16:21 | ogra: :-D
| |
| 16:22 | <ogra> your country is shooting itself in the foot :(
| |
| 16:22 | <otavio> ogra: i'm in brazil :P I'm not that clever but :P
| |
| 16:22 | <stgraber> yeah, new chroot built, took an hour thanks to overloaded archives :)
| |
| 16:22 | <ogra> otavio, i would take you :)
| |
| 16:22 | but still
| |
| 16:23 | <otavio> ogra: hehe
| |
| 16:23 | <ogra> your customs office stops me from doing o
| |
| 16:23 | *so
| |
| 16:23 | <alkisg> otavio, I've read that the new xorg has "GLX and DRI passthrough support for Xephyr", so it supports hw acceleration on all screens now?
| |
| 16:24 | <warren> oh really?
| |
| 16:24 | <otavio> alkisg: I've didn't try it
| |
| 16:24 | <warren> how much performance is lost?
| |
| 16:24 | <otavio> alkisg: it would be awesome
| |
| 16:24 | <ogra> not much
| |
| 16:24 | i heard it works quite well at least for composite
| |
| 16:24 | <alkisg> otavio, too bad that nvidia doesn't support more than 2 accelerated surfaces since 8800... Damn directx 10! :(
| |
| 16:24 | <otavio> ogra: if it works for composite it should work for most, if not all, other usages
| |
| 16:25 | alkisg: hahah
| |
| 16:25 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 16:25 | <alkisg> otavio, do you have a page/wiki/something with proposed hardware?
| |
| 16:25 | <otavio> alkisg: nvidia sucks!
| |
| 16:25 | <ogra> ++
| |
| 16:25 | <otavio> alkisg: no; I don't
| |
| 16:25 | * ogra recently thinks *intel* sucks | |
| 16:25 | <otavio> ogra: really? why?
| |
| 16:25 | <ogra> at leat since i wokr with mobile stuff
| |
| 16:25 | <otavio> ahahah
| |
| 16:26 | <ogra> their puolbo driver is as closed as nvidia
| |
| 16:26 | <alkisg> Ah, talking about graphic cards, which cards do you guys propose for ltsp? I thought intel would be a right choice...
| |
| 16:26 | <ogra> *poulsbo
| |
| 16:26 | and only works with DRI for kernel 2.6.24 and xorg .4
| |
| 16:26 | *1.4
| |
| 16:27 | <stgraber> alkisg: Intel works fine here (Intel chipsets + Atom CPU)
| |
| 16:28 | <ogra> everything the intel driver supports is unbeaten under linux
| |
| 16:28 | <alkisg> stgraber, can you e.g. run decently googleearth with ltsp (and gigabit network and descent clients etc)?
| |
| 16:28 | <warren> In Japan they had HP thin clients... AMD Sempron with some kind of ATI Radeon cards
| |
| 16:28 | <ogra> definately
| |
| 16:28 | <warren> They were fully supported by the open drivers
| |
| 16:28 | <ogra> warren, free drivers ?
| |
| 16:28 | <warren> 3D and everything
| |
| 16:28 | yes
| |
| 16:29 | <ogra> cool
| |
| 16:29 | <warren> I was told that that particular ATI card was NOT supported in 3D with an Intel cpu
| |
| 16:29 | only AMD
| |
| 16:29 | <ogra> yeah, the latest free one is already supporting a bunch
| |
| 16:29 | heh
| |
| 16:29 | so that's the path they go now ?
| |
| 16:30 | <warren> I'm not sure why
| |
| 16:30 | <ogra> keeping your revenue up ?
| |
| 16:30 | <warren> I don't know
| |
| 16:30 | <ogra> would be my guess
| |
| 16:31 | <stgraber> alkisg: I didn't try googleearth but if there is a problem with it it won't be the graphic card
| |
| 16:31 | <alkisg> stgraber, ty
| |
| 16:31 | <ogra> i mean ... you wont find an intel GM965 on a AMD board either
| |
| 16:32 | chrisinajar is now known as chrisinajar|work | |
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| 17:02 | FuriousGeorge has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:02 | <FuriousGeorge> hey all
| |
| 17:03 | is there a preferred vnc sever to use with ltsp?
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| 17:04 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:06 | <FuriousGeorge> i need some means to share the desktop of a logged in user on a client
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| 17:09 | twinprism has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:11 | <Lns> FuriousGeorge: iTALC is pretty much the standard these days for LTSP
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| 17:16 | <Eeyore-Jr> how does ltsp comply with CIPA for schools and libraries?
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| 17:16 | <Appiah> CIPA as in?
| |
| 17:16 | (means several things to me)
| |
| 17:16 | <Eeyore-Jr> Child Internet Protection Act of the USA
| |
| 17:17 | <Appiah> oh
| |
| 17:17 | <Eeyore-Jr> the ablity to block pron sites, chat, im, etc.
| |
| 17:17 | <Appiah> Well since im not in the USA
| |
| 17:17 | well I dont see how blocking websites is a ltsp thing really
| |
| 17:17 | you can block sites in Linux
| |
| 17:17 | like any other OS
| |
| 17:18 | I mean dont your firewall handle that kind of thing?
| |
| 17:23 | <Lns> Eeyore-Jr: Appiah is right - LTSP has nothing to do with content filtering, it's a thin-client architecture that sits on top of an existing Linux distribution. You external tools to do content filtering.
| |
| 17:23 | Commonly a firewall/proxy does this task.
| |
| 17:24 | <Appiah> I do understand if you want the LTSP to act as a firewall (in a extreme small envoirment)
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| 17:24 | <Eeyore-Jr> ur right. i was thinking of edubuntu
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| 17:25 | <Appiah> still linux in general is capable of blocking sites
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| 17:25 | there are several firewall guis are available to do this
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| 17:25 | In a bigger network , I dont think it would be any problem
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| 17:26 | <Eeyore-Jr> yes, i'm aware of this and am implementing this
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| 17:26 | <johnny> people use dansguardian as well
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| 17:27 | * Lns hearts ipcop + advproxy + urlfilter | |
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| 18:13 | <jammcq> howdy
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| 18:16 | <FuriousGeorge> Lns: delayed thanks for the suggestion
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| 18:17 | <Lns> FuriousGeorge: no prob.
