IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 September 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:32 | <Zaga> hi ppl
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| 08:32 | have a question, I need to run xrandr to set a resolution in a thin client, I'm using LDM_SESSION in lts.conf to do this
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| 08:33 | but the script does not seem to run
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| 08:33 | any ideias?
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| 08:33 | ideas?
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| 08:52 | <faf> Hi. Just about to ditch my Edubuntu 13.04 test install, cause there are to many problems. I have been thinking of going the route LTSP-pnp or another simplified setup. Is Debian Wheezy LTSP stable?
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| 08:53 | <Zaga> yes
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| 08:54 | I'm currently using it and solved many of the problems I had we graphics cards and dual monitor setups
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| 08:54 | <faf> I'm alittle confused and split between Ubuntu and Debian.
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| 08:55 | Zaga: are you using the greek repo?
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| 08:55 | that is if your running pnp
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| 08:59 | Zaga: what setup are you using, just plain LTSP on Wheezy or using the LTPS-pnp setup, aka https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 09:03 | The problem i'm facing with edubuntu, is exactly display related problems :) - and it's also faily complexed compared to a manual build system.
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| 09:17 | <highvoltage> faf: what part is more 'complexed compared to a manual build system'?
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| 09:21 | <faf> well it comes with isc-dhcp-server as a dependency, and if your going the dnsmasq route, then it req more work than just to build the things you need.
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| 09:21 | <Zaga> I'm using wheezy with wheezy-bacports
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| 09:21 | I just installed firmware-nonfree
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| 09:22 | and it all works out of the box
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| 09:22 | with a few exceptions I have to put in lts.conf the xrandr options for some machines, using XRANDR_COMMAND_0
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| 09:23 | <faf> I had a hard time removing the isc-dhcp-server
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| 09:23 | <Zaga> just disable it
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| 09:23 | I did that on debian using rcconf
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| 09:24 | since I have the dhcp server on another server different than the ltsp server
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| 09:24 | <faf> I did, but it kept running, had to do the rcconf many times?
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| 09:24 | <Zaga> no, just once
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| 09:24 | <faf> yes, I have another dhcp too
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| 09:25 | but now my problems is with graphic cards on the thin and fat clients.
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| 09:25 | thats why I will go with wheezy instead, and just install what I need
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| 09:25 | <Zaga> the problem with graphics, is that you should have the latest kernel and xorg drivers installed
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| 09:26 | I had those problems also
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| 09:26 | <faf> also 13.04 has allllooott of updates
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| 09:26 | <Zaga> but it all went away with wheezy, and backports using latest kernel
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| 09:27 | <faf> Edubuntu looks nice and I want to use it, but it takes some time to get there.
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| 09:27 | A simple setup is a better way to do it.
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| 09:29 | Zaga: did you have any other problems with xrandr?
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| 09:30 | <Zaga> with squeeze yes
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| 09:31 | cutting screens, not doing nothing, etc
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| 09:34 | <faf> It has been many years since my last LTSP install, and I'm just testing to see the progress. I think it has become more simple to get things done, especially with dnsmasq.
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| 09:36 | <faf> I will build a wheezy with backports.
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| 09:36 | Thx for your help
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| 12:39 | <faf> hi. anyone had success with linux-mint-mate? - maybe even with v.15?
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| 17:14 | <muppis> vagrantc, you might be already aware that your how to fails when building in Ubuntu?
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> muppis: never tried
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| 17:15 | <muppis> And even I build in Debian, it hanged in mount loop during boot. Device or resource busy.
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> worked for me... probably some undocumented assumption
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| 17:15 | it was a pretty rough sketch
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| 17:16 | <muppis> I'll try once more, but not today.
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> it's a shame, the raspberry pi hardware was practically obsolete before it was even released...
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| 17:16 | <muppis> Yep.
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> which makes compatibility a lot more difficult
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| 17:21 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: I have installed a test install of linux mint debian... gonna try it out the box to build a client and see what it throws
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| 17:23 | I had another conversation with alkisg, which seemed a little more promising. I am going to try his suggestions, and will update my branch again
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| 17:27 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: cool :)
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| 17:27 | bennabiy: alkisg usually has good suggestions :)
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| 19:09 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: when I try to do an install in LMDE, first off, I have to manually edit /etc/default/isc-dhcp-server to tell it to use the /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf and then when I try to build... this is what I get
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> that's normal for Debian
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| 19:12 | unless you made more code changes, it'll be building a Debian environment with the Ubuntu plugins...
