IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 September 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:04 | <johnny> neither..
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| 00:04 | dont' see many centos folks.. mostly ubuntu,debian,fedora,opensuse
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| 00:04 | many of them use rdesktop tho
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| 00:06 | <cyberorg> warren, pong?
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| 00:06 | <warren> cyberorg: see ltsp-developer
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| 00:07 | <cyberorg> yeah saw that, sounds reasonable to make that request
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| 00:10 | you can mention that if it was open sourced we would have sent patches instead of request ;)
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| 00:12 | <johnny> guess we just have to get swfdec better or something
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| 00:12 | <cyberorg> johnny, that was what i was typing :P
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| 00:13 | johnny, not better, it would serve our purpose as probably it's missing feature would be flv playback if any
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| 00:13 | <johnny> warren, look at how fedora does it where?
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| 00:13 | where do you do this hostname thing?
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| 00:13 | <warren> johnny: hmm
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| 00:14 | johnny: grep ltsp-trunk for hostname, you'll find it
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| 00:14 | <johnny> btw.. i see you have something like this
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| 00:14 | <warren> cyberorg: can you get official support from someone at suse or novell?
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| 00:14 | <johnny> [ "$ARCH" = "i586" ] && ARCH=i386
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| 00:14 | [ "$ARCH" = "i686" ] && ARCH=i386
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| 00:14 | <warren> cyberorg: somebody that sounds official
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| 00:14 | johnny: yes, the common arch plugin is not common at all, nobody uses it.
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| 00:15 | <johnny> no.. this is your ltsp-client-launch
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| 00:15 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:15 | <johnny> not setarch
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| 00:15 | we use something like this
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| 00:15 | ARCH=$(uname -m | sed -e 's:i[3-6]86:x86:' -e 's:x86_64:amd64:' -e 's:parisc:hppa:')
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| 00:15 | <cyberorg> warren, suse has a tie up with adobe, we ship flash-player on official dvd media, ill have to find who
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| 00:15 | <warren> johnny: your version looks cleaner, but mine runs faster.
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| 00:16 | johnny: less pipes and forks
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| 00:16 | <johnny> yeah.. i'm sure it does.. but not fast enough for me to care atm
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| 00:16 | <warren> cyberorg: I don't care, we only need someone official sounding to agree to co-sign when I send this as an official request.
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| 00:16 | <cyberorg> johnny, saw how i handled that in the script i posted?
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| 00:16 | <warren> "Foo Bar, President of Something, Novell"
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| 00:16 | <johnny> and this ?
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| 00:16 | TFTPPATH="/ltsp/${ARCH}/lts.conf"
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| 00:17 | what do you think about getting it from / ?
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| 00:17 | as a fallback
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| 00:17 | hmm.. i think imma put that option in my settings for ltsp-client-setup
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| 00:17 | <warren> johnny: the way Ubuntu/Debian and Fedora does the tftp and lots of the kernel image stuff is entirely different
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| 00:17 | entirely different set of scripts
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| 00:18 | I really hate the way they do it
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| 00:18 | and it contains lots of debianisms
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| 00:18 | I also don't like set -e
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| 00:18 | also my scripts are way simpler
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| 00:18 | and I'm missing a few features as a result
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| 00:18 | <johnny> yeah.. i'm cutting some stuff
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| 00:18 | i think imma cut hosts.ltsp
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| 00:18 | i don't really see the value
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| 00:18 | am i missing something?
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| 00:19 | <warren> is hosts.ltsp their thing?
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| 00:19 | I don't know if I use it
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| 00:19 | <johnny> i think it's a throwback to ltsp4
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| 00:19 | <warren> johnny: the idea earlier is that if we don't like something upstream, write your own equivalent and later we work on making things into the common-functions files
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| 00:19 | johnny: I already redid some of their stuff to go into common files
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| 00:20 | <johnny> i'm still just working with their stuff
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| 00:20 | and stealing your tftp code
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| 00:20 | <warren> which tftp code?
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| 00:20 | <johnny> in ltsp-client-launch
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| 00:20 | <warren> ltsp-client-launch contains a great pile of lazy on my part
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| 00:20 | <johnny> lol
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| 00:20 | <warren> I need to be doing lots of that earlier
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| 00:20 | <johnny> that's why i'm sticking with ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup
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| 00:21 | <warren> ltsp-client* is the pile of debianisms and set -e that I hate.
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| 00:21 | <johnny> where ltsp-client depends on ltsp-client-setup, and ltsp-client-setup happens as early as it can
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| 00:21 | <warren> I'm likely going to split ltsp-client-setup into ltsp-client-setup-early
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| 00:21 | <johnny> nano says ..
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| 00:21 | [ "set -e" not found ]
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| 00:22 | <warren> oh
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| 00:22 | hm
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| 00:22 | i haven't looked at it for a while
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| 00:22 | I gave up on it around January
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| 00:22 | <johnny> i'm about to commit some updates to mine
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| 00:22 | <warren> there is another potential issue
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| 00:22 | their initrd grabs lts.conf via tftp
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| 00:23 | mine grabs lts.conf after initrd
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| 00:23 | I don't think I'm missing any options as a result
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| 00:23 | <johnny> no, it isn't
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| 00:23 | hmm.. modules could be loaded earlier?
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| 00:25 | i'm not finding any of that code warren
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| 00:25 | <warren> johnny: what modules?
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| 00:25 | johnny: I'm not loading any modules
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| 00:25 | manually at least
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| 00:26 | <johnny> i mean MODULES_xx
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| 00:26 | so.. where is this hostname stuff warren?
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| 00:27 | <warren> hm
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| 00:27 | hmmm
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| 00:27 | I don't support MODULES_xx options, but that sounds easy to implement
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| 00:28 | I haven't found a single case where it is needed though.
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| 00:28 | nobody copmlained about it
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| 00:29 | <johnny> i just based mine off the debian implementation.. but without most of the overhead, as gentoo init scripts are not like switch statements like debian's are
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| 00:31 | loca|host has quit IRC | |
| 00:31 | <warren> johnny: client/chroot-setup/k12linux/010-etc-hosts
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| 00:31 | johnny: horrible horrible hack that auto-configs a fake hostname on each client
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| 00:32 | johnny: I'm going to make this conditional to look for a real hostname first, and fallback to fake if it doens't have one.
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| 00:32 | johnny: nobody else is using chroot-setup yet, but you can write your own handy plugins there.
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| 00:34 | johnny: does Gentoo have aufs or unionfs?
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| 00:35 | <johnny> they use something like 127.0.0.1 $HOSTNAME
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| 00:35 | err 127.0.0.2
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| 00:35 | gentoo has ebuilds for aufs available
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| 00:35 | <cyberorg> warren, next time if you need anything official from novell/suse just cc zonker too, he is the right person for that
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| 00:35 | <johnny> it's not integrated into our gentoo-sources kernel
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| 00:35 | <cyberorg> i've forwarded your mail to him
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| 00:36 | <warren> cyberorg: thx
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| 00:36 | johnny: good, about not integrated
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| 00:36 | johnny: bad to integrate things that have no chance of going upstream
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| 00:36 | <johnny> squashfs is patched in
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| 00:36 | <warren> squashfs is actually heading upstream
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| 00:36 | RH is rewriting parts of it
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| 00:37 | <johnny> yeah.. gentoo is great about focusing on upstream
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| 00:37 | except during hal.. when we couldn't get them upstreamed for a few releases
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| 00:37 | <warren> johnny: squashfs is also a lot safer in being entirely self contained, read-only and without overlay problems to worry about.
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| 00:37 | <johnny> now they all have
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| 00:37 | <cyberorg> stgraber, ping
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| 00:38 | <johnny> warren, .. this is our patched kernel
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| 00:38 | http://dev.gentoo.org/~dsd/genpatches/trunk/2.6.26/
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| 00:38 | err patches
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| 00:39 | that is the entirety of the patches of gentoo-sources
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| 00:39 | <warren> johnny: yeah, that's a lot less patches than us
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| 00:40 | <johnny> we offer git-sources,vanilla-sources,suspend2-sources, etc
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| 00:40 | within the portage tree
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| 00:40 | <warren> johnny: although 95% of our patches are heading to upstream in one form or another, since we have a massive kernel team pushing stuff all the time or maintaining entire subsystems
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| 00:40 | some of our other patches wont make it upstream because Linus hates it
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| 00:40 | <cyberorg> johnny, did i mention that our chief kernel hacker gkh is also one of the gentoo kernel maintainer?
