IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)


Channel log from 9 November 2010   (all times are UTC)

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02:55
<alkisg>
!xauthority
02:55
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "xauthority" :: to access the client X session from a local root shell, try: eval $(tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$(pidof -s ldm gdm-simple-greeter gnome-session | cut -d' ' -f1)/environ | egrep '^DISPLAY=|^XAUTHORITY=') && export DISPLAY XAUTHORITY
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04:39
<Trixboxer>
Hi, LTSP was running good so far, but today few machines started hanging... when I checked the top -c on fat-clients the load is due to nbd-client and sshd
04:40
will nfs solve this issue ?
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04:43
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: hanging <> load
04:43
Was that a complete hang?
04:43
<Trixboxer>
sometimes
04:43
sometimes display gets scrambled
04:44
and sometimes nothings works
04:44
<alkisg>
That doesn't sound like a load problem
04:45
It sounds more like a networking problem or a driver problem
04:46
<Trixboxer>
I meant fat-client load
04:47
<alkisg>
Scrambled display, hanging etc wouldn't be caused just by heavy load
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05:09
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: scrambled display might be Display driver problem, but the fat-client is facing a load and getting slow
05:10
firefox, ssh, nbdclient are running constantly
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05:22
<muppis>
Anyone made script for upstart in 10.04 ?
05:25
<Trixboxer>
muppis: Whats that ?
05:27
<rickogden>
muppis: do you mean a script to run at startup?
05:27
<muppis>
rickogden, yes.
05:27
<rickogden>
startup of what: server, ltsp login, client?
05:28
<muppis>
Instability problem with cups and I'd like move it from /etc/init.d -script to /etc/init to gain respawn ability.
05:30
<rickogden>
on the server?
05:30
<muppis>
Yes.
05:31
<rickogden>
when do you want the script to be executed? On boot?
05:31
or on login from client?
05:33
<muppis>
On boot of server, like /etc/init.d/ -scripts.
05:34
<rickogden>
ok, the easiest thing is to look at how those scripts are written and then write a new one as appropriate
05:35
got to run, back later!
05:35
<muppis>
Well, its already done for Natty (11.04), but that script doesn't work for 10.04. So it is possible to do after all or do had upgrade upstart also?
05:39
<alkisg>
Trixboxer: if you close firefox are you still getting a load?
05:39
muppis: can you pastebin the 2 scripts? (lucid/natty)?
05:40
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: firefox load gets reduced but other processes remains same
05:40
chrome was an option to try but it is not running.. It will need nbd
05:41
<alkisg>
To try what?
05:41
<Trixboxer>
alkisg: to try it as a replacement of firefox
05:42
<alkisg>
Chrome won't work with sshfs without workarounds
05:42
It does run with nfs
05:42
nbd is for the root file system, it's irrelevant to the apps
05:42
So it's (NBD) AND (SSHFS OR NFS)
05:43
(for Ubuntu, at least, and without modifying any scripts)
05:43
<Trixboxer>
hmm then why my ssh processes is jumping up.. will find out
05:43
np
05:44
<mnemoc>
how much memory a client needs for plain and boring 2d work?
05:44
<alkisg>
mnemoc: the bare minimum is 64M
05:45
With 128MB it's much easier
05:45
<mnemoc>
cool, thanks :)
05:45
I was wondering if 128M was really enough :)
05:46
<alkisg>
mnemoc: you'll only get crashes with 128MB if much X memory is used for pixmaps caching, e.g. in a few rare web sites while using firefox (chrome doesn't have that problem)
05:46
E.g. if you try to visit a page where the admin has a 4000x4000px background, firefox will crash
05:47
<mnemoc>
fair enough
05:48
does an small DOM for swapping make sense, or it's just a waste?
05:49
<alkisg>
There's a command line option in firefox that disables pixmap caching, but it makes it a little slower so I'm not even using that with 64/128mb clients
05:49
You could also enable nbd swapping if you want, it helps sometimes
05:50
<mnemoc>
this world sounds fun :)
05:52
<elias_a>
alkisg: Did you have the time to try the Google Maps thing?
05:52
<alkisg>
elias_a: a teacher here started it yesterday, http://goo.gl/maps/nOoQ
05:52
Thanks for the idea!
