IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 18 January 2010 (all times are UTC)
| 00:08 | <sbalneav> Heading to bed. Night all.
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| 00:09 | <stgraber> night sbalneav
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| 00:15 | <elmo40> interesting... http://sf.net/projects/symbiont/ webmin-based tool for managing ltsp. Jan 2009.
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| 00:24 | <GGD_> elmo40: it is but its not been kept up
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| 00:40 | <elmo40> one year old. for 4.1, i believe
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| 00:41 | hrmm, trying to boot this laptop with the NIC and it is hanging on the routers IP. How do i tell the router to show the server to it? is there a port to open?
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| 01:07 | <Appiah> "hanging on the routers IP" ?
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| 01:14 | <alkisg> elmo40: do you mean that you have 2 dhcp servers and 1 nic on your ltsp server?
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| 01:35 | <shogunx> hi guys.
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| 01:36 | i need a bit of a advice
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| 01:36 | i have just installed one of my solarnetone ltsp networks on abemama, kiribati in the south pacific.
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| 01:37 | i am running out of time on the island, and i need a method to allow timed logins
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| 01:38 | the operator does prepay billing, and they need to be able to sell an hour of service and have that hour essentially logged and the session to time out when complete.
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| 01:38 | any ideas? ogra?
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| 01:39 | not sure i can write that in an day and a half...
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| 01:47 | <alkisg> shogunx: http://projects.gnome.org/nanny/ enforces time limits on sessions, but it's oriented to kids. Maybe you could get some code out of it, though...
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| 01:47 | <shogunx> cool
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| 01:47 | thanx... i'll check it
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| 01:47 | <alkisg> np
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| 06:41 | <alkisg> SOUND should be forced=FALSE for fat clients. So I want to put an "if boolean_is_true "$LTSP_FATCLIENT"; then export SOUND=False; fi"
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| 06:41 | Should I put that in ltsp_config or in ltsp-init-common?
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| 09:26 | <sbalneav> MoMorning all
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| 09:27 | <alkisg> !s
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| 09:27 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:28 | <sbalneav> Morning alkisg
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| 09:44 | <alincoln> how does ltsp-build-client decide what packages to put in the chroot? i've been poking at the scripts for a while and can't tell.
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| 09:46 | oh, i think it's 040-copy-package-lists.
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> It puts a hardcoded set of packages, unless the user specifies one of the '--early-packages' or '--late-packages' options
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| 09:47 | <alincoln> alkisg: ah, ok. i was wrong.
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| 09:47 | alkisg: where is the hardcoded list?
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> In the source code :P :D
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| 09:47 | No seriously it's in more than 1 plugins
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| 09:48 | <alincoln> alkisg: heh, fair enough
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| 09:49 | <damianos> Hello
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| 09:49 | Gia sou aklisg
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> Geia sou damianos :)
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| 09:50 | <alincoln> alkisg: if i go into the chroot and do 'dpkg --get-selections', i get a list of packages installed by ltsp-build-client into the chroot. but these package names aren't in any of the plugin scripts. they must be defined another way, right?
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| 09:51 | <damianos> Can somebody point me to some documentation on how to boot a thin client with a floppy?
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| 09:51 | <Appiah> umm
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| 09:51 | <Appiah> gPXE maybe has something like that
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| 09:51 | <damianos> Everything I've found online is years old
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| 09:52 | <Appiah> yes thats beacuse the floppy is old
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| 09:52 | people use usb sticks today
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> alincoln: many of them are dependencies....
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| 09:52 | <gnunux> alincoln: package are installed with debootstap
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| 09:52 | <Appiah> http://www.etherboot.org/wiki/removable#creating_a_bootable_floppy_disk
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> alincoln: E.g. if you run `sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop`, you'll get hundrends of programs
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| 09:53 | <alincoln> alkisg: ah, ok.
