IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 6 April 2011 (all times are UTC)

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03:45	<aa__> how to set a default page on ltsp kiosk mode
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07:26	<hishnash> i have a problem ltsp-cluster-accountmanager is killing a cronjob
07:27	Apr 5 22:00:01 ubuntu CRON[16592]: (spideroak) CMD (/usr/bin/SpiderOak --batchmode) Apr 5 22:00:09 ubuntu ltsp-cluster-accountmanager: Killing user "spideroak"
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07:32	<hishnash> i have a problem ltsp-cluster-accountmanager is killing a cronjob
07:32	<Roasted_> seems as if the RAM order wasn't accurate
07:33	I wonder if I could run a lab of 30 clients on 6gb of RAM
07:33	oh boy....
07:34	<hishnash> <Roasted> if you use a ligthwight interface
07:34	eg not gnome! or kde
07:34	<Roasted_> sigh
07:35	this sucks. badly.
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07:35	<Roasted_> hahahahah
07:35	I just got an email that there's a 2nd package of RAM not here yet
07:35	so I should have 12gb after all
07:36	<hishnash> i would still not use gnome
07:36	<Roasted_> I use 4gb on 10 clients in another lab
07:36	and it's unreal how quick it is
07:36	<hishnash> nice
07:36	<Roasted_> only using 2gb of the RAM at peak
07:36	4x3 = 12
07:36	10x3 = 30
07:36	12gb, 30 clients
07:36	exact same scale as 4gb on 10 clients
07:37	<hishnash> it tends to be firefox that eats the most ram
07:37	<Roasted_> in theory I should be okay. (keyword - theory)
07:37	yeah
07:37	hey is firefox 4 slimmer on resources than 3.6?
07:37	I was trying to dig up some info about that in case going to 4 would be a wiser move
07:37	I know FF4 is exponentially better on RAM than chrome is, based on the tests I read... but I wasnt sure how it faired to 3.6
07:38	<hishnash> well as long as you dont give them flash
07:39	what spec do the thin cliets have?
07:40	FF4 is a litle better, the users tend to use chrome
07:40	since the school uses google apps
07:40	<Roasted_> we use google apps too
07:40	but firefox still takes the cake for compatibility-everywhere
07:40	and I did give them flash
07:41	still works great, like I siad, not using much more than 2gb at max
07:41	which struck me as odd
07:41	the thin clients are 2.0ghz Pentium 4's
07:41	with 512-768 RAM
07:41	some are even higher, at 896 RAM (256, 256, 256, 128)
07:41	We dug them out of a closet ot use as terminals, so there's a bunch of oddballs, but all are P4 and all are 512mb+
07:41	<hishnash> ok well if you have problems you can set up firefox as a locla app then there is no quesstion it will be ok
07:41	<Roasted_> ya know
07:42	I did try local apps with firefox
07:42	and it came down as looking ancient and also not being able to get to the internet
07:42	I'll have to do more reading on it, as it was my first time setting up local apps
07:42	but it confused me and frustrated me enough I said screw it and went to full thin
07:42	<hishnash> you need to set up the dns setting in teh chroot
07:42	yer its best to do it all on the sever if you have the spec
07:43	<Roasted_> I'm not sure if this server has quite enough to power 30 systems without issue
07:43	but
07:43	granted... it is a dual processor system, with a dual core in eahc spot. Xeon.
07:43	2.8 or something
07:43	<hishnash> what prosesor are you useing?
07:43	<Roasted_> Intel Xeon
07:43	2 dual core
07:43	2 procs, 4 cores total
07:44	<hishnash> should be ok, we have a 6 core phenom
07:44	<Roasted_> one of our servers is a dual processor server... each with 6 core
07:44	makes me drool
07:44	<hishnash> and run 15 clients
07:44	<Roasted_> nice
07:44	just to recap on something about that dns thing you told me about
07:44	is that in resolv?
07:44	or interfaces
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07:45	<hishnash> its a long time since i did it one sec
07:45	resolve
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07:46	<hishnash> you are best to point to your sever
07:46	<Roasted_> for dns?
07:46	<hishnash> yes
07:46	<Roasted_> so would setting resolv in the chroot to the ACTUAL DNS server be a bad idea?
07:46	<hishnash> i would point to opendns
07:47	<alkisg> The clients normally get their DNS info from dhcp, overriding resolv.conf
07:47	<hishnash> yer you might want to have some local domian names. (we do here)
07:48	<alkisg> If that's not what one wants, he can use DNS_SERVER in lts.conf
07:48	For localapps on servers with 2 NICs, NAT is required on the LTSP server
07:48	<hishnash> ok
07:48	<alkisg> Not DNS
07:48	<hishnash> that sound easer
07:49	anyone know who to stop ltsp-cluster-acounmanager form killing a cron job?
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08:50	<U4> hi guys, im having a problem. I recently changed shell to fish (yeah, i like it) and on my home machine (std lucid install) all is well and i've chsh'd to fish now. my work machine however is an ltsp client. i apt-get installed fish, and it works ok, but when i chsh'd to fish, whenever i try to log in it gives me a black screen and returns me to the login screen. i logged onto the host machine with a kbd/monitor and changed it back to bash and
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09:06	<Roasted_> alkisg, in regard to "for localapps on servers with 2 nics, nat is required on the ltsp server" is this true even if I am not using 2 nics at th etime?
09:07	also, would that apply if I have a wired nic and wireless nic? Because where it failed was on my laptop running as the server on a small scale test at home.
