IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 August 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:20 | <warren> Too bad LTSP doesn't have a registered trademark
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| 01:21 | cannot defend uses of LTSP that are confusingly similar but different
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| 01:26 | <jcastro> warren: just sent you a mail wrt. the kiwi thing
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| 01:47 | <lejo> euhm we don't have a IP_SERVER in our lts.conf (on opensuse)
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| 01:48 | the lts.conf is nothing different then what is upstream
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| 01:58 | <cyberorg> lejo, it is just SERVER
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| 01:58 | <lejo> indeed
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| 06:45 | <coolio> how can i solve a server boot issue; "kinit: No resume image, doing normal boot...." and it just hangs
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| 06:52 | <coolio> i am using hardy : it also times out on another terminal login
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| 06:57 | <ogra> thats a proper message
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| 06:57 | no error
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| 06:57 | it just tells you that there was no suspend before booting ... so it doesnt have a resume image
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| 06:57 | your prob lies elsewhere
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| 07:03 | <ogra> coolio, does the server properly boot to a login gui ?
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| 07:07 | <coolio> nope no gui
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| 07:07 | hi ogra
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| 07:07 | i just tried fixing X server, that did not work either
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| 07:08 | i know have root login, any suggestions
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| 07:08 | <ogra> so if it boots, do you get to a non graphical login prompt ?
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| 07:08 | (on the server)
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| 07:08 | <coolio> yep
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| 07:09 | root@lnix:/#
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| 07:09 | <ogra> and you had a gui login before ?
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| 07:09 | <coolio> yes before we booted the machine
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| 07:09 | <coolio> been up for 7days
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| 07:09 | <ogra> ??
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| 07:09 | ah
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| 07:09 | sounds like you are out of diskspace or some such
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| 07:10 | <coolio> did not want to read usb so we rebooted and then we got this message
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| 07:10 | <ogra> which message ?
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| 07:12 | <coolio> got this bug report from launchpad but we run hardy
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| 07:12 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/103148
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| 07:12 | <ogra> did you check your diskspace ?
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| 07:12 | thats no error as i said above
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| 07:13 | you have it on every boot
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| 07:13 | df -h should tell you how much space you have left
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| 07:13 | the kinit message is unrelated
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| 07:15 | <coolio> nope 160gb drive clean ubuntu+edubuntu install nothing else
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| 07:16 | i just rebooted and it hangs on " *Starting GNOME Display Manager
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| 07:17 | <ogra> if you log in as a normal user, can you touch files in /tmp ?
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| 07:18 | and are your disks mounted rw ?
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| 07:18 | might be a HD failure ... ext3 will automatically be remounted readonly in such a case
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| 07:18 | <coolio> it times out when I try to logon in terminal 2
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| 07:19 | <ogra> (thats why using root is just silly, on normal usre accounts you would immediately get the proper error message on login)
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| 07:19 | <coolio> so do you think it my hdd
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| 07:19 | <ogra> might be
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| 07:20 | do you have /home on a separate partition ?
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| 07:20 | do you have any weird ldap setup that could block ?
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| 07:20 | <coolio> nope straight forward single partition
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| 07:21 | <ogra> is there any error message if it times out on normal user logins ?
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| 07:22 | (we are only talking about the server here atm, right ? you dont have a thin client involved in all that atm ?)
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| 07:23 | <coolio> nope
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| 07:23 | not at all
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| 07:23 | they wont boot as the server has not started up
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| 07:24 | think we need to reinstall
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| 07:24 | <ogra> well, if there is a HW issue you should rather find it
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| 07:25 | the behavior is realy very similar to a full disk or a readonly filesystem, but if you are sure neither is the case and the usual logfiles like dmesg, messages and syslog dont tell you anything about errors ....
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| 07:25 | <coolio> weird it just came back after a reboot
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| 07:26 | <coolio> I have no clue what the heck just happend
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| 07:27 | <jimjimovich> Hi Guys. Made lots of progress on our setup today, just one more problem. Need your help! I can't seem to make monitor resolutions for specific terminals work in my lts.conf file
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| 07:30 | something like X_MODE_0 = "1280x1024"; does not work. I did get it to work once, but then after logging into the terminal it reverted to 1024x768
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| 07:30 | <ogra> did you specify the right X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFERSH values ?
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| 07:30 | <jimjimovich> ogra: I haven't been able to get that to work at all :(
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| 07:30 | <ogra> very likely your monitor is nor reporting the proper DDC values
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| 07:30 | so if you set the right ones i wil start to work
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| 07:30 | look in your monitor manual
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| 07:30 | <jimjimovich> what would X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFERSH be for an LCD panel?
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| 07:31 | <ogra> look in your monitor manual
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| 07:31 | *X_VERTREFRESH sorry, typo
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| 07:32 | <jimjimovich> what are all the values that can be set for a monitor? I only saw X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTSYNC before
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| 07:32 | <ogra> where did you see X_VERTSYNC ?
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| 07:32 | that was definately never used anywhere
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| 07:33 | <jimjimovich> ok, i'm dumb. sorry
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| 07:33 | i didn't see it
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| 07:33 | <ogra> the values need to be n your monitor handbook
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| 07:33 | <coolio> hi ogra tx
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| 07:33 | <jimjimovich> i was messing with those values earlier on some older monitors, and was never able to get it to work. perhaps it will work with this lcd. will give it a try.
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| 07:33 | <ogra> alternatively you can plug the monitor into a system where you know you get he desired resolution and run xvidtune ... it shows the values
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| 07:52 | <coolio> hw do I check if dhcp is running
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| 07:57 | <jimjimovich> ogra: got the values from xvidtune, but still no luck. it seems that it makes no difference on any of my monitors
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| 08:03 | <coolio> weird problem now i cant even sudo to run ltsp-update-image
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| 08:03 | just hang with authorisation
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| 08:04 | <ogra> any hints in the logs?
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| 08:07 | <jimjimovich> ogra: logs for monitors?
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| 08:07 | <ogra> jimjimovich, no, i was talking to coolio
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| 08:08 | <jimjimovich> ogra: is there somewhere i can paste my lts.conf for you to look at? maybe i'm making some simple mistake ...
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| 08:09 | <ogra> !pastebot
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| 08:09 | <ltspbot> ogra: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 08:09 | <ogra> ^^^^
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| 08:10 | <ltsppbot> "jimjimovich" pasted "[Default] X_MODE_0 = "1024x768" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/45
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| 08:12 | <ogra> did you try without the default section ? and are you sure the HORZSYNC, VERTREFRESH values are actually correct ?
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| 08:13 | <jimjimovich> yes, both from the manual and from xvidtune on a working computer
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| 08:13 | yes, tried without the default
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| 08:13 | <ogra> and the MAC is correct as well ?
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| 08:13 | <jimjimovich> i tried it with several CRT monitors earlier today, and also had no luck
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| 08:13 | yes
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| 08:13 | <ogra> what distro is that ?
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| 08:14 | <jimjimovich> ubuntu 8.10.1
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| 08:14 | 8.04.1
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| 08:14 | <ogra> 8.10 ??
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| 08:14 | ah :)
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| 08:14 | <jimjimovich> sorry
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| 08:14 | <ogra> and your lts.conf is located properly in the tftp directory ?
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| 08:14 | <jimjimovich> it's in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 08:14 | <ogra> ok
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| 08:15 | what graphics HW do your clients have ?
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| 08:15 | <jimjimovich> well, that's the problem, they're all kind of random
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| 08:15 | but at this point, i'm just looking to find a newer motherboard (with integrated garphics) and LCD combo that works well together
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| 08:16 | <jimjimovich> so that we can buy a bunch of the same ones
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| 08:16 | <ogra> err ...
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| 08:16 | drop the smicolons from the lines in lts.conf
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| 08:16 | *semicolons
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| 08:16 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 08:16 | <ogra> that definately wont work
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| 08:16 | hey jammcq
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| 08:16 | <jammcq> hey
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| 08:17 | <ogra> also add SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm to your default section
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| 08:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> morning all
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| 08:17 | <ogra> that way you can swtich to tty2 on the booted client and check the generated xorg.conf that the values you have set actually end up in ther
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| 08:18 | <jimjimovich> ogra: dang semicolons! that's what i get for working on lts.conf and dhcp conf at the same time
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| 08:18 | <ogra> heh
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| 08:18 | <jimjimovich> ok, great. will try that out now
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| 08:39 | <jimjimovich> ogra: you're a genius! thanks!
