IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 9 May 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:07 | <work_alkisg> So, ops in this channel are: Mistik1, jammcq, jstraw, sbalneav and knipwim
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| 06:07 | work_alkisg is now known as alkisg | |
| 06:07 | <alkisg> sbalneav: can you make the bot op?
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| 06:08 | Otherwise we're not able to e.g. change the /topic, and e.g. remove the stackexchange proposal...
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| 10:17 | <lelele> hi everybody
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| 10:18 | aniwhere know the place where the LTSP client save the log? i'm using fat clients
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| 10:18 | <alkisg> In /var/log, like normal
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| 11:28 | <khildin> what would be the best way to secure iTalc... I am in a situation that it sometimes occurs that teachers forget to log out their session or forget to lock their screen....
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| 11:28 | and it already happened some brat was able to get the private key... :-/
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| 14:08 | <brianr> good morning!
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| 14:09 | yesterday I was asking about an nbd issue i was having
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| 14:10 | basically i run into an issue where my thin clients, while booting, will be dropped to a busybox
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| 14:10 | they get an error about mounting /dev/nb0 on /root failed invalid argument
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| 14:11 | /scripts/init-bottom/ltsp /usr/bin/test
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| 14:11 | /scripts/init-bottom/ltsp /usr/bin/test line 27 panic not founf
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> Write this in the client busybox, and tell us its output: grep ROOTSERVER /*/net*.conf
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| 14:13 | <brianr> ok, so i cannot like make one fail cause its a production environment
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> You don't have a test client that fails?
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| 14:15 | <brianr> no, because that would mean that a production client is probably not working
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> If you cannot provide real-time feedback, irc is not suitable, try the ltsp mailing list
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| 14:15 | <mmetzger> I have the same problem (Ubuntu 14.04)
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| 14:15 | Get:
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| 14:15 | <brianr> to correct the issue, as root i have to run /bin/nbd-server and then some more can login
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| 14:15 | <mmetzger> grep: /tmp/net0-eth0.conf: No such file or directory
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> brianr: that doesn't help in troubleshooting, sorry
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| 14:16 | <brianr> or more precisely more can boot
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Try again in IRC when you have a client in busybox, or try the mailing list where you can give feedback when the problem happens again.
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| 14:17 | In IRC one can't wait 5-6 hours until the problem happens again, to get the next line of feedback...
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| 14:18 | <brianr> so, that problem is pretty unique? your not seeing anyone else with a similar problem?
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| 14:18 | <alkisg> There are 3-4 similar problems, and all require troubleshooting
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| 14:18 | <mmetzger> I am running into the same error.
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> And I'm sure there are others that we haven't yet seen, like the one with missing /run at init-premount, that mmetzger mentions
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| 14:19 | <mmetzger> (or not)
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| 14:19 | <alkisg> mmetzger: /tmp/net-eth0.conf is a symlink to /run/net-eth0.conf, and that second file isn't there?
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| 14:19 | ls -l /*/net*.conf
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| 14:20 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Nothing in /run
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| 14:20 | <alkisg> And what is /tmp/net-eth0.conf?
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| 14:20 | A symlink or a file?
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| 14:20 | <mmetzger> Symlink as you mentioned
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> Yeah it's a new issue, first heard of it 3 days ago, was I talking with you again or with someone else?
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| 14:21 | <mmetzger> I think you were speaking with Chap
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> Right, same issue there
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| 14:21 | Is it always reproducible? Or it only happens some times?
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| 14:22 | <mmetzger> Happens for me everytime. 64bit server, 64bit client.