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| 09:53 | gnunux: thanks
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| 09:53 | <damianos> Thanks Appiah...I'll go check it out
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> damianos: http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-0.9.9/contrib/rom-o-matic/
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| 09:54 | Just click the button there.
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> (the get image button - you don't need to modify any setting)
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| 09:55 | <damianos> Thanks alkisg....btw a thin client i've been using for testing was working fine then I started getting a media test failure. Is the media being referred to system RAM?
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| 09:56 | <alkisg> I don't think so. Maybe the network cable?
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| 09:56 | <damianos> Nope....I setup a virtual machine on my laptop to act as a client and it boots fine
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| 10:18 | <alincoln> i'm testing LTSP 5.1.98 in Ubuntu 10.04, and getting some errors on startup because lspci isn't available in the image. it seems that it's been removed from EARLY_PACKAGES for ltsp-build-client for 5.1.98, even though it was in this variable for LTSP 5.1.90.
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| 10:18 | was it intended to remove hal from the image? if so, should the scripts that rely on it be removed?
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> alincoln: that was fixed recently, lspci should be on the image on newer builds
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| 10:19 | <alincoln> alkisg: ah, ok
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| 10:19 | <alkisg> For now just put it there manually
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| 10:19 | <alincoln> gotcha
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| 10:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, so I just upgraded a ltsp server from 9.04 to 9.10, and almost all of the ltsp users (aside from my own personal user) are not able to start X. Here's the auth.log and syslog files:
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| 10:33 | http://pastebin.com/m2ef79a2f
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| 10:33 | it's saying that it can's start an nm-applet.desktop, and a /proc directory can't be read :/
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| 10:36 | I am able to log on as these users on the server, just no clients
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| 10:37 | <Gadi> the proc thing sounds like italc or some such
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| 10:37 | and nm-applet is network-manager
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| 10:37 | your users don't need nm-applet
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> Gadi: Morning!!!
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> !s
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| 10:38 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> !s
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| 10:38 | <ltspbot> _UsUrPeR_: "s" :: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey the bot works! :D
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: neither of those errors should be blocking
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| 10:38 | * sbalneav reminds gadi about a breif one pager on rdesktop for the manual | |
| 10:38 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: check auth.log for ssh auth issues
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| 10:38 | <alkisg> Also check for compiz problems :)
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| 10:39 | <Gadi> sbalneav: ah, thx! Todays a good day to do it, too
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| 10:39 | bless u, MLK,Jr.
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| 10:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: auth.log on the server is in the pastebin I provided
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| 10:39 | <sbalneav> Ah, yes, happy MLK day to our american cousins. Here's to dreaming!
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| 10:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm. another weird thing: SCREEN-02 = shell does not seem to be working properly. I hit ctrl+alt+F2 to go to tty2, and instead I am seeing a garbled version of ldm background
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| 10:40 | <Gadi> SCREEN_02 you mean
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| 10:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: yeah
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| 10:40 | SCREEN_02
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> xplash brokenness?
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| 10:40 | <Gadi> yeah, sounds like a wonky compositing manager
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| 10:40 | uninstall compiz
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| 10:40 | and see if everything comes up Milhouse
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> ahh, compiz
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| 10:41 | Some people have the bogeyman, we have compiz
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| 10:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi: milhouse = bring, blue hair, glasses, divorced parents?
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| 10:41 | s/bring/boring
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| 10:41 | <sbalneav> "The program you love to hate" :)
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| 10:41 | <Gadi> indeed
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| 10:41 | on all counts
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| 10:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> I hope my ltsp session doesn't have a broken childhood
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| 10:42 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_, try this: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 10:43 | You may need to restart gconfd... (or reboot or something)...
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| 10:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: is that in chroot, server or client?
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| 10:43 | <alkisg> Server, it disables compiz for everyone
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| 10:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> k
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| 10:43 | * _UsUrPeR_ restarts client | |
| 10:45 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkis: that worked. huh.
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| 10:45 | also fixed the screen_02 issue
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| 10:47 | alkisg: thanks.