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| 08:39 | <ogra> ;)
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| 08:40 | <jimjimovich> now, if my hardware wasn't so old and junky. hehe
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| 08:40 | got some 12 year old computers here running at terminals. kinda nuts
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| 08:40 | <ogra> well, butthey should do the job :)
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| 08:41 | <jimjimovich> they do for the most part. it's just a matter of finding the right monitor/video card combos
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| 08:43 | which leads me to another issue. lets say you have different monitors running at different resolutions. is it possible to make the user screen resolution stick to the machine. right now, if i log into a machine at 800x600, the next machine i go to also tries to use 800x600
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| 08:43 | <ogra> you mean when you select the screen in the gnome tool ?
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| 08:43 | s&screen/size/
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| 08:43 | <jimjimovich> yes
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| 08:44 | <ogra> thats a per user setting
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| 08:44 | stored in gconf
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| 08:44 | you could try to lock down the gconf setting for it ... dig a bit in gconf-editor
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| 08:44 | so users are not able to set it
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| 08:44 | <jimjimovich> ok, but i still have the problem of having different resoltuions on different terminals
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| 08:45 | <ogra> then it will always use the X setup
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| 08:46 | <jimjimovich> ok, i'll have to mess with that tomorrow. thanks for the pointer. it's been a long day of LTSP!
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| 08:49 | oh, one last question. is there anything that can be done about the long login times? seems like it takes about 30-60 seconds to check the password
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| 09:07 | <jimjimovich> anyone used any Intel® GMA 3000 integrated video? i know the 950 works well, so hopefully this would too
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:10 | <hp> hello ogra, thanks a lot, I tried ubuntu ltsp, and it's great
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| 09:12 | do have one more question though, i tried configuring a locally attached Epson LX300II to a thin client
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| 09:13 | on the lts.conf, I added the line under the mac address, PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/lp0
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| 09:13 | don't notice anything happening at all
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| 09:14 | <ogra> you need to configure th eprinter in the user session
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| 09:14 | PRINTER_0_DEVICE=/dev/lp0
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| 09:14 | <hp> checked on the logs but am not really sure what to look for, there doesn't seem to be anything pointing to an error
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| 09:14 | <ogra> will just run the jetdirect forwarder
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| 09:15 | is that a parallel printer ?
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| 09:15 | <hp> yes, it is
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| 09:15 | <ogra> ok
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| 09:15 | <hp> it is a parallel printer
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| 09:15 | <ogra> well, in the user session select to add a new printer in the print tool
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| 09:15 | <hp> I did, and then I chose local printer
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| 09:15 | <ogra> make that a jetdirect printer and point it to the IP of the client
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| 09:16 | no, thats wrong
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| 09:16 | local printer would be something attached to the server
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| 09:16 | <hp> ok, will follow your advise
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| 09:16 | <ogra> (your user session runs on the server)
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| 09:17 | <ogra> it needs to be a "appsocket/jetdirect" printer
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| 09:17 | <hp> I tried that
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| 09:17 | but go on ogra, I must've missed something earlier or did something wrong
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| 09:17 | <ogra> and point to port 9100 of the client ... you find the ip of every client at the bottom right in the login window if nobody is logged in
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| 09:17 | <hp> yup
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| 09:18 | <ogra> i sadly have only usb printers
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| 09:18 | so i cant confirm parallel ones work, but usb works exactly like that here
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| 09:18 | (with /dev/usblp0 indeed)
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| 09:19 | <hp> I'm sure usb printers work, however, the company I work for here in the Philippines use mostly parallel dot matrix printers :)
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| 09:19 | <ogra> well
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| 09:19 | add SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm to your default section in the lts.conf
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| 09:20 | <hp> one more thing, I cannot do the configuration via the thin client itself?
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| 09:20 | <ogra> that will give you a shell on tty2 on the runing thin client
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| 09:20 | then check that /dev/lp0 actually exists
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| 09:20 | <hp> will do :)
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| 09:21 | <ogra> if thats the case check the processlist if the jetpipe program is running (thats the program doing the forwarding from port 9100 to /dev/lp<something>)
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| 09:21 | <hp> I will
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| 09:22 | <ogra> you can indeed edit the lts.conf file from a clent if you are logged in ... since you are actually logged in to the server (so you edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf on the server in fact)
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| 09:24 | <hp> I meant I tried to configure the printer via a user session on a thin client, using appsocket..... option, I was wondering if I should've done it directly on the terminal server itself. But then, it's the same thing right?
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| 09:30 | <ogra> right
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| 09:31 | and you should actually do it in a rinning client session, since you will sit next to the printer then :)
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| 09:32 | <hp> I'm just happy I was on the right track earlier, I will re-do it tomorrow. Thanks so much. :)
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| 09:41 | <cliebow> Hi Ron!!
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| 09:44 | <bindo> Hi there, I need some help. I'm trying to migrate my whole company to and LTSP setup based on kubuntu. All up and running except twinkle
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| 09:44 | unfortunately we are totally dependent on VOIP
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| 09:44 | <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, how you feeling today?
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| 09:44 | <jammcq> scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:44 | <sbalneav> Hey jammcq
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| 09:45 | <bindo> I think the best thing would be to have the voip softphone run directly on the client but Localapps documentation looks quite old
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| 09:45 | <sbalneav> How's it going? I replaced my cablemodem yesterday, so that should improve drevil.
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| 09:45 | <bindo> any help for LOCALAPPS on LTSP 5
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| 09:45 | <sbalneav> bindo: localapps is being actively developed right now, but isn't ready for prime time just yet.
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| 09:46 | <bindo> I am willing to mess a little bit or do you think it really isn't reasonable ?
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| 09:47 | <sbalneav> I've done some work on it, but I think wtogami's probably messed with it more at this point than I have. I'd say "not yet", but you might want to see if you can grab the latest source and bodge something together.
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| 09:48 | There's 1) no docs. and 2) it's not finished yet.
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| 09:48 | <bindo> ok maybe a little too risky for a production environment :)
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| 09:49 | <sbalneav> I'd say so yeah :)
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| 09:58 | Off to a meeting
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| 10:31 | <ogra> sbalneav, fine, thanks
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| 10:40 | <dberkholz> johnny: wolf was looking for catalyst/genkernel feature suggestions on the gentoo-catalyst list a few weeks ago. if you joined it, you could suggest some more
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| 10:41 | johnny: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-catalyst/msg_0669a9c02fccd976d61d8306766e52ec.xml
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| 13:10 | <spective> hrm
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| 13:12 | <Q-FUNK> hm
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| 13:12 | <spective> It's almost as if my client build is mocking me.
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| 13:12 | I'm trying to get local apps working again...
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| 13:12 | There's some issue with ssh...
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| 13:12 | I can't directly ssh into a client, since it can't connect to port 22 ...
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| 13:13 | Which leads me to believe that the ssh daemon is not running...
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| 13:13 | However, it is installed...
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| 13:13 | But I can't check if its actually running...
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| 13:13 | because I can't get a shell...
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| 13:13 | I have SCREEN_02=shell in /etc/lts.conf
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| 13:14 | But when I ctrl-alt-F2, it's blank.
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| 13:14 | On tty1 there's a login prompt. Which won't let me log on.
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| 13:15 | So I don't know what to do atm.
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| 13:15 | <cliebow> spective:have you enabled root in the chroot?
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| 13:15 | <ogra> /etc/lts.conf ??
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| 13:16 | <spective> cliebow, erm, I believe so... It has a password...
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| 13:16 | ogra: is there somewhere else?
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| 13:17 | <ogra> depends how old your ltsp is :) we use lts.conf from the tftp dir since a year or so
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| 13:17 | <spective> This was an upgraded ltsp install from about 1.5 years ago. I assumed it still used /etc/lts.conf
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| 13:18 | <cliebow> spective:you are using nbd to mount an image? or nfs?
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| 13:18 | <spective> to be precise /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf
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| 13:18 | The client "environment" is nfs mounted from /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 13:19 | I think...
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| 13:19 | <cliebow> ubuntu??must be quite old then..
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| 13:19 | <spective> It was em... feisty I think.
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| 13:19 | <cliebow> you can look in /etc/inetd.conf or summat to see if nbd is enabld..
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| 13:19 | <spective> I've just ripped it up to hardy, and well, it's been a bit spotty.
