IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 28 February 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:48 | <rethus> hi @ all
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| 08:48 | have some questions about ltsp and bandwidth
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| 08:48 | how many bandwith per client should i have to use ltsp in a vpn-network
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| 08:48 | programms: only one siphone and webbrowser to display a intranet-webpage
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| 08:50 | are there some calculationg tools?
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| 08:52 | <alkisg> No, not really
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| 08:52 | Also, you might want to run the sipphone as a localapp if your clients are good enough. That would also save bandwidth.
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| 08:53 | (and if you ran the webbrower as a localapp too, then you needn't worry about the bandwidth at all :))
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| 08:57 | <rethus> alksig: but all happend on the server ?
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| 08:57 | or have i to install a lokal OS for ltsp?
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| 08:58 | how much bandwith i need for one client?
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| 08:59 | <alkisg> rethus: what are your client specs? (ram / cpu)?
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| 09:00 | <rethus> alkisg: i can eyplain shortly what i try to do, so you have more informations...
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| 09:01 | i want to create a vpn over www. The clients connect via sip-client to an Asterisk (telephone-server) and see an webapplication which manage this asterisk.
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| 09:02 | the clinets should be as small as possible and should use as small as possible bandwidth
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| 09:02 | so the clients should record the audiostream local.
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| 09:02 | the firefox browser and the sipphone can run at the clients (if possible)
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| 09:03 | I need many connections on one server... so do u think its possible?
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> How are you going to boot the clients? You'd need a local boot server.
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| 09:06 | But sure, if your clients are good enough to run the sipphone and the web browser locally, then you don't need much bandwidth.
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| 09:08 | <rethus> can i configure ltsp to cun like a local os?
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| 09:08 | what means boot-server? is an usb-stick enough
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> I mean that in usual LTSP installations, the ltsp server is in the local network, not over www.
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| 09:09 | You can't boot your clients with a usb stick in LTSP.
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| 09:10 | (there _are_ some people who have done this, but it's not standard practice)
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| 09:11 | <rethus> thats a problem
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| 09:11 | the server is hostet in a hosting-company
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| 09:11 | the clinets are the only machine in ech location all over germany
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| 09:12 | means: frankfurt (one thinclient... no local network) - cologne (1 thinclinet, no local network) and so on
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| 09:12 | vision is to start the thinclinent, connect automaticly ia vpn to the server and doeing the whole work
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| 09:12 | u know what i mean
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> Yes, I know what you mean. But LTSP isn't designed to be used that way.
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| 09:13 | It would need patching to get it to boot from USB sticks.
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| 09:13 | <rjune> rethus, you'll probably need to use NX
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> It's doable, but coding skills would be required to do it.
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| 09:14 | Or a live usb stick :)
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| 09:14 | <rjune> or a CD
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| 09:14 | <rethus> rjune: jes, i see freenx and x2go... what are the best and easyest nx u think?
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> E.g.: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
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| 09:14 | <rethus> so i only wan't to be shure, that ltsp not work for my needings
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| 09:15 | <rjune> LTSP isn't the best tool for you.
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| 09:15 | <rethus> what is your tipp?
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| 09:15 | <rjune> A Custom Ubuntu or Fedora liveCD is probably a better path
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| 09:15 | <rethus> what should i use for my needings
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| 09:15 | ok.
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| 09:17 | target is to keep the technik on clientside as small as possible. so i didn't have to support so much time
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| 09:17 | therefore i think about thinclient
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| 09:17 | only power on, and all works.. no updates, no crashed systems after missconfiguration and so on.
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> rethus: how fast are your network connections?
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| 09:18 | <rethus> as small as possible (but till 6Mbit)
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| 09:18 | better if 1mbit is possible)
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Then you'd better *not* boot from www.
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| 09:18 | <rethus> or only isdn
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| 09:18 | ok
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| 09:18 | so i use nx ?
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> You'd need a day to boot from web by using isdn :)
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| 09:19 | <rethus> :D
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| 09:19 | * alkisg would go for a live usb stick. | |
| 09:19 | <rethus> so i create a minimalized linux (or use damn small linux) and do an nx connection?
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> Why would you do an nx connection?
