IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 September 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:51 | <nutron> ola, anyone know what I can do to fire zenity to the user when the shutdown command is about to run? seems that people are bypassing the auto shutdown deal by staying logged in.
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| 02:15 | <gnunux> hi
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| 04:06 | <nutron> i don't see much information regarding the printer filters available in lts.conf. I did run across the logged discussion on irc about having a patched cups... but debian and ubuntu distribute it? well the filtering isn't working. what do I need to install for the filtering to work?
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| 05:00 | <markit> hi, I'm at school with 15 clients, kubuntu 10.04 and things go almost fine, except some problems :)
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| 05:01 | a) a pc logs, but after some time logoff automatically, even if I login with a different user (and all user are just created so with the same config). All the other pc work fine in this regard
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| 05:01 | b) 2 pc frooze if I work a little
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| 05:02 | c) all screen become black after a too short period of time, have to check the kde config for that, but I've been able to find only for the admin at the console
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| 05:02 | so I ask
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| 05:02 | any tip for a) and c), and a good test for b)?
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| 05:07 | <markit> mmm running kstars in 2 pc, is slow like hell
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| 05:14 | <markit> ok, a) I noticed starts entering in kde, then logogg, so there must be some problems with video board or something like that
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| 07:45 | <dgroos> Hi All -- I'm trying to get totem to work as localapp with Lucid 64 server. Already have Firefox working great as localapp.
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| 07:47 | I'm a teacher and muck around in this stuff but do know some stuff but can't find a web page that gives enough info. Do I just install totem to the chroot and...
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| 07:49 | <dgroos> add "totem" to the list on the /var/lib/tftpf/ltsp/i386/lts.conf?
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| 08:09 | Another day...
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| 08:10 | more specifically, back after students leave for the day.
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| 09:23 | <[GuS]> Guys, a quick question: if i need to enable nvidia propietary driver, where i do install it? in the server or in the LTSP chroot?
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| 09:24 | <gnunux> in chroot
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| 09:24 | <[GuS]> ok, thanks.
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| 10:03 | <markit> dgroos: ping!
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| 10:03 | dgroos: hi, could you please send me the english version of the tool for pc monitor that alkisg has created?
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| 10:03 | he has released a new version yesterday (more or less)
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| 10:05 | dgroos: in private I've wrote you my email addresses, thanks in advance
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| 10:17 | <mnemoc> hi, i'm partitioning a machine that will be (x)ubuntu 10.04 LTSP, where will LTSP install it's stuff? opt?
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| 10:18 | <mnemoc> usr ?
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| 10:18 | <muppis> mnemoc, mostly under opt
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| 10:19 | <mnemoc> thanks
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| 10:58 | <dgroos> markit: hmmm... check spam folder, I sent it last week. Also, resent again. (for when you get back online...)
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| 11:02 | <dgroos> Only sound (no video) when viewing movie (screencast) on thin clients. When viewed on server, everything works.
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| 11:02 | I'd like to solve this issue or perhaps better yet run totem locally--as localapp.
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| 11:04 | Could find no documentation on this, tried installing things on server and in chroot, updating ltsp-image, updating lts.conf but not working still. Any help appreciated.
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| 11:04 | alkisg: thanks for the update with sch-scripts, I've got it installed and am learning to read Greek.
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| 11:05 | <alkisg> dgroos: heh, sorry for that, if you need help on any word ping me
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| 11:05 | <dgroos> (actually, just remembered menu locations :))
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| 11:06 | alkisg: did you get a copy of the translated glade I sent you and markit? Seems he didn't get it.
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| 11:06 | <alkisg> dgroos: also check if it works if you start it from a thin client - I put the changes we tested before, but I didn't test them again before release
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| 11:06 | dgroos: nope
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| 11:06 | * alkisg checks gmail spam... | |
| 11:06 | <dgroos> :( ???
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| 11:07 | it has some copied code there, maybe spam checkers don't like it?
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| 11:08 | <alkisg> Maybe it was rejected, I don't see it in spam
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| 11:09 | dgroos: about totem: vlc is much easier as a localapp, maybe you want to try this instead
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| 11:10 | totem wants gconf, which doesn't work good with localapps...
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| 11:10 | <dgroos> I'll resend but post the code on pastebin...
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> Or just attach it as a .zip file
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| 11:13 | <dgroos> I tried to install vlc both on server and chroot and have vlc mentioned on the lts.conf file but still doesn't work...
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| 11:14 | right! .zip...
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| 11:26 | <alkisg> dgroos: You just need it on the chroot. I've tried it at 9.04 and it worked fine (I've switched to fat clients since so I didn't try it again)
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| 11:30 | <dgroos> alkisg: Would you see if this error makes sense to you? I get it when I try to start vlc from the CLI... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/495390/
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| 11:31 | <alkisg> dgroos: that's on the server, not on the client
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| 11:31 | dgroos@gcos-server
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| 11:31 | <dgroos> alkisg: I'll be using sch-scripts from a terminal all day so I'll have something to report by end of day. Already noted improvement and a couple of issues but need more testing.
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| 11:32 | <alkisg> dgroos: also, I didn't manage to reproduce the sabayon problem, so if you want to show it to me with vnc, I'll have some time in about an hour...
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| 11:34 | <dgroos> Sure. So, how do I launch it from a client? I don't see a menu item and it auto launches totem when double-clicking movie in the gui.
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| 11:35 | <alkisg> !localxterm
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| 11:35 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "localxterm" :: while sitting on a thin client, open a gnome terminal. In that, run: ltsp-localapps xterm. An xterm will open. That xterm runs locally, so any commands you enter there are executed directly on the client.
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| 11:35 | <alkisg> Try running vlc on a localxterm
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| 11:36 | <dgroos> alkisg: I'll be in front of student again in about 25 minutes. If you're still around after 3:00 (3.5 hours) and it still works for you I'm game. Thanks.
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| 11:36 | alkisg: will do...