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| 13:19 | <vagrantc> if it was feisty, that was before the nbdroot stuff
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| 13:20 | <spective> meh.
| |
| 13:20 | <vagrantc> you upgraded the chroot itself, or re-created it?
| |
| 13:20 | <spective> Recreated the chroot (heh, after trying to upgrade it.)
| |
| 13:21 | <ogra> right, then use /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
| |
| 13:21 | <vagrantc> then it should be using nbd
| |
| 13:21 | and lts.conf in tftp
| |
| 13:23 | <spective> Just looked in /etc/inetd.conf...
| |
| 13:23 | 9572 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdswapd
| |
| 13:23 | 2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
| |
| 13:23 | <ogra> yeah, thats fine
| |
| 13:24 | <spective> Is there some hardlinking going on between the directories /opt/ltsp and /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp?
| |
| 13:24 | <ogra> just make sure to run ltsp-update-image if you install stuff in the chroot and use the lts.conf from the tftp dir
| |
| 13:24 | no
| |
| 13:24 | <spective> ltsp-update-image copies /opt/ltsp stuff into /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp??
| |
| 13:25 | <ogra> no
| |
| 13:25 | thats ltsp-update-kernels
| |
| 13:25 | (which was already in feisty and before)
| |
| 13:25 | ltsp-update-image just rolls a new image fro the chroot
| |
| 13:25 | <spective> ok. Let me get this straight. heh. If I update /opt/ltsp/i386 ... I need to run ltsp-update-image? And the lts.conf that I use needs to be stored in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386?
| |
| 13:26 | <cliebow> yes
| |
| 13:26 | <spective> ooohkay. brb.
| |
| 13:27 | <cliebow> spective..if you use wireshark you can see lts.conf being requested and d/l ed via tftp
| |
| 13:27 | <spective> I imagine so. I'll take your word for it.
| |
| 13:28 | Does a copy of lts.conf need to remain in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc ?
| |
| 13:28 | <cliebow> nope..
| |
| 13:28 | * cliebow cliebow duscks | |
| 13:29 | * vagrantc ponders if it wouldn't be simpler for ltsp-update-kernels to copy /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf along with the kernels, so that people can just maintain it in the historical place... | |
| 13:29 | <cliebow> err ducs
| |
| 13:29 | err ducks
| |
| 13:29 | <spective> quack.
| |
| 13:29 | <ogra> vagrantc, ??
| |
| 13:29 | vagrantc, that wouldnt work
| |
| 13:29 | <spective> warum?
| |
| 13:29 | <vagrantc> ogra: it wouldn't work any worse than it works for the kernels...
| |
| 13:30 | <ogra> the kernels are not inside the image
| |
| 13:30 | <vagrantc> ogra: would have to run ltsp-update-kernels after editing it, of course.
| |
| 13:30 | * vagrantc never liked moving lts.conf's location | |
| 13:30 | <ogra> the prob here is that you get two out of sync files if you roll an image
| |
| 13:30 | * ogra would love to make /etc/lts.conf die die die :) | |
| 13:31 | <spective> Ok. So lts.conf is now in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 ... and I've run ltsp-update-image ... now lets see what happens.
| |
| 13:31 | <vagrantc> it's impossible to kill it. reasonably simple to make it go away by default, but impossible to say that there will never be a situation in which you don't need to override the defaults.
| |
| 13:32 | well, easily said :)
| |
| 13:32 | but reality comes harder than words
| |
| 13:32 | <spective> vagrantc, is english your first language?
| |
| 13:32 | <ogra> well, but it doesnt necessarily need to reside in $CHROOT/etc/
| |
| 13:33 | * vagrantc wonders why the ltsp-developer list archives haven't archived any posts since 2008-08-16 | |
| 13:33 | <vagrantc> spective: indeed
| |
| 13:34 | ogra: i guess so, but i don't see any real reason to need to change it ...
| |
| 13:34 | <spective> *sigh*... it's now completely non-functional.
| |
| 13:34 | <ogra> might be your lts.conf ... tired without any ?
| |
| 13:34 | <spective> just a moment...
| |
| 13:35 | just disabled lts.conf....
| |
| 13:35 | rebooting.
| |
| 13:37 | fie_wr0k has quit IRC | |
| 13:37 | GodFather has quit IRC | |
| 13:37 | <spective> well, that seems to be the problem.
| |
| 13:37 | meh.
| |
| 13:38 | simplifying lts.conf to see if it'll boot...
| |
| 13:38 | <ogra> !pastebot
| |
| 13:38 | <ltspbot> ogra: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
| |
| 13:38 | <ogra> paste it :)
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| 13:39 | fie_wr0k has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:40 | <warren> vagrantc: I dislike the idea of moving ldminfod
| |
| 13:40 | <spective> ahh. success.
| |
| 13:40 | <vagrantc> warren: why?
| |
| 13:40 | <spective> at least so far. I now have a shell.
| |
| 13:40 | <warren> vagrantc: for one, it doesn't hurt ltsp-server. Another reason is I hate subpackages that have only a single file.
| |
| 13:41 | <vagrantc> warren: well, i hate having to manually copy ldminfod over to a server that has no reason to install ltsp-server other than to have ldminfod installed on it.
| |
| 13:42 | warren: and then manually installing the dependencies to get a workingm ldm server.
| |
| 13:42 | <spective> Amusing... my dansguardian installation blocks access to the LTSP documentation.
| |
| 13:42 | <vagrantc> it must realize how out of date much of it is
| |
| 13:43 | <warren> vagrantc: hmm
| |
| 13:43 | vagrantc: ok fine.
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> warren: and if we implement some things as plugins, ldm-server might include two, or ever three files :)
| |
| 13:45 | warren: any thoughts on the ldm handling of logouts ?
| |
| 13:45 | <warren> vagrantc: the conditional behavior, giving things through ldminfod... that part sounds overengineered
| |
| 13:45 | vagrantc: oh, and my laptop was running openssh-5.1 as the server and I DID have the logout problem
| |
| 13:45 | <vagrantc> warren: well, i can't think of any easier way to handle it...
| |
| 13:46 | warren: hmmm... well, on my test install, i used openssh 5.1, and it worked fine, downgraded *only* openssh-server to 4.7, and it stopped working ... upgraded back to 5.1, and it worked ...
| |
| 13:47 | <warren> vagrantc: are you sure no options changed along with that upgrade?
| |
| 13:47 | <spective> hrm. openssh-server complains that port 22 is already in use.
| |
| 13:47 | <vagrantc> warren: i think there may have been additional issues with the original "ssh -O exit" patch.
| |
| 13:47 | warren: none that didn't break again when downgrading.
| |
| 13:47 | <warren> vagrantc: all I know is 5.1 server here, I was having the same problem as you with logout
| |
| 13:48 | vagrantc: and the conditional behavior thing is a lot of extra complication...
| |
| 13:48 | <vagrantc> warren: hopefully it's just an issue with the original patch
| |
| 13:48 | warren: agreed on the conditional behavior... but the alternative is to drop support for any servver running an older sshd.
| |
| 13:49 | well, not necessarily drop support entirely ... they just won't be able to log out :)
| |
| 13:50 | warren: well, thanks for your thoughts ... we'll eventually come up with something workable, i'm sure.
| |
| 13:51 | * ogra doesnt care where ldminfod is as long as it doesnt become a hard requirement | |
| 13:51 | <vagrantc> ogra: good :)
| |
| 13:51 | <warren> vagrantc: at what point do the ldm logout scripts run?
| |
| 13:51 | <spective> So bizarre. sshd is unable to bind to port 22, because the port is already in use. netstat -nlp shows nothing on port 22.
| |
| 13:51 | <vagrantc> warren: after the "ssh -Y Xsession ..."
| |
| 13:51 | <warren> spective: try lsof -i
| |
| 13:51 | <vagrantc> warren: after it stops, that is
| |
| 13:51 | * ogra would run them while the tunnel is still there | |
| 13:52 | <cliebow> spective:see tat ssh tunnel reference by ogra??
| |
| 13:52 | <ogra> cliebow, thats the cinet side
| |
| 13:52 | <cliebow> heh
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> ogra: well, the way we currently do that (with kill -1 $PPID) there's no way to run them while the tunnel is still there.
| |
| 13:52 | <ogra> he wants tu run a server on the TC
| |
| 13:53 | vagrantc, right
| |
| 13:53 | that needs reworking before
| |
| 13:53 | <cliebow> k
| |
| 13:53 | <ogra> though we have two ssh's
| |
| 13:53 | * cliebow cliebow hides under rock again.. | |
| 13:53 | <spective> lsof -i shows nothing.
