IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 November 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:55 | <alkisg> !xauthority
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| 02:55 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
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| 04:39 | <Trixboxer> Hi, LTSP was running good so far, but today few machines started hanging... when I checked the top -c on fat-clients the load is due to nbd-client and sshd
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| 04:40 | will nfs solve this issue ?
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| 04:43 | <alkisg> Trixboxer: hanging <> load
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| 04:43 | Was that a complete hang?
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| 04:43 | <Trixboxer> sometimes
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| 04:43 | sometimes display gets scrambled
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| 04:44 | and sometimes nothings works
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| 04:44 | <alkisg> That doesn't sound like a load problem
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| 04:45 | It sounds more like a networking problem or a driver problem
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| 04:46 | <Trixboxer> I meant fat-client load
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| 04:47 | <alkisg> Scrambled display, hanging etc wouldn't be caused just by heavy load
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| 05:09 | <Trixboxer> alkisg: scrambled display might be Display driver problem, but the fat-client is facing a load and getting slow
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| 05:10 | firefox, ssh, nbdclient are running constantly
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| 05:22 | <muppis> Anyone made script for upstart in 10.04 ?
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| 05:25 | <Trixboxer> muppis: Whats that ?
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| 05:27 | <rickogden> muppis: do you mean a script to run at startup?
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| 05:27 | <muppis> rickogden, yes.
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| 05:27 | <rickogden> startup of what: server, ltsp login, client?
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| 05:28 | <muppis> Instability problem with cups and I'd like move it from /etc/init.d -script to /etc/init to gain respawn ability.
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| 05:30 | <rickogden> on the server?
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| 05:30 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 05:31 | <rickogden> when do you want the script to be executed? On boot?
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| 05:31 | or on login from client?
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| 05:33 | <muppis> On boot of server, like /etc/init.d/ -scripts.
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| 05:34 | <rickogden> ok, the easiest thing is to look at how those scripts are written and then write a new one as appropriate
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| 05:35 | got to run, back later!
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| 05:35 | <muppis> Well, its already done for Natty (11.04), but that script doesn't work for 10.04. So it is possible to do after all or do had upgrade upstart also?
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> Trixboxer: if you close firefox are you still getting a load?
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| 05:39 | muppis: can you pastebin the 2 scripts? (lucid/natty)?
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| 05:40 | <Trixboxer> alkisg: firefox load gets reduced but other processes remains same
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| 05:40 | chrome was an option to try but it is not running.. It will need nbd
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| 05:41 | <alkisg> To try what?
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| 05:41 | <Trixboxer> alkisg: to try it as a replacement of firefox
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> Chrome won't work with sshfs without workarounds
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| 05:42 | It does run with nfs
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| 05:42 | nbd is for the root file system, it's irrelevant to the apps
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| 05:42 | So it's (NBD) AND (SSHFS OR NFS)
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| 05:43 | (for Ubuntu, at least, and without modifying any scripts)
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| 05:43 | <Trixboxer> hmm then why my ssh processes is jumping up.. will find out
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| 05:43 | np
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| 05:44 | <mnemoc> how much memory a client needs for plain and boring 2d work?
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| 05:44 | <alkisg> mnemoc: the bare minimum is 64M
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| 05:45 | With 128MB it's much easier
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| 05:45 | <mnemoc> cool, thanks :)
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| 05:45 | I was wondering if 128M was really enough :)
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| 05:46 | <alkisg> mnemoc: you'll only get crashes with 128MB if much X memory is used for pixmaps caching, e.g. in a few rare web sites while using firefox (chrome doesn't have that problem)
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| 05:46 | E.g. if you try to visit a page where the admin has a 4000x4000px background, firefox will crash
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| 05:47 | <mnemoc> fair enough
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| 05:48 | does an small DOM for swapping make sense, or it's just a waste?
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| 05:49 | <alkisg> There's a command line option in firefox that disables pixmap caching, but it makes it a little slower so I'm not even using that with 64/128mb clients
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| 05:49 | You could also enable nbd swapping if you want, it helps sometimes
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| 05:50 | <mnemoc> this world sounds fun :)
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| 05:52 | <elias_a> alkisg: Did you have the time to try the Google Maps thing?
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| 05:52 | <alkisg> elias_a: a teacher here started it yesterday, http://goo.gl/maps/nOoQ
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| 05:52 | Thanks for the idea!