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| 11:36 | <alkisg> I think I'll be here then, np
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| 11:39 | <dgroos> alkisg: got exactly same error printout with running on xterm except that it said dgroos@ltsp44. I'll try google...
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| 11:40 | <alkisg> dgroos: did you install the vlc recommented dependencies?
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| 11:40 | Ah, only vlc-plugin-pulse there...
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| 11:42 | <dgroos> Thought so...
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| 11:42 | no quick google-joy...
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| 11:43 | I'll check about installing vlc again.
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| 11:50 | <PMantis> Hi Guys
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| 11:54 | <PMantis> I have 10 HP/Compac computers that I've been using for a year as thin clients... this year, using 5.2 on Ubuntu. Now, some thin clients will boot to LDM, play the sounds at login, then bomb, going in an infinite look, of initializing the display, exiting.
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| 11:54 | I installed sshd on the ltsp image, logged in and use lshw, free, etc to audit what's in it.
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| 11:55 | I have some that have 236 MB RAM, some 497MB. In this case, the one with less ram works, more ram does not.
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| 11:56 | The only commonality I found was if it's an Intel video card, fail. nVidia card, works.
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| 11:56 | On a couple intel vid TC's that I checked, syslog has the following, repeated, over and over: Sep 17 08:53:59 ltsp230 kernel: [ 1754.133830] [drm:i915_gem_entervt_ioctl] *ERROR* Reenabling wedged hardware, good luck
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| 11:57 | I'm done typing. :-) Ideas anyone?
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| 11:58 | <vagrantc> PMantis: so they sucessfully log in as the user, but then bail?
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| 11:58 | might be a compiz issue, if that's the case...
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| 11:58 | !compiz
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| 11:58 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "compiz" :: if compiz is giving you problems, one way to disable it for all users is: sudo gconftool-2 --direct --config-source xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.mandatory --type string --set /desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager metacity
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| 11:58 | <PMantis> Yes, bail just before the desktop shows up. Usually it kills the sound while it's playing
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| 11:59 | Hmmm
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| 11:59 | <vagrantc> i *think* that sounds like a compiz issue, but i haven't ever experienced it myself :)
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| 11:59 | <PMantis> I'll bite
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| 11:59 | reboting one now.
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| 12:01 | works!
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| 12:01 | WHOOOHOO!
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| 12:01 | Thanks vagrantc
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| 12:02 | Gotta try one more thin client, just to see. heh
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| 12:04 | <PMantis> vagrantc, Yeah, that works too. But, one little oddity with that one.
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| 12:05 | When I log off, LDM displays without a background image.
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| 12:09 | <vagrantc> that, i don't know
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| 12:11 | <PMantis> Awwww, you had such a good start. :)
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| 12:11 | Any ideas to really tweak for performance?
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| 12:12 | Maybe I can rip out some packages in the LTSP chroot
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| 12:43 | <muppis> Intel videocards lacks support of 3D acceleration, that's why they fails with compiz.
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| 12:43 | <johnny> huh?
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| 12:43 | that's not true
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| 12:43 | <muppis> Ok, old ones.
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| 12:43 | <johnny> even most of the old ones
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| 12:43 | everything above 815 should work
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| 12:44 | i guess it depends on your definition of old
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| 12:44 | oh.. and one exclusion.. the one for what they call poulsbo
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| 12:44 | as it has a closed source driver
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| 12:45 | the one of the many
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| 12:45 | <muppis> Actually, I haven't follow version numbering, but around with first P4
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| 12:45 | 's
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| 12:55 | <[GuS]> Guys, a question. when i try to log in a thin client i have this: http://pastebin.com/6URVtfBe with one of my servers, in others the login works.
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| 12:55 | which could be the problem?
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| 12:58 | something with sftp i guess
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| 13:11 | <markit> hi ppl :) hi alkisg
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> Hi markit
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| 13:11 | <markit> I've been at school, and had no problems for the login
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| 13:12 | fortunatly :) but had some other problems
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| 13:12 | a pc was unable to connect, double checked the cable.. at the end the problem was with the patch from the panel and the switch!
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| 13:12 | two pc instead freeze sometime after some work
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| 13:13 | I think that the 4 core and 8GB of ram is not too much for the 16 clients
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| 13:13 | I've the feeling that the only good solution would be "fat clients", not thin... thin is for desperate people (like me at the moment) with too old hw
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| 13:14 | italc is pratically useless
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> It crashes?
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| 13:14 | <markit> crashes and does not anymore until you reboot everything
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| 13:14 | yep.. I was showing teacher screen to all clients
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> Yeah, I've seen that too often, that's why we developed sch-scripts
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| 13:14 | <markit> after some time the server had no more the italc "master" control panel
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| 13:15 | and if you restart it, tells that can't find the client part
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| 13:15 | <alkisg> Btw sch-scripts generates a dual fat/thin chroot, where good clients automatically boot as fat and older ones as thin
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| 13:15 | That's the default installation here
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| 13:15 | <markit> alkisg: isn't this feature supported by stock ltsp? (be able to have thin and fat clients)
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| 13:16 | the bad thing of fat installation is that the programs have to be installed in fat-chroot, it does not use the "server" ones like thin clients do, or am I wrong?
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> Yup, I've put some support for that (e.g. FAT_RAM_THRESHOLD) so sch-scripts just automates it and adds some ltsp_config script for autodetected best values
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| 13:16 | <markit> so I have to install and configure for teacher and thin, and keep in sync with fat chroot
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> Yes, you need to maintain 2 installations (server+chroot) instead of 1 (just server)
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| 13:17 | We use "package-lists" for that
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| 13:17 | <markit> wow, fabolous that threshold... hate have to specify macaddress
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| 13:17 | never heard of package-lists, will google
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> Nah that's just sch-scripts, it supports installing package lists to both the server + chroot, depending on the education level (primary, secondary etc)
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| 13:18 | <markit> dgross was here at 17:00 (my time) but did not replied.. hope got my message and will send me the english version of sch-scripts
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> He sent it about 1 hour ago
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| 13:18 | <markit> alkisg: oh, good
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| 13:18 | so kind
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| 13:19 | btw, I think is better create children account with their name+lastname, like m.menardi
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| 13:19 | because it facilitates the teacher in recognizing them
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| 13:19 | <alkisg> If you have 1 student per PC, sure
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| 13:19 | <markit> mmm I've 2, bad situation in any case, no?