| |
| 13:53 | <warren> vagrantc: i'm looking at the code
| |
| 13:54 | <ogra> and as we run the scripts on session startup it should be possible to do the ame on shutdown
| |
| 13:54 | <vagrantc> right. but there's no consistant way with older openssh-server that i can find to log out without the kill ...
| |
| 13:54 | <spective> cliebow, I see the reference... don't know what it implies.
| |
| 13:54 | <ogra> we can put the kill into a K script ;)
| |
| 13:54 | into K99 :)
| |
| 13:54 | <vagrantc> the K scripts don't ever run unless the kill is in the same ssh call as Xsession
| |
| 13:55 | <ogra> you just need to store $PPID somewhere
| |
| 13:55 | <vagrantc> ogra: but it hangs, so it never gets run.
| |
| 13:55 | <spective> How can port 22 be in use if it doesn't show up in netstat or lsof??
| |
| 13:56 | <cliebow> spective:i am so far behind now.....cant help any moe..
| |
| 13:56 | <vagrantc> ogra: the "ssh ... Xsession ... ; kill -1 $PPID" ... if you remove "kill -1 $PPID" ... it just sits there indefinitely once the user has logged out.
| |
| 13:56 | <ogra> well, we can kill the sessin clinet side ... then have a kill-1 4PPID as last script, no ?
| |
| 13:56 | *$PPID
| |
| 13:57 | <vagrantc> ogra: so storing the PPID bit doesn't really gain us anything... unless we somehow background the ssh process...
| |
| 13:57 | <spective> cliebow, hehe, s'ok.
| |
| 13:57 | * ogra tries to type one handed during dinner | |
| 13:57 | <vagrantc> ogra: when do you run the kill ?
| |
| 13:58 | ogra: currently, it relies on the "ssh ... Xsession ..." command to complete, but it doesn't ever return without the "kill -1 $PPID" part.
| |
| 13:58 | <ogra> i kill the session fron the TC side ? and run the kill as last K script (safety net)
| |
| 13:58 | hmm
| |
| 13:58 | <vagrantc> ogra: when do you decide to run the kill ?
| |
| 13:58 | <ogra> yeah, right
| |
| 13:58 | <vagrantc> the K scripts don't run until the "ssh ... Xsession ..." finishes.
| |
| 13:59 | and that's the part that hangs.
| |
| 13:59 | <ogra> hmm
| |
| 13:59 | <vagrantc> it's a really obnoxious bug.
| |
| 14:00 | if there was some way we could pass the ssh escape chars ... ~& would basically handle what we want:
| |
| 14:00 | ~& Background ssh at logout when waiting for forwarded connection / X11 sessions to terminate.
| |
| 14:00 | <spective> At this juncture, I'm going to change sshd's config to run on port 222.
| |
| 14:00 | <vagrantc> i think it's that "waiting for X11 sessions to terminate." bit
| |
| 14:01 | <warren> vagrantc: ldm-server would contain what files?
| |
| 14:01 | beyond just ldminfod
| |
| 14:01 | <vagrantc> warren: ldminfod plugins
| |
| 14:01 | not yet developed, but my proposal was to use ldminfod plugins to detect teh openssh-server version
| |
| 14:01 | since it's probably distro-specific
| |
| 14:05 | <spective> What was the rationale behind switching to nbd instead of nfs? other than nfs's historic locking weirdnesses and complexity?
| |
| 14:05 | <ogra> cant we get that during connect anyway ?
| |
| 14:05 | without any ldminfo involvement ?
| |
| 14:05 | * spective hopes that his local apps will work when this is done... | |
| 14:05 | <vagrantc> ogra: i'm open to ideas.
| |
| 14:05 | <ogra> spective, speed and bandwith usage
| |
| 14:05 | <spective> ogra, 'k.
| |
| 14:05 | <vagrantc> ogra: but i haven't heard any yet.
| |
| 14:06 | well, any that don't have issues.
| |
| 14:06 | <ogra> vagrantc, i *think* there was a way to telnet to port 22 ... similar to the EHLO mailserver command ... i'd have to ask cjwatson
| |
| 14:06 | <vagrantc> the simplest i've heard, is to basically do: ssh $server ssh -V
| |
| 14:06 | <spective> ... how much bandwidth does the filesystem use after the client's connected to the X server??
| |
| 14:06 | <ogra> (wh is off for the day ... which should be since some hours as well ... my doctor will shout at me )
| |
| 14:06 | <vagrantc> and *assume* that the ssh client and ssh-server are the same.
| |
| 14:07 | ogra: take care!
| |
| 14:07 | <ogra> well, i'm not really eager :P
| |
| 14:08 | (not to take care ... but to close the laptop lid)
| |
| 14:08 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 14:08 | <spective> ?! I can't bind to port 222 on 0.0.0.0, the address is in use?
| |
| 14:08 | I'm lost. There's _nothing_ using port 222...
| |
| 14:08 | <vagrantc> spective: that must be me. i open backdoors wherever i go on 222.
| |
| 14:09 | <spective> vagrantc, heh. oh good.
| |
| 14:09 | So what in the world is going on?
| |
| 14:09 | Is my network card read-only now?
| |
| 14:09 | (joke.)
| |
| 14:09 | <ogra> oh, didnt we tell you ? :P
| |
| 14:10 | thats anew feature
| |
| 14:10 | <spective> yay.
| |
| 14:10 | seriously. I have no idea how this possible.
| |
| 14:10 | <ogra> nah, but it likely didnt generate any ssh keys during install
| |
| 14:10 | * spective thought he had the gist of linux. *sigh* | |
| 14:11 | <ogra> so sshd wont start
| |
| 14:11 | <spective> I've generated the keys.
| |
| 14:11 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 14:11 | <sbalneav> Didn't we figure on doing the ssh -O shutdown command to close after the session ended?
| |
| 14:11 | <ogra> sbalneav, tat broke with some ancient windowmanagers
| |
| 14:11 | <sbalneav> spective: Are you running the command as root or a user?
| |
| 14:11 | <spective> And it starts... and binds to the ipv6 0::0 address on port 22.
| |
| 14:11 | <ogra> so vagrantc wasnt happy with it
| |
| 14:11 | <spective> sbalneav, root!
| |
| 14:12 | <sbalneav> 0.0.0.0?
| |
| 14:12 | or 127.0.0.1?
| |
| 14:12 | <spective> 0.0.0.0
| |
| 14:12 | no point in listening on 127.
| |
| 14:12 | well, not much anyways.
| |
| 14:13 | <sbalneav> 0.0.0.0 isn't a valid ip address
| |
| 14:13 | <spective> sbalneav, 0.0.0.0 means bind to all interfaces.
| |
| 14:13 | So it's listening on eth0, eth1, lo, etc.
| |
| 14:13 | <sbalneav> errr, not as far as I know.
| |
| 14:14 | You're running a daemon?
| |
| 14:14 | <spective> yes.
| |
| 14:15 | Do a netstat -nlp and look under local address.
| |
| 14:15 | netstat -lp shows it as *:22
| |
| 14:15 | or whatever port.
| |
| 14:16 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: not just broke on oddball window managers(icewm, xfce), but also with versions of openssh-server older than 5.1
| |
| 14:16 | sbalneav: i just posted a message to ltsp-developer about it
| |
| 14:16 | <warren> vagrantc: openssh-server-5.1 here didn't prevent the problem
| |
| 14:16 | it might be something else
| |
| 14:16 | <vagrantc> and apparently it still is an issue with warren for something else.
| |
| 14:16 | <warren> vagrantc: did ssh version on the client side matter?
| |
| 14:16 | <vagrantc> warren: nope.
| |
| 14:17 | warren: i'm wondering if we're just experiencing a *different* problem that has similar symptoms ...
| |
| 14:17 | <ogra> selinux ?
| |
| 14:17 | <warren> no selinux on the clients
| |
| 14:17 | doesn't work with nfs root
| |
| 14:17 | <vagrantc> warren: and again, i think you tried with an older patch.
| |
| 14:17 | <ogra> but on the server
| |
| 14:17 | <warren> ogra: why are you so quick to blame selinux for everything?
| |
| 14:18 | vagrantc: got a new patch? i'll test whatever now
| |
| 14:18 | <ogra> i dont like it ? its an easy candidate to blame ? no idea :)
| |
| 14:18 | <vagrantc> warren: i've been working with ldm 2.0.6 ... but shouldn't be hard to forward-port it.
| |
| 14:19 | <warren> let me test it without conditional stuff
| |
| 14:19 | <vagrantc> yeah.
| |
| 14:19 | i haven't actually worked on the conditionals yet anyways.
| |
| 14:22 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
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| 14:25 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "new untested ssh -O exit" (30 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/46
| |
| 14:25 | <vagrantc> warren: ^^
| |
| 14:25 | <spective_> Ugh. client crashed.
| |
| 14:25 | So did I miss any deep wisdom on why I can't bind to IPv4 ports w/ sshd?
| |
| 14:28 | <vagrantc> only shallow wisdom that's not likely to be helpful
| |
| 14:28 | <spective_> Is there a direction I should look? /proc kernel settings? kernel configs?
| |
| 14:29 | <ogra> did you try to bind to the actual IP ?
| |
| 14:29 | just for laughs ?
| |
| 14:29 | <spective_> ogra, no. I can try that.
| |
| 14:29 | brb.