09:07	I had a connection via wireless, and my wired connection was right to my netbook which was the client, and my server (laptop) was the dhcp server supporting the client
09:07	and the localapp of firefox failed then. so would the 2 nics in that scenario aide in its issues?
09:08	<alkisg> Roasted_: it's no magic, the clients won't have internet if they have the ltsp server as their gateway, and it doesn't act like a gateway (nat)
09:08	So yeah if you give them dhcp from your ethernet and you only have internet in your wireless and you don't do nat, that's the reason
09:09	About the theme, I think it needs gnome-settings daemon in the chroot or some other package
09:09	<Roasted_> now in my case here at work, my server uses one gig NIC but windows handles DHCP. So I would think localapps WOULD work here.
09:10	and if I ever utilize the 2nd NIC (one for handing out DHCP 192 addresses to the clients, and one for access to the rest of the network) then I would set up NAT and THEN localapps would work
09:10	and by localapps working I mean firefox functioning 100%
09:10	<alkisg> Right. Remember to take into account your windows shares too
09:11	I.e. saving a file from a web page etc etc
09:11	<Roasted_> but that should work... right. it's just the OPENING that is the issue
09:11	<alkisg> Really? Very strange
09:11	<Roasted_> no, I'm asking
09:11	isn't that what you told me before?
09:11	that it won't even give you the option to open a file, only save
09:12	<abeehc> Roasted_: thin chroot?
09:12	<Roasted_> either way, for learning purposes
09:12	<alkisg> I don't understand what you're saying. Where and how do you mount your windows shares?
09:12	<Roasted_> samba
09:12	<abeehc> how do we get from nics to opening files
09:12	<Roasted_> abeehc, this is going backwards to a previous conversation alkisg and I had.
09:12	about localapps
09:13	<abeehc> firefox-gnome-support
09:13	in any case
09:13	<Roasted_> nice, thank you
09:13	I'l write that down
09:13	alkisg, are you suggesting that I'll see issues with windows shares when using localapps?
09:13	<abeehc> otherwise local ff has no idea of what file associations gnome has
09:14	<alkisg> Roasted_: localapps are fat clients, both me and vagrantc told you that a week ago
09:14	<Roasted_> so I'd have the SAME issue again
09:14	<alkisg> *like
09:14	Sure
09:14	But can you describe the issue again?
09:14	<Roasted_> ehhhhhhhh I'll scratch localapps off of the to do list then
09:14	lol
09:14	yes, I can
09:14	<abeehc> your not going to get ff to have domain auth anyway
09:14	<alkisg> I mean, the more technical details
09:14	<abeehc> the only app is nautilus which you wouldn't localapp
09:14	<alkisg> How are your windows shares mounted, and at what path
09:15	<abeehc> gl i'll shutup
09:15	<Roasted_> On the desktop of the default profile I set on the Ubuntu systems are links to various network resources. These resources reside on a Windows file server. They mount via a location shortcut, smb://fileserver/etc/etc
09:15	When using a fat client, even if I log in as my domain user, it asks me for credentials to mount the share. Oddly, it also asks me for credentials if I need to save something from Libre Office to my network share.
09:16	So it could ask me up to 3 times for who I am, even though I'm logged in as me. It treats me as if I'm on a Windows box not on the Windows domain, asking who I am each time.
09:16	<alkisg> Pause. What mounts those? likewise?
09:16	<Roasted_> Thin clients? Not a single issue. I log in once initially, and everything flows after that, as if it's in constant connection with WHO I am.
09:16	I'm joined to the domain via likewise open, but I use samba to mount the shares.
09:16	<alkisg> How, exactly?
09:16	<Roasted_> the link is smb://fileserver/etc. So when the user double clicks the link, it auto-mounts it on the fly and it opens accordingly.
09:16	<alkisg> smbclient? fstab?
09:17	<Roasted_> It's the same thing as going in Nautilus and hitting CTRL + L (location) and typing the location out.
09:17	<alkisg> Ah, so it's gvfs?
09:17	<Roasted_> I would think so
09:17	<alkisg> Well then you can easily mount them on the server and export them to fat clients
09:17	Instead of trying to mount them on fat clients
09:18	<Roasted_> So the server would retain the connection and the fat clients would just be "linked" over to that connection?
09:18	<alkisg> No, I mean upon login, not always
09:18	<Roasted_> So the server would just have to be logged in?
09:19	<alkisg> The user. Aren't those per-user shares?
09:19	<Roasted_> The shares I have linked are just general shares. They're for students. So I have 4 links, one for each graduating class. From where the user shares are inside, students navigate to them and then they're good to go
09:19	from there*
09:20	<alkisg> So you have 4 shares with directories inside them?
09:20	<Roasted_> yes
09:20	<alkisg> Or multiple shares?
09:21	<Roasted_> 4 shares. students click on their class and then locate their own folder.
09:21	<alkisg> Why don't you mount them with fstab then, on the file system?
09:21	<Roasted_> fstab is handled at system startup
09:21	these systems are booted once, and logged into 9-10 times during that day.
09:22	<alkisg> You can have "user,noauto" in fstab
09:22	<Roasted_> What would that accomplish?
09:22	<alkisg> It would tell the server not to mount them until a user tries to access them
09:22	They'd even show up in the gnome "locations" menu
09:22	<Roasted_> oh...
09:22	hm
09:23	I've never used fstab for network shares, I'll have to do some readin gon it
09:23	<alkisg> And you could access them from thin/fat clients too then
09:23	*localapps etc
09:23	<Roasted_> you don't think I'd get hit with a ton of authentication prompts?
09:24	<alkisg> Do you get a prompt if you try to access the smb share as root, from the server?
