IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 4 February 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 15:26 | <sbalneav> jammcq: Pong
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| 15:27 | jammcq: Oh, looks to be up now.
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| 15:27 | Slow, though
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| 15:54 | <arj_> Hi! I have problems with qt apps, such as qupzilla, qtcreator, on thin client. They are renders very slow. Same problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2115560
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| 15:55 | How to fix it?
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> jammcq, sbalneav: nice to have the server up again :) Though it's always very very slow and hangs frequently and needs apache restart... maybe Hyperbyte could host it instead?
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| 17:24 | Hi vagrantc, do you have any plans to tag ltsp in the near future?
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> my plans seem to get perpetually delayed
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| 17:25 | * alkisg knows the feeling | |
| 17:25 | <vagrantc> might try for today
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseSchedule
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| 17:25 | 16 February 6th Debian Import Freeze
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| 17:25 | 18 February 20th FeatureFreeze
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| 17:26 | <vagrantc> the import freeze is irrelevent- that only applys to things that get automatically synced, and ubuntu carries a diff
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> True... btw note that you'll need a small packaging change,
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| 17:26 | I added a "--version" option to most of our scripts, but it needs to be generated by the build tools
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| 17:27 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2543
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| 17:27 | So the build tools need to update ltsp-common-functions
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| 17:27 | (--version and --help are mandatory, according to gnu policy... and it helped with older versions of help2man)
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| 17:28 | So, sed 's/ltsp_tool 1.0/ltsp_tool $version/' -i ltsp-common-functions...
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> could just ship a version file...
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| 17:31 | <alkisg> Sure, feel free to change that and echo $version in ltsp_version()...
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| 17:31 | But we'd need 2 files, one for server and one for client
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| 17:31 | <vagrantc> right
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| 17:31 | <alkisg> ltsp-common-functions was handy there because we already split it to 2 files
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| 17:33 | <vagrantc> having to distinguish between server and client version might be tricky...
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> The server tools source the server functions, the client tools the client functions
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| 17:33 | <vagrantc> yes, that's not hard, but how would the function know which to use?
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> The sourcing of the version file wouldn't go into -common, but into ltsp-server-functions / ltsp-client-functions
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| 17:35 | # Source common server settings, e.g. BASE
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| 17:35 | if [ -f /etc/ltsp/ltsp-server.conf ]; then
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| 17:35 | . /etc/ltsp/ltsp-server.conf
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| 17:35 | fi
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| 17:36 | ....something like that, which we already have there...
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| 17:37 | (or, from /usr/share/...)
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| 17:38 | <vagrantc> it's been a while since i looked this over ... ok, so we ship ltsp-server-functions and ltsp-client-functions, which source the corresponding common-functions ... so we'd have two identically named ltsp_version functions, instead of putting it into common-functions
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| 17:44 | maybe just sedding it in place is fine...
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| 18:08 | <alkisg> vagrantc: we'd have /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_server_version and /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp_client_version, but I don't see why sedding would be wrong, maybe even from the makefile
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| 18:08 | Or, a .in file
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| 18:09 | The ltsp-server-version file would contain LTSP_VERSION=xxx, and ltsp_version() would just echo it
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| 18:11 | <vagrantc> right
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| 18:11 | or simple cat it
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| 18:12 | any of these approaches would work...
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> cat would require ltsp_version() to be different, in order to know which file to cat
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| 18:12 | Sourcing would go to ltsp-server-functions, while ltsp_version() to common
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| 18:12 | <vagrantc> ah, i see.
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| 18:12 | <alkisg> In common we don't have an easy way to decide which file to source
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| 18:13 | * alkisg prefers sed or a file.in though | |
| 18:13 | <vagrantc> right
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| 18:14 | ok, so i'll have to sed it in the packaged version, but that shouldn't be hard since we already rename it in debian/rules
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> Yes I think I have it committed already in my packaging mirror... let me see...
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| 18:15 | vagrantc: https://code.launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/sch-scripts/ltsp-debian-packaging
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| 18:16 | ...I think those 2 are untested though...
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> is DEBVERS set?
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| 18:18 | <alkisg> Not sure...
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| 18:18 | We can read VERSION from release.conf if needed..
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| 18:20 | DEBVERS ?= $(shell dpkg-parsechangelog | sed -n -e 's/^Version: //p')
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| 18:20 | VERSION ?= $(shell echo '$(DEBVERS)' | sed -e 's/^[[:digit:]]*://' -e 's/[-].*//')
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| 18:20 | ...at least that's what google says
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| 18:20 | <vagrantc> yes, something like that
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| 18:20 | i just didn't see any such code there
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| 18:21 | alkisg: should it contain the upstream version, or the debian version?
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| 18:22 | reading from release.conf only works for released versions, i'd rather pull it from debian/changelog when building on debian derivatives
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| 18:23 | when i'm doing pre-release testing, i don't mess with release.conf at all
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| 18:23 | <alkisg> dpkg -l coreutils => 8.21-1ubuntu4, man cat => 8.21
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| 18:23 | ...so the usual would be "upstream version", but personally I'd prefer the debian version :)
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| 18:25 | * vagrantc is finding the meaningless launchpad translation updates disruptive... | |
| 18:25 | <vagrantc> makes it hard to see "what were the changes since the last time i tested this"
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| 18:26 | when 90% of the changes are changes to comments in the .po files
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| 18:27 | wish i could just ignore .po files...