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| 05:52 | <elias_a> It seems to be a good idea as I showed mine 2 hours ago and it got tweeted right away ;-)
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| 05:53 | <alkisg> elias_a: btw, there's an option to get a small url like the above for your map
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| 05:53 | <elias_a> alkisg: Cool - how do you do that?
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| 05:54 | I just used bit.ly type services...
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> I got a "new" menu on top of google apps, and there was a google app for short URLs there
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| 05:54 | *on top of google maps
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| 05:54 | So I just activated it and it gave me the URL...
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| 05:57 | <elias_a> Thanks!
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| 06:16 | <elias_a> alkisg: Did the teacher think that the idea was fun?
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> elias_a: sure, he was first thinking to make a spreadsheet with the schools, but as soon as he heard the google maps idea, he immediately started it...
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| 06:17 | Now let's hope schools will actually put themselves in the map :)
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| 06:17 | <elias_a> I try to promote this idea through a couple of channels: FSFE Edu-team and KDE Edu team.
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| 06:17 | <alkisg> elias_a: what's your short url?
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| 06:18 | Try also the edubuntu mailing list
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| 06:20 | <elias_a> Let's make this thing again in english after getting it running nationally....
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| 06:21 | alkisg: Should the short URL come to the same place as the old long one?
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| 06:21 | <alkisg> I think it automatically detects the pins and magnifies accordingly, but I'm not sure, I haven't tested much
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| 06:22 | Are you putting only LTSP installations in there? Or other non-LTSP Linux installations too?
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| 06:22 | <elias_a> alkisg: No I mean that where should the short format URL be presented?
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| 06:22 | Actually there are some schools who are running FLOSS sw on Windows, too...
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| 06:22 | Or at least was...
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| 06:23 | <alkisg> We're only putting there labs that use LTSP + our sch-scripts
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| 06:24 | About the short URL, I'm using it when I want to give people a link to the map. But I don't see it in the google maps UI after the initial time I activated the short URL app...
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| 06:26 | http://www.technixupdate.com/share-google-map-short-url-link-for-located-address/
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| 06:47 | <mnemoc> can the clients use an ssh key for "pre authentication"?
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| 06:47 | (ubuntu)
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| 07:00 | <elias_a> alkisg: http://goo.gl/maps/YiFQ
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| 07:01 | I had to restart Firefox in order to get the short URL to work.
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| 07:06 | <mnemoc> any hint about how to accept login/password when from certain computers, and key-only from the rest? :( (ltsp ubuntu 10.10)
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| 07:07 | or to let the clients use a key to a single account and su - to the real to test the password?
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> mnemoc: key-only? you mean ssh?
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| 07:16 | <mnemoc> yes
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| 07:17 | <alkisg> mnemoc: ldm doesn't use ssh keys
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| 07:17 | It can use autologin information, if you like...
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| 07:18 | <mnemoc> i need LDM to do password auth, but I can't allow everyone to ssh from "outside"...
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| 07:19 | <robehend1> mnemoc: Should'nt your firewall be taking care of that?
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> mnemoc: then just modify sshd_config accordingly
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| 07:20 | <mnemoc> alkisg: i didn't know sshd_config accepted conditionals..
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| 07:20 | <alkisg> It has a pretty wide range of configuration options. E.g. listen to that card, allow key-only authentication from outside, etc etc
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| 07:21 | <mnemoc> nice, thanks, i'll read it's documentation deeperly
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| 07:24 | <muppis> alkisg, those scripts are out-of-box scripts from cups -package. Problem is why upstart in Lucid doesn't see that what is used in Natty. Am I missing some configuration or what?
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| 07:24 | <mnemoc> Match Introduces a conditional block. \o/
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| 07:28 | yes yes yes /me does the dance of success
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| 07:44 | <arthurl> hi, it is expected that the root's .ssh/authorized_keys be deleted on thin clients ? (using ltsp-cluster)
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| 08:35 | <AndyGraybeal> wow there is a ltspcluster.org :)
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| 08:35 | er -cluster
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| 08:35 | <arthurl> AndyGraybeal, are you talking about me ?
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| 08:36 | <AndyGraybeal> well, you spurred my curiosity to look it up, but i don't know your answer.
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| 08:36 | <arthurl> ah ok
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| 08:37 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm still getting a handle on things without the cluster :)(
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| 08:37 | i would like to run a high-availablilty cluster though, just in case one of the machines has a problem, i have a backup machine ready to go.
