IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 11 April 2008 (all times are UTC)

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00:07	<mathesis> hi
00:07	look its!
00:07	http://www.ncomputing.com
00:08	<cyberorg> warren, firefox maintainer http://news.opensuse.org/2008/01/25/people-of-opensuse-wolfgang-rosenauer/
00:09	<warren> cyberorg: firefox maintainer isn't a novell employee?
00:09	<cyberorg> warren, he was employed by suse
00:11	i maintain compiz fusion, not employed by novell either :)
00:11	<warren> was?
00:11	<cyberorg> he is now with Joost
00:12	openSUSE people, not exclusively novell/suse
00:13	<warren> I'm going to sleep instead of say something rude about SuSE.
00:13	* cyberorg washes warren's mouth with soap
00:18	<warren> Novell did something very bad for the community during 2006.
00:19	I don't understand why people would stick with them after that sellout.
00:19	Ubuntu is a very attractive alternative to them.
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01:31	<nesp> hi, does anyone here know where to find instructions on how to compile ltsp5 custom kernels for ubuntu?
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02:52	<gvy> morning! :)
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02:53	<gvy> warren, well, and we should try to understand opensuse folks as well as i should try to understand fedora folks and ....
02:53	there are real awful lots of mistakes we people do :(
02:54	nesp, well i'd google for "ubuntu [or debian] custom kernel build how", or sorts
02:55	nesp, also might depend on the kind of customness you need/want
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03:00	<nesp> gvy: yes, but i don't know which part needs to be added/changed to make it work in ltsp5
03:06	<gvy> nesp, it doesn't?
03:06	hm. then you might want to tell which ubuntu <s>is that broken</s> version do you try to use, and probably to ogra or somebody
03:07	*or somebody else keen in particular features required for ltsp5 there to work...
03:07	i don't use that, and in altlinux stock kernels are just fine (even if we do thin one)
03:08	nesp, what's the observed problem, anyways?
03:08	<nesp> i works.. i mean, i want to create my custom kernel for ubuntu but i don't know the proper way of doing it. can i just do it the same way as compiling non-ltsp cutsom kernels?
03:08	<gvy> well, if it works you might not want to break things :)
03:09	kernel builds are quite funny these days: those who really need generally don't have to ask...
03:09	<nesp> i have a netvista n2200 and i was able to make it boot using ltsp 3.3.. but it won't boot using ltsp5..
03:09	<gvy> how much ram there?
03:09	<nesp> 29mb
03:09	<gvy> won't do with stock ltsp5
03:09	better try ltsp4.2 or altsp5
03:10	we've discussed that recently... they need like 64+ now, better 128
03:10	altlinux flavour is more conservative (uses some 4.x features which are less hungry and more secure) and is currently able to boot in 16m :)
03:11	<nesp> does it use ldm?
03:11	<gvy> nope
03:11	xdmcp
03:12	although ldm2 seems way less ram-hungry :)
03:12	but ssh is still too cpu-hungry
03:13	<nesp> i guess i'll have to use 4.2 then..
03:13	thanks
03:14	<gvy> nesp, probably yes, or ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/beta/ltsp-server/ltsp5-4.0-RC1.iso
03:14	that one has ltsp5 approach to chroot setup but the actual transport is mostly ltsp4-way
03:15	works out-of-box with two ethernets (ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/beta/ltsp-server/README)
03:15	anyways, hth :)
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03:25	<moritz> Hello
03:26	I'm using edubuntu with ltsp enabled. So far it works fine, I only have one problem: on some clients the builtin harddisks do not get mounted
03:26	(it seems they cannot even be mounted)
03:26	those clients have SATA disks
03:27	is that a known problem? how could i modify the ltsp client software so that even those localdevices can be accessed?
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05:19	<vaineh> having trouble using usb mouse and keyboard on a thin client. usb subsystem gets loaded by then keybdev, mousedev and usbmouse modules are not found. how do i add them or find out whats going on?
05:21	<daduke> vaineh: have you tried changing into the chroot on the ltsp server and check whether the modules are present?
05:21	<vaineh> ha i wouldnt know how, sry :P
05:23	<ogra_> sounds like the kernel s out of sync with the image/nfs root (whatever you use there)
05:23	<daduke> vaineh: log in to the server, chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 or whatever you're using, then look in /lib/modules/<kernel>/kernel/drivers/usb/...
05:24	<ogra_> doesnt need chroot :) ls /opt/ltsp/i386/lib/modules ... and compare that with the kernels in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
05:24	the one with the highest version number is usually whats booted, make sure the modules are there
05:25	<vaineh> hmm ok, gonna go explore
05:25	<ogra_> what distro is that ?
05:25	<vaineh> suse 10.0 :/
05:26	<ogra_> with kixi-ltsp i assume then
05:26	err
05:26	*kiwi
05:27	vaineh, cyberorg is the maintainer for that, he has probably more specific help :)
05:28	<vaineh> first ive heard of kiwi :/
05:28	<cyberorg> vaineh, only opensuse 10.3 and up are supported at the moment
05:28	http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP
05:28	hi ogra_
05:29	<vaineh> this was set up by someone else and i've done very little to change it up till now so just trying to get into it
05:30	<ogra_> oh, then that sounds move like ltsp 4
05:30	*more
05:31	<tarzeau> CAN I BUY TEH LETTER F
05:31	does anyone use ltsp clients on non-i386 hardware?
05:32	<laga> tarzeau: x86_64 ;)
05:32	<tarzeau> and non-x86_64?
05:32	<vaineh> ogra_, correct
05:34	<ogra_> tarzeau, there are some people with ppc cliens
05:34	*clients
05:34	<tarzeau> ogra_: ah cool, we hope to be also part of them soon
05:35	* daduke is working on the ppc ltsp boot cd as we speak...
05:35	<ogra_> pc wasnt tested for quite some time i think
05:35	*ppc
05:35	since we dropped it in ubuntu nobody really cared, i think vagrant did one ppc test during the last year
05:36	(but he's lacking HW here afaik)
05:36	i'll probably do one test of it before release if i have any spare time left
05:37	<daduke> we hope to be able to report some progress soon
05:37	<ogra_> if i manage that and find issues you will get fixes into sid ...
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05:49	<vaineh> how do i check the kernels in /tftpboot ?
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06:04	<laga> ogra: have you ever tried to put /opt/ltsp/ into a ram disk? ltsp-build-client is slow evenwith apt-cacher
06:15	<ogra> no, i never did
06:15	<Q-FUNK> daduke: you might wanna keep in touch with svenl for this too
06:16	<ogra> Q-FUNK, is that "friendly sven" ?
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06:16	<daduke> Q-FUNK: live boot or ppc?
06:16	<Q-FUNK> daduke: ppc
06:17	ogra: the guy is quite friendly in person. however, he is quick on the trigger on mailing lists, which some people use to provoke him.
06:17	<ogra> yeah
06:17	<daduke> Q-FUNK: right. I'm just building it now.
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06:17	<jonkke> Hi
06:18	<ogra> having to deal with him, i'd always recommend flameproof underwear
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06:18	<Q-FUNK> ogra: it actually worries me that some of those people with confrontational behaviors are now a part of ubuntu, TBH.
06:18	<ogra> he has a habit of flaming people out of the blue because e misunderstood somethig in your mail
06:18	Q-FUNK, who exactly ?
06:18	<Q-FUNK> and others have a habit of flaming him just because "oh, not him again"
06:19	<daduke> he's not around here, is he? ;)
06:19	<ogra> sven is surely not doing anything in ubuntu anymore
06:19	no idea
06:19	<jonkke> any one knows why ltsp5 client says "localhost:11.0" when i say "echo $display" i think it should say like ws001:xx.x
06:19	<ogra> i dont care
06:19	jonkke, no, thats fine
06:19	<Q-FUNK> no, but some debian people with confrontational attitudes have been accepted into ubuntu
06:20	<ogra> if they behave in the ubuntu workld thats fine
06:20	<jonkke> how could i view client's name?
06:20	<ogra> jonkke, there is no clients nae if you dont define one in the dhcp config, ltsp5 doesnt use any namebased services by default, its all up to you if you want them
06:21	<jonkke> i have "use-host-decl-names on;" on dhcpd.conf
06:22	<ogra> Q-FUNK, the only one i'm aware of is iwj ho quickly left again (because he couldnt cope with the calmness i think)
06:22	<jonkke> and in client console (tty1) it says ws001, but i need it to show it somehow in X too
06:22	<ogra> jonkke, you need to define names
06:22	<jonkke> i have names in dhcp and in hosts
06:22	<laga> jonkke: well, the x session is running on your server..
06:23	<Q-FUNK> ogra: I think that what jonkke is saying is that he'd like thta naming to be consistent bewtween the logi prompt and the consoles
06:23	<ogra> laga, well, not the login manager
06:23	<laga> ogra: hum, true
06:23	<ogra> Q-FUNK, i understand what he is saying
06:23	<Q-FUNK> jonkke: works for me here, but then I'm running dnsmasq on the server side. it might explain why it works.
06:24	<ogra> ldm reads the nae from /etc/hostname though
06:24	so it should be the same thats on the tty
06:25	<jonkke> i try to set up a script that looks ws name and define default printer based on the name of client
06:25	<ogra> do it by ip :)
06:26	<jonkke> it's possible, but it would be easier to maintain through names
06:26	<ogra> should be pretty straight forward with a ldm r.d script
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06:26	<ogra> you dont need to maintain that at all
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06:26	<ogra> have a script that calls lpadmin in the session during login and sets the parameters you want
06:27	i was plannig to do something like that for ages, but didnt come around to it yet
06:28	but we probably wont need it anyway if oe day the client gets a haldaemon tat talks to the session ... (which is one of the bigger things on my todo list)
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06:32	<ogra> jonkke, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMrcScripts
06:33	jonkke, whatever is in the quotes in the last line of tha script will be executed in the users session with the auth bits of the loged in user (so make sure the user is in eh printer group if you want to put an lpadmin command in tehre)
06:36	<jonkke> but i want it to choose printer based on client name. i have 20 comp in one classroom and it would be perfect to jsut tell "if client name = 202* the default = printer2, elseif client name = 201* then printer2 etc
06:37	<ogra> right, but you said you have the name on the console
06:37	<jonkke> i think i need to set up dnsmasq to do that
06:37	<ogra> so the script will know i too
06:37	*it
06:37	<jonkke> ok
06:37	then i should try that
06:38	<ogra> put something like "echo $(hostname) >/tmp/client.debug" into the script to test ...
06:39	or cat /etc/hostname or so .... if the name is already there it should just work
06:39	<jonkke> ok
06:39	thanks. i try that now
06:46	do i need to run ltsp-update-image to get it work?
06:46	i'm really new to ltsp5. i just installed it
06:48	<ogra> ubuntu ?
06:48	or debian
06:48	<jonkke> edubuntu
06:49	<ogra> then you need ltsp-update-image, yes
06:50	<jonkke> i have used ltsp4.2, but this is quite different
06:50	<ogra> yeah
06:50	any quite old :)
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06:52	<jonkke> ogra: THANKS!
06:52	that worked
06:53	<ogra> :)
06:53	<Q-FUNK> :)
06:58	<ogra> jonkke, if you get a proper script together we could tie to a lts.conf value (something like LOCAL_DEFAULT_PRINTER), feel free to pass it on to me and i'll merge it inot the upstream code -> ogra@ubuntu.com .... so it will be in the next release of ltsp and you dont have to write it again next time :)
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07:10	<jonkke> ogra: i will
07:10	<ogra> thanks :)
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07:17	<jonkke> ogra: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-users/2007-January/000600.html i found that one, but i finished working for today and i can't test it until monday. but i will get back to you.