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| 14:22 | <brianr> just some additional observations ... after rebooting the LTS box, i went around and restarted the thin clients. 23 booted, then the 2th failed and i had to start another nbd-server process, then about 6 more booted, i started another nbd-server process and the remaining 6 were able to boot
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| 14:22 | *24th
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> brianr: on the server, check /var/log/syslog for messages about nbd-server segfaulting
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| 14:22 | <brianr> nada
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| 14:23 | <alkisg> If so, update your nbd-server, there was a known problem about that
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| 14:24 | mmetzger: put break=premount in pxelinux.cfg/default, replacing 'quiet splash' there
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| 14:24 | When you get a busybox shell, check the messages that you see *after* the prompt, if any, and then, run: /scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 14:25 | And then ls -l /*/net*.conf
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| 14:25 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Will do - will take a few moments. And thank you for the assistance.
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| 14:25 | <vmlintu> brianr: if the problem is that with a trusty client first boot works and second not, it's a kernel bug
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| 14:27 | <brianr> its 13.10, all up to date
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| 14:27 | <vmlintu> brianr: ok, then it's another bug
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| 14:28 | <brianr> screenshot of error: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2mh9UJ2G6hHVnAtSkpWNy1VLVU/edit?pli=1
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| 14:29 | <vmlintu> brianr: which kernel are you using?
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| 14:30 | <brianr> i wasn't really expecting live troubleshooting ... but i can't really find any good leads on the issue to troubleshoot itt
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| 14:30 | inux version 3.11.0-20-generic
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| 14:31 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Only message post prompt is "random: nonblocking pool is initialized"
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| 14:31 | alkisg: Ran udhcp script, got IP
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| 14:31 | alkisg: Now have existing /run/net-eth0.conf file
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> mmetzger: now type exit
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| 14:32 | See if it boots that way
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| 14:32 | <vmlintu> brianr: we did have similar problems with nbd-client on 13.10 earlier and those were solved by updating to newer nbd-client. If you want to try a newer nbd-client, the versio we use is here: http://archive.opinsys.fi/git-master/pool/quantal/main/n/nbd/
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> brianr: what's your ltsp server ip?
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| 14:34 | <brianr> 10.28
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| 14:34 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Unfortunately no - got the same error of mount: mounting /dev/nbd0 on /root failed: Invalid argument.
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> And you're in busybox now, right? What's the output of this? grep ROOTSERVER /*/net*.conf
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| 14:36 | <brianr> no, im not in busy box .. i snapped a pic of one that had the error last night
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> brianr: when you're in a position to troubleshoot, run the same command, and see if ROOTSERVER is 10.28
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| 14:36 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Back to the "No such file or directory" and /run is empty.
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| 14:36 | <brianr> i will run that next time one fails
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> brianr: the previous line was for mmetzger
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| 14:36 | <brianr> ok
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> mmetzger: and I suppose the nbd-client mounting line succeeds, right?
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| 14:37 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Symlink in /tmp for net-eth0.conf to /run
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| 14:37 | <vmlintu> alkisg: btw, there's now a kernel bug in kernels =>3.13 that causes nbd-client to fail on second boot.. The first boot works, but second boot on the same client always fails unless you restart nbd-server in between or wait some 15 minutes..
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 14:37 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> vmlintu: client-side kernel bug that persists reboots?
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| 14:37 | <vmlintu> alkisg: yep
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> Wow... is there a bug report or explanation about it?
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| 14:38 | <brianr> so upgrading to 14.04 isn't gonna fix my issue ;)
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| 14:38 | <vmlintu> alkisg: we are working on it.. we've spent two days on it already
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| 14:38 | <mmetzger> alkisg: nbd-client seems to work, though it does write a message "nbd0: unknown partition table"
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> vmlintu: and restarting nbd-server on the server doesn't fix it? it doesn't sound right...