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| 08:38 | i dont' know how to connect the dots though.
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| 08:38 | <robehend1> clusters are lovely that way. Follow the cluster wiki up on UbuntuLTSP wiki, it walks you right through
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| 08:38 | load balancing, the whole she-bang
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| 08:39 | <AndyGraybeal> i thought that the UbuntuLTSP wiki was unfinished.
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| 08:39 | <robehend1> Not that I've noticed, but I could be mistaken
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| 08:39 | <AndyGraybeal> maybe it's been updated since i last read it :)
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| 08:44 | is there a configuration for high-availability or just load balancing?
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| 08:45 | <robehend1> What i've found is mostly load balancing. However, couldnt you help with high-availability with more cluster points?
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| 08:45 | I see what your asking for, and am sure theres someway in the DHCP setup to make it work, but it goes beyond my understanding at this time.
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| 08:45 | <AndyGraybeal> i was hoping to run just two machines, and if one fails, the other takes over or something like that.
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| 08:45 | <robehend1> that sort of defeats the purpose of a cluster, does it not?
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| 08:46 | <AndyGraybeal> i don't have a large setup, but i don't want to go through the pain of dealing with an outage.
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| 08:46 | <robehend1> since the benefit is allowing to share the load out to many, not as powerful machines, instead of going with a beast/
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| 08:46 | <AndyGraybeal> i don't tihnk it defeats the purpose at all, it's just a different type of cluster.
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| 08:46 | i have 5 clients, max.
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| 08:47 | maybe 10 in two years. i don't need much of a beast.
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| 08:47 | <robehend1> i'd recommend looking into setting it up on a virtual disk then. Quick and easy switch over if you do have a failure. For that low amount of clients, it appears overkill to do much more
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| 08:48 | <AndyGraybeal> and a virtual disk would be...?
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| 08:48 | LVM ?
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| 08:48 | zfs ?
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| 08:48 | <robehend1> Set up your entire LTSP as a virtual machine
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| 08:48 | using KVM or VMware or some such.
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| 08:48 | <AndyGraybeal> ah virtual machine
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| 08:48 | what if the machine dies that's running the virtual machine?
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| 08:48 | <robehend1> Backups.
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| 08:48 | <AndyGraybeal> but that means downtime.
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| 08:49 | <robehend1> If you have virtual disk backed up, we're talking 20 min downtime, max.
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| 08:49 | if you have the new hardware ready to go, of course.
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| 08:49 | <AndyGraybeal> yea, exactly, so i would lik to make it 'hot' if i could.
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| 08:49 | with a HA cluster.
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| 08:49 | <robehend1> I'm not sure how to do that then. I'm sure it can be done, but out of my range.
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| 08:52 | Problem I see with what your asking is the way the clusters work, they still have a core, 'root' server which responds to the pxe requests and such. That's the one you'd worry about going down in a HA, and the only way I could think of keeping that going would be a second machine, virtual or otherwise, that is kept at a constant state of readiness via rsync or something like, that you can switch to at a moments notice.
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| 08:52 | <arthurl> hey I seem to have a problem with /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/P00-ltsp-cluster
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| 08:52 | manually trying to connect to port 8001 of my ldm server doens't work
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| 08:52 | is this port open temporarily ?
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| 08:52 | <AndyGraybeal> web based cluster admin program, nice.
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| 09:13 | <mnemoc> hi, where can I see (log) why ldm-script init just exists? http://dpaste.com/272879/ (ubuntu 10.10)
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> mnemoc: do you have a WM on the server? Check that user's ~/.xsession-errors and also check if it's a problem with compiz
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| 09:15 | !gnome-wm
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| 09:15 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "gnome-wm" :: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients. To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
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| 09:16 | <mnemoc> !disable_compiz
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| 09:16 | <ltspbot> mnemoc: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 09:18 | <mnemoc> \o/
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| 09:18 | alkisg: thank you :)
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> Someone should really file a bug for that... :)
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| 09:19 | I've seen more than 100 people here having that problem, yet no bug reports yet
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| 09:19 | <mnemoc> alkisg: who should I blame?