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> np - hope your driver is fixed soon :)
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| 10:47 | <_UsUrPeR_> oh that's a VIA issue?
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| 10:47 | I'll keep chasing that rainbow.
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| 10:48 | I.E. "fat chance" ;)
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| 11:11 | <Gadi> sbalneav: where in the manual do you intend to put the rdp stuff?
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| 11:11 | * Gadi wonders what context he should put stuff in | |
| 11:12 | <sbalneav> Gadi: I'd probably give it it's own chapter
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| 11:12 | since lots of people have an interest in it, it's important enough to separate out as a chapter.
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| 11:14 | <Gadi> ok
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| 11:15 | <sbalneav> Just do plain text, or an OO document, whatever's easier.
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| 11:15 | I can docbook it after that.
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| 12:00 | <etyackAKAmrMom> sbalneav: is there a document describing you want documentation submitted?
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| 12:04 | <sbalneav> etyackAKAmrMom: You mean, how I want documentation submitted?
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| 12:04 | I'll take it any way I can get it
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| 12:05 | Reformatting for docbook's just an excercise in text processing
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| 12:12 | <Gadi> sbalneav: keep an eye out for my email
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| 12:13 | <etyackAKAmrMom> sbalneav: k, and your are the docmaster too
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| 12:14 | <sbalneav> etyackAKAmrMom: docmaster. Cool title.
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| 12:15 | I was gunning for something more along the lines of "Keeper of ye olde mysikal LTSP Lore and Spells"
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| 12:15 | but docmaster's shorter :)
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| 12:19 | <etyackAKAmrMom> yah, that sounds more like you. tough to print on a badge though, maybe a belt buckle, a BIG belt buckle.
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| 12:19 | <CAN-o-SPAM> heh
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| 12:25 | <sbalneav> Gadi: Got it! I'll add it now.
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| 13:34 | <sbalneav> Gadi: OK, check out the docs link
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| 13:34 | !docs
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| 13:34 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "docs" :: For the most current documentation, see https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Ltsp_LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 13:34 | <sbalneav> I've pushed a new version of the pdf
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| 13:37 | <knipwim> sbalneav: why is there no mediawiki representation of the pdf?
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> sbalneav: "Unable to find any mirror information for the "/LTSPManual.pdf" file. Please select another file."
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| 13:40 | <sbalneav> knipwim: Do you know of a docbook to mediawiki conversion routine?
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| 13:41 | <knipwim> xslt?
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| 13:41 | i've never done it
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| 13:41 | could give it a try
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| 13:41 | <sbalneav> knipwim: Soon as you tell me how to do it, I'd be more than happy to post it.
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| 13:42 | Only problem is, if you pasted the content on a wiki, then people may change it.
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| 13:42 | how do I go from the wiki back to docbook?
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| 13:42 | Inverstigaet that at the same time.
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| 13:42 | <knipwim> :)
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| 13:42 | okay
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| 13:43 | i'm going on holiday next week
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| 13:43 | that sounds like something to do then
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| 13:43 | <sbalneav> yeah yeah
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| 13:43 | <knipwim> do you have a docbook source somewhere?
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| 13:43 | <sbalneav> Which, the source for the manual?
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| 13:44 | <knipwim> yes
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| 13:44 | <sbalneav> bzr branch lp:~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trunk
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| 13:44 | <knipwim> check
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| 13:45 | <sbalneav> crumb, why did it upload to the wrong place?
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| 13:47 | eugh, SF's as slow as molassas in January
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| 13:47 | it's there, it's just not under docs-admin-guide
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| 13:47 | I'll have to see about moving it tonight.
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Gadi: since you're optimizing ltsp_config, wouldn't it be a good idea to do `if [ "$LTSP_CONFIG" = "True" ]; then return 0; fi` as its first line? Kind of like #ifdef in C header files?
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| 16:21 | <Gadi> what is LTSP_CONFIG?