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| 00:40 | <warren> but we do it for security purposes
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| 00:40 | like most of execshield
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| 00:40 | <johnny> cyberorg, i knew that
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| 00:41 | <warren> I'm curious why nobody else ships execshield
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| 00:41 | <cyberorg> :)
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| 00:41 | <johnny> cyberorg, gentoo gets udev releases VERY QUICKLY
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| 00:41 | <warren> execshield has proven itself to be problem free for many years now.
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| 00:41 | really low effort way of adding lots of security
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| 00:42 | <johnny> warren, of course we have many other gentoo uses who maintain their own kernels, and some have grown communities around them
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| 00:42 | <warren> yikes
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| 00:42 | I guess in our case we just beat our users until they quit, or submit things upstream.
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| 00:43 | We've been getting softer lately in that
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| 00:43 | <johnny> well some of it is stuff like unionfs
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| 00:43 | that will never make it upstream, but are still useful to people doing real work right now
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| 00:43 | other.. is stuff like reiserfs
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| 00:44 | yuck
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| 00:44 | but i liked using con koliva's sources
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| 00:44 | been awhile since my computer has felt that fast
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| 00:44 | the new scheduler sucks
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| 00:44 | at least by default..
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| 00:44 | <warren> you sure it is the scheduler?
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| 00:45 | Linus ripped out a piece of the VM in 2.6.26 that made it slower for everyone
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| 00:45 | forcing everyone to rewrite it properly
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| 00:45 | hasn't hit upstream yet
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| 00:45 | <johnny> and that hits when?
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| 00:45 | oh
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| 00:45 | <warren> I dunno
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| 00:45 | but that's an effective way to force something to get fixed
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| 00:45 | <johnny> problems have existed since 2.6.23
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| 00:45 | <warren> it really hurt real time everything
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| 00:46 | earlier versions of Ingo's new scheduler had many problems
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| 00:46 | but it's been awesome for me in 2.6.25
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| 00:46 | 2.6.26 is back to badness
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| 00:47 | <johnny> hmm.. let's hope it gets better.
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| 00:48 | <warren> heh, I'm playing a 1920x1080p video over the network to a thin client
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| 00:48 | it is a little jerky
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| 00:54 | <Nubae1> warren: where can I find ltsp installation instructions for Fedora?
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| 00:54 | Nubae1 is now known as Nubae | |
| 00:55 | <warren> Nubae: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/
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| 00:55 | <Nubae> warren: thanks
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| 00:55 | <warren> Nubae: upgrade ltsp-server manually from the announcement repo before doing it
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| 00:55 | Nubae: the official repo didn't get this latest version yet
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| 00:56 | <Nubae> its for general ltsp documentation, I may not install just yet...
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| 00:57 | of course the installation parts need to be distro specific
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| 00:57 | but hopefully not much more
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| 00:58 | <warren> Nubae: I would really point upstream doc readers at the distro's own docs instead of duplicating stuff that will quickly become out of date
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| 00:58 | Nubae: my own docs need rewriting entirely
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| 01:04 | <Nubae> right, well, thats where I hopefully come in... I'm not pointing, but including the content that's there in terms of installation
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| 01:04 | the other stuff is non distro specific
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| 01:04 | I'm uploading to LTSP 5 documentation on launchpad...
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| 01:05 | and trying to keep it as upto date as possible, from what I understand, only Suse really works slighlty differenty, everything else can be put under common documentation
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| 01:06 | it'll be in docbook format, so hopefully u can use it to pick out what u want
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| 01:12 | <warren> Nubae: please remove any mention of ltsp-server-initialize
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| 01:12 | Nubae: I'm going to remove it from our package
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| 01:12 | it is too broken
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| 01:17 | <Nubae> ok done
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| 01:18 | if there's anything else, let me know... think of os me as documentation man for the time being :-)
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| 01:18 | <warren> Nubae: cool, are you on ltsp-developer?
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| 01:18 | Nubae: what is your name there?
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| 01:18 | <Nubae> ltsp-developer mailing list?
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| 01:20 | <Nubae> am now at least.... was really just on buntu's ltsp mailing lists... Name on launchpad is Dvanassche
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| 01:31 | <kwak> johnny. anyway, i think rdesktop works almost the same in different distros. My question about it is how to set it up in the lts.conf
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| 01:31 | i have screen_02 = rdesktop
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| 01:31 | rdp_server = ip_address
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| 01:31 | rdp_options = -u username -d domain.local -a 16
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| 01:32 | but i only get a grey screen with the X pointer. no login screen for W2K3 TS
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| 01:32 | <johnny> as i said.. i've never used it
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| 01:32 | i don't know a single thing about it.. and i hope i never have to :)
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| 01:34 | <kwak> np. i seldom use it anyway. just for the sake of configuring it. i also have parse error problem in the lts.conf
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| 01:34 | <Nubae> johnny: lol
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| 01:34 | <kwak> what distro are you using?
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| 01:36 | <johnny> ubuntu and gentoo
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| 01:36 | <johnny> i don't think you should have spaces before and after the =
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| 01:42 | <kwak> i tried ubuntu at the beginning of this month. it was so slow (client)
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| 01:42 | running out of time, so decided to install centos/k12ltsp
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| 01:42 | anyway, we'll check the configuration again.
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| 01:44 | <Pascal_1> bonjour
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| 01:53 | <kwak> anyone using fedora 9 with ltsp5
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| 02:15 | <cilkay> Yes! I have a thin client booted from Ubuntu Hardy.
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| 02:16 | <cyberorg> kwak, use easy-ltsp to generate lts.conf, it has rdesktop configuration too, you can copy paste from example it generates
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| 02:16 | kwak, packages here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/server:/ltsp/
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| 02:16 | <cilkay> I made my life more complicated than it needed to be by attempting to use the dhcp server on IPCop. I just disabled that one and enabled the one in the Ubuntu and the client booted.
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| 02:18 | I was reading the installation notes on the Fedora LTSP wiki. I like the idea of creating a bridged subnet by default to avoid exactly this kind of issue. As long as the subnet doesn't clash with an existing one, it's a drop-in solution.
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| 02:18 | <kwak> cyberborg, thanks
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| 02:18 | <cilkay> Not to figure out what this "Client not authorized to connect business is." I recall reading about that somewhere.
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| 02:22 | ltsp-update-sshkeys; ltsp-update-image
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| 02:24 | It's aligning flux capacitors now.
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| 02:26 | And there was dancing in the streets!
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| 02:27 | I have my first LTSP client booted.
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| 02:27 | It seemed to boot faster than off the local hard disk. Strange.
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| 02:28 | It's telling me Firefox is already running. How can that be when this is the first time I'm launching it?
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| 02:29 | <johnny> cuz you picked a user you're logged in as?
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| 02:29 | and running firefox on
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| 02:29 | ?
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| 02:29 | <cilkay> Aha. That's it.
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| 02:29 | I only have the one user.
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| 02:29 | <johnny> make a new one
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| 02:29 | easy enough
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| 02:29 | <cilkay> sure
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| 02:29 | <johnny> assign computer names as user names
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| 02:29 | err I*
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| 02:30 | makes autologin a breeze to setup, or that guest login
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| 02:30 | <cilkay> That won't work in the target environment, which is a school.
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| 02:31 | Each student has their own login.
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| 02:31 | <johnny> yeah, my env is internet cafe... no own login..
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| 02:31 | <cilkay> Assuming we keep the Windows Server around, I could try authenticating from it since it already has all staff and students.
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| 02:31 | <johnny> clear out the home environments every night
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| 02:32 | here's a note i learned recently
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| 02:32 | when you make em accessible via ldap auth.. please makre sure they are like ubuntu's default group setup
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| 02:32 | where every user is in their own group, otherwise you have problems with seeing other people's devices
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| 02:32 | <cilkay> Good tip. Thanks.
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| 02:33 | <kwak> hi, i got a dependency error for easy-ltsp, it's looking for mono. I'm installing it in centos 5.2
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| 02:33 | <johnny> well install mono?
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| 02:37 | <kwak> yes, johnny, tried it. yum install mono
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| 02:38 | not found
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| 02:38 | <johnny> it's probably in a different repository
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| 02:38 | gonna have to go look that up
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| 02:40 | <kwak> k
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| 02:52 | <cilkay> How can I set the screen resolution on the client? It's actually set higher than on the server.
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| 02:53 | It works but it's not optimal.
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| 02:53 | <johnny> look in the lts-parameters.txt file
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| 02:53 | <cilkay> Can that be changed per client?
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| 02:53 | <johnny> it's in your chroot for now
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| 02:53 | yes
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| 02:53 | <cilkay> Good, thanks.