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| 19:12 | so it's not likely to work.
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| 19:12 | <bennabiy> ok. and then I get http://pastebin.com/PCQ2MhuN
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| 19:13 | doesnt even get to where it detects vendor
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| 19:24 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: did you see the message?
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| 19:26 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: what version of LTSP?
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| 19:26 | bennabiy: ltsp-info
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| 19:27 | <bennabiy> 5.4.2
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| 19:27 | -2
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| 19:27 | server standalone
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| 19:27 | I installed ltsp-server-standalone and openssh-server
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| 19:27 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: that's a pretty old version of ltsp
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| 19:27 | <bennabiy> Here is my pastebin of output
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| 19:28 | <vagrantc> there have been several key bugs fixed since that version
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| 19:28 | i thought LMDE followed debian testing?
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| 19:29 | <bennabiy> http://pastebin.com/5y2uywNM
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| 19:30 | I do not know too much about the debian side of LM
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| 19:30 | I am just trying to see if I can roll out compatibility for both
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: my hunch is it didn't run the debootstrap phase yet, thus couldn't create /etc/hosts
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| 19:31 | <bennabiy> if not, I will stick to just modifying the code for Ubuntu flavor
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> my hunch is it didn't run any distro plugins
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| 19:31 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 19:31 | <vagrantc> only the common plugins
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| 19:31 | <bennabiy> It got stuck in the common plugins
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| 19:32 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: the LinuxMint plugins should error out if codename=debian
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| 19:32 | bennabiy: until it supports it
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| 19:33 | bennabiy: dunno what changes you made that you haven't pushed yet.
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| 19:34 | <bennabiy> This is just pulling a stock install from repository of ltsp. No hacking by me
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| 19:34 | I wanted to find out how broken debian is ( seems much more broken than the ubuntu )
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| 19:34 | LMDE I mean
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: i.e. case $MINTDIST in ... debian)
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| 19:35 | that's because it's trying to run code from the non-existant LinuxMint dir.
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| 19:35 | <bennabiy> even though it is bombing in common?
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| 19:35 | <alkisg> You need to patch detect_vendor() as the first step, before even trying anything more with mint...
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| 19:35 | <vagrantc> oh, the Debian and Ubuntu packaging could install a different LinuxMint dir...
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| 19:36 | <alkisg> Or at least set VENDOR
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| 19:36 | <bennabiy> alkisg: I am trying a stock install of LMDE, with a stock download from repository of ltsp-server-standalone to see where it breaks
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> if detect_vendor faked the VENDOR to be LinuxMintDebian and LinuxMintUbuntu, then we could have a separate list of plugins for each
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| 19:36 | <bennabiy> unhacked, no LinuxMint folder etc
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| 19:36 | <alkisg> Mint's lsb_release is broken, that's a known bug that's filed in launchpad
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| 19:37 | You can't go on while that bug exists, without workarounds...
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| 19:37 | Try with VENDOR=Debian ltsp-build-client ...
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> yeah, LinuxMint needs to fix their lsb_release output to distinguish LinuxMint from LMDE
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| 19:37 | then this would be easy.
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| 19:37 | in the ID field, at least (obviously we can tell the difference in other ways).
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| 19:38 | <alkisg> If they want to claim to be another distro, then they need to send pathes to debootstrap
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| 19:38 | Until then, I don't think that separate dirs for mint are necessary... just a couple of workarounds...
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| 19:38 | * alkisg didn't phrase all that very well... but anyways | |
| 19:39 | <bennabiy> alkisg: that is why I wonder how much we want to patch the detect_vendor() function... if it is just a workaround, it could get messy in the future to unwrangle the workarounds once mint gets it together
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| 19:39 | I submitted a request for them to work with the ltsp devs to make a compatible system
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| 19:39 | we will see how far that goes
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| 19:39 | * bennabiy doesn't have his hopes up | |
| 19:39 | <alkisg> bennabiy: if mint gets fixed, then the workarounds just won't match their broken distname
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| 19:39 | So they won't do anything in the future...
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: you should note the first thing is to fix the lsb_release output.