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| 14:38 | mmetzger: that's normal
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| 14:38 | <vmlintu> alkisg: nbd-server restart fixes it
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> So, your issue is "/run gets cleaned after ipconfig runs, for some reason"
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| 14:39 | vmlintu: it sounds like a server-side bug to me
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| 14:39 | wouter: have you seen that one? ^
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| 14:40 | Client boots fine the first time in kernel >=3.13, and it fails the second time
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| 14:40 | <vmlintu> alkisg: nbd-server is not the problem, it's the client
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> vmlintu: I mean, nbd-server might be keeping some state for that client
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| 14:40 | So it breaks on second mount because of that client-specific state that iskept on the server, not on the client
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| 14:41 | mmetzger: do the same thing with break=premount again. At that point, just create some file in run, and type exit. See if that file is cleaned too.
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| 14:41 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Will do.
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> mmetzger: i.e., check if everything in /run is deleted, or if it's only net-eth0.conf
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| 14:42 | mmetzger: also, cat /proc/mounts at both times
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| 14:42 | On break, and on failure
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| 14:42 | See what is mounted on /run at both times
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| 14:42 | <vmlintu> alkisg: this is probably caused by it: http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/message/32303113/
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| 14:43 | alkisg: only the change of the client kernel breaks it. It happens also on 13.10 if you use kernel 3.13 or newer
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> vmlintu: vagrantc there suggests dhcp, not nbd
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| 14:44 | And, if it's the same issue that mmetzger mentions, it could be related to kernel, udev, /run etc, but again not nbd
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| 14:45 | vmlintu: when it happens, does manually running nbd-client work?
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| 14:45 | !nbd-client
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| 14:45 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 14:47 | <vmlintu> alkisg: after it has failed from initramfs, running nbd-client manually does work
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| 14:48 | <alkisg> vmlintu: then it doesn't sound like an nbd issue at all
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| 14:48 | It sounds like mmetzger's issue
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| 14:50 | <vmlintu> all ubuntu 14.04 installations are probably affected by this
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> vmlintu: ls -l /*/net*.conf
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| 14:50 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Ok, it looks like /run is no longer mounted after the manual udhcp and exit.
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Do you also see the broken symlink there?
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| 14:51 | <vmlintu> I'm on a laptop now, so I cannot check anything
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| 14:51 | I was debugging this on 12.10 originally with kernel 3.13
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> mmetzger: it's mounted at break=premount, and not mounted at the busybox panic shell?
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| 14:51 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Correct.
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| 14:52 | alkisg: Before it's "tmpfs /run tmpfs rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,size=710428k,mode=755 0 0"
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 14:52 | <mmetzger> alkisg: After, there's no /run listed in the output of "cat /proc/mounts"
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> Hmm no, it couldn't have been moved to the root file system because it doesn't exist yet...
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| 14:53 | mmetzger: now try something else: break=mount
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| 14:53 | And again the grep ROOTSERVER line
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| 14:53 | or the ls -l line
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| 14:53 | Don't run udhcp anymore manually
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| 14:53 | Just inspect things at break=mount
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| 14:53 | <mmetzger> Got it - results in a few.
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| 14:57 | <mmetzger> alkisg: /run is mounted at the break=mount with the same options as before and the net-eth0.conf file has the correct ROOTSERVER defined.
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> mmetzger: there are 2 net-eth0.conf files, one symlink in /tmp and a real file in /run, right?
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| 14:58 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Correct
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> mmetzger: is that a clean install?
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| 14:59 | Or an upgrade?
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| 15:00 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Clean install
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> !nbd-client
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| 15:00 | <ltsp> nbd-client: To try mounting the NBD image from the client initramfs: nbd-client 192.168.67.1 -N /opt/ltsp/i386 /dev/nbd0
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> And you said that runs, and the only thing you changed, was i386 to amd64?
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| 15:01 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Yes
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> And the ip...
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| 15:01 | cat /proc/cmdline
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| 15:01 | <mmetzger> 10.10.10.2
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> What do you see in /proc/cmdline, that mentions nbd?
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| 15:02 | Only root=/dev/nbd0? Or also ltsp_amd64 somewhere?