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| 04:19 | <Nubae> q-funk not around?
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| 04:19 | hmmm... have problems with thincan clients and hardy
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| 04:19 | probably geode related
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| 04:30 | <generalsnus> Heyas, where is the config file for users /home ? i want to make a shortcut on each users desktop..but i have no clue how
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| 04:42 | <johnny> create the launcher you want
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| 04:42 | and then just copy it in their Desktop..
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| 04:42 | that's it..
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| 05:44 | <generalsnus> in xubuntu when a user inserts a usb-drive, it mounts in /media/"username"/usbdisk how can i change this, so it mounts in the users home?
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| 06:02 | <stgraber> cyberorg: pong (sort of, I'm preparing to go to work)
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| 06:03 | <cyberorg> stgraber, improved script http://pastebin.com/d7dfca2c6
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| 06:03 | it reads stuff from config files
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| 06:06 | <wigwam> hi
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| 06:06 | please, how to set splash screen for thin clients?
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| 06:06 | <generalsnus> in xubuntu when a user inserts a usb-drive, it mounts in /media/"username"/usbdisk how can i change this, so it mounts in the users home?
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| 06:08 | <laga> generalsnus: patience is a virtue, please don't ask the same question twice. if someone knows the answer, they will tell you
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| 06:15 | <stgraber> cyberorg: hmm, ok. I'm just not entirely sure why you would need a .ini config file. Any specific reason ?
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| 06:16 | <cyberorg> stgraber, /etc/sysconfig/ica is used to change default behavior
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| 06:18 | <cyberorg> stgraber, this is what we use http://pastebin.com/df4c3b4e
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| 06:18 | admins dont have to mess with different config files or launch scripts to change things
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| 06:25 | <stgraber> ok, bookmarked those two. I'll have a look if we have enough people asking to implement/test that in Intrepid, we are now past feature freeze so it'd be up to our release manager as to if it's a new feature or not.
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| 06:27 | <tsurc> when updating the sshkeys on ubuntu so allow the clients to logon how do I add keys for secondary servers?
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| 06:28 | <cyberorg> stgraber, it is a "bugfix" ;)
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| 06:28 | <tsurc> I've already tried the instructions in the edubuntu handbook but it doesnt work
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| 07:23 | <coolio> struggling to restart dhcp any tips
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| 07:31 | :'(
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| 08:17 | <wigwam> please, how to set video modes for thin clients?
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| 08:17 | something like vga in grub
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| 08:19 | <cyberorg> wigwam, see lts-parameters.txt
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| 08:22 | <wigwam> cyberorg: thanks, but i have to set it earlier... in order to use bootsplash
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| 08:22 | <cyberorg> wigwam, vga=791
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| 08:22 | <wigwam> cyberorg: kernel parameter in pxelinux conf?
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| 08:23 | <cyberorg> wigwam, pxelinux.conf/default
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| 08:24 | <wigwam> thanks
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| 08:43 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:43 | ogra: FYI, I've got about 1/2 of a patch worked out for the pw expiry for hardy, I'll finish that up today, get it to you.
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| 09:02 | * ogra hugs sbalneav | |
| 09:02 | * cliebow cliebow blows kisses | |
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| 09:21 | <tsurc> This is going to sound crazy, but I need to change the gid of messagebus group on a dapper box, any idea how I'd do it without braking everything
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| 09:22 | cant get nis authenticated users to load usb memory sticks because they dont appear to be members of the fuse group.
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| 09:28 | <Nubae> ahhh... no q-funk here?
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| 09:28 | anyone who can help with the thincans?
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| 09:28 | on hardy?
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| 09:35 | <Nubae> warren: is lts.conf in fedora also here: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/<arch>/lts.conf?
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| 09:38 | johnny: and gentoo?
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| 09:52 | <Nubae> is there somewhere a totally complete list of lts.conf variables for the very latest distributions?
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| 09:54 | <ogra> in the recent source tree
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| 10:20 | <warren> Nubae: yes
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| 10:33 | <Nubae> warren: right now the install instructions refer to Fedora 8, can that be updated to mention only 9?
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| 10:34 | <warren> Nubae: yes
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| 10:34 | <Nubae> k
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| 10:35 | * warren removes Fedora 8 and ltsp-server-initialize from fedora docs | |
| 10:36 | <Nubae> there is also this: ltsp-build-client If your server is running Fedora 9 but you want to build a Fedora 8 chroot, add --release=8 to the command.
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| 10:36 | is there any reason for someone to be building a fedora 8 chroot?
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| 10:39 | I shall add, this document assumes you have a working Fedora 9 insallation :-)
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| 10:39 | <warren> no
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| 10:39 | <bjohnson> hi. I'm trying to set up a new server for existing ltsp-4.2 clients (not pwoerful enough for ltsp 5) and am getting an error that I haven't seen before that I haven't been able to troubleshoot. Error is "nfs: server 192.168.0.5 not responding, still trying" after "Freeing ram used by initramfs"
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| 10:39 | <Nubae> no to a, or to b?
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| 10:39 | * ogra shakes his head about http://dev.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/build-instructions-linux | |
| 10:39 | <ogra> "Note: There is no working Chromium-based browser on Linux." ...
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| 10:39 | "Internally, our development platform has been a variant of Ubuntu"...
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| 10:40 | why the heck do they develop on linux but dont compile for it ...
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| 10:40 | tsk
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| 10:40 | <bjohnson> my nfs server is running and I can mount on another linux machine on the same subnet .. so shouldn't be general nfs or firewall problems
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| 10:40 | <rjune> Chromium? isn't that the a top down game?
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| 10:40 | <warren> It is like Ubuntu, but amoral. Not immoral. Just business.
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| 10:40 | <Nubae> ogra: lol, xo teams were all flustered abotu that too
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| 10:41 | <ogra> warren, well i heard they also do the windows development on ubuntu ...
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| 10:41 | <Nubae> shit google does the same...
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| 10:41 | <ogra> but if you develop on a linux anyway, why the heck dont you build a linux version along ? ...
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| 10:41 | <laga> support?
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| 10:42 | <warren> ogra: same reason Adobe hates doing linux development, a lot less standardization
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| 10:42 | <ogra> warren, well, google is a but different ...
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| 10:43 | <Nubae> it is sometimes, and sometimes not...
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| 10:43 | <laga> yeah.. read the chrome EULA
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| 10:43 | <ogra> adobe lives mostly from their windows software ... google does web stuff
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| 10:43 | <Nubae> there was no build for gears for example... + it was broken, only way was to install .xpi, which left users many versions behind
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| 10:44 | while windows et al all have latest builds
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| 10:44 | <warren> Google updates apps for Linux like Google Earth
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| 10:44 | <ogra> indeed
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| 10:44 | <warren> although it seems they use winelib to do it...
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| 10:44 | <Nubae> there ya go... its always a halfass attempt
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| 10:44 | <ogra> and google runs most of their office desktops on linux
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| 10:45 | <Nubae> like the support it... but only half
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| 10:45 | <ogra> they have a close realtionship to linux stuff
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| 10:45 | <Nubae> either u support something or u dont
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| 10:45 | <ogra> and are aware that there wouldnt be a www like we have today without it
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| 10:45 | <Nubae> they are the biggest funders of the olpc project
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| 10:45 | but they're apps don't work on the xos...
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| 10:45 | :-)
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| 10:46 | <ogra> well, their google searchbar doesnt run on the classmate either
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| 10:46 | though thats a diskspace issue :P
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| 10:49 | <Nubae> don't know if its because not enough people know linux or not enough developers know linux
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| 10:50 | <ogra> well, google certainly knows linux :)
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| 10:50 | <Nubae> heh, yeah...
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| 10:50 | <bjohnson> I think I've stumbled upon the right google search string to find the answer to my problem
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| 12:09 | <Lns> Can anyone make sense of this ~/.xsession-errors line when a user tries to start Firefox 3 while others are in it? I'm getting mucho complaints that *some* people can get on FF3, but after they get on, others cannot - this is the only thing I can find. "firefox: Fatal IO error 2 (No such file or directory) on X server localhost:21.0."
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| 12:11 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:12 | <cyberorg> Lns, try rm -rf ~/.mozilla
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| 12:14 | <Nubae> kinda drastic
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| 12:15 | <Lns> cyberorg: any reasoning behind that?
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| 12:15 | a lot of these users are brand new
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| 12:15 | <cyberorg> Lns, some stale socket, bad cache, bad settings etc
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| 12:16 | <Lns> ok.. i'll give that a whirl, thank you!
