IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 February 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:20 | <perb> hi, have some serious trouble with my k12ltsp installation
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| 05:21 | my clients will freeze after a short while
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| 05:21 | i get to log in, and the desktop is showing, but then it freezes after approx. 5 secs
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| 05:22 | any ideas what to do?
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| 05:28 | <sepski> perb, any problems on the server itself ? how it' it's load ? my first guess is shoddy network.
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| 05:41 | <perb> no problems at the server itself
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| 05:42 | but got an gdm_slave_xioerror in the message log
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| 05:46 | also get an error on the server in the message log saying: server pcscd: winscard.c:219:SCardConnect() Reader E-Gate 0 0 Not Found
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| 06:03 | <perb> sepski: the network runs fine with edubuntu
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| 10:01 | <petre> morning al
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| 10:01 | all
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| 10:02 | I've got a client machine with builtin S3 video with 2MB video ram
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| 10:03 | X won't start, keeps giving me an 'out of scan range' error
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| 10:04 | is this just a monitor problem?
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| 10:15 | <AbuSami> hi all
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| 10:15 | hi petre
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| 10:16 | hi dm
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| 10:17 | <petre> hi AbuSami
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| 10:18 | <AbuSami> can we discuss something
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| 10:20 | petre ?!
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| 10:25 | <petre> sorry, stepped away for a moment
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| 10:25 | what's up?
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| 10:27 | <AbuSami> I did you every heared about mille-xterm
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| 10:27 | peter ,
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| 10:27 | http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9097
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| 10:28 | <petre> yeah, I think it's some folks up in Quebec doing 'remote display with thin clients' kinda stuff
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| 10:28 | similar to ltsp, but separate
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| 10:28 | <AbuSami> yeah,
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| 10:29 | can you help me about
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| 10:29 | they are talking about 1000 clients
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| 10:29 | <petre> right, not quite sure how they're doing it, though
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| 10:30 | unless they're using really big hardware
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| 10:30 | <AbuSami> I don't have enough resources
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| 10:30 | <petre> messages from them occassionally appear on the ltsp mailing list
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| 10:30 | what are you trying to do?
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| 10:30 | <AbuSami> do you think !
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| 10:31 | I want to scale out numbers of supported clients
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| 10:31 | is this possible ?
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| 10:31 | <petre> how many clients per server do you have now?
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| 10:32 | <AbuSami> I'm using DELL , 1G , P4, it holds 7 clients
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| 10:32 | <petre> sounds about right
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| 10:32 | you could probably get to 10 clients depending on the apps the users are running
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| 10:33 | <petre> if you use a lighter weight desktop than gnome or kde, you might get a few more clients
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| 10:33 | <AbuSami> hmm, normal applications, OpenOffice, QCad..
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| 10:33 | not that heavy one
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| 10:33 | <petre> rule of thumb is 100mb ram per client
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| 10:34 | usually don't need that much, but if you go by that, you won't overload the server
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| 10:34 | <AbuSami> do you have any idea to do this !
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| 10:34 | <petre> 1000s of clients?
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| 10:34 | <AbuSami> yeah, they are talking about this number, read the site http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9097
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| 10:34 | <petre> QCad might be graphically intensive
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| 10:35 | yeah, I remember reading the LJ article (been a subscriber many years)
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| 10:35 | <AbuSami> hmm
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| 10:36 | about QCad , rarley used, OpenOffice widely
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| 10:36 | <petre> If you look at the diagram in the article, you'll see they're using clusters of servers
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| 10:36 | <AbuSami> yeah,
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| 10:36 | <petre> some for display, some for apps, etc.
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| 10:36 | <AbuSami> it seems nice
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| 10:37 | <petre> I don't think it's 1000s of clients on a single box
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| 10:37 | You can scale up to this by dedicating apps to specific servers
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| 10:37 | <AbuSami> no, they said that based on cluster
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| 10:37 | <petre> Largo, Florida does this.
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| 10:37 | One app per server
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| 10:37 | <AbuSami> what he did
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| 10:37 | how this could be ?
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| 10:38 | <petre> The got their per desktop memory down to 13MB
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| 10:38 | <AbuSami> waw.. great
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| 10:38 | <petre> on terminal server, but remember it was running no apps like OOo or anything, just dekstop
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| 10:39 | <AbuSami> hmm.