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> It's set at the end of that file
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| 16:21 | # set to determine if ltsp_config has already been sourced
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| 16:21 | export LTSP_CONFIG=${LTSP_CONFIG:-"True"}
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| 16:22 | So it's usually used by the scripts that source ltsp_config
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| 16:22 | if [ -z "$LTSP_CONFIG" ] then source it...
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| 16:22 | But it's not done consistently
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| 16:22 | It'd be much faster and more consistent if it was done inside ltsp_config, I think...
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| 16:23 | The idea is the same as in C header files: #IFNDEF _HEADER_, #DEFINE _HEADER_, code, #ENDIF...
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| 16:24 | <Gadi> well, you can only return from a function, so we would need to put all the upfront stuff in a function
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> Gadi: You can return from a sourced script as well...
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| 16:25 | <Gadi> something like: set_defaults()
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> To "cancel" the sourcing
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| 16:25 | <Gadi> are you sure?
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> Yeah, we already use that in the fat client script
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| 16:26 | I don't know how POSIX-standard that is, but sh works fine with it, and I think a lot of ltsp-build-client plugins use it
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| 16:26 | <Gadi> which fat client script?
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| 16:26 | the plugin?
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 16:26 | <Gadi> plugins are already functions
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| 16:27 | ie the different sections are functions
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| 16:27 | <alkisg> Ooooh
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| 16:27 | Hmmmm :)
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| 16:27 | <Gadi> I think
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| 16:27 | <Gadi> iirc
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| 16:27 | its been a while since I looked at plugins
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| 16:27 | * alkisg makes an example script to try it... | |
| 16:27 | <Gadi> I was gonna say... :)
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> Yeah, works fine...
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| 16:29 | <allinone> hey Gadi
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| 16:29 | * alkisg also tries with bash... | |
| 16:29 | <alkisg> Works with bash as well.
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| 16:29 | <allinone> just saying howdy, the library is closing now
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| 16:30 | Gadi: catch you later
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| 16:31 | <Gadi> ok
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| 16:31 | Ill add it in then
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| 16:31 | and put you in the commit message :)
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Heh, no need, I'm trying to avoid being blamed :P :D
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| 16:34 | <Gadi> alkisg: why is it:
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| 16:34 | export LTSP_CONFIG=${LTSP_CONFIG:-"True"}
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| 16:34 | and not simply:
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| 16:35 | export LTSP_CONFIG=True
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> Gadi: I've *no* idea!!! I couldn't understand it either
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| 16:35 | <Gadi> unless you wanted to be able to ALWAYS source it
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> Maybe in the case someone doesn't want it to be bypassed?
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| 16:35 | <Gadi> by setting LTSP_COCFIG=False in lts.conf
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> Right, that
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| 16:35 | I think debian does that
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| 16:36 | <Gadi> how come?
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| 16:36 | are we not understanding its use?
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> We have to ask vagrantc...
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| 16:37 | But I don't think that an "if [ "$LTSP_CONFIG" = "True" ] on top causes any harm
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| 16:37 | <stgraber> I just mentioned it on #edubuntu but will repeat it here as it's a more appropriate channel ;)
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> Just leave the bottom line intact, and we'll ping vagrantc on the first chance
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| 16:37 | <stgraber> the idea is to have LTSP 5.1.99 be the last release before 5.2, that's why I haven't tagged it yet
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| 16:38 | I'm waiting for a few other fixes and tests as I want it to be rock solid, then we can do some more bugfix + translation updated and release 5.2
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| 16:42 | <Gadi> stgraber: can you test the rdesktop script with sound to make sure we didnt break it?
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| 16:42 | RDP_OPTIONS = "-r sound:local"
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| 16:46 | <stgraber> Gadi: not right now but I can test it tomorrow at the office
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> alkisg: we should do the same with ltsp-common-functions
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| 16:48 | alkisg: and then call ltsp-common-functions in ltsp-config
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> Gadi, sounds good, I hope we'll see some speed improvements from that.