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| 12:16 | <cyberorg> Nubae, not really drastic as that is re created, settings would be lost though
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| 12:17 | <Lns> I've also got a TON of these in another users' errors file - this is a different user - (firefox:9463): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_hide: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed
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| 12:17 | <Nubae> right, still... if its shared... settings could be in /usr/lib/mozilla
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| 12:18 | or /usr/share/mozilla...
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| 12:18 | <cyberorg> Nubae, they just go back to default, so no harm done
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| 12:18 | <Nubae> might be better to reinstall firefox completelty
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| 12:18 | but thats even more drastic :-)
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| 12:18 | <Lns> ...that doesn't sound right =p
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| 12:19 | i've never had to re-install software on linux, ever
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| 12:21 | <Nubae> really? lucky you
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| 12:21 | <Lns> I don't see the point - unless there's file corruption
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| 12:21 | <Nubae> with multi user sessions so much can happen
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| 12:21 | good luck pinning it down
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| 12:21 | <Lns> there's no registry to muck-up ;) I've been using linux for 10+ years
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| 12:22 | actually 15+
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| 12:22 | multi-user shouldn't be a factor - everyone has their own config
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| 12:22 | I did have a global install of adblock running which might have screwed up every users' config
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| 12:22 | * Lns ducks | |
| 12:23 | <Nubae> damn... so if you know the issue...
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| 12:24 | I've been working with firefox for a while, and doing some multi user development work (extensions and plugins)
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| 12:24 | it gets ugly
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| 12:24 | easy to mess up sessions
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| 12:24 | like what you describe above :-)
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| 12:26 | * Nubae lols... reading through ubuntu ltsp intro guide Lns wrote... | |
| 12:26 | <Nubae> RTFM (Read The Fine Manual)
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| 12:26 | :-)
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| 12:26 | <Lns> ;) Nubae
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| 12:26 | Ancient Unix philosophy
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| 12:26 | <Nubae> written for teachers for sure...
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| 12:27 | <Lns> must be handed down to young grasshopper
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| 12:27 | <Nubae> in new form of course
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| 12:27 | in my day the F stood for something quite different
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| 12:27 | <Lns> it can go either way, depending on if you want the people to take offense or not ;)
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| 12:28 | <Nubae> u can always pull a battle star galactica and say fracking
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| 12:30 | <cyberorg> i like f for fubur
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| 12:30 | many manuals are beyond recognition
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| 12:31 | <Nubae> what's the second u stand for?
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| 12:31 | <cyberorg> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fubur
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| 12:32 | *fubar
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| 12:32 | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=4&term=fubar
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| 12:32 | <Nubae> ah :-) heh
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| 12:33 | <cyberorg> manuals i write are "fine" btw ;)
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| 12:33 | <Lns> GOD i love shell scripts...even though I am a complete n00b at it still
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| 12:34 | * Nubae goes out | |
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| 13:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> Anyone know why a 1220 client booting ubuntu 8.04.1 w/ LTSP 5 would not have a working mouse in USB or PS/2? Keyboard works in PS/2.
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| 13:07 | srry. 1220 = tk3750/1G
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| 13:08 | <ogra> smells like a broken kenrel update or some such
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| 13:08 | if your modules dont match the kernel version such things happen
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| 13:09 | the keyboard is driven by the in kernel keyboard driver while a ps2 mouse and usb mouse use modules
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| 13:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> would such a discrepancy occur, say, if the server were running 2.6.24-19-server while the client was running 2.6.24-19-generic ?
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| 13:09 | <ogra> no
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| 13:09 | the server's kernel doesnt have any influnece on that
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| 13:10 | what counts is /opt/ltsp/$arch/boot vs /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/$arch
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| 13:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok. Say I have rebuilt the client image as such prior to asking about this: ltsp-build-image --copy-sourceslist
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| 13:13 | <ogra> ltsp-build-client or ltsp-update-image ?
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| 13:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: pardon me, it was client
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| 13:13 | <ogra> (the first creates a complete chroot, the latter only updates and existing .img file)
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| 13:14 | *an
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| 13:14 | ah, k
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| 13:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> err it was ltsp-build-client
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| 13:14 | <ogra> that would essentially replace the kernel
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| 13:14 | it runs ltsp-update-kernels and ltsp-update-image at some point to make sure they are up to date
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| 13:15 | did you see any errors durng boot of the client ?
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| 13:18 | <cilkay> I'm just amazed at how much time I burned through over the last week in trying to get LTSP working on various distros only to have had it working without realizing it last week when I first installed LTSP from the Ubuntu Alternates CD.
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| 13:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: prior to this, we were having a boot problem, which was fixed by adding acpi=off . I'll need to check the boot logs to see if anything popped up that was unseen.
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| 13:19 | <cilkay> While it's not quite plug-and-play, LTSP on Ubuntu is pretty close to it.
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| 13:19 | * ogra is happy to haer cilkay saying that :) | |
| 13:19 | rjune has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:20 | <ogra> *hear even
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| 13:20 | <warren> cilkay: tried fedora's live ltsp server?
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| 13:20 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, dropping the splash keyword from your PXE config might help seeing if there are module errors
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| 13:20 | <warren> cilkay: http://wtogami.livejournal.com/27610.html
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| 13:21 | <cilkay> Yes, but it doesn't offer KDE3 as far as I could tell.
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| 13:21 | <warren> nod
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| 13:21 | <cilkay> And I think the last few parts where one has to do stuff at a shell in Ubuntu can be dealt with some Kommander UIs.
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| 13:22 | I had openSuse installed and it looked very promising as well but I'm like a fish out of water with Suse.
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| 13:22 | I'm comfortable with Mandriva, Red Hat/Fedora, Debian/Ubuntu.
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| 13:23 | Besides, Suse locked up hard several times on the machine I was using so that disqualified it. This has to work pretty much close to flawless to be accepted at the school in which I'm deploying.
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| 13:24 | Surprisingly, CentOS 5.2 had the same issues as Suse. Any attempt to get X running would lock up the machine hard and I'd have to resort to power cycling the machine.
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| 13:24 | Fedora worked though.
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| 13:24 | ... which is even curiouser and curiouser
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| 13:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: will do. Lemme check that, see if he's seeing any other errors
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| 13:32 | <warren> cilkay: what video card?
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| 13:32 | <cilkay> Intel Q965 chipset
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| 13:32 | Intel cards are usually well-supported.
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| 13:32 | <warren> cilkay: on the server side?
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| 13:33 | <cilkay> K/Ubuntu has no trouble with it.
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| 13:33 | That is on the server side.
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| 13:33 | This is before I attempted booting a client.
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| 13:34 | <warren> confirmed, seems there are issues in the older intel drivers and 965
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| 13:34 | Ubuntu's 8.04 was more recent of a release by years
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| 13:34 | so it would have a newer version
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| 13:34 | <ogra> years ?
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| 13:35 | <warren> year?
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| 13:35 | I dunno
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| 13:35 | <ogra> yeah, rather that :)
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| 13:35 | <cilkay> openSuse 11 should not have had those issues.
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| 13:35 | <warren> RHEL5 is based on FC6. We're almost at F10 now.
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| 14:01 | <gbolte> anything new today?
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| 14:06 | <ltsppbot> "Lns" pasted "Common ~/.xsession-errors while trying to logout (logout delays up to 3 minutes)" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/57
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| 14:06 | <Lns> Tons of users in a new Ubuntu 8.04.1 lab get the errors pasted above
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| 14:07 | Also, they can't get into Firefox..these are new users with no existing ~/.mozilla dirs...teachers are piiiissed :(
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| 14:07 | <Lns> Why would thin clients try to auth to GDM ?
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| 14:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> was there a change pertaining to ssh made lately? I just created a new image, and am having problems scp'ing log info off a client.
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| 14:10 | It's giving me the following error: permission denied, please try again. permission denied (publickey,password)
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| 14:10 | <gbolte> hmm
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| 14:11 | Lns, lol @ This shouldn't happen!
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| 14:12 | <Lns> gbolte: i appreciate your humorous laugh...but at this point i'm about to jump off a cliff
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| 14:12 | Nubae1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:13 | <Lns> this is happening at 4 different sites, school is in, and nobody can work
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| 14:13 | <Lns> I wish I could figure out wtf is going on
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| 14:13 | <Gadi> Lns: what kind of authentication do you use?
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| 14:13 | AD?
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| 14:14 | <Lns> Gadi: no, normal passwd file
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| 14:14 | <gbolte> Lns, I am sorry I know how it feels to have your head over the fire
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| 14:14 | <Gadi> Lns: have you tried rebooting the server?
