IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 March 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:35 | <Ctek> Hy guys, has anyone used Easy-LTSP on ubuntu ?
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| 11:58 | <plasticdoc> Could someone, please, point me to documentation about the lts.conf options? Were there any changes in the latest 5.2?
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> !lts.conf
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| 12:02 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: "lts.conf" :: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 12:02 | <alkisg> plasticdoc: many, many options are undocumented...
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| 12:02 | So yes, there were changes for 5.2, but the only way to be sure would be to read the sources :)
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| 12:08 | <johnny> perhaps we have too many..
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| 12:09 | <alkisg> The worst thing is that we have them in a single file... we must make it http based asap
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| 12:09 | (reuse cluster code or merge the two methods in a new one or something...)
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| 12:11 | <vagrantc> bah
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| 12:12 | the insistance on "worst" and "must" is wearisome :P
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| 12:12 | <alkisg> Excuse my lack in english, but we can't even make a proper GUI now
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| 12:12 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 12:13 | <alkisg> Given an lts.conf, it's really difficult to parse it and then save it properly
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| 12:13 | <vagrantc> ah, i see what you mean
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| 12:14 | it is a very standard configuration file format... there must be tools to parse that sort of thing.
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> I've been trying with python's ConfigParser, but it doesn't help...
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| 12:15 | We "should" ;) allow for an lts.conf.d/ directory, where vendors/packages/sysadmins could drop files there...
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| 12:18 | <vagrantc> i'm generally fond of .d directories ... almost to a fault :)
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> (and not only configuration files, but code as well - if client_ram < xxx then param123=yyy...)
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| 12:18 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, we've got ltsp_config.d ... that should handle code-side.
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> That's on the client, not on the server
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| 12:18 | <vagrantc> ah, back to this thing :)
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| 12:19 | <alkisg> It can't decide what username to send based on ip/time/class...
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| 12:19 | <vagrantc> but it could be a plugin that asks the server
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> Indeed, a plugin could send some information to the server and get some configuration values
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| 12:21 | But that plugin would offer more than lts.conf itself, so it could just replace it completely...
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| 12:22 | <vagrantc> why bother replacing it?
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| 12:22 | that's the part i just don't get.
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| 12:22 | we already have the infrastructure to make it unecessary... to force it to disappear seems gratuitous
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> What's the point of supporting html 3 when html 5 is out?
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| 12:24 | Given the right tools, ltsp.conf.d, GUI editing etc, why would we need to keep supporting the old lts.conf syntax, and depend on bison/flex etc?
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> what's the point of dropping support?
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| 12:24 | the code has barely needed changes for some 10 years now... it's not like it's a high-maintenance piece of code.
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> Anyway my point is not in dropping support or not - it's that we need some additional functionality
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 12:25 | :)
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> vagrantc, about ltsp_config.d, shouldn't that dir be created by ltsp-client-core?
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: only if it puts something in there by default...
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> Couldn't it be in debian/dirs?
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: why do you even need it?
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> For example, to provide some side-wide defaults
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| 13:25 | <vagrantc> packages that need to put something in there will create it ... admins can create it
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> E.g. LDM_DIRECTX=${LDM_DIRECTX:-True}
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| 13:25 | <vagrantc> yes, i understand how to use it :)
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> Heh, yeah, I'm the one that tries to understand here :)
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| 13:26 | <vagrantc> although admins should really be creating custom ones in /etc/ltsp/ltsp_config.d, though i didn't add support for that (yet)
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so, for example, could I move there some upstream code to provide some defaults for fat clients?
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| 13:27 | (move the existing code from ltsp_config, that is...)
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| 13:27 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 13:27 | <alkisg> E.g. if LTSP_FATCLiENT then LOCALDEV=False...
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| 13:27 | OK, thanks
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| 13:28 | <vagrantc> i was tempted to split ltsp_config into snippets in ltsp_config.d ... but i resisted the change just to keep it minimal
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| 13:29 | <alkisg> It would be better imho - e.g. we could provide an "ltsp-fat-client" package that way, which could be added/removed at anytime, not only on ltsp-build-client...