07:17	it needs little tweacking, but baasic consept should be ok.
07:18	<ogra> well, that was one of the initial reasons to create rc.d scripts for ldm :)
07:18	<jonkke> :)
07:19	<ogra> you dont need most of it since you dont need to detect anything you dont have available :)
07:19	<ace_suares> t
07:19	hey ogra
07:20	<ogra> i would run lpoptions to delete the default printer and then set the local one as the new default
07:20	hey ace_suares
07:20	<jonkke> ogra: i need to go now, but i get back to you at monday.
07:20	<ace_suares> wassup?
07:20	<jonkke> thanks again. see ya ->
07:20	<ogra> ace_suares, busy preparing the release
07:20	ciao jonkke
07:20	<ace_suares> ogra: i can not wait :-)
07:21	<ogra> well, i dont think there will be any more changes to ltsp unless i find a real locker
07:21	*blocker
07:21	http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ltsp-install-ubuntu.png in case you dont know yet :)
07:22	<ace_suares> ogra: i saw you handle the bug reports, cool. I found out that the best time to report bugs
07:22	... is just before a release :-)
07:22	<ogra> well, that means they get noticed, but you should have reported them 4 weeks ago for whishlist items :)
07:22	<ace_suares> ogra: re screenshot: Yeah, i tested that already :-) Great. Except for the 64/32 bit stuff (but you know that)
07:23	and also except that if you choose LTSP, then you go back to the same screen (no hint that you actually activated ltsp)
07:23	but you knwo that too :-)
07:23	<ogra> right, but there is no proper way around it if we want to provide non networked installs by default
07:24	<ace_suares> It's a very cool and quick way to setup a server ! (and can do it in ubuntu don't need seperate edubuntu cd's.. !)
07:24	<ogra> oh, well, i know that but didnt see it as an issue yet, you are the first one to cmlain about that
07:24	*complain
07:24	<ace_suares> First !
07:24	<ogra> heh
07:24	i'll see if we can indicate the mode somewhere in intrepid
07:24	<ace_suares> all in all, theres has been such enormous progress over the past 6 releases!
07:25	<ogra> nothing for hardy anymore
07:25	<ace_suares> amazing.!
07:25	<ogra> yeah, and it will even get better now that w already have fife distros committing upstream
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07:26	<ace_suares> Just fyi, I am now trying to run win4lin under dsl-n, so i will run entirely as a VM (kvm now) and no problems with the kernels anymore.
07:26	<ogra> nice
07:26	<ace_suares> That way, I can use standard ed(ubuntu)
07:26	and just drop in the entire win4lin package (with vnc i guess).
07:27	That seperates the two and then can make off all the benefits of linux straight, and when needed pop a client to the win4lin sessions for educational software that is only win..
07:27	anyway, nice talking to ya. Keep up the good work !!
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07:39	<gvy> ogra, g'day! :)
07:39	<ogra> hey hey
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07:42	<Blinny> In my experimenting with Hardy, many times after doing ltsp-build-client, the client will post, get a DHCP lease, and then very (very very) slowly start downloading the NBI image. The little spinning / \| \ - changes about once every three or four seconds. Prior to today, a server reboot would cure this, and it would run properly. However, today, the server reboot is not helping.
07:43	I'm assuming the tftp server is throttling...? I'm on a dedicated switch for this test, with no other clients on it.
07:45	Ah. On a PXE box I get "PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout" after waiting a few minutes.
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07:47	<ogra> Blinny, you are using PXE ?
07:47	err
07:47	etherboot
07:47	<Blinny> ogra: Tried both.
07:48	The PXE error was of course from a PXE client.
07:48	<ogra> sounds a bit like a second dhcpd, but dedicated switch somewhat rules that out
07:48	<Blinny> root@ws1-249:/var/lib/tftpboot# tftp localhost
07:48	tftp> get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
07:48	Transfer timed out.
07:48	<ogra> weird
07:49	<Blinny> I wouldn't mention it as I know you guys are slamming right now.. but this has been going for awhile. I should have bugfiled the first time I saw it but it always went away with a reboot.
07:49	<ogra> i havent seen something like that in my tests
07:49	<laga> what tftpd are you using?
07:49	<ogra> neither in virtualbox nor on real HW
07:50	<Blinny> Whatever comes with ltsp-server-standalone
07:50	I guess " tftpd - Trivial file transfer protocol server "
07:50	(apt-cache search)
07:50	<ogra> tftpd-hpa is the default
07:51	<Blinny> Oh. Then that one (;
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07:52	<Blinny> I'm definitely on a separate switch, and get an IP from the separated subnet (192.168.2. where my "public" side is 192.168.1)
07:53	tftpd-hpa runs through inetd right? Is there a way to turn on verbose (or any) logging?
07:53	<ogra> so there could be no other dhcpd in the net
07:54	<laga> Blinny: have you checked /ar/log/daemon.log ?
07:54	Blinny: have you checked /var/log/daemon.log ?
07:54	stupid fingers.
07:55	<Blinny> ogra: Not on this subnet, no.
07:56	laga: Only thing in there is the DHCP* messages
07:56	:s;is;are
07:57	I don't see where it could be dhcp related if I can't even use the tftp client to pull a file from the localhost.
07:57	<ogra> right
07:57	sounds different
07:57	<Blinny> I don't have a tftp line in /etc/inetd.conf
07:57	<ogra> oh
07:57	<Blinny> just ldpinfod, nbdswapd and nbdrootd
07:57	er, ldminfod
07:57	<gvy> Blinny, just in case -- i tend to check ifconfig for errors and dmesg for oopses in such cases
07:58	<ogra> dpkg -l tftpd-hpa
07:58	<gvy> with weird errors going away at reboot
07:58	<Blinny> ii tftpd-hpa 0.48-1ubuntu1 HPA's tftp server
07:58	<ogra> right
07:58	<gvy> (recently ohci1394 would cause kernel oopses at home being at the same irq as radeon)
07:58	<Blinny> Nod
07:58	<ogra> did you ever fiddle with /etc/default/tftpd-hpa ?
07:59	on that install <?
07:59	<Blinny> ogra: No. But I see it says 'RUN_DAEMON="no"'
07:59	<ogra> thas right
07:59	*thats
07:59	<Blinny> k
07:59	<ogra> it should
07:59	but the postinst should also have added it to the inetd.conf
08:00	dpkg -l update-inetd
08:00	is that installed ?
08:00	hmm
08:00	<Blinny> ii update-inetd 4.27-0.6 inetd.conf updater
08:00	<ogra> it has to be
08:00	else you wouldnt have the other entries
08:01	<Blinny> Could it have to do with the aborted ltsp-build-client from debbootstrap yesterday?
08:01	<ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfiure tftpd-hpa
08:01	<Blinny> I did an update/upgrade & ltsp-build-client first thing this morning.
08:01	-bash: dpkg-reconfiure: command not found ;) ;)
08:01	<ogra> no, thats set up uring install of tftpd-hpa
08:01	sudo dpkg-reconfigure tftpd-hpa
08:01	<Blinny> heh yeah I did that
08:01	<ogra> sorry, typo
08:02	<Blinny> Saying 'Yes' to starting from inetd superserver does not add the line to /etc/inetd.conf
08:02	<ogra> and tftpd-hpa is a dependency of ltsp-server
08:02	ugh
08:02	* ogra fires up his virtualbox install from last night
08:04	<ogra> its properly set up there
08:06	<Blinny> Should dpkg-reconfigure tftpd-hpa add the line to /etc/inetd.conf?
08:07	The file is 644 root.root
08:07	<ogra> yes, if you gave the answer to start from inetd
08:07	update-inetd is run from dpkg which runs as root
08:08	so 644 should be fine
08:09	<Blinny> What's the line that should be there? I can run it through update-inetd directly to see if the problem lies there or in dpkg-reconfigure
08:09	<ogra> /var/lib/dpkg/info/tftpd-hpa.postinst has the original line
08:10	<Blinny> Yeah that worked.
08:11	Let me test it now.
08:11	If this works do you want me to aptitude purge ltsp-server-standalone and then reinstall to test?
08:12	Yup works great now.
08:14	<ogra> dpkg -l openbsd-inetd ?
08:15	to me it seems like tftpd-hpa is doing something nasty
08:16	<Blinny> ii openbsd-inetd 0.20050402-6 The OpenBSD Internet Superserver
08:18	<ogra> hmm, seems all fine
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08:20	<Blinny> Perhaps something is borked from so many upgrades. I'm still seeing symptoms of https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/196706 even though my ltsp-server-standalone is 5.0.40~bzr20080212-0ubuntu5 and you note the bug is fixed in 5.0.40~bzr20080212-0ubuntu4
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08:21	<Blinny> (though /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/configure-x.sh is set to /bin/bash)
08:26	<ogra> what exactly ?
08:27	tabs and friends should be expanded properly wth bash
08:27	*with
08:29	<Blinny> Let me boot to screen so I can examine xorg.conf on the client.
08:35	I'm sorry, it's not the same bug.
08:36	The only thing I notice weird is that there are no resolution parameters, but that's probably because of new XOrg stuff
08:38	<ogra> by default there are none
08:38	only if you add X_MODE_nn
08:38	<Blinny> Yeah. I added X_MODE_0=1024x768 and still no booting.
08:38	BGomes has joined #ltsp
08:38	<Blinny> Anyway. I'll work on that.
08:38	Do you need me to do any testing re: tftpd-hpa ?
08:39	<ogra> can you add quotes around 1024x768 ?
08:39	that should work then
08:39	<Blinny> The xorg.conf has quotes without adding quotes to lts.conf
08:40	e.g. Modes "1024x768"
08:42	<ogra> you just said its not in xorg.conf
08:42	* ogra scratches head
08:43	<Blinny> That was before I added X_MODE_0
08:43	Apologies. I'll try to be more descriptive.
08:44	I'm adding a root pw in the chroot so I can get at the log files.
08:44	<ogra> ah, k
08:44	so X_MODE_0 works then
08:44	right ?
08:44	<Blinny> Yes.
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08:44	<ogra> phew :)
08:44	<Blinny> heh
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08:45	<Blinny> The reason I'm following this is because this is the same client that suddenly started working when I changed /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/lib/ltsp/configure-x.sh to /bin/bash
08:47	do I need to do anything other than chroot /opt/ltsp/i386; sudo passwd; ltsp-update-image to set up sudo stuff in the image?
08:47	<ogra> not sudo
08:48	sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd
08:48	that way round :)
08:48	and then indeed update the image
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08:48	<Blinny> Huh! Ok thanks lemme reboot the client.
08:54	I think something changed in xserver-xorg-video-intel
08:55	<ogra> definately
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08:55	<Blinny> That's just weird. XSERVER=vesa doesn't even work.
08:56	I wish I could give you more but I can't figure out how to log in as root on the client blush
08:57	Oh wait. I can less Xorg.1.log without being root
09:02	<gvy> ogra, if you will have some spare time, current to-merge branch mirrored to https://code.launchpad.net/~shigorin/ltsp/ltsp-alt
09:04	<ogra> not before release, sorry
09:04	<gvy> np, guessed that :)
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09:05	<Blinny> That's really weird.
09:06	After client boots, I can 'cd /etc/X11 && X -config xorg.conf' and get the grey screen w/ mouse X, but nothing in XSERVER= will work (tried intel, i810, vesa)
09:07	<Ryudo> Someone help me? My terminals are freezing when clients will see a PDF document or look a powerpoint presentation
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09:07	<ogra> Blinny, what dirver does X -config select ?