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| 09:19 | didn't you say that they'd need to record the audio locally?
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| 09:20 | <rethus> the software is used every weeks one till two times.. i'm not shure if usb-stick livetime is long enough
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| 09:20 | yes
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> With live usb sticks, data isn't *written* to them (usually). So there isn't a problem with the life time
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| 09:21 | <rethus> but usb-stick have also limited reading-times ?! (i'm not shure)
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| 09:21 | sure
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> But if you're going to use a hard disk to record the audio, then you can use the same disk to store the OS
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| 09:22 | <rethus> jes, thats no problem
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| 09:23 | so o better do an small linux installation on local pc, and use NX ?
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| 09:24 | <alkisg> I still don't understand why you'd need nx
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| 09:25 | The sipphone and the web browser connect to the server.
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| 09:25 | Why would you need nx?
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| 09:26 | <rethus> jes, i think i didn't need it...
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| 09:26 | if i connected via vpn, i'm in the same network and can directly use sip
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| 09:27 | ok. thanks for your support. if no thin-client is possible. i think i do a normaly vpn connection and normaly os installation on clientside
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| 09:27 | thanks
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> Thin clients require much more bandwidth that isdn or 1mbps
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| 09:29 | They're not suited to your use case.
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| 09:35 | <rethus> i know now. thanks a lot
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| 11:22 | <ark_> hi, i'm trying to use ltsp5 with thin clients encore entc-1000, is it possible?, the docs say that this thin client supports only xdmcp
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| 11:22 | can i use xdmcp with ltsp5?
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| 11:22 | <Appiah> ltsp does not use xdmcp
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| 11:23 | <jammcq> you won't have some of the finer features of LDM
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| 11:23 | you'll miss out on audio, local devices and local apps
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| 11:23 | it doesn't use xdmcp, because xdmcp is not secure
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| 11:23 | <ark_> jammcq: it's no problem
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| 11:23 | jammcq: i just need those thin clients to work
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| 11:23 | <jammcq> it's almost trivial to snoop on the network and capture passwords
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| 11:23 | <Appiah> what does says it only supports xdmcp?
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| 11:24 | what doc*
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| 11:24 | <ark_> Appiah: the manuals of the thin clients says they only support xdmcp
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| 11:24 | <Appiah> well can it PXEboot?
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| 11:24 | <jammcq> ark_: if your thin clients support xdmcp, then you wouldn't be using LTSP at all.
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| 11:24 | <ark_> Appiah: i already installed ltsp5 in ubuntu9.04, but it doesn't work
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| 11:25 | Appiah: mmm, not sure, but it's supposed to be in the nic
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| 11:25 | <jammcq> you just need to enable remote logins in your login manager and point your thin clients at that server
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| 11:25 | <ark_> jammcq: mmm, true, but xdmcp is not working for me
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| 11:25 | <Appiah> well ltsp uses pxe , how did you try it?
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| 11:25 | <jammcq> ark_: did you enable it on the server?
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| 11:25 | <Appiah> since you say "it doesn't work" and you are not pxe booting ,your not using ltsp..
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| 11:25 | <ark_> Appiah: mmm, i have not tried pxe on those thin clients, not sure if it's possible
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| 11:26 | jammcq: yes, it's enabled, and it works, but too slow
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| 11:26 | <jammcq> what's too slow?
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| 11:26 | <ark_> Appiah: mmm, I'm not sure how to use ltsp with those thin clients
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| 11:26 | <Appiah> well check the bios on the thin client
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| 11:26 | <ark_> jammcq: mmm, especifically flash, but the server is very powerful
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| 11:26 | <Appiah> yes XDMCP is slow
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| 11:27 | <jammcq> XDMCP is simply a method to get logged in. Once logged in, you'd be using the "X" protocol
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| 11:27 | <ark_> Appiah: jammcq: thanks, i'll try to see if it's possible with the bios
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| 11:27 | Appiah: yep, too slow
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| 11:27 | <jammcq> and you'd be using that regardless of whether you are doing LDM with LTSP, or XDMCP
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| 11:27 | <Appiah> enable "Lan boot rom" / Pxe boot
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| 11:28 | <jammcq> what kind of CPU is in the thin client?