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> (in compiz or in gnome-wm, not in ltsp)
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| 09:19 | <mnemoc> ok
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| 09:20 | !restore_compiz
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| 09:20 | <ltspbot> mnemoc: "restore_compiz" :: if you disabled compiz by running the command suggested by the !compiz factoid, and you want to revert the change, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --recursive-unset /desktop/gnome/session/required_components
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> Either gnome-wm for the wrong autodetection of compiz-enabled cards, or compiz itself for crashing
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| 09:21 | <mnemoc> can they blame ltsp back?
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> If it's our problem to fix, I hope they'll do so :)
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| 09:21 | <mnemoc> ok :)
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| 09:28 | <mnemoc> doubt... from where to `apport`? :p
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> Try filing it without apport first, and if they ask you to, I guess they'll also provide instructions...
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| 09:29 | <mnemoc> ok
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| 09:35 | <crazed> hm where do i find the defaults for lts.conf
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| 09:35 | i want to start customizing it
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> !lts.conf
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| 09:35 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> yay! that worked!
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| 09:35 | :)
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| 09:36 | hmm... that manpage needs some updating
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| 09:37 | but, a good start
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| 09:38 | <crazed> LDM_SERVERS is missing from there hm
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| 09:38 | is that still a valid parameter?
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| 09:38 | trying to allow the selection of various ltsp servers
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| 09:39 | <alkisg> There's no such parameter... I think LDM_SERVER can have multiple values though
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| 09:40 | <crazed> i don't see that here either hm
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| 09:40 | can always just se it and see what happens i suppose
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| 09:40 | <alkisg> I mean that there's no such parameter in the whole LTSP code
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| 09:46 | <crazed> oh nice
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| 09:46 | LDS_SERVER works
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| 09:46 | LDM *
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| 09:47 | shows both options
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| 09:47 | <komunista> Gadi: in manpage is duplicated item for FRONT_VOLUME
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> komunista: actually, all those _VOLUME params should be replaced with an explanation
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| 09:50 | komunista: since you can use: <channel_name>_VOLUME
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| 09:51 | <komunista> Gadi: OK, I only report duplicates which I found, to have this nice work better ;-)
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| 09:51 | <Gadi> :)
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| 09:51 | yeah, thanks
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> Maybe we should start commenting all the lts.conf parameters in the code with some special syntax, and have a script that extracts the descriptions and puts them to the man page...
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| 09:59 | <hahlo> what about virtualbox in ltsp, is there any ltsp related issues?
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> No
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| 10:07 | <mnemoc> alkisg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/673072 <--- anything else you would attach?
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| 10:09 | <alkisg> mnemoc: looks fine to me - for other bug reports I think devs prefer the messages to be in English, i.e. set LANG before reproducing the bug
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| 10:10 | mnemoc: I don't have a client where I can reproduce that bug, but I wonder, does it also happen without LTSP?
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| 10:10 | Does your client have enough RAM to boot it from a live ubuntu usb stick?
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| 10:10 | <mnemoc> i didn't see anything "interesting" in spanish... set lang in LDM and attach a new xsession-errors?
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> Nah, I don't know any spanish and I didn't have any problems reading through that
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| 10:13 | <mnemoc> the client is 13000km from here... it has ~230MB of ram... should I try to get them booting 10.10 from a stick?
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| 10:14 | <alkisg> Hmmm not sure... it might boot if you give it 5-10 minutes, but I don't know how easy it would be for you to get feedback because of the distance. It might be worth a try, to at least see if it boots ok...
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| 10:23 | <alkisg> !learn gnome-wm-bug as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/673072
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| 10:23 | <ltspbot> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 10:24 | * mnemoc feels important now | |
| 10:25 | <alkisg> :)
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| 10:31 | * Gadi just posted to the bug | |
| 10:31 | <Gadi> hopefully they refer the bug upstream
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| 10:53 | <mnemoc> which virtualization machine in ubuntu is friendlier for ltsp testing?
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| 10:58 | <Appiah> err
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| 10:58 | I've used ltsp on xenserver , virtualbox and vmware esx
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| 10:58 | none is more friendly then the other
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| 11:00 | <mnemoc> pxe booting worked on the three?
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| 11:03 | <alkisg> PXE booting doesn't work very well in virtualbox-ose (needs some workarounds), but works fine in oracle virtualbox.
