IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 14 November 2011 (all times are UTC)
| 00:10 | andygraybeal has joined IRC (andygraybeal!~andy.gray@obsidian.casanueva.com) | |
| 00:26 | <Matrix3000-Home> !ltsp-build-client
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| 00:26 | <ltsp> Matrix3000-Home: Error: "ltsp-build-client" is not a valid command.
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| 00:40 | <andygraybeal> ehh m3k-h
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| 00:52 | <Matrix3000-Home> hey, we need to update man page for ltsp-build-client
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| 00:52 | for fat client extensions
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| 00:53 | * andygraybeal gets the whip out, well get to work son. | |
| 00:54 | <Matrix3000-Home> I can't update man pages
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| 00:54 | lol
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| 00:54 | <andygraybeal> ahh.. no wiki stuff eh?
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| 00:54 | <Matrix3000-Home> they are in the wiki, just not in the man page, and that has to be done on the development side i believe
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| 00:54 | <andygraybeal> ahh
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| 00:54 | <Matrix3000-Home> man page is more for the main documentation
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| 00:54 | for each commands functionality
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| 00:54 | <andygraybeal> man pages are scary, wiki's are way more fun
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| 01:26 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 01:28 | <andygraybeal> scottty
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| 01:53 | <Matrix3000-Home> evening
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| 01:56 | using the ltsp-build-client.conf file it uses the servers /etc/apt/sources.list
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| 02:36 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: arount?
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| 10:17 | <Hooh9> using LTSP5 under Ubuntu, with NBD, but lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/amd64/ gets ignored, any ideas?
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| 10:52 | <muppis> Hooh9, check right of the file can be read by tftpd.
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| 10:52 | rights*
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| 10:53 | <Hooh9> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 442 2011-11-11 17:07 lts.conf
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| 10:57 | correct so?
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| 10:59 | <muppis> Looks like.
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| 11:00 | Take local xterm open and try this: tftp <server-ip> -c get /ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 11:00 | Change i386 to amd64, if using 64bit clients.
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| 11:04 | <Hooh9> Transfer timed out.
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| 11:09 | <muppis> Check from server is there anybody listening udp port 69
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| 11:09 | netstat -uanp as root
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| 11:28 | * khildin is away: I'm busy, or afk, or..... just don't disturb ok.... :P | |
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| 12:03 | <andygraybeal> all hail greece.
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| 12:03 | and the beautiful seas that glisten against their shores.
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| 12:11 | * khildin is back (gone 00:42:24) | |
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| 12:14 | <Hooh9> udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:* 1636/dnsmasq
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| 12:14 | udp 0 0 0.0.0.0:69 0.0.0.0:* 1255/inetd
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| 12:17 | <muppis> Hooh9, try to disable dnsmasq's tftp part.
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| 12:17 | Should be in /etc/dnsmasq.conf
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| 12:38 | <Hooh9> tftp is started with option /srv/tftp
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| 12:38 | so I need to put lts.conf in there
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| 12:39 | <muppis> In dnsmasq?
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| 12:42 | You don't need dnsmasq's tftp, use one provided by inetd.
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| 12:59 | <Hooh9> yes, I am using inetd
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| 13:03 | <muppis> Then you can disable it from dnsmasq, if you do not need it anywhere else.
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| 13:49 | <veloutin> good morning mgariepy
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| 13:53 | <matrix30001> good morning guys
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> Wow your number is constantly increasing, I hope that's somehow connected with your mood :D
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| 14:04 | <matrix30001> what do you mean my number?
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| 14:04 | oh, it's just because I keep on signing into IRC from everywhere
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| 14:04 | including your moms house
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| 14:04 | lol
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> Is that supposed to imply that you're been in my mom's house?
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| 14:05 | I think that's rude to someone that's been helping you for weeks
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| 14:05 | <matrix30001> ahaha
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| 14:05 | i was kidding man
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> I didn't think it was funny
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| 14:06 | <matrix30001> sorry if i offended you, but I do thank you for your help and all your expertise...and I am trying to help otehrs with the lessons I have learned.
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| 14:06 | also trying to help with documentation
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| 14:10 | you don't know about your mama jokes?
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> I like some of them. But I find others too rude.