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| 14:34 | <spective_> just for laughs, it works.
| |
| 14:34 | * ogra thought so | |
| 14:34 | GodFather has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:34 | <spective_> WHY???
| |
| 14:34 | excuse my shouting.
| |
| 14:35 | <warren> are you using suse?
| |
| 14:35 | <ogra> i dont think we set up massivley much more routing on clients than needed to connect to the server
| |
| 14:35 | <spective_> ubuntu
| |
| 14:35 | fie_wr0k has quit IRC | |
| 14:35 | <spective_> ogra: elaborate?
| |
| 14:35 | <ogra> which is fine with the planned localapps implementation
| |
| 14:35 | <warren> OK good, then I'm not annoyed.
| |
| 14:35 | <ogra> warren, lets wait what jcastro achieves :) he is great at such things
| |
| 14:36 | <spective_> however... I think I've borked by ssh key setup now.
| |
| 14:36 | <ogra> just ignore the annoance for now
| |
| 14:36 | spective_, there is no defaulr route or gateway ... and we dont actually need it in our localdev implementation since we dont open extra ports for it
| |
| 14:36 | makghosh has quit IRC | |
| 14:36 | <warren> why ssh server on a client?
| |
| 14:37 | <ogra> its the old way of doing localapps
| |
| 14:37 | <spective_> warren: local apps setup
| |
| 14:37 | <ogra> massively painful
| |
| 14:37 | but works as well indeed
| |
| 14:37 | just has a lot maintenance overhead
| |
| 14:38 | <warren> why can't you use the modern localapps?
| |
| 14:38 | <ogra> they are not in hardy
| |
| 14:38 | <spective_> yup.
| |
| 14:38 | <ogra> (and no, i dont plan to backport)
| |
| 14:38 | <spective_> And implementing them by hand looks daunting...
| |
| 14:40 | spective_ is now known as spective | |
| 14:47 | <vagrantc> it seemed fairly simple to manually backport the current localapps implementation
| |
| 14:47 | <warren> vagrantc: except for the sshd part...
| |
| 14:47 | <vagrantc> it's pretty much just a single plugin to ldm
| |
| 14:48 | warren: what part do you mean?
| |
| 14:48 | <warren> vagrantc: openssh-5.1
| |
| 14:49 | <vagrantc> well, doing whatever it is they're doing now, they could still backport the xatoms and group handling stuff... home directory mounting might be trickier if they actually need the cleaner sshfs
| |
| 14:49 | but no matter what, they need to mount home directories, so that doesn't really matter.
| |
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| 14:54 | <warren> ooh
| |
| 14:54 | found the cause of my nbd0 being confused
| |
| 14:54 | nbd0 is mounted root
| |
| 14:54 | but ltsp-init-common has:
| |
| 14:54 | nbd-client $SWAP_SERVER $NBD_PORT /dev/nbd0 && \
| |
| 14:54 | swap_devices="$swap_devices /dev/nbd0"
| |
| 14:54 | is nobody else using ltsp-init-common or something?
| |
| 14:55 | * ogra uses the same initscript he always used ... from his /debian dir in the package | |
| 14:55 | <ogra> i think vagrantc uses the upstream initscript
| |
| 14:55 | thoguh they shouldnt differ in that area
| |
| 14:56 | <vagrantc> hmmm...
| |
| 14:56 | i don't think i've tested the NBD swap stuff in ages.
| |
| 14:56 | definitely not with both nbd root and nbd swap ...
| |
| 14:56 | <ogra> th ehardcoded nbd0 is worrying
| |
| 14:56 | <warren> vagrantc: I recently found that it was broken in fedora because somebody changed the paths to /bin/nbd-*
| |
| 14:57 | should I add a loop that tries nbd-client -c /dev/nbdX
| |
| 14:57 | ?
| |
| 14:57 | <ogra> to connect ? ... hmm
| |
| 14:57 | <warren> vagrantc: oh, so logging out of KDE after adding your ldm patch... gets stuck
| |
| 14:57 | <vagrantc> nbd-client -c would require a versioned dependency on a version that implements -c
| |
| 14:57 | <ogra> well, all recent ones have it
| |
| 14:57 | you must have a very old nbd to not have -c
| |
| 14:58 | <warren> vagrantc: well, if you upgrade to ltsp-latest upstream you better have recent versions of stuff
| |
| 14:58 | <vagrantc> yes, let's make sure nothing works for longer than 6 months.
| |
| 14:58 | <ogra> yeah, that also applies to you being cautious about openssh-server 5.x
| |
| 14:58 | we never really supported different versions of client and server
| |
| 14:59 | <vagrantc> you never supported it
| |
| 14:59 | it's worked for me for ages.
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra> you support etch (roiginal etch) chroots with leanny servers and the other way round ?
| |
| 14:59 | <vagrantc> warren: debugging the ldm patch ... what processes are still running as that user on the server?
| |
| 15:00 | * ogra bets on dbus | |
| 15:00 | <warren> hmm, I killed a few and still stuck
| |
| 15:00 | <vagrantc> ogra: i've done it on many occasions, and rarely have problems. some features don't work on etch (nbdroot) ... but in general, ther'es not really many issues.
| |
| 15:00 | for me, the process that always gets stuck seems to be dbus-launch
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| 15:01 | <warren> I killed everything except these, and it is still stuck
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| 15:01 | test 4522 4518 0 15:45 ? 00:00:00 sshd: test@pts/5
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| 15:01 | test 4523 4522 0 15:45 pts/5 00:00:00 bash -c echo LTSPROCKS; /bin/sh -
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| 15:01 | test 4525 4523 0 15:45 pts/5 00:00:00 /bin/sh -
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> that's very different symptoms from me
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| 15:02 | <ogra> dbus-launch properly run by gnome session for me ... so it dies with gnome ... kde and other WMs are not handling it from the session binary
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| 15:02 | <ogra> as soon as dbus-launch is handled by a wrapper script around the session manager it gets wonky
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| 15:03 | (thats why gnome changed it to be spawned by gnome-session)
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| 15:04 | <warren> argh, I need a nap, huge headache
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> ogra: are you saying: "dbus-launch --exit-with-session " is borked?
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| 15:04 | <warren> i'm going to add a nbd-client -c loop to ltsp-init-common later today
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| 15:04 | <ogra> no. tats what gnome-session calls as well
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| 15:05 | <warren> vagrantc: go ahead and move ldminfod, i'll adjust later today
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| 15:05 | <ogra> but spawning it from a binary seems to make a difference
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| 15:05 | <warren> maybe I"ll have time to implement the LDM_SESSION plan
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| 15:05 | nap
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| 15:07 | <vagrantc> warren: i'll give a little more time for others to comment before moving it
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| 15:11 | <warren> ok
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| 15:11 | hurting too much for nap
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| 15:13 | at least I figured out why nbd was failing
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| 16:15 | <warren> is /usr/bin/seq installed in your chroot?
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| 16:16 | <vagrantc> it's part of coreutils on debian, which is required.
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| 16:16 | so yes
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| 16:16 | i'm guessing ubuntu has it too.
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| 16:19 | <warren> # Detect first unused nbd device, skip nbd0
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| 16:19 | for num in `seq 1 15`; do
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| 16:19 | nbd-client -c /dev/nbd${num} > /dev/null
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| 16:19 | [ $? -eq 0 ] && break
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| 16:19 | done
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| 16:19 | nbd-client $SWAP_SERVER $NBD_PORT /dev/nbd${num} && \
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| 16:19 | sane?
