IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 May 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 04:15 | <markvandenborre> is there any arm machine that I could use as an ltsp client?
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| 04:17 | <johnny> beagleboard is one possible way. probably something better out now
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| 04:25 | <markvandenborre> openrd and friend?
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| 04:25 | s
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| 04:36 | johnny: have any more info on that?
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| 04:40 | obviously, one could boot it into some kind of thicker client
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| 04:40 | is that what you mean?
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| 04:41 | or do you mean netbooting that thing?
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| 04:41 | using a pxe-like mechanism?
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| 04:41 | something tftp-based?
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| 04:46 | <alkisg> Any ideas for an easy way to create swap partitions on ltsp clients, if they have a small disk with windows on it? (so resize ntfs/fat32 partition + create swap partition will be needed).
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| 04:46 | E.g. I thought about adding a SCREEN_07=gparted screen script, but that won't work well with 64MB clients.
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| 05:12 | <Appiah> ssh to them
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| 05:12 | use fdisk and mkswap
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| 05:34 | <alkisg> Appiah: well... it'd be hard for teachers to use ntfsresize progs and then parted. fdisk won't do, it doesn't resize partitions.
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| 05:35 | I wonder if the debian install cd or the ubuntu alternate cd can be used for that - i.e. just for resize + partitioning.
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| 05:38 | <NeonLichT> What about the Parted LiveCD?
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> Which one is that? The gparted live cd? That won't work with 64 RAM... or is there a parted live cd as well?
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| 05:39 | <NeonLichT> Probably you could boot without X, console only with it.
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| 05:40 | <alkisg> The parted console binary doesn't support ntfs
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| 05:40 | It suggests to use ntfsprogs instead, which is hard for a person with no technical expertise...
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| 05:40 | <NeonLichT> Oh, doesn't it?
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| 05:44 | I think the Gparted LiveCD might work with 64MB RAM.
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| 05:48 | alkisg: maybe also on the hiren boot CD there is a tool which could do it.
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| 05:50 | <alkisg> I think the hiren's boot cd isn't freeware (it contains pirated software) so I couldn't really propose it to teachers. I'm still looking for the gparted live cd requirements, but I'm afraid it won't work with 64mb ram
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| 05:50 | I tried to install gparted to the chroot and run it instead of ldm, and it did run, but I don't think the ram will suffice for a resize operation
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| 05:52 | <NeonLichT> I can't find it's requirements, either, but I think it loads Gparted without a window manager, so that it might work with 64MB. Not sure about the resize operation requirements, though.
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> I think ltsp with nbd swap will have a better chance of running gparted than the live cd (which has no swap)... I'll try to see if it gets through with a small resize operation... :-/
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| 05:58 | <NeonLichT> Mmmhhh... what about Tini Core linux? I'm going to check if it has Gparted as a package.
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| 06:01 | It does.
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| 06:04 | <alkisg> Won't it have the same ram problems though? I don't think there's any recent distro light enough to properly run gparted with a gui...
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| 06:04 | <NeonLichT> Maybe, although TCL is only 10MB
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| 06:05 | It loads itself into RAM, though.
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| 06:06 | I'm installing Gparted into it to see how much RAM it needs.
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| 06:07 | Maybe I say something with no sense but, wouldn't it work if you run Gparted as a local app booting LTSP?
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| 06:09 | <alkisg> NeonLichT: what I did was run gparted _instead_ of ldm
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| 06:09 | That is like a localapp, but saving some memory, as ldm and ldmgtkgreeter do not need to run
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| 06:09 | ...and no window manager either
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| 06:09 | I also had nbd_swap enabled, giving some network swapping to the client for the resize operation
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| 06:10 | <NeonLichT> I see, that sounds realy nice :)
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> I think that's as low (memory wise) as it can get
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| 06:10 | ...but it still seemed too much to me. I didn't try the actual resize, but gparted was really slow.
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| 06:10 | <NeonLichT> Probably, yes. Unless you go console only.