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| 19:40 | bennabiy: to the mint devs
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| 19:40 | <bennabiy> Is there a place to document all the hacks to fix this, so that we can undo them once fixed?
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| 19:40 | <alkisg> The source code :)
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| 19:40 | * vagrantc still thinks moving forward with only the Linux Mint ubuntu variant is worth doing as a sub-dir. | |
| 19:40 | <alkisg> # TODO: remove this once that happens...
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| 19:40 | <bennabiy> would you suggest LinuxMint and LinuxMintDE for lsb_release?
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: that's reasonable-ish
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| 19:42 | bennabiy: and they'll need to use a codename other than "debian" for LMDE
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| 19:54 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 19:55 | * bennabiy agrees with vagrantc... | |
| 19:59 | <vagrantc> though really, LinuxMint should decide weather it's a distro or just a bunch of add-on packages...
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| 19:59 | alkisg: do you know where the mint lsb_release launchpad bug is?
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| 20:05 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: I was going to ask the same thing
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| 20:07 | alkisg: when I issue VENDOR=Debian ltsp-... it gets me to saying I need to --dist it
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| 20:08 | <bennabiy> with VENDOR=Debian ltsp-build-client --arch=i386 --dist=sid it is building...
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> yeah, that should work reasonably well ... still missing a few patches
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| 20:10 | or --dist wheezy or --dist jessie (presuming the version of debootstrap has jessie)
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| 20:11 | it wouldn't be hard to package up support for LinuxMint as a separate package, and then you could install the ubuntu or debian variant of the support package...
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| 20:11 | <bennabiy> under debian_version it is wheezy/sid
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| 20:11 | <vagrantc> that's pretty old.
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| 20:12 | wheezy's been released as stable since may.
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| 20:12 | <bennabiy> I think this release is dated march
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| 20:12 | * vagrantc is unimpressed | |
| 20:12 | <vagrantc> they should at least make an update when the thing they're basing it on is released...
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| 20:13 | LMDE is more outdated than Debian stable. wear it like a badge! :)
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| 20:13 | <bennabiy> It might be newer, I could have misread it.
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| 20:13 | I am not defending the LMDE, I am just trying to make ltsp work :)
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| 20:14 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: if debian_version says wheezy/sid, they haven't updated their packages since the debian release.
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| 20:14 | bennabiy: it should say 7.1 if it's kept current.
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| 20:14 | or at least 7.0
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| 20:14 | wheezy/sid is the name during development
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| 20:17 | <bennabiy> I do not know much about how they roll out updates on LMDE, I personally do not use it
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| 20:18 | Unlike Ubuntu/Mint... If I want to run Debian, I will run Debian, If I want to run Ubuntu, I will run mint
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| 20:19 | debian uses nfs?
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> by default NFS, it is easy to use either.
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| 20:20 | either NFS or NBD
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| 20:21 | <bennabiy> http://pastebin.com/AchMBARj
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| 20:21 | at end of build
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| 20:22 | <alkisg> vagrantc: nope sorry I don't have it handy I saw it a couple of days ago when we last talked with bennabiy about it
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| 20:23 | bennabiy: if VENDOR=xxx ltsp-build-client --arch --dist is good enough for LMDE, then maybe VENDOR=Ubuntu --arch --dist will be good enough for the Ubuntu Mint variant too?
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| 20:23 | * vagrantc has a lot of difficulties with launchppad's search features | |
| 20:24 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: it's telling you how to configure NFS, it doesn't think you have NFS configured for LTSP
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> bennabiy: ah, and you'll need some of the EARLY_MIRRORS or EXTRA_MIRRORS too
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| 20:25 | VENDOR along with those 2-3 parameters should have the same effect as your proposed branch, right?
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| 20:25 | <bennabiy> I try to boot the client, and it keeps repeating NFS over TCP not available <SERVERIP>
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| 20:27 | <alkisg> So maybe LMDE+Ubuntu Mint support can just be a configuration file or a wiki paragraph?
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| 20:27 | <vagrantc> there are some other things, such as the artwork and fatclient plugins that need differences
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| 20:27 | bennabiy: did you configure NFS ?
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| 20:27 | bennabiy: is the <SERVERIP> the ip address of your server?