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| 11:28 | <ark_> jammcq: mmm, not sure...
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| 11:29 | jammcq: yep, true about the login..., i'm not sure how to use pxe with thos thin clients
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| 11:29 | <Appiah> check the bios settings on the thin client
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| 11:29 | <jammcq> if it's not in the bios, then you probably can't
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| 11:30 | <Appiah> whats the name and manufacture of the thin clients?
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| 11:30 | <ark_> Appiah: it's a thin client encore entc-1000
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| 11:30 | Appiah: i'm searching if it's possibble to enable the pxe boot
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| 11:30 | <jammcq> how old is it?
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| 11:31 | <Appiah> arm processor?
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| 11:31 | <ark_> jammcq: i'd say it's around 2008
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| 11:31 | jammcq: they're low cost thin clients
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| 11:31 | jammcq: the processor, I think it's a cirologic...
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| 11:32 | <jammcq> it's probably slow because it's a very slow processor
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| 11:32 | <Appiah> * Processor: Cirrus Logic EP9307 ARM 200 MHz
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| 11:32 | <ark_> Appiah: yep...
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| 11:32 | <johnny> you're gonna have to build an arm chroot... fun..
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| 11:32 | <Appiah> well build a arm chroot , and pxeboot the client , then you will be using LTSP
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| 11:32 | <johnny> hmm.. are there arm binaries for ldm and ltspfs ?
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| 11:33 | <jammcq> No clue
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| 11:33 | <Appiah> umm
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| 11:33 | oh wait
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| 11:33 | I was thinking ppc
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| 11:33 | <johnny> hmm.. there are arm chroots for specific arms
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| 11:33 | <Appiah> for some reason
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| 11:33 | <johnny> idon't know if it covers those..
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| 11:34 | <Appiah> it does not
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| 11:34 | <ark_> mmm, thanks to all, it's true about the arm, i'll be trying that
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| 11:36 | <jammcq> I wouldn't expect great performance with flash
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| 11:36 | it's only a 200Mhz
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| 11:37 | <Appiah> there is ltspfs in arm
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| 11:37 | and such
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| 11:37 | <ark_> jammcq: mmm, true, does ltsp support arm?
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| 11:37 | <Appiah> so you can use ltsp
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| 11:37 | but it would be slow
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| 11:37 | <ark_> Appiah: mmm, yep, maybe slow, i'm just trying these thin clients
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| 11:37 | <Appiah> since you got it setup already
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| 11:37 | <jammcq> how much ram ?
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| 11:37 | <Appiah> you could just try
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| 11:38 | just enable pxe on those clients..
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| 11:38 | <ark_> jammcq: mmm, the thin client has 512 MB
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| 11:38 | <ark_> jammcq: the server has right now 4GB, but maybe we'll get another 4
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| 11:39 | Appiah: i'll try that, and does ltsp support arm?
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| 11:39 | Appiah: i'm using ubuntu9.04
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| 11:39 | <Appiah> like I said, there is arm packages for some of the things in the chroot , I havent checked _all_ packages but you could simply try
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| 11:39 | ltsp-build-client --arch=arm
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| 11:40 | <ark_> jeje, thanks Appiah
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| 11:40 | <johnny> that shouldn't work
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| 11:40 | <Appiah> huh?
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| 11:40 | <johnny> Appiah, it's just like ppc
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| 11:40 | you can't build it on x86
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| 11:41 | without using some sort of emulator
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| 11:41 | <Appiah> oh
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| 11:41 | <johnny> unless they fixed that..
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| 11:41 | <ark_> johnny: mmm, that's bad
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| 11:41 | <Appiah> I thought building ppc went fine on a x86/x86_64 server
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| 11:41 | <johnny> really.. if it's just a matter of unpacking binaries (which it should be)
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| 11:41 | Appiah, perahps that has changed in 2 years
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| 11:41 | <Appiah> and then thought arm would be just as ok
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| 11:41 | <johnny> but i had to build my ppc chroot on a mac
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| 11:41 | <Appiah> ok
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| 11:41 | <johnny> imac actually..
