IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 January 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 07:03 | <laga> hey. does anyone know where /usr/lib/ltsp/configure-x.sh has gone in ubuntu and if there's a replacement? i suppose it got phased out in favor of configless X.
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| 07:03 | i used to call configure-x.sh from my mythbuntu-diskless init scripts, that's why i'm wondering
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| 07:07 | <warren> laga: see ltsp-trunk, it was replaced
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| 07:07 | not a single script now
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| 07:08 | <laga> thanks, i'll take a look
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| 07:16 | <ogra> laga, we default to configless X now ...
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| 07:17 | to use the replacement scripts you need to force CONFIGURE_X=true
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| 07:17 | <laga> hum
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| 07:17 | so i guess i can just remove the configure-x.sh call.
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| 07:18 | <ogra> yes
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| 07:18 | <laga> i'll look into the new scripts anyways.. but it's not that bad because our xorg.conf is persistent
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| 07:19 | <ogra> even on new installs ?
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| 07:20 | <laga> ogra: oh. well, it's not if it's configless :) but if someone adds their own xorg.conf, it'll stay
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| 07:20 | <ogra> right
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| 07:20 | <ogra> but there is no mechanism in ubuntu that creates any meaningfull device or monitor entries anymore
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| 07:21 | <laga> ogra: vim. :)
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| 07:22 | and between hacking a config to include CONFIGURE_X=true and firing up nvidia-settings or vim, there shouldn't be a big difference for my users
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| 07:22 | i'll remove the call to configure-x.sh. wee :)
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| 07:22 | <ogra> go ahead :)
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| 07:22 | happy new year btw
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| 07:22 | <laga> thanks, frohes neues auch dir :)
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| 07:23 | <ogra> danke :)
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| 07:29 | <laga> ogra: i assume intrepid also had the same configless X setup?
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| 07:40 | <njeudy> hi ..
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| 07:41 | I'm french user and i try to install ltps-cluster on my server ..
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| 07:41 | but i have a problem . an someone help me ?
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| 07:41 | I have a conflict with ldm and ltsp-cluster-client
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| 07:43 | i use ubuntu intrepid for testing this.
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| 07:50 | <rjune_> ogra: Happy New Year!
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| 08:41 | <petre> ogra, ping
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| 14:19 | <D_Eagle> i am trying to setup a ltsp server in ubuntu(8.04) (hardy), every thing went fine, but whenever i try to boot client computers, there occurs kernel panic in client computer
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| 14:20 | and when i tried thru my laptop, it ends into busybox
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| 14:20 | any idea?
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| 14:21 | I am the co-ordinator of setting up an e-library in rural area of Nepal... and i am stuck because of this problem here
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| 14:22 | <laga> it'd help if you could capture the log messages
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| 14:22 | and the kernel panic
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| 14:23 | <D_Eagle> log messages from syslog?
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| 14:23 | <laga> from the client
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| 14:23 | <D_Eagle> ok, a moment
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| 14:24 | /init: .: 1: can't open /tmp/net-eth0.conf
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| 14:24 | kernel panic - not synching: attempted to kill init!
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| 14:28 | <laga> ah
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| 14:28 | it probably doesn't recognize the ethernet card then
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| 14:29 | <D_Eagle> laga: also i tried in another computer (my laptop), and my laptop ends in busybox
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| 14:30 | <laga> well, probably a different problem then on your laptop :)
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| 14:30 | i've gotta go, i hope someone else will be able to help you
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| 14:31 | <D_Eagle> ya possibly
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| 14:31 | okay anyway thanx
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| 14:31 | :)
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> D_Eagle: is it possible that you have another dhcp server running apart from the ltsp one?
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| 14:34 | e.g. a modem / router
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| 14:35 | <D_Eagle> alkisg: no there isn't
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> any error messages before entering busybox?
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| 14:36 | <D_Eagle> in server syslog.. only thing it showed was "link down"
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> I don't know, but I think you should try with a newer kernel. E.g. with Ubuntu 8.10...