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| 18:27 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 18:40 | <Lns> !s
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| 18:40 | <ltspbot`> Lns: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 18:40 | <Lns> :p
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| 18:41 | <Ryan52> !r
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| 18:41 | <ltspbot`> Ryan52: Error: "r" is not a valid command.
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| 18:41 | <Ryan52> :(
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| 18:41 | * Ryan52 feels so left out :P | |
| 18:42 | <Lns> lol
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| 18:42 | !moo
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| 18:42 | <ltspbot`> Lns: Error: "moo" is not a valid command.
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| 18:43 | <Lns> aww, come on
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| 18:43 | <|Paradox|> moo: os: Microsoft Windows XP Professional - Service Pack 2 (5.1.2600) up: 3days 5hrs 46mins 44secs cpu: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ at 2204MHz (7% Load) gfx: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE 512MB res: 1280x960 32bit 72Hz ram: 3452/3454.48MB (99.93%) hdd: C:\ 4.98GB/217.7GB Free E:\ 21.98GB/372.61GB Free F:\ 8.2GB/111.79GB Free G:\ 6.82GB/465.76GB Free H:\ 1.92GB/74.13GB Free I:\ 909.87MB/6.26GB Free net: NVIDIA nForce Netwo
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| 18:43 | <Lns> uhh
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| 18:43 | huh?
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| 18:43 | * Lns runs | |
| 18:43 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 18:44 | <Lns> looks like |Paradox| has a lot of hdd space here on irc...i wonder why.....hmmmmmmm...
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| 19:02 | * Lns waves goodnight and happy Halloween to #ltsp | |
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| 20:22 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 20:37 | <stgraber> evening sbalneav
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| 20:39 | <jammcq> Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 20:39 | * vagrantc grumbles about a typo in the Debian plugins ... | |
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> i'm still getting the free errors on ldm 2.0.16
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| 21:12 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: that's warren's fault. I told him to test that that actually fixed it.
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| 21:12 | "21:10 < Ryan52> if that doesn't work, then just comment out the g_free that's removed in the patch, test to make sure that works, and be done with it."
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 21:13 | and nowhere to be seen, this warren.
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| 22:35 | <jammcq> davidj: well.... ?
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| 22:35 | <davidj> jammcq: I'll be coming.
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| 22:35 | <jammcq> AWESOME !!!!!
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| 22:35 | <davidj> I get into Logan at noon.
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| 22:35 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 22:35 | have you had any contact with Ragnar?
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| 22:36 | <davidj> I'll get a car. I haven't heard from Ragnar yet.
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| 22:36 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 22:36 | hey, don't forget your drivers license
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| 22:36 | <davidj> :)
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| 22:36 | <davidj> My flight out is at 6am Monday, I'm staying at one of the airport hotels.
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| 22:37 | ..Sunday night.
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| 22:37 | <jammcq> wow
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| 22:37 | 6am is awful early
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| 22:37 | well, I'm very glad you were able to arrange the travel so you can be there
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| 22:38 | <davidj> Yeah, well, $69 for a 6am flight that gets me home for lunch, or $2,355 for a 10am flight that get me home after supper.
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| 22:38 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 22:38 | I know that was a tough decision
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| 22:38 | <davidj> I still think the airlines are yanking my chain.
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| 22:38 | heh
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| 22:38 | I like my sleep.
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| 22:38 | <jammcq> and there are people who will actually pay 2355
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| 22:38 | <davidj> Obviously, or they wouldn't be asking it.
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| 22:39 | The worst part is that $2355 is for coach, first class is more.
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| 22:39 | plus you have to pay $20 for an exit-row seat.
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| 22:39 | <jammcq> I can fly to brazil first class for not much more than that
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| 22:39 | <davidj> I'll bet any of us could.
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| 22:40 | <jammcq> yep
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| 22:40 | <davidj> Right now, short internal flights are probably tough on the airlines' budgets.
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| 22:40 | <jammcq> so if you are gonna have a car, then maybe ragnar can ride with you, eh?
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| 22:40 | <davidj> ISTR that it takes more fuel to take off and get to altitude than it does to fly for two hours.
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| 22:41 | Yes, I figured I'd wait for Ragnar.
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| 22:41 | Any idea when his flight gets in?
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| 22:41 | I'd hate to say I'll wait, and then find out he gets in at midnight :)
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| 22:41 | <jammcq> seemed like he said around 3pm, but i'm not sure
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| 22:42 | <davidj> 3pm sounds like when he got in the last time.
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| 22:42 | <jammcq> I think he was coming from florida or NYC
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| 22:42 | i'm pretty sure he's already in the states
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| 22:42 | <davidj> but I don't know for sure that he's coming from the same place.
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| 22:42 | <jammcq> and there was some chance that his plans would change
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| 22:43 | <davidj> k
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| 22:48 | 'night, everyone
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