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| 10:39 | <petre> If OOo, say, is your biggest use and memory consumer, install that on a separate machine
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| 10:39 | have it NFS mount the /home from the LTSP server
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| 10:40 | then give user an icon that calls 'ssh appserver ooo' and ooo will run on the app server rather than the ltsp server
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| 10:40 | you could do this with each app
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| 10:40 | <AbuSami> very goof idea
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| 10:40 | good *
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| 10:40 | <petre> if you have multiple servers, ldap really helps centralize authentication
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| 10:41 | but you can start small with just one app server
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| 10:41 | <AbuSami> you mean, server for LTSP ( DHCP,TFTP.. ) and the another one for application server for each application
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| 10:42 | <petre> keep the IDs & PWs in sync by using rsync to copy passwd, groups, and shadow over to app server
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| 10:42 | <AbuSami> very nice and effective idea
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| 10:42 | <petre> yes
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| 10:42 | simple, too
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| 10:42 | <AbuSami> yes
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| 10:42 | I will try it
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| 10:43 | <petre> although K12ltsp's smbldap installer script is pretty easy from what I've read; haven't tried it.
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| 10:43 | bbiam
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| 10:43 | <AbuSami> I was thinking so far about cluster it self ( OpenMosix )
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| 10:44 | I use LTSP 4.2, I never tried K12
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| 10:44 | to get one side cluster pool and intermediate LTSP server and another side Clients pool
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| 10:45 | peter ?
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| 10:45 | petre ! sorry
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| 12:44 | <erdinc> hi everyone
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| 15:17 | <gmanic> ltsp 4.1 on ubuntu does not work for me because: rc.localdev fails with *''SERVER = 192.xx.xxx.x command not found* its a double quotation mark at the beginning. seems to me like the eval `getlstcfg -a`in rc.localdev does not correctly parse the line SERVER = 192.xx.xxx.x. hints?
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| 15:19 | <jammcq> did you edit the /etc/ltsp.conf file? or the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf file ?
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| 15:20 | <gmanic> just to match the correct adresses. but it fails no matter what i have first after [default]. it always gets the two single quotation marks when i run getlstcfg.
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| 15:21 | <jammcq> why do you have ANY quotation marks ?
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| 15:21 | you shouldn't need them
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| 15:21 | <gmanic> i dont know. i do not have any in the lts.cfg. they show up with getltscfg and eval of course bails out.
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| 15:22 | the lts.conf shows in that particular line only
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| 15:22 | SERVER = 192.168.178.99
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| 15:22 | nothing else.
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| 15:24 | <cliebow> gmanic:erase it with vim and retype..it would work for me but i never make any spelling errors..so i dont have to
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| 15:25 | <jammcq> gmanic: show me a couple of lines leading upto that SERVER line
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| 15:25 | <gmanic> as for me. i'll take nano, though.
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| 15:25 | [Default]
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| 15:25 | SERVER = 192.168.178.99
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| 15:27 | and this is the output (ok, not the client, but the same happens there):
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| 15:27 | root@server:/opt/ltsp/i386/etc# ../bin/getltscfg -a -c lts.conf
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| 15:27 | ''SERVER="192.168.178.99"
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| 15:27 | the two quotations at the beginning are two single quot. marks.
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| 15:28 | <jammcq> hmm, i'm thinking youv'e got some control chars embedded in the file. there's no reason that getltscfg would insert any extra chars in there
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| 15:31 | <cliebow> jammcq: did you look at thoe packet captures?anything jump out at you?'
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| 15:31 | <gmanic> ok, i'll delete including the [default] and retype. be back in a min.
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| 15:32 | <jammcq> cliebow: sorry, I haven't looked at it
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| 15:32 | <gmanic> now, the file starts with [default] and the next line is that SERVER def. output reads the same. two single quot. marks causing eval to bail out.
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| 15:33 | <jammcq> gmanic: do this:
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| 15:33 | od -x -a lts.conf
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| 15:34 | and paste the results
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| 15:36 | <gmanic> pastebot does not work for me, shall i paste here?
