IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 September 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:17 | <joulez> hi, i just upgraded from lenny->squeeze, all good, except with kde4 when a usb device is plugged in it shows up in /media/<user>/<label> but no notification? any tips?
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| 01:28 | <joulez> hi, is anything suppose to run on port 9571? I get a few msgs like this on client boot up.
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| 01:29 | nvm lvminfod
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| 06:29 | <mrcarrot> I anyone able to point me to some good documentation on how to use fat clients through ltsp on debian 6?
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| 06:52 | <mealstrom> good morning :D
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| 06:52 | <mealstrom> mrcarrot: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients this can help you
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| 06:53 | does anyone use jitsi (sip phone ) ?
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| 06:55 | <alkisg> mrcarrot: just make sure to use wheezy :)
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| 07:11 | <mrcarrot> alkisg: It is not released yet (as I know). I do not dare to upgrade until it has stabilized.
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| 07:11 | mealstrom: It is not working for squeeze.
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> mrcarrot: at least try to get the wheezy ltsp packages, from backports or with apt pinning etc
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| 07:14 | <mrcarrot> alkisg: There is no ltsp in backports...
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| 07:15 | I would be in deep trouble if an upgrade to wheezy would fail. I am maintaining ltsp servers for 7 schools...
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| 07:18 | I would have a chance to experiment during summer vacation, but now whatever I do needs to work immediately.
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| 08:53 | <Guest30686> hello?
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| 08:56 | <knipwim> hi
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| 08:57 | <Hyperbyte> Hey hey hey!
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| 08:58 | <Guest30686> wanted to ask for help if anyone has time.
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| 08:59 | <knipwim> depends on the question i guess
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| 08:59 | <Guest30686> having trouble logging in on a thin client. kiwi-ltsp on opensuse12.2
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| 09:00 | <knipwim> what kind of trouble?
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| 09:01 | <Guest30686> will not log in. able to pxe boot, comes to the login screen. none of usernames will logon though.
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| 09:02 | <knipwim> have you done a ltsp-update-sshkeys?
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| 09:02 | i'm guessing it's a new install
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| 09:03 | <Guest30686> installed it sunday, tested the logon with one of the clients that night no problems. father spent the next day setting everything else up now it wont logon.
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| 09:04 | havnt done ltsp-update-sshkeys.
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| 09:05 | he is trying to reinstall the ltsp right now.
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| 09:05 | <Hyperbyte> Guest30686, you don't -reinstall- when something doesn't work
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| 09:05 | This isn't Windows.
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| 09:05 | Did the IP address of the machine change?
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| 09:06 | If so, you have to run the command ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 09:06 | !ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 09:06 | <ltsp> ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
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| 09:06 | <Guest30686> bad choice of words maybe. still learning.
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| 09:08 | we did change the ip for the card on the internal zone. pxe boot would not work after that. ran command kiwi-ltsp -c and boot worked again, but no login. what is the command to update sshkeys?
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| 09:10 | okay did the update for the keys.
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| 09:11 | still no login.
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| 09:13 | <azazel> hi all
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| 09:15 | anyone has any clue why with an ubuntu 12.04 ltsp client when i setup a local printer in my lts.conf the client's boot process hangs (without logging anything useful?)
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| 09:25 | <Hyperbyte> azazel:
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| 09:25 | !quiet-splash
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| 09:25 | <ltsp> quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run `sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default` and remove quiet splash .
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| 09:26 | <Hyperbyte> The same would probably be useful for you as well, Guest30686, so you know where things go wrong.
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| 09:30 | <knipwim> Hyperbyte: but he's using Suse
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| 09:30 | <Hyperbyte> Should be comparable shouldn't it?
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| 09:30 | <knipwim> Guest30686: you issues the ltsp-update-sshkeys when the client was powered off?
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| 09:34 | <Guest30686> I think the command on the server, client was off i think.
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| 09:35 | <knipwim> Guest30686: what you can do next is watch the server logs and see what happens when you tried to login
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| 09:39 | <Guest30686> okay we are going to call it a night, niether of us can think straight right now. Thank you very much for the help and your time. will try looking at logs in the morning.
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| 09:51 | <azazel> Hyperbyte: thanks, but i've disabled splash screen already, and it doesn't print anything anyway, i'm thinking that maybe something needed to run the local print server isn't installed by default by ubuntu's ltsp-build-client command?
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| 09:55 | <Hyperbyte> azazel, that doesn't seem very likely. I don't know though, no experience with local printers.
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| 12:24 | <muppis> https://github.com/bilange/jetpipe
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| 12:26 | <ogra_> uh, he had better taken the rewritten code
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| 12:27 | seems he based on my first iteration, jetpipe has undergone a bunch of changes since (should eb in upstream ltsp)
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| 12:27 | s/eb/be/
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> Jetpipe in C sounds good, more RAM savings :D
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| 12:28 | <ogra_> definitely
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| 12:29 | but basing on my first prototype code from feisty wasnt so clever i think :)
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> I wonder how lightweight is his thin client solution...
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| 12:30 | ...or, what are those altlinux guys doing to get the kernel + X to fit in 16mb ram!