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| 15:02 | <mmetzger> nbdroot=:ltsp_amd64
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| 15:02 | and root=/dev/nbd0
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> OK, go to pxelinux.cfg/default and remove nbdroot completely
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| 15:03 | <mmetzger> Reboot with break=mount option?
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> Without it, normal boot
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| 15:03 | I.e. the problem could be gone with that change now...
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| 15:05 | <mmetzger> Sweet! It booted to login screen
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> mmetzger: put $CHROOT/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf to pastebin
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| 15:06 | <mmetzger> alkisg: From the client or the server?
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> Server
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| 15:07 | <mmetzger> Duh, nevermind. Sorry.
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter, on the client it's /etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 15:07 | Without the $CHROOT part...
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| 15:08 | I.e. now we want to find out what put ltsp_amd64 there... that was the old way for nbd roots
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| 15:10 | * alkisg wonders how that affected /run, though... | |
| 15:11 | <mmetzger> alkisg: Looking at this again, this may have been an upgrade from 12.04, but the client image was a brand new build.
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> OK, that does make sense, 12.04 had that part
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| 15:12 | <mmetzger> I'll build a fresh 14.04 version and see if it's the same. Would you still like the pastebin of the current update-kernels.conf?
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| 15:12 | <brianr> regarding the nbd-server update ... i am on 3.3-3, should i get to 3.4-5 ?
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> brianr: don't try random things without proper troubleshooting
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| 15:15 | You'll just make things worse
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| 15:15 | mmetzger: yes, please pastebin it
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| 15:16 | <brianr> there doesnt seem to be any way to force nbd-server to be more verbose other than running it in the foreground
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| 15:16 | which still isn't very useful
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| 15:20 | <mmetzger> alkisg: http://pastebin.com/gFKNFLqE
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> mmetzger: is your pxelinux.cfg/default a symlink or a real file?
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| 15:21 | <mmetzger> alkisg: It's a real file.
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> OK, nowadays it's a symlink to ltsp
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| 15:22 | Delete it from $CHROOT/boot/pxelinux.cfg/default completely, if it exists there,
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| 15:22 | and make it a symlink to the ltsp file in $TFTP/ltsp/amd64/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 15:22 | That was there because of the 12.04 => 14.04 upgrade
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| 15:23 | <mmetzger> symlink in chroot, on server, or both?
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> delete in chroot, symlink on server
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| 15:24 | * alkisg waves | |
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| 15:28 | <mmetzger> alkisg - For what it's worth, symlinking default to ltsp in the tftpboot results in a successful boot.
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| 16:28 | <brianr> good news everyone, my test thin client (a vm) failed to boot with the same error i was talking about earlier
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| 16:30 | grep ROOTSERVER /*/net*.conf yeilds No Such File or Directory
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> multiple DHCP servers?
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| 16:36 | <brianr> there is a net-eth0.conf in /run though
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> bad DHCP settings?
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| 16:37 | multiple DHCP servers *and* bad DHCP Settings?
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| 16:37 | <brianr> vagrantc, if that were the case then why does starting another nbd-server instance correct the problem?
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| 16:38 | <vagrantc> i maybe don't recall the whole backstory
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| 16:38 | brianr: what do you mean by starting another nbd-server?
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| 16:38 | <brianr> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2mh9UJ2G6hHVnAtSkpWNy1VLVU/edit?pli=1
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| 16:39 | so thats what i get
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| 16:39 | <vagrantc> it actually puts a ROOTSERVER value into net-eth0.conf ?
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| 16:39 | <brianr> yes
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| 16:39 | and its the right IP
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| 16:39 | <vagrantc> that could happen for dozens of reasons
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| 16:39 | could you paste the results of net-eth0.conf when it's broken and when it's working?
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| 16:40 | brianr: you using ipappend 3 ?
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| 16:41 | <brianr> i am going to check the ipappend ... cause i know i added that when i was troubleshooting a problem with blank host names from the clients
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| 16:42 | <vagrantc> i still don't understand what you meant by "starting another nbd-server instance correct the problem?"