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| 15:36 | <jammcq> yeah, should be short
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| 15:36 | <gmanic> 0000000 645b 6665 7561 746c 0a5d 2020 2020 2020
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| 15:36 | [ d e f a u l t ] nl sp sp sp sp sp sp
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| 15:36 | 0000020 2020 4553 5652 5245 2020 2020 2020 2020
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| 15:36 | sp sp S E R V E R sp sp sp sp sp sp sp sp
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| 15:36 | 0000040 2020 2020 3d20 3120 3239 312e 3836 312e
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| 15:36 | sp sp sp sp sp = sp 1 9 2 . 1 6 8 . 1
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| 15:37 | <jammcq> heh, oops :)
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| 15:40 | <cliebow> ok i give up..what does it tell you
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| 15:40 | <jammcq> tells me he got kicked for flooding :)
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| 15:40 | the file looks fine
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| 15:40 | <cliebow> heh.i see it now
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| 15:51 | <gmanic> sorry, my irc got mixed up somehow. anything on the paste output?
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| 15:51 | <cliebow> jhammcq says looks fine
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| 15:52 | <gmanic> hm. what else could cause the two single quotations marks, then?
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| 16:07 | <jammcq> what happens if you run the thin client?
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| 16:07 | running getltscfg from the server isn't how it was intended to be run
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| 16:09 | <vagrantc> jammcq: speaking of getltscfg ... wouldn't it be faster to output 'export FOO="bar"' instead of 'FOO="bar"\nexport FOO' ?
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| 16:09 | <jammcq> vagrantc: 'export FOO=bar' isn't supported on all shells
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| 16:10 | although it's probably supported on the shells that we care about
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc> jammcq: it's supported by all POSIX shells ...
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| 16:10 | <jammcq> but.... 'export' is built into the shell, so does it really matter?
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc> actually, i='m not certain it's supported by all posix shells ...
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| 16:10 | <jammcq> I have a hunch you would never notice a speed difference between the two ways of doing it
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> yeah, probably not.
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| 16:11 | <jammcq> I know for certain it's not supported on SCO, although who really cares about that anymore?
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> it's supported by bash, dash and posh ...
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| 16:14 | jammcq: and don't you forget what the L in LTSP stands for :P
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| 16:14 | <jammcq> heh
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| 16:14 | good point
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| 16:15 | I wrote getltscfg about 8 years ago, when I was still doing an awful lot of work on SCO Openserver
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| 16:36 | <cliebow> posh.there is a new onr
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| 16:37 | <vagrantc> cliebow: it basically aims to be a plain ol POSIX compliant "sh".
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| 16:48 | <cliebow> 8~)
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| 16:49 | gogleing
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| 16:49 | crikey!
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| 19:08 | <petre> jammcq: ping?
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| 19:15 | <DigitalNinja> LTSP 5 doesn't have a lot of documentation. Can you install this from scratch?
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| 19:15 | I'm on Ubuntu Dapper
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| 19:20 | <cliebow> at the risk of being slapped up side of the head....sudo apt-get ltsp-server-standalone
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| 19:20 | then ltsp-build-client
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| 19:21 | <DigitalNinja> I was looking at that
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| 19:21 | However, I didn't see any audio support
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| 19:22 | local device support required fixing and or patching a few things
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| 19:22 | <cliebow> coming in feisty i understand.working the bugs out of pulseaudio
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| 19:23 | <DigitalNinja> can I download and install 4.2 and get local device and audio support?
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| 19:24 | <petre> cliebow: do you know if sound will work better w/feisty, or is it just the groundwork being laid?
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| 19:24 | that it, the apps have to be built for pulseaudio, don't they?
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| 19:25 | s/it/is/
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| 19:25 | <DigitalNinja> petre: What distro are you using?
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| 19:25 | <petre> fc5 & 6, k12ltsp
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| 19:26 | <DigitalNinja> Do you get audio and local device support?
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| 19:26 | <petre> ltsp 4.2
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| 19:26 | lda=yes
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| 19:26 | sound=mostly
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| 19:26 | 75%
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| 19:26 | or so
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| 19:26 | <DigitalNinja> What's with "sound=mostly"?
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| 19:26 | That doesn't "sound" good
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| 19:26 | <petre> sound in mplayer with Quicktime doesn't work, for me anyway
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| 19:26 | <cliebow> my sound works..i think..i dont have but one clienr with a sound card..