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| 16:49 | <johnny> now.. if only every distro used plymouth and upstart...
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| 16:50 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 16:50 | <johnny> one day ltsp will be able to have native upstart scripts in any case..
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| 16:50 | <stgraber> I already have a few at the office ;)
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| 16:50 | but that's for testing, nothing worth pushing upstream yet
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| 16:51 | most useful ones (that I'll probably push soon) are shutdown/reboot ones
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| 16:51 | they basically catch any shutdown/reboot and force it (as if you did a -f) so you won't get any squashfs error anymore.
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| 16:51 | (it also does a sync before doing so, just in case an external device is plugged in)
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| 16:53 | <johnny> one day.. it'd be great if the ltsp scripts did less :(
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| 16:53 | <Gadi> anyone know how to check for a built-in function in shell?
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| 16:53 | <johnny> and we could rely on the distro provided scripts more..
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| 16:54 | try to run it? :)
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| 16:54 | /me doesn't know if such things are stored anywhere..
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| 16:56 | <stgraber> Gadi: an hackish way to do it would be to try to export it
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| 16:56 | <stgraber> but I suspect there's an easier way
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| 16:56 | stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ltsp-trunk$ test() { echo test; }
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| 16:56 | stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ltsp-trunk$ export -f test
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| 16:56 | stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ltsp-trunk$ export -f test1
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| 16:56 | bash: export: test1: not a function
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| 16:59 | * Gadi thinks thats a bashism | |
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> Gadi, type function || echo "not defined" ?
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| 17:03 | <Gadi> takes too long
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> It's just one word, type.. :D
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| 17:04 | <Gadi> shell will search built in functions and then PATH
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| 17:04 | :P
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 17:04 | <Gadi> I suppose one could do: PATH="" function
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| 17:04 | :)
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| 17:06 | wow - thats a hack
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| 17:06 | <stgraber> looks like one
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| 17:08 | <Gadi> PATH="" boolean_is_true True 2>/dev/null|| echo Need to source ltsp-common-functions
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| 17:08 | lol
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| 17:09 | <stgraber> Gadi: declare -F | grep boolean_is_true
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| 17:09 | <Gadi> mine's faster
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| 17:09 | :)
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> sh: declare: not found
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| 17:09 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, it's a bashism
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> bash -c "declare -F..." :P
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| 17:11 | <stgraber> that's really really hackish and won't work unless boolean_is_true is exported ;)
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| 17:12 | <johnny> i'm sure somebody has searched this problem before
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| 17:13 | <stgraber> johnny: not according to google, only answers are slow ones ;) (usually involves parsing type)
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| 17:13 | <Gadi> pushed
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| 17:14 | now I will add alkisg's check for LTSP_CONFIG
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| 17:14 | <stgraber> .99 is gonna rock ;)
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| 17:41 | <Gadi> so, if we run cdpinger out of udev, do we still need all the cdpinger code in ltsp-setup?
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| 17:42 | ie. configure_localdev() (now in ltsp-init-common)?
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| 17:42 | lots of slow pgreps in there
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| 17:42 | <stgraber> we shouldn't have to
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| 17:43 | <Gadi> how about making the ltspfs_token and starting ltspfsd?
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| 17:44 | seems those are done in udev, too
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| 17:44 | we should be safe to omit configure_localdev || true
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| 17:45 | <stgraber> we can probably drop it and test
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| 17:46 | <Gadi> cool - something for tomorrow
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| 17:46 | gnight, all
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| 19:10 | <shogunx> hi guys
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| 19:11 | any way to define on a client by client basis the amount of nbs swap in /etc/ltsp/nbdswapd.conf?
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| 19:12 | to conserve disk space, i want one client to have a larger swap file than the others, as it houses a madwifi based access point as well.
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| 19:13 | <johnny> i don't think so
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| 19:13 | not yet anyways
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| 19:13 | stgraber, do you know anything about that?
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| 21:26 | <ball> How hard is it to find a reliable company to roll out (and perhaps support) ltsp?