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> OK, let's disable the ltsp-trunk translation commits too, until 1 day before tagging
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> this happens because something about our process deletes some file?
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the one reason i'd suggest using files instead of sed, would be if some other thing wanted to check what version was available without sourcing common-functions ...
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| 18:32 | alkisg: i.e. ltsp-info could check what version a chroot was
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| 18:33 | or what versions multiple chroots were ...
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| 18:34 | but it is more to keep track of
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| 18:35 | also, i.e. python, shell, c could all read the same file
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> (08:28:51 μμ) vagrantc: this happens because something about our process deletes some file? => no that was in ldm-trunk
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| 18:36 | (08:35:23 μμ) vagrantc: also, i.e. python, shell, c could all read the same file => good point
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| 18:37 | Although .c files would need it in a #define format, not in a VERSION=xxx format
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| 18:38 | And .py would probably need it in an __init__.py file, as __version etc etc
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> if it were just a file that contained the version, it would be easy enough to read
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> I think that's what makefiles are for... to replace version in source files
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| 18:39 | .h in C, .py in python, .sh in shell
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| 18:40 | I.e. maybe it makes more sense to leave it inside the source file, and when needed, create a makefile for other languages
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| 18:41 | So when needed, we'd have __init__.py.in, config.h.in, and ltsp-common-functions.in
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> but that doesn't allow things we don't build from source to read the version ... maybe ldm would want to know what version of ltsp, for example...
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> chroot $ROOT ltsp-info --version
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> doesn't work cross-arch
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> True...
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| 18:42 | <vagrantc> or chrootless
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> OK I agree for a shell file with VERSION=number, and when other languages need it we'll see
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> i think creating stubs for python and c are needlessly complicated
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| 18:44 | VERSION= shouldn't be hard to parse out in any language
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| 18:44 | so shell can simply source, and other languages can do what they need to do
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| 18:45 | <alkisg> I think compiled languages usually embed the version, so that tools like modinfo can read it without running the executables... but ok that doesn't matter much, we'll see then
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> although having server-side stuff possibly reset the VERSION= variable when reading client-side stuff ... need to pay some attention to that
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| 18:46 | no idea how extensively this will be used
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| 18:46 | really, iw as hoping to just upload and run :)
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| 18:47 | <alkisg> sed is fine, we don't have to solve the version problem right now
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| 18:48 | <alkisg> It was hardcoded until a couple of weeks ago, no need to change it now :)
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| 18:48 | We can do all those ^ nice things in ltsp 6...
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> suppose so
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| 18:58 | alkisg: what triggered the change at all? old versions of help2man? like in precise/wheezy?
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| 18:59 | alkisg: or more like lucid/squeeze/lenny ?
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| 19:00 | <alkisg> vagrantc: help2man in lenny, but --version is mandatory by gnu anyway
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| 19:01 | About debian vs upstream version again, another reason to use the debian version is because our man pages may be different between distros
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| 19:01 | (some things may only be supported in some of the distros)
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> makes sense
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| 19:04 | how do we get help2man working correctly during the build? there are all sources of files sourced that have full paths, no?
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| 19:04 | i mean, i've seen it work, but it surprises me
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| 19:05 | <alkisg> knipwim put an "if /usr/share/ltsp/* exists, source it, else try in ../../*" logic
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| 19:06 | ...the other way around more probably, relative first
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| 19:23 | * vagrantc glares as ALTLinux and nbd-proxy | |
| 19:27 | <vagrantc> if systemd does land as the default init for debian... i hope they provide an /sbin/init ...
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| 19:27 | upstart works like that, yes?
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| 19:28 | otherwise, we'll need to rethink how init=/sbin/init-ltsp works...
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| 19:28 | <ogra_> they provide everything
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| 19:28 | you cant even use syslog anymore once you have systemd
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| 19:29 | (crond, inetd, tftpd, syslog, dbus, init, udev ... are all swallowed by systemd, most cant be replaced with anything else without heavy investment to cut down systemd)
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| 19:30 | (dbus = system dbus here)
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| 19:32 | <vagrantc> yes, i'm not really pleased with seemingly overly tight coupling/bundling of so much functionality
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| 19:32 | <ogra_> yup
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| 19:32 | and it indeed completely ties you to the kernel version through kdbus
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> the whole debate is tiresome
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| 19:33 | <ogra_> it is ...
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| 19:34 | <ogra_> what bothers me is that something like running debian on top of a 3.0 android kernel will become impossible
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| 19:34 | (well, unless you patch the needed bits into the kernel etc)
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, that didn't appear to work
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| 21:00 | alkisg: the substitutions didn't take ...
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| 21:00 | <vagrantc> probably some weird makefile/shell quoting issues
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| 22:48 | * vagrantc sighs | |
| 22:48 | <vagrantc> i spend hours and hours trying to get this code to build with the new version code sedded in...
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| 22:48 | and the manpages still include the wrong version string.
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| 22:49 | the worst is, i still don't even know what actually fixed it....
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| 22:49 | well, "fixed" it.
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| 22:51 | the manpages are generated before we fix the version
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| 22:52 | <vagrantc> and use the in-source copy rather than the version in the package
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| 23:22 | <vagrantc> well, that's no fun.
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| 23:22 | meh.
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| 23:23 | whole day spent supporting an ancient version of debian that i don't have any interest in, and still no ltsp upload :(
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