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| 14:38 | <D_Eagle> well there are few error msg before entering into busybox
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Like?
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| 14:39 | <D_Eagle> filename: /ltsp/i386/nbi.img
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| 14:39 | Error: connect: connection refused
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| 14:39 | mount: Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed: Invalid arguement
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> sounds like nbdrootd might not be set up in /etc/inetd.conf
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> D_Eagle: did you run ltsp-build-client?
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| 14:42 | <D_Eagle> there is a line with "/urs/sbin/nbdrootd" in /etc/inetd.conf
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| 14:42 | yes
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| 14:42 | <vagrantc> D_Eagle: pgrep -l -f inetd
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| 14:42 | * vagrantc washes some clothes for the new year | |
| 14:43 | <D_Eagle> 5056 /usr/sbin/xinetd -pidfile /var/run/xinetd.pid -stayalive -inetd_compat
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| 14:44 | vagrantc: this was the output i got
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| 14:45 | i solved the kernel panic problem by adding its ethernet model in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/modules, now it also ends in busy box
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| 14:46 | <johnny> you shouldn't be running xinetd
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| 14:46 | <D_Eagle> oh
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| 14:49 | i am rebuilding litsp client, hope it helps :)
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| 14:49 | johnny: thanks :) and happy new year 2009 !
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> D_Eagle: you just need to configure xinetd to do the same thing that /etc/inetd.conf does for nbdrootd ...
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| 14:57 | i think fedora uses xinetd by default ... could probably get an exampel from them
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| 14:58 | though i'm surprised xinetd and openbsd-inetd are allowed to co-exist
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| 14:59 | ah, it provides inet-superserver, which is an alternate dependency: openbsd-inetd | inet-superserver
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| 14:59 | we should probably just go ahead and ship xinetd configuration snippets...
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| 14:59 | well, at least i will do so for Debian :)
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| 15:00 | <D_Eagle> well, i just removed xinetd.. ;) i am not sure which one to use
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> on Debian and probably ubuntu, openbsd-inetd is the preferred default daemon, though any that use /etc/inetd.conf should work
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| 15:01 | xinetd does something entirely different
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| 15:02 | <johnny> i rely on the xinetd snippets
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> actually, xinetd behaves much more like debian services tend to be, with configuration snippets everywhere
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| 15:07 | <D_Eagle> ok now i got squashfs error, means i need to ltsp-update-image?
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| 15:09 | i am still getting squashfs errors :S
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| 15:11 | ok BrB
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| 15:17 | <jammcq> happy new year #ltsp
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| 15:18 | <vagrantc> jammcq: huzzah!
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| 15:19 | <Ryan52> happy new year, jammcq
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| 16:15 | <TheProf> Hello and Happy New Year! I hope everyone is well. I've set up a new LTSP server based on CentOS 5.2 and one thing I am stuck on is how to upgrade the stock OpenOffice from version 2.3 to version 3. I attempted following the guidelines online: download the zip from OO.org, unzip, go into the RPMS folder, and run rpm -Uvh *.rpm
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| 16:15 | However, I receive a bunch of errors as follows:
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| 16:15 | <johnny> this isn't the right channel for that
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| 16:15 | join #centos
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| 16:15 | <TheProf> java >= 1.4.2 is needed by (installed) openoffice.org-core-2.3.0-6.5.4.el5_2.i386
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| 16:16 | <johnny> yes.. you would have to ask them
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| 16:16 | <jammcq> it's not like this channel is too busy to help answer his questions
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| 16:16 | <TheProf> johnny: I wasn't sure if the issue was because it was an ltsp server
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| 16:16 | <johnny> no.. it isn't :)
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| 16:16 | <jammcq> and there's plenty of folks in this channel who know about stuff like that
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| 16:16 | <johnny> it's specific to t their packaging
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| 16:16 | <TheProf> so it's multiple people running the same instance.