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| 21:26 | (I'm in Illinois, USA)
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| 21:31 | <sbalneav> ball: I know that disklessworkstations.com provides thin clients and support.
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| 21:32 | Other than that, any firm in your area that can do GNU/Linux support should be able to do LTSP support
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| 21:32 | * ball ponders | |
| 21:33 | <ball> Finding a local firm that does Linux may be a challenge.
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| 21:33 | <stgraber> ball: how large a deployment are we talking about ? (My company does large-scale LTSP if you need several application servers and a good number of thin clients or things like load-balancing/high availability)
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| 21:33 | yeah, I know, self publicity ... ;)
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| 21:34 | <ball> Probably ten desktops to start with, a few more later. Two servers for availability.
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| 21:34 | Pondering ltsp Vs. Sun Ray
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| 21:35 | (Vs. ten new fat clients)
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| 21:36 | <stgraber> hmm, ok, then you're probably better with more regular LTSP, at least at the beginning. Diskless would probably be a good company as they offer both the hardware and the support for that.
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| 21:36 | well, I guess for LTSP vs Sun Ray, the main question is what you'll be doing with it
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| 21:36 | <ball> stgraber: can they do two servers lashed together, with fail-over?
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| 21:36 | stgraber: general office stuff mostly.
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| 21:36 | Current desktop image has Firefox, OpenOffice.org, the GIMP and a few other little things.
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| 21:37 | s/Firefox/SeaMonkey/
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| 21:37 | <stgraber> last I checked Sun Ray, was using a bitmap (VNC-like) protocol, it has its advantages (suspending/resuming sessions being the biggest one) but also a lot of issues (as in, anything multimedia will completely fail)
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| 21:37 | <ball> I'm told multimedia works fine on Sun Ray 2.
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| 21:38 | <stgraber> hmm, maybe they improved that then, would be great, because last I tried, going to youtube was almost impossible and would kill the server with only 2-3 users (not even speaking of the bandwidth usage and poor quality)
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| 21:38 | <ball> ...but we're a small site and Sun just refer us to resellers who don't seem up to much.
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| 21:39 | <stgraber> main advantage of LTSP is of course that it's Linux based, using standard hardware and that you can easily find someone to customize it to your needs
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| 21:39 | <ball> "easily" if we were in a large city perhaps.
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| 21:40 | Standard hardware and open source are both big attractions though.
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| 21:40 | <stgraber> well, it's still easier to find someone to customize a Linux distro than a closed source platform.
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| 21:40 | <ball> Sun Ray Server Software is closed, so that's a fail waiting to happen.
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| 21:41 | I've come close to rolling out more Windows machines just because I know we'll be able to get support for those.
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| 21:41 | I know it's the wrong solution, but it's almost the path of least resistance.
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| 21:43 | <stgraber> getting back to your fail-over question, that's typically something that's more ltsp-cluster specific (load-balanced application servers, sending everyone to the single working one in case of failure, ...) and the actual high availability is the kind of stuff Revolution Linux does (the company I work with and who developped ltsp-cluster)
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| 21:43 | <ball> I hear that's php-based. I'm not keen on php.
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| 21:44 | <stgraber> the control interface is PHP yes with a PostgreSQL backend. Load-balancer and other daemons we use are all python though.
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| 21:44 | <ball> Hmm...
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| 21:44 | <stgraber> the PHP choice for the Web UI was mostly made because it's the easiest to install and all packages are supported as part of Ubuntu's LTS (kind of important as we only work with Ubuntu ;))
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| 21:45 | <ball> Why use a web UI though?
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| 21:46 | <stgraber> when you have several hundreds or thousands of thin clients as our customers sometimes have, having them displayed in a tree-structure with configuration inheriting is really useful.
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| 21:46 | <ball> (Is the Web UI mandatory?)