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| 20:27 | <bennabiy> I did what it told me to do, still nothing
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| 20:27 | yes
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| 20:27 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: did you restart nfs-kernel-server?
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| 20:27 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:28 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: try restart instead of reload
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| 20:28 | <bennabiy> that did it
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| 20:29 | my client started loading right away
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| 20:29 | It worked
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| 20:30 | I loaded into my user
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| 20:30 | So for the debian version, it needs a VENDOR patch, for the Ubuntu version, it just needs a couple dist patches
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| 20:30 | debian = vendor and dist patches
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> bennabiy: try creating an /etc/ltsp/ltsp-build-client.conf file
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| 20:31 | There, put VENDOR=Debian (or Ubuntu),
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| 20:31 | DIST, EXTRA_MIRRORS, LATE_PACKAGES etc
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| 20:32 | It should be possible to build a very mintish chroot with just that .conf file
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| 20:32 | If that works as I think it will, /me thinks a wiki page would be enough... :)
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| 20:32 | ...but of course I wouldn't mind at all if you guys want to commit it as code instead of a configuration file...
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| 20:33 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients also suggests using ltsp-build-client.conf...
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| 20:33 | <bennabiy> As a person who would actively be using this, I would like it in code so that on each system I do not have to patch in the file
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| 20:33 | <alkisg> Some of that code for that would belong in mint though, not in ltsp
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| 20:34 | <bennabiy> I am going to be rolling out installs of this on a fairly regular basis
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| 20:34 | <alkisg> If they don't have things like a mint-desktop package, then you'd have to special-case everything they do wrong in the ltsp code
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| 20:34 | And when they fix those, it'll be harder to update the code than to just update the .conf file
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| 20:35 | <slackish> I have a patch I'd like to submit, but do not have the slightest idea on the proper method of submitting it.
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> You can start with filing a bug report for it
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| 20:35 | !ltsp-bug
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| 20:35 | <ltsp> ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 20:37 | <bennabiy> I would be fine with a conf, and a check in the code for a mint install, and then to place the conf file in place with the basic settings there
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| 20:38 | but you would end up getting all the ubuntu artwork, or debian artwork
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| 20:38 | etc
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| 20:39 | I wish I could have a folder for Mint and within it, I could have the configs check for the faulty codename and apply configs to it
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| 20:40 | <alkisg> The artwork is part of the -desktop package
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| 20:40 | <slackish> alkisg: thanks. bug report submitted
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| 20:40 | <bennabiy> since both LMDE and ubuntu version use the same LinuxMint ID
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| 20:40 | <alkisg> If mint doesn't have a -desktop package, then it needs special-casing...
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| 20:40 | slackish: url?
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| 20:41 | <slackish> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1220432
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| 20:41 | <bennabiy> it has a mintdesktop package
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: the way you did LMDE with VENDOR will just be straight Debian, not with any LMDE packages...
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| 20:41 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:41 | which is why I want to lean away from just telling it a config
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| 20:42 | <bennabiy> I am trying to avoid someone on mint from having to identify their distribution based on debian or ubuntu
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| 20:44 | * alkisg sees a mate-desktop package, that can be used for fat clients | |
| 20:44 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:44 | I would not recommend cinnamon as it is totally unstable at this point
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| 20:44 | mate and mint go very well together
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| 20:45 | + ltsp = great!
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| 20:46 | <alkisg> So... for the artwork, the patch would go in Ubuntu/030-artwork
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| 20:47 | It just needs to match mate-desktop there too, and then the artwork will automatically be installed
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| 20:48 | VENDOR and DIST would go in detect_vendor (in any case, either with a separate linuxmint dir or not),
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| 20:48 | ...1 script for the extra mirror...
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| 20:49 | ...what other special packages does mint need, except for mate-desktop?
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| 20:50 | Just mintdesktop?
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> E.g. how does "mintmenu" get installed? Manually from some seeds? I don't see a hard dependency on it...