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| 12:30 | <ogra_> well, he says its all static
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> Even tinycorelinux doesn't boot with < 48 RAM
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| 12:30 | <ogra_> i can get you a fully functional commandline rootfs in under 4M
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> Not with xorg though
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| 12:31 | <ogra_> (filesystem size that is)
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> I don't mind the chroot size
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| 12:31 | <ogra_> no, trhat requires a bit more
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| 12:31 | but 20 or so should be doable
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> It might as well be 1 Gb, I don't care at all, it's the RAM I can't strip more than 64mb
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| 12:31 | * ogra_ is just working on a tool that builds embedded rootfses ;) | |
| 12:31 | <ogra_> (based on initramfs tools)
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> ogra_: do I need to rebuild the kernel, or just "modules=dep" is enough?
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| 12:32 | <ogra_> my core filesystem is 3.5M
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> (I don't care about the initramfs size either)
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| 12:32 | <ogra_> well, it sits in ram :)
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| 12:32 | and eats it
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> Not after the initial booting though
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| 12:32 | <ogra_> if it uses to much you wont be able to mouont /
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> AFAIK its memory is cleared after the switch to rootfs
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| 12:32 | <ogra_> right
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> True, I had to remove plymouth to get 12.04 to boot with 64mb, but that's not the problem
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| 12:33 | <ogra_> being able to do that switch is the point :)
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> The problem is that in the rootfs we still need > 64mb...
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| 12:33 | <ogra_> and thats a matter of initrd size
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> (currently, >= 128mb in 12.04)
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| 12:33 | <ogra_> right, you would need to cut down a lot
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| 12:33 | and do things like switch everything to upstart jobs etc
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| 12:33 | <alkisg> But how? initramfs size doesn't matter, no services loaded at all... what else is there to cut down?
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| 12:33 | I.e. from the kernel + xorg side..
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| 12:34 | <ogra_> the prob is that we will likely load a lot of generic and backwards compatibility cruft that you dont really need
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Like what? No services loaded at all, it's only kernel + xorg processes that eat up all that ram
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| 12:34 | I don't even run dbus there
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| 12:34 | Just udev
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| 12:34 | <ogra_> cut down the kernel then
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> Right, how?
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| 12:34 | modules=dep?
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| 12:35 | Or would it need a custom build?
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| 12:35 | <ogra_> dropping compiled in stuff you dont nedcessarily need on a thin client
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| 12:35 | oh, not the initrd, the kernel itself
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| 12:35 | <alkisg> Right, that's what I was afraid of
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| 12:35 | <ogra_> switch to module what you can
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| 12:35 | and drop what thin clients dont need
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| 12:35 | tht should give you a way smaller kernel binary
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> So I'd better start with the atllinux kernel config and walk my way through there... maybe even publish a kernel in some ppa...
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| 12:36 | <ogra_> i.e. switch all filesystems to modules
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> Right
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| 12:36 | <ogra_> and only include the fs module for your actual rootfs
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| 12:36 | etc etc
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> And no fancy hardware compiled-in either
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| 12:37 | <ogra_> there should be minimal configs out there, just start from such a config and slowly enable bit by bit until it boots
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| 12:37 | then find a community of testers with different HW and enable everything needed so that they can boot as well
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> How long does it take to compile a kernel on e.g. a core 2 duo laptop? An hour?
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| 12:37 | <ogra_> likely, yeah
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> Cool, I'll try it then, worth the trouble
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| 12:38 | <ogra_> i can cross compile an arm kernel in 4min here in a ramdisk though
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| 12:38 | (quad core i5, 16G ram)
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| 12:38 | my lappie does the same in 45min -1h
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| 12:38 | (and my arm board in 1.5h :) )
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| 12:40 | <alkisg> Nice. Well, first I have to solve the problem with the keyboard layout being broken in default installations of 12.04+... I hate that they break it on _every_ release and it takes many months to find the new patch and get it accepted.. :-/
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| 12:41 | First gdm, then gdm2, then lightdm, then accountsservice, then ubiquity... everyone wants to set their own kbd layout, none just respects the xorg settings :(
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| 12:41 | <ogra_> dont you pull in the default layout from the server ?
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| 12:41 | <alkisg> Not in LTSP clients, those work fine, it's the server we're having problems with
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| 12:41 | (or just standalone ubuntu installations)
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| 12:41 | And it affects many many countries, I wonder why noone has stepped up yet to fix it...
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| 12:41 | <ogra_> all keyboard layout should be done in /etc/default/console-setup and /etc/default/keyboard
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> Right, unfortunately all the above ^ programs want to have a setting of theirserves
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| 12:42 | *selves
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| 12:42 | <ogra_> after changing anything you run sudo dpkg-reconfigure console-setup
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> xterm has the kbd layout fine
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| 12:42 | <ogra_> that cant really be and would be a gross bug
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> And it's on *every* ubuntu release, on a different component each time...
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| 12:43 | <ogra_> i know for sure that lightdm defaults to what it finds in /etc/default/keyboard
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> I've send 3-4 patches so far, but I haven't had time to properly troubleshoot it yet for 12.04/12.10
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| 12:43 | <ogra_> never used accountservice ... i thought thats a quantal thing
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> Now I think the problem is accountsservice, lightdm AND ubiquity (all of them!)