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> Here we use usernames like: u01a1, u02a1, ..., u01a2 etc,
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| 13:20 | and the students then set both of their names as the "real name", and their own passwords
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| 13:20 | (using the "usermode" utility)
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| 13:20 | <markit> so what's the difference? if Ronald Brown is u02a1 or r.brown?
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| 13:20 | if works with another student, they will have to choose what login use
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| 13:21 | <alkisg> u02a1 is "Ronald Brown - Jessica Rabbit"
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| 13:21 | <markit> ah, fixed couples?
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| 13:21 | <alkisg> Right
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| 13:21 | And if they want to sit elsewhere, they just change the names themselves
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| 13:21 | <markit> interesting aproach, I hate it, would love have 1 pc per student
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| 13:21 | <alkisg> No need for root access etc
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| 13:21 | This way we also know who sits where (02 is the pc name)
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| 13:22 | <markit> so sch-script shows their "real name", and not only login name like itac when lists all pc screens?
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| 13:22 | <alkisg> There's an option under the users menu, to show either their real name or their username
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| 13:22 | <markit> well, I could sit wherever I want, and login with u01a2...
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| 13:22 | <alkisg> Sure, but then the teacher will yell at you :)
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| 13:22 | ...and the students sitting on that other pc too
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| 13:23 | <markit> lol, right
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| 13:23 | <alkisg> So if we find written stuff on the monitor, we might know better who did it
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| 13:23 | <markit> btw, does happen to you also that some pc freezes? what do you suggest? try to troubleshoot or throw them away? don't know what I can finetune in ltsp
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| 13:24 | ah, more important problem
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> I once had a lab that freezed, debugging showed that it was due to realtek cards
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| 13:24 | <markit> for the teacher I've found kde settings for "energy saving" preventing the monitor to turn off
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| 13:24 | (and never be able to recover... sigh)
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> No idea about kde, sorry
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| 13:24 | <markit> but also the clients go in black screen after 2-3 minutes
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| 13:24 | that is not acceptable
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| 13:25 | but the setting panel for the thin clients does not show the option to modify energy profile
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| 13:25 | is it a problem with gnome also?
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| 13:25 | special care to have?
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| 13:25 | <alkisg> "but the setting panel for the thin clients" ==> what?
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| 13:25 | What setting panel?
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| 13:25 | <markit> K -> system settings -> Energy saving....
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> Ah, kde again, no idea there...
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| 13:26 | <markit> I mean, seems something only the admin can change
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| 13:26 | yes, I know you don't know kde, I'm asking if gnome has same problem or not
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| 13:26 | <alkisg> Then those are the server settings
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| 13:27 | <johnny> gnome has the same problems, but we know how to modify it globally with gconf
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| 13:27 | we don't know how to do it for kde
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| 13:27 | so go ask them
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| 13:27 | <markit> johnny: ok, thanks, at least I know the "right direction"
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| 13:27 | in any case, a ltsp is put on in a snap, but to make it run properly is a really painfull job, OMHO
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| 13:28 | dinner time, wife screaming, be back after food :)
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| 13:28 | * alkisg goes back to creating a "copy files uncompressed over the local network by using tar + nc + ssh" script... | |
| 13:28 | <markit> thanks a lot alkisg, johnny
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| 13:28 | <alkisg> np
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| 13:28 | <johnny> markit, stop using kde
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| 13:28 | stop blaming ltsp for kde failure
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| 13:29 | <markit> johnny: a) ltsp should not be "only for gnome", is a general solution
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| 13:29 | <johnny> sure, but the problem is not ltsp at all
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| 13:29 | it's the desktpos problem to solve
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| 13:29 | we cannot
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| 13:29 | <markit> b) I'm not blaming ltsp for kde failure, I've had a lot of problems ltsp or hardware related
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| 13:29 | <johnny> that's not a problem with ltsp :)
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| 13:29 | ltsp can only use the tools the distros give us
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| 13:30 | and the desktops need to be designedto be friendly for modifications
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| 13:30 | <markit> c) I use kde since long long time, is impossible for me learn gnome just for my children school and give them support
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| 13:30 | <johnny> kde is obviously not
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| 13:30 | so.. it is a kde problem for them not being ready for ltsp.. gnome follows standards..
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| 13:30 | obviously kde doesn't follow them all
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| 13:30 | <markit> johnny: why not? I've done a lot of settings so far in kde
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| 13:30 | <johnny> they follow many, but not all
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| 13:30 | i'm sure.. but you've had to fight it all the way
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| 13:30 | just saying.. it's not an ltsp problem
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| 13:30 | i thought your comment was unfair
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| 13:30 | <markit> johnny: don't understand your fight attitude
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| 13:31 | <johnny> because you made an unfair comment
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| 13:31 | <markit> which one?
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| 13:31 | <johnny> blaining ltsp
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| 13:31 | : in any case, a ltsp is put on in a snap, but to make it run properly is a really painfull job, OMHO
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| 13:31 | this..
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| 13:31 | <markit> johnny: I had nbd-proxy problem
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| 13:31 | <johnny> it works out of the box for many
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| 13:31 | that's an ubuntu problem.. we're sorryabout that one
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| 13:31 | <markit> I had a lot of problems in setting the hardware
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| 13:31 | etc.
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| 13:31 | <johnny> i never say it's problem free ..
