IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 5 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <ball> exploding cuttlefish?
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| 00:01 | <ltsppbot> "cyberorg" pasted "gnome-session-nx" (37 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/133
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| 00:01 | <cyberorg> warren, that is what we are using, that works ^^
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| 00:02 | <warren> His method adds no security
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| 00:02 | hmm, can't connect to pastebot
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| 00:03 | <cyberorg> http://pastebin.com/d448bfce3
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| 00:04 | <warren> #
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| 00:04 | nxagent :${SESS_DISPLAY} -D +kb -noxkblock \
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| 00:04 | #
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| 00:04 | -auth ~/.Xauthority -nopersistent -noshmem -noignore &
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| 00:04 | #
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| 00:04 | DISPLAY=:${SESS_DISPLAY} /usr/bin/gnome-session
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| 00:04 | <johnny> so warren are you finally better now?
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| 00:04 | <warren> cyberorg: it could run gnome-session before nxagent is fully running
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| 00:04 | cyberorg: that explains why it worked only 1/20 tries on my system
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| 00:04 | johnny: ?
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| 00:05 | <johnny> you were sick awhile ago.. surgery?
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| 00:05 | are you back to normal now?
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| 00:05 | <warren> johnny: doing a lot better, it was rough for a while
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| 00:05 | cyberorg: hmm, this script is also racy
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| 00:05 | <cyberorg> warren, so it needs sleep 2 before last line?
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| 00:06 | <warren> cyberorg: sometihng like that, but the while loop is also a race disaster
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| 00:06 | cyberorg: between choosing a number, checking and using it, sometihng else could grab it by accident, or intentionally
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| 00:07 | <cyberorg> yes, a very small chance
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| 00:08 | <warren> cyberorg: this is a classic race condition exploit
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| 00:08 | cyberorg: that directory is in /tmp with permission 1777
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| 00:08 | literally anyone else on the system can screw with another user
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| 00:08 | * johnny votes to elect warren ltsp security dictator | |
| 00:09 | <warren> johnny: you don't want that, I enabled LDM_DIRECTX by default
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| 00:09 | <johnny> well.. i guess that's a fair tradeoff considering the types of machines in use in many installs
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| 00:10 | that can make it unusable in many settings
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| 00:10 | <warren> sure it is more secure than XDMCP
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| 00:10 | but not much
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| 00:10 | <loather-work> i'd like to see a weak ssh cipher be used
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| 00:10 | like des56
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| 00:10 | but most distro builds blow away the weak ciphers
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| 00:11 | <warren> I used to patch my sshd with a null cypher
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| 00:11 | =)
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| 00:16 | <loather-work> i did that when i was testing things like traffic shaping
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| 00:16 | <ball> double ROT-13
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| 00:16 | <loather-work> haha :) best encryption evar
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| 00:19 | * cyberorg is happy to have a first normal conversation with warren | |
| 00:19 | ltsppbot has quit IRC | |
| 00:20 | <warren> I'll throw in some hostility.
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| 00:20 | cyberorg: growl
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| 00:25 | <johnny> aha.. mr dave airlie.. our graphics hero..
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| 00:26 | ltsppbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 00:29 | <warren> johnny: everyone's graphics hero
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| 00:32 | cyberorg: oh!
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| 00:32 | cyberorg: I bet you've only tested NX with LDM_DIRECTX=false right?
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| 00:40 | <cyberorg> warren, no, without that
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| 00:41 | <warren> cyberorg: you mean unencrypted?
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| 00:41 | <cyberorg> our default is LDM_DIRECTX=false so without that line in lts.conf
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| 00:41 | http://en.opensuse.org/LTSP/Tips_and_Tricks#Using_NXagent_to_decrease_X_traffic
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| 00:42 | so technically LDM_DIRECTX=false
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| 02:31 | <thelmara> can anybody tell me where the ltsp-build-client binary is found in Fedora Core 9 after install?
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| 02:40 | <warren> oh damn
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| 02:40 | nxagent fails even after it sends SIGUSR1
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| 02:40 | it needs a few seconds after that to not fail
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| 02:46 | cyberorg: hmm, ok, got it working. It dropped bandwidth usage of playing a particular youtube video from 60 to 20mbit/sec, however the video is very jerky and not steady, has this been your experience as well?