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| 14:10 | <matrix30001> ah
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| 14:11 | well i appologize then
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> OK, let's just forget it :)
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| 14:11 | <matrix30001> hah
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| 14:11 | k
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| 14:12 | hey, did we get ltsp-build-image.conf documented
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| 14:12 | seems all the options for that conf aren't listed
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| 14:25 | <matrix30001> why isn't FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOP valid in ltsp-build-client.conf
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| 14:26 | instead its FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOPS
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| 14:28 | <dead_inside> i have never tried it, but you can probably list multiple desktops to build into the client image, then they just pick the one they want from the login screen
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| 14:29 | so hense the reason for desktops instead of desktop
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| 14:33 | <matrix30001> yea, but all it does is specify the distro you want installed in the initial build of the ltsp chroot
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| 14:34 | where in the ltsp-build-client command you would use FAT_CLIENT_DESKTOP
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| 14:34 | well actually
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| 14:34 | fat-client-desktop
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| 14:35 | <dead_inside> good to know, i have never actually used the ltsp-build-client.conf, i am a gentoo man and build my images manually
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> matrix30001: those are 2 separate options
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| 14:36 | fat-client-desktop == use the server desktop
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| 14:36 | fat-client-desktops == manually specify a list
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| 14:36 | They are supported both from the command line and from the .conf file
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| 14:37 | <dead_inside> where would we be without alkisg
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| 14:48 | <matrix30001> so all ltsp-build-client options will work in ltsp-build-client.conf
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| 15:30 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 15:35 | <matrix30001> alkisg: ah ok, we may need to put fat-client-desktops in the man page then
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| 15:35 | cause fat-client-desktop is, and fat-client-desktops is not
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| 15:35 | that's why i had my question
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> !s
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| 15:36 | <ltsp> alkisg: s: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 15:36 | <andygraybeal> nice
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| 15:37 | <matrix30001> !fail
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| 15:37 | <ltsp> matrix30001: I do not know about 'fail', but I do know about these similar topics: 'flash'
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| 15:37 | <matrix30001> ha, that's perfect
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| 15:37 | fail is similar to flash
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| 15:37 | !win
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| 15:37 | <ltsp> matrix30001: I do not know about 'win', but I do know about these similar topics: 'wiki', 'w'
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| 15:37 | <matrix30001> ahahaha
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| 15:39 | !secret
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| 15:39 | <ltsp> matrix30001: I do not know about 'secret', but I do know about these similar topics: 'socat'
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| 15:39 | <matrix30001> !socat
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| 15:39 | <ltsp> matrix30001: socat: One way to share a console with a remote person is: [local pc] forward port 25547, run: socat tcp-listen:25547,keepalive=1 stdio,raw,echo=0 [remote pc] socat SYSTEM:"sleep 1 && exec screen -xRR ra",pty,stderr tcp:server:25547 & screen -l -S ra
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| 15:41 | matrix30001 is now known as Matrix | |
| 15:41 | Matrix is now known as Matrix3000 | |
| 15:41 | <Matrix3000> there we go
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: found you!
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| 15:44 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: hey ho
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| 15:44 | just replied to the mailing list
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| 15:44 | I've done some more work on the nss module
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| 15:44 | sync up, hopefully it clears up the issues you had.
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| 15:45 | bbiab, local problem.
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: thanks!
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| 15:46 | sbalneav: i might need a little hand-holding to figure out how to test the libpam-sshauth module
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Hey vagrantc, if some time you have a few minutes, I think epoptes is ready to be pushed to unstable
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| 15:48 | (when you're finished with pamssh* :))
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| 15:49 | <Matrix3000> what is epoptes
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| 15:49 | !epoptes
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| 15:49 | <ltsp> Matrix3000: epoptes: Epoptes is a computer lab administration and monitoring tool. It works on Ubuntu and Debian based LTSP or non-LTSP servers, thin and fat clients, standalone workstations, NX clients etc. More info: http://www.epoptes.org
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| 15:50 | <Matrix3000> is it like iTalc?
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 15:50 | <Matrix3000> !iTalc
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| 15:50 | <ltsp> Matrix3000: iTalc: http://italc.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?title=ITALC_in_a_ThinClient_environment
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| 15:50 | <Matrix3000> ah ok
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| 15:50 | <ogra_> no, its not
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| 15:50 | its BETTER !
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| 15:50 | :)
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> Hehe, it even works :D
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| 15:50 | <Matrix3000> haha, nice
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| 15:50 | i could never get italc to work
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| 15:50 | alkisg, you never cease to amaze us
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| 15:52 | <pscheie> and epoptes is actively maintained!
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| 15:52 | <pscheie> developed, even
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| 15:57 | <Matrix3000> ok, so is it working or not
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| 15:57 | and we prolly need to add a ltsp wiki
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| 15:57 | haha
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> It's working, yes, and it's documented in its site
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: shouldn't epoptes-client/X50-client-env go into ltsp-trunk?