09:09	<Ryudo> ogra did you can help me ? :(
09:09	<Blinny> ogra: one second
09:10	<gvy> Ryudo, you need networked swap most likely
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09:10	<gvy> Ryudo, how much ram do you have in clients and what would "free" or "swapon -s" show on clients? (local login, not terminal one)
09:10	<Ryudo> my terminals have a celeron 333 + 64 mb ram , i using nbd swap 256 mb :(
09:11	<gvy> then seems like deadlocks...
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09:11	<gvy> we have solution for that, in altlinux-based ltsp
09:11	<Blinny> ogra: I'm confused - I need to give the xorg.conf to 'X -config' right?
09:11	<gvy> if downloading 2 gigs is not much trouble you can try this:
09:11	ftp://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/Linux/ALT/beta/school/terminal/terminal-20080408.iso
09:12	Ryudo, it's current image from a russian school linux project
09:12	<Blinny> ogra: and if so, then it selects whatever is in xorg.conf
09:12	<gvy> so it's somewhat gibbed to match school environment
09:12	<ogra> Blinny, -config writes a config
09:12	<gvy> *s/gibbed/bent/ :]
09:13	<Ryudo> gvy
09:13	<Blinny> ogra: Gotchya. it selects 'intel'
09:13	<Ryudo> this distro is based on ltsp 4.2 or 5 ?
09:14	ogra
09:14	in my clients i have 64 MB SDR
09:14	in my server (atlhon 3700+) i have 4 GB DDR 400
09:15	-/+ buffers/cache: 1173 2568
09:15	<gvy> Ryudo, it's a mix
09:15	<ogra> then you likely run out of ram for the xserver
09:15	64M and heavy pixmaps in openoffice dont go well together
09:15	<gvy> Ryudo, it uses nfsroot and xdmcp as ltsp4 but builds chroot from distro packages as ltsp5
09:15	<ogra> openoffice stores all pixmaps in the xserver
09:15	<gvy> and it's got quite a few fixes for low-ram problems
09:16	<ogra> in the most recent release, yes
09:16	<gvy> so it works on 16m and i'm sitting now with 64m
09:16	<ogra> same gores for firefox ... the unreleased verson should work :)
09:16	<gvy> for 18 days and 54m in the swap, currently. :)
09:16	<ogra> ff2 doesn really nasty things
09:16	<gvy> ogra, yup
09:17	<ogra> as oo.o 2.3 did
09:17	luckily at least that is fixed now :)
09:17	<Ryudo> ogra
09:18	<ogra> Ryudo, which distro and release is that ?
09:18	<Ryudo>
09:18	Then it is better I try to use the version of gvy ?
09:18	Ubuntu 7.04 LTSP 5
09:18	<gvy> i'm afraid pretty much anything w/o those patches by Peter Zijlkstra (or ancient ones)
09:19	Ryudo, well you can test that and tell me whether it fixes your woes
09:19	it has definitely helped ours
09:20	<ogra> Ryudo, or use ubuntu hardy (8.04) instead (which means to upgrade to 7.10 first)
09:20	it has all these fixes included
09:21	<gvy> ogra, kernel too? :)
09:21	<Ryudo> ograa
09:21	<Blinny> BRB
09:21	<Ryudo> in 8.04 version
09:21	<gvy> with 64m and stock ones? :)
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09:21	<Ryudo> my terminals wich 64 mb ram will working fine without frzee ?
09:22	<ogra> gvy, 64M works fine since the beginning
09:22	<gvy> well, mine does
09:22	<Ryudo> sorry i'm dont speak english :(
09:22	<ogra> gvy, (beyond these xserver/ff/oo.o bugs)
09:22	<gvy> ogra, good -- i was horrified to hear that "usual debian/ubuntu kernels are hard to boot with that"
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09:22	<gvy> ogra, well we all know and love those bugs :]
09:22	<ogra> who said that
09:23	down to 48M all is fine with ubuntu kernels
09:23	<gvy> ogra, hmmm... need to check with log, should i? (maybe you, that's why i was shocked)
09:23	vagrantc, ! :)
09:23	<ogra> 32M costed me some sweat to get working :)
09:23	<gvy> too much modules loaded indefinitely or too large kernel image?
09:23	<ogra> the smallest i have booted yet was MEM=28M
09:23	<gvy> vagrantc, in case: https://code.launchpad.net/~shigorin/ltsp/ltsp-alt
09:23	<ogra> the image is big
09:23	<gvy> ogra, we played down to 14m but that made no real sense
09:23	ah.
09:24	<ogra> once you have ehh image uncompressed there are no ram hogs
09:24	initramfs costs neary nothing
09:24	<gvy> that is there were no "shared ram" videocards with systems back then...
09:24	<ogra> the prob in ubuntu is the genric kernel image that really works on any hardware
09:25	i plan to convince our kernel tel with the next release to maintin an extra lowram package
09:25	s/tel/team/
09:25	<gvy> well, ours works on pretty any hw too
09:25	just is quite slim with stuff in all sorts of initrds all the way
09:26	but then our kernel team is awesome! :)
09:26	<ogra> with suspend resume on anykind of graphics device ... with a bootsplash that works on any arch ? etc etc
09:27	<gvy> ah, it's not about "works" for me
09:27	it's about "bells" :)
09:27	<ogra> right
09:27	<gvy> but then i don't really follow that part... heard that suspend is rather 50/50
09:27	<ogra> ubuntu is about "works out of the box everywhere"
09:27	<Ryudo> gvy
09:27	i try use your distro modificastion
09:27	modification
09:27	<ogra> which makes things like specifically patched kernel images politically compilcated
09:28	<gvy> Ryudo, so you got the wrong box for ubuntu :)
09:28	ogra, yeah, i do understand
09:28	a bit...
09:28	<ogra> but then i can guarantee security updates and fixes for 5 years through using that kernel and having a committed team behind it
09:29	thast a huge advantage
09:29	<gvy> thats a tradeoff
09:30	Ryudo probably won't need an update for kernel which won't run on his pretty beefy tc hw...
09:30	<ogra> not in business or school environments where you have 128M clients lyng around anywhere
09:30	well, Ryudo's problem is not kernel related
09:30	not at all :)
09:30	<gvy> well, the many sorts of linux distros are about that many tradeoffs -- and cover the ground pretty good imo :)
09:31	<Ryudo> my problem is memory on terminals
09:31	<gvy> ogra, ah.
09:31	ogra, i bet it is.
09:31	with our kernel he'd not deadlock, that is
09:31	<Ryudo> because power point apresetatios openoffice docs em pdf docs freeze the temrinal hehe
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09:31	<laga> parse error.
09:32	<Blinny> I can now say with some certainty that unbreakable X is broken in updated Hardy LTSP
09:32	<ogra> Ryudo, your problem is two bugs ... one in the xserver (that is just accepts all input it gets blindly into ram) and one in openoffice (that it stores its pixmaps where it does and doesnt free up ram afterward)
09:32	<gvy> Ryudo, your problem is oo/ff blowing pixmaps into xserver which takes more ram, then swap, then you catch a deadlock due to nfs/nbd/network stack needing temporary ram but there's ram shortage "right now"
09:32	<ogra> Blinny, ltsp never used unbreakable X :)
09:32	<Blinny> ogra: Three different clients, three different video cards / xservers - all get blank screen
09:33	<gvy> ogra, and another in kernel... which isn't suited for net swap atm
09:33	<Blinny> This is post-splash
09:33	<ogra> gvy, ??
09:33	<Ryudo> ogra this is it
09:33	<ogra> gvy, we defult to nbd swap since feisty
09:33	<gvy> ogra, vanilla kernel is known deadlocky
09:33	<ogra> which is ... uhm, since a year
09:34	<gvy> and afair nbd upstream (Pavel?) didn't recommend using it for swap (due to kernel troubles)
09:34	ogra, we use nbd swap too
09:34	<Ryudo> i use 256 mb on nbd_swap
09:34	bu this not resolve my problem ehheeh
09:34	<ogra> indeed it doesnt
09:34	<gvy> as i've told one day switching nbd/nfs didn't really buy us a fortune with those deadlocks...
09:35	<ogra> it would probably work if you get in the gigabyte area :)
09:36	Ryudo, the bug wont just go away with a dfferent kernel, the amounts of ram the xserver claims due to that bug are hilarious
09:37	<Ryudo> hum :(
09:37	<ogra> only newer X firefox and openoffice will have the needed fixes
09:37	<Ryudo> well ... ubuntu hardy heron dont solve my problems right ? i need upgrade my terminal rams ?
09:37	<ogra> indeed you can influence when it crashes thouh having more ram ... but you wont get around that it crashes
09:38	hardy has the fixed firefox and openoffice
09:38	<Ryudo> :O
09:38	<ogra> and various ram related fixes in X
09:38	<Ryudo> the pixmaps not sotared on my temrinal ram rigght ?
09:39	<ogra> gvy, does your iage have ff3 beta and oo.o 2.4 ?
09:39	<gvy> ogra, FOR US IT DID GO AWAY
09:39	ogra, no ff3 but we tried ff2 with openbsd malloc
09:39	<ogra> ah
09:39	<gvy> helped somewhat but at least kpdf would freeze tc
09:39	<ogra> so you patched the respective apps
09:39	<gvy> nope
09:40	we know about LD_LIBRARY_PATH :)
09:40	<ogra> eeek
09:40	<gvy> so i just packaged it and we ran ff under a wrapper
09:40	<ogra> shudder
09:40	<gvy> (in a harsh voice) there are no n00bs over here!
09:40	:)
09:40	<Ryudo> Then the hardy ubuntu heron is the solution of my problems correct?
09:40	<ogra> but you have a) users and you need to maintain that
09:40	<gvy> Ryudo, well, you'd better try that too and compare/report yourself
09:41	<ogra> right, if you have the time, try both
09:41	<Blinny> ogra: I can now say with some certainty that it is LDM_DIRECTX=true that is causing all my clients to break. Commenting that out makes them suddenly work.
09:41	<ogra> and choose yourself
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09:41	<Ryudo> hum
09:41	<ogra> gvy, we dont do such stuff in ubuntu since we learned that its not maintainable
09:41	<Ryudo> gvy your distro is so biggest O_o
09:41	2.4 gb
09:41	<ogra> if you have free manpower thats indeed different
09:42	<gvy> Ryudo, re upgrade ram: another colleague would work on 128m ram but would bite that bullet :(
09:42	<Blinny> ogra: Want me to file a bug about this?
09:42	<gvy> before anti-deadlock patches
09:42	much more rare but rather daily
09:42	ogra, well, we dropped that too
09:42	<ogra> Blinny, yes, please
09:42	<gvy> that was an experiment, after all
09:43	<ogra> Blinny, i just noticed it too
09:43	<gvy> (local, not distro-wide)
09:43	<Blinny> heh
09:43	* ogra goes afk to debug that
09:43	* gvy sends major luck to ogra!
09:44	<Ryudo> gvy
09:44	<Blinny> ogra: wait
09:44	ogra: It's not LDM_DIRECT
09:44	<Ryudo> this distro (2.4Gb) is ubuntu based distro ?
09:44	<ogra> Blinny, but ?
09:44	<Blinny> ogra: Crap yes it is.
09:44	haha sorry
09:46	<ogra> its pretty sure the new xauth handling
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09:47	<gvy> Ryudo, it isn't
09:47	<Blinny> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/215727
09:48	<ogra> gracias
09:48	<gvy> Ryudo, it's not even deb-based :)
09:48	<Blinny> No, thank YOU
09:49	<gvy> re 2g -- i can wrap it in under 700m cd but the purpose of that dvd image is exactly to hold all the needed educational software
09:50	* gvy is busy reworking image profile and installer components... raid autosetup is basically there
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10:57	<Ryudo> gvy
10:57	look this
10:57	http://www.mille-xterm.org/en/Terminal_Memory_Usage
10:57	<gvy> Ryudo, yeah?