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| 13:32 | that actually is an ltsp problem
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| 13:32 | the nbd proxy
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| 13:32 | <markit> so I just told that ltsp configures in a snap, but provide a ltsp solution is not trivial
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| 13:32 | <johnny> sure, but the stuff you're talkingabout now is not something we can fix
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| 13:32 | <markit> I've not blamed ltsp, sorry you are so susceptible for what I did not meant
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| 13:32 | and so?
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| 13:32 | <johnny> i just dn't want you to go telling other people that .. especially gnome users .. (except the nbd problem)
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| 13:32 | the nbd problem is a bad problem
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| 13:33 | <markit> johnny: you misunderstood completely my consideration
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| 13:33 | so is useless try to persuade you, I think
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| 13:33 | <johnny> i think your comment was just too general is all
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| 13:34 | <markit> johnny: I've been talking with my friend alkisg about the fact that I had a lot of work, something that if you really setup a school should know about
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| 13:34 | "make it run properly" was meant as "whole solution"
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| 13:34 | <alkisg> markit: well, to be fair, I think setting up a school with ltsp is about 10 times easier than e.g. using windows for it
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| 13:34 | <markit> in fact I told can be setup in a snap
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| 13:34 | alkisg: don't know what windows is, sorry
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| 13:35 | <alkisg> But the needs are too diverse to make a globally accepted solution
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| 13:35 | markit: ok, or, standalone linux installations.
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| 13:35 | Or, any other os...
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| 13:35 | Was it easier with some other solution?
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| 13:35 | <markit> alkisg: is the first time I try to setup a school
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| 13:35 | that was the meaning of my consideration
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> It's a big job, sure. But the *easiest* way I've found to do it, is LTSP
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| 13:36 | <markit> seems an easy job, since you try ltsp and setup in a snap in your home
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| 13:36 | but when you go in the "real world", you find plenty of problems you did not thought in advance
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| 13:36 | that's all :)
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> I've tried several other solutions over the years, none worked as fast/good as ltsp
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| 13:36 | <markit> I'm sure, but you have to agree
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| 13:36 | <alkisg> E.g. now I can setup a lab in 1 hour, if all goes well
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| 13:37 | <markit> than you probably thought was easyer the first time you tried
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| 13:37 | <alkisg> Of course there are labs where linux won't even run.
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| 13:37 | The first time my expectations were low
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| 13:38 | <markit> oh, mine were high, since I tried ltsp and was good, but once you have to recycle 16 pc and make work... well.. is another story
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| 13:38 | <alkisg> I wasn't looking for automatic user creation, correct file access rights for accounts, classroom administration tools etc
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| 13:38 | When I got the first installation going, then I thought, ok, why not add more stuff like those? ^^^
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| 13:38 | <markit> also italc is a pain, and I can't do anything without a solution like that (thanks for your one!)
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| 13:39 | mmm I think that there are windows solutions out there, and teacher don't understand the pain they are, but want the same feature
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> Right, we don't have good classroom administration tools in linux (that's why sch-scripts were born), but there are no floss classroom administration tools on other OSes too
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| 13:39 | <markit> have you ever tried the FOSS project? an italian one
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| 13:39 | FUSS sorry
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> E.g. netsupport, netop etc => out of the question, we don't have money for those and we don't want piracy
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| 13:40 | <markit> but don't remember if the doc is in italian only or also in english
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> No, I haven't tried FOSS
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| 13:40 | FUSS
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| 13:40 | <markit> also this is interesting http://www.linuxnetlive.org/index.php?lang=en
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| 13:41 | (fuss site is only in italian)
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| 13:41 | they have build admin tools, for ldap and so on
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| 13:41 | <alkisg> For a premade solution, have a look at skolelinux (debian-edu)
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| 13:41 | <markit> but seemd overkill for my "simple classroom"
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| 13:41 | oh, yes, skolelinux.. wasn't good?
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> It's good for their needs
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| 13:42 | It doesn't fit ours, so we needed a new solution
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| 13:42 | LTSP is generic enough to fit all solutions, but of course then the sysadmin needs to provide the glue
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| 13:42 | <markit> I've to run, wife screaming, would love to continue the conversation on this subject later, I'm very interested in it
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| 13:43 | <alkisg> Bye
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| 13:43 | <[GuS]> Guys, a question. when i try to log in a thin client i have this: http://pastebin.com/6URVtfBe with one of my servers, in other server the login works. Any tip?
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| 13:43 | <markit> johnny: in any case, apologise if what I said soulded rough to you. I like your love to ltsp :)
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| 13:45 | <johnny> it's ok
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| 14:01 | <PMantis> I don't know how, but I busted my LTSP 5.2 install.
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| 14:01 | At LDM, "verifying username and password".... hangs... back to LDM
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> Ubuntu?
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| 14:02 | <PMantis> Yes
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| 14:02 | <alkisg> sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
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| 14:02 | <PMantis> Funny, I did that, too.
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| 14:03 | Tailing log files on the thin client and the server.
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 14:04 | [Default]
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| 14:04 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 14:04 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 14:04 | Reboot client, switch to vt2 by pressing alt+ctrl+f2
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| 14:04 | <PMantis> Trying sshkeys update again, just to be sure my frustration isn't failing my memory
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> There, run: ssh user@server
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| 14:04 | <PMantis> alkisg, Is the only purpose for that to get a shell?
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> A local shell, yes
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| 14:04 | <PMantis> I'm SSH'd into the thin client.
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> Ah, ok, then, run: ssh user@server
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| 14:05 | <vagrantc> PMantis: a reboot is also necessary
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> See if you get any warnings at all
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| 14:05 | <PMantis> vagrantc, for the long story, I was installing a new environment... ltsp-build-image. Ran out of disk space, slapd crashed, etc.
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| 14:06 | rebooted the server, then the thin client
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| 14:06 | Hmmm, authenticity of host cannot be verified.... that what the sshkeys update fixes?
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 14:07 | <PMantis> I *know* I ran that a few times.
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| 14:07 | Hmmm
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| 14:07 | <alkisg> And ltsp-update-image afterwards?