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| 14:14 | <gbolte> its just great for once its not me
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| 14:14 | :P
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| 14:15 | <Lns> heh
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| 14:15 | Gadi: you think that would help?
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| 14:15 | <Gadi> sometimes you have crap in /tmp
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| 14:15 | <rjune> !g
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| 14:15 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 14:15 | <Gadi> that gums things up
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| 14:15 | rather than deleting everything in /tmp
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| 14:15 | <Lns> Gadi: well it's been rebooted 6 days ago due to kernel update
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| 14:15 | <Gadi> it can be cleaner and faster to reboot
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| 14:15 | <Lns> and it was happening before that too
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| 14:16 | <Gadi> ah
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| 14:16 | and did these problems happen after the reboot?
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| 14:16 | or did they creep in over time?
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| 14:16 | <Lns> before and after
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| 14:16 | this is a brand new install
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| 14:16 | new users
| |
| 14:16 | here's a message from a different school's tech: It took 15 minutes for 20 computers to logon to Firefox. The first one took 10 seconds, the next 20 seconds, the 6th one to try and come up had the "Already Open" error. After 20 minutes I went back into Apps/firefox with the remaining workstations and all but two went in. Workstations s8, s9 have the error message. I left them so you could see what is going on with them.
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| 14:17 | baba_melone_ has quit IRC | |
| 14:17 | <Gadi> you aren't using one user account for multiple users, are you?
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| 14:17 | <Lns> no
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| 14:17 | i'm not that dumb :p
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| 14:17 | <Lns> i understand your asking though
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| 14:17 | <Gadi> maybe your users are hitting the firefox button many times in a row
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| 14:17 | <rjune> Lns: what do you use for auth?
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> that would account for "Already Open"
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| 14:18 | rjune: hi
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| 14:18 | <Lns> Gadi: right - but it never comes up
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| 14:18 | <rjune> !g
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| 14:18 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 14:18 | <Lns> not even the first time
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> rjune: local passwd (great minds...)
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| 14:18 | <Lns> rjune: /etc/passwd
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| 14:18 | <rjune> ok, so it's all self contained, not part of a network
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| 14:18 | <Lns> right
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| 14:18 | <rjune> can you get to a shell?
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> Lns: try running firefox from terminal window
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| 14:18 | <rjune> heh
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| 14:18 | <Gadi> and see what errors it spits
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| 14:19 | :)
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| 14:19 | <rjune> Gadi: boy, we've been doing this a while, eh?
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| 14:19 | * Gadi was thinking the same | |
| 14:19 | <rjune> either that or I think like a jew.
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| 14:19 | <Lns> Gadi: i can if i get onsite..
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| 14:19 | hold on, phone call..sorry
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| 14:19 | <Gadi> there are worse things ;)
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| 14:20 | <rjune> yeah, gentiles
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| 14:20 | <Gadi> lol
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| 14:20 | * Gadi avoids the rabble rjune is rousing | |
| 14:20 | <rjune> or is the proper term Goya ;-)
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| 14:20 | <Gadi> and checks his passport
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| 14:20 | brb
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| 14:21 | <Lns> ok back
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| 14:21 | I'll have a tech run FF from a terminal window and get me the output
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| 14:22 | <rjune> fantastic
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| 14:25 | <Lns> ugh..is anyone else having these issues?
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| 14:25 | * Lns hopes he isn't alone | |
| 14:26 | * Lns would like to see syslog from clients directed to the server for easy remote parsing :) | |
| 14:26 | <rjune> I think you can do that
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| 14:27 | <gbolte> Lns, how many clients are there connected to the server?
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| 14:27 | <Lns> gbolte: 35
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| 14:27 | <gbolte> nice
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| 14:28 | we have ~15 per server
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| 14:28 | due to a novell client bug
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| 14:29 | <Lns> yikes
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| 14:30 | <gbolte> http://www.fcdnet.org/japerry/2008/07/novell-client-20-after-few-days.html
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| 14:31 | thats what happens after about 18 users
| |
| 14:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> I'm having problems ssh'ing from client to server w/newly created image.
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| 14:32 | <gbolte> evidently the kernel module was never designed with LTSP in mind :P
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| 14:34 | <Lns> Gadi: there's no terminal output at all, just the "firefox is already running" msg that pops up. lemme kill that user proc and see. There are a TON of FF procs lingering.
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| 14:37 | rjune: Gadi: Ok they're going to try to launch Firefox again after me killing all of the lingering FF procs, they'll get back to me in a few min
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| 14:37 | <rjune> k
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| 14:37 | <Lns> with what i've seen so far, it almost looks like FF3 isn't LTSP compatible at all
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| 14:38 | but i'm sure i wouldn't be the only one complaining if that were the case
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| 14:38 | <warren> ogra: any response to my response to you?
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| 14:39 | <ogra> response comes from responsibility eh ? :)
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| 14:39 | <Lns> also, why is firefox proc showing from a ps list as "/usr/lib/firefox-3.0.1/firefox" ?
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| 14:39 | seems weird
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| 14:42 | <ogra> warren, you mean the flash one ? i need to have a test setup for that which i currently have near me (especally not with two different releases)
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| 14:42 | <ogra> *currently dont
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| 14:42 | sorry
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| 14:42 | (chatting in ten different channels, lots of work stuff atm)
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| 14:43 | <Lns> jeez, firefox link gets symlinked through like 5 different links
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| 14:44 | /usr/bin/firefox -> firefox-3.0, /usr/bin/firefox-3.0 -> ../lib/firefox-3.0.1/firefox.sh
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| 14:45 | <cilkay> I've found FF3 to be a huge memory hog.
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| 14:46 | randra has quit IRC | |
| 14:46 | * ogra wonders if cilkay has tried any version before FF3 | |
| 14:46 | <ogra> its a *massive* improvement
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| 14:47 | <cilkay> Actually, perhaps RAM isn't the measure I'm complaining about. It's CPU utilization. I've found FF3 to go "off in the weeds" more frequently.
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| 14:47 | Especially if Flash is involved.
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| 14:47 | And yes, FF2 is a hog too.
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| 14:48 | How do you deal with the DHCP server setup if you want to have more than one LTSP server on the network?
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| 14:48 | <ogra> have one dhcpd and multiple app servers
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| 14:48 | <cilkay> How does a given client know which one it's supposed to boot from?
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| 14:49 | <ogra> in ubuntu you use nbdrootd=serverip in your pxe config
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| 14:49 | <cilkay> I know I could run dhcpd on all of them and have two NICs and segment the network but that makes the network configuration a bit more complex.
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| 14:50 | Aha. Thanks.
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| 14:51 | <ogra> for other distros you might want nfsroot
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| 14:51 | <cilkay> I'm running Ubuntu, as mentioned above.
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| 14:52 | I've been looking at the Ubuntu multimedia respin, I think it's called Medibuntu or something, for the computer lab. Setting aside issues of running multimedia apps across the network, is there a way that the teacher could listen to what a given student is playing on their computer?
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| 14:53 | We have a computer music course at the school and it would certainly make the teacher's life easier if he could do that.
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| 14:53 | I can provide a means of the teacher seeing, controlling, and spotlighting student desktops but I don't know if that works for audio too.
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| 14:54 | It's just a digital stream so it should be possible to tap into it.
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| 14:55 | <ogra> well, try mythbuntu, they have a ltsp diskless mode
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| 14:56 | makes a lot of sense to have fanless clients in the livingroom and a powerful streaming server in the basement
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| 14:56 | <cilkay> ok, thanks. This will take a bit of experimentation but it'll be awesome once it's working.
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| 14:56 | It sure does.
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| 14:57 | <ogra> laga maintains it
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| 14:58 | <cilkay> I'm off to see the wizard (to the school) to demo my shiny new server.
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| 14:58 | See you.
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| 14:58 | <ogra> ciao ...
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| 14:58 | * ogra is off too | |
| 14:58 | <cilkay> I think it'll be quite a thing for them to see how the clients boot faster off the network than they do off the local hard disk.
| |
| 14:59 | And shutdowns are almost instant.
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| 14:59 | bye
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| 15:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> why is it that when I try to add a user to chroot that is expires the account automatically?
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| 15:14 | <Lns> I'm seeing that idle Firefox 3.01 sessions are taking ungodly amount of CPU time...at http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04, they are just sitting at the page, taking 66%, 80% CPU time per user proc
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| 15:14 | you know, i'm thinking some of these new page seeking features are the culprit
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| 15:19 | * vagrantc fires off a few emails requesting release-exceptions for ltsp, ltspfs and ldm | |
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| 15:41 | <Lns> Ok - does anyone have anything to say about urlclassifier3.sqlite in Firefox 3.0 with LTSP ? It seems outrageous that each FF user profile on a multi-user system such as LTSP should have individual files in upwards of 8MB...that's a lot of space when you're talking potentially hundreds of users.