05:52
<elias_a>
It seems to be a good idea as I showed mine 2 hours ago and it got tweeted right away ;-)
05:53
<alkisg>
elias_a: btw, there's an option to get a small url like the above for your map
05:53
<elias_a>
alkisg: Cool - how do you do that?
05:54
I just used bit.ly type services...
05:54
<alkisg>
I got a "new" menu on top of google apps, and there was a google app for short URLs there
05:54
*on top of google maps
05:54
So I just activated it and it gave me the URL...
05:57
<elias_a>
Thanks!
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06:16
<elias_a>
alkisg: Did the teacher think that the idea was fun?
06:16
<alkisg>
elias_a: sure, he was first thinking to make a spreadsheet with the schools, but as soon as he heard the google maps idea, he immediately started it...
06:17
Now let's hope schools will actually put themselves in the map :)
06:17
<elias_a>
I try to promote this idea through a couple of channels: FSFE Edu-team and KDE Edu team.
06:17
<alkisg>
elias_a: what's your short url?
06:18
Try also the edubuntu mailing list
06:20
<elias_a>
Let's make this thing again in english after getting it running nationally....
06:21
alkisg: Should the short URL come to the same place as the old long one?
06:21
<alkisg>
I think it automatically detects the pins and magnifies accordingly, but I'm not sure, I haven't tested much
06:22
Are you putting only LTSP installations in there? Or other non-LTSP Linux installations too?
06:22
<elias_a>
alkisg: No I mean that where should the short format URL be presented?
06:22
Actually there are some schools who are running FLOSS sw on Windows, too...
06:22
Or at least was...
06:23
<alkisg>
We're only putting there labs that use LTSP + our sch-scripts
06:24
About the short URL, I'm using it when I want to give people a link to the map. But I don't see it in the google maps UI after the initial time I activated the short URL app...
06:26
http://www.technixupdate.com/share-google-map-short-url-link-for-located-address/
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06:47
<mnemoc>
can the clients use an ssh key for "pre authentication"?
06:47
(ubuntu)
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07:00
<elias_a>
alkisg: http://goo.gl/maps/YiFQ
07:01
I had to restart Firefox in order to get the short URL to work.
07:06
<mnemoc>
any hint about how to accept login/password when from certain computers, and key-only from the rest? :( (ltsp ubuntu 10.10)
07:07
or to let the clients use a key to a single account and su - to the real to test the password?
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07:16
<alkisg>
mnemoc: key-only? you mean ssh?
07:16
<mnemoc>
yes
07:17
<alkisg>
mnemoc: ldm doesn't use ssh keys
07:17
It can use autologin information, if you like...
07:18
<mnemoc>
i need LDM to do password auth, but I can't allow everyone to ssh from "outside"...
07:19
<robehend1>
mnemoc: Should'nt your firewall be taking care of that?
07:19
<alkisg>
mnemoc: then just modify sshd_config accordingly
07:20
<mnemoc>
alkisg: i didn't know sshd_config accepted conditionals..
07:20
<alkisg>
It has a pretty wide range of configuration options. E.g. listen to that card, allow key-only authentication from outside, etc etc
07:21
<mnemoc>
nice, thanks, i'll read it's documentation deeperly
07:24
<muppis>
alkisg, those scripts are out-of-box scripts from cups -package. Problem is why upstart in Lucid doesn't see that what is used in Natty. Am I missing some configuration or what?
07:24
<mnemoc>
Match Introduces a conditional block. \o/
07:28
yes yes yes /me does the dance of success
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07:44
<arthurl>
hi, it is expected that the root's .ssh/authorized_keys be deleted on thin clients ? (using ltsp-cluster)
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08:35
<AndyGraybeal>
wow there is a ltspcluster.org :)
08:35
er -cluster
08:35
<arthurl>
AndyGraybeal, are you talking about me ?
08:36
<AndyGraybeal>
well, you spurred my curiosity to look it up, but i don't know your answer.
08:36
<arthurl>
ah ok
08:37
<AndyGraybeal>
i'm still getting a handle on things without the cluster :)(
08:37
i would like to run a high-availablilty cluster though, just in case one of the machines has a problem, i have a backup machine ready to go.
08:38
i dont' know how to connect the dots though.