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> I don't think there's need for wiki
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| 15:58 | vagrantc: yes, but we depended on it to release the next version
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| 15:58 | So I temporarily put it there
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| 15:58 | Also maybe it's better to store all those in xprops, not in env vars
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| 15:58 | So that they're available in any app, not only those that inherit the environment
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| 15:59 | So anyway if we want that in ltsp, we can implement it with just a different name
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| 15:59 | And when it's upstream, we can remote it from epoptes
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| 15:59 | *remove
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: suppose so.
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| 16:01 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: sure, NP
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| 16:01 | vagrantc: do those changes make handle the licensing issues?
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: yes, those changes should fix it.
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| 16:04 | sbalneav: i'll give some more testing and hopefully upload tonight
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| 16:04 | <sbalneav> coolio
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| 16:05 | The one gotcha (if you're testing) is that the sshsock NSS module needs to be placed AFTER compat
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i did actually try it both ways :)
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| 16:06 | <sbalneav> otherwise it goes into an infinite loop, which I haven't figured out how to detect and prevent yet.
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| 16:06 | <vagrantc> i wonder if it's unusual in general to have pam/nss modules respond differently to environment variables
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| 16:06 | sbalneav: yeah, and eats ram like no tomorrow!
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| 16:06 | <sbalneav> Not sure, but it seemed the most reasonable way.
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| 16:06 | Well, it just starts forking ssh's
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| 16:07 | <vagrantc> thankfully i kept it contained in a smallish virtual machine
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| 16:07 | <sbalneav> what's happening is, it when you do a getent, it wants to check something else, and goes another getent.
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| 16:07 | which spawns another ssh
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| 16:07 | but that wants to do ANOTHER getetnt
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| 16:07 | ad infinitum.
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| 16:08 | <vagrantc> here's to latin!
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| 16:08 | <sbalneav> The way to fix it would be some kind of semaphore, I think. I'll have to look at other nss modules
| |
| 16:08 | to see how they handle it.
| |
| 16:08 | The one I looked at (extrausers) has exactly the same problem :)
| |
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| 16:10 | <sbalneav> afk for a bit; work intrudes
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> vagrantc: (just a note) in ltsp we shouldn't detect the mac address with `route` or `ip route` etc, but we should save DEVICE from the initramfs in ltsp_config instead.
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the one passed via pxelinux?
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> Or the one that udhcpc gets a lease from
| |
| 16:10 | In all cases, we do have it in /tmp/net-eth0.conf
| |
| 16:11 | * vagrantc still uses klibc/ipconfig | |
| 16:11 | <alkisg> In that case too
| |
| 16:11 | And chroot /root preserves the env
| |
| 16:11 | So it should be there in initramfs.d
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> So, all we need is an `test -n "$DEVICE" && echo LTSP_CLIENT_MAC="$DEVICE" >> ltsp_config`
| |
| 16:12 | Hi jammcq :)
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| 16:12 | <jammcq> hey alkisg
| |
| 16:12 | * vagrantc hasn't checked any of the recent changes with the initramfs stuff with debian | |
| 16:12 | <alkisg> ...and then to export that in client_env
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| 16:12 | <vagrantc> although i know there were some assumptions of writeability in places that would be hard to write to (barring everything being writeable)
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> That's why I put it to epoptes instead, the correct solution for LTSP_CLIENT_MAC will take a while :)
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: fair enough
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> vagrantc: If aufs over nfs works fine, I think you could switch to that as the default
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if we could check in epoptes for those variables already existing in the environment, we could save a few binary calls
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| 16:14 | alkisg: that would make backwards compatibility easier
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> You mean before calling all those route -n etc?
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| 16:14 | I want to replace those with ip route anyway...
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| 16:15 | Do you want that only for X50-client-env, or for epoptes-client too?
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i didn't give it a thorough look-over yet, just noticing a seemingly generic ltsp/ldm hook stood out
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| 16:22 | <alkisg1> #@(*#@($ what's wrong with my internet today?! :(
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| 16:22 | !last --from vagrantc
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| 16:22 | <ltsp> alkisg1: [16:18:58] <vagrantc> alkisg: i didn't give it a thorough look-over yet, just noticing a seemingly generic ltsp/ldm hook stood out
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg1: yeah, that's the last i said
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> i guess i could get initramfs-tools to accept a patch to optionally handle the aufs bits
| |
| 16:30 | but that would make backporting harder
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> vagrantc, you don't have any ltsp-specific code in the initramfs now anyway?!
| |
| 16:31 | (for the nfs case)
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: only some of the nfs-bottom stuff
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| 16:32 | alkisg: the root mounting is straight from initramfs-tools
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think you could still do aufs+tmpfs etc from nfs-bottom, no?