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| 12:43 | No it's 12.04+
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| 12:43 | <ogra_> ubiquity indeed needs to be different since /etc/default isnt populated prior to install
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| 12:44 | (and people can select kbd layout at the grub/syslinux/isolinux level for it)
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> Right, that's what I did, produced a live cd with greek preselected in isolinux
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| 12:45 | But then after the installation the problem came up again
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| 12:45 | If I let ubiquity-dm run, the layout was broken
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| 12:45 | With plain ubiquity it was ok, the xorg default
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| 12:46 | <ogra_> hmm, might be that casper sets a fallback somewhere
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| 12:46 | <alkisg> I tried asking in #ubuntu-devel a number of times, in case someone can point me to the right direction (e.g. how ubiquity-dm gets the kbd settings), but noone stepped up to help in troubleshooting it
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| 12:47 | <ogra_> check the casper scripts, could well be that it does some initial setup
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| 12:47 | ubiquity-dm should just pick up from xorg ...
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| 12:47 | <alkisg> Casper is ok, without ubiquity-dm everything works fine
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| 12:48 | (the tryout ubuntu/install ubuntu dialog)
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| 12:48 | <ogra_> is there anything you can type ?
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| 12:48 | i thought thats just the two buttons
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> There are panel applets there, you can find dialogs to type there
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| 12:49 | <ogra_> ah, k
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> But the session after ubiquity-dm is affected as well
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| 12:49 | So e.g. a greek user can't type an english username!
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| 12:49 | They have to install to english first, and install greek after the initial installation,
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| 12:50 | or know how to apply the keyboard settings through the gnome-panel applet
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| 12:50 | And that affects all languages that have multiple layouts... e.g. it/en
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| 12:51 | <ogra_> hmm, seems bin/ubiquity-dm has handling for locales but nothing for keyboards
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| 12:52 | smells like you need to patch it
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| 12:53 | <alkisg> For now I opted out to create a custom live cd and tell greek schools to use that one instead,
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| 12:53 | so the installation is now OK, but I still have problems after the initial installation
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| 12:53 | ...soooo much patching... :(
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| 12:54 | Really, patch for gdm, then gdm2, then lightdm... now ubiquity-dm, accounts-service, when will it stop?! :D
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| 12:55 | <ogra_> well, they are all bugs
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| 12:55 | accounts-service definitely needs to use the system kbd settings
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| 12:55 | as every DM should
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| 12:56 | <alkisg> I reported that, no answer there...
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| 12:56 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/1016409
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| 12:59 | <ogra_> well, seb answered it so its not ignored at least
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| 13:17 | <irule> a good doc on debian/ltsp?
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| 13:17 | mornin!
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| 13:18 | <ogra_> apt-get install ltsp-docs ?
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| 13:18 | (or was it -doc ... cant remember)
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| 13:19 | <irule> ok thanks
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| 14:23 | <mikec> is there a method to keep ltsp cluster application servers identical?
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| 14:26 | <mgariepy> mikec, yes, using central management tools like pupet/bcfg2/chef can help keep applications server close enough. ;)
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| 14:34 | <mikec> ok. was wondering if i had to do something 3rd party.
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| 14:35 | now im curious as to what is more popular among those central management tools for those using ltsp cluster
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| 14:58 | <mgariepy> mikec, if you would invest time in learning one of those i would suggest you using puppet.
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| 15:00 | mikec, i use bcfg2 but it's not very popular and there is a much bigger communinty on puppet. http://www.example42.com/
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| 18:26 | <alkisg> We might want to implement an ltsp-chroot -x parameter, that copies $XAUTHORITY to $CHROOT/tmp, in order to be able to launch installers that require X inside the chroot...
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| 18:27 | (dev and dev/pts also need to be mounted for that of course)
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| 20:08 | <ltspuser_05> up
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| 20:10 | Sep 12 17:09:44 servidor dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on 192.168.20.20 to 00:40:ca:6b:66:4b via eth1 Sep 12 17:09:44 servidor dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for 192.168.20.20 (192.168.20.1) from 00:40:ca:6b:66:4b via eth1 Sep 12 17:09:44 servidor dhcpd: DHCPACK on 192.168.20.20 to 00:40:ca:6b:66:4b via eth1
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| 20:11 | hello, my syslog stop there
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| 20:11 | have tftp-hpa and nbd-server on edubuntu 10.04 configured
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| 20:11 | any ideas, please?
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| 20:19 | <Hyperbyte> ltspuser_05, what happens when the client boots?
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| 20:23 | <ltspuser_05> Hyperbyte: the client get white screen, and the log go until DHCPACK
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| 20:23 | Hyperbyte: thin client image http://bimg1.mlstatic.com/thin-client-fic-genesis-ii-com-fonte-e-linux-instalado-_MLB-F-3034931637_082012.jpg
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| 20:51 | <Hyperbyte> ltspuser_05, which processor architecture is your thin client? And which architecture is your chroot?
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