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| 16:16 | <jammcq> and this channel has always tried to be helpful when possible about a whole range of things outside of the strict 'ltsp' topic
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| 16:16 | <TheProf> This is very true :)
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| 16:16 | <johnny> jammcq, you got an answer jammcq ?
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| 16:17 | <jammcq> umm, nope
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| 16:17 | but, it doesn't annoy me that questions like that are asked
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| 16:17 | <johnny> the centos people are more likely to be able to answer their packaging issues
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| 16:18 | <TheProf> I guess my reasoning for asking here are two-fold:
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| 16:18 | 1) I am still new enough to not be able to tell if a problem is LTSP-related or not.
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| 16:18 | <jammcq> I'd say prolly 90% of the time I go looking for answers in a channel devoted to a specific topic, I get ignored.
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| 16:18 | <johnny> if it has to do with any packaging
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| 16:18 | <TheProf> 2) I've found from past experience that the folks here are often more capable than in other channels by virtue of the fact that LTSP is something a little tricky
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| 16:18 | <johnny> then it is not ltsp related
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| 16:19 | <TheProf> But certainly I don't want to cause any issues so I'll jump over into CentOS and see what comes out of that.
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| 16:19 | <johnny> you're not causing issues
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> I installed OOo 3.0 in Intrepid. Worked fine for a week until some updates were downloaded from the internet which broke it... I had to uninstall it. And I didn't really see what the fuss is all about with OOo 3...
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| 16:19 | <johnny> just that they are more likely to tell you how to find the java rpms and whatnot that you need
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| 16:20 | alkisg, the presenter mode is awesome
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| 16:20 | and did 2.3 support docx?
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> yes, it did
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| 16:20 | <TheProf> alkisg: for me the issue relates to the acceptance of the entire LTSP system.
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| 16:21 | <johnny> they need OOo3?
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| 16:21 | <TheProf> I'm converting a bunch of XP machines over to LTSP, so I need to make it as 'seamless' as possible.
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| 16:21 | <johnny> why was 2.3 not good enough?
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| 16:21 | <TheProf> My thinking was that it would interact with docx more
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> Well, for me it didn't have anything to do with LTSP, it just broke (found some bugs in launchpad about problems with the packages)
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| 16:21 | <johnny> alkisg, so it could be ubuntu specific?
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> Sure, it's just packaging
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| 16:22 | But if centos also doesn't have official packages.... :)
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| 16:22 | <TheProf> I sorta assumed that it would be more stable, run faster, etc. etc. Since it was a significant enough change for them to renumber it to version 3
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> I heard that the number change was decided by the marketing team
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| 16:22 | <TheProf> if that's the case it worked well :)
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| 16:22 | <alkisg> Yeah! :D
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| 16:23 | <TheProf> the end user isn't savvy enough to tell that their inability to do X or Y isn't due to the specific version of OO, but by the Linux OS itself.
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| 16:23 | <stgraber> TheProf: hmm, and what about KDE4 (4.0) ? was it more stable, faster, ... ? :)
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| 16:23 | <johnny> TheProf, things won't be seamless if you maintain OOo
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| 16:23 | <TheProf> So to mitigate against that I thought to upgrade to the latest and greatest.
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| 16:23 | <johnny> outside of the packaged rpms
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| 16:23 | you're more likely to cause issues for your users
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| 16:23 | <TheProf> stgraber: I'm still waiting for E 17 to be developed :)
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| 16:24 | <johnny> lol e17
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| 16:24 | <stgraber> version number are usually either marketing thing or due to a massive rewrite, in the first case it usually makes no difference and in the second it's usually worse (at least at the beginning) :)
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| 16:24 | <TheProf> johnny: that's a fair point.
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| 16:24 | <jammcq> when was e16, like 8 years ago?