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09:24	<Roasted_> Not sure I understand how I could try to log in to a windows share with a root account
09:24	the server itself is fine
09:24	if I log in, I access everything just fine
09:24	<alkisg> sudo smbclient, or sudo smbmount
09:25	<Roasted_> it's only the fat clients that have this issue
09:25	<dgroos> Hi All,
09:25	<Roasted_> doesnt the user in question need root priviledges to mount things via fstab?
09:26	<alkisg> That's the "user" part of the fstab entry, so that the user won't need root privileges. Are you in a position to test mounting stuff now?
09:26	dgroos: hi there, how are you?
09:27	<Roasted_> alkisg, I have a test desktop here I could use, but I'd have to build a fat client image for it.
09:27	<dgroos> For some reason my local-app clients can't do java web pages, though on the (64 b) server it works fine.
09:27	<Roasted_> alkisg, the production server is in use till 3
09:27	and its 1230 here
09:27	<alkisg> Roasted_: no need for fat clients, testing is the same with or without them
09:27	<Roasted_> alkisg, if that's the case, I have a test environment right here ready to go then
09:28	<alkisg> Roasted_: is your desktop in the domain? You can mount the windows shares from nautilus etc?
09:28	<dgroos> alkisg: pretty good. Crunch time on a few projects though... How are things most-the-way around the world?
09:28	<Roasted_> alkisg, yep.
09:28	alkisg, it should be set up pretty darn close to the actual server
09:28	alkisg, with the exception of the thin chroot instead of fat
09:29	<alkisg> dgroos: things are nice here, I've learned last week that we've probably switched about 400 schools to ubuntu/ltsp atm (instead of 200 that I thought they were)
09:29	<dgroos> :D
09:30	alkisg: 200 was incredible, 400? Nice! (and busy for you!) Do you have a new job offer?
09:30	<alkisg> Roasted_: ok, go ahead and mount a windows share, and then put the result of this command to pastebin: gvfs-mount -l
09:30	<Roasted_> alkisg, you might have 401 here. We had a meeting today to discuss the potential of this product. As we speak I'm setting up ANOTHER server for another "test pocket" to ride out the end of the year with
09:31	<alkisg> dgroos: nope, I don't want any, I am and I want to remain an IT teacher. The programming part is just a hobby :)
09:31	<Roasted_> alkisg, well, we appreciate your hobby. :D
09:31	<dgroos> I completely understand.
09:31	<alkisg> Roasted_: those 400 are just greek schools which are using a specific setup of ubuntu/ltsp that we sent them. I bet worldwide ltsp has 100 times that many schools installations
09:31	<dgroos> yes, as Roasted says, THANKS!
09:31	<Roasted_> alkisg, if that's a -L (ell) then Im getting fvfs-mount is not installed. install it?
09:32	<alkisg> Roasted_: Gvfs-mount, not Fvfs-mount
09:33	It's an ell, yes
09:33	gvfs-mount -l
09:34	<Roasted_> hahaha - that was a typo on my part. I did the command correctly.
09:34	it just returns not installed
09:34	installing now
09:34	k
09:34	gonna pastebin
09:34	<alkisg> Ah, 10.10 doesn't have gvfs-bin preinstalled? o
09:35	ok
09:35	<Roasted_> http://tinypaste.com/4f66c
09:36	<dgroos> Does anyone know if you have to install java specifically on clients when using them as localapps? Seems like I had java working fine in December. Using 10.04.
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09:38	<alkisg> dgroos: if you have firefox as a localapp, and you want to run java applets etc, then yes you need to install java as a localapp too
09:38	Roasted_: I'm not 100% sure about the syntax, but can you try this? sudo smbmount //storage01/technology/ /mnt
09:39	<dgroos> alkisg: OK I'll install/reinstall and see what happens. Nice how that one sch-scripts allows one to enter the chroot so easily... ;)
09:39	<Roasted_> smbmount not found
09:39	unable to locate package smbmount
09:39	<alkisg> Roasted_: sudo mount smb://storage01/technology/ /mnt
09:40	<Roasted_> errors
09:40	<alkisg> What errors?
09:40	<Roasted_> wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock, missing codepage or helper program, etc
09:40	it just gives a list of what COULD be wrong
09:40	not what IS wrong
09:40	wait
09:40	sec
09:40	am I to still have the same share mounted
09:41	via nautilus?
09:41	<alkisg> It shouldn't matter
09:41	<Roasted_> yeah it makes no difference
09:41	<alkisg> Try another one: sudo mount -t cifs //storage01/technology/ /mnt
09:41	(it's just mounting samba shares from the command line - I just don't have windows shares to try)
09:42	The point is to see if root can access the share without password
09:42	(from the server, which is on the domain)
09:44	<Roasted_> same errors
09:44	<alkisg> bb in 10'
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09:55	<alkisg> Roasted_: how did you export those directories on the windows server? "rw everyone", and let ntfs take care of the rest permissions?
09:57	<Roasted_> what do you mean export?
09:57	I just simply connect via samba
09:57	windows permissions control where the user can/can't go
09:58	oh - windows server...
09:58	I'm not sure offhand
09:58	<alkisg> There are 2 types of windows permissions, share permissions (defined on the network share) and ntfs permissions, defined on the file system
09:58	<Roasted_> oh
09:58	I think they're share based
09:59	it's like an ACL
09:59	<alkisg> Both are like ACLs
09:59	<Roasted_> from the setup that I've seen in person
09:59	Right click - properties - security tab - etc
09:59	pretty sure it's share based
09:59	<alkisg> (07:59:15 PM) Roasted_: Right click - properties - security tab - etc => that's ntfs
09:59	<Roasted_> dang I suck
09:59	<alkisg> While right click => share => properties => security, is network
10:00	<dgroos> Seems I need to add a repository to my chroot. While in chroot, add-apt-repository command is giving me a 'command not found'. Work around?