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| 02:46 | it is also impossible to scroll the window, it takes like 10-20 seconds for firefox to respond
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| 02:48 | <cyberorg> firefox scroll is slow any way, so i didn;t notice more slowdown
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| 02:48 | <warren> firefox scroll normally isn't slow for native X here
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| 02:48 | as long as you have sufficient bandwidt
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| 02:49 | main2frame has joined #ltsp | |
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| 02:49 | <main2frame> hello
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| 02:51 | Can somebody help me to debug ltspfs - client side is ok but serverside /tmp/.ltspfs-username/ mountpoint isn't created and ltspfsmount script fails
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| 02:51 | fuse is ok, device is with right permissions, user has fuse group
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| 02:52 | when running on terminal ssh -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.1.253 192.168.1.253 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"
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| 02:53 | I get errror
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| 02:53 | Error: /tmp/.test-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
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| 02:55 | <cyberorg> main2frame, what distro and ltspfs release?
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| 02:56 | <main2frame> distro is ubuntu-8.04 LTS and ltspfs is 0.5.0~bzr20080109-3ubuntu2
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| 02:56 | strangely it was working initially - but all of the sudden stopped worked...it worked with single terminal - later with multiple terminals stopped working
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| 02:57 | Im just clueless right now how to debug it furter
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| 02:57 | further
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| 02:57 | aka debugging serverside fuse
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| 02:57 | that seems to fail
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| 02:59 | does anybody know how this /tmp/.username-ltspfs mountpoint is set up? by ltspfsmount?
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| 03:01 | <cyberorg> main2frame, did you do anything like update something before it stopped working?
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| 03:02 | <main2frame> yes I did apt-get update once - it might be that after that it got non-working state
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| 03:02 | <cyberorg> also the client chroot?
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| 03:02 | <main2frame> the serverside ltspfs package got minor version 3 instead of 2
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| 03:02 | no
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| 03:03 | but I downgraded now serverside back to 0.5.0~bzr20080109-3ubuntu2
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| 03:03 | clientroot won't upgrade the package
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| 03:03 | I didnt look but I suppose updates repo description was missing?
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| 03:04 | aka doing apt-get in client root wont upgrade automatically to ltspfsd 0.5.0~bzr20080109-3ubuntu3
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| 03:04 | <cyberorg> usually it is a good idea to update client and server packages both at the same time, can you rebuild the client image?
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| 03:04 | <main2frame> right now they are the same version - both are back to 0.5.0~bzr20080109-3ubuntu2
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| 03:05 | but still problem persists
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| 03:05 | I can upgrade both again
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| 03:05 | and try again
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| 03:08 | mhm...updates repo description is missing from client root
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| 03:08 | shouldn't it be there - is it a bug?
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| 03:14 | <main2frame> /etc/apt/sources.list contains no hardy-updates
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| 03:14 | <warren> cyberorg: when is 11.1 due?
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| 03:16 | <cyberorg> warren, later this month
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| 03:24 | <main2frame> ok I updated client root and image
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| 03:25 | booted new image
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| 03:25 | now ltspfs and ltspfsd packages both are 0.5.0~bzr20080109-3ubuntu3
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| 03:25 | but still non-working
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| 03:25 | how can I debug serverside ltspfsmounter etc?
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| 03:31 | if I try manually to fire ltspfsmounter from terminal console - does it has to be ssh -S or ssh -X -S ?
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| 03:35 | ok - now if I try ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.1.253 192.168.1.253 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add" I get
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| 03:35 | Wrote 1b88652e06424ac252d22a4d0e2ff2c0 size 32, waiting
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| 03:35 | fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied
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| 03:35 | Error: /tmp/.test-ltspfs/tmp is not mounted
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| 03:36 | ls -l /dev/fuse
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| 03:36 | crw-rw-r-- 1 root fuse 10, 229 Dec 5 11:23 /dev/fuse
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| 03:36 | id test
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| 03:36 | uid=1000(test) gid=100(users) groups=100(users),117(fuse)
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| 03:37 | /dev/fuse permissions seem ok to me and test user has fuse group access
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| 03:38 | now why Im getting permission denied error from manually invoking ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_192.168.1.253 192.168.1.253 from terminal???
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| 03:47 | <cyberorg> main2frame, post on ltsp-discuss mailing list or wait for ogra to come online
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| 03:48 | <main2frame> I have ltsp as openvz containter
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| 03:50 | it can be something wrong with fuse device creation inside container also
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| 03:53 | ok that was it - I had accidently removed fuse device rules from ltsp openvz CT config file - so fuse device was ok inside CT but not allowed from OpenVZ hardware node
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| 06:10 | <polytan> hi
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| 06:10 | is there any ltsp gentoo's dev here ?