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| 16:42 | maybe nbd-server isn't running at all, and that's why it corrects the problem?
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| 16:42 | <brianr> i goto the console of the LTS box and run /bin/nbd-server
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| 16:44 | for instance, last night i update the lts box, ubuntu 13.10, and reboot it. run aroun drebooting the thin clients .. 23 boot up, 24th fails , i goto server run /bin/nbd-server 6 more connect, then they start failing, run /bin/nbd-server again and the next 7-10 all connect
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| 16:48 | so, it looks like the nbd-server process being spawned as a thin client connects is being lost at some point, so when someone logs out of the thin client it goes to black screen and then they reboot it but there is already a nbd-server process running for that thin client and it shits the bed
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| 16:49 | there is no indication in syslog of any crashes
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| 16:51 | though ... i see this "failed to setup servers: failed to open a modern socket: failed to bind an address to a socket: Address already in use"
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| 16:52 | <vagrantc> are you running nbd-server from inetd, or from init?
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| 16:53 | <brianr> i have been assuming it wass init
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| 16:53 | this is a relatively new box
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| 16:58 | ipappend 2
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> try ipappend 3
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| 19:35 | <cstk421> how would you compare ltsp to openthinclient ?
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| 19:36 | i ask here b/c i have been unable to find an openthinclient channel
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> well, this is the first I've heard of openthinclient, so LTSP must be more well known. :)
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| 19:40 | <||cw> me too, and it's hard to tell since all their docs redirect to the same wiki page that's locked in german
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| 19:41 | but it looks like maybe it's strictly a thin client system, where you'd use rdp or vnc or citrix, where ltsp's client can also, and primarily, give you a linux desktop from the server, or run a full diskless linux desktop on the client
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| 19:41 | <cstk421> yeah hard to navigate but it has quite a bit of documentation
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| 19:42 | i pulled the vm image and got it working in about 30 min not bad
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> plug "openthinclient vs. ltsp" into a search engine, you'll find some reviews
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| 19:43 | sounds like it's ubuntu-based, at least the client OS
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| 19:43 | <cstk421> im reading about ltsp now and im trying to get an understanding of what i want. I am looking for a pxe boot to a windows os. As far as i can see ltsp and all the other solutions just have the thinclient rdp to a windows vm. Do i have this right ?
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| 19:43 | i didnt think thats how the citrix vdi environment worked
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| 19:43 | <||cw> cstk421: with ltsp you can make a xfreerdp session that connects to windows
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| 19:44 | and yes, that's how vdi works
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| 19:44 | packaged vdi's will have their own client though
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| 19:44 | <vagrantc> mostly seems like a management frontend
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| 19:44 | <cstk421> ||cw: so the citrix vdi model is the same ? and by that i dont mean xenapp but xendesktop
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| 19:45 | <||cw> I'm not familiar with xen's products
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| 19:45 | <cstk421> ltsp doesnt actually run the windows vm's does it ?
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| 19:45 | <||cw> no
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| 19:45 | ltsp is not a vdi solution, but it can be used as one
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| 19:45 | <cstk421> ||cw: understood.
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| 19:45 | <vagrantc> by and large, anything you can run on a linux system will run on LTSP, either locally on the thin client hardware, or remotely on the server... so it is as flexible as your OS.
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| 19:46 | <||cw> you have to manage the vm's and the client->vm mapping yourself
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| 19:46 | <cstk421> got u
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| 19:46 | are there more "total
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| 19:46 | sorry mistyped
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| 19:47 | do you guys know of a full "vdi" solution thats opensource ? or is ltsp the closest ill get ?
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| 19:47 | <||cw> I have not seen a full OSS vdi system
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| 19:48 | <cstk421> grrrr that figures
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| 19:48 | * vagrantc isn't familiar with the "vdi" acronym | |
| 19:48 | <cstk421> what would be the benefit of the vdi solution handling both the terminal server and vm's ? aside from management ? do i lose functionality going the LTSP route ?