10:00	<Roasted_> I've always manually edited sources.list
10:00	isn't add-apt for adding PPA entries?
10:00	<alkisg> dgroos: why would you add a repository? you need the oracle version of java?
10:00	How about apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras ?
10:01	<dgroos> I wanted the sun version--used it before with success.
10:01	<Roasted_> I installed the sun version to my chroot
10:01	but without a repo
10:01	<alkisg> dgroos: what's the package name?
10:01	<Roasted_> I just got the .bin and went to town
10:02	<dgroos> It has been moved. root@gcos-server:/# apt-get install sun-java6-jre sun-java6-plugin
10:03	the ubuntu page for 10.04 says to add: "deb http://archive.canonical.com/ lucid partner" to sources.list.
10:04	Roasted--I ought to do it by just editing the sources.list, just wanted the short cut command to work.
10:04	<Roasted_> I just thought add-apt was for adding PPA's
10:04	which adding a PPA I wasn't thinkin would work
10:04	I just went ot the sources list and manually did my thing there, but that was just me
10:04	alkisg, any other suggestions with this mount idea?
10:04	<alkisg> dgroos: apt-get install python-software-properties
10:05	This will get you add-apt-repository
10:05	<Roasted_> alkisg, I found this entry as an example - //servername/sharename /media/mountname cifs noauto,credentials=~/.smbpasswd 0 0
10:05	I'm thinking that might be up my alley, but I'm a little curious @ .smbpasswd... as I don't have one. I wonder if it gets auto generated on the fly.
10:05	<dgroos> alkisg: Thanks again!
10:06	<alkisg> Roasted_: I'm trying to understand what happens with the usernames/passwords etc on your samba shares. So anyway if a user clicks on nautilus and mounts the dirs, he only has access to certain folders, while another user has access to other folders?
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10:08	<Roasted_> alkisg, the user only has access to THEIR folder. Everyone has access to ClassOf2011, but Bob can only get into Bob, Fred can only get into Fred, etc.
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10:09	<dgroos> alkisg: Cool. And finally, do I just add "java" to my lts.conf in the LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS line?
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10:09	<alkisg> dgroos: I don't think it's needed. This is only needed for apps in the gnome menus
10:10	Roasted_: So, even if the root could mount the shares without a password, it wouldn't help, as the username of the user trying to access the share would be needed
10:10	OK, gvfs-mount it is, then
10:10	Try to unmount the share from nautilus
10:10	Then, on the command line prompt, try: gvfs-mount smb://share/name
10:10	<dgroos> didn't know that! let's try it now...
10:11	<alkisg> Roasted_: See if that command line does the same thing as clicking on the nautilus share
10:12	<Roasted_> that requires authentication
10:12	<alkisg> Don't authenticate.
10:12	You run that as the user, not as root, right?
10:12	<Roasted_> yes
10:12	no sudo
10:12	I did not authenticate
10:13	try again as sudo?
10:13	<alkisg> No
10:13	Let's make sure that you are indeed using gvfs to mount them
10:14	Unmount the dir from nautilus, if you mounted it
10:14	<Roasted_> already did
10:14	<alkisg> Then run: gvfs-mount -o
10:14	Then mount the dir from nautilus
10:14	Do you see the event on the console?
10:14	<Roasted_> Mount added:
10:14	yes
10:14	<alkisg> Ctrl+c, unmount, and then try again with another switch: gvfs-mount -o -i
10:15	That -i gives additional details
10:15	<Roasted_> yes
10:15	it did
10:15	<alkisg> Now we want to see how nautilus mounts it without authentication, so that we can do that from the command line
10:15	<Roasted_> what am I to look for?
10:15	<alkisg> I'm not sure how it does that, or what you're looking for
10:16	Some mount options maybe
10:16	Can you pastebin?
10:16	<Roasted_> http://tinypaste.com/8aa177
10:18	<alkisg> Nope, nothing there. The usernames/passwords are the same on linux as on windows, right? Likewise does that?
10:18	<Roasted_> the usernames/passwords are on the domain
10:18	likewise is the middle man for that
10:18	its because of likewise that I can use steve_jobs to authenticate
10:19	<alkisg> And yet "gvfs-mount smb://storage01/technology/" asks for a password... hmm...
10:20	<abeehc> do we have both scenarios ready?
10:20	i think the difference is in fact likewise, and can be found via kerberos utils
10:20	<alkisg> Roasted_: and if you do give the password, it works then?
10:21	<abeehc> so the one that asks for a password, do kinit on the cli first then try gvfs-mount
10:21	<Roasted_> sure does
10:21	works fine
10:22	<alkisg> abeehc: have you worked with likewise? Does it cache the user password so that it can reuse it on cases like the above?
10:22	<abeehc> Yes, via kerberos
10:22	it gets tickets not so much caching the password
10:22	<alkisg> Why would it work with nautilus and not with gvfs?
10:22	<abeehc> very much like windows ad authentication
10:22	it works with both once the ticket exists
10:22	<alkisg> Currently it only works with nautilus though
10:23	And I wonder why
10:23	<abeehc> that's the only difference?