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| 16:24 | <johnny> TheProf, i'd suggest having a couple users beta test it
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| 16:24 | <TheProf> yup
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| 16:24 | <johnny> instead of pre upgrading
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| 16:24 | until you're sure you need it
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| 16:24 | <TheProf> If people have seen both versions, I guess the most crucial thing is support for the new Office 2007 filetypes.
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| 16:25 | <johnny> until you can find official packages
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| 16:25 | <TheProf> Is that supported anywhere?
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| 16:25 | <johnny> you won't know until you open up typical documents
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| 16:25 | the outcome is different depending on the features used in the documents
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> OOo 2.4 supports docx
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| 16:25 | <johnny> i'd suggest trying 10-20
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| 16:25 | <TheProf> johnny: are you referring to specific 2007 formatting or the entire filestructure?
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| 16:25 | alkisg: OK that's what I meant.
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| 16:26 | <johnny> specific any formatting
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| 16:26 | for any office document
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| 16:26 | from 2000 on
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| 16:27 | you won't know if open office will fit your needs even for those documents until you try
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| 16:27 | <TheProf> johnny: I understand.
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| 16:27 | <jammcq> I see an interesting thing emerging in this conversation. a channel devoted to OOo would generally encourage people to upgrade to the latest version. But, here in #ltsp land, we've got the kind of in-the-trenches experience to guide people on the best way to go
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| 16:27 | <TheProf> johnny: I wasn't clear if it would even open a .docx file
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| 16:27 | <jammcq> the OOo channel would never tell you to NOT use version 3.0
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| 16:27 | <johnny> alkisg just said 2.4 will
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| 16:27 | jammcq, sure they would.. if it is related to native packaging
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| 16:27 | <TheProf> Yes that's where I got the answer
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| 16:27 | <johnny> native packaging is always preferred
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| 16:28 | otherwise people can screw up the install too easy
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| 16:28 | and cause even more issues
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| 16:28 | <jammcq> but is native packaging of 3.0 better than native packaging of 2.4 ?
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| 16:28 | and take stgraber's comment about kde 4.0
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| 16:28 | apply all the native packaging you want to 4.0 and it's still a long way from being anything near stable
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| 16:29 | kde that is
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| 16:29 | <johnny> sure.. but the kde project said that 4.0 wasn't meant for end users
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| 16:29 | the openoffice people say that 3.0 is
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| 16:29 | <jammcq> the people here are generally involved in total deployment issues and have a better sense of what makes a successful deployment in the real world
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| 16:29 | <alkisg> I think OOo 3.0 is stable enough, there weren't any biiiig changes to justify instability, like kde 3 => kde 4...
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| 16:29 | <TheProf> Just did as was recommend and downloaded a test .docx file. Ends up that Centos 5.2 only has 2.3 in the repository
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| 16:29 | <TheProf> Ergo it will not open .docx
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| 16:30 | <jammcq> whereas, if you have specific technical questiosn, then the official support channel would likely be better than here
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| 16:30 | but, back to my original comment... It sure doesn't bother me if people ask questions that aren't strictly #ltsp questions
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| 16:31 | <TheProf> Another issue is that most people who are deploying LTSP often are new to linux entirely, like me.
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| 16:31 | I came across it specifically to resolve an issue of a lab in a school/church
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| 16:31 | so the learning curve was/is steep.
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| 16:31 | And I need to cater to a whole audience and their needs rather than just me.
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| 16:32 | <jammcq> welp, i'm gonna go crawl back under my rock. have fun
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| 16:32 | <TheProf> And, as someone once mentioned before, asking in the specific channel often is received with silence.
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| 16:32 | <johnny> as it is often here
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| 16:33 | if you come at the wrong time
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| 16:33 | <TheProf> That is understandable.
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| 16:33 | <johnny> the real problem i have with these questions is not when it is quiet.. but specifically when it isn't :)
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| 16:34 | i hope you have personally installed linux on a standalone desktop ?
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| 16:34 | <TheProf> Thanks to people's feedback here, I now know that I do need to upgrade the installation, but only to 2.4 not 3
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| 16:34 | johnny: Yes I have several times.