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| 20:53 | <bennabiy> I need to look into it more
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> "aptitude why mintmenu => unable to find a reason to install mintmenu"
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| 20:54 | <bennabiy> mint menu is a nice graphical menu
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| 20:54 | <alkisg> tasksel --list-tasks | grep mint ==> nothing there either
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| 20:55 | I suspect they're using seeds to install their packages, making it very hard to create a mint chroot (with or without ltsp)
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| 20:56 | <bennabiy> there is a mint plymouth, which can be grabbed... and the mate-desktop with the mintmenu
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> Installing mate-desktop doesn't install mintmenu though
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> There's no dependency there
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| 20:56 | <bennabiy> nope
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> So you'd need a configuration file anyway, if you want e.g. mintmenu automatically installed on fat clients
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| 20:57 | Or, a bug report against mint, so that they follow the same practices that all other flavors follow...
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| 20:57 | Even lubuntu has tasks for installing its desktop
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> I think a good phrasing would be:
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| 20:59 | "To create an edubuntu chroot, I run debootstrap, and then install edubuntu-desktop. What do I need to do after debootstrap to create a complete mint chroot?"
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| 21:00 | Once you get the answer to that question (maybe from the mint devs? or by looking at their seeds / cd building code?), then we'll know what exactly is needed for ltsp chroots too...
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| 21:01 | <bennabiy> Do you think until I can figure out all the fatclient facts ( which I do not use at all) that at least my basic patch could be included to make thinclients work?
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| 21:01 | I am still looking into patching the right plymouth in place
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| 21:01 | but at a basic level, it works
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| 21:01 | as a starting point
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| 21:02 | * bennabiy recalls vagrantc's comment about perfection being the enemy of good | |
| 21:03 | <bennabiy> I need to go for now, I will be back later (after you probably go to bed) but if you have thoughts, I will be logged in listening
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| 21:08 | <bennabiy> just emailed root@linuxmint.com
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| 21:10 | * vagrantc chuckles | |
| 21:11 | <alkisg> (12:01:22 πμ) bennabiy: I am still looking into patching the right plymouth in place ==> that's just the artwork package
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| 21:11 | You can put that in 030-artwork like I said above
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| 21:11 | It just needs to match mate-desktop too
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| 21:12 | (the code there tries to select the chroot artwork based on the installed -desktop package of the server)
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> in theory, you could have mate-desktop from an external ubuntu repository.
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| 21:12 | on an ubuntu server...
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| 21:13 | * vagrantc is sure ubuntu will love having that in there... | |
| 21:13 | <alkisg> And then you'd want the mate plymouth logo, there's nothing mint-specific there...
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| 21:14 | The only really-mint-specific things I've seen so far, is the broken lsb_release which would be handled in detect_vendor, and the extra mirror, which needs 1 file
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| 21:14 | The extra packages will need another one because the mint-desktop package doesn't have the appropriate dependencies
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| 21:14 | But that's about all there is for mint support, afaik...
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| 21:15 | * vagrantc suspects there are other subtle tweaks somewhere... | |
| 21:16 | <vagrantc> like they tend to mark certain packages on hold, like the kernel
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| 21:16 | <alkisg> We'd need to see their CD building code to make sure
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| 21:16 | <vagrantc> yeah
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> I understand their need for pinning for LMDE, but not for the Ubuntu variant...
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| 21:17 | LMDE == sid, so they want less frequent updates for more stability, ok...
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| 21:17 | ...but why pinning for released ubuntu versions?
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| 21:18 | * vagrantc leaves that as an excercise for the reader | |
| 21:19 | <alkisg> http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Olivia
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| 21:20 | https://github.com/tuquito/ubuntu-system-adjustments
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> dunno why i seem so interested in this, i've never seen mint, i'm not particularly into mint, there are some things that seem very wrong with mint, and yet... i guess i just feel it's important for LTSP to be cross-distro.
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| 21:21 | and it seems like it shouldn't be too hard
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| 21:22 | * alkisg doesn't care much when "supporting a distro" is as simple as creating an ltsp-build-client.conf file... :) | |
| 21:23 | <alkisg> I like the mint interface, and mate-desktop seems very nice for ltsp, yet I don't know, all those feel... undermaintained? :-/
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| 21:25 | Hehe... /etc/xdg/autostart/mint-xhost-plus.desktop:
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| 21:25 | Exec=xhost +
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| 21:25 | :)
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| 21:27 | * vagrantc cries | |
| 21:29 | * alkisg waves goodnight to all | |
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| 21:33 | <christophe_y2k> hi all, have a problem on gentoo linux, my thin amd64 client stay on console at boot , any idea ?
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