08:38
<robehend1>
clusters are lovely that way. Follow the cluster wiki up on UbuntuLTSP wiki, it walks you right through
08:38
load balancing, the whole she-bang
08:39
<AndyGraybeal>
i thought that the UbuntuLTSP wiki was unfinished.
08:39
<robehend1>
Not that I've noticed, but I could be mistaken
08:39
<AndyGraybeal>
maybe it's been updated since i last read it :)
08:44
is there a configuration for high-availability or just load balancing?
08:45
<robehend1>
What i've found is mostly load balancing. However, couldnt you help with high-availability with more cluster points?
08:45
I see what your asking for, and am sure theres someway in the DHCP setup to make it work, but it goes beyond my understanding at this time.
08:45
<AndyGraybeal>
i was hoping to run just two machines, and if one fails, the other takes over or something like that.
08:45
<robehend1>
that sort of defeats the purpose of a cluster, does it not?
08:46
<AndyGraybeal>
i don't have a large setup, but i don't want to go through the pain of dealing with an outage.
08:46
<robehend1>
since the benefit is allowing to share the load out to many, not as powerful machines, instead of going with a beast/
08:46
<AndyGraybeal>
i don't tihnk it defeats the purpose at all, it's just a different type of cluster.
08:46
i have 5 clients, max.
08:47
maybe 10 in two years. i don't need much of a beast.
08:47
<robehend1>
i'd recommend looking into setting it up on a virtual disk then. Quick and easy switch over if you do have a failure. For that low amount of clients, it appears overkill to do much more
08:48
<AndyGraybeal>
and a virtual disk would be...?
08:48
LVM ?
08:48
zfs ?
08:48
<robehend1>
Set up your entire LTSP as a virtual machine
08:48
using KVM or VMware or some such.
08:48
<AndyGraybeal>
ah virtual machine
08:48
what if the machine dies that's running the virtual machine?
08:48
<robehend1>
Backups.
08:48
<AndyGraybeal>
but that means downtime.
08:49
<robehend1>
If you have virtual disk backed up, we're talking 20 min downtime, max.
08:49
if you have the new hardware ready to go, of course.
08:49
<AndyGraybeal>
yea, exactly, so i would lik to make it 'hot' if i could.
08:49
with a HA cluster.
08:49
<robehend1>
I'm not sure how to do that then. I'm sure it can be done, but out of my range.
08:52
Problem I see with what your asking is the way the clusters work, they still have a core, 'root' server which responds to the pxe requests and such. That's the one you'd worry about going down in a HA, and the only way I could think of keeping that going would be a second machine, virtual or otherwise, that is kept at a constant state of readiness via rsync or something like, that you can switch to at a moments notice.
08:52
<arthurl>
hey I seem to have a problem with /usr/share/ldm/rc.d/P00-ltsp-cluster
08:52
manually trying to connect to port 8001 of my ldm server doens't work
08:52
is this port open temporarily ?
08:52
<AndyGraybeal>
web based cluster admin program, nice.
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09:13
<mnemoc>
hi, where can I see (log) why ldm-script init just exists? http://dpaste.com/272879/ (ubuntu 10.10)
09:15
<alkisg>
mnemoc: do you have a WM on the server? Check that user's ~/.xsession-errors and also check if it's a problem with compiz
09:15
!gnome-wm
09:15
<ltspbot>
alkisg: "gnome-wm" :: the default window manager in gnome is gnome-wm, which automatically chooses compiz if it thinks that the card supports it. Compiz is causing login problems to some clients. To disable it, see !disable_compiz. To restore it, see !restore_compiz
09:16
<mnemoc>
!disable_compiz
09:16
<ltspbot>
mnemoc: "disable_compiz" :: To disable compiz, try: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
09:18
<mnemoc>
\o/
09:18
alkisg: thank you :)
09:19
<alkisg>
Someone should really file a bug for that... :)
09:19
I've seen more than 100 people here having that problem, yet no bug reports yet
09:19
<mnemoc>
alkisg: who should I blame?