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| 06:47 | <cyberorg> polytan, johnny
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| 07:18 | <Appiah> joining the channel again , reading the topic... Gentoo my fav dist "is getting very close". Is there any status on what's "missing" ?
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| 08:25 | <ace_suares> !seen ogra
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| 08:25 | <ltspbot`> ace_suares: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 15 hours, 34 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <ogra> thanks a lot !
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| 08:25 | <ace_suares> hi there, anyone can provide me with the command line like ssh -X somehting pulseaudio=ipaddress etc ? I see it in my top often but cant find it now
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| 08:31 | <rjester> hey all, i am having a problem with LTSP 5 and a usb CDRW. i am running on opensuse 11.1. when i plug in a USB stick, it pops up fine, but when i plug in a usb cdrw nothing happens. i can see the device being detected if i run dmesg on the thin client, but i don't know where to go from there
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| 08:31 | <rjune> !seen ogra
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| 08:31 | <ltspbot`> rjune: ogra was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 15 hours, 40 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <ogra> thanks a lot !
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| 08:33 | <ace_suares> rjune how r u
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| 08:34 | okay never mind i got it
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| 08:45 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:45 | <kalib> message
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| 08:46 | I'm using LTSP server here... But some terminals are not starting the X server. I got a message about XDMCP server... something about maximum number of sessions.. How can I check the number of sessions? And how can I correct it?
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| 08:46 | <Gadi> kalib: are you using LTSP 4?
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| 08:47 | <kalib> yeah Gadi
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| 08:48 | <Gadi> gdm?
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| 08:48 | <rjune> !s
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| 08:48 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:48 | <rjune> !g
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| 08:48 | <ltspbot`> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:48 | <kalib> Gadi, yes
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> kalib: check your gdm configuration for max number of sessions
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| 08:50 | <kalib> Gadi, wich file?
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> kalib: gdm.conf
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| 08:52 | <kalib> Gadi, done...
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| 08:53 | after change it.. need to do something else?
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| 08:54 | <Gadi> kalib: you will need to restart gdm - but that will kick everyone off
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| 08:54 | so do it when people are not on
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| 08:54 | <kalib> ok
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| 08:55 | got it
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| 08:55 | <rjune> Gadi: what's new?
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| 08:55 | <kalib> Gadi, /etc/init.d/gdm restart, right?!
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| 09:42 | <warren> stgraber: what exactly is the goal of screen-session.d? could you please discuss it on the list?
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| 09:42 | Gadi: hey gadi
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| 09:42 | Gadi: could you please send your nx scripts?
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| 09:43 | I've already determined that NX is a disaster of code quality and its encoding is sub-par, cannot be relied upon, when it is working, which is rare.
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| 09:43 | but I want to make it work upstream anyway
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| 09:46 | <rjune> warren you referring to freeNX or the commercial version?
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| 09:46 | <stgraber> warren: look at the example I just uploaded
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| 09:47 | <warren> rjune: both
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| 09:47 | stgraber: I don't understand the part about xorg.conf
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| 09:47 | <stgraber> warren: if you want to update the xorg.conf for things like the Virtual parameter you need to do it before the xinitrc and we didn't have any rc script executed before running the screen.d script
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| 09:48 | <warren> what is the Virtual parameter?
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| 09:48 | <stgraber> warren: it's also something that will help people drop scripts there to fix some auto-detection mistake, generating a xorg.conf
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| 09:48 | <warren> stgraber: what if your xorg.conf is completely blank?
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| 09:48 | <stgraber> the Virtual resolution, you need it to do dual-head with the Intel video card
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| 09:48 | <warren> stgraber: if it cannot be done without a xorg.conf it is an upstream bug
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| 09:49 | <stgraber> well, the fact that you need Virtual for the intel video card when doing dual-head is AFAIK a hardware limitation
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| 09:50 | <warren> stgraber: what happens with that script if your xorg.conf is completely blank?
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| 09:50 | <stgraber> if it's an intel video card, it'll add a minimal Screen section, if it's not, you still will have a blank xorg.conf
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| 09:50 | <warren> oh
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| 09:51 | <warren> stgraber: hmm, we could use a similar scrip to implement the other X_CONF options?