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| 16:34 | <johnny> good
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| 16:35 | personally.. i don't trust centos or rhel.. packages are always too old for what my users expect
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| 16:35 | they may be super stable or whatever.. but they don't have the necessary features in the distro often
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| 16:35 | and then the upstream project wont support your super old release
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| 16:35 | <TheProf> johnny: I actually had the lab running on FC6 or 5 for a long time. only upgraded to centos 5 last week.
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| 16:35 | <johnny> ouch
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| 16:35 | <TheProf> but of course it's a tradeoff based on the speed of how FC moves.
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| 16:35 | <johnny> my uses would hate linux if they had to deal with software that old
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| 16:35 | and ugly
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| 16:36 | <TheProf> and I'm not confident enough to be able to do big upgrades like version jumps -- if it ain't broke..etc.
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| 16:36 | so I waited til Christmas break backed up and wiped everything
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| 16:37 | So all that's left is this OO docx thing and I'm reading for school
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> TheProf: I've opened a lot of .docx with my 2.4, so I'm sure about that. But I'm reading some comments on the internet saying that 2.3 also supports .docx. Did you right click on a .docx file and select "Open with Openoffice?"
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| 16:37 | e.g. http://www.formatds.org/openxml-docx-suport-in-openoffice/
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| 16:37 | <johnny> or just open it the manual way .. :)
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| 16:37 | <TheProf> alkisg: I did not no. I noticed that the system recognized the doc automatically. i will manually open it as you suggest
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| 16:39 | <TheProf> alkisg: I tried both right-click and manual open
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| 16:39 | it does not work
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| 16:39 | <alkisg> ok
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| 16:39 | <TheProf> it asks you for which filter to use
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| 16:40 | so it doesn't recognize that type.
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> Probably packaging differences
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| 16:40 | <alkisg> (in the link I posted above there's a how-to for manual installation of the plugin for 2.3, but I guess it should be safer to go to 2.4...)
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| 16:41 | <TheProf> alkisg: that was exactly what I was typing to ask you :)
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> I don't have much experience with Linux, so don't take my advices too seriously! :P All I know is that 2.4 in Intrepid reads docx!
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| 16:42 | <TheProf> good enough - I'll try to find the rpms for it and see what happens. at worst I can roll them back
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| 16:48 | <TheProf> 2.4.2 is the most recent one prior to 3 - later on in 2008 so it probably handles .docx no problem
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| 16:49 | These things become as important as the LTSP setup itself for end user acceptance. Otherwise they lump 'my docx file won't open' with 'linux is horrible'-- a conversation I've had over and over.
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> mine is: openoffice.org 1:2.4.1-11ubun OpenOffice.org Office suite
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| 16:50 | <TheProf> hmm..it is possible since ubuntu is suppose to be very user friendly they may have packaged it with some sort of docx capability.
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> Yeah, I know, but the funny thing is that they also complain about office 2003 not being able to read .docs ;)
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| 16:51 | <TheProf> weird!
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> Then I suppose you could follow the manual installation of the plugin
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| 16:51 | *.docx
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| 16:51 | <TheProf> It's a big file so it's still downloading.
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| 16:52 | hopefully - the installation instructions are those for version 3
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| 16:52 | <alkisg> Gotta go... good luck TheProf, and good night everyone.
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| 16:53 | <TheProf> alkisg: thanks for the help
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| 16:57 | <TheProf> Can you believe it -- exact same error as before.
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| 16:58 | Doesn't seem to have anything to do with the version I'm upgrading to. Alright off to visit centos.
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| 17:23 | posted half hour ago but not a peep from the Centos folks. the channel seems dead.
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| 17:24 | maybe Openoffice has a channel?
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| 17:42 | <johnny> TheProf, try bak at different times
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| 17:43 | <TheProf> johnny: Thanks. I am talking to someone in the OO channel so perhaps that will work.