09:19
<alkisg>
(in compiz or in gnome-wm, not in ltsp)
09:19
<mnemoc>
ok
09:20
!restore_compiz
09:20
<ltspbot>
mnemoc: "restore_compiz" :: if you disabled compiz by running the command suggested by the !compiz factoid, and you want to revert the change, run: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --recursive-unset /desktop/gnome/session/required_components
09:20
<alkisg>
Either gnome-wm for the wrong autodetection of compiz-enabled cards, or compiz itself for crashing
09:21
<mnemoc>
can they blame ltsp back?
09:21
<alkisg>
If it's our problem to fix, I hope they'll do so :)
09:21
<mnemoc>
ok :)
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09:28
<mnemoc>
doubt... from where to `apport`? :p
09:29
<alkisg>
Try filing it without apport first, and if they ask you to, I guess they'll also provide instructions...
09:29
<mnemoc>
ok
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09:35
<crazed>
hm where do i find the defaults for lts.conf
09:35
i want to start customizing it
09:35
<Gadi>
!lts.conf
09:35
<ltspbot>
Gadi: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
09:35
<Gadi>
yay! that worked!
09:35
:)
09:36
hmm... that manpage needs some updating
09:37
but, a good start
09:38
<crazed>
LDM_SERVERS is missing from there hm
09:38
is that still a valid parameter?
09:38
trying to allow the selection of various ltsp servers
09:39
<alkisg>
There's no such parameter... I think LDM_SERVER can have multiple values though
09:40
<crazed>
i don't see that here either hm
09:40
can always just se it and see what happens i suppose
09:40
<alkisg>
I mean that there's no such parameter in the whole LTSP code
09:46
<crazed>
oh nice
09:46
LDS_SERVER works
09:46
LDM *
09:47
shows both options
09:47
<komunista>
Gadi: in manpage is duplicated item for FRONT_VOLUME
09:50
<Gadi>
komunista: actually, all those _VOLUME params should be replaced with an explanation
09:50
komunista: since you can use: <channel_name>_VOLUME
09:51
<komunista>
Gadi: OK, I only report duplicates which I found, to have this nice work better ;-)
09:51
<Gadi>
:)
09:51
yeah, thanks
09:52
<alkisg>
Maybe we should start commenting all the lts.conf parameters in the code with some special syntax, and have a script that extracts the descriptions and puts them to the man page...
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09:59
<hahlo>
what about virtualbox in ltsp, is there any ltsp related issues?
10:01
<alkisg>
No
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10:07
<mnemoc>
alkisg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/673072 <--- anything else you would attach?
10:09
<alkisg>
mnemoc: looks fine to me - for other bug reports I think devs prefer the messages to be in English, i.e. set LANG before reproducing the bug
10:10
mnemoc: I don't have a client where I can reproduce that bug, but I wonder, does it also happen without LTSP?
10:10
Does your client have enough RAM to boot it from a live ubuntu usb stick?
10:10
<mnemoc>
i didn't see anything "interesting" in spanish... set lang in LDM and attach a new xsession-errors?
10:10
<alkisg>
Nah, I don't know any spanish and I didn't have any problems reading through that
10:13
<mnemoc>
the client is 13000km from here... it has ~230MB of ram... should I try to get them booting 10.10 from a stick?
10:14
<alkisg>
Hmmm not sure... it might boot if you give it 5-10 minutes, but I don't know how easy it would be for you to get feedback because of the distance. It might be worth a try, to at least see if it boots ok...
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10:23
<alkisg>
!learn gnome-wm-bug as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/673072
10:23
<ltspbot>
alkisg: The operation succeeded.
10:24* mnemoc feels important now
10:25
<alkisg>
:)
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10:31* Gadi just posted to the bug
10:31
<Gadi>
hopefully they refer the bug upstream
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10:53
<mnemoc>
which virtualization machine in ubuntu is friendlier for ltsp testing?
10:58
<Appiah>
err
10:58
I've used ltsp on xenserver , virtualbox and vmware esx
10:58
none is more friendly then the other
11:00
<mnemoc>
pxe booting worked on the three?
11:03
<alkisg>
PXE booting doesn't work very well in virtualbox-ose (needs some workarounds), but works fine in oracle virtualbox.
11:05
(no idea about other VM tools)
11:08
<Gadi>
works fine in xenserver
11:08
and vmware
11:08
afaik
11:08
<mnemoc>
good i asked, i was going to use kvm
11:14
<AndyGraybeal>
i'm reading theregister, and i ran across a moscow teacher got forced to resign because he complaied that some program needed microsoft office to run.