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| 16:19 | skipping nbd0 since it is likely to be used
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc> i swear i implemented that before.
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| 16:24 | well, not exactly that ... but not hard-coding /dev/nbd
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| 16:25 | * vagrantc wonders if it got reverted somewhere along the way | |
| 16:25 | <warren> perhaps I'm the only one using this function
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| 16:29 | <vagrantc> warren: no, we're using it in debian ...
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| 16:29 | <vagrantc> it was probably in one of my gazillion branches of unmerged features...
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| 16:29 | unmerged and unreleased, that is
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| 16:30 | <warren> I have zero unmerged branches
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| 16:31 | if I work on something that goes unmerged it will be forgotten
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> well, that's what happens to me too
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| 16:32 | sometimes it's not merged for a reason, though.
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| 16:33 | <johnny> hmm.. you don't have to use seq
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> you could just hard-code 0 1 2 3 4 ... 15
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| 16:33 | <warren> right, ok
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> but seq sure is simple
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| 16:35 | already found issues with using "env" for the tcsh stuff.
| |
| 16:35 | localdev breaks with tcsh...
| |
| 16:35 | well, tcsh and LDM_DIRECTX
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| 16:36 | i guess i should still try the /bin/sh -c 'blah blah blah' approach ...
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| 16:36 | but if the env approach seemed non-evil, i figured i might try and get it into the next debian release ... *sigh*
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| 16:36 | <johnny> uggh.. burn them
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| 16:37 | <vagrantc> if i can find a relatively simple way to fix it, i don't want to force people to use a particular shell. i'm just not that way.
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| 16:38 | <warren> vagrantc: right, tcsh is a fucking different language. env is not going to fix that.
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| 16:38 | <vagrantc> heh.
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| 16:38 | warren: the issue was env only applied to the first command.
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| 16:39 | i.e. our chaing of foo ; bar ; baz ... bar and baz didn't get it
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| 16:39 | or soemthing like that.
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| 16:39 | or maybe not ...
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| 16:40 | ah, i think the issue was we'd have to put env in the S10-delayed-mounter too ...
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| 16:40 | <warren> My essay is written in English. I'm going to s/the/le/ and make it work in French.
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| 16:40 | It is a DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.
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| 16:40 | <vagrantc> yes, it's a pain to support tcsh.
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| 16:41 | <warren> Make it use /bin/sh as a script interpreter, don't try to change the syntax itself.
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| 16:41 | /bin/sh as interpreter is the legitimate fix
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| 16:41 | <vagrantc> we'd have to hard-code that in all of our calls to ssh ...
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| 16:41 | i'm starting to lean towards not supporting non-bourne compatible shells at all.
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| 16:42 | <johnny> vagrantc, i have a fix for you..
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| 16:42 | <warren> +1
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| 16:42 | <vagrantc> handling the environment differently is just too danged complicated, and we make extensive use of that.
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| 16:42 | <johnny> tell them the upstream maintainers of the project are forcing you to not support tcsh
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| 16:42 | <warren> it isn't just the environment that is a problem
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| 16:42 | <johnny> and ther'es nothing you can do about it
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| 16:42 | <warren> it is a DIFFERNT LANGUAGE
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| 16:43 | <vagrantc> warren: well, so far, the environment is the only problem i've encountered.
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| 16:43 | <warren> johnny: appeal to authority? =
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| 16:43 | =)
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| 16:43 | <johnny> warren, yes :)
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| 16:43 | you know.. get the flames off his back
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| 16:43 | <vagrantc> i don't need to appeal to authority. i can handle it myself.
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| 16:43 | <warren> csh needs a different syntax to set variables
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| 16:43 | <vagrantc> but i only have so much time.
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| 16:43 | <warren> conditionals use endif instead of fi
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| 16:44 | <johnny> fi is kinda silly tho
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| 16:44 | <warren> if ($TERM) exit
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| 16:44 | this is a different language!
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| 16:44 | * vagrantc never debated that it wasn't a different language. | |
| 16:44 | <vagrantc> but if there were simple patches to bridge the divide, i'd be willing to try them. there just aren't.
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| 17:13 | <btil1> anyone on?
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| 17:14 | <Q-FUNK> nope
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| 17:14 | <btil1> that sucks
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| 17:15 | i shouldn't be here either, but i have no life at all
| |
| 17:17 | * Lns 's life currently consists of trying to teach linux filesystem basics to lab techs that don't want to learn new things. | |
| 17:17 | * vagrantc marked the ldm/tcsh bug as wontfix | |
| 17:18 | <btil1> don't know what's worse, mine or Lns 's
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| 17:18 | <Lns> heh
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| 17:19 | <btil1> teaching unwilling pupils is not fun, but neither is writing documentation
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| 17:19 | <Lns> "But in Windows it's so easy to put permissions on files and folders!" "...Oh, and why can't you have group ownership of a file that doesn't exist?" *bangs head on wall*
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| 17:20 | * Lns prefers documentation as you can hand it to people and walk away | |
| 17:20 | <btil1> don't know what i'd do if i was stuck developing on windows
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| 17:20 | working without chmod/chown -R or grep
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| 17:20 | or screen?
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| 17:20 | true, but the writing of it is mind-numbing
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| 17:21 | <Lns> I actually kind of enjoy it
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| 17:21 | <btil1> sometimes. seems i only enjoy it when i don't have to do it.
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| 17:21 | right now it's been forced upon me, so it sucks
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| 17:21 | i liked doing the ltsp docbook stuff, probably because i chose to.
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| 17:24 | <warren> vagrantc: ogra: I just found a security hole in <unspecified part of your LTSP>
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| 17:24 | I haven't been using that part yet.
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| 17:54 | <vagrantc> warren: hmmmm?
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| 18:28 | <rjune> Lns: You must work at a school
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| 18:39 | <Lns> rjune: yes.
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| 18:39 | well..i work FOR a school.
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| 18:39 | they are my client.
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| 18:40 | I am hopeful that they will change their attitudes, and I think they will - it's just frustrating when you're trying to get people excited about something they hate by default.
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| 18:40 | just because it's different than what they know.
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| 18:41 | <warren> vagrantc: false alarm
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| 18:52 | <gbolte> lns thats kinda an issue with us here people dont like new things but have eventually settled down and accepted the fact they are not getting their way
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| 18:53 | <Lns> gbolte: that's good news to hear - i think it's just a matter of pushing it through their short-term memory. If they don't like it at first they'll fight it but if they see it's still there after a while they'll start to adapt
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| 18:54 | <gbolte> yup
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| 21:19 | <vagrantc> hmmmm... my gnome fails to logout issue seems to be http://bugs.debian.org/486007
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| 21:33 | <petre> warren, do you know the url for reporting bugs for Fedora 10?
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| 21:34 | I can find lots of webpages about bur reporting, just can find the bloody page to actually log the bugs
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| 21:34 | <warren> petre: bugzilla.redhat.com
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| 21:34 | <petre> or search for them
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| 21:34 | <warren> petre: bugzilla calls fedora 10 "devel" until it is released, then it becomes 10
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| 21:34 | <petre> hmm, should my login from the k12ltsp page work there?
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| 21:34 | k12linux , i mean
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| 21:35 | <warren> what do you mean?
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| 21:35 | petre: i'm using bugzilla for k12linux bug tracking
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| 21:35 | petre: not trac
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| 21:40 | <petre> I've got a fedora login, but apparently that doesn't work at bugzilla.redhat.com
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| 21:40 | <warren> bugzilla.redhat.com is a different account system
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| 21:42 | <etyack> hi warren
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| 21:42 | <petre> ok, I created a new account on bugzilla.redhat.com, still waiting for the email
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| 21:42 | <warren> hi
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| 21:43 | <petre> BTW, nautilus on F10 does the same thing if launched from a terminal by root: mounts all the partitions on the local hard disk
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| 21:44 | tried some switches with it, too, but to no avail
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| 21:44 | <warren> might need to ask upstream for a switch that wont do that
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| 21:44 | <petre> gnome project?
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| 21:44 | <warren> yes
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| 21:45 | <etyack> did the core dump of the ldm error UsrP.. emailed shed any light about what caused it?
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| 21:45 | <petre> so, you don't think it's actually a bug?