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| 06:10 | <alkisg> Right, but I can't find a console tool that supports both fat + ntfs
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| 06:11 | Maybe some installer, either the debian one or the ubuntu alternate cd one
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| 06:11 | <NeonLichT> Isn't placing the hard disk into another box to do the resize operation an option at all?
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| 06:12 | <alkisg> No, not really, it's for teachers which have no technical expertise
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| 06:12 | If I can't find some linux-based way to propose to them, I'll just tell them to use an acronis demo or something like that
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| 06:13 | <NeonLichT> I see.
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| 06:14 | Running out of ideas, you have a pretty tight scenario to move on XDD
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| 06:16 | <alkisg> Heh :) Thanks for your thoughts though
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| 06:27 | Uh... the debian business card cd seemed to work fine, but then refused to go on and apply the changes because I had not set a root file system :-/
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| 06:42 | <NeonLichT> too bad...
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| 07:05 | Did you try again, alkisg?
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| 07:06 | <alkisg> Nope, I didn't finish all of the tests yet
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| 07:06 | I want to try the gparted + network swap first, to see if I can pull it off with 64mb ram
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| 07:07 | <NeonLichT> OK, let me know when you find out, I'm xurious. :)
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| 07:07 | <alkisg> ok - if it works I'll even push the screen script upstream..
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| 07:07 | <NeonLichT> That'd be great.
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| 08:24 | <alkisg> Heh, it worked fine with a fat chroot, but it didn't work with a thin chroot!
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| 08:24 | I'm suspecting that something (e.g. compcache) is making the thin chroots heavier than the fat chroots...
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| 08:34 | <hettto> Hello, I have problem with firefox/thunderbird on LTSP: firefox is running in the user's chroot and thunderbird outside the chroot. When a link in thunderbird is clicked - firefox tries to open: "www.%u.com". any idea on how to fix that?
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| 08:49 | <vbundi> if I want to print from localapps firefox do I need to install cups in my chroot, or is there a different way
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| 10:10 | <markvandenborre> is there any cheap arm hardware that can be used as an thin client with ltsp?
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| 10:13 | <markvandenborre> as in: tftp u-boot without embedded flash
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| 10:15 | http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-33-guruplug-display.aspx looks really cool
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| 10:19 | <ogra> markvandenborre, you should be able to make a guruplug work in debian
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| 10:19 | or wait for ubuntu 10.10 that will have support for the beagle XM
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| 10:24 | <markvandenborre> ogra: nice
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| 10:25 | * markvandenborre is off (still grateful to jammcq who was very helpful in the early days when I first experimented with LTSP and free software in general!) | |
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| 10:50 | <alkisg> NeonLichT: I've tested it, it runs OK, and I've written a page about "how to run gparted locally on a thin client by running it as a screen script": https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/GParted
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| 11:20 | <NeonLichT> Great, alkisg, thanks for sahring it! :-)
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| 11:22 | , is it only for Ubuntu?
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> NeonLichT: no, I don't think so, it should apply to all distros except for the installation commands (chroot apt-get install etc)
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| 11:42 | <ogra_cmpc> alkisg, i wouldnt add the bind mounting of the apt cache, that will become messy with cross arch
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| 11:43 | <jammcq> ogra_cmpc: hey
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| 11:43 | <johnny> oops, linode was down
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| 11:43 | <ogra_cmpc> hey
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| 11:43 | <jammcq> I went to Jorge's wedding last night
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| 11:43 | he's all married up now
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| 11:43 | <ogra_cmpc> cool
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| 11:43 | <jammcq> \names
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| 11:44 | oops
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| 11:44 | <ogra_cmpc> heh
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| 11:58 | <alkisg> ogra_cmpc, why would it be messy? afaik you can download any arch package into the cache
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| 11:58 | Much better than just leaving the cache on the chroot and the compressed nbd image...
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| 11:58 | <ogra_cmpc> i'm not sure they will get cleaned up
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| 11:59 | <alkisg> How will they get cleaned up on the chroot?