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| 14:08 | !learn localshell as to get a local root shell on a thin client, add "SCREEN_02=shell" and "SCREEN_07=ldm" to your lts.conf, reboot the client, and press Alt+Ctrl+F2 to switch to vt2.
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| 14:08 | <ltspbot> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 14:08 | <PMantis> alkisg, I think you're right, but that still confuses me
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| 14:09 | alkisg, I ssh'd manually from the TC to the server, accepted... then LDM worked.
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> PMantis: try ltsp-update-image and reboot client
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| 14:09 | <PMantis> I updated the image, rebooting
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| 14:09 | heh
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| 14:10 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that won't work with debian, as there's a getty running on tty2 by default...
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| 14:11 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ok I was following the sbalneav's template, should we go for SCREEN_06 then?
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| 14:11 | !forget localshell
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| 14:11 | <ltspbot> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: SCREEN_06 also has something running
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| 14:12 | alkisg: 7 is the first available
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> Hmmm 7 is where X starts on Ubuntu
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that's the default for LTSP for X, yes.
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| 14:12 | <PMantis> alkisg, It's working. I would have bet money that I already ran that as well as updated the image.
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> and more or less on debian
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| 14:13 | <PMantis> alkisg, Thanks for setting me straight. I was getting frustrated.
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> np
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| 14:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but putting SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_08=shell requires SCREEN_DEFAULT=07 in order to behave sanely...
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| 14:13 | <PMantis> alkisg, gtg, my kids are waiting to leave the school. :)
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> Ugh, too complicated...
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| 14:13 | Bye :)
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| 14:13 | PMantis has quit IRC | |
| 14:13 | <vagrantc> well, it doesn't require it, just with recent changes it'll default to shell instead of ldm...
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> vagrantc: shouldn't SCREEN_02=shell put a shell there instead of getty?
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| 14:14 | Can we make some change in ltsp for that to work without breaking anything?
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| 14:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'd like to see the code that hacks up /etc/inittab dynamically :P
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| 14:14 | <alkisg> Ah, ok :)
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| 14:14 | <vagrantc> and restarts init
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| 14:15 | i think ubuntu handles it using methods that are forbidden by debian-policy.
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| 14:15 | well, maybe not strictly forbidden, but close...
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| 14:15 | * alkisg thinks that dynamically writing /root/etc/inittab it from the initramfs would do it, given write access :D | |
| 14:16 | <vagrantc> could pull something like that, yes...
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so, one simple way to make it work right would be SCREEN_07=shell / SCREEN_08=ldm ?
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sure, that'd work, although it'd confuse the common behavior of X on tty7
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| 14:17 | although honestly, running several gettys on a thin client is really a bit of a waste...
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| 14:17 | not a huge waste, but still
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> Couldn't ltsp-build-client then modify inittab?
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| 14:17 | I think that's what ubuntu does
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| 14:17 | <vagrantc> yeah, could do that...
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| 14:17 | ubuntu uses upstart, so i think it can simply remove some files
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> (at least I saw something about ttys in the code...)
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| 14:18 | Ah right, 010-cleanup-consoles: rm $ROOT/etc/event.d/tty[2-6]
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| 14:18 | ...and rm $ROOT/etc/init/tty[2-6].conf for upstart
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| 14:18 | <vagrantc> that'd be too disruptive for the next release
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| 14:19 | problem is that it'll prompt on upgrades of init needlessly...
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| 14:19 | dynamically doing it from the initramfs, while a touch ugly, avoids that problem.
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| 14:20 | <alkisg> Well, if ever debian switches to upstart too, problem will be automatically solved :)
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| 14:20 | vagrantc: would a 00-ltsp-setup initscript be able to do it too?
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| 14:20 | <vagrantc> not automatically...
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| 14:20 | <alkisg> Or does it need to be from the initramfs?
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> it would need to be from the initramfs, unless you want to re-run init
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> k
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> it would be cleanest from the initramfs
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> Ah we could just `chroot root run-some-file` to keep the initramfs smaller...
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| 14:21 | <vagrantc> right
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| 14:21 | <alkisg> I think you already do that for something
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> that also means you can have a full suite of tools available to work the evil spells
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> Sounds good enough
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> would make it harder to troubleshoot for squashfs nbd setups... but not for NFS or writeable NBD :)
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| 14:23 | * alkisg loves writable nbd :) | |
| 14:24 | <vagrantc> should be reasonably well supported
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| 14:24 | even though debian's never switched to NBD by default, it actually probably has better support for it :)
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| 14:33 | redbaritone has quit IRC | |
| 14:42 | <markit> mm I'm trying to boot with pxe on board of a pc with gbit ethernet, and is slow like hell in "loading vmlinux.." and then "loading initrd.img". From ldm to desktop is then fast as expected
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| 14:42 | with gpxe boots fast
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| 14:42 | clark has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:43 | <markit> anyone has experienced problems like this and can suggest any settings somewhere? (I'm using dnsmasq as dhcp and tftp)
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| 14:43 | maybe a "legacy mode", lol
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| 14:45 | pmatulis has quit IRC | |
| 14:45 | <markit> alkisg: got the mail from dgross. the attach is a .glade file. Now I will have a look at your project (if I can find the link) and try to figure out how to mix .glade and how to make it work
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| 14:46 | <alkisg> markit: try using tftpd-hpa
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| 14:47 | <markit> alkisg: because you have tried dnsmasq too and found has some problems, or just a generic suggestion?
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| 14:47 | <alkisg> markit: I've seen differences between them once, so it might solve your problem
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| 14:47 | <markit> alkisg: thanks
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| 14:49 | <clark> Hello, someone here using gentoo and ltsp 5 using config like: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/LTSP
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| 14:49 | i have some strange problems with not starting graphical session...
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| 14:49 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 14:56 | <johnny> clark, you did install a desktop environment
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| 14:56 | ?