10:23	they are one in the same from my testing; nautilus uses gvfs-mount
10:23	<alkisg> That's what I thought too, but nautilus doesn't ask for a password, whlie gvfs-mount does ask
10:24	<abeehc> i thought the difference was thin vs fat here
10:24	<alkisg> So I'm guessing that somehow nautilus caches the login password and reuses it
10:24	<Roasted_> what do you mean nautilus doesn't ask for a password
10:24	<abeehc> natituls running on the client would not have the kerb ticket
10:24	<alkisg> Roasted_: when you click on a samba share, does it ask for a password?
10:24	<abeehc> so wouldn't work and that makes sense
10:24	<alkisg> abeehc: no, the problem is why gvfs-mount asks for a password on a thin client
10:24	<abeehc> I've unfourtunately, mentioned this info like 4 times to you roasted
10:24	<dgroos> students in front of me... let's see if it works. g'day all...
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10:24	<abeehc> I see
10:25	<Roasted_> alkisg, on thin clients, no. fat clients, yes
10:25	<abeehc> damn it.
10:25	klist
10:25	<alkisg> Roasted_: please leave fat clients out of this part of the discussion, as it just mixes people :)
10:25	<abeehc> TELL ME IF KLIST IS POPULATED
10:25	<Roasted_> how
10:25	<abeehc> the only problem is the fat client as i understand it.
10:25	<Roasted_> yes
10:25	thin is perfect
10:25	<abeehc> ok thanks
10:25	you would type klist
10:26	in the one that asks for a password klist would likely be empty
10:26	<Roasted_> let me SSH into the actual production server
10:26	<abeehc> in the one that doesn't, klist will be populated I expect
10:26	and in thoeory on the broken one you could run kinit it would then ask your for a pass
10:26	from that point nautilus shouldn't, for any share you contact on the domain
10:26	<Roasted_> klist - no credentials cache found
10:26	<abeehc> yep[
10:26	as what user?
10:27	that's not helpful at all in itself
10:27	<Roasted_> local admin
10:27	<alkisg> Roasted_: that's with ssh, or with actual graphical login? And, on thin or fat?
10:27	<abeehc> who cares about local admin
10:27	let's focus on domain accounts?
10:27	<Roasted_> ssh, local admin, no gui, fat
10:28	ssh as myself, domain account, no gui, fat, klist has an entry
10:28	<abeehc> yep
10:28	that's required for single sign on auth to work via nautilus
10:28	<Roasted_> renewal is tomorrow, april 7th 2011
10:28	<abeehc> this is also the place where you wouldn't get a ticket if your time was skewed too far, as it was last week
10:29	<Roasted_> I see
10:29	<abeehc> you'll find on the fat client, you don't get a ticket hence getting prompted
10:29	I think on the fat client you could run kinit to get a ticket, I'm not sure
10:29	<Roasted_> is there a way to adjust it so it DOES get a ticket
10:29	and thereby I dont get hit with the prompts
10:29	<abeehc> but kinit itself will ask for your password
10:30	likewise is responsible for acquiring the ticket on login as i understand it
10:30	<Roasted_> I would think so
10:31	<alkisg> OK let me just state my question for later reference: on a thin client, connecting with nautilus to a samba share doesn't ask for a password. On the same thin client, connecting to the samba share with gvfs asks for a password. What makes that difference there? Not talking about fat clients at all.
10:35	<Roasted_> now, I'm a little confused. If it comes down to the ticket, is there a way to set it so fat clients do receive the ticket?
10:35	<abeehc> i doubt it
10:36	keep in mind this is not unlike troubleshooting windows domains in general
10:36	in that if your workstation isn't part of the domain, you don't get tickets naturally
10:36	<Roasted_> I don't see how the fat clients can't detect the ticket whihc resides on the server
10:36	<abeehc> they can't
10:36	<Roasted_> sigh
10:36	<abeehc> and further, the domain doesn't trust the client workstation anyway
10:36	<Roasted_> I guess fat clients have no place here then
10:36	which is a real shame, cause there's about 5 labs that could benefit from the fat setup
10:37	<abeehc> now once you've logged into the fat client your uid and gid still match up to the domain creds
10:37	<Roasted_> once I log in, it forgets who I am
10:37	<abeehc> so my thought which i think you explored was mount on the server, under the user's home
10:37	<Roasted_> I click on file server, needs to reauthenticate
10:37	I save from libre office, needs to reauthenticate
10:37	everything I do needs to reauthenticate on the fat client
10:38	<abeehc> so you didn't explore my suggestion i guess?
10:38	i'll still have to try one day soon
10:38	<Roasted_> I explored about 12 different avenues.
10:38	which did you suggest, specifically
10:38	<abeehc> so my thought which i think you explored was mount on the server, under the user's home
10:38	<Roasted_> I was looking into that, but I spoke to another school district who had just spent several weeks trying to get that to work.
10:38	They couldn't.
10:39	So I decided to ditch the idea and not waste any more time.
10:39	<abeehc> right on
10:39	<Roasted_> Nobody I spoke to successfully got windows locations to mount in the user's home dir.
10:39	So I just went with the general shares and have the users work out of their share
10:39	That was the fix literally everybody in the area messing with Ubuntu on a Windows domain went with.