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| 19:49 | <||cw> virtual desktop infrastructure
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| 19:49 | well, terminal server would not be vdi...
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_virtualization#Virtual_desktop_infrastructure
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| 19:49 | <cstk421> ||cw: dont understand what you mean by that ?
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| 19:49 | <||cw> but a lot of vdi can be done using a terminal server instead
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| 19:50 | vdi means you have 1 vm per user
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| 19:50 | <cstk421> ||cw: so your saying vdi solutions dont use a TS type environment correct ?
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> it seems like LTSP could be once piece of a VDI infrastructure
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| 19:50 | <||cw> it's still 1:1 os oer user, just like traditional desktops, but the virtualization server handles all the workload
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| 19:50 | oer/per/
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| 19:51 | <cstk421> ||cw: so with ltsp each users vm will handle each users workload as opposed to the virtualization server doing all the work for all the vms ?
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| 19:51 | <||cw> it uses rdp or vnc or whatever the OS native remote access is, just as a terminal server would
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> so VDI basically gives each user access to their own Virtual Machine?
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| 19:51 | <cstk421> ||cw: they dont get the benefit of all the server resources
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| 19:51 | <||cw> no
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| 19:52 | vagrantc: yes, exactly.
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> cstk421: with LTSP's default setup, all users log in to the same server, virtual or physical...
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| 19:52 | <||cw> cstk421: ltsp is a terminal server. vdi is not a terminal server.
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| 19:52 | <cstk421> ||cw: i thought in the vdi model they are still limited to the resources of their respected vm
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| 19:52 | ||cw: understood
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| 19:52 | vagrantc: got u
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> cstk421: but there's nothing to prevent you from configuring the login process to spin up a virtual machine that you connect to or something like that.
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| 19:53 | <||cw> a terminal server is ONE server and all users login to it, multiuser, multi-session. vdi is one use, one session, multiple virtual servers (but desktop OS)
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> cstk421: other than perhaps the amount of effort...
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| 19:54 | <cstk421> either im not understanding both infrastructures or there really isnt a difference other then the communication method between client and server.
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| 19:54 | <||cw> the communication method is the same, the server side is very different
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| 19:55 | a true VDI system would use a session broker, much like a cluster of terminal servers, to direct specific users to specific virtual machines, or a pool of virtual machines
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| 19:55 | <cstk421> k
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| 19:56 | <||cw> it also would use a modified client that understand this, it's still rdp, but it's not rdesktop or xfreerdp
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| 19:56 | <cstk421> let me see if this is what i am understanding. in ltsp you have the terminal server and multiple users logging into the server. you have 1 vm running 7 for example. you then have multiple users using that same instance of 7 with their own desktops?
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> cstk421: it doesn't even have to be a virtual machine
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| 19:57 | <||cw> ltsp does not do windows directly
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| 19:57 | <cstk421> vm or not does the layout i explained make sense ?
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> "running 7" ?
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| 19:58 | <||cw> ltsp does linux. if you want windows, you can set up the lts.conf to do a xfreerdp session to a windows ip
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| 19:58 | <cstk421> ||cw: ok exactly what i want to do. so in this example i need a winbox for each user needing a session correct ?
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| 20:03 | <||cw> if you want 1:1 vdi, yes
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| 20:04 | <cstk421> ||cw: ok i understand that part what is the alternative of the 1:1 vdi ? again sticking with windows
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| 20:04 | <||cw> buying windows terminal server, then all clients can point to the one server IP. but your applications will need be TS compatible
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| 20:05 | annoyingly, cost is about the same, give or take a couple %. MS has not made it an easy choice
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| 20:06 | I gotta run though
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| 20:07 | <cstk421> ||cw: hey thanks for your help
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| 20:07 | ||cw: really appreciate it
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