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| 15:42 | Why can't there be a global pointer file to it? Or is there a way?
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| 15:44 | ahh...found this: http://ychittaranjan.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/urlclassifier3sqlite-woes-on-firefox-3/
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| 16:45 | <johnny> Lns, it may be fixed in newer firefoxes
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| 16:45 | i'm not sure which version ubuntu is distributing
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| 16:58 | <Lns> johnny: I'm seeing 3.0.1+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.3
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| 16:59 | IMHO The Mozilla people really didn't think too much about non-standalone, non-singleuser installations..it seems so bloaty as far as the sqlite stuff goes, and the fact that you can't ref. those types of files beyond a single instance is just hell for LTSP installations.. I used to be able to have global bookmarks.html files, can't with the new places.sqlite :(
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| 17:00 | <warren> you can turn it off though?
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| 17:00 | it isn't realy needed
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| 17:00 | <johnny> you can't? i'm suprised.. merging sqlite files should be trivial?
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| 17:00 | altho they should offer the script too
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| 17:01 | aha.. so they are finally an official 3.0 build
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| 17:01 | <Lns> warren: can you? I *just* started researching that
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| 17:01 | after finding out what's going on
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| 17:02 | <warren> Lns: about:config
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| 17:02 | Lns: there are options in there
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| 17:02 | <johnny> for which?
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| 17:02 | <Lns> warren: how about for massive multi-user ?
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| 17:02 | <warren> Lns: there is a way to make a global config file that forces the about:config optoins to be omething for all users
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| 17:03 | <Lns> warren: I think that might be another issue..hold on lemme bring up the LP bug
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| 17:03 | <johnny> warren, he's talking about sharing bookmarks
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| 17:03 | <warren> http://togami.com/~warren/guides/mozlockdown/ this was how you do it in mozilla 4 years ago. firefox likely has something similar.
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| 17:03 | oh
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| 17:03 | he started talking about resource hog and sqlite
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| 17:03 | <Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/19033
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| 17:03 | <warren> which is one of the huge performance problems of firefox 3
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| 17:03 | <johnny> sure.. about urlclassififier first..
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| 17:04 | then he said something about sharing bookmarks about 15 linues up
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| 17:04 | <Lns> at least for ubuntu, that bug reflects my experience w/global config
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| 17:04 | <johnny> i'm still providing my own custom config right now
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| 17:04 | <Lns> johnny: that's not as big of an issue, it just sucks not being able to do that when bookmarks.html has been used for a billion years
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| 17:04 | <johnny> in /etc/firefox or whatever it is
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| 17:04 | well bookmarks.html was hard to parse
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| 17:04 | really bad html
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| 17:04 | <Lns> still worked for bookmarks :)
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| 17:04 | <warren> wow, it really doesn't do bookmarks.html anymore
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| 17:04 | ?
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| 17:05 | <Lns> warren: it does but you have to import/export manually from places.sqlite
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| 17:05 | <johnny> it creates one called postplaces
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| 17:05 | iirc
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| 17:05 | but i don't know if it updates
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| 17:05 | <Lns> There are config options to automatically export/import but it's a big hack
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| 17:05 | <johnny> you're a big hack :)
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| 17:05 | <Lns> and takes up a lot of CPU..when you're talking ~30-40 users logging on at once it's unusable
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| 17:05 | johnny: :p~
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| 17:06 | <johnny> i couldn't help it :)
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| 17:06 | <Lns> don't test me right now... I'm about to say "$*#@ it" and install windows terminal server :p
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| 17:06 | * Lns ducks | |
| 17:06 | <Lns> "Play me off, Johnny!"
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| 17:06 | <johnny> beep beep boop beep?
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| 17:07 | * Lns laughs | |
| 17:08 | <johnny> hmm.. i enjoy playing with ltsp on gentoo. much funner than on ubuntu
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| 17:08 | <johnny> it's easier to tweak the packages for my liking
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| 17:09 | so. we still have to start cdpinger from the init scripts?
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| 17:09 | i thought it could be started by udev now
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| 17:12 | Guaraldo has left #ltsp | |
| 17:13 | <vagrantc> johnny: shouldn't have to start from init ... although i put in a check to run from both.
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| 17:14 | <johnny> so.. how often do folks request to turn off local dev?
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> it's disabled at freegeek
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| 17:16 | <johnny> it sounds like it should be controlled by stuff like that usb security framework
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> too little bandwidth, so if there's no way to save it, people don't download DVDs and such.
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| 17:20 | <Lns> Ahhhhh...this might be of much use to us LTSP folk using FF3... http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.safebrowsing.enabled
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| 17:44 | <johnny> hmm.. my ltsp-client and ltsp-client-setup scripts.. are quite a bit varied than the defaults..
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| 18:07 | <johnny> hmm... c'mon guys HELP me :)
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| 18:08 | do you know if broadcom pxes have ever been known to not get the tftp prefix?
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| 18:08 | on another note.. what is CONFIGURE_FSTAB used for?
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| 18:09 | vs setting it manually
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| 18:09 | <warren> i've never seen that before
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| 18:11 | <johnny> if [ -z "$CONFIGURE_FSTAB" ] || boolean_is_true "$CONFIGURE_FSTAB" ; then
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| 18:11 | echo "/dev/root / rootfs defaults 0 0" > /etc/fstab
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| 18:11 | echo "tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,nosuid,nodev 0 0" >> /etc/fstab
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| 18:11 | mount /tmp
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| 18:11 | fi
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| 18:13 | <Gadi> johnny: CONFIGURE_FSTAB was added as a param I think to help people making diskless fat clients
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| 18:13 | so that you can turn off LTSP's tendency to write an fstab
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| 18:14 | on the fly
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| 18:14 | in terms of PXE, it is not that the client needs to "get a prefix"
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| 18:15 | the client requests the file as in "filename"
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| 18:15 | in dhcpd.conf
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| 18:15 | <johnny> yeah.. it gets that
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| 18:15 | <Gadi> it is the tftpd server that knows to append the prefix
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| 18:15 | <johnny> hmm.. one client gets it
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| 18:15 | <Gadi> based on how it is launched
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| 18:15 | <johnny> virtualbox vm gets it
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| 18:15 | but neither of my dell laptops do
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| 18:15 | <Gadi> are you sure?
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| 18:16 | I mean that it just does not get the peefix?
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| 18:16 | <johnny> it says TFTP Prefix: /ltsp/x86 on vm
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| 18:16 | <Gadi> *prefix
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| 18:16 | <johnny> and then TFTP Prefix:
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| 18:16 | on the two dells
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| 18:16 | <Gadi> where is that?
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| 18:16 | in a log?
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| 18:16 | <johnny> on boot
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| 18:16 | right when it starts
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| 18:16 | <Gadi> how do you set the prefix?
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| 18:17 | <Gadi> the client should not get any "prefix"
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| 18:17 | I have never seen that
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| 18:18 | <johnny> huh? i have 10 clients.. (not that many , i know)
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| 18:18 | but when they all start
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| 18:18 | they all show tftp prefix after getting the ip
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| 18:18 | <Gadi> http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2005-October/006033.html
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| 18:18 | do you have next-server in dhcpd.conf?
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| 18:19 | <johnny> i don't ue dhcpd
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| 18:19 | i use dnsmasq
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| 18:19 | i have the equivalent
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| 18:20 | dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/x86/pxelinux.0,beep,192.168.2.4
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| 18:20 | the virtualbox vm finds everything fine
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| 18:20 | <Gadi> what tftp server?
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| 18:20 | <johnny> i tried both tftp-hpa, and atftp
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| 18:20 | same diff
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| 18:21 | <vagrantc> johnny: the example in ltsp-trunk/server/doc/examples/dhcpd-dnsmasq worked for me.
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| 18:22 | <johnny> mine is based on that
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| 18:22 | and that deployment works at red emma's
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| 18:22 | <vagrantc> but you added stuff
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| 18:22 | <johnny> except for 1 machine
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| 18:22 | using rom-o-matic floppy on that
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| 18:23 | vagrantc, i've tried a few different things
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| 18:23 | that's just the current iteration
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| 18:23 | same errors
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| 18:23 | i'm about to test with another desktop machine after i use some compressed air on it
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| 18:52 | <Lns> FYI, you guys might want to look a bit more into gnome-watchdog package - it seems to be working great on my server, and I'm going to start testing at my 7 sites hopefully in the next couple of weeks. It seems to rid stale user processes pretty cleanly - I haven't had a problem with ~1 week of testing, using on a daily basis.