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| 21:47 | <stgraber> the control center (web service + DB) is required as it's what's returning the configuration to the thin clients at boot time (based on their physical location, hardware or other defined groups)
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| 21:47 | you can directly change the configuration in the database if you prefer though
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| 21:48 | but the php code still needs to be there as it's called by the thin client to get its generated lts.conf and send/receive information when being used (such as logging who's logged on which thin client, checking for already opened session, sending hardware inventory, ...)
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| 21:49 | <stgraber> oh, btw, all that is opensource ;)
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| 21:49 | <ball> Hmm... I can learn to ignore its webification provided it's reliable enough.
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| 21:49 | (and I can get support for it)
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| 21:50 | <stgraber> well, considering we have it deployed at a few customers with several thousands (biggest is 5000) thin clients and over 50 applications servers in a HA setup, it's reliable ;)
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| 21:52 | <ball> That's encouraging.
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| 21:53 | I'll need to rewire our network, but that shouldn't be much of a chore.
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| 21:54 | stgraber: I'll have to look around for a company that supports smaller sites.
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| 21:56 | <stgraber> ball: sure, if you need something bigger or full high-availability setup at some point, please do no hesitate to poke me.
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| 21:57 | <ball> stgraber: I need failover at a minimum.
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| 21:57 | Two servers. I'd love to go with dual-socket, but may have to resort to two quad core machines.
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| 21:57 | (quad core, 1-way)
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| 21:58 | <stgraber> if you have powerful enough thin clients, running firefox as localapp will help a load decreasing the load on your network and on the server's CPU.
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| 21:58 | <ball> ...but then the terminal LAN would have to be routed to the Internet
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| 21:59 | <stgraber> we were at FETC last week, running between 40 and 60 Asus thin clients on a single Q6600 with 8GB of RAM. But that was with Firefox and Blender running as localapp.
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| 21:59 | * ball doesn't know what "Blender" is. | |
| 21:59 | <stgraber> right, you need your thin clients to have internet access then, guess it depends on your security standards then
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| 21:59 | ball: 3D design application
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| 21:59 | <ball> ok
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| 22:00 | stgraber: wouldn't it also confuse the users if Firefox were run on the terminal? File -> Save... where's my home folder?
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| 22:00 | <stgraber> ok, looks like after breaking the Ubuntu builders, fixing them, I finally have a new LTSP snapshot in my PPA ! alkisg will be happy. Also fixed a good old bug where the initramfs wouldn't get rebuilt after updating the package !
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| 22:00 | ball: home folder is mounted over sshfs
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| 22:01 | ball: so the user has access to his documents and firefox shares its configuration with the application server
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| 22:02 | <ball> I only have a few users, so I think I'll keep it on the server if possible.
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| 22:02 | Need to find servers, switches and UPS.
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| 22:02 | ...and software.
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 22:06 | <ball> Perhaps HP DL160s or something
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| 22:07 | <stgraber> vagrantc: good catch (screen-x-common)
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i'm working on some others :)
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| 22:09 | sometimes, i feel that is my role...
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| 22:13 | <ball> I have to go. Back later.
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| 22:14 | <vagrantc> we can probably ditch all the 'if [ "True" != "$LTSP_CONFIG" ]; then' stuff, as it's implemented directly in ltsp_config now ...
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| 22:15 | though it'd be at a slight performance cost, but overall simpler maintenance.
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| 22:16 | <stgraber> if it makes it cleaner and doesn't add a lot of external calls (grep/awk/sed/... as we saw in my bootcharts), I +1
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> it would add some additional sourcing calls, but not grep/awk/sed
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| 22:16 | so a few extra filesystem calls
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| 22:17 | <stgraber> right, sourcing a file is ok I guess
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| 22:18 | <vagrantc> overall stuff's looking nice.
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| 22:20 | stgraber: i poked the debian nbd maintainer (maybe upstream now?), Wouter Verhelst, about the nbd-proxy stuff, and he was going to ask around a bit maybe with the nbd kernel developer about how to handle that stuff better.