10:39	<abeehc> hm I don't do that
10:40	<Roasted_> what do you do
10:40	<abeehc> shell script uses gvfs-mount when the user logs in
10:40	<Roasted_> and it doesn't use fstab at all
10:40	<abeehc> again, not fat. Haven't had time to even fiddle with fat yet
10:41	nah
10:41	i never tried fstab
10:41	I did have pam_mount working for a number of months
10:41	<Roasted_> alkisg suggested noauto to me with fstab
10:41	/servername/sharename /media/mountname cifs noauto,credentials=~/.smbpasswd 0 0
10:41	<abeehc> but I found, gvfs-mount putting the shares under nautilus computer:// was easier for my users
10:41	<Roasted_> where the share doesnt mount on boot, but whent he user logs in
10:41	<abeehc> than what i had before which was a "Shares" dir under thier home folder pam_mount mounted the different shares
10:42	<Roasted_> I looked into the pam route. in fact I think you and I had a discussion on that.
10:42	<abeehc> that's interesting but would have no effect on the fat client
10:42	<Roasted_> But tack that under the list of failed experiments. :P
10:42	<alkisg> Roasted_: that won't work though as it appears they need to be mounted on a per-user basis
10:42	<Roasted_> what wouldn't, the no auto?
10:42	well dang
10:42	fat clients are just striking out left and right here
10:42	:()
10:42	<alkisg> If there's a command-line method to mount the samba share without asking for a password on the server (or on thin clients), then that mount can be exported to fat, localapps etc
10:42	<abeehc> and that is gvfs-mount
10:42	<alkisg> And it doesn't work
10:42	It asks for a password
10:42	<Roasted_> ^^
10:43	<alkisg> On thin clients. Or on the server.
10:43	<abeehc> i doubt that
10:43	again, this is what i'm using right now
10:43	<alkisg> That's what Roasted_ reports
10:43	<Roasted_> I have a test server right here
10:43	we tried it a few minutes ago
10:43	<alkisg> If you guys can fix that, then fat or localapps are not a problem
10:43	<Roasted_> alkisg
10:43	<abeehc> it works well for me
10:43	<Roasted_> would the user logged in effect this
10:44	<abeehc> YES
10:44	<alkisg> Of course
10:44	<abeehc> absolutely
10:44	ONLY domain accounts are interesting
10:44	<Roasted_> I did some work between local admin and my own account
10:44	let me go back through the log
10:44	<abeehc> i have no idea what local admin is
10:45	<Roasted_> a non domain user
10:45	named administrator
10:45	<abeehc> ok
10:45	<Roasted_> I create it during the initial install, and it's what I use to install applications, etc.
10:45	and also serves as a troubleshooting account
10:45	<abeehc> i see
10:45	it's not an account you want to use at all right now
10:45	<Roasted_> just an old windows habit I had that I use here on ubuntu too
10:45	<abeehc> has nothing to do with this
10:45	<Roasted_> k
10:45	Im in my account now
10:45	<abeehc> on a client?
10:46	a thin client?
10:46	<Roasted_> on a test server
10:46	I can fire up a client though
10:46	its a thin chroot on the test server tho
10:46	<abeehc> I don't know what test server means; you've logged in locally to the server itself?
10:47	<Roasted_> abeehc, my real LTSP server is in use now, and will be for another hour and a half. I have a dell optiplex desktop here that I installed edubuntu on. It acts as an LTSP server on a localized LAN.
10:47	it's not my production server, but the install is nearly identical
10:47	<abeehc> mine's in use too, i still login to is
10:47	it*
10:47	<Roasted_> it's just so I can learn without risking the real thing
10:47	<abeehc> ok here's what i did
10:48	just a couple minutes ago. 1. have server with thin chroot 2. boot thin client against said server 3. login with domain user to thin client 4. open gnome-terminal 5. type gvfs-mount smb://server.FQDN/sharename
10:48	in this case, gvfs-mount, or nautilus, both work fine
10:49	<Roasted_> bingo
10:49	<abeehc> again as i mentioned before best practice is to use FQDN
10:49	even if your fqdn is confusing and strange
10:49	hehe
10:50	<Roasted_> alkisg, you hearin this
10:50	so this fstab thing...
10:50	could it work now?
10:50	<alkisg> Nope, forget about fstab
10:50	<Roasted_> okay
10:51	should I try that on the fat client in the production lab/
10:51	because I'm doubtful it'll work
10:51	so now I'm a little curious...
10:52	<abeehc> what i described should not work with a stock fat client
10:54	<Roasted_> hmm
10:54	so does the fact that gvfs thing work help me in any way to make the fat clients more seamless?
10:54	or am I still stuck at square one
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10:56	<Roasted_> and is there a reason fstab wouldn't? I would think it could work...
10:56	<abeehc> well this is the part i've not approached yet; but in theory, once the fat client logs into the "client" the server auths them via ssh; what would need to happen is AFTER the lw stuff in pam or wherever it is, you'd be looking to execute that gvfs-mount command as the user on the server
10:57	<Roasted_> abeehc, so it needs to execute that command AFTER logging in?
10:57	<abeehc> yeah after 1. succesful auth 2. likewise shit happens
10:57	otherwise you have no tickets and gvfs-mount should very well prompt
10:57	<Roasted_> so how wouldn't fstab work with the noauto thing, since that would make it fly during user login?
10:57	<abeehc> I'm not sure about fstab i've never tried it.
10:57	noauto wouldn't be when the user logs in afaik
10:58	<Roasted_> Im going to on my test server here
10:58	<abeehc> it's when the user accesses the share
10:58	<Roasted_> On some systems, smbfs automount does not work correctly (is this true for cifs as well?). As a workaround, you can add the "noauto" parameter to your smbfs fstab entry and then have the share mounted at login
10:58	shrug
10:59	the moment of truth...
11:00	<abeehc> you know what would be interesting
11:00	boot a fat client, try ltsp-remoteapps gvfs-mount smb://server.fqdn/share
11:00	<Roasted_> haaaaa didn't work
11:00	:(
11:00	<abeehc> what didn't work?