11:14
and also from the article i learned that russian schools are being forced to use linux by 2011 (order on 2007)
11:14
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/teacher-fired-over-software-plea/421283.html
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11:26
<cliebow>
AndyGraybeal, !!!
11:26
<AndyGraybeal>
i gurss it's old news, butnew to me
11:26
hi cliebow :)
11:26
<cliebow>
i never read the news..too depressing 8~)
11:26
AndyGraybeal, Hi!
11:27
<AndyGraybeal>
i like to read elreg. and slashdot.
11:27
<cliebow>
sure
11:28
<AndyGraybeal>
recently i like the larry ellison coverage on elreg :)
11:29
<cliebow>
show how far behind i am..i dont know from elreg
11:29
<AndyGraybeal>
theregister, you know about it :)
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12:09
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal: I think the initiative was a case where a teacher was tried because the computer store sold him computers with pirated windows... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponosov's_case
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12:23
<AndyGraybeal>
alkisg: that's a different case.
12:23
this one just happened.
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14:00
<alkisg>
AndyGraybeal: I mean that afaik Ponosov's case was the reason why in 2007 it was decided that all russian schools would switch to floss
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15:37
<Gieltjev>
Hi
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16:09
<vagrantc>
is the ability to set a default preference in firefox, while allowing the user to easily change the default, really as hard as it seems?
16:10
it seems my only option is /etc/firefox/profile/prefs.js
16:11
but that may prompt the user on upgrades if prefs.js ever changed...
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16:13
<vagrantc>
alternately, there's user.js, but that requires the user to manually delete a file in ~/.mozilla/firefox ... and /etc/firefox/prefs/all-foo.js overrides user settings ...
16:13
<Gieltjev>
can't you use Profiles?
16:13
<vagrantc>
Gieltjev: how?
16:14
<Gieltjev>
firefox -P ProfileName
16:14
<vagrantc>
globally?
16:14
and from all menus?
16:14
<Gieltjev>
you can assing each user an own profile
16:15
<vagrantc>
when someone creates a new user?
16:15
<Gieltjev>
if you edit the menu item to "firefox -P `whoami`" each indivudal user should get its own profile right?
16:15
<vagrantc>
i need something that sets a global default that still allows the user to change the default
16:16
i don't think profiles is the right approach here...
16:16
want to do as little tweaking as possible
16:17
<Gieltjev>
somthing like this: http://szone.berlinwall.org/node/112
16:17
?
16:18
<vagrantc>
that will get obliterated on upgrades...
16:19
<Gieltjev>
indeed...
16:20
why do you thing it gets updated?
16:20
think*
16:25
using LTSP, can you access your local IO?
16:26
<vagrantc>
Gieltjev: why do i think what gets updated?
16:26
<Gieltjev>
the all.js file, it is a settings file.. so why should firefox updater update this file?
16:26
<vagrantc>
those documents talk about editing system files outside of /etc, and so a security update to the browser would overwrite any changes made to those files.
16:28
<Gieltjev>
too bad, it was just a guess
16:29
<vagrantc>
what you can do in /etc/firefox/prefs/all-YOUR-CUSTOM-FILE.js is perfect, except it silenty doesn't allow the user to change those settings.
16:30
unless there's a way to specify a setting that's more along the lines of "set if not already set"
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16:30
<vagrantc>
it's really useful to be able to easily set a global override, it's just not the use case i need right now :(
16:31
also, it seems like every few releases of firefox completely change how to do this stuff... which makes it really hard to find working documentation
16:31
<Gieltjev>
yeah, not even a profile can override these settings?
16:32
<vagrantc>
don't think so
16:33
the worst is the user interface allows them to change the settings, it just won't respect the changes once they close and restart the browser.
16:34
<Gieltjev>
are the original values loaded back, or are their settings still in the dialogs and not used in the browser?
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19:27
<hondak_>
clean install of Ubuntu 10-10 LTServer. Box has single nic on internal network. I modified /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf with network params. using rom-o-matic floppy disk to boot old pc
19:27
never gets dhcp response
19:27
pointers on troubleshooting
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