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| 21:45 | <warren> etyack: I posted the details of the traceback to the list
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| 21:45 | etyack: It really only crashes on that one client and not others? that's curious
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| 21:45 | <etyack> they have 12 of the same hardware
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| 21:46 | which list did you post it to?
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| 21:47 | <warren> etyack: ltsp-devel
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| 22:01 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 22:01 | <etyack> hey sbalneav
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| 22:03 | <warren> etyack: sbalneav is best to ask about that ldm segfault
| |
| 22:03 | etyack: he did the majority of the C code
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| 22:03 | <etyack> sbalneav: did you happen to look at the segfault warren posted to the devel list?
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| 22:03 | sbalneav: if so, any thoughts or questions?
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| 22:04 | <sbalneav> Briefly. Lemme have a look again.
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| 22:07 | Well, it's dying in a fprintf.
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| 22:07 | in the die routine. :)
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| 22:07 | so it's already dead, for other reasons.
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| 22:08 | <etyack> isn't that special
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| 22:09 | the clients are ~10 yr old 800 Mhz celerons w/128mb ram
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| 22:09 | <sbalneav> hold on, I'll look at the code.
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| 22:09 | do they get logged in at all? Is it intermittent?
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| 22:10 | <etyack> no and no. they always fail with a segfault.
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| 22:10 | they have 12 and all behave in the same way.
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| 22:11 | <sbalneav> Other ones they have work?
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| 22:12 | <etyack> they have numerous different hardware configurations and approx 150 clients. this group are the only ones experiencing problems.
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| 22:12 | <sbalneav> ah.
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| 22:12 | I see the problem.
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| 22:13 | <etyack> do tell
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| 22:13 | <sbalneav> hm.
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| 22:14 | one of these days, I should really write myself some notes. :) This whole bzr thing still has me flummoxed.
| |
| 22:14 | We need to move the fclose and the close to just before the exit(1).
| |
| 22:14 | We close the logfd, but then ldm_wait() tries to write to it.
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| 22:15 | <etyack> why do you think this hardware combo exposed the error?
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| 22:16 | <sbalneav> Incedental. The real problem here is probably that the X server isn't autodetecting that video card, or something. Does X even light up the display, or does it just stay on the blinking cursor?
| |
| 22:16 | Eitherway, the early close is the problem for the segfault.
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| 22:16 | That WONT fix their problem, but it WILL eliminate the segfault.
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| 22:17 | So, what's the easiest way to create a patch here, Warren?
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| 22:17 | <warren> huh
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| 22:17 | <etyack> we are supporting them remotely. this is a old sis 6236 based video card and I would not be surprised if X does not properly detect the card.
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| 22:17 | <warren> i'm doing a few things at once
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| 22:18 | sbalneav: why is it segfaulting only for these users?
| |
| 22:18 | oh I see
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| 22:18 | <sbalneav> Dunno. Maybe the ldm_wait write simply silently fails on other boxes.
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| 22:19 | Not sure.
| |
| 22:19 | <warren> I don't know exactly what you mean
| |
| 22:19 | so I can't fix it
| |
| 22:19 | <sbalneav> Hold on, lemme create a regular patch file. Uno momento.
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| 22:19 | <etyack> possibly tomorrow, but Friday for sure, we will have a chance to look at the xorg log files.
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| 22:20 | <warren> etyack: on ebay I see lots of thin clients for sale for like $5-20 each, but they're all video cards that upstream X no longer supports.
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| 22:21 | pre-GX2 geode's are plentiful
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| 22:21 | <johnny> i wish i had some real thin clients.
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| 22:22 | i also need some monitors..
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| 22:22 | <etyack> warren: i also saw ~50 of our thin clients damaged during shipping on ebay.
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| 22:22 | <warren> etyack: eh?
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| 22:22 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "diff -Naur for ldm.c fix." (19 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/47
| |
| 22:23 | <sbalneav> et, voila.
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| 22:23 | <warren> etyack: you want a F9 i386 build of that?
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| 22:23 | <etyack> warren, we made an insurance claim for damaged thin clients and a salvage company put them on ebay.
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| 22:23 | <warren> etyack: that's very common
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| 22:23 | <etyack> warren: yes. we will test it tomorrow or Friday.
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| 22:24 | <warren> etyack: sometimes you can take advantage of that though. for example a few years ago my dad's crane company was lifting a giant 120ton chiller on top of a building, and the crane toppled over.
| |
| 22:24 | etyack: million+ insurance payout...
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| 22:24 | <etyack> warren: i'm sure it is, but i the pictures used in the auction were taken in our warehouse!
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| 22:25 | warren, by the claims adjuster
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| 22:25 | <warren> etyack: the chiller was put for auction. my dad bought it, fixed it up, and was renting it out ever since at a profit. it would have been impossible to buy a chiller for rental that is profitable otherwise.
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| 22:25 | now my dad wasn't involved in the accident
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| 22:25 | he wasn't at the site
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| 22:26 | <etyack> warren: wow. we could by out thin clients cheaper on ebay than our vendor.
| |
| 22:26 | <warren> etyack: exactly
| |
| 22:26 | etyack: we paid about $15k to buy a chiller that would have been $300k
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| 22:26 | etyack: about $20k in repairs, and it made $40k in the first 2 month rental job.
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| 22:26 | <etyack> warren: nice
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| 22:27 | that's the way to make money
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| 22:27 | <warren> not a normal way
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| 22:27 | you don't drop million dollar cranes....
| |
| 22:27 | <etyack> true
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| 22:27 | <warren> etyack: oh, and it helps that this is in hawaii, where it takes months to get a new chiller
| |
| 22:27 | <etyack> that must have been one hell of a scary moment
| |
| 22:27 | <warren> etyack: so we have a monopoly on emergency chiller rental there
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| 22:28 | etyack: if a building (like a hospital)'s chiller fails, either they rent our emergency chiller or shut down the hospital
| |
| 22:29 | <etyack> warren: there's an advantage to being the "monopoly"
| |
| 22:29 | <warren> yeah...
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| 22:29 | although we went all last year without renting it out
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| 22:29 | <etyack> sbalneav: thanks for the help
| |
| 22:30 | warren: let me know where to access the new ldm version and we will coordinate testing with the school.
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| 22:33 | <sbalneav> etyack: NP. Remember: this will fix the coredump, but not the LDM not working, that's due to X not liking the SiS. I suspect either 1) vesa 2) custom lts.conf/xorg.conf fiddling or 3) 12 cheap ati Rage 128 cards will solve the problem :)
| |
| 22:34 | <warren> etyack: fedora ltsp does not support specifying an X driver in lts.conf
| |
| 22:34 | etyack: yet
| |
| 22:34 | etyack: nobody asked for it yet
| |
| 22:35 | <etyack> sbalneav: understood. purchasing 12 shiny LTSP Term 1220's will fix their problem also. I read some posts about this chipset causing x problems.
| |
| 22:35 | warren: i was just about to ask...
| |
| 22:35 | <warren> it has been lower on my priority list
| |
| 22:35 | i'm really trying to avoid using xorg.conf at all
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| 22:36 | etyack: you can test it specifying a driver in /etc/X11/xorg.conf in the chroot. if you cna get it working with vesa, then I guess I'l hack up the lts.conf thing to make it work.
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| 22:36 | etyack: OTOH i suspect even vesa wont work
| |
| 22:37 | etyack: oh, and get me their xorg log (without any vesa)
| |
| 22:37 | <etyack> warren: i'm not very confident either
| |
| 22:37 | warren: will do.
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| 22:39 | <warren> etyack: http://people.redhat.com/wtogami/temp/ldm-2.0.11-4.20080820.23.fc9.i386.rpm
| |
| 22:39 | <etyack> warren: thanks
| |
| 22:39 | <warren> etyack: seems to work in cursory tests
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| 22:40 | <etyack> warren: we'll test it here first in the morning.
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| 22:41 | <vagrantc> something is very, very strange. the m68k build daemon was the first to pick up my latest upload.
| |
| 22:41 | <warren> m68k is making a comeback
| |
| 22:41 | over alcohol the hackers were talking about m68k fedora
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| 22:42 | <vagrantc> m68k is barely making a come-back with debian ... let alone distros that never supported it ..
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| 22:43 | it was dropped for the last official debian stable release, and never really recovered.
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| 22:43 | <warren> some things are better dropped
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| 22:43 | <etyack> thanks guys
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| 22:44 | time to go home.