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| 19:27 | <petre> Flash sound works
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| 19:27 | <DigitalNinja> I need flash sound
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| 19:27 | <petre> that works now
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| 19:27 | <DigitalNinja> good
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| 19:27 | It looks like I need to get ltsp 4.2 and install that from the LTSP package
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| 19:28 | <petre> apt-get is your friend
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| 19:28 | <DigitalNinja> petre: It is but will I get audio and local device support
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| 19:28 | <petre> if you install 4.2, you should
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| 19:29 | that's not to say you're guaranteed to not have trouble
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| 19:29 | <DigitalNinja> I've used the Ubuntu Dapper packag but I don't think it supports local devices or audio. I've never tired it though
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| 19:29 | <petre> try it;
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| 19:29 | <DigitalNinja> do you know if there are any instructions for this
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| 19:29 | <petre> for lda support, there's a checklist on the wiki for troubleshooting it
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| 19:30 | <DigitalNinja> I'll take a look
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| 19:30 | <cliebow> i have some edgy installs..but nnever really tried
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| 19:31 | <DigitalNinja> I'm wondering if the ssh stuff will get in the way. You do know that the client connects to the server over ssh?
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| 19:31 | <petre> DigitalNinja, there's a Documentation section on ltsp.org, that covers installing 4.2
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| 19:31 | plus the wiki
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| 19:31 | <DigitalNinja> I'll check it out
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| 19:31 | It would be nice to use the Dapper package and then tweek it for audio and local device support
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| 19:32 | I'm not sure if the Dapper package is 4.1 or 4.2 though
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| 19:32 | <petre> it's do-able; just try it and worry about the problems when the come up, 'cause they might not
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| 19:32 | cliebow, you any good with scan rates?
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| 19:33 | <DigitalNinja> Then you need to know what release or revision
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| 19:33 | <petre> DigitalNinja: I don't know
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| 19:33 | <DigitalNinja> I guess I need to get off my butt and just jump in
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| 19:34 | <petre> That's one nice thing about K12ltsp: the ltsp bits are already included
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| 19:34 | including lda
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| 19:34 | and sound mostly
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| 19:34 | <cliebow> petre:not so hot..for an oddball monitor you mean?
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| 19:34 | <DigitalNinja> I'll take a look at edubuntu. That has LTSP in it
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| 19:34 | <petre> no, video
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| 19:35 | got a P166 with a S3 video
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| 19:35 | X fails for everything except 640x480
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| 19:35 | <cliebow> wasnt there something on wiki about s3 and the old 3drivers?
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| 19:35 | <petre> I've used the monitor for 1024x768 before
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| 19:36 | hmm...
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| 19:36 | * petre goes to wiki | |
| 19:36 | <cliebow> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/VideoCards#S3_and_S3Virge_cards
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| 19:38 | <petre> ah, that looks good
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| 19:38 | the machine only has 2mb video ram; does setting it to 4096 still work, do you know?
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| 19:41 | guess I'll just try it...
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| 19:43 | <cliebow> best i can say is perhaps 8~)
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| 19:45 | <petre> I think that page is outdated: I get a 'file not found' error if I set the xserver to xf86_s3
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| 19:45 | I think X is detecting the video correctly
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| 19:45 | I just can't get any resolution above 640x480
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| 19:45 | * petre scratches head | |
| 19:46 | <petre> with 2mb video, I'd think I'd get at least 8x6
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| 19:47 | ironically, the point with this client is to show how *easy* it is to use old hardware for clients ;-)
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| 19:52 | okay, using the vesa driver, I can get 800x600; go figure
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| 20:04 | <cliebow> heh
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> ubuntu edgy certainly supports local devices and audio. pretty sure dapper supports audio.
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| 20:06 | * vagrantc is a little slow on the response | |
| 20:08 | <vagrantc> and edubuntu should be a pretty easy way to get ltsp installed
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| 20:10 | look in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/ for various bits of documentation
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| 20:55 | <rjune> who won the bowl?
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| 21:09 | <cliebow> indy whooped chicago
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| 21:14 | <kaos01> should an ltsp server be 32 bit if its supporting 32bit clients ?
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| 21:15 | <vagrantc> 64 bit servers should be able to host 32 bit clients without troubles.
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| 21:15 | other way around is trickier
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| 21:17 | * vagrantc says this having never touched a modern 64 bit machine | |
| 21:18 | <michaelm64> I've just installed K12LTSP 6.0 on a PIII server in my office, replacing one running K12LTSP 4.1. My thin clients run fine, but my two Macs that rely upon the server for internet routing are not connecting. I'm assuming something in my service configuration needs to be turned on, but don't know what. Any assistance gratefully appreciated.
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| 21:21 | Well, thanks anyway.
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