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> yes, that sounds like a much better way to handle it
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| 13:30 | then you get dependency resolution for package dependencies, which is much easier than hard-coding it in the plugins and such
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| 13:49 | <plasticdoc> Do you know if in LTSP 5.2 we still do need to use X_RAMPERC=80 to avoid the Firefox/Openoffice "Pixmap caching" bug?
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| 13:51 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: it's not so much LTSP but the firefox or openoffice versions
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| 13:52 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: sorry? I did not understand what you meant.
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: it is bugs in firefox or openoffice that make setting X_RAMPERC necessary, so the versions of those is what matters, not the version of LTSP
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| 13:54 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: Oh, I see. Thank you.
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> haven't heard recent noise about the issue, so hopefully it's at least partially resolved in recent versions
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| 13:54 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: I am just trying to get rid of lots of config tweaks that linger around my lts.conf files
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| 13:55 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: nothing like testing to verify for sure
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| 13:55 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: I am very afraid to upset my users and delete those lines, just to discover latter that they are still needed.
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| 13:56 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: so, configure one machine to not use it and test it
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| 13:56 | or leave it in :)
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| 13:59 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: ...configure one machine... I have it in the [default] section. To change I will have to create lots of [aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff] LIKE = SomeOldSettingsMachine.
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| 14:00 | vagrantc: but I will give it a try.
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| 14:00 | vagrantc: Thank you.
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: you can do the other way around ... just configure one machine with X_RAMPERC=100
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| 14:10 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: X_RAMPERC=100 ? Will it work like that?
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| 14:11 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: that's what i'm trying to tell you :P
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| 14:13 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: After all it seems that there is an easy way... I will try that with a few users and see if they start reporting problems. Thank you.
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| 14:14 | <php_szg> hi folks, I'm a little confused about LTSP's boot process; the subnet I want (and right now, have) to use is behind NAT.
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| 14:15 | there are 2 DHCP servers running there, I have access only to one of those
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| 14:15 | I have only dumb switches
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| 14:16 | what I'm confused about is the behavior of the 2 DHCP requests
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| 14:17 | both servers respond to PXE queries, but my client always boots (w/PXE) from the "right" one and always gets an IP from the another during bootup
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| 14:18 | of course, it boots fine if I unplug my uplink connection
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| 14:20 | I'm just trying to come up with a solution to this issue. Is there any way to set a static IP as the server address
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| 14:21 | so the client can connect to the "right" box and won't bail out to an initramfs prompt?
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> php_szg: i have to run soon, but you'll probably want to use IPAPPEND in your pxelinux.cfg/default menu
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| 14:22 | alkisg is the master of IPAPPEND
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| 14:22 | <php_szg> vagrantc: thanks; I'll check that
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> php_szg: why do you have 2 dhcp servers?
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| 14:25 | If one of them is the ltsp server, you'd better just turn it off
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| 14:25 | Or, isolate it to a separate subnet
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| 14:34 | <moldy> alkisg: hi
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| 14:35 | (a
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| 14:35 | oops :)
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> Hi moldy :)
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| 14:35 | <moldy> alkisg: about your question in #lns: yes, we have been thinking about doing this
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> Did you find any good way?
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| 14:36 | (for the server to send commands to the clients...)
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| 14:36 | <moldy> i haven't really put any research into this yet
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| 14:36 | i did experiment with a helper daemon running inside the user session at some point
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| 14:37 | <moldy> alkisg: but if you just want to run some command like firefox in the user session, we have a working implementation for that
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| 14:38 | alkisg: right now, it only works for gnome sessions, though
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> moldy: but it only works for thin clients, right?
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| 14:38 | I.e. it wouldn't work for fat clients...
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| 14:39 | <moldy> alkisg: right
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| 14:39 | alkisg: for fat client, you would use ssh, i guess
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> I'd prefer something like (from the client): ssh <use-control-socket> server command-listener | command-executioner
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| 14:40 | Currently I'm installing openssh-server on the thin/fat clients, but it's not a good approach...