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| 17:44 | <johnny> uggh. i can't get cgit to wor k:(
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| 19:39 | <TheProf> So I posted in both CentOS and OpenOffice channels and got nothing.
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| 19:39 | not a peep from anyone in Centos - the channel might be closed for New Year's day :)
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| 19:40 | I knew there was a reason I came to this channel for Linux questions -- people generally here are able to resolve issues.
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| 19:40 | Even though Centos has over 300 people in it.
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| 19:41 | <johnny> personally, i don't really see a reason to use centos
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| 19:41 | rhel perhaps..
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| 19:41 | due to the support
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| 19:41 | ubuntu stays a bit farther ahead of the game on the desktop side
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| 19:42 | i am using fedora10 right now tho
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| 19:42 | <TheProf> johnny: from what I thought rhel and Centos were suppose to be identical
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| 19:42 | <johnny> yeah.. except the support contracts
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| 19:42 | <TheProf> of course - they need to cover their costs somehow.
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| 19:42 | <johnny> sure.. just saying that's the only reason i'd ever use rhel
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| 19:43 | <TheProf> the nice thing is that the ltsp system is fully integrated with Centos.
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| 19:43 | <johnny> otherwise it seems better support is to be had with plain ubuntu
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| 19:43 | ubuntu was the first distro to have ltsp5
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| 19:43 | if it weren't for warren from fedora/redhat.. centos/rhel would have zero support :)
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| 19:43 | <TheProf> yes it's still version 4-something with centos
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| 19:44 | <johnny> that version is relatively unsupported
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| 19:44 | <TheProf> I am a little lost now with what to do.
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| 19:44 | <johnny> gentoo does not hardly even allow it, due to all the security issues
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| 19:45 | it will completely disappear from our repositories as soon as i can get ltsp5 merged in
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| 19:45 | <TheProf> sure - having less versions to maintain is an excellent goal
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| 19:45 | <johnny> nobody maintains ltsp4
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| 19:45 | as an upstream project
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| 19:46 | that is why it has security issues
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| 19:46 | <TheProf> it's just the ease of dropping in a CD and booting up a fully-functional LTSP server with specific educational software already on it is hard to beat.
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| 19:46 | <johnny> that's ubuntu
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| 19:46 | btw
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| 19:46 | or k12linux
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| 19:46 | <TheProf> that's exactly what I'm using
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| 19:46 | k12linux
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| 19:46 | sorry if I wasn't clear
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| 19:46 | <johnny> cuz you were talking about centos distributing ltsp4 :)
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| 19:46 | <TheProf> the K12ltsp based on EL-5
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| 19:47 | <johnny> aha
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| 19:47 | ok
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| 19:47 | don't the k12linux guys have hteir own channel?
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| 19:47 | or not?
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| 19:47 | maybe they just tell the people to come here now
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| 19:47 | as far as your problem.. your best bet would just be to come back later
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| 19:47 | like during the daytime :)
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| 19:47 | <TheProf> i think they do yes. It's not as active and I think it's more about education with respect to ltsp. But it's a good idea to check it also
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| 19:48 | <johnny> instead of fighting on
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| 19:48 | just come back when people are active
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| 19:48 | focus on other issues for now instead
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| 19:48 | <TheProf> Sounds good - I will do so.
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| 19:48 | Thank you very much.
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| 19:49 | <johnny> it seems all the serious education/business projects are most active during usa/europe business hours
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| 19:50 | <TheProf> I thought to take a risk as it's a holiday so maybe people would be around
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| 19:51 | <johnny> nope.. :)
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| 19:51 | even sites like slashdot are less active during holidays
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| 19:51 | guess even geeks have to visit their families :)
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| 19:51 | and get drunk
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| 19:51 | <TheProf> :)
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| 21:26 | <kingsley2> Hi
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| 21:43 | <kingsley3> Ugh, more net problems. But, I'm back again.
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| 23:17 | <Ryan52> I thought bzr had a stash command...do I need to install somethin special?
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