10:57	<Ryudo> this explain the problem
10:57	my problem
10:57	:(
10:59	<gvy> Ryudo, well we with ogra told that a few hours ago
10:59	<Ryudo> yes
10:59	<gvy> just disagreed on what the fix is -- sort of :)
10:59	<Ryudo> but sorry me english is soo bad ehehe
10:59	<gvy> he tells the right thing in that if apps behave properly, there's no problem
10:59	<Ryudo> in openoffice 2.4 and firefox 3 the problem wich pixmpas has fixed ?
11:00	<gvy> i tell that unfortunately there's always some bad ass that will freeze up the terminal...
11:00	so the kernel should be ass-proof better
11:00	<Q-FUNK> that reminds me: we haven't seen fgiraldeau in ages
11:01	<ogra> Q-FUNK, he is alive i have exchanged some mails
11:01	Blinny, first half of the bug fix is installing bsdmainutils in the chroot
11:01	<Ryudo> gvy i understand
11:02	<ogra> i'm not yet sure why the cookie isnt transfered to the session though
11:03	<Ryudo>
11:03	Gvy imagine the following situation, as we can take old computers (pentium 233 +32 mb) is the bug of pixmaps will always hangs them?
11:03	<gvy> Ryudo, so in the perfect world (just a few years later?) we'll probably end up with properly behaving oo/ff/toolkits, netswap-resistant kernel and 256m per thin client
11:03	<Q-FUNK> ogra: that's nice to hear :)
11:04	<gvy> Ryudo, we actually used p166/32 for school project demo
11:04	and a modern TC
11:04	and the image i linked to will boot 16m clients (without usb flash support, but with sound)
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11:07	<Ryudo> humm gvy you distro have de fix for pixmaps problem correct ?
11:07	i hate google translate ! :(
11:07	<gvy> Ryudo, yes
11:07	Ryudo, and i don't speak portuguese as well :(
11:07	<Ryudo> have suport for portuguese-brasil language ? use gnome ?
11:08	:(
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11:08	<gvy> Ryudo, but that snapshot is school-specific... i didn't get around yet to do RC2 of "generic" one
11:08	it's kde-based, and i'm afraid pt_BR is not specifically supported as well
11:09	<Ryudo> kde have good suport for portguese - brasil
11:09	:D
11:09	<gvy> that was part of the reason to ask "is 2gb a problem" and suggest that you also try ubuntu 8.04 as ogra's told, too
11:11	<Ryudo> i try gvy
11:11	but
11:11	<gvy> altlinux is quite into ex-USSR... there's lot of difference if you can focus on Russian language and NO SOFTWARE PATENTS :)
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11:12	<gvy> so it's not universal
11:12	<Ryudo> I was disappointed with the gutsy ltsp
11:12	:) oh good ehehe
11:12	<gvy> well, that's development i think
11:13	and tradeoffs
11:13	<Ryudo> the ltsp gutsy version on my laboratory no working well
11:13	<ogra> ex-USSR ....
11:13	* ogra shakes head
11:13	<gvy> ogra, well, ex-USSR
11:13	<ogra> Ryudo, did you file bugs so we know about it and had a chance to fix the issues in hardy ?
11:14	<gvy> oh
11:14	<Ryudo> Half of the terminals could not begin the boot process
11:14	<ogra> gvy, isnt tha called GUS for political correctness ? :)
11:14	<gvy> i think it's all way too well-known a pile of bugs :(
11:14	ogra, erm... CIS, probably, dunno
11:14	* gvy isn't into political, especially correctness
11:14	<ogra> gvy, well, i have about 20 whishlist bugs left for hardy and some that arent fixable in a nonintrusive way
11:15	* vagrantc stares in awe that ltsp, ldm and ltspfs are all in sync between unstable and testing on lenny
11:15	<gvy> ogra, i guess
11:15	vagrantc, all your fault? :)
11:15	<ogra> so most bugs that were reported should be fixed
11:15	<Ryudo> ogra the pixmaps fix is include in new versions of firefox and openoffice or this fix's is maked for ubuntu's team ?
11:15	<ogra> if people dont report them i cant help it
11:15	<vagrantc> gvy: i've definitely worked hard to get it to that point.
11:15	<gvy> really great
11:16	<vagrantc> it's actually working well in both testing and unstable for once.
11:16	<ogra> Ryudo, its in firefox 3 and openoffice 2.4
11:16	<gvy> vagrantc, i'm going to upload 5.1.2-based in our testing branch today, too :)
11:16	(already in unstable)
11:16	<Ryudo> cool !
11:16	kpdf has this bug too !
11:16	<ogra> vagrantc, did you have to add bsdmainutils to ldms deps for the xauth fix ?
11:16	<Ryudo> his make cache too :(
11:16	<vagrantc> i intend to make new uploads of ldm, ltspfs and ltsp by the end of the month, to start the cycle all over again. :)
11:16	<gvy> vagrantc, and led's redone "local" part over r688 (ltsp-vendor-functions): https://code.launchpad.net/~shigorin/ltsp/ltsp-alt
11:17	you're very welcome to have a look :)
11:17	<ogra> vagrantc, i just stumbled over a non installed hexdump here
11:17	<vagrantc> ogra: no, but i'd be surprised if bsdmainutils wasn't already installed.
11:17	<ogra> we dont use it in ubuntu
11:17	<gvy> Ryudo, well you can try to fiddle with some things like swappiness (to shift the point where the kernel begins to soft-swap) but that only postpones the freeze moment :(
11:18	<Ryudo> the solution is so simple
11:18	dont view pdf documents on terminal
11:18	aahahah :(:(:(:(
11:19	<ogra> Ryudo, what about other pdf viewers ?
11:19	<vagrantc> ogra: i think technically we should add a dependency, as it's only priority important.
11:19	Q-FUNK has quit IRC
11:19	<ogra> i havent heard any complaints abpit evince for example
11:19	*about
11:19	<Ryudo> evince
11:19	<gvy> or gv
11:19	<Ryudo> freeze terminal too :D
11:20	<ogra> Ryudo, thats very bad, nobody filed a bug
11:20	<Ryudo> ow O_o
11:21	evince use pixmaps too, i test here
11:21	in very pdf file wick many pictures
11:21	<vagrantc> ogra: i'll add a bsdmainutils dep on my next upload... although recommends might be acceptible.
11:21	<Ryudo> my terminal freeze :(
11:21	<vagrantc> ogra: since it's not a deault feature.
11:22	<ogra> shriek !!!!
11:22	grmbl
11:23	* ogra headdesks a bit
11:23	* vagrantc wonders what happened to packages.ubuntu.com
11:23	<Ryudo> ogra an gvy see that
11:23	evince use pixmaps cache too
11:23	http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=469909
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11:23	<vagrantc> pixmap caching is the bane of ltsp.
11:23	why did it suddenly become such a disaster?
11:23	<gvy> Ryudo, http://kerneltrap.org/Linux/Swap_Over_NFS
11:23	* ogra got trapped by the silly switch from /usr/chare/ldm to /usr/lib/ldm ....
11:23	<ogra> grmbl
11:24	<vagrantc> ogra: oh, yeah, that'll mess you up good.
11:24	<Ryudo> many of my terminal has 1 mb of video memory
11:24	this is a big problem too ?
11:24	<gvy> ogra, ah, i just fixed today similar trouble after s\|/var/lib/ltsp5\|/var/lib/ltsp\|g here :)
11:24	banged my head against the wall yesterday too (a bit)
11:24	<Ryudo> gvy i use nbd swap
11:24	i set 256 mb
11:25	<gvy> Ryudo, no if you're OK with 800x600, 16 bit
11:25	<Ryudo> but this dont solve nothing ::D
11:25	<gvy> Ryudo, swap size doesn't matter much for that deadlock...
11:25	<Ryudo> i use 24 bit O_O
11:25	<gvy> it's 640x480 iirc
11:25	<Ryudo> sorry gvy
11:25	<gvy> at most
11:25	<vagrantc> ogra: i had to re-work a lot of the ldm packaging.
11:25	ogra: not sure how big our diff is
11:27	<Ryudo> Deadlock is the lack of memory in the terminal due to the use of excessive cache of pixmaps?
11:28	<ogra> oh crap
11:28	vagrantc, where is LDMINFO_IPADDR coming from usually ?
11:28	<vagrantc> ogra: i think it's set within ldm itself.
11:29	<ogra> hmm
11:29	exported ?
11:29	<Ryudo> gvy i have other question
11:29	<vagrantc> yes
11:29	<gvy> Ryudo, why sorry :) yes, it is
11:29	<Ryudo> did you can help again ?
11:29	<gvy> well try
11:30	<Ryudo> my server processor (Atlhon 3700+ 2.2ghz)
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11:30	<Ryudo> the firefox and nautilus-bin conome 100%
11:30	all time
11:31	45% firefox 55% nautilus (15 temrinals)
11:31	its normal ?
11:31	i need urgent upgrade for a dual or quad core processor O_o
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11:32	<gvy> Ryudo, mmm... adobe flash?
11:32	Ryudo, we ran 10 clients on 1700+/1G
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11:32	<Ryudo> O_o
11:32	<gvy> (with icewm, seamonkey, openoffice)
11:32	<Ryudo> you use firefox 2 and kde right ?
11:33	humm seamonkey have de pixmaps bug on the original version ?
11:33	<gvy> i ran 23 clients recently on 8 cores and 8 gigs, and load was rather invisible (~1G ram was used)
11:33	(this was yes, ff2/kde)
11:33	<vagrantc> gvy: all looks mergeable, considering it's all altlinux specific. :)
11:33	<gvy> vagrantc, please? :)
11:34	vagrantc, btw today it's led's bday -- found out by unusual call density :)
11:34	(he came to us last may)
11:34	<vagrantc> gvy: wish led well, then!
11:34	<gvy> vagrantc, i will :)
11:34	btw was really pleased to see you folks on (jammcq's?) presentation
11:35	<vagrantc> in brazil?
11:35	<Ryudo> i from brazil
11:35	fisl 9 ?
11:35	<gvy> vagrantc, mmm... don't know
11:35	Ryudo, seamonkey behaved a bit better on _server_ ram but i think is the same on _client_ X server
11:35	it didn't matter there
11:35	<Ryudo> omg uhauha
11:35	<vagrantc> gvy: well, jammcq has done a few presentations over time, so i don't know which you mean :)
11:36	<Ryudo> :( firefox and based browser dont like thinclients :(
11:36	<vagrantc> gvy: one thing i'm wondering ... why use ltsp-build-client.conf instead of a plugin to set the defaults?
11:38	gvy: merged and pushing.
11:38	<johnny> hi guy
11:38	guys*
11:40	<gvy> vagrantc, TNXe6 :)
11:41	vagrantc, i'll pass the log to led so he can take that into account or explain a reason
11:41	s/ a / the /
11:41	<johnny> hey!....
11:41	<gvy> halo johnny!
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11:42	* johnny slaps vagrantc with a trout
11:44	<gvy> Ryudo, well, so far we live in an imperfect world
11:44	albeit a beatiful one
11:46	<Ryudo> well its true :(
11:46	* vagrantc dodges the fish
11:46	<Ryudo> pherhaps in ubuntu hardy heron ... my word turn better :(
11:46	omfg
11:46	world not word
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11:47	<vagrantc> johnny: is that it? one trout? hah!
11:48	<johnny> hehe
11:49	you back at the haunt yet?