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| 11:59 | On the server, an apt-get autoclean cleans the obsolete packages, and apt-get clean cleans all of them
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| 11:59 | Independent of their arch
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| 12:00 | (btw it'd be better if we made an "ltsp-enter-chroot" command which would contain the best practices, whatever those are...)
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| 12:01 | <ogra_cmpc> i thought vagrant wrote ltsp-chroot years ago
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> Ah, didn't know that one. Nice, we could extend it to mount the cache, proc, dev/pts and whatever else is needed
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| 12:03 | ...and also put it to /usr/sbin
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| 12:07 | <ogra_cmpc> sure, talk to vagrant
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| 12:08 | <alkisg> Will do, thanks
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| 12:08 | <RicardoPerez> alkisg: hi! can I ask you one little question about exporting DBUS_* to the chroot?
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> RicardoPerez: erm, sure, but I'm not sure that I'll be able to answer it
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| 12:09 | <RicardoPerez> alkisg: let's try it, if you want
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> Shoot
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| 12:10 | <RicardoPerez> thanks! in order to get a graphical app to run into the chroot, I need to export DISPLAY, but I think I need to export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS, too
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| 12:10 | because I get some error messages related with dbus
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| 12:11 | the question is that I don't know what value assign to the DBUS_* env var
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| 12:12 | the error message is "process 4204: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id"" ...
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| 12:12 | <alkisg> Hmmm... let's start with `echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS`, and if it doesn't work then let's see if it needs some bind-mounting in order to find it..
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| 12:12 | Which program are you trying to run?
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| 12:13 | <RicardoPerez> I'm trying to run gnome-language-selector
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> (also, note what I told you last time, that this isn't recommented - at least I don't know how to properly run X/dbus chrooted programs)
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| 12:13 | <RicardoPerez> alkisg, yes, you're right ;)
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| 12:14 | well, "echo $DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS" is empty, no result
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| 12:14 | (inside the chroot, i mean)
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| 12:15 | outside the chroot i get a unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-HTSAod9DIH,guid=2ae0ee663b0d9aa6268efada4c03e6d5
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> Try this command: sudo LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false DISPLAY=$DISPLAY DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=$DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 12:15 | Then just run gnome-language-selector (you're in the chroot)
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| 12:16 | <RicardoPerez> mmmm... unfortunately, i get the same error message:
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| 12:16 | | |
| 12:17 | besides that, the tool is shown and I can click buttons, but after trying to download the langpacks, the tool stops
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> try this before it: sudo mount --bind /var/lib/dbus /opt/ltsp/i386/var/lib/dbus
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| 12:17 | But again, warning - warning - warning - it's not my fault if it breaks everything :)
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| 12:17 | <RicardoPerez> alkisg, don't worry! i'm only testing :)
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| 12:18 | well, it seems to be a good improvement!
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| 12:19 | unfortunately, now i got a gconf fault
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| 12:19 | GConf Error: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://projects.gnome.org/gconf/ for information. (Details - 1: Failed to get connection to session: Did not receive a reply. Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply, the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the rep
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| 12:19 | ly timeout expired, or the network connection was broken.)
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| 12:19 | it seems to be a hard thing :/
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| 12:20 | <alkisg> Yeah, and even if it works, it might modify some stuff on the server instead of the chroot.
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| 12:20 | Why don't you just apt-get install the necessary packages for language support?
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| 12:20 | <RicardoPerez> don't worry about that, then... i'll try to do it by hand
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| 12:21 | yes, you're right, i'll do it manually, changing /etc/environment with LANG and LANGUAGE vars and installing langpacks by hand
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| 12:21 | it's the best approach
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| 12:21 | thank you very much after all, alkisg!
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> np
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| 12:24 | <RicardoPerez> is there an easy way to install an LTSP server with thin clients but with SOME apps running locally like in fat clients?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Sure, that's called localapps. See the wiki, there are some pages there.
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| 12:25 | <RicardoPerez> great, i'll look at then, thanks again!
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| 13:38 | <asmok> Hello. Please, read this question: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2010-May/006269.html
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| 13:39 | How to disable infobox on boot process with ltsp-cluster?
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