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> i don't know ... but it's a feature that might be generally useful, so why not get it into initramfs-tools itself?
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> less code we need to maintain in LTSP
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| 16:34 | <alkisg> True
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| 16:46 | <ogra_> note that aufs is dead, even in ubuntu :)
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| 16:47 | stgraber knows the runes for the new way though
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc> *sigh*
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| 16:47 | <stgraber> yeah, still need to s/aufs/overlayfs/ in the upstream code :)
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| 16:47 | <vagrantc> stgraber: that's the only real change needed?
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| 16:48 | <stgraber> almost, there's also a small change in the mount options
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| 16:48 | <ogra_> no, the mounting is differnt
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| 16:48 | but its not much
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> is this in the upstream kernel?
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| 16:48 | <ogra_> and it should be possible for debian to use it now, since its a mainline feature
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| 16:48 | yes
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| 16:49 | <stgraber> oh, when did it get in?
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| 16:49 | <ogra_> dunno, do we use it ahead of time ?
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| 16:49 | <stgraber> I think so, yes
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| 16:49 | <vagrantc> i don't see it in the 3.0 kernel
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| 16:49 | <ogra_> afaik the kernel team only wanted to siwtch if there is a true expectation that the new way goes upstream
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| 16:49 | <stgraber> br=/,/root => upperdir=/,lowerdir=/root
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| 16:50 | <ogra_> so it might still have to wait until 3.2
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| 16:50 | <vagrantc> well, it would be good to support either, in order to make backportability possible, if it's not too insane.
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| 17:53 | <sbalneav> Gadi: responded to your email: short answer; I think pam_group would be cleaner.
| |
| 17:58 | * vagrantc hasn't yet gotten any ltsp-developer emails ... | |
| 17:58 | * vagrantc looks for mailserver issues | |
| 18:02 | <vagrantc> huh. i got Gadi's response before sbalneav's mail
| |
| 18:02 | <sbalneav> I'm such a slowpoke
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| 18:03 | Mine just showed up here
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| 18:03 | Maybe it sends out alphabetically :)
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| 18:03 | g < s < v :)
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| 18:03 | <alkisg> For receipents too, I got them before vagrantc :)
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| 18:04 | <sbalneav> a < g < s < v :)
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| 18:04 | <mistik1> hheh
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: the one quirk i had to work around with libnss-sshsock is i had to create an empty changelog at runtime and an empty m4 dir for some libtool/autoconf stuff.
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> Would it be possible to sync the client system groups with the server system groups, on initramfs.d ?
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| 18:04 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: ah, yeah
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| 18:04 | I'm not sure how to handle that.
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| 18:05 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: but i'm going to go with my simple workarounds and upload... right now!
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| 18:05 | <sbalneav> if you just do a checkout, you need to run "libtoolize" to copy in the m4 macros that it needs
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| 18:05 | now to me, it doesn't make sense to include the m4 macros in the distribution.
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| 18:06 | As for changelog, I can create one. Can you add empty dirs in bzr?
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| 18:07 | <vagrantc> yeah, we could probably ship an empty m4 dir
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| 18:07 | <sbalneav> the configure script seems to run libtoolize anyway.
| |
| 18:08 | <vagrantc> the way we did it with ltsp/ldm/ltspfs is to run something that generates the tarball with the changelog and all the auto* already run ... but it's kind of crufty to ship all the auto*
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| 18:08 | <sbalneav> ok, after lunch I'll try that. In a few minutes I need to run out and deposit a cheque and return some library books.
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| 18:09 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: it's already uploaded to debian ... we can worry about fixes later :)
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| 18:09 | <sbalneav> heh, ok
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| 18:10 | ok, bbiab
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| 18:11 | <Gadi> sbalneav: just wrote ya back
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| 18:11 | :)
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| 18:11 | too bad we never chat anymore...
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| 18:11 | ;)
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| 18:12 | <vagrantc> Gadi: have you tested libpam-sshauth?
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| 18:12 | <Gadi> not yet
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| 18:12 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 18:12 | <Gadi> is it not testing well?
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| 18:13 | <vagrantc> i can
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| 18:13 | t figure it out
| |
| 18:13 | tr "\n" "'"
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| 18:16 | * Gadi works on compiling it | |
| 18:16 | <Gadi> :P
| |
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| 18:20 | <nubae> what does ssomeone recomment as a completely fat clietn not connected to thin client/phat client network, but limited to 400mb ram and a a 1.5ghz celerohn?
| |
| 18:20 | I was thinking Lubuntu?
| |
| 18:21 | reg ubuntu wont even load and netbook remix with briliant nit seems to have beeb
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| 18:21 | been halted at 10.10
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| 18:23 | im considering puppy or strawberry too, just dont know whats gonna run hood and look ok.... it is a 7 year old machine
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> "Completely fat client" you mean standalone installation not related to LTSP at all?