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| 18:53 | Might be good to integrate into core ltsp functionality on the different distros
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| 18:53 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:53 | <Lns> once fully tested
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| 20:04 | <warren> Another approach is to use the /usr/lib/firefox-3.0/firefox.cfg file and lockPref("network.proxy.http","127.0.0.1");
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| 20:04 | lockPref("network.proxy.http_port",3120);
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| 20:04 | ah
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| 20:04 | this is how to do the config file
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| 20:04 | in modern firefox
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> sbalneav, ogra: i'm having trouble tracking down the proper build-dependencies for xatomwait
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| 21:13 | warren: you have some sort of build-dependencies? did you need to add anything when we added xrexecd/xatomwait?
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| 21:14 | i'm missing a build dependency for something installed on my laptop, because it seems to work fine there.
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| 21:14 | so that narrows it down to 866 packages ...
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| 21:14 | mdc___ has left #ltsp | |
| 21:16 | <vagrantc> Makefile:218: .deps/xatomwait.Po: No such file or directory
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| 21:16 | make[2]: *** No rule to make target `.deps/xatomwait.Po'. Stop.
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| 21:23 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: configure makes it for me...
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| 21:23 | * Ryan52 growls at auto* | |
| 21:24 | <vagrantc> automake1.7, maybe...
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| 21:26 | no, because in an act of desperation, i tried automake1.7
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| 21:26 | er, intltool, which depends on it
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| 21:27 | <Ryan52> but did you rerun autogen.sh and configure before trying to make?
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| 21:28 | <vagrantc> re-ran configure. autogen.sh isn't supposed to be run as part of the build process.
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| 21:28 | that's done during tarball creation.
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| 21:28 | it works fine when i build on my laptop, but not from cowbuilder.
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| 21:29 | so it's got to be a missing build-dep.
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| 21:34 | well, adding automake1.7 fixed it ... seemingly.
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| 22:22 | SupremeMan_25 has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:22 | <SupremeMan_25> hi all
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| 22:22 | i need to buy 20 thin clients which one are the best?
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| 22:22 | <MacIver> heh, we've been buying gpcs and removing the drives
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| 22:23 | <SupremeMan_25> i have space problems :/
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| 22:23 | <MacIver> how big?
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| 22:24 | <SupremeMan_25> now im using eboxes..
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| 22:25 | <MacIver> how much $?
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| 22:26 | <SupremeMan_25> cheapest possible but not as crappier as eboxes
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| 22:26 | *crappy
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| 22:26 | im using in a classroom
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| 22:26 | <MacIver> http://www.everex.com/products/gpc/gpc.htm <-- these are not bad
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| 22:26 | <SupremeMan_25> let's see
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| 22:27 | normal things, like OOo, frozen bubble, youtube
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| 22:28 | <MacIver> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883118005R
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| 22:29 | although you probably don't need the cdrw and sata hd :-p
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| 22:30 | <SupremeMan_25> i think they are too big
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| 22:30 | ebox are like... an ipod of tall
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| 22:30 | <MacIver> probably, the tower is quite large, but very hollow :-p
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| 22:30 | how much does the ebox cost?
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| 22:31 | <SupremeMan_25> like $100
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| 22:32 | but arent enough since soundcard isnt supported by ltsp5, and they have a slow videocard, then video shows slowly
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| 22:34 | why ltsp4 is much faster to boot than ltsp5?
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| 22:34 | <vagrantc> because it's not doing as much
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| 22:35 | <SupremeMan_25> what are the most important differences that makes ltsp5 boots slower?
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| 22:35 | *which
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| 22:36 | <cilkay> I just came back from the school where I installed an LTSP Server on Hardy. Clients booted quickly here but at the school, I noticed the first one was quick. The second took quite a bit longer. The third was ridiculously long and the fourth never made it.
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| 22:36 | <johnny> huh? soundcard isn't supported by ltsp5? are you sure it has anything to do with ltsp5?
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| 22:36 | <cilkay> Load average was nothing on the server.
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| 22:36 | <johnny> the main difference between ltsp4 and 5 in the boot regard
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| 22:37 | <cilkay> The clients weren't doing anything, just booting.
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| 22:37 | <johnny> is that ltsp5 uses more of it's host distro styles
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| 22:37 | including init
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| 22:37 | not that i've ever seen ltsp4.. but it was it's own custom distro..
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| 22:37 | i assume it could be a bit more svelte
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| 22:37 | <SupremeMan_25> johnny, yes, its an ebox1000, sound card is obsolete i think, i was searching for months without results
| |
| 22:38 | <cilkay> The last time I installed LTSP was in 2000 or 2001. I don't know what version it was but on a P3-650 with 512M of RAM, it was plenty fast.
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| 22:38 | <johnny> don't search by ltsp SupremeMan_25 .. only by linux
| |
| 22:38 | if linux supports it, ltsp can
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| 22:38 | <SupremeMan_25> the kernel was the problem
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| 22:40 | even compiling some modules
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| 22:40 | <johnny> it's the same as it's host distro
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| 22:40 | in ltsp5..
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| 22:40 | <SupremeMan_25> besides, boot takes like 3 minutes in ltsp5 , in ltsp4 takes like 40secs
| |
| 22:40 | <johnny> hmm.. i'm not seeing it take 3 min here
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| 22:40 | <cilkay> Mine was taking longer for clients after the first.
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| 22:40 | <johnny> you can trim stuff down if you know what you're doing tho
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| 22:40 | <cilkay> Longer than 3 minutes.
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| 22:40 | <SupremeMan_25> ebox1000 are 128mb ram, 233mhz or so
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| 22:40 | <johnny> like cut down the default kernel
| |
| 22:40 | oh.. wow
| |
| 22:40 | thought they were newer
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| 22:40 | <SupremeMan_25> are the size of an ipod
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| 22:40 | <vagrantc> ebox2300 ? there's all sorts of problems with those ...
| |
| 22:41 | <johnny> the ones symbio technologies sell, seem neat
| |
| 22:41 | <cilkay> And these weren't lightweight machines. The server is a P4 2.8G with 2G of RAM. The clients were the same or better.
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| 22:41 | <johnny> i personally want something big enough for an optical drive
| |
| 22:41 | <cilkay> Asus EEE Top
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| 22:41 | <johnny> that sounds like my server cilkay
| |
| 22:41 | i only have 4 clients here tho
| |
| 22:41 | but they all seem to start reasonably quickly
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| 22:42 | <cilkay> I never made it to four.
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| 22:42 | <johnny> i got 4 off a relatively default install
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| 22:42 | i haven't even tweaked the kernel.. since they are all different chipsets and have totally different devices
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| 22:42 | <cilkay> With that kind of horsepower, should be able to do much better.
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| 22:42 | <SupremeMan_25> i have 20clients in an xeon quadcore 8gbram
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| 22:42 | <cilkay> I'll try one of the Core2 Duo machines as a server and see if that makes a difference.
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| 22:43 | <SupremeMan_25> now the problems are clients, of course
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| 22:43 | <johnny> oh.. that p4 wasn't dual core?
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| 22:43 | dual core is worth it for this kinda setup
| |
| 22:43 | at least
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| 22:43 | <cilkay> It probably has crappy I/O too. Probably an IDE drive, not SATA.
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| 22:43 | I know I/O makes a huge difference.
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| 22:44 | The P3-650 was an IBM workstation with a fast SCSI drive. It was pretty impressive in its day.
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| 22:44 | <johnny> cilkay, even thought we have dual core.. we actually still use the server itself, as a desktop
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| 22:44 | it's our POS system
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| 22:44 | and folks use it to play music
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| 22:44 | <cilkay> Sure, why not? It's not Windows.
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| 22:44 | <johnny> so it gets more of a load than any normal ltsp system
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| 22:45 | err
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| 22:45 | different kind of load
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| 22:45 | for that spec range
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| 22:46 | i wish i could afford thin clients
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| 22:46 | real ones
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| 22:46 | then i'd bring in a different machine for the POS
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| 22:46 | need to make more space in that place.. it's too small
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| 22:47 | my tech budget is something like $130 a month, takes awhile to save up :)
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| 22:47 | <cilkay> You'd blow 2.5 months of your budget on one EEE Top.
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| 22:48 | <SupremeMan_25> how can i show flash fluidly in an client?
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| 22:48 | youtube
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| 22:48 | <cilkay> Local apps? Experimental from what I understand though.