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| 11:42 | even though it should just be a matter of unpacking binaries.. that doesn't seem to be the case
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| 11:42 | ogra, are you here?
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| 11:42 | Appiah, also.. there are various arm arches
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| 11:42 | i'm not sure which is required for which proc
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| 11:43 | ark_, you might have to setup some netboot situation to build the chroot on arm
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| 11:43 | or convince some arm users to build you a chroot
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| 11:43 | <ark_> johnny: mmm, sounds complicated
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| 11:43 | <johnny> would be nice if ogra could convince canonical to provide arm chroots as a zip
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| 11:43 | <johnny> err tarball
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| 11:43 | just download and unpack
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| 11:43 | <ark_> johnny: apparently, ubuntu does not support arm yet, they have some betas
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| 11:44 | <johnny> ark_, sure.. but they are probably supported enough overall
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| 11:44 | the needs for the chroot are slim, unlike a full distro
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| 11:44 | as long as the boot stuff works, and X works.. the ubuntu part is good enough
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| 11:44 | the only question then is whether ldm/ltspfs works on arm
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| 11:44 | <ark_> there's a thread in ltsp-discuss about arm
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| 11:44 | <johnny> well don't be concerned about the ubuntu parts
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| 11:45 | if one of them has an arm setup.. ask them to tar up their chroot for your distro
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| 11:45 | and get it to you somehow
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| 11:45 | that would be simple enough
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| 11:48 | <ark_`> mmm, i had problems with my pc, and lost connection...
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| 11:49 | <ark_`> mmm, in the list, someone asked if it was possible to use arm if they don't use gnome, but something like xfce
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| 11:49 | maybe it's complicated
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| 11:53 | <Appiah> woah
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| 11:58 | <johnny> well that's irrelevent from the ltsp side of things ark_ .. since it runs on the server
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| 11:59 | <ark_> johnny: mmm, i understand, then, it's enough with the basic packages
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| 12:00 | <johnny> and the ltsp packages..
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| 12:10 | <vagrantc> for the record, i added cross-architecture support to debian's ltsp about 8 months ago.
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| 12:10 | though the only one that works for me is armel.
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| 12:11 | <vagrantc> you just need to have the qemu-user-static package installed
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| 12:11 | it doesn't automatically set up network booting, and you need to know which kernel to use...
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| 12:11 | but it actually builds the chroot.
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| 12:11 | johnny: on debian, it's more than just unpacking binaries because of the post-install scripts.
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| 12:15 | <ark_> than q
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| 12:24 | <johnny> vagrantc, taht's why i suggested he find somebody to share a tarball with all the binaries unpacked and whatnot
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| 14:34 | <vagrantc> johnny: with arm it's pretty difficult, as you need to get the exact right kernel
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| 15:29 | <AndyGraybeal> can someone walk me through applying this patch to my ltsp? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17978568/udev.patch
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| 15:30 | it's from this forum: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/273147
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| 15:30 | i know this might be frustrating that i don't know how to do this on my own.. but i'm still learning. if there are documents that i can read to do this i would be thankful for links to those as well.
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| 15:35 | <AndyGraybeal> it says that the bug was fixed in 0.5.3-2ubuntu1, and i have 5.1.29-0ubuntu3
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| 15:35 | er atleast i think i do
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| 15:36 | ah ltspfs....
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| 15:36 | 0.5.5-0ubuntu1
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| 15:37 | when i plug in a usb stick to the client, it doesn't work.
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| 15:38 | hopefully someone can help me.
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| 15:58 | <AndyGraybeal> when i logon a the same user on two terminals, and i run a program.. that program sometimes pops on up the other terminal! how do i get this to stop from happening?
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> don't log in with the same user in multiple places :P
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| 16:00 | <AndyGraybeal> hmm.. okay
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> most modern GUI software is too stupid to distinguish.
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| 16:00 | <AndyGraybeal> can multiple users share the same desktop?
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| 16:01 | or the same 'documents' folder?
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> you can definitely set up shared folders.
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| 16:01 | <johnny> no
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| 16:01 | ah.. yes.. shared is the way to go
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| 16:03 | <AndyGraybeal> thank you
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| 18:10 | <johnny> is the fatclient plugin supposed to work still?
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