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| 18:33 | <nubae_> and I know its better asked on other channels
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| 18:33 | im trying lubuntu now
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| 18:33 | think it should do the trick
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> I got the best results ever (RAM-wise) with Debian/LXDE in single mode, it required less than 30 MB RAM with X running.
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| 18:35 | Other than that, tinycorelinux was ok but didn't support the Greek keyboard as it was using xvesa
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| 18:41 | <nubae_> ill let u know abotu lubuntu.... its a miracle this acer machine is sill running
| |
| 18:41 | while my newest machines are a;ll dying on me ewxtremely near warranty date
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| 18:42 | its a bit iffy if u wask me
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> nubae_, your writing has become unreadable lately
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| 18:42 | <nubae_> ask
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> Have you been hanging out with tooooo young women? :D
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| 18:42 | <nubae_> why? which part was unreadable? :-}
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> !leet
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| 18:42 | <ltsp> alkisg: leet: 7H15 M3554G3 53RV35 7O PR0V3 H0W 0UR M1ND5 C4N D0 4M4Z1NG 7H1NG5! 1MPR3551V3 7H1NG5! 1N 7H3 B3G1NN1NG 17 WA5 H4RD BU7 N0W, 0N 7H15 LIN3 Y0UR M1ND 1S R34D1NG 17 4U70M471C4LLY W17H 0U7 3V3N 7H1NK1NG 4B0U7 17, B3 PROUD! 0NLY C3R741N P30PL3 C4N R3AD 7H15.
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| 18:42 | <nubae_> iffy = not working so well
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| 18:43 | yeha yeah yeah
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> :)
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| 18:43 | <nubae_> only certain people can read this my asss
| |
| 18:44 | bet u8 put that out to a class of 20people and 19 will get it iin less than a minute
| |
| 18:44 | but yeah u gots 2 get wiz da social flow
| |
| 18:45 | tweeting along and denting a song
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> Well it does take me considerable amount of concentration to read your last sentence :)
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| 18:45 | In Greece some people use latin letters to write Greek... I never like that either!
| |
| 18:45 | <nubae_> about how facebook and zynga and all the others have ruined the experienc of true L33333Tnesss for us original geeeks
| |
| 18:47 | ok ok ... I'll go back to just using emoticons for now
| |
| 18:47 | <alkisg> My eyes can't thank you enough :)
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| 18:47 | <nubae_> and u can at least catch my hackergochi in tweets, which I'm doing less and less of... starting to think it might be fad after all :-(
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| 18:48 | twitter that is
| |
| 18:48 | people will get tired of it
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| 18:48 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i dunno when you'd be available to help troubleshoot using libpam-sshauth ... although later today i'm going to be heading out for some errands
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| 18:50 | <nubae_> man I swear dvd labelling pens make a run for it the minute u've writen a disk
| |
| 18:50 | Icarefully cleaned ever part of my office area and the pen was on the table, the cd, being written, I turn around for 2 seconds
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| 18:50 | bam....
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| 18:51 | pen gon
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| 18:55 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: I've probably got a few minutes now
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: ok :)
| |
| 19:04 | * vagrantc is kind of scattered making a late breakfast | |
| 19:05 | <sbalneav> np
| |
| 19:06 | So, first step is to install the libpam-dotfile package
| |
| 19:07 | <ogra_> Gadi, i dont think there are still many distros that use groups for permissions
| |
| 19:07 | (wrt your mail)
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| 19:07 | its all policykit and udev-acl nowadays
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: that first step seems difficult
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| 19:08 | <alkisg> If one changes a system group id, and reboots his system, is it *guaranteed* to work fine? I.e. are all system dev nodes, sockets etc chmod'ed on boot?
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: don't have libpam-dotfile on debian
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> *chown'ed
| |
| 19:10 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: ah, it's not in testing, but it's in unstable ...
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| 19:10 | sbalneav: er, it appears to have been removed from debian
| |
| 19:11 | <sbalneav> urg
| |
| 19:11 | we need the pamtest utility
| |
| 19:11 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'll see if i can pull it from stable ...
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| 19:13 | sbalneav: ok, installed ...