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| 09:51 | <stgraber> yeah
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| 09:51 | <warren> stgraber: Fedora doesn't ship configure-x.sh because it has debianisms, and we don't want an xorg.conf at all
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| 09:51 | but some people keep crying
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| 09:51 | err
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| 09:51 | X_* options
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| 09:51 | <stgraber> Ubuntu doesn't use configure-x.sh either
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| 09:51 | <warren> we do support X_CONF
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| 09:53 | stgraber: _UsUrPeR_ hasn't cried about Ubuntu not using configure-x.sh? There is no other way to enable DVI on his clients at the moment?
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| 09:53 | <_UsUrPeR_> wha
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| 09:54 | I'm crying about something completely different right now. It's difficult to switch cry topics.
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| 09:54 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: configure-x.sh is responsible for X_* options to work
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| 09:55 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: so I continued to implement whitelists yesterday, then discovered something even more horrifying about how localappsd works...
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| 09:55 | _UsUrPeR_: then I got distracted by something else shiny
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| 09:55 | <stgraber> if you want X_* to work (before they are re-implemented using screen-session.d) you need to set CONFIGURE_X=True in lts.conf, then have the X_* options
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| 09:55 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: i'll likely finish the whitelist today or during the weekend
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| 09:56 | stgraber: wont work here
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| 09:56 | we don't ship configure-x.sh, and it never did work on fedora
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| 09:56 | <stgraber> warren: right, because you don't have configure-x.sh at all (I'm not even sure it works in Ubuntu, haven't used it for a long time)
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| 09:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: no prob
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| 10:13 | warren_ is now known as elwarreno | |
| 10:14 | <elwarreno> stgraber: is francis still alive?
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| 10:14 | <warren> oh
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| 10:14 | stgraber: did all the lobster brain kill him?
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| 10:17 | <stgraber> elwarreno: yeah
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| 10:18 | warren: nope, he's still weird but nothing outside the ordinary :)
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| 10:18 | warren: btw, was that you who had the photo(s) of francis eating the lobsters ?
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| 10:20 | <warren> You are what you eat!
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| 10:26 | stgraber: could you implement some of the X_ options in your new .d? I need to better understand it.
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| 10:26 | stgraber: then I might be able to implement the rest
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| 10:28 | <stgraber> warren: Gadi was mainly discussing the X_ implementation, I'll see if he can implement some feature properly so we can then have a good example of how to do it
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| 10:29 | <warren> and how does screen-session.d make sense as a namE?
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| 10:30 | stgraber: btw, I was thinking, we need .d an ldm .d K script for removing xauth tries.
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| 10:30 | otherwise xauth entries just pile up
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| 10:30 | it is not 100% obvious a safe way to do it though
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| 10:30 | you have two different types of xauth entries
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| 10:30 | with directx or no
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| 10:31 | and then there are concurrency problems
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| 10:51 | <Gadi> hi, guys
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| 10:51 | sorry - busy day so far
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| 10:52 | warren: I can get you what I have for nx, thats no problem
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| 10:52 | I think these days, tho, I have taken to running a local window manager with it so I don't need uglier acrobatics to kill the prcos it forks
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| 10:53 | but, I think I separated the wrapper script from the loop with the wm
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| 10:53 | so, whatever
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| 10:53 | I need to make it coherent for you
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| 10:53 | :)
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| 10:53 | thats mostly why its not yet in upstream
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| 10:54 | .. in terms of screen-session.d, I will try to make some examples as well
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| 10:54 | one would be to reimplement X_HORZSYNC and X_VERTREFRESH for naughty monitors
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| 10:55 | another would be to force a video driver
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| 10:55 | (XSERVER)
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| 10:55 | <Gadi> stgraber and I share something in common - real immediate customers that cannot be satisfied with "that's an upstream bug and there's no way to fix it for you until they do"
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| 10:56 | :)
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| 10:56 | <Gadi> but, some of these things are not even bugs
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| 10:56 | some are to manage naughty peripherals
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| 10:58 | <warren> Gadi: the screen-session.d is the priority, NX I already know is a dead end
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| 10:59 | <Gadi> ah, well thats encouraging
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| 10:59 | :)
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| 10:59 | whats up with NX?
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| 11:08 | <cliebow> jeez:nx works awesome for me
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| 11:10 | <warren> Gadi: it sucks
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| 11:11 | <Gadi> ah, sounds like a discrepency
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| 11:11 | :)
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| 11:11 | <Gadi> is "sucks" a professional opinion?
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| 11:11 | :)
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| 11:12 | <cliebow> how about a pissing match 8~)
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| 11:13 | <warren> Gadi: I could also use the word "disaster"
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| 11:13 | Or "segfault"
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| 11:13 | Or "The people who wrote it did it wrong."
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| 11:14 | <Gadi> hmm
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| 11:14 | I recognized one of those as a technical term
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| 11:14 | :)
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| 11:14 | does it "dump mad core"?
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| 11:17 | <warren> I found workarounds for most of its problems
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| 11:17 | but not all
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| 11:17 | oh shit, gotta go now
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| 11:17 | bbl
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| 11:24 | <cliebow> i meant a missing patch ;-]
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| 11:27 | <EAG> are Fujitsu's FUTRO thinclients worth looking into?
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| 11:34 | <johnny> Appiah, polytan : hi
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| 11:34 | Appiah, i've been here the whole time :)
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| 11:35 | as in.. since you've started coming around :)
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| 12:12 | <Appiah> johnny: yes?
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| 12:12 | <johnny> you said something about gentoo before?
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| 12:13 | <Appiah> yes , I asked
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| 12:13 | what's missing from gentoo to go from "very close" to done
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| 12:14 | <johnny> fixing genkernel to load an exterenal config to get it to include all the network drivers we need
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| 12:14 | right now it only includes two, and you have to manually regenerate it with good network modules
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| 12:15 | it also involves using a git version of genkernel elsewise
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| 12:15 | there is a patch for it, it's just not included yet
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| 12:15 | it also won't do nbd
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| 12:15 | but then again.. neither does fedora
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| 12:16 | <Appiah> I'm a person who prefers gentoo , and thinking of trying to contribute more
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| 12:16 | anything I can help with?
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| 12:17 | <Appiah> I wanna help in LTSP in general too I been told o join ltsp-docs
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| 12:19 | <johnny> Appiah, i'll ask you to test it again shortly, after i re merge
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| 12:19 | but it will involve you manually updating genkernel intramfs
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| 12:20 | you could look into quickstart
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| 12:20 | which is what i'm using to generate the chroot
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| 12:20 | <Appiah> quickstart?
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| 12:21 | <johnny> http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/quickstart.php
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| 12:21 | <Appiah> oh
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| 12:21 | holy crap
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| 12:22 | the installer sucked , right ;)
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| 12:22 | tried it once and went back to the normal way
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| 12:22 | So are you are making a quickstart for ltsp?
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| 12:23 | a sort of similar Ubuntu-Alternate -> LTSP Server install ?
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| 12:24 | <johnny> i already made quickstart for ltsp :)
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| 12:25 | if you layman -a ltsp and emerge ltsp-server and look in /etc/ltsp/quickstart/profile.qs , you'll see it
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| 12:25 | <Appiah> awesome
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| 12:27 | Well I'll get a testing envoirment up and try it
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| 12:27 | later
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| 12:27 | <Gadi> layman? what a name... :)
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| 12:28 | <Appiah> ;)
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| 12:28 | <Gadi> written by men with big egos
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| 12:28 | :)
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| 12:28 | * ogra waves to east coast Gadi from SF | |
| 12:29 | * Gadi waves to ogra - welcome to the US | |
| 12:29 | * Gadi is happy to know they still let you in | |
| 12:29 | <ogra> hehe
| |
| 12:30 | <Gadi> btw - if fdisk ever tells you to zero out the first 512 bytes of a dos parition - do it - it aint kidding
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| 12:30 | :)
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> i always look for the line with female officers and flirt a lot to make them let me in
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| 12:30 | <Gadi> I always thought it was a suggestion
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| 12:30 | ogra: they are men - you know that right?
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| 12:31 | ;)
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| 12:31 | <ogra> not all of them ;)
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| 12:32 | * Gadi tries to remember the name of that movie from the 90s | |
| 12:32 | <Gadi> damn
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| 12:33 | foiled again
| |
| 12:34 | * Lns waves to ogra from 50 miles north of SF | |
| 12:35 | * ogra waves back | |
| 12:35 | <Lns> ogra, so you're traveling south to stay at that one hotel right?
| |
| 12:36 | <ogra> right
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| 12:36 | <Lns> I'm hoping to actually go to SF tomorrow for a float
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| 12:36 | <ogra> we're currnetly at google campus
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| 12:36 | <Lns> oh nice =)
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| 12:36 | <ogra> where we usually spend the days
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> stgraber: any reason not to use run_parts_list function from ltsp-common-functions for the screen-session.d stuff?
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| 12:45 | stgraber: it also runs all scripts in both the before and after... is that intentional?
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| 12:45 | ah, nevermind.
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| 12:45 | i see the K/S handling.
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| 12:47 | though it still would be nice to use the same logic for which files are allowable.
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| 12:50 | <stgraber> ogra: we have xrandr dual-head support in ltsp upstream !
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| 12:51 | <ogra> cute !
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| 13:23 | <rjune> ogra: !
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| 13:25 | ogra: I have a tracking # for you. it's due to be delivered on the 10
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| 13:25 | <warren> stgraber: crap, there appear to be numerous bugs in Xorg 1.5 where if you specify Virtual in xorg.conf X fails
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| 13:32 | <Gadi> warren: upstream driver bugs? ;)
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| 13:34 | <warren> Gadi: hmm.... it fails especially in the i810 driver
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| 13:34 | <Gadi> i810 is old
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| 13:34 | intel is the supported one
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| 13:35 | I doubt i810 even support xrandr1.2
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| 13:37 | <warren> no
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| 13:37 | <rjune> ogra: you about?
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| 13:37 | <warren> i810 is the driver name that contains intel
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| 13:46 | <johnny> it's not the driver name anymore..
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| 13:48 | <warren> oh
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| 13:48 | I see now
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| 13:49 | both i810 and intel are provided by the driver package though
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| 13:52 | <jammcq> hello #ltsp
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| 13:52 | <warren> hellooooo
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| 13:55 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hi jammcq!
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| 13:56 | <jammcq> hey can-o
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| 13:56 | <Lns> hey jammcq
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| 13:57 | <cliebow> jammcq:!
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| 13:58 | <jammcq> hello gents
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| 14:42 | <vagrantc> so, is ~/.dmrc "going away" sometime soon? what is it likely to be replaced with?
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| 14:42 | supporting persistant session selection is probably the biggest missing feature in LDM that i can think of.
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| 14:44 | <warren> vagrantc: upstream seems unable to make decisions. I personally would lean towards just doing our own thing until there is a clear upstream standard.
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| 14:45 | vagrantc: a future ldm version can see the existing ~/.ldmsomething and migrate to ~/.upstreamsomething and remove .ldmsomething
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> warren: i don't really like the idea of future migrations, and ~/.dmrc has been around for a while now, no?
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| 14:46 | <stgraber> I'd just go with .dmrc for now and then if there is a change for both gdm and kdm then do it
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| 14:47 | <warren> that seems fine
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| 14:47 | <stgraber> it's a feature I have on the list of things I need to implement for some customers (mainly bi-lingual school districts)
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| 14:47 | <vagrantc> stgraber: default language selection and all that?
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| 14:47 | <stgraber> and they currently use both desktop computers and thin client so .dmrc seems to be a good choice as it'd then work on both
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| 14:47 | vagrantc: yeah, language and session
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> warren, johnny, cyberorg: is there a consistant URL from each of your distros where i can download your source versions?
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| 15:01 | <warren> vagrantc: given that I don't do any deviation from upstream...?
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| 15:02 | vagrantc: I don't fork and patch older versions
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> i.e. for debian, it would be http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/l/ltsp/
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| 15:02 | warren: given even that
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| 15:02 | <warren> http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ltsp/
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| 15:02 | http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ldm/
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| 15:03 | http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ltspfs/
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> warren: does the .src.rpm contain the upstream sources?
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| 15:04 | <warren> vagrantc: yes
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| 15:04 | vagrantc: oh, my only patch is an alternate layout for ldm
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| 15:05 | vagrantc: I'm waiting for the magical ldm layout configurability
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> i'm not concerned about patches, just upstream versions
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| 15:05 | <warren> if that doesn't come, then I'm including my patch as an IFDEF
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> warren: those URLs are not likely to change?
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| 15:06 | <warren> njo
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| 15:06 | no
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> warren: thanks!
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| 15:10 | user1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:10 | <user1> hey all
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| 15:10 | i have a java based app that works normally on the server, but on the thin clients it takes MUCH longer and is MUCH slower, especially when it comes to opening new windows
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| 15:10 | client find is unworkable
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| 15:11 | sometimes an 8-10 second delay in opening a window
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| 15:11 | are we SOL?
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| 15:11 | <vagrantc> if you don't care about security AT ALL, you could try enabling LDM_DIRECTX=true in lts.conf
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| 15:12 | user1: oh, and:
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| 15:12 | !release
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| 15:12 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "release" is please mention the linux distro and release you're using :)
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| 15:12 | <user1> sorry
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| 15:12 | kubuntu-8.04
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| 15:12 | <warren> vagrantc: I'd like to rename it to LDM_INSECURE in the docs and examples, but continue to support the old name.
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| 15:12 | <user1> i wanted to check the resources on the thin client but it keeps telling me me account is expired
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| 15:13 | <vagrantc> warren: i'm supportive of that, but i suspect others won't like it
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| 15:13 | <user1> though they are 1.5ghz amd and 256mb ram, one would think that would be enough for any thin purpose, right?
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| 15:14 | <vagrantc> localapps support wasn't in hardy, but that might be a way to do it, with machines that powerful.
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| 15:14 | <warren> that amount of RAM is a bit small
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| 15:15 | <user1> vagrantc: is it in ibex?
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| 15:15 | especially small for a java app, right?
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| 15:16 | <vagrantc> depends on how much ram the java app takes, but yes, that would be my main concern.
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| 15:17 | <user1> vagrantc: i would like to check the resources on the thin client, but it keeps telling me the account is expired, even when i chroot in and set the pw
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| 15:17 | <sbalneav> user1: You're probably being bitten by:
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| 15:17 | https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs/+bug/277069/
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| 15:19 | <user1> sbalneav: wow, thanks for that...
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| 15:20 | <user1> # ... please create:
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| 15:20 | # /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf instead for your changes
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| 15:21 | <Lns> user1: see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
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| 15:21 | (for unlocking root account)
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| 15:22 | <user1> Lns: thanks
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| 15:22 | <Lns> np
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| 15:23 | <user1> sbalneav: it makes sense that it would be the bug if every other app seems to work normally, right?
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| 15:23 | <sbalneav> Yeah, as soon as you mentioned java, that's what my mind went to.
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| 15:24 | <Lns> user1: I experience that same issue w/Java.. there's a good workaround though
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| 15:24 | <user1> sbalneav: then again one of the people mentioned slow typing in open office but i dont get that
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| 15:24 | then again open office is mostly c++ these days, or am i wrong about that
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| 15:27 | <sbalneav> I beleive it's C++
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| 15:32 | <johnny> vagrantc, my src version is bzr
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| 15:32 | atm
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| 15:32 | it pulls HEAD from bzr atm
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> johnny: but there's some file that they download which tells it how to build, no?
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| 15:33 | <johnny> oh.. sure
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| 15:33 | <vagrantc> and version information can be extracted from that?
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| 15:34 | <johnny> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/ltsp.git;a=tree
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| 15:34 | version information ? no
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| 15:34 | <vagrantc> so the package is unversioned?
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| 15:34 | <johnny> the official version in tree is *-9999
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| 15:34 | yes.. unversioned atm
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| 15:34 | until i find a place to put tarballs :)
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| 15:34 | hehe
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| 15:35 | wasn't planning on forcing the issue until it goes in tree
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| 15:35 | instead of just an overlay
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> johnny: what's "in tree" vs. "overlay" ?
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| 15:40 | <johnny> overlays .. same thing as external repos in debian
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| 15:40 | same functionality at least..
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> what's an external repo in debian?
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| 15:42 | <johnny> stuff that goes in /etc/apt/sources.list that isn't the official debian upstream
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| 15:42 | or ubuntu
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 15:42 | got it.
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| 15:48 | <Lns> aka "third party unsupported" i'd assume =)
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| 15:49 | aka "It's an RPM...so it might work...but..umm...yeah."
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| 16:01 | <user1> sbalneav: i believe i owe you a debt of gratitude
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| 16:02 | sbalneav: for finding that bug... i gotta run, but thanks
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| 16:03 | <vagrantc> heh. i figured out an ugly hack to parse ~/.dmrc
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| 16:03 | getltscfg -c /path/to/.dmrc -n Desktop -a
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| 18:54 | <Ryan52> vagrantc, if only we had getltscfg on the server :)
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: well, i was thinking of just downloading the ~/.dmrc to the thin-client from and ldm rc.d script
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| 18:56 | that way we don't need to support server-side stuff.
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| 18:56 | <Ryan52> hrm. ya, that could work. what about making changes, though?
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> push it back
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| 18:57 | <Ryan52> well, obviously, but how do we actually make the change?
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| 18:57 | * Ryan52 wonders if it lets you have multiple "[Desktop]" sections | |
| 18:57 | <vagrantc> edit the file client-side...
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| 18:57 | push it to the server...
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| 18:58 | <Ryan52> okie dokie. :)
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> sound evil?
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| 18:58 | <Ryan52> not really.
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| 18:59 | why don't we move out the ssh command to it's own shell script? then we could implement hooks like we just did for before and after X...
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| 18:59 | I don't see any reason why it needs to be ran from the c program.
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| 18:59 | it's kinda messy, I guess..
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> i don't really see why nearly everything but the greeter isn't written in shell...
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| 19:01 | but i haven't been the one to make those calls.
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| 19:02 | <Ryan52> then I would be sad, cause ldm is the only time I ever get to write real C :p
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 19:08 | Ryan52: so, i'm not quite sure, but i envisioned an ldm rc.d script to download the ~/.dmrc and maybe ask if they want to set the new defaults and such ... and then somewhere in the C code, and then something in ldm.c between rc_files("start") and x_session() to set values as appropriate ...
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| 19:08 | i.e. if the session type is default, don't muck with the .dmrc, but read the default session from it.
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| 19:09 | <Ryan52> but we already determind that there is no way to make a shell script change a C programs environment.,
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> if ~/.dmrc and the selected session differ, then prompt to update it...
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| 19:09 | Ryan52: so you need to parse the downloaded ~/.dmrc ...
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| 19:09 | <Ryan52> in c?
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| 19:09 | then what's the point of an rc.d?
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> i guess not much.
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| 19:10 | <Ryan52> exactly! :)
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> could just do it all in C, i guess.
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| 19:10 | <Ryan52> ya, that's what I'd vote for.
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> i just like to keep as much of it not over my head as possible :)
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| 19:11 | though i'm slowly learning.
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| 19:11 | <Ryan52> just learn C already! :)
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> pfft.
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| 19:11 | * Ryan52 <3 C :p | |
| 19:12 | <vagrantc> i have a hard enough time learning something like ruby
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> and it'd be a stretch to say i even know python.
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| 19:14 | <Ryan52> wait, what? you know ruby?
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| 19:14 | <vagrantc> enough to make simple patches here and there
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| 19:14 | <Ryan52> oh.
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| 19:15 | * Ryan52 has never seen vagrantc write any ruby | |
| 19:16 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: i think there's some rudimentary commits in a couple of the smaller ruby scripts at freegeek
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| 19:16 | anyways... off to aikido!
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| 19:16 | <Ryan52> ok, have fun! :)
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| 21:46 | <stgraber> Ryan52: having .dmrc support is very high on my list of thing to do but as you mentioned, this one needs to be able to change the parent's environment. The easiest way I thought we should implement it is to move the actual session open from the C code to a shell script, then make all ldm rc.d scripts to be sourced instead of simply being called.
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| 21:47 | they'd then be able to change every environment variable they want making things like .dmrc handling possible
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| 21:47 | <Ryan52> ya.
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| 21:49 | tho, we need tihngs like the pid in ldm..
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| 21:49 | pid of ssh
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| 21:49 | so that gets...complicated.
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| 21:49 | so we might as well just reimplement ldm in shell :(
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| 21:49 | wait, nevermind.
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| 21:50 | it connects in one ssh command and then runs the session in another.
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| 21:50 | so we just move the session one out -- easy.
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| 21:53 | stgraber: are you intending on working on that this weekend? mind if I "steal" it from you? I intend to work on ldm Sunday anyway, since I want to improve the ldminfo xsession stuff..
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| 21:53 | * Ryan52 isn't sure of "very high on my list of thing to do" means things you want done or things you want to do or both.. | |
| 21:53 | <Ryan52> s/of/if/
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| 21:54 | <elwarreno> how do you do a private message in irc?
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| 21:54 | i'm currently using konversation...
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| 21:54 | as a client
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| 21:54 | <Ryan52> elwarreno: not sure about the GUI way, but "/query user" should open up a new window to talk to them in.
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| 21:56 | oh, we do need the pid.
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| 21:56 | hrm.
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| 21:59 | <Ryan52> well, shell has a "wait" so maybe we don't need it :)
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| 22:00 | ya, that'll work fine afaict. yay! easy! :)
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| 22:10 | <stgraber> Ryan52: feel free to work on it, I'll be flying to UDS on Sunday so won't do much work on it then :)
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