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11:53	<NewIrish> Hi folks, I'm new to LTSP, wondering if it is possible to set up an LTSP server to act as a master DHCP Server on an existing LAN. Reason being, there are a few Windows boxes lying around the place that have not yet been gotten rid of!
11:53	<Blinny> NewIrish: Yes.
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11:53	<Blinny> NewIrish: LTSP servers use the same dhcpd that is packaged with the major distros. Therefore, you can tweak it to hand out leases on separate interfaces for separate subnets, as you like.
11:54	<Frogbarf> I have a remote X session open and enabled "networked sound" in kde on both machines but still get no sound on the machine I am sitting at. Is there something I am missing?
11:55	<NewIrish> Blinny, thanks for the prompt response.
11:55	I am a bit new to LTSP and networking in general, so if you can give any hints or weblinks as to how to setup the dhcpd.conf file for this?
11:57	<gvy> NewIrish, man dhcpd.conf has usually served me the best :)
11:57	i think there's DHCP-HOWTO either
11:57	<NewIrish> Frogbarf, what VNC client are you using to get remote X session?
11:57	gvy, where might I find that?
11:57	<Frogbarf> none. I am logged into X remotly on port 6001 to the local machine
11:57	<gvy> NewIrish, i think he uses _remote X session_, not VNC :) X is network transparemt
11:58	<Frogbarf> no vnc
11:58	<NewIrish> Ah, just showed my NooB ness
11:58	<gvy> NewIrish, type "man dhcpd.conf<enter>" in a sort of teminal (e.g. konsole or xterm)
11:58	<NewIrish> oh well!
11:58	<Blinny> NewIrish: 'man' means 'manual', as in 'show me the manual on _____'
11:58	<gvy> NewIrish, why, if one works a lot with vnc/rfb it's easy to miss or forget that :)
11:58	<Frogbarf> sound is coming out of the machine I am connected to. I want it on the one i am sitting at
11:58	<NewIrish> I'm not that new!
11:59	<Blinny> Just making sure.
11:59	<NewIrish> No probs!!
11:59	<gvy> /nick OldIrish
11:59	<NewIrish> Should be I supppose!
11:59	<gvy> Frogbarf, is pulseaudio supposed to be in use?
11:59	<ogra> Frogbarf, which distro/ltsp version ?
12:00	<Ryudo> ogra in firefox 3 beta 5 the pixmaps bug has solved ?
12:00	<Frogbarf> suse 10.3
12:00	<gvy> at least here it's set up via $ALSA_CONFIG_PATH pointing to pa-enabled alsa config
12:00	<ogra> since beta 3 i think
12:00	<Frogbarf> not sure what pulse audio is. This is a homesetup
12:00	using alsa
12:00	<ogra> Frogbarf, which distro/ltsp version ?
12:00	<Ryudo> hum thx
12:00	<ogra> each distro implements sound slightly differently n ltsp
12:01	<gvy> Frogbarf, you probably want pulse... i can lend you altlinux configs for suse
12:01	ogra, he told opensuse 10.3 :)
12:01	<NewIrish> Guys, cheers..
12:01	<ogra> oh, k
12:01	<gvy> cyberorg might know, eh?
12:01	<Frogbarf> will it mess up my alsa?
12:01	<gvy> Frogbarf, not neccessarily :)
12:01	<Frogbarf> I'll investiget it
12:01	<johnny> so.. why is pulse configured in the initscripts from ltsp?
12:02	instead of from the distro?
12:02	<Frogbarf> found information on it. thanks
12:03	<ogra> johnny, way too many differences to default configs, we should have an overlay config option or so included upstream
12:03	so we only need to maintain the config file
12:03	i admit the current way in the initscript is very ugly
12:04	<gvy> Frogbarf, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~shigorin/ltsp/ltsp-alt/annotate/ledest%40gmail.com-20080411124335-8h1lwl1ymxbi18k8?file_id=asoundpulse.conf-20080325170908-wg6j09shmin49vy1-2
12:04	<johnny> doing overlay with tpmfs/unionfs should be easy right?
12:04	<ogra> patches gracefully accepted :)
12:04	<NewIrish> blinny & gvy, can you tell me is it possible to set subnet pools in dhcpd based on whether the client asks for a kernel or not?
12:04	<Frogbarf> thanks
12:04	<ogra> ugh, on fs level
12:04	nah, thats to complex
12:04	<gvy> umm...
12:04	NewIrish, i'm afraid the mac<->ip binding comes first
12:05	<NewIrish> yeah, i figured it would have to be the hard way
12:05	you see, it's a school i'm configuring this for
12:05	* gvy . o O ( the other hard way around )
12:05	<NewIrish> explain?
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12:05	<gvy> nevermind... i'm sort of a junkie, not a developer
12:05	<NewIrish> yeah, me too.
12:06	so basically, each machine needs a set ip address on the network?
12:06	ok, different question.
12:07	<ogra> johnny, i havent touched the sound code over a year an i think nobody else has ... it could well need an overhaul
12:07	<Ryudo> ogra i'm downloading openoffice 2.4 and FF 3 beta 5 to try fix the freezings here ehehe
12:07	<NewIrish> I had my vista laptop connected to ltsp server. it could see the server, but was not able to see outside the subnet, to say, www.google.com??
12:08	<Frogbarf> where do I put that file once I install pulse?
12:08	<gvy> Ryudo, luck!
12:08	<Frogbarf> does it go in /etc/pulse or something
12:08	<Ryudo> o gvy i need much luck hehe
12:08	:(
12:08	<gvy> Ryudo, also google XRAMPERC
12:08	<NewIrish> any way to set up the ip settings on the windows box to use ltsp server as a "router"
12:08	<ogra> Ryudo, you will also need new xorg and whatnot ...
12:08	gvy, nothing feisty had
12:08	<Ryudo> this kill app when the memory full on 80% ?
12:09	<ogra> xramperc was only added in gutsy
12:09	<gvy> seems it recently got back... a critical thing of those half-hearted ones in this case
12:09	<Gadi> NewIrish: option routers in dhcpd.conf (then you need to set up NAT and routing on the ltsp box
12:09	<gvy> Frogbarf, here it would be in /usr/share/ltsp/alsa-pulse.conf
12:09	<NewIrish> gadi: thanks!
12:09	<Frogbarf> thanks
12:09	<Ryudo> new xorg to use xrampc right ? but wich ooo 2.4 and ff 3 i fix the freeze correct ?
12:09	<gvy> ogra, ugh -- too bad it fell out somehow in the first place
12:09	<Frogbarf> I think i'll get it working
12:10	<gvy> Ryudo, xramperc is a variable defining a limit of ram for x server
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12:10	<NewIrish> any tips on setting up NAT and routing Gadi? on the ltsp box? is the software included as standard you think? my distro is K12 LTSP, CentOS 5.
12:10	<Ryudo> humm present only gutsy version right ?
12:10	<ogra> gvy, well, it is a very bad workaround for a userspace application problem
12:11	i usually rather fix the problem than the symptom
12:11	<gvy> what helped me to get ltsp4.2's sound working was borrowing my laptop and sitting in the office at the terminal for 3 days
12:11	<ogra> really ?
12:11	its only esd ...
12:12	<Gadi> NewIrish: 1. sudo echo "1" >/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
12:12	<gvy> ogra, well, i know -- but fixing all the problems is next to impossible i'm afraid
12:12	<Gadi> 2. edit /etc/sysctl.conf to make that permanent
12:12	<gvy> ogra, yeah -- somehow it would only listen to localhost or sort of, don't remember...
12:12	<Gadi> 3. sudo iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE
12:12	<gvy> the point is "when you sit at that yourself you're the most motivated" :D
12:12	<ogra> well, if i would go with such an attitude i would probably stop doing OSS work
12:13	<Gadi> 4. In dhcpd.conf, add "option routers <ip of thin client interface of ltsp box> ;"
12:13	5. restart dhcpd.conf
12:13	<ogra> all bugs we have today can be fixed at some point in the future if we care for them
12:13	<Gadi> 6. do a google on editing /etc/network/interfaces to restore iptables on boot
12:13	<ogra> its a matter of manpower and willingness
12:13	<gvy> ogra, if the issue which was mitigated a bit by xramperc would bite you while doing presentation... i think you'd look a bit differently at it...
12:14	<NewIrish> gadi, fantastic stuff, i really appreciate your help!!
12:14	<Gadi> np
12:14	<Ryudo> gadi :D hi
12:14	<Gadi> :)
12:14	<Ryudo> do you remember me ?
12:14	* Gadi waves to ryudo
12:14	<ogra> i wouldnt do a presentation without xramprc today
12:14	thas why we added it
12:14	<gvy> we had to stick another 64m into a friend's terminal so he'd only reset every 6--8 hours, not every half an hour back then...
12:14	<Blinny> NewIrish: Or, if you're on Ubuntu, you can simply 'sudo aptitude install ipmasq' and it will do all that for you.
12:14	<ogra> but that doesnt mean that i'm happy about the code
12:14	<gvy> ogra, yeah, i guess
12:14	<Gadi> Ryudo: can't be from brazil
12:14	(never been)
12:14	<Ryudo> yes :D
12:14	<Gadi> :D
12:14	<Ryudo> from brazil
12:14	<gvy> ogra, well i'll try to do what at least i can :)
12:15	<Ryudo> the man of evil pendrivers
12:15	:(
12:15	<Gadi> ah, yes
12:15	the unpartitioned ones
12:15	<Ryudo> yes
12:15	normal pendrivers use for example /dev/sda1 and mp3 players and others use only /dev/sda this is the problem ehehe
12:16	but i test you fix and dont work ehehe
12:16	<Gadi> I have some code to make that work - but I haven't had a chance to clean it up and submit it
12:16	<gvy> it depends
12:16	<ogra> gvy, the thing is, if the two to five days of work needed to figure out xramperc and the days of maintenance to adapt it from version to version would have been invested to fix X ram handling that would have been way more effective
12:16	<Gadi> Ryudo: right
12:16	<Ryudo> in hardy heron this fixed ?
12:16	<ogra> and would have helped other apps as well
12:16	<Gadi> I since then have had an unpartitioned drive to test with
12:16	<gvy> pens can be unpartitioned, players can have those...
12:16	<NewIrish> Blinny, I'm on CentOS, can i do something similar with yum?
12:16	<gvy> ogra, umm... i can fix shell but not lowlevel c code
12:16	<NewIrish> I can always find the ipmasq package / source out there?
12:17	<Gadi> Ryudo: not hardy - and my fixes are always shameful hacks that are meant to inspire
12:17	<Ryudo> i dont have unpartitioned pendrive here to teste :(
12:17	<Gadi> doubt it would pass muster for inclusion
12:17	<gvy> so i'm generally happy to do bunch of shell for someone to help them do some c for me :)
12:17	<ogra> gvy, but you cn work together with an X programmer who can ;)
12:17	<gvy> these two days it was splitting installer into lots of hook packages
12:17	ogra, well, our cto can :)
12:18	and he almost did get into the fight
12:18	back then...
12:18	but i've spotted zijlstra's kernel patches and led's used them
12:19	<Ryudo> hum offialy ltsp don have support to mount unpartitioned devices like a mp3players correct ?
12:19	<gvy> i think that if we've spent all the effort on helping peter to push them into vanilla... that'd be much better too
12:19	but who knew
12:19	Ryudo, hm, ours does iirc
12:19	<ogra> gvy, i'll surely bug you about all your patches in intrepid ...
12:19	<gvy> :D
12:19	ogra, welcome
12:20	<NewIrish> Thanks for all the help, arrivederci!
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12:48	<moa_> Hey all
12:51	<Ryudo> ltsp 5 (hardy heron) suport cluster feature ?