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| 19:14 | <sbalneav> perfect
| |
| 19:14 | so, you'll need to create a file in /etc/pam.d called "flarp" or whatever you'd like
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| 19:15 | <sbalneav> and put in the file:
| |
| 19:15 | <Gadi> ogra_: ah, that would be good. May make the whole thing a non-issue
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| 19:15 | <sbalneav> auth required pam_sshauth.so host=some.host.to.connect.to
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: ok.
| |
| 19:17 | groups are definitely used for some things, though
| |
| 19:17 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 19:18 | <sbalneav> then you should be able to say "pamtest flarp sbalneav"
| |
| 19:18 | err vagrantc
| |
| 19:18 | hey jammcq
| |
| 19:19 | <nubae> scotty!!!! kind of makes me think of spotify
| |
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| 19:19 | <nubae> god I've been instisocialised
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: that worked!
| |
| 19:20 | <nubae> network instisocialized = person having been drawn into the the social network crap far too much
| |
| 19:21 | what do you think... could be a new dictionary entry
| |
| 19:21 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: perfect
| |
| 19:21 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: so it should work for something like ... login?
| |
| 19:22 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: well, not without a lot of scripting in the pam_exec part
| |
| 19:22 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: oh.
| |
| 19:23 | <sbalneav> Theoretically, it could do full login. But I've never tried
| |
| 19:23 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: so, i looked at the "ltsp-session" example ... and sort of half-understood that ...
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| 19:23 | sbalneav: it's meant to be run from within X ?
| |
| 19:23 | <sbalneav> Yeah, it should run from within a display manager.
| |
| 19:23 | the idea is to have the display manager's pam config use this for auth
| |
| 19:24 | chaining in the pam_exec + scripts will launch the ssh tunnel, and ultimately start the X session.
| |
| 19:24 | so:
| |
| 19:24 | dm -> pam_sshauth (auth)
| |
| 19:25 | pam_exec -> launch tunnel, do any ltsp plumbing needed
| |
| 19:25 | dm -> starts Xsession
| |
| 19:25 | Xsession script -> starts LTSP xsession stuff in /etc/Xsession.d
| |
| 19:26 | et voila.
| |
| 19:27 | I have to run off for a bit. Back later.
| |
| 19:29 | <alkisg> So, what exactly is the problem with the system groups? We match the ones that exist, create those that don't exist, preferrably with the same gid... in which case would that cause problems?
| |
| 19:30 | * nubae found out hard way, all users must be primarily in their own group | |
| 19:31 | <nubae> without that and owndership fully to user.user theres no telling what happens
| |
| 19:31 | <alkisg> I think the talk in the mailing list is about system groups (<1000 or <500), not user groups
| |
| 19:31 | <nubae> i made a little script that goes through at fixes it cuase cant trust teachers not to screw that uo=o
| |
| 19:32 | ah
| |
| 19:32 | then mre shuts up
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| 19:38 | * Gadi is not sure what would be the problem of having sshsock as the first module in the group and a MINGID of 1. | |
| 19:43 | <vagrantc> Gadi: if it returns an inconsistant uid/gid mapping, then your processes already started on the thin client might end up with all sorts of pain
| |
| 19:44 | also, if you log in to different servers, each with different gids, from the same thin client ... you'll get really screwey results ...
| |
| 19:44 | <Gadi> vagrantc: if 2 nss modules have the same group with different group IDs, it will always prefer one
| |
| 19:44 | so, we make it prefer the client
| |
| 19:44 | <vagrantc> sure
| |
| 19:44 | basically what we do now witth our evil hacks
| |
| 19:45 | <Gadi> no - what we do now is more evil
| |
| 19:45 | <vagrantc> well, sure
| |
| 19:45 | <Gadi> because we *add* to the client
| |
| 19:45 | 's groups
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| 19:45 | <Gadi> I don't know why we would need a server system group that is not on the client
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| 19:46 | so, I guess MINGID=500 is equivalent
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| 19:46 | <vagrantc> if we just ensure the names map?
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| 19:46 | <Gadi> this may be much ado about nothing
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| 19:47 | stick with user groups like we have, and deal with system group membership with pam_group
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| 19:47 | seems clean
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> there are numerous services that still use groups for authentication
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> dynamically tweaking pam_group's config, while somewhat evil, is less evil than what we're doing now, i guess.
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| 19:48 | <Gadi> you mean as an acl not for authentication
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| 19:48 | right?
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> sure, an acl.
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| 19:49 | i.e. kvm, epoptes, libvirt
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| 19:49 | fuse
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| 19:49 | <Gadi> right - so at the least, we should be able to tweak pam_group on boot via lts.conf
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| 19:49 | maybe that is enough
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> Gadi: on boot? a user logs into one system, gets certain rights, and then logs into another system, gets different rights ...