11:00	<Roasted_> the fstab thing
11:01	<abeehc> what didn't work
11:01	<Roasted_> it didnt mount upon me logging in
11:02	<abeehc> fstab thing, from my perspective, would be more of a mount when the system boots
11:02	but you would absoltely need to mount it as a service account from the domain i imagine
11:02	<Roasted_> I agree. But from what I've read, noauto holds it till user login
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11:12	<alkisg> Roasted_: fstab entries are for all the system
11:12	You need per-user mounting
11:13	For samba to be able to apply acls and permissions
11:13	So again, forget about fstab
11:13	Do you have a fat client available for testing?
11:14	The idea is to run gvfs-mount on the server, and then access that mount from the client
11:14	Not sure if it'll work over sshfs, or if it'll need nfs, etc
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11:27	<Roasted_> alkisg, I will have a fat client available for testing in 30 minutes
11:27	What are you suggesting I do when I have the time available?
11:27	I'll be away from my laptop for the next few minutes but I'll check it when I can. Thanks.
11:31	<pmatulis_> on ubuntu how do i enable remote client logging? used to be you edit /etc/default/syslogd but now there is rsyslog
11:31	(i'm getting 'no response from server' when i try to log in from a client)
11:33	using Lucid
11:41	<alkisg> pmatulis_: did you try sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image ?
11:43	<pmatulis_> alkisg: no, yes
11:43	alkisg: i didn't change keys
11:43	<alkisg> pmatulis_: do try it, that message is usually because of ssh keys
11:43	<pmatulis_> alkisg: but but
11:44	<alkisg> Otherwise, put SCREEN_02=shell and SCREEN_07=ldm in lts.conf
11:44	And from vt2 (alt+ctrl+f2), try: ssh user@server
11:44	You'll see the reason there.
11:44	<pmatulis_> alkisg: will try, thanks
11:44	alkisg: any idea on the logging question?
11:44	<alkisg> Change "user" to an existing username, but leave "server" exactly as it is
11:44	Logging is described in the lts.conf man page
11:45	You need to enable remote logging on your server
11:45	But it won't help much, not all ssh output goes to the logs
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12:02	<pmatulis_> alkisg: updating the keys worked. not sure why though
12:03	<alkisg> Usually it's when you change the server ip
12:03	<pmatulis_> alkisg: right. but that didn't happen
12:04	* alkisg uses checkhostip=no to not have to care about any of these ssh keys problems :)
12:05	<pmatulis_> alkisg: where is this put?
12:06	<alkisg> In lts.conf, but it makes the system a little less secure. LDM_SSHOPTIONS="-o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o CheckHostIP=no -o LogLevel=silent"
12:06	<pmatulis_> alkisg: interesting
12:15	<Roasted_> alright, back
12:16	alkisg, is there anything you want me to test on the fat client server?
12:16	<alkisg> Roasted_: to run gvfs-mount on the server (e.g. with ssh with that user) and then try to access it from the fat client, either with sshfs or with nfs
12:17	* alkisg is kinda busy right now, so can't help with the exact steps.bbl.
12:17	<Roasted_> alkisg, alright. I'm going to bring my laptop down to the lab so I'm not running.
12:17	alkisg, no problem. I appreciate your help, as always. I'll give it a shot and maybe later we can discuss it, if that'd be all right.
12:20	* alkisg gives the nfs approach to access ~/.gvfs much better chances to succeed than the sshfs approach.
12:20	<Roasted_> dumb question - is nfs what ltsp uses by default?
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12:21	<pmatulis_> Roasted_: depends what OS and OS version you're using
12:21	<Roasted_> Edubuntu 10.10 64 bit.
12:22	<pmatulis_> Roasted_: no, NBD is used
12:22	<Roasted_> How does NBD stack up against sshfs or nfs?
12:22	wait isnt NBD NFS based?
12:22	<pmatulis_> Roasted_: no
12:23	* alkisg was talking about nfs mounted home dir, not nfs mounted chroot
12:23	<Roasted_> oh
12:23	my bad :P
12:23	<alkisg> ~/.gvfs
12:25	<Roasted_> alkisg, from a fat client I just ran gvfs-mount smb://storage01/students and it prompts for my password. I'm on a fat client box right now logged in as my domain user.
12:25	<alkisg> Roasted_: yeah I was suggesting you do that from the server, not from the fat client
12:25	Forget it, it seems that the required steps are a little too difficult to go through them on your own
12:26	<Roasted_> well then...
12:26	<alkisg> Some other day when me or others will be available to help you
12:26	<Roasted_> well, sorry I wasted your time.
12:27	<alkisg> (10:17:03 PM) ***alkisg is kinda busy right now, so can't help with the exact steps.bbl.
12:27	I did say that :)
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12:28	<Roasted_> either way, it failed. "volume doesn't implement mount." Thanks for your help. Back to thin land.
12:29	<alkisg> Sure, that's not about thin vs fat
12:29	It's about remote access to gvfs mounted dirs on the server
12:29	Localapps would also need that
12:29	And with that, bbl, for real now :)
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15:33	<roasted> Does the SHUTDOWN_TIME variant still apply even if the client is in use at the time?
15:36	It's an attractive option but I don't want the clients to shut off if someone is using the box, since once in a blue moon somebody might stay after to use the lab.
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17:40	<roasted> so I'm toying with the shutdown feature... but my client is white screening when the shutdown time hits...