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| 14:40 | I'd like to use reverse connections instead, the clients should connect to the server
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> I've been looking at socat, xmlrpc, ssh -R, gabriel and other alternatives, but I'm not sure what's the best solution here
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| 14:41 | (I'd also like it to be extra slim, to keep the thin client requirements low)
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| 14:46 | <php_szg> alkisg: I have access to only one of those. Provided that I'm the only one using the whole infrastructure, "ipappend 1" turned out to be a painless and fast solution :)
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| 16:58 | <moldy> hi
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| 16:59 | alkisg: hi again. sorry, the box that runs my irc client got into trouble.
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| 16:59 | <alkisg> np
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| 16:59 | <moldy> alkisg: alkisg i don't have irc logs, can you repeat your last 2 or so messages? :)
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> moldy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/398488/
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| 17:17 | <moldy> alkisg: thanks. ssh <use-control-socket> server command-listener | command-executioner <-- that sounds good to me
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| 17:17 | alkisg: i talked to yanqui about xmlrpc over ssl, but i would prefer to use ssh if possible
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> moldy: that's what I'd like too, but I haven't sorted out the redirections yet
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| 17:18 | <moldy> but well, tcm development is more or less stalled at the moment, anyway
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter, if we find a good way I could implement it and then you could copy the code whenever you continue with tcm
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| 17:18 | <moldy> yanqui is very busy, and it's not much different with me
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| 17:18 | yup, that would be nice
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| 17:19 | <alkisg> The problem is that the | operator is one-way
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| 17:20 | So I probably need to code it in some programming language for a 2 way communication, so that the server not only sends commands, but it also receives the output
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| 17:20 | E.g. echo hostname
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| 17:20 | read output ==> the client hostname
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| 17:20 | echo whoami
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| 17:20 | read output ==> the user, etc
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| 17:20 | I've currently implemented this with openbsd-inet and with nc on the client, but I'd like to use the ssh channel instead of nc
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| 17:22 | <moldy> grmbl
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 17:22 | <moldy> this box is having routing trouble... stupid hoster uses broken dhcp
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> http://alkisg.pastebin.com/2JarZyHC
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| 17:24 | <moldy> thx. yep, yep.
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| 17:25 | i might be on-and-off another 2 times or so :)
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| 18:10 | <Ctek> If i move the image created from the LTSP server to a machine with just PXE and share the image via FTP will it work ?
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| 18:11 | I mean i only use the ltsp server to create the image and then use another machine to serv the pxe image and the client image via shares or ftp
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| 18:12 | <johnny> huh
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| 18:12 | you can move the tftp image to another server sure
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| 18:12 | but is there a reason you want to do that?
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| 18:13 | why not just point your dhcp server at your ltsp machine? or are you already running a tftp server on that machine?
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| 18:13 | Ctek, ^
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| 18:13 | <Ctek> yes... to use just one machine
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| 18:13 | <johnny> huh?
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| 18:13 | do you already have a tftp server?
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| 18:13 | <Ctek> yes, and a ldap and samba DC
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| 18:13 | <johnny> you can't serve ltsp from windows
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| 18:14 | <Ctek> the machine is linux
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| 18:14 | <johnny> you can't serve anything ltsp related on shares for regular ftp
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| 18:14 | <Ctek> I use ebox from ebox-platform
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| 18:14 | <johnny> not sure why you would imagine you could
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| 18:14 | <Ctek> hm...
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| 18:14 | <johnny> sorry.. that's impossible unless they have an ltsp 5 package
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| 18:14 | in which case you would just install ltsp 5 on that server
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| 18:15 | <Ctek> i'm afraid that if i install the ltsp server into the ebox server (most likely) i'll broke it
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| 18:15 | <johnny> you can certainly serve the tftp files from that server
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| 18:15 | i would recommend against it
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| 18:15 | as then you would have to install a gui on the server too
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| 18:15 | <Ctek> i wanted to do something like so on a image and authenticate against the ebox ldap and use the roaming profiles ...