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| 14:56 | clark, also.. gentoo ltsp needs a real maintainer
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| 14:56 | i wrote it, but don't have a gentoo box
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| 14:56 | [GuS] has quit IRC | |
| 14:56 | <clark> ahhh, looks like fun...
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| 14:56 | WHat do you mean with install a desktop environment?
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| 14:57 | <johnny> gnome?
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| 14:57 | kde?
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| 14:57 | <clark> i installed the X-Server and some windowmanagers
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| 14:57 | <johnny> your server needs one
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| 14:57 | <clark> yes, kde, fluxbox, etc.
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| 14:57 | <johnny> it needs to provide an session file
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| 14:57 | anyways.. those instructions are not correct
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| 14:57 | whoever wrote it needs to talk to me
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| 14:57 | <clark> oh, whats incorrect?
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| 14:57 | <johnny> most of it?
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| 14:57 | <clark> X needs to be started?
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| 14:57 | <johnny> all the pulse crap
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| 14:57 | <clark> nice...
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| 14:57 | <johnny> no.. X doesn't need to be started
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| 14:58 | <clark> where does this error come from: "]: FAIL: ldminfod address from=192.168.2.69"
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| 14:58 | <johnny> not sue why it tells you to run the quickstart command manually either
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| 14:58 | do you hae /etc/xinet.d ? or whatever?
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| 14:58 | and ldminfod in there?
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| 14:58 | <clark> yes
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| 14:59 | <johnny> i wonder if it's already started
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| 14:59 | it's really not recommended to use gentoo at this point for ltsp, unless you want to be a maintainer :(
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| 14:59 | <clark> service ldminfod\n {\n disable = no
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| 14:59 | <johnny> somebody needs to take it over
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| 14:59 | sup with the \n ?
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| 15:00 | is that a problem with your irc client?
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| 15:00 | <clark> its correctly written in the config
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| 15:00 | <johnny> ok.. good
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| 15:00 | methril_work has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:00 | <clark> i manually added it this way
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| 15:00 | <johnny> well is xinetd started?
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| 15:00 | <methril_work> hi all
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| 15:00 | <clark> yes
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| 15:00 | rwmarch_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:00 | <methril_work> someone has problems with rsh and ldm manager?
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| 15:00 | <johnny> clark, ubuntu really has the best ltsp support around at the moment..
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| 15:00 | <clark> *sniff*
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| 15:00 | <methril_work> iḿ using ubuntu lucid
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| 15:00 | <johnny> methril_work, it only works with ssh
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| 15:00 | <clark> I really like my gentooo....
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| 15:00 | <johnny> clark, do you want to be a maintainer?
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| 15:01 | <methril_work> johnny, ups!! neither if i disable all the xauth params?
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| 15:01 | <clark> don't think i have the time for it :(
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| 15:01 | <johnny> i would certainly teach you everything
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| 15:01 | methril_work, i doubt it
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| 15:01 | why not use ssh?
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| 15:01 | why would you want to use insecure rsh ?
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| 15:01 | <methril_work> johnny, it's a really strange environment
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| 15:02 | johnny, a dosbox sw running on a remote linux server
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| 15:02 | <johnny> well.. make it less strange by installing openssh server
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| 15:02 | that's fine.. ltsp will do that
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| 15:02 | just install ssh client
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| 15:02 | err ssh server
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| 15:02 | what's problematic about that?
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| 15:02 | <methril_work> johnny, but it works with gdm (startx) screen
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| 15:02 | <johnny> so
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| 15:02 | it's not at all the same thing
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| 15:03 | <clark> @johnny perhaps i should try to do a maintainer, but i'm not sure if i have enough time for doing it
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| 15:03 | <methril_work> i would like to know why is not working with ldm
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| 15:03 | <johnny> because it calls ssh internally
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| 15:03 | so you must have ssh running on the remote server
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| 15:03 | <methril_work> ok
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| 15:03 | <johnny> ldm is coded to use ssh and forwarder
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| 15:03 | it also mounts local devices over an ssh mapped socket
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| 15:03 | <methril_work> i'm using without SSH (the forwarder one)
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| 15:04 | <johnny> that's all i can say
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| 15:04 | use ssh
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| 15:04 | pretend you never heard of rsh
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| 15:04 | pretend it's not 187
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| 15:04 | 1987
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| 15:04 | <methril_work> ok, i'll talk with my boss :)
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| 15:04 | <johnny> or whenever rsh was invented
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| 15:04 | * johnny just made up a number | |
| 15:04 | <methril_work> johnny, thank you
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| 15:05 | <johnny> if you're concerned about speed issues, you can always disable X o ver ssh
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| 15:05 | and just use ssh for auth
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| 15:05 | via LDM_DIRECTX
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| 15:05 | or..
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| 15:05 | you could patch your ssh client and server to use the null cipher, or just switch the cipher to something a little less secure
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| 15:05 | <methril_work> it's what i'm using
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| 15:07 | <clark> @Johnny is there some written documentation or other helpfull places, where i could lern to set up gentoo & ltsp?
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| 15:08 | it's really annoying to having a system not starting up without real errormessages :(
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| 15:08 | <methril_work> johnny, one more question, if you don't use LDM the "watchdog" is not enabled (LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION)?
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| 15:09 | <johnny> please keep LIMIT_ONE_SESSON on
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| 15:09 | clark, browsing the sources of the ltsp trunk is pretty much all you need to do
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| 15:09 | the scripts are pretty simple
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| 15:09 | i'll be on hand to answer any questions you have
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| 15:09 | also knipwim
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| 15:10 | if he would get his butt in here :)
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| 15:10 | <clark> ok, so i have to do some more reading :)
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| 15:10 | Can you give me a hint, where to start in the sources?
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| 15:12 | <johnny> well, you can look for the directory under ltsp-build-client
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| 15:12 | under plugins
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| 15:12 | it's something like server/plugins/ltsp-build-client
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| 15:12 | and start with gentoo, and then look at the defaults
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| 15:13 | clark, the one missing feature of gentoo's ltsp support is integrating dracut , so we can have nbd mounts like ubuntu :)
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| 15:13 | hah
| |
| 15:13 | we should probably be able to steal it from fedora, now that fedora code is being updated again
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| 15:15 | <clark> argh, do you have the svn uri for me?