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| 19:50 | <Gadi> I doubt most would configure it that way, but sure
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> it's unclear what the mapping from server-side group membership to client-side group membership should be
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| 19:50 | <Gadi> that's possible
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| 19:51 | right
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| 19:51 | that's the crux
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| 19:51 | I mean, let's say you had PCs
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> on ubuntu, the "admin" group typically allows sudo access, no?
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| 19:51 | <Gadi> and ldap auth
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| 19:51 | would you not use pam_group to adjust memberships to local system groups?
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> i don't know how you'd do it :)
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| 19:53 | that's why we're messing around with all this ssh craziness :)
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| 19:54 | <Gadi> heh
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| 19:55 | <andygraybeal> one of my users just asked if it was possible fi they happened to type the wrong name in ... but already pressed enter and they are now at the 'password' prompt if they can go back to the username input screen without having to cycle through the system looking up the name?
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| 19:56 | <Gadi> andygraybeal: not that I am aware of
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| 19:56 | <andygraybeal> thank you, Gadi
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| 19:57 | <Gadi> add to the list for a new ldm with bot username/password prompts on the login page
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| 19:57 | :)
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| 19:57 | *both
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| 19:57 | <andygraybeal> thanks gadi :) do you want me to request that somewhere?
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| 19:58 | <Gadi> I cannot believe it wouldn't already be requested somewhere
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| 19:58 | the reason we never had it was we didn't want to stash the password anywhere iirc
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| 19:58 | just pass it through
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| 19:59 | and we didn't get prompted for a password from ssh until *after* we needed the username
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| 19:59 | <andygraybeal> it's just a quirck, and it only takes 3 seconds for the prompt to cycle itself.
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| 19:59 | so it's not a big deal. he was just wondering
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| 20:00 | <Gadi> yeah, but UI development is all about not letting all the little deals sum up to a big usability deal
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> Btw http://live.debian.net/devel/live-boot/ may have some bits that we could use
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| 20:05 | (not for the groups; in general)
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've had promises from daniel baumann to make LTSP's initramfs hooks obsolete for a couple years now :)
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> alkisg: hrm. epoptes's build-dependencies appear to be broken in sid at the moment :(
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| 20:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc: erm, it builded fine in launchpad in all series after Lucid...
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| 20:09 | What's the error?
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| 20:09 | Ah, the dependencies themselves
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> sid is showing the reason it's called unstable at the moment
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| 20:10 | it's not the software itself, it's the collection as a whole
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| 20:10 | <alkisg> Well we can wait for a week then, Phantomas will probably even have the groups (classes) editing ready by then
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| 20:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'll try building on wheezy ... i've got some build failures at the moment...
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| 20:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it seems like it's trying to run something a twisted daemon as part of the build process?!
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| 20:13 | <alkisg> I don't know why python does that, I even get "gtk: can't open display" warnings when I run debuild
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| 20:14 | Just an "import gtk" is enough to produce warnings. Let me see about "import twistd"...
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| 20:15 | Can't it generate the .pyc files or whatever else it needs without importing/running the sources?! :(
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: build failure from current bzr: http://pastebin.com/wvzrL0bZ
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> ty
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| 20:17 | Mine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/738549/
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| 20:19 | Ah, your looks like our bug, let me reproduce it
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> (no idea *why* it should try to start the daemon while building, but it shouldn't crash in any case, even if the certificate which is generated on postinst is'nt there)
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| 20:22 | vagrantc: ah, here's an idea. Mine compiles with pycentral, and yours with dh_python, right?
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| 20:22 | So I'd need to check a build log from natty+, to see dh_python2...
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| 20:22 | Because in my case, it doesn't try to launch the daemon in the build process
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| 20:24 | Natty buildlog: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85101912/buildlog.txt.gz
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, the difference with dh_python2 might be the issue
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'll send you a patch in 2 mins
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no changes in dh_python2 since early october
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so if we try to run the daemon, and the certificate isn't there, what should the daemon do?
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| 20:31 | Shouldn't it exit with an error?
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| 20:32 | <vagrantc> probably
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| 20:32 | unless it's configred to not use the certificate
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| 20:33 | <alkisg> I didn't make an option for that, except for a small hack: if the file does exist but it's size is zero
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| 20:33 | <vagrantc> alkisg: looks like it's building in a clean chroot
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: this should also enable it to build in your "not clean" chroot too: http://paste.ubuntu.com/738566/
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't know why it would behave differently there ...