18:41	I wonder if testing it in 2 minute increments was a bad idea. I got a white screen, red screen, etc. I began testing it in 5-10 minute increments and it works predictably each time. It's also nice to see that it holds any active user sessions too and shuts down on its own once the client logs out
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22:47	<aa____> how to map local disk in ltsp kiosk mpde
22:48	<muppis> Set LOCALDEV in lts.conf
22:52	<aa____> where is this file
22:52	lts.conf
22:52	<vagrantc> LOCALDEV is usually enabled by default
22:52	aa____: do you mean local usb sticks, or internal devices
22:53	<aa____> yes i want local hardisk to be detect in kiosk mode
22:53	<vagrantc> LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS=false
22:53	<muppis> Then it is localdev_deny_internal_disks
22:54	<aa____> where is these setting ,,,let me know
22:54	so that i can change
22:54	<vagrantc> aa____: either /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf or /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
22:55	<aa____> on both i need to change or i can change anywhere
22:55	<vagrantc> ?
22:55	<muppis> I think tftboot is preferred one.
22:55	<vagrantc> depends on your distro
22:56	<aa____> k i have 9.10 ubuntu jaunty distro
22:56	<vagrantc> in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
22:56	then
22:57	<aa____> but in this location there is no lts.conf file available
22:57	<vagrantc> just create it
22:57	<aa____> k then
22:57	<vagrantc> first line: [default]
22:58	<aa____> k
22:58	then
22:58	<vagrantc> and then one line for each value you want to configure
22:59	<aa____> k but i dont know how to configure for locahardisk
22:59	can u please help me out for this
23:00	<vagrantc> do you remember what i said earlier?
23:00	<aa____> LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS=false this line u said
23:00	<vagrantc> yes.
23:00	put that in lts.conf
23:02	<aa____> k i have done this now i need to update ltsp image
23:02	<vagrantc> no need to update the image
23:03	<aa____> k
23:03	<vagrantc> only when you change /opt/ltsp/i386/*
23:03	that's why they moved lts.conf to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
23:04	<aa____> actually i am doing virtualization , and m using pxe boot for the client
23:04	and desktop is coming from the server ....so let me know it will work for me
23:04	<alkisg> Kiosk is a localapp, right? Do those access local disks through ltspfs?
23:04	Maybe an fstab entry would be better
23:06	<aa____> in my case we are using ltsp only for pxe boot and on client side we are putting blank hardisk and desktop is coming from server
23:06	on that desktop it is showing server hardisk but we want that local hardisk to be show
23:10	alkisg : u got my point
23:10	<alkisg> aa____: not really, I thought you were using a kiosk mode, with no desktop
23:11	<aa____> yes exactly but after that we are putting one url in firefox throught that we are login into virtual desktop
23:11	on that virtual desktop i want local hardisk to be shown
23:11	<alkisg> What virtual desktop?
23:12	<aa____> it is something like opensource desktop virtulization product
23:12	that we are using
23:13	<alkisg> Is it a java applet?
23:13	<aa____> yes
23:13	<alkisg> And are you sure a java applet has access to local hard disks?
23:14	<aa____> yes when we are booting on xp machine, and we are using this desktop on internet explore or firefox it is showing localhardisk
23:14	<alkisg> And you can save things there?
23:14	<aa____> but the same thing we want with pxe boot with no os on client side
23:15	<alkisg> OK. Well yes I think you only want an fstab entry
23:16	<aa____> k but i don't have exact idea how to do that .....can u please help me out with single user entry so that i can go further
23:16	thanks if u can do for us
23:16	<alkisg> distro/version?
23:16	<aa____> 9.10 ubuntu
23:17	<alkisg> Do you know how to write a regular fstab, on non-ltsp systems?
23:17	<aa____> not exactly u need to tell me
23:19	alkisg : can u just let me know how to do for one user then i can go forword
23:20	<alkisg> It's not per user, you mount the local disk for all the users at once
23:20	You can read about fstab in its man page
23:20	(or ask in #ubuntu etc)
23:20	The ltsp specific part is: CONFIGURE_FSTAB=False
23:20	You put that in lts.conf, and put whatever entries you want in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab
23:21	Then run sudo ltsp-update-image, and the local disk should be automatically mounted
23:21	To see an fstab example, on your server, run: cat /etc/fstab
23:21	<aa____> k but every user can see that partition or only that perticular user can see who is botting through pxe
23:22	<alkisg> I don't understand what you're asking. How is "every user" booting?
23:22	<vagrantc> this sounds like a pretty unusual setup for LTSP
23:22	<alkisg> Do you also have a local installation?
23:23	vagrantc: do you think it would be better to access the local disk, from the local firefox, through ltspfs?
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23:23	<alkisg> (in fat clients the user mounts the local disks from the gui, automatically, with udisks helper)
23:23	<aa____> no what i mean exactly .......suppost i mount a blank hardisk on fstab here , and put that hardisk on client side ,,, now he is booting through pxe and now tell me he can access that hardisk
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23:25	<alkisg> aa____: I'm not sure I understood. But if you modify /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/fstab, then the changes affect all the pxe booted computers
23:26	<aa____> k
23:27	ya that we don't want ....what we want suppose i am having blank hardisk on my desktop and booting through pxe and m getting firefox right ,\
23:27	on that m putting url so that i can get the virtual desktop
23:28	and that blank hardisk i mounted on fstab
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23:28	<aa____> that i want to use
23:28	<alkisg> Yes, that's what it does
23:30	<aa____> k let me try this and i will get back to u
23:30	is there any module we need to install for that or we can do it direcly
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00:00	--- Thu Apr 7 2011