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| 22:45 | etyack has left #ltsp | |
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| 22:57 | <warren> heh, I got my EEEPC to work as a LTSP server
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| 22:59 | <johnny> neat
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| 22:59 | <warren> of course it sucks
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| 23:00 | <johnny> hmm.. would be neat to carry around an ltsp server tho
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| 23:00 | something without a screen
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| 23:01 | dberkholz, so what's goin on?
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| 23:06 | <sbalneav> johnny: Laptop with a dead screen? :)
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| 23:06 | <johnny> sbalneav, i meant something designed without one :)
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| 23:06 | hey scott
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| 23:11 | <sbalneav> heh, hey
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| 23:12 | But (devils advocate) EEEPC = $(~300) Laptop with dead screen = Free (from friends, neighbors, work, etc) :)
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| 23:12 | <johnny> sure.. but the eepc has too much stuff.. speakers, screen,keyboard
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| 23:13 | <sbalneav> Plus you get to say: "Look how COOL this LTSP stuff is! I can even make a DEAD LAPTOP worth something!!!"
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| 23:13 | <johnny> guess you could build a custom case for the dead laptop, but it'd still be too big
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| 23:13 | <sbalneav> It'd be a total babe magnet, trust me :)
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| 23:13 | <johnny> well.. it could be..
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| 23:14 | <sbalneav> As an LTSP developer, supermodels throw themselves at my feet constantly.
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| 23:14 | <johnny> if that "babe" is setting up a something where they need to provide a bunch of computers cheaply and in a jiffy
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| 23:14 | and you show up with a magic box that makes it happen
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| 23:14 | you'd be her hero
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| 23:15 | <sbalneav> Exactly.
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| 23:15 | So, now all you need to do is wait around while Anna Kournikova needs to set up a school lab in a hurry, and YOU'D TOTALLY BE SET!!!!111oneone.
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| 23:16 | <johnny> well i doubt it will be her..
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| 23:16 | more like somebody who is actually doing something of value for society even
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| 23:17 | <sbalneav> Are you QUESTIONING the value that SUPERMODELS and CELEBRITIES provide to society?!?! Heaven forfend! :)
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| 23:18 | Think of all the employment that Paris whatsername generates :)
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| 23:18 | <johnny> well. you know me..
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| 23:18 | did i ever show you where i use ltsp?
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| 23:18 | <sbalneav> No, don't think you ever did. Do tell!
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| 23:19 | <johnny> www.redemmas.org
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| 23:19 | <sbalneav> Oh, cool!
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| 23:20 | Looks like one of the places I hang out in Winnipeg, at Mondragon. Hold on, I'll find the urlllllll.
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| 23:20 | http://mondragon.ca/
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| 23:21 | <johnny> http://flickr.com/photos/45891628@N00/351914359/
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| 23:21 | there's a picture of two of em :)
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| 23:21 | yes.. that is us :)
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| 23:21 | lol
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| 23:22 | we aren't exlusively vegan tho
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| 23:22 | sbalneav, while in portland, i went to a place using ltsp
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| 23:22 | red and black cafe
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| 23:22 | thanks to free geek
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| 23:22 | freegeek is really a great project..
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| 23:22 | <sbalneav> Yeah, I was really impressed
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| 23:23 | For an old soldering-iron wrangler such as myself, I was in heaven.
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| 23:23 | <johnny> we should do that again
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| 23:23 | <sbalneav> I'd go back.
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| 23:23 | <johnny> altho.. i would like you to come down to baltimore
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| 23:23 | i have a much bigger room than we had at freegeek
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| 23:24 | it's in a church
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| 23:24 | <sbalneav> I'd be all in favor of spring in Portland and Fall in Maine for the two annual LTSP hackfests.
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| 23:24 | <johnny> check it
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| 23:24 | http://redemmas.org/2640/images/
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| 23:24 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Hey, I got my art home BTW. It's hanging out at my cottage.
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| 23:25 | <johnny> altho.. we won't need that big room.. there's a smaller one next to it
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| 23:25 | <sbalneav> Love the bulding. When was it built? Looks like 1890'
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| 23:25 | s
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| 23:26 | <johnny> 1889 i think?
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| 23:26 | or maybe 1879 .. i forget
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| 23:26 | definitely around that time tho
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| 23:26 | <sbalneav> Yeah, the posts look very pre 1900's
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| 23:26 | <johnny> our group is involved with that space
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| 23:26 | <sbalneav> Cool.
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| 23:27 | <johnny> started as a simple kitchen rental.. as we don't have enough space at red emma's to do the baking we like to do
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| 23:27 | <sbalneav> Hey, I heard something cool, about longterm thinking. Ever heard of "The Long now" project? Anyway...
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| 23:27 | <johnny> and we needed to bake in a food certified kitcen
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| 23:27 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: glad you found somethin to purty up yer cottage :)
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| 23:28 | <sbalneav> I loved portland.
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| 23:28 | <johnny> and then we started renting out that big room so the church could stay open
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| 23:28 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'll work on scrounging up a clicky keyboard for ya
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| 23:28 | <sbalneav> When you find it, save it for next year.
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| 23:28 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: if you give me a whole year, i could probably even wrangle up two or three :)
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| 23:28 | <sbalneav> johnny: How long's RE been open?
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| 23:29 | <johnny> coming up on 4
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| 23:29 | in november
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| 23:29 | <sbalneav> Nice.
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| 23:29 | I'd go back out to freegeek for another hackfest in a heartbeat.
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| 23:29 | * vagrantc tries to sneak a few more patches into lenny | |
| 23:29 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: glad y'all liked it :)
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| 23:29 | <johnny> i've only been a member of the collective since last november.. in fact.. the same day as the birthday :)
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| 23:30 | <sbalneav> sneak that patch I posted earlier in. It's a definite bug
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| 23:30 | <johnny> been in baltimore since last june, not too long
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| 23:30 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: which patch?
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| 23:30 | <sbalneav> http://pastebot.ltsp.org/47
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| 23:31 | <johnny> sbalneav, i'd love to go to portland again, i just hope i'll be able to afford it
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| 23:31 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: still using ldm 2.0.6 in lenny
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| 23:31 | <johnny> and next time.. i'll be able to contribute more effectively, as all my stuff will have made it into gentoo itself
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| 23:31 | <vagrantc> just getting into the bronze age or something
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| 23:32 | sbalneav: you think that patch is relevent for the older version? how ugly of a bug is it?
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| 23:35 | <warren> vagrantc: that only prevents an ldm segfault right before ldm would have stopped anyway
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| 23:35 | vagrantc: because X failed to start
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| 23:35 | vagrantc: I suppose the benefit of that patch is people don't blame ldm for an X failure
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| 23:35 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 23:36 | <warren> I just pushed it up to trunk
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| 23:39 | <vagrantc> warren: do you know how to configure rsyslog for recieving remote logs ?
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| 23:40 | <sbalneav> I do, on Debian/Ubuntu
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| 23:40 | <warren> sorry no
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| 23:40 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: how? :)
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| 23:40 | <warren> I don't have that working in fedora
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| 23:40 | vagrantc: if you figure out how...
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| 23:40 | <vagrantc> i figured out how to send remote syslogs, but i've been switching to sysklogd to test it
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| 23:40 | <sbalneav> edit /etc/default/syslogd
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| 23:41 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: /etc/default/rsyslog ?
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| 23:41 | <sbalneav> chenge the "SYSLOGD="" " stuff to SYSLOGD="-r"
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| 23:41 | no, should be syslogd
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| 23:41 | <warren> [warren@newcaprica ltsp-trunk]$ bzr pull
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| 23:41 | Using saved location: bzr+ssh://wtogami@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/
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| 23:41 | ssh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad.net port 22: Connection refused
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| 23:41 | <sbalneav> Lemme check on a debian box
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| 23:41 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: debian switched to rsyslog
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| 23:41 | sbalneav: in lenny
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| 23:42 | older lenny installs still probably use sysklogd
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| 23:42 | <warren> brb shower
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| 23:42 | <johnny> metalog provided my favorite config out of the box..
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| 23:42 | <sbalneav> ah
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| 23:42 | ok, for lenny, dunno
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| 23:44 | <vagrantc> apparently, i could try to switch to an older compatibility mode ... but i haven't managed to get it to work
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| 23:50 | <warren> /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 23:50 | is this the default location of your image?
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| 23:50 | location and name
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| 23:50 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 23:50 | <warren> k
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