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| 20:38 | same basic OS... just some other cruft installed
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> It's an error for config.py to crash on import anyway
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| 20:39 | It's ok if it raises an exception if someone tries to run epoptes without a certificate, but not just by importing config.py
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> So I should probably commit that "except: pass" anyway
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| 20:51 | * vagrantc runs through a few epoptes tests | |
| 20:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: should lock screen work at the login screen?
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| 20:56 | alkisg: seems to work after login
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: seems like it could ... broadcast works at the login screen :)
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> The idea is e.g. "I click on lock and all screens get locked, but if some kid has yet to login, allow it to proceed"
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| 20:57 | So that it catches up with the rest
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i could see the case for "prevent people from even logging in yet"
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| 20:58 | <alkisg> The other idea is "don't put too much strain on 64mb clients" ;)
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 20:58 | when 64 bits just isn't enough :)
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> vncviewer only needs 4-5 MB RAM, screen locking with python about 15 :-/
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> ouch
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| 20:59 | so you do that server-side?
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| 20:59 | <alkisg> yes
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| 20:59 | But we want to support nx clients too in the future
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| 20:59 | For distance learning classrooms
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| 21:00 | So we'll have to at least support broadcasting in the user session too
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| 21:01 | So, we'll probably implement it like "use the session epoptes-client if it's available, otherwise do it with the system epoptes-client"
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| 21:01 | And that will allow for screen locking before login, too ;)
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the desktop thumbnailing seems snappier
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> It should! Previously it required ~3 MB for each client! Damn x-client-side resizing :)
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| 21:02 | Thankfully some random comment in #cairo made me realize it
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, other than sid itself being broken at the moment, epoptes seems to be working well enough
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> I think we'll see a bit of instability when the classroom editing is first introduced, maybe for a couple of weeks, so it's probably better to push the current branch when sid is ok again
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> looks like tcos is sitting in Debian's NEW queue again ...
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| 21:15 | alkisg: FYI it's the perl transition from 5.12 -> 5.14 that's blocking buildability in sid
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| 21:16 | hopefully this will be quick and painless.
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| 21:16 | <alkisg> Ah. Hopefully perl will RIP some time before us
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| 21:16 | :P
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| 21:16 | Its code is too unreadable!
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> heh.
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| 21:19 | looks like this could be a long one: http://release.debian.org/transitions/html/perl5.14.html
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| 22:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yesterday i probably would have been able to build and upload epoptes ... the new perl just went in yesterday
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| 22:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc: no worries, the version in experimental is stable enough if someone is in a hurry to try it, and we can wait a couple of weeks for the next upload... do you think perl will need more?
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| 22:11 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no idea ... it clearly breaks a *lot*
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| 22:12 | <alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule => December 29th A-2 LTSDebianImportFreeze
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| 22:12 | So if we have a good + tested version in Debian about Dec 20th, we're ok
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| 22:13 | <vagrantc> hopefully will pull that off.
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| 22:17 | <alkisg> Since the project is new, some freeze exception would bring a more mature version, maybe more translations etc etc, but I'm not sure if we'll be able to do that
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| 22:18 | <Matrix3000> anyone here run wine on ltsp?
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| 22:18 | <alkisg> Matrix3000, sure, why?
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| 22:20 | <Matrix3000> need IE for a dumb website from paychex
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| 22:21 | cause they suck )=====D
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| 22:21 | lol
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| 22:24 | <vagrantc> hah.
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| 22:24 | Matrix3000: i *think* someone at my work uses wine+IE to access paychex
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| 22:54 | <Matrix3000> now the CEO and the CFO want to go to windows because we have had a bit of downtime this year with phones, switches failing, router failing, etc
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| 22:54 | and it's like that isn't really fixing the issue
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| 22:54 | lol
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| 22:54 | that's just finding something to blame and an expensive replacement for it
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| 22:55 | <Matrix3000> after fixing servers that randomly change ip addresses
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| 22:55 | and stupid stuff like that
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| 23:17 | <cliebow> Matrix3000, heh it figures
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| 23:18 | luckily i ve had openldap running ten years now..with tremendous uptmes
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| 23:18 | <Matrix3000> I mean it would fix some issues, but it would create others. I don't think people here understand the maintenance required on a windows server.
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| 23:18 | <cliebow> but ilost my linuxlab to one-to-one
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| 23:19 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 23:19 | <Matrix3000> Most of my education was on Windows systems, including my own personal studying and testing, and was a windows administrator at a private school
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| 23:19 | <cliebow> gotta run to a meeting,,i feel your pain
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| 23:19 | <Matrix3000> aight, later
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| 23:19 | <cliebow> !
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| 23:59 | <quietone> hi all, I am having trouble that users made with adduser can't login into two thinclients (dell boxes) but work on the three other machines we have.
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