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| 15:15 | can't find it on the page...
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| 15:16 | <johnny> it's not svn
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| 15:16 | it's bzr
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| 15:16 | ltsp-trunk on launchpad
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| 15:17 | <clark> oh...
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| 15:18 | i thouzght you were using the sourceforge svn...
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| 15:24 | <johnny> no
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| 15:24 | that's just the wiki
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| 15:27 | <clark> Ok, i'm nearly giving it up, before i started.... wtf is the source? :)
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| 15:30 | <markit> alkisg: just for record, trying tftpd-hpa, works slow like hell too. Seems pxe related, since with gpxe works fine, at least this is what I suspect
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> markit: it could be the pxe stack (which you can't really do anything about), the pxelinux.0 version, or the tftp server
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| 15:32 | Since you tried replacing the tftp server, you may also want to try a newer pxelinux.0 - you can get one from debian, I've uploaded one at http://people.ubuntu.com/~alkisg/pxelinux.0
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| 15:32 | <markit> alkisg: how is that you know the ltsp details in such a depth?
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> (the ubuntu version is very old, some clients of mine didn't even boot with it)
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| 15:32 | markit: that's not LTSP :)
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| 15:33 | LTSP is just a glue around other components, for each of them you just read their man pages etc :)
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| 15:33 | <markit> alkisg: how is that you know the boot details in such a depth?
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Spend a lot of time on it, sure
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| 15:33 | <markit> you told me is just 3 years you play with GNU/Linux, or I misunderstood?
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> We had routers providing dhcp addresses here, and that scheme didn't fit with anything our on the net
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| 15:33 | So I had to even dig into the dhcp specs + the sources to find a good solution for us
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| 15:34 | <markit> that is where Free Software is great, no limit in knowledge
| |
| 15:34 | <alkisg> Yes, but I was a windows programmer before switching, so it wasn't so hard to understand the components. They were just too many... :(
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| 15:35 | <markit> alkisg: back to our conversation before I had to dinner, do you think that would be 2-3 "brench" of school solutions, some "main programs" that one can take and just fine tune, or "everyone is reinventing the wheel" is the only possible aproach
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| 15:35 | becouse everyone has incompatible different needs?
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> markit: sorry, I'm in the middle of writting a script + remote supporting dgroos, so maybe that chat could be postponed for another time... :)
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| 15:36 | <markit> I mean, the ones on the windows side don't have so many choices, why do we need many instead?
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| 15:36 | alkisg: oh, sure, forgive me
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| 15:36 | keep writing
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| 15:37 | and put in the comments "every bug is due to interruption by markit, blame him"
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 15:39 | But as I keep saying, you can direct questions in the channel and not to a specific person, it's usually better this way - others may have wiser things to say.
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| 15:39 | <markit> alkisg: I was interested in your opinion in particular, but sure :)
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| 15:47 | <clark> gn8@ all
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| 15:47 | <rwmarch_> I have Ubuntu 10.4 LTS and LTSP5 via alt CD
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| 15:47 | clark has quit IRC | |
| 15:49 | <rwmarch_> I have a test app that I want to provide a desktop launcher for. No problem using "gnome-terminal -e <cmd>" on the console.
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| 15:49 | But on the thin client, the app on;y flashes on the screen and vanishes.
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| 15:49 | What might I be doing wrong?
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| 16:04 | jhutchins_lt has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:06 | <markit> rwmarch_: I have kubuntu, but had a similar effect, let me dig about the notes I took
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| 16:07 | <rwmarch_> Thank you.
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| 16:09 | <markit> rwmarch_: mmm I remembered badly. Was an issue with a ruby program that worked fine as normal user, and just a black screen if run with kdesudo, sorry
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| 16:09 | <rwmarch_> OK.
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| 16:10 | <markit> rwmarch_: btw, if you open a console and run the program "manually" in the thin client, does it work?
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| 16:12 | <rwmarch_> Open a term, yes. Use alt-F2, no.
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| 16:15 | <johnny> if the script isn't waiting for input
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| 16:15 | <markit> no option like "keep the terminal open" or something like that in the desktop-link config?
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| 16:15 | <johnny> then it will disappear
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| 16:15 | there is
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| 16:15 | rwmarch, read the spec
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| 16:15 | pretty sure that's in there
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| 16:16 | either that, or an option of gnome-terminal profiles
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| 16:17 | <rwmarch_> When creating the launcher there is a choice that can be made -- application or apllication in terminal.
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| 16:18 | But has no effect.
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| 16:18 | <johnny> go read the spec
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| 16:18 | just to see what it means
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| 16:18 | <rwmarch_> By spec you mean man page?
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| 16:19 | Or such as http://library.gnome.org/users/user-guide/stable/launchers-properties
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| 16:24 | <johnny> i meant the freedesktop.org spec for desktop files
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| 16:40 | <markit> urgh, just about at the huge time I'm wasting for the school setup... On board pxe boots slow like hell, gpxe 1.0.0 boots fast as expected, gpxe 1.0.1 slow like hell :(
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| 16:41 | of course I've just installed "the latest, the greatest 1.0.1" and I have to redo the work. I'm lucky I had a 1.0.0 cdrom around and I tried it first
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| 16:41 | otherwise I would have concluded that the pc has server problems
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| 16:41 | but seems more a matter of luck than science :)
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| 16:54 | <markit> seems that 1.0.1 has introduced e1000 drivers... maybe before was going to run at 100Mbs, while now at 1Gbit, and this creates problems to the "ltsp part" (meaning the ltsp server, don't know that component is to "blame", I'm too ignorant for this)
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| 17:24 | <markit> btw, is a kde foult or a problem no one can solve that if I shutdown the server, clients are just "cut off" and not informed about the shutdown? (they have the screen blank and then SQUASHFS error)
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| 17:29 | <Lns> markit: if you think about how LTSP works, it makes sense that not much would work well if you shut down the server
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| 17:30 | squashfs is on the server that the clients feed from..if that goes away, it's like pulling the plug on the hard disk of a normal pc.