12:52	<moa_> Quick question, what's the best way to view/record the thin clients screen?
12:54	<johnny> italc maybe?
12:54	it'll view.. not sure about record
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13:21	* gvy is away: ~
13:21	<gvy> /home/sweet/home
13:22	bb!
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13:49	<ogra> Blinny, fixed :)
13:50	vagrantc, did you test ltspfs with the fixed xauth ?
13:50	with the current add/remove_fstab_entry it cant work
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13:54	<Blinny> ogra: You are teh awesome.
13:58	<ogra> well, it exposed another prob with ltspfs
13:58	so i'm not done yet
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14:04	<vagrantc> ogra: works for me.
14:05	ogra: what sort of problem are you encountering?
14:05	ogra: and what are you working on updating?
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14:08	<vagrantc> ogra: i.e. are you testing what's currently in hardy, are you working on updating ldm or ltspfs or something else?
14:08	mccann_ is now known as mccann
14:10	<vagrantc> ogra: looks like hardy's ltspfs version is older than lenny
14:13	<remitaylor> anyone run into issues where a thin client will start to boot and then re-dhcp (to a different dhcp server, for instance ... my gateway instead of my ltsp server) ... and then drop to busybox?
14:13	<vagrantc> ogra: though the diff in ltspfs versions is minimal ...
14:14	remitaylor: having two dhcp servers on the same network is asking for headaches.
14:15	* Blinny twiddles his thumbs while custom-building an entire kernel just to update one module.
14:15	<Blinny> Thanks, Michael Dell.
14:15	ya boob
14:15	<remitaylor> vagrantc: what's the conventional way to add an ltsp server to an existing LAN (with a dhcp-ing gateway)?
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14:16	<vagrantc> remitaylor: simplest method is to have two network cards on your server- one for the thin client network and one for access to the rest of your network.
14:17	remitaylor: or configure your DHCP server to hand out information needed by LTSP ... which shouldn't be hard if it's a linux box, but if it's a hardware router, that's often very difficult.
14:18	<remitaylor> vagrantc: i've tried that but i don't think it'll do me any good because, in my use-case, i want the terminals on the same subnet as the rest of my LAN so thin clients and full workstations all live peacefully together
14:18	<vagrantc> remitaylor: so then configure a single DHCP server.
14:19	<remitaylor> vagrantc: i've got a linux-based router ... might try that ... except it would have to differentiate between the terminals and the full workstations
14:19	<johnny> they will live together..
14:19	remitaylor, just dont' set those to start on boot
14:19	err do network boot
14:19	<vagrantc> remitaylor: why would it need to differentiate?
14:19	<remitaylor> ah. duh :P
14:19	<johnny> as long as they aren't setup to boot off the nic, it doesn't matter
14:20	your non thin client machines
14:20	<remitaylor> thanks - trying it now. lookin around my router for its dhcpd.conf :)
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14:21	<ogra> vagrantc, with LDM_DIRECTX it doesnt get any display so it cant get the token
14:22	<johnny> so.. what are we gonna do about the LDM_SESSION variances ogra, vagrantc
14:22	<ogra> LDM_SESSION should become a list of tuples ... name, executable
14:22	<johnny> if you're not going to do any significant reordering in the near term, will you add another special case for me?
14:22	<ogra> ldminfod can then fill that with the values it finds in the .desktop files
14:22	<johnny> in the elseif
14:23	so.. will that happen sooner? or later?
14:23	<ogra> not before intrepid from my side
14:24	deavid has joined #ltsp
14:24	<ogra> but if nobody else has done it until then, i'll do it
14:24	<johnny> so.. after the 24th :) lol
14:24	or 28.. i forget..
14:24	<ogra> dude, gimme some time to relax :)
14:24	<johnny> NEVER
14:24	hehe
14:24	<ogra> after UDS
14:24	<johnny> vagrantc, your take?
14:25	it's simple for me to just send you a patch to the elseif .. if it's goin to be longer than a few weeks
14:25	you can just rip it out later
14:25	* cliebow cliebow votes for alternate dhcp recognition in chroot 8~)
14:26	<ogra> cliebow, how do you mean ?
14:27	something else than ipconfig/dhclient ?
14:27	<cliebow> we used to use option 129 to tell the initramfs to look for dhcp on different port..
14:27	<ogra> heh
14:28	<cliebow> ive beenusing 1001/2 for etherboot..for like five years..
14:28	in 4.2
14:28	<ogra> cliebow, i guess you mean LP bug #198356
14:28	which was fixed two uploads ago
14:28	;)
14:28	* cliebow cliebow looks
14:28	<ogra> (send your beerboxes to laga)
14:29	<cliebow> i owe laga then...;-]
14:30	<ogra> DHCPPORT is a valid bootoption now :)
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14:30	<cliebow> WooT! on more bridge crossed
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14:31	<johnny> is that in initramfs-tools ?
14:31	<ogra> yep
14:31	<johnny> in debian?
14:31	<ogra> client/initramfs/scripts/ltsp_nbd
14:31	<johnny> or just ubuntu
14:31	oh.. that
14:32	<ogra> just ubuntu
14:32	<johnny> so.. initramfs didn't change
14:32	<cliebow> so an lts.conf entry?
14:32	<johnny> err initramfs-tools wasn't modified
14:32	<ogra> i'll merge upstream whats possible after release
14:32	cliebow, kernel bootoption
14:32	dhcpport=12345
14:32	<cliebow> ahhh..wunderbar..
14:33	gotta run..later..
14:33	cliebow has quit IRC
14:33	<johnny> hmm.. i wonder what i should do next..
14:34	everythign works with nfs root almost out of the box .. or at least as out of the box as is possible atm
14:34	<Gadi> a pint for all those working on releases!
14:35	<johnny> oh.. that's right.. i need to test sound
14:35	can't really test printing in vbox tho
14:35	:(
14:35	stupid no usb in oss version
14:36	<ogra> Gadi, i'm majorly encouraged, just got a new laptop :)
14:38	* Gadi is jealous as he sits on his 6-yr old P3
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14:39	<Gadi> ever notice how locking mechanisms usually wind up breaking things before they make them work? :)
14:39	but, its so rewarding if you get them working
14:40	<ogra> http://www.notebook-paradies.com/oxid.php/sid/20aabde96f6e962cf427a710a718794e/cl/details/cnid/34d47e3d0619f1822.57725514/anid/34d47e3d4a6795b25.82142690/<b>NEXOC-Osiris-S621---Tablet<_b>/
14:40	<Gadi> cute
14:40	<ogra> the touchscreen took me some hours ... and xrandr acts up ...
14:41	al the rest including suspen and hibernate works ootb
14:41	<Gadi> so, do you recommend it to a guy with a 6yr old P3 lappy?
14:42	<vagrantc> ogra: well, i don't know what's different on your setup- ltspfs works fine on debian lenny/sid.
14:42	<ogra> the keyboad could be better, but beyond that i have to admit ..... i'm in love :)
14:43	vagrantc, well, LDMINFO_IPADDR is definately been unset for me
14:43	my ldm checkout is pretty old
14:43	<vagrantc> ogra: unset where?
14:44	<ogra> the xauth rc.d script
14:44	<Gadi> btw, guys I worked around my encrypted nbd fs issues
14:44	its quite fun
14:45	* Gadi has to test if there are any performance hits
14:45	<vagrantc> ogra: what are you trying to do? backport stuff to your version or use the current version?
14:46	<ogra> i'm using my version and just noticed ltpfs in direct is borked
14:46	*directx
14:46	<vagrantc> you still using "-ac" ?
14:46	<ogra> nope
14:46	<vagrantc> ogra: ok, just for clarity, what versions of what are you using?
14:46	<ogra> i use the screen script changes and the rc.d script
14:47	and the code with dropped -ac
14:47	which works fine
14:47	beyond that, whatever was recent on 20080212
14:48	add_fstabentry has definately a prob with DISPLAY since it doesnt fnd one ....
14:49	<vagrantc> well, the debian versions are fairly close to *-trunk, and it works there.
14:49	<ogra> ssh -X gives you the wrong display
14:49	<vagrantc> works for me!
14:49	<ogra> and without -X you dont get one at all
14:51	i wonder how
14:51	logically it cant
14:51	<vagrantc> i don't think it needs the same xauth data, as the cookie is passed via X properties.
14:51	<ogra> ssh -X will give you localhos:something
14:51	<vagrantc> so as long as it gets a DISPLAY, it doesn't much matter.
14:52	<ogra> but the ltspfs token was dumped on <client>:6:0
14:52	<vagrantc> the ltspfs_token isn't tied to any display.
14:53	<ogra> xprop -root \|grep LTSP
14:53	do that on a client
14:53	<vagrantc> i get an LTSPFS_TOKEN(STRING) thingy.
14:54	using LDM_DIRECTX.
14:54	<ogra> right
14:54	but add_fstab_entry doesnt
14:54	at least for me
14:55	vagrantc, do you run ltspfsd with -a ?
14:56	<vagrantc> actually, maybe it is broken here too.
14:56	i have to do a clean install, because i've been messing with ltspfs a lot lately.
14:57	makghosh has quit IRC
14:57	<ogra> /usr/bin/ssh -X -S ${LDM_SOCKET} ${SERVER} \
14:57	"/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter ${MOUNTPOINT} add"
14:58	doesnt work for me
14:58	dropping -X and adding DISPLAY with the right value to the quoted command fixes it
15:00	i just dont have a clue where to get DISPLAY from ... its not in env
15:01	i know for sure which IP DISPLAY is on ... thats someting could code easily
15:01	but how do i get the actual display number without hving access to it ...
15:02	(and also do that in one line to get it past slangasek (vorlon))
15:05	<vagrantc> heh.
15:05	joebaker has joined #ltsp
15:06	<vagrantc> ogra: well, i'll experiment with it here and see.
15:06	i was sure i tested it before.
15:07	muh2000 has quit IRC
15:08	<ogra> ltspfsd requires the tokes which you can only get from the right display
15:08	we have SSH_CLIENT for the IP in env ...
15:08	but no number
15:09	<remitaylor> vagrantc & johnny ... you guys rock. up and running (had to setup my router's dhcp to hand out the right stuff). thanks :)
15:11	<^^Kilroy> would this be a good time to ask questions about working with an older ltsp version?
15:12	<ogra> vagrantc, eeek, who changed the hardcoded cdrom names ?
15:12	vagrantc, i get scsicd-cdrom ... which isnt recognized as cdrom anymore by gnome
15:15	<vagrantc> ogra: i don't think there was any changes in our code
15:15	ogra: regarding the changed names
15:17	<ogra> the python version had hardcoded names (resulting in /media/$user/cdrom)
15:17	since gnome matches by name that gave you the right icon
15:19	<vagrantc> python version of what?
15:19	oh, cdpinger?
15:19	then it's almost surely sbalneav
15:20	<ogra> yeah, i guess so
15:20	well, thats only consmetic
15:21	what worries me more is the auth stuff
15:22	i'm pondering to set the token from add_fstab_entry wirectly before the ltspfsmounter call
15:22	Üdirectly
15:22	and keep the -X
15:22	that way it should actually not matter if you use DIRECTX or not
15:23	i wonder why we have this xprop stuff at all ... all we want is to know the request originates from this machine
15:24	we could as well just hand out the cookie to ltspfsmounter ad commandline option and would lose a ton of overhead
15:24	s/ad/as/
15:25	(set-ltspfs-token could go at least)
15:27	<vagrantc> ogra: if you set it on the commandline, anyone on that machine could read it.
15:28	<ogra> ah, right
15:28	<vagrantc> unless it was stdin ...