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| 22:22 | <stgraber> vagrantc: ok, my view on how things should be isn't exactly clear at the moment, the nbd kernel part is doing really weird things, especially that -persist code ;)
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| 22:22 | vagrantc: so I'm not yet sure if the solution is to port what we fixed with nbd-proxy to the kernel module or to move some stuff from the kernel module to userspace
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| 22:23 | anyway, it wasn't likely we'd have anything fixed in the kernel before the LTS release, so fixing in the userspace was the easiest :)
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| 22:23 | <vagrantc> and my looking at the code was useless, but i'd figure i'd rope in the few folks who i knew might make sense of the code :)
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| 22:24 | <stgraber> right, we still have one bug to catch at the moment (the proxy returning an extra byte of information when we have two pending requests at the moment of a crash) but I hope to have that fixed tomorrow and so will be able to finally tag .99 ;)
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| 22:25 | <stgraber> (and yeah, even though the bug seems pretty hard to reproduce, it's happening way too often to just ignore it ;))
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| 22:26 | <shogunx> anybody in need of servers on the cheap check this out: http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/62025
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| 22:26 | i have bought and used several of these no issues
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| 22:26 | <vagrantc> and wrap up a few bugfixes from 5.1.99 and then call it 5.2.0 :)
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| 22:26 | <stgraber> that's the plan
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| 22:27 | I hope to have 5.2 out either next week or the week after and have it rock solid ;)
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| 22:29 | <vagrantc> seems like someone introduced some new translation strings or changed something...
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| 22:30 | <stgraber> probably the fat client stuff
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| 22:31 | <vagrantc> i was hoping to have updated translations by 5.2.0 timeframe...
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| 22:31 | also, i didn't want to futz with the ALTLinux translations at all, since we haven't seen any activity in over a year from that distro.
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| 22:31 | <stgraber> Is it breaking a lot of strings ?
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| 22:32 | <vagrantc> close to two years
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| 22:32 | they introduced a TON of strings.
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| 22:33 | i *think* some of which are fuzzied variations on some of the strings we just changed... hmmmm.
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| 22:35 | ah yes, at least two of them are copies.
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| 22:35 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I just merged fr.po with an updated template, I don't have any fuzzy string there
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| 22:35 | <vagrantc> stgraber: the weird thing is, i didn't have any updated strings when i made the commits ...
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| 22:36 | stgraber: but just look at the .po file ... probably roughtly 25-30% are ALTLinux specific.
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| 22:37 | <stgraber> that's really weird, doing a update-po gets me some fuzzy strings for pretty much all languages except french ;)
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| 22:37 | <stgraber> german and spanish are ok too
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| 22:38 | stgraber@castiana:~/data/code/ltsp-trunk/po$ grep fuzzy * | awk '{print $1}' | cut -d : -f1 | sort | uniq -c | grep -v pot 21 ca.po 21 cs.po 21 fi.po 21 pl.po 25 pt_BR.po 21 vi.po
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| 22:38 | ... so much for irssi copy/pasting
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| 22:38 | <vagrantc> i'm going through and updating some of the altlinux and gentoo plugins that just have pointlessly fuzzied strings
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| 22:38 | <stgraber> http://pastebin.com/f7421f50b
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| 22:39 | number of fuzzy string after a template update + po update for languages affected
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| 22:39 | doesn't that match the languages where you haven't received new translations yet ?
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| 22:39 | (haven't looked at the commit log, just wondering)
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> stgraber: looks about right, yeah.
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| 22:41 | pt_BR is so far behind.
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| 22:55 | <vagrantc> stgraber: oh no... i just remembered that the debian french translation team contacted me the very next day saying they were working on it...
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| 23:15 | <vagrantc> ok, those last commits reduced the overall translated strings by 4-5.
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| 23:15 | since some were merely out of sync with the various distro plugins.
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| 23:20 | heh. of course, no commits on ltsp-docs for weeks, i release a new version, and the commits roll in :)
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