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| 22:48 | <SupremeMan_25> humm
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| 22:49 | <johnny> SupremeMan_25, yeah.. you really want to use local apps
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| 22:49 | <SupremeMan_25> and full screen vid, that should be the solution too? or that is too much for network?
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| 22:49 | <johnny> too much
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| 22:49 | unless you run it local
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| 22:49 | and you need something up to 512mb for good performance
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| 22:49 | <SupremeMan_25> from localdrive
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| 22:49 | <johnny> flash is a dog
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| 22:49 | no.. not local drive
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| 22:49 | if you don't have em
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| 22:49 | you can serve up the files of firefox + flash from the server, but execute them locally
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| 22:49 | so the video is compressed all the way to the client
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| 22:50 | <SupremeMan_25> ok, and it will show fluidly fullscreen?
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| 22:50 | <johnny> there was a major blocker in making this easy
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| 22:50 | it just got solved recently
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| 22:50 | uhmm.. i don't know from personal experience
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| 22:50 | i'll find out soon
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| 22:50 | when i test out my setup
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| 22:50 | i'm building ltsp for gentoo
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| 22:51 | and i plan on trying to use it for a media center/set top box thing
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| 22:51 | <SupremeMan_25> i ve used in ubuntu, ltsp4 and 5, and now im with rhel, i ve tried both ltsp too
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| 22:52 | humm
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| 22:52 | <johnny> you'd probably want to trim down the default kernels
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| 22:52 | and then tweak the bootup, if you wanted to really make the best usage out of what you have
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| 22:52 | ubuntu includes a --kiosk option for ltsp-build-client
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| 22:52 | <cilkay> what does that do?
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| 22:52 | <johnny> it does local apps that way, served up in the image
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| 22:53 | but only includes firefox and flash
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| 22:53 | <cilkay> Oh my!
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| 22:53 | <SupremeMan_25> humm
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| 22:53 | <johnny> i've never used it
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| 22:53 | i would suggest using the real local apps
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| 22:53 | <SupremeMan_25> can i have access to other apps?
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| 22:53 | <johnny> so it won't bloat your image size
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| 22:53 | no.. everything runs local with that
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| 22:53 | the image size would be too huge
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| 22:53 | <SupremeMan_25> humm..
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| 22:53 | <johnny> boot times would be astonomical
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| 22:54 | <SupremeMan_25> thats only in ltsp5 right?
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| 22:54 | <johnny> uhmm.. i have no idea
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| 22:54 | i have never used ltsp4, and i never plan to
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| 22:54 | <cilkay> I've been wondering why it wouldn't be feasible to just write that image to the local disk and still use LTSP to manage the whole thing?
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| 22:54 | <petre> ltsp 4 has no support for local apps
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| 22:54 | <SupremeMan_25> yes
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| 22:54 | with a little package
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| 22:54 | <johnny> because it doesn't affect boot times that much
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| 22:54 | <SupremeMan_25> ltsp4.2 has it
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| 22:55 | <johnny> oh.. even with that junk
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| 22:55 | <cilkay> It would be like booting from a live CD and then installing from the live CD.
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| 22:55 | <SupremeMan_25> localapps and localdev
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| 22:55 | <johnny> i think in kiosk mode
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| 22:55 | you can't use anything but local
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| 22:55 | <petre> local devices, but what local apps run under 4.2?
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| 22:55 | <SupremeMan_25> humm maybe im wrong...
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| 22:56 | i ll find out right now
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| 22:56 | <johnny> cilkay, imo it's cheaper to invest in more hardware than spending all the time messing with the underlying software, unless you plan on becoming a guru
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| 22:56 | or pay somebody to do that messing
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| 22:57 | <vagrantc> there was crude support for localapps in ltsp4, but you needed to set up the LTSP build environment ... there wasn't much in the way of existing support.
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| 22:57 | <johnny> aha vagrantc !
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| 22:57 | <SupremeMan_25> :o
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| 22:57 | <johnny> so.. tonight i'm rearranging my office..
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| 22:57 | now i'm just wishing for more network cable :(
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| 22:57 | <vagrantc> although i didn't get involved until ltsp5 came around either.
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| 22:58 | <SupremeMan_25> vagrantc, how can i do to run local apps inl ltsp4.2.. loading into image too?
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> !localapps
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| 22:58 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: Error: "localapps" is not a valid command.
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> !localapp
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| 22:58 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: Error: "localapp" is not a valid command.
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| 22:58 | <vagrantc> !localdev
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| 22:58 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 22:58 | <SupremeMan_25> i have localdev in ltsp4.2
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| 22:59 | * vagrantc wonders when incompatibilities in the X protocol will make ltsp 4.x a dead-end road. | |
| 22:59 | <vagrantc> did it even use X.org ?
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| 22:59 | <johnny> vagrantc, do you know what that debug console option in lts.conf does?
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> johnny: which one?
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| 23:00 | <johnny> gadi made it recently..
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| 23:00 | <vagrantc> LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL?
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| 23:01 | <johnny> yes
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| 23:01 | <vagrantc> it spawns an xterm when you log in
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| 23:01 | running locally
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| 23:03 | <SupremeMan_25> keep ltsp4.2 alive pls
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| 23:03 | <johnny> SupremeMan_25, it has no maintainer
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| 23:03 | <SupremeMan_25> its much better for really slow and oldies machines :(
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| 23:03 | <johnny> our distro has dropped it due to unresolved security concerns
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| 23:04 | <vagrantc> ltsp4 hasn't recieved updates in years...
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| 23:04 | it's only a matter of time before something breaks that can't really be fixed
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| 23:04 | <SupremeMan_25> and i assume that will not exist an ltsp5 lite :P
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| 23:05 | <vagrantc> why do you assume that?
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| 23:05 | <SupremeMan_25> :o
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| 23:05 | <johnny> SupremeMan_25, ltsp is only as light as your distro can be
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| 23:05 | it isn't in itself very intensive
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| 23:05 | <vagrantc> we've definitely tried to keep the specs as low as possible, but there are some limitations.
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| 23:05 | <johnny> it's just a set of scripts
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| 23:06 | <SupremeMan_25> johnny, i dont think so , since as i told you , i ve tried both ltsp4 and 5 in the same distro
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| 23:06 | <johnny> ltsp4 is it's own distro
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| 23:06 | in the chroot
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| 23:06 | <SupremeMan_25> humm
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| 23:07 | <johnny> compare the versions of the components
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| 23:07 | does ltsp 4 even use a 2.6 kernel?
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| 23:07 | <SupremeMan_25> so thats why ltsp4 gives me soundcard supports and ltsp5 not... hummm now im unterstanding
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| 23:07 | <vagrantc> 4.2 is 2.6 ...
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| 23:07 | <johnny> aha .. that's nice
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| 23:08 | <SupremeMan_25> 2.6.8 i think
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| 23:08 | <vagrantc> SupremeMan_25: if your distro doesn't support your soundcard, then it won't be supported by ltsp5 ... ltsp5 is built out of your distro, ltsp4 was it's *own* distro.
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| 23:08 | <SupremeMan_25> since 2.6.18 or so it doesnt supported my clients' sound card
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| 23:08 | yes, vagrantc i just noted that
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| 23:08 | <johnny> that is why ltsp4 will never recieve updates
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| 23:09 | the closest to ltsp4 is altlinux
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| 23:09 | it's sorta ltsp4 and ltsp5 hybrid
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| 23:09 | <SupremeMan_25> and, what about if i get and old light distro (that uses 2.6.8kernel) and put ltsp5, it should boot fast in clients right?
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| 23:10 | :o altlinux humm...
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| 23:10 | <johnny> well i wouldn't get old anything if possible
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| 23:10 | <vagrantc> SupremeMan_25: you would need ltsp5 to have support for that distro.
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| 23:10 | <SupremeMan_25> then, i have to assume that all 20eboxes are thrash now?
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| 23:10 | <johnny> SupremeMan_25, you could try LDM_DIRECTX=Y
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| 23:10 | btw
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| 23:11 | you should read the lts-parameters.txt file
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> there's pages suggesting what to do with the eboxes
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| 23:11 | <SupremeMan_25> yes, i already did it, the problem is the kernel
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| 23:11 | <vagrantc> search for ltsp and ebox
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| 23:11 | <SupremeMan_25> and boot time
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| 23:12 | kernel doesnt support sound anymore, 7019 or so
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| 23:13 | sis7019 i think
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| 23:18 | ?
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| 23:19 | ebox II are my clients
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| 23:48 | <SupremeMan_25> from one moment to another everybody stops talk
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| 23:52 | see you, thanks
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| 23:52 | bye
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