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| 18:16 | <johnny> you can still do auth via ldap and roaming profiles
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| 18:16 | but really ltsp is roaming
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| 18:16 | already
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| 18:16 | if you wanted to
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| 18:16 | but sure.. you could use ltsp cluster perhaps
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| 18:16 | <Ctek> hm, i see what you say...
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| 18:16 | <johnny> check out ltsp-cluster.org
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| 18:17 | <Ctek> i think that i'll do a custom image of "damn small linux" integrated into my domain and serv it via pxe
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| 18:18 | my need was to just "shove" the so to the fat clients and use the ebox as DC + profiles... but i think it dosen't work like i wanted :D
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| 18:20 | Anyway thank you for the advices and i'll keep on reading maybe i reach my goal afterall
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| 18:39 | <plasticdoc> stgraber: could you point me to an howto or something like that, on how to SSH log into the main server from a thin client, and perform all the admin activities like if I were at the server keyboard & screen (i.e., at the real server, not the thin client chrooted environment)?
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| 18:40 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: that's the normal behavior of LTSP.
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| 18:40 | plasticdoc: you're usually logged into the server, the thin client is just a monitor/keyboard/mouse essentially.
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| 18:46 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i just uploaded ltsp-docs to debian/sid ... you might want to pull it if you can still
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| 18:46 | <plasticdoc> vagrantc: You mean: if I am an user listed at admin in the server's /etc/group file, if I issue an sudo aptitude update; sudo aptitude install some_program, I will be doing that at the server and not inside the chrooted env?
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| 18:47 | <moldy> plasticdoc: exactly
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| 18:47 | plasticdoc: once you logged in, all programs you run run on the server
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| 18:50 | <vagrantc> plasticdoc: sounds like you've got it. :)
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| 18:51 | <plasticdoc> moldy: You mean that I may admin/update/install/uninstall from any thin client terminal, and not at the server room at the server's screen/keyboard/mouse?
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| 18:51 | <moldy> plasticdoc: yes
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| 18:51 | <vagrantc> yes :)
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| 18:52 | <moldy> plasticdoc: if you want to run stuff on the client, then you need to do something "special". the normal case is that everything runs on the server.
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| 18:54 | <plasticdoc> If I told you that I am successfully administering a rather complex LTSP for almost 3 years, and suffering with a rather noisy pair of high availability servers each time I need to upgrade/install/remove software... WOULD YOU BELIEVE?
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| 18:55 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 18:55 | <plasticdoc> :'(
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| 18:56 | <vagrantc> the suffering ends here :)
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| 18:56 | welcome to one of the best features of LTSP.
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| 18:56 | <plasticdoc> Am I happy!
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| 18:59 | But wait, I am sure that there are apps, right now I remember OpenBravo (Java based), that if you install/reconfigure from a terminal it will be jammed and not work anymore.
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| 19:00 | Are there any known problems with Java Tomcat served apps that you know of?
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| 19:09 | vagrantc: One other rather annoying problem are the exact ports that one must keep open in order to feed the thin clients and keep them happy. Could you, please, point me to credible info on what is really needed in LTSP 5.2? Is it 22, 53, 69 (or is it 67-69?), 137-139, 445, 514, 9571-9572, 9100?
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> ltsp5 with ldm uses port 22 for sure. 9571-9572 are used for ldminfod and maybe nbdswapd? 2000 is used for NBD images on ubuntu, at least. don't remember what ports NFS uses, but some distros (debian) still use NFS by default.
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| 19:11 | <moldy> 53 is dns, iirc
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| 19:12 | so you only need to keep that open if your server is the dns server for your network
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| 19:12 | 137-139 and 445 are smb/cifs/samba
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| 19:19 | <plasticdoc> moldy: do we still need 137-139 and 445, even if we do not have anything windows/MSFT at our network?
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| 19:21 | <plasticdoc> What about 69/tcp tftp, 67/udp, 68/udp for dhcp?
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| 21:01 | <moldy> plasticdoc: no, you don't need 137-139 and 445 unless you do samba
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