15:28	<ogra> i knew there was a reason
15:28	<vagrantc> other than scotty's infatuation with x properties :)
15:28	<remitaylor> can an ltsp host have binary video drivers and/or compiz installed? my host has compiz ... i'm not interested in it for my thin clients, but my thin clients all can't start gnome ... .xsession-errors shows "Checking for nVidia: not present" ... "Starting Xgl with options: ..." ... "Fatal error" ... how can I keep my thin clients from trying to start Xgl and crapping out? :(
15:29	<vagrantc> ogra: confirmed the borkedness with LDM_DIRECTX and ltspfs...
15:29	<ogra> remitaylor, i think xgl reads a file in .config where you can disable it ... google might help here
15:30	<vagrantc> i know i tested it. what the heck changed.
15:30	<ogra> vagrantc, add DISPLAY=<your actual display value for the client>
15:30	to the ltspfsmouter line in add_fstab_entry
15:31	(and drop -X)
15:31	it should work then
15:33	<vagrantc> how does it work with -X when DISPLAY isn't set ?
15:33	<ogra> -X sets a display
15:33	<vagrantc> -X sets up a proxy ... but how does it figure out what to proxy to ?
15:34	<ogra> it attaches to the existing proxy if the socket connection had -X set
15:34	<vagrantc> ah, makes sense.
15:34	<ogra> which is not the case with directx
15:35	what we need to do is dump the actual DISPLAY somewhere in the client fs
15:35	s we can read and set it in add_fstab_entry
15:36	that way it wont matter if directx is set or not
15:37	<remitaylor> ogra: sweetness ... you just touch ~/.config/xserver-xgl/disable. thanks
15:38	<vagrantc> ogra: ah, now i see what's wrong.
15:38	<ogra> :)
15:38	vagrantc, tell me
15:38	(i need a tiny fix :/ )
15:38	<vagrantc> ogra: it's failing in the same way that it fails when we generate xauth and still use -X ... it's using the wrong xauth data.
15:39	<ogra> i just had to discuss a two liner for 30 min with vorlon
15:39	<vagrantc> i'm not sure about a fix...
15:39	<ogra> i fear a six liner
15:40	well, the fix is to let ltspfsmounter know fom withc display to retrieve the token
15:41	<vagrantc> correct.
15:42	ogra: just adding the DISPLAY and dropping -X wasn't enough ...
15:42	ah, have to do it from delayed-mounter
15:43	<ogra> well, i'm testing with cdrom
15:45	haha
15:45	<vagrantc> well, what an ugly mess we have.
15:46	<ogra> hmm
15:46	sad
15:46	doing a ck-list-sessions actually returns a display
15:46	muh2000 has joined #ltsp
15:46	<ogra> but obviously thats another app that leaves cruft around on logout :/
15:47	sigh
15:47	i get 5 sessions where i sould have two
15:48	<vagrantc> basically, we have to stash the display somewhere if LDM_DIRECTX=true, and then have add_fstab_entry and rc.d/S10-delayed-mounter behave differently.
15:48	<ogra> damned, i thought i had found the first sane usecase for CK
15:48	<Gadi> stupid directx
15:49	<ogra> the problem is to get the display
15:49	dumping it somewhere and fixing the scripts is the trivial bit
15:49	* Gadi has been faking out ltspfs and ltspfsd for a while now
15:49	<Gadi> exporting fake DISPLAY vars and fake SSH_CONNECTION vars
15:49	:)
15:49	lol
15:49	<ogra> if you dont use -X ssh wont have DISPLAY in the environment
15:50	so just grabbing it over the socket doesnt work
15:50	<Gadi> you guys should try running ltspfs on the thin client along with ltspfsd
15:50	fun times
15:50	:)
15:50	<ogra> you are mad :)
15:50	<Gadi> it works - you just need to fake it out
15:50	:)
15:50	<ogra> heh
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15:52	<vagrantc> ogra: so if you had to spend 30 minutes on 2 lines of code changes, i'm guessing new versions are right out. :)
15:52	er, :(
15:53	<johnny> but why Gadi ?
15:53	Guaraldo has left #ltsp
15:53	* Gadi supports local devices through RDP, ICA, ...
15:53	<ogra> vagrantc, right, single line fixes and the like
15:53	<vagrantc> johnny: because Gadi is a mad scientist, doing things that would drive most mortals insane.
15:53	<Gadi> and I prefer ltspfs to autofs and friends
15:53	<ogra> dep changes are free :)
15:54	<jammcq> speaking of insane, should we discuss timing of the portland ltsp hackfest ?
15:54	<Gadi> and I don't have the skill or the beer to get ltspfs broken into two parts
15:54	:)
15:54	<jammcq> Gadi: you gonna join us out there?
15:54	<Gadi> definitely - schedule permitting :)
15:54	<jammcq> well, let's set the schedule, so it permits
15:54	<Gadi> never been to the left Portland before
15:55	<johnny> where are you Gadi ?
15:55	<Gadi> NYC
15:55	* vagrantc looks forward to welcoming everyone
15:55	<ogra> -me has no ok from canonical for ubuntulive yet (and it will still take some time i guess, registration just opened)
15:55	<johnny> aren't you forgetting the east coast...
15:55	<ogra> Gadi, its beautiful there
15:55	<johnny> i have hackfest space on the east coast :)
15:55	<jammcq> johnny: where are you?
15:55	<Gadi> johnny: where r u?
15:55	<johnny> baltimore,md
15:56	<Gadi> cool - thats like my back yard
15:56	<johnny> altho we need to upgrade our internet
15:56	<Gadi> thats where you move when you get tired of New Yorkes
15:56	*Yorkers
15:56	<johnny> i heard philly was the new new york
15:56	<Gadi> philly aint the new anything
15:56	<jammcq> johnny: you should plan on making it to our LTSP-BTS in late october or early november
15:56	* Gadi went to school in philly
15:56	<johnny> bts?
15:57	<jammcq> By-The-Sea
15:57	<johnny> oh
15:57	* vagrantc couldn't come up with an alternate acronym quick enough
15:57	<jammcq> an annual event where we get together, eat lobster, drink beer ,and watch gadi
15:57	* Gadi likes being watched
15:57	<jammcq> last year, we had a blast watching Gadi and Ragnar. very entertaining
15:57	<Gadi> thats watched jammcq not stalked - all right?
15:58	geesh
15:58	<jammcq> umm, as I recall, it wasn't ME doing the stalking
15:58	<Gadi> lol
15:58	<vagrantc> so, there's two ltsp pdx hackfest proposed date ranges ... one before/overlapping with oscon/ubuntulive and one one the weekend after. i know dberkholz can't make the earlier date.
15:59	i can make either.
15:59	<dberkholz> i'm definitely a minor player, though, so if before works out better for folks...
16:00	* jammcq likes the idea of starting on saturday or sunday at the beginning of Ubuntulive, and going till tuesday or so
16:00	staffencasa_ has joined #ltsp
16:00	<vagrantc> we can probably get free reign of freegeek saturday night till tuesday morning.
16:01	* jammcq likes free rain
16:01	<vagrantc> and probably a room to ourselves for much of saturday and/or tuesday
16:01	<Gadi> for the folks whose attendence at oscon/ubuntu live is mandatory, are weekdays cool?
16:02	i mean - dont they have to be somehwere on Mon/Tue?
16:02	* Gadi thinks of ogra
16:03	<vagrantc> Gadi: i'm just putting out what i can probably offer, and we'll figure out what works. i think eric harrison also has a space if different days are needed, and probably wouldn't mind asking.
16:03	<ogra> if i go i will likely have to work on 21st - 22nd
16:04	<Gadi> vagrantc: ah - I was thinking less of space and more of attendence
16:05	<vagrantc> 19th-21st is the saturday-monday before/overlapping with oscon/ubuntulive
16:06	can probably get space at freegeek any day for several hours at a time, but there will be other things going on... which is both good and bad.
16:07	but i'd like to get a rough idea of who and how many people might be going and when they can make it before trying to reserve the space.
16:09	<Gadi> well, right now I have the week pretty much open - so just count me in
16:09	<vagrantc> Gadi: before, after and during oscon ?
16:10	<Gadi> pretty much - I have no compulsion to be at either oscon or ubuntu live
16:10	will prolly take advantage while im there
16:10	but, no compulsory meetings
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16:11	<vagrantc> i also really like the idea of getting people over to freegeek while it's open and running... maybe even take a tour :)
16:11	<Gadi> ooh
16:11	I love tours
16:11	<vagrantc> can see how the robot army is coming.
16:12	<Gadi> ooh
16:12	I love robot armies
16:12	<remitaylor> anyone know a good way to detect if you're in a ltsp session versus on the local ltsp host?
16:12	<Gadi> echo $DISPLAY
16:12	<ogra> echo $LTSP_CLIENT
16:13	<Gadi> y'know - there's always someone
16:13	<ogra> heh
16:13	<vagrantc> if you're lucky, i'll even get reverend phil to do the tour
16:14	<remitaylor> LTSP_CLIENT looks like a winner. thanks. trying to auto-disable XGL if ltsp ... my .profile doesn't get run if XGL is enabled on a client ... need to find something that gets run before it tries to start XGL ...
16:15	<ogra> remitaylor, have a look at the /etc/X11/Xsession.d/88-ltsp-sound script ....
16:15	its a god example for such a thing
16:15	<remitaylor> ooooh, sneaky :)
16:15	<ogra> *good
16:16	* Gadi hates crappy USB CF adapters
16:17	<herson> jammcq: hi
16:17	* ogra just doesnt buy such things :P
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16:18	<jammcq> hello herson
16:18	hey guys, herson is working on slackware/ltsp integration
16:19	it would be great if he could join us as a regular here in #ltsp, but his english is a bit of a problem
16:19	he's from brazil, and I think other members of his team are also there
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16:22	<remitaylor> ogra: you friggin rock. works perfectly ... logging into a workstation gets me XGL, logging into a thin client disables it ... thanks :)
16:23	<vagrantc> herson: welcome!
16:23	<ogra> remitaylor, welcome :)
16:24	<vagrantc> is there still an #ltsp-br channel?
16:24	<jammcq> umm
16:24	yeah
16:24	but we aren't there
16:24	<herson> hi
16:24	<vagrantc> well, yeah. just wondering
16:24	<herson> i'm herw
16:24	staffencasa has joined #ltsp
16:24	<herson> sorry
16:24	<jammcq> and for someone to be successful at integrating, they REALLY need to be here in #ltsp
16:25	cuz this is where the action is
16:25	<vagrantc> several of the debian ltsp folks are brazillian, but they're not as active as before
16:25	jammcq: of course.
16:25	<herson> :)
16:26	<vagrantc> herson: otavio is one of them, but he's often very busy with other things.
16:26	BGomes has joined #ltsp
16:27	<herson> I know...
16:27	i also
16:27	i work with development web
16:27	<vagrantc> but it would be good to have slackware ltsp5 :)
16:28	<herson> and i very busy in my company
16:28	<vagrantc> when i feel like i have spanish down, i'll learn portuguese. :)
16:28	<herson> anage very well with more time to work with the port of slackware
16:28	* jammcq is working on learning portuguese now
16:28	<herson> manage very well with more time to work with the port of slackware
16:29	<BGomes> jammcq: :D
16:29	<vagrantc> so, with ubuntu, debian, fedora, opensuse ... and of course altlinux ... all we need is slackware :)
16:30	<herson> Bgomes is one of us
16:30	<jammcq> Boa tarde sinior Bgomes
16:30	<BGomes> vagrantc: What distro have suporte to jetpipe?