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| 17:31 | however if you're at the ldm prompt, sometimes you can reboot the server and it'll be ok (i've only done this successfully on NFS-based ltsp like debian, not NBD like ubuntu though - sure they act differently at that stage)
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| 17:32 | <markit> Lns: I'm not surprised that users are "cut off", just that there is not a "forced logout" bevore shutting down
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| 17:32 | <Lns> oh i see what you're saying
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> markit: by default, the ltsp server can't execute commands to the ltsp clients
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| 17:33 | <Lns> well, "ltsp" (the group of programs that comprise it) don't really "know" that there are a bunch of connected computers to it and doesn't have the logic to accomidate doing that. I'm sure a simple program/script could do this though
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> You can make such a script though if you want
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| 17:33 | * Lns waves to alkisg | |
| 17:33 | <alkisg> Hey Lns
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| 17:33 | <Lns> how you doing?
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> Fine, a lot of work, but fun work :)
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| 17:34 | <Lns> good! =)
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> U?
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| 17:34 | <markit> hi alkisg :) I've tried your pxelinux.0 but seem not to be read
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| 17:34 | <Lns> alkisg: not bad, doing work, not the fun kind though (windows stuff mostly these days :( )
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| 17:34 | <markit> I've switched back to the stock one
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| 17:35 | <alkisg> Lns: ugh, I'll have to use windows for the next 2 years too, for my phd... I know the feeling :(
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| 17:35 | <Lns> booo hehe
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| 17:35 | ends justify the means though im sure =)
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| 17:35 | <markit> "know your enemy" ;)
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| 17:48 | * Kyle__ sighs | |
| 17:49 | <Kyle__> alkisg: Why do you need windows for your phd?
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| 17:49 | <alkisg> Programming an edu app in delphi...
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| 17:51 | <Kyle__> alkisg: Oh, so it's like a psychology PhD?
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| 17:51 | alkisg: You're the experiemnt to see what 3 years of psychological abuse will produce.
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| 17:51 | <alkisg> Heheehehehheheheheh :D
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| 17:51 | Stop it, I'll spil vokda all over my laptop :D
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| 17:52 | <markit> alkisg: never tried lazarus project?
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> I did, I didn't like it much
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| 17:52 | <Kyle__> alkisg: I don't think the CS department here knows it, but the labs are really all Linux labs now. Yes, the students can, and usually do use windows...but those are in VMs.
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> gtk2 is not very usable yet
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| 17:53 | <markit> mm in this client at home I have the option to switch off power savings... at school I remember did not found them
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| 17:53 | I've to double check if there is some kde version discrepancy, or is just a matter of hw support for those features
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> Kyle__: great work man, do post some blog about all you did
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| 17:53 | <Kyle__> I need to. I really need to, as soon as everything here settles down.
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| 17:54 | alkisg: Seriously though, why is your PhD so delphi dependent? That's what your advisor uses? Your school? Dept?
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| 17:54 | <alkisg> I've been a delphi programmer for years, before starting linux/ltsp
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| 17:55 | So I've already programmed an edu app in it, and now I want to add more stuff + put some research on it...
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| 17:55 | (a programming language for kids + ide + flowcharts etc)
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| 17:55 | <Kyle__> Oh ok.
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| 17:56 | Not too bad then, especially if you know it. I guess.
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> I'd love to rewrite it in pygtk from scratch, but that wouldn't leave my any time for actual research
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| 17:56 | <Kyle__> You could use VirtualBox in seemless mode. It would let you have yoru delphi windows up and working, while really being in linux?
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> Now I hate just firing up windows + delphi in vm :(
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| 17:56 | Right, that's what I do
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| 17:56 | * Kyle__ nods | |
| 17:56 | <Kyle__> I dont' suppose you can recompile it linked against winelib?
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| 17:56 | <alkisg> (but irc gets in the way :P)
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| 17:57 | <markit> alkisg: that's why I suggested lazarus...
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| 17:57 | <Kyle__> markit: What is it?
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| 17:57 | <alkisg> Kyle__: I've packaged it into a nice binary .deb that depends on wine and even has file associations, so it runs fine on linux too
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| 17:57 | <markit> Kyle__: is a sort of Delphi clone for GNU/Linux
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| 17:57 | <Kyle__> Neat.
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| 17:57 | :) irc gets in the way of many people, school wise.
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| 17:58 | <markit> http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php
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| 18:00 | <Kyle__> markit: That's pretty interesting stuff...
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| 18:00 | * Kyle__ never was fond of pascal though. | |
| 18:01 | <markit> Kyle__: never used myself since I used components for db access (IBObject) that are not "ported" in lazarus, and like QT over gtk. But some days ago I just looked at the project again and seems has done giant steps
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| 18:02 | there also a qt version or something like that, AFAIU, but still can't port my legacy app
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| 18:02 | in any case, is a RAD tool, you can't find many in GNU/linux
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| 18:02 | * Kyle__ is fighting with Windows7 on virtualbox...almost perfect but there are some really pesky problems. | |
| 18:02 | <markit> (where people prefer "vi")
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| 18:03 | * Kyle__ nods. | |
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| 19:05 | <markit> Question that should not be kde related, but general desktop issue:
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| 19:05 | if I setup, for instance, the power saving features/params when I'm logged in a thin client
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| 19:05 | am I acting against server setup or thin client one?
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| 19:06 | 2am here and I'm so confused :(
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| 19:06 | because with ltsp I'm only "exporting" the display of something (KDE or gnome) that is run on the server
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| 19:06 | am I missing something?
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| 19:39 | <markit> sleep time bye
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| 22:34 | <rwmarch_> nick rwmarch
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