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| 11:05 | (no idea about other VM tools)
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| 11:08 | <Gadi> works fine in xenserver
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| 11:08 | and vmware
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| 11:08 | afaik
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| 11:08 | <mnemoc> good i asked, i was going to use kvm
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| 11:14 | <AndyGraybeal> i'm reading theregister, and i ran across a moscow teacher got forced to resign because he complaied that some program needed microsoft office to run.
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| 11:14 | and also from the article i learned that russian schools are being forced to use linux by 2011 (order on 2007)
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| 11:14 | http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/teacher-fired-over-software-plea/421283.html
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| 11:26 | <cliebow> AndyGraybeal, !!!
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| 11:26 | <AndyGraybeal> i gurss it's old news, butnew to me
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| 11:26 | hi cliebow :)
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| 11:26 | <cliebow> i never read the news..too depressing 8~)
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| 11:26 | AndyGraybeal, Hi!
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| 11:27 | <AndyGraybeal> i like to read elreg. and slashdot.
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| 11:27 | <cliebow> sure
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| 11:28 | <AndyGraybeal> recently i like the larry ellison coverage on elreg :)
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| 11:29 | <cliebow> show how far behind i am..i dont know from elreg
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| 11:29 | <AndyGraybeal> theregister, you know about it :)
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: I think the initiative was a case where a teacher was tried because the computer store sold him computers with pirated windows... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponosov's_case
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| 12:23 | <AndyGraybeal> alkisg: that's a different case.
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| 12:23 | this one just happened.
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> AndyGraybeal: I mean that afaik Ponosov's case was the reason why in 2007 it was decided that all russian schools would switch to floss
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| 15:37 | <Gieltjev> Hi
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| 16:09 | <vagrantc> is the ability to set a default preference in firefox, while allowing the user to easily change the default, really as hard as it seems?
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| 16:10 | it seems my only option is /etc/firefox/profile/prefs.js
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| 16:11 | but that may prompt the user on upgrades if prefs.js ever changed...
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> alternately, there's user.js, but that requires the user to manually delete a file in ~/.mozilla/firefox ... and /etc/firefox/prefs/all-foo.js overrides user settings ...
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| 16:13 | <Gieltjev> can't you use Profiles?
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> Gieltjev: how?
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| 16:14 | <Gieltjev> firefox -P ProfileName
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> globally?
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| 16:14 | and from all menus?
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| 16:14 | <Gieltjev> you can assing each user an own profile
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> when someone creates a new user?
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| 16:15 | <Gieltjev> if you edit the menu item to "firefox -P `whoami`" each indivudal user should get its own profile right?
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> i need something that sets a global default that still allows the user to change the default
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| 16:16 | i don't think profiles is the right approach here...
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| 16:16 | want to do as little tweaking as possible
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| 16:17 | <Gieltjev> somthing like this: http://szone.berlinwall.org/node/112
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| 16:17 | ?
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> that will get obliterated on upgrades...
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| 16:19 | <Gieltjev> indeed...
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| 16:20 | why do you thing it gets updated?
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| 16:20 | think*
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| 16:25 | using LTSP, can you access your local IO?
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> Gieltjev: why do i think what gets updated?
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| 16:26 | <Gieltjev> the all.js file, it is a settings file.. so why should firefox updater update this file?
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> those documents talk about editing system files outside of /etc, and so a security update to the browser would overwrite any changes made to those files.
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| 16:28 | <Gieltjev> too bad, it was just a guess
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| 16:29 | <vagrantc> what you can do in /etc/firefox/prefs/all-YOUR-CUSTOM-FILE.js is perfect, except it silenty doesn't allow the user to change those settings.
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| 16:30 | unless there's a way to specify a setting that's more along the lines of "set if not already set"
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> it's really useful to be able to easily set a global override, it's just not the use case i need right now :(
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| 16:31 | also, it seems like every few releases of firefox completely change how to do this stuff... which makes it really hard to find working documentation
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| 16:31 | <Gieltjev> yeah, not even a profile can override these settings?
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> don't think so
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| 16:33 | the worst is the user interface allows them to change the settings, it just won't respect the changes once they close and restart the browser.
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| 16:34 | <Gieltjev> are the original values loaded back, or are their settings still in the dialogs and not used in the browser?
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| 19:27 | <hondak_> clean install of Ubuntu 10-10 LTServer. Box has single nic on internal network. I modified /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf with network params. using rom-o-matic floppy disk to boot old pc
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| 19:27 | never gets dhcp response
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| 19:27 | pointers on troubleshooting
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