16:30	<herson> hehehe
16:30	very good your english
16:30	<BGomes> jammcq: In fisl I will say with u in portugues
16:30	<herson> :D
16:31	<jammcq> BGomes: i am looking forward to that
16:31	as always
16:31	izigo has joined #ltsp
16:31	<vagrantc> BGomes: well, in theory debian and ubuntu ... don't know if it's well tested recently.
16:32	BGomes: there is also a rewrite of jetpipe in C that sbalneav wrote
16:32	* muh2000 wishes that brasilian spoke spanish instead of portuguese :)
16:32	<herson> Slackware will have its ltsp, and the first presentation will be applicable in FISL
16:32	<BGomes> jammcq: At this year full ltsp-slackware guys go to FISL, and us will working to finish it
16:32	<jammcq> BGomes: muito bem
16:33	<herson> goodd!!!
16:33	:D
16:33	<BGomes> jammcq: heheh (Estou gostando do seu português)
16:33	<jammcq> ummm......
16:33	<herson> hehehee
16:34	<BGomes> jammcq: This is road map to port slack http://ltsp5.s1solucoes.com.br/
16:34	<vagrantc> klausade: so, in case you didn't catch it .. seems like localdevices are borked with LDM_DIRECTX ... Sigh
16:34	<herson> need work guys
16:34	<vagrantc> klausade: so i'll put off a backport till i get that working again.
16:34	<jammcq> eu entendu um pouco de portuguese
16:34	<izigo> i havent fully read how ltsp works. sorry. but if i want to run it to serve 15 klients who basicly just browse the web and use a email client (firebird and firefox). what kind of power do the server need?
16:34	<johnny> 98-0don't forget us..
16:34	<herson> estou vendo, você esta muito bem
16:35	jammcq: guys = galera
16:36	* jammcq has alot of language learning to do, before next wednesday
16:37	* BGomes can help you
16:37	<herson> jammcq: We will teach you, you can believe
16:38	jammcq: and you teach me, english, ok?
16:39	<BGomes> jammcq: Whe you come in at Porto Alegre tell me, I go to POA at 15/04
16:39	<jammcq> BGomes: I arrive at about 12:00 on 16/04. mfdutra will pick me up at POA
16:40	<herson> we go see you
16:40	in there
16:41	sorry, my english
16:41	hehe
16:41	<BGomes> jammcq: If you have time, us can working in ltsp there
16:42	<pscheie> izigo, I think a standard dual-core box with 2GB RAM would suffice
16:42	<herson> jammcq: scot no go to fisl?
16:42	<pscheie> although doing video might overwhelm it
16:42	<jammcq> herson: sorry, No scotty this year :(
16:43	<herson> :(
16:45	the next version of the slackware this being good
16:46	<izigo> pscheie thanks
16:46	deavid has quit IRC
16:46	<herson> and we work to ltsp in it
16:46	Gadi has left #ltsp
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16:46	<izigo> what kind of power does the client itself use? cause the computers that would serve as clients is actually pretty powerfull.. dualcore or dual cpu computers good to handle newer games.. wich sometimes has been allowed to be played :).
16:49	<vagrantc> izigo: typically, the client uses very little- almost all the work is done on the server.
16:50	izigo: it's not easy, but it is possible to run everything on the client.
16:50	bobby_C has quit IRC
16:51	<herson> jammcq: i'm go home
16:51	<jammcq> ok, ciao
16:52	debayan has joined #ltsp
16:52	<BGomes> jammcq: tchau :)
16:52	<debayan> Hi all
16:52	Anyone here from kiwi-ltsp??
16:52	BGomes has quit IRC
16:52	herson has quit IRC
16:52	<debayan> can someone point me to some nice and brief resource on how kiwi works??
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17:53	<opapo> I get a "invalid memory access" error when I am trying to boot
17:53	I have a server with Edubuntu
17:53	a client that I have installed Ubuntu
17:53	They are both powerpcs
17:54	yanu_ is now known as yanu
17:54	<opapo> I have followed the instructions at: http://wiki.ppckernel.org/w/Mac_Netboot
17:54	but can't boot
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19:09	<jummel> Morning All!
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19:11	<jummel> I have an LTSP client that connects to a TV using a special VGA to TV adapter
19:11	As a result, it missidentifies the correct resolutions to run at
19:11	I tried X_MODE_0 but that still doesn't force it to the correct value
19:12	is there a way to force it to the correct resolution?
19:13	<vagrantc> !question
19:13	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can. please also mention the linux distro and release you're using. :)
19:14	<jummel> distro: Sidux (debian) LTSP: 5
19:18	how do i force a client to a specific resolution?
19:18	<vagrantc> what release of debian is sidux based on?
19:18	X_MODE_0 is basically the way to do it.
19:18	jammcq has joined #ltsp
19:18	<vagrantc> you may have to specify X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC as well
19:19	<jummel> X_MODE_0 doesn't work
19:19	Iv'e tried that
19:19	<vagrantc> !ver
19:19	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp' \| awk '/^ii/{print $2 $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp' ldm \| awk '/^ii/{print $2 $3}'
19:19	<vagrantc> jummel: could you please paste that to the pastebot ?
19:20	!pastebot
19:20	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
19:20	<vagrantc> X_MODE_0 definitely does edit xorg.conf, but that may not be enough.
19:20	you may need to specify all three values.
19:21	jummel: do you have an xorg.conf that works with this setup?
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19:23	<ltsppbot> "jummel" pasted "versions" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/502
19:24	ogra has joined #ltsp
19:24	<jummel> how would I know is my xorg.conf works or not?
19:25	my LTSP server is also my normal desktop
19:25	<vagrantc> jummel: if you've installed from hard drive or run from a livecd ...
19:25	<jummel> no I run from harddisk
19:25	<vagrantc> jummel: do you have a working xorg.conf for your thin client?
19:26	<jummel> it works fine when plugged into a monitor
19:26	<vagrantc> ok.
19:27	have you ever gotten it to work with the VGA to TV adaptor, and if so, you could use that configuration for LTSP.
19:27	that's what i'm trying to get at here.
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19:29	<vagrantc> jummel: otherwise, play with X_MODE_0, X_VERTREFRESH and X_HORZSYNC till you get it right.
19:30	jummel: could you paste your lts.conf to the pastebot ?
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19:34	<jummel> the VGA to TV adaptor works, but at low res (800 x 600), which makes it all grainy. The adaptor reckons it can handle up to 1280x1024 so it shouldn't have any trouble with 1024x768 which is what I want
19:35	<ltsppbot> "jummel" pasted "lts.conf" (21 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/503
19:37	<vagrantc> jummel: you want to reverse the order of the X_MODE_# entries
19:37	jummel: otherwise you may get a virtual screen size larger than the physical screen size.
19:38	jummel: LOCAL_APPS is unimplemented on ltsp5.
19:39	jummel: LOCAL_STORAGE is deprecated ... use LOCALDEV
19:39	jummel: USE_NFS_SWAP does nothing, ditto for SWAPFILE_SIZE.
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19:39	<vagrantc> jummel: don't think X4_MODULE_* is implemented
19:40	jummel: RCFILE_01 = floppyd b..
19:40	jummel: what's "floppyd b.." ?
19:41	jummel: the syntax for RCFILE_NN is full path to a file that's executed on boot
19:41	<jummel> vagrantc: I was trying to set up remote floppy drive access using floppyd
19:41	<vagrantc> jummel: so, clean up all that, and then try again.
19:41	jummel: there is no floppyd in ltsp5
19:42	jummel: it's all implemented with LOCALDEV=True
19:42	<jummel> wow, that was well documented, I've spent days trawling the LTSP website trying to set all that up
19:42	<vagrantc> jummel: i would recommend just specifying X_MODE_0 and not any of the other things.
19:43	jummel: did you look at the file mentioned in the comments?
19:44	jummel: wiki.ltsp.org is mostly about ltsp 4.x and older.
19:44	jummel: see the documentation included with the ltsp packages and for debian:
19:44	!debian
19:44	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
19:48	<vagrantc> jammcq: wiki.ltsp.org is currently a vast and impressive wealth of ways to break ltsp5 setups ... we can't possibly update every single page to support all versions ...
19:48	<jammcq> agreed
19:48	<ace_suares> hi jammcq!
19:48	<vagrantc> i don't really know how to improve the situation.
19:49	<jammcq> rename it ltsp42_wiki.ltsp.org or something like that
19:49	<vagrantc> heh.
19:49	well, not all of it is ltsp4.2 either ...
19:49	how about just old.wiki.ltsp.org
19:49	<jammcq> hey ace_suares
19:50	that might work
19:50	<ace_suares> quite busy here, nice !
19:50	<jummel> As a newbie at this, a big flashing warning sign about that would be suffice on the home page I think
19:50	<ace_suares> hey jammcq, i got a defect TC (from thesitewiththelongnamethatsellsdisklessworkstations)
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19:51	<jammcq> ace_suares: hmm. I'm no longer affiliated with DisklessWorkstations.com
19:51	<ace_suares> wha should I do with it, it's way past guarantee of course...
19:51	jammcq: huh ?
19:52	<jammcq> ace_suares: contact support@DisklessWorkstations.com about getting it repaired
19:52	<ace_suares> jammcq: okay, I'll mail them.
19:52	I tought you are disklessworkstatios :-)
19:52	<jammcq> I am a co-founder
19:52	but I left in january
19:52	too busy with other stuff
19:53	<ace_suares> greener pastures, eh ?
19:53	<jammcq> could be
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19:58	<vagrantc> ltspbot: forget ver
19:58	<ltspbot> vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
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19:59	<vagrantc> ltspbot: learn ver as to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp' \| awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp' ldm \| awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
19:59	<ltspbot> vagrantc: The operation succeeded.
19:59	<vagrantc> !ver
19:59	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "ver" is to get version info on debian/ubuntu (please use the pastebot): COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l 'ltsp' \| awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}' ; COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp' ldm \| awk '/^ii/{print $2}/^ii/{print $3}'
19:59	<vagrantc> a little easier to read ...
20:00	wish i could figure out how to get ltspbot to accept " within the awk statements
20:00	it didn't like awk '/^ii/{print $2" "$3}'
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20:13	<^^Kilroy> i have a buddy with a couple thin clients connecting to a fedora core 1 server with ltsp 3.0.9. is there a way to set it up where he can log where each thin client surfs and he can get a report?
20:13	<jammcq> ^^Kilroy: squid is prolly your answer
20:14	configured with access control, so the users have to log into squid, to be able to get to the internet
20:15	<^^Kilroy> right now it does give a report, but it dosent specify which client goes where, only specifies that the server did the surfing..
20:15	<jammcq> cuz the server IS doing the surfing
20:15	<^^Kilroy> so squid should be able to log where the packets are forwarded?
20:15	<jammcq> the web browser is running on the server, so you can't use IP address
20:15	squid can be configured to require you to log in
20:16	although I've never done it myself
20:16	<^^Kilroy> i was curious about that, thats why i thought to ask here first.
20:18	ok, so login to squid and it should allow individual net access logging.
20:18	<jammcq> yes, if you configure squid for that
20:19	<^^Kilroy> would the session thats presently loaded by the clients need to be altered any?
20:19	<jammcq> no, but you'd need to configure an iptables rule to force ALL web traffic to go through the squid server
20:20	and the user would be presented with a login dialog box before being allowed to get to the internet
20:20	<^^Kilroy> that makes sense
20:20	alright thank you. at least i have a direction to go in.
20:20	<jammcq> there may be other directions, but I've heard people having success this way
20:22	<^^Kilroy> the guy that used to take care of the unit screwed him over badly and he asked me to try and straighten it out
20:22	and i am a novice with linux so its a learning curve for me.
20:22	sppreciate the advice.
20:22	<jammcq> no prob
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