IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 5 March 2015 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:03 | <muppis> How much things gets broken if I do do-release-upgrade from 10.04 to 14.04 ?
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| 06:04 | * muppis goes get some coffee to gain ability say Good morning to all. :D | |
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| 06:24 | <work_alkisg> Good morning muppis... and a good week too, if you decide to upgrade... :P :D
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| 06:33 | <muppis> alkisg, thanks. :D I'm actually figuring out which is easier, upgrading or fresh install. Only trick is there is LDAP.
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| 06:34 | -is
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| 06:34 | <alkisg> muppis: the fresh install has the benefit that you can easily revert or examine your old installation too
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| 06:35 | so e.g. before install you do: mkdir /srv/old-install; mv */srv/old-install; and everything is kept there
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| 06:36 | <muppis> alkisg, almost that way I planned, but using USB HDD for that.
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| 06:36 | <alkisg> mv is instant :)
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| 06:37 | <muppis> I know. :D
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| 09:28 | <alu30> esto que es?
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| 09:35 | <alkisg> English only here...
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| 10:03 | <fiesh> hmm, my usbip setup seems to work now, but it appears usbip does not support superspeed (USB 3.0)? does any one know anything about this?
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| 10:10 | <alkisg> You'll probably get better feedback if you direct non-ltsp issues to non-ltsp IRC channels...
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| 10:20 | <fiesh> I was just thinking someone here might have a similar setup since it is kind of canonical, there does not seem to be any usbip irc channel or else I would have asked there
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| 10:20 | <alkisg> #ubuntu, #debian etc
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| 10:25 | !learn non-ltsp as It's better to direct your questions to the most suitable channel. For example, for questions that are not specific to LTSP, you might try distro-specific channels, such as #ubuntu, #debian, #suse, #fedora etc.
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| 10:25 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 15:06 | <Dino_> Hi looking for a way to shutdown idle clients. I was looking through this link and it seemed interesting: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Tips_and_Tricks/User_Experience#Shutting_down_idle_clients
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| 15:08 | However our setup is a little different. We are using autologin to all the clients to launch rdesktop to connect to windows terminal services. According to the above link I'm thinking this is not going to work because first the clients are autologged in
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| 15:08 | does anyone have any ideas how to auto shutdown auto logged in clients after being idle?
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| 16:02 | <vmlintu> Dino_: we've been using autopoweroff for years for that
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| 16:04 | Dino_: it detects keyboard / mouse action and powers off the client if there's no use within the defined limits. I haven't used it with rdesktop, but I cannot see why it wouldn't work
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| 16:46 | <Dino_> @vmlintu so you are saying the link I included previously is what you have used?
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| 16:49 | @vmlintu is this what you are referring to? http://labs.opinsys.com/blog/2009/10/20/automatic-ltsp-thin-client-shutdown/
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| 16:52 | <vmlintu> Dino_: yes, that's what we've been using (the last link you just sent)
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| 16:53 | Dino_: the same .deb package is still working on ubuntu 14.04
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| 16:53 | <Dino_> perfect, I'll try that. Thanks a lot
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| 17:36 | <Dino_> @vmlintu I tried your suggeston, but my clients are now failing to boot. I'm getting error socket failed connection refused
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| 17:49 | <vmlintu> Dino_: where do you see that error?
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| 17:52 | <Dino_> I'm getting the error on the clients right after the trying to load pxelinux.cfg/default line
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| 17:54 | more errors:
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| 17:54 | mount: mounting /dev/nbd0 on /root /failed invalid argument
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| 17:55 | the clients were fine before I installed the autoshutdown packages and script
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| 17:55 | so it must be related to that.
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| 19:26 | <vmlintu> Dino_: I don't see how that could break it.. I guess I need to test if it's still valid.. which distro / version are you using?
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| 19:37 | <alkisg> Maybe something else went wrong in ltsp-update-image
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| 20:26 | <Dino_> I'm using ubuntu 14.04. Could any of the autoshutdown options in lts.conf, autopoweroff.conf or the autopoweroff script cause this?
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| 20:31 | <vmlintu> Dino_: image update didn't give you any errors?
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| 20:34 | <Dino_> not that I noticed. I'll run again
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| 21:03 | <Dino_> I ran it again and it worked. I guess something went wrong with the image. As far as powering down goes, it looks like it tries, the screen goes black and then it goes right back in rdesktop
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> Doesn't xprintidle work with rdesktop?
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| 21:05 | *xfreerdp
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| 21:06 | <Dino_> does what work with rdesktop?
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| 21:09 | I guess the behavior makes sense, since if I logoff from the terminal server, rdesktop doesn't close but it connects again to the terminal server and asks for login
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| 21:13 | <gbaman> alkisg: You know much about overlayfs?
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> gbaman: no, not much, I've just wrote a few lines with it for ltsp
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| 21:17 | <gbaman> 3.18 Debian kernels seem to have switched to it
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> Dino_: xprintidle is a utility that can query the x server for how much time is idle, and you can probably use it to shutdown idle clients
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| 21:17 | <gbaman> although have renamed it to overlay?
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| 21:17 | and documentation seems to be extremely limited on the web
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| 21:17 | <alkisg> gbaman: overlayfs got mainlined in the kernel
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| 21:17 | But isn't aufs also available?
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| 21:18 | <gbaman> Yes, but needs custom kernel then
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| 21:18 | Trying to avoid that
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| 21:18 | <alkisg> Isn't it a module? Wasn't it a module before as well? Why a custom kernel?
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| 21:19 | <gbaman> Generally just trying to stay away from it :)
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> And, didn't vagrantc say that he made overlay work with debian ltsp in his last commit?
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| 21:19 | <gbaman> Given it isn't in by default
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> aufs is more stable than overlayfs
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| 21:19 | <gbaman> Did he?
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| 21:19 | <alkisg> It does have issues with ubuntu too
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| 21:19 | Check the irc logs from your last chat with him
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| 21:20 | <gbaman> Am working on Raspberry Pi 2 support and it needs the 3.18 kernels, which don't have AUFS anymore
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/changes
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| 21:21 | "Add support for the "overlay" filesystem in mainline linux. Unfortunately, it does not appear to work with NFS as a backend, but does work with NBD and NFS+squashfs image."
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| 21:22 | <gbaman> 95%+ of people using Raspi-LTSP use NBD with squashfs, so all good
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| 21:22 | Any idea how long something like this will take to filter through to normal Debian repo?
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| 21:22 | <alkisg> gbaman: what's the situation with rpi? Can one just install debian+ltsp in it and get it working, or does he need custom distros and implementations?
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| 21:23 | <gbaman> As in the server on the Pi?
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| 21:23 | Or Pi as a client?
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| 21:23 | <alkisg> Both...
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| 21:23 | <gbaman> Pi as server isn't worth it, 100mbit/s ethernet
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| 21:23 | that actually runs a little slower than 100mbit/s actually due to slow USB driver
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| 21:24 | <alkisg> Suppose I get a pi as a server, and run e.g. ltsp-build-client, and then a client and put the kernel/initramfs there and try to boot it, will it work with stock debian?
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| 21:24 | Or does it need custom repositories or distros?
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| 21:24 | <gbaman> Custom repos
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| 21:24 | <alkisg> Why so?
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| 21:24 | <gbaman> Is arm6
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| 21:24 | <alkisg> And rpi 2?
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| 21:24 | Isn't that arm7?
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| 21:24 | <gbaman> Well now, that is an interesting one
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| 21:25 | People have got Ubuntu running on it via normal repos :)
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| 21:25 | Don't think many people have put the effort in to get Debian working, Ubuntu is more flashy
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| 21:26 | *Ubuntu running on Pi2, not using LTSP
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| 21:26 | I don't see why it wouldn't work though?
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| 21:26 | Might need a few minor tweaks
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| 21:26 | Due to specific hardware etc
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| 21:26 | <alkisg> Cool, well, if it doesn't work with stock debian/ltsp or stock ubuntu/ltsp then we should fix that :)
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| 21:27 | <gbaman> The Raspberry Pis Foundations official stance though is sticking with Raspbian and ARM6 compiled programs
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| 21:27 | To maintain compatibility with the 4.5 million+ older Pis
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| 21:28 | <alkisg> About overlayfs in debian/ltsp, I don't know if vagrantc will consider it worthy for a freeze exception. If yes, it'll be included in jessie. If not, it will be in jessie+1, in a couple years from now...
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| 21:28 | <gbaman> ...
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| 21:28 | <alkisg> It's a simple patch though, anyone can easily apply it
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| 21:29 | <gbaman> I will probably manually apply it via Raspi-LTSP
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> What is "raspi-ltsp", a repo of yours?
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| 21:29 | <gbaman> ..
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| 21:29 | A rather hefty piece of software for setting up LTSP in schools and managing it. Uses Raspbian
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| 21:29 | 3000+ lines
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| 21:30 | Used by 100+ schools across the world
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| 21:30 | <alkisg> What does it add to stock ltsp?
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| 21:30 | <gbaman> It basically builds Raspbian and has a full menu system
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| 21:30 | Plus lots of smaller tweaks
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| 21:30 | like adds shared folders
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| 21:30 | auto backups
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| 21:30 | batch user import
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| 21:31 | and a lot of documentation...
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| 21:31 | http://pi-ltsp.net/index.html
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> How do people install it, via some repository, or they download it?
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| 21:31 | <gbaman> Install Ubuntu 14.04, run script
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| 21:32 | Even used by Raspberry Pi Foundation now for parts of their official teacher training stuff
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| 21:32 | <alkisg> So the server is ubuntu 14.04 and the client is debian?
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| 21:32 | *raspbian?
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| 21:32 | <gbaman> Correct
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| 21:32 | It is designed to be extremely simple
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| 21:32 | <alkisg> Maybe you should add it to a ppa then?
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| 21:32 | <gbaman> We have have a 10 year old in Belgium maintaining his entire Raspberry Pi network using it
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| 21:33 | It is just a script
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| 21:33 | <alkisg> It reminds me a bit of the first "sch-scripts" versions
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| 21:33 | It started as a collection of scripts, then it got a GTK UI, then we packaged it to a ppa,
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| 21:33 | <gbaman> Plus, is in English :D
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| 21:33 | <alkisg> then we separated the computer-management GUI into epoptes and internationalized it,
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| 21:34 | ...maybe you should do the same :D
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| 21:34 | <gbaman> Which is also included, can install Epoptes with 1 click
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| 21:35 | Main script is here - https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP/blob/master/Pi_ltsp
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| 21:35 | <alkisg> How do you manage the arm chroot, with qemu?
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| 21:35 | <gbaman> Feature list is in the readme here - https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP
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| 21:35 | Yip, actually LTSP auto handles that, is nice
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| 21:36 | <alkisg> ltsp-chroot invokes qemu automatically if needed? cool
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| 21:36 | * alkisg has tried to avoid arm hardware so far, for compatibility with preexisting educational software | |
| 21:36 | <gbaman> yip, is pretty nice
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| 21:36 | Sounds like you need to pick up a Pi 2
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| 21:36 | Quad core with 1gb of ram
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| 21:37 | <alkisg> Yes I've been thinking of putting a dozen of those in a school computer lab near me...
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| 21:38 | <gbaman> Am telling you, Raspi-LTSP, by far the simplest option, especially for non techy teachers
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> We'd use them normally, with sch-scripts
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> ltsp-pnp etc
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| 21:38 | No chroots
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| 21:39 | So that software maintainance etc happens visually, with software center etc
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| 21:39 | <gbaman> As in using a Pi as a server?
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> As a template client to generate the chroot
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| 21:39 | *the image, sorry
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> The /opt/ltsp/images there could be an NFS mount if needed,
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| 21:40 | <gbaman> A pretty hefty chunk of the Raspi-LTSP code is building an exact clone of Raspbian with all the Raspberry Pi foundation tweaks
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> but I do want to test automatic local caching, so 100mbps for the fat client server (=rpi2) would be also viable...
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| 21:40 | <gbaman> They make a heck of a lot of tweaks
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| 21:40 | Is based off their spindle tool https://github.com/asb/spindle
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| 21:41 | <alkisg> Suppose that I want to install ubuntu in rpi2, how do I do it?
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| 21:41 | http://www.ubuntu.com/download/server/arm ?
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| 21:41 | Erm not server...
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| 21:41 | <gbaman> na
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| 21:41 | is no official build right now
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| 21:41 | just a community build
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| 21:41 | It does officially support snappy Ubuntu though
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| 21:41 | <alkisg> There's no arm 7 ubuntu build available?
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| 21:42 | <gbaman> Best available so far is this one http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=98997
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| 21:42 | No official one for Raspberry Pi yet
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| 21:42 | Thing is Raspbian in itself is actually really nice
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| 21:43 | And there is no interest to split the community over 2 OSs
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| 21:43 | <alkisg> Each device needs its own build? Isn't an arm7 build supposed to work for all arm7 devices that it supports?
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| 21:43 | <gbaman> Yes, although Pi does have a few weird things, nothing big though
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| 21:44 | No reason you couldn't build it yourself, but remember Pi needs stuff like certain partition layout, boot blobs, GPIO drivers, graphics libraries etc
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| 21:44 | <alkisg> And how would I install it, just dd an image to an sd card?
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| 21:44 | <gbaman> Yip
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| 21:44 | Simple as that
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| 21:44 | <alkisg> What are all these then? http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/armhf/
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| 21:45 | Where would I use an armhf iso?
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| 21:45 | <gbaman> An excellent question, they aren't for the Pi though
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| 21:45 | I am no expert in all this type of thing I will admit
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| 21:45 | And it is all still very new, no one expected it
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| 21:46 | There isn't a huge push for ARM7 stuff yet, I have been told there is barely noticeable speed improvement
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| 21:46 | unless using NEON, but some ARM processors don't actually support NEON so stuff won't be built with it enabled
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| 21:47 | <alkisg> Is there anyone working to support PXE in rpi?
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| 21:47 | I think uboot supports that in some arm device...
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| 21:47 | (so that no kernel/initrd is needed locally)
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| 21:47 | <gbaman> uboot worked on Pi1, but no one is working on it anymore
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| 21:47 | for the Pi that is
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| 21:48 | I don't think it worked on the B+ with the new USB splitter chip either
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| 21:48 | <alkisg> Do you have code that automatically updates the kernel/initrd in the pi sd card, when the nbd image contains a newer one?
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| 21:48 | and automatically reboots?
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| 21:48 | <gbaman> Yip
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| 21:49 | script in the initrd
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| 21:49 | <alkisg> Why don't you file a bug in ltsp to include that upstream?
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| 21:49 | <gbaman> Oh wait ignore that, forgot I ended up adding it to Raspbian in the end
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| 21:50 | Because it lives on the chroot image, pretty hacked together
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| 21:50 | https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP/blob/master/Scripts/kernelCheckUpdate.sh
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| 21:50 | Basically on boot, checks if newer files exist in a /bootfiles folder, it uses a version.txt file. If so, mounts SD card and writes new files, then reboots
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| 21:51 | The Raspi-LTSP itself, each time it is opened, it checks if the kernel files on the web are out of date, if so, it fetches them and updates the /bootfiles in the chroot
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| 21:51 | Works pretty nicely
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| 21:52 | In saying all of this though, I have yet to get Pi2 support working
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| 21:52 | Which might now be doable :)
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| 21:53 | <alkisg> gbaman: you should put that in /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d, not as a service...
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| 21:53 | <gbaman> Have had schools across the world emailing me asking when it is coming, just had a tweet from a charity asking when it is coming as they want to put Pi2s in a prison in Uganda :)
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| 21:53 | <alkisg> That way it would be less distro-specific and it would run sooner
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| 21:53 | <gbaman> oooo
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| 21:53 | Of yeah
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| 21:53 | Of course!
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| 21:53 | I stumbled across that ages ago
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| 21:54 | when trying to find what was slowing up some older builds booting
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| 21:54 | Because running sooner would be very helpful
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| 21:54 | As there isn't actually time to inform the user :)
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| 21:54 | it just reboots
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| 21:55 | <alkisg> /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/45-sync-local-kernel or something...
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| 21:55 | <gbaman> Are they blocking?
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| 21:55 | As in, only 1 is run at a time?
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| 21:55 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 21:55 | <gbaman> oooo
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| 21:55 | Am